For The Love of Chaos
Come hang out with Andi as she discusses all things related to motherhood. Get ready for lots of laughs and real life! Andi is a mom to 6 wild kiddos (2 sets of twins) and 2 singletons. Juggling jobs, kids, marriage, life, and laundry is never boring in the Harper house!
For The Love of Chaos
Holy Spirit 101
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The Holy Spirit is often misunderstood. Many associate it with fear or the unknown, thinking of it as a ghost or something scary. But here's the truth: the Holy Spirit is not something to fear.
The Bible tells us that we aren’t given a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and self-discipline. This is a comforting reminder that the Holy Spirit is here to guide us, not frighten us.
We often forget that the Holy Spirit is a gift from God, meant to empower us in our daily lives. It’s not just about those big, dramatic moments; it’s about the everyday peace and guidance we receive.
As we dive deeper into this topic, remember: it’s okay to seek the Holy Spirit, even if it feels a little weird. The real weirdness lies in our resistance to accepting that power. Let's embrace it together!
In this episode, Andi has on special guest, India Goostree to dive into this deep topic. This episode will be a part of a series that will launch every friday.
Hey guys, it's Andy Harper. Welcome to my podcast. I'm so excited today because I'm launching a new series called Holy Spirit 101. And I have an amazing guest on with me today. This guest is so special to my heart. She's one of my very best friends and like a sister to me and my cousin. And we do ministry together. She's just an amazing person. And I'm so excited to have her on, Miss India Goose Tree. Hey India.
SPEAKER_01Hi guys. I'm glad to be here today. Thank you for inviting me, Indy. Yeah. Excited, and I'm excited to talk to you about one of my favorite things. So yes.
SPEAKER_00So Holy Spirit, India is my girl. That whenever we if if I want to talk the Holy Spirit, I call India and we can talk for days, can't we?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Anything like that, we can stay on the phone and give Holy Spirit stories all day.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So overall, this podcast series, I was kind of man, India had a conversation before this podcast started, before we hit record. And I just feel like it's so vital. The Holy Spirit is a topic that sometimes scares people away. Sometimes like they like there are different things. What are your thoughts on that, India? Like, what do you have to say about that? Like, why do you feel like people are like a little taboo about the Holy Spirit sometimes? Or they're a little iffy about it. Like whenever, you know, because you have your people that you could talk Holy Spirit with, and then there's some people that they just don't maybe understand it or they don't. What do you feel like it is?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think there is a lot of fear, but the Bible says that you know we're not given a spirit of fear. So I find it really sad when believers are afraid of talking about spiritual matters because uh the Bible directly says we're not supposed to have a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and self-discipline. And so um it breaks my heart, first of all. But then I also think that it goes back to things we've talked about with the literal name of the Holy Spirit, because a lot of times what you find is people have grown up in traditions that will say ghost. Um so it almost sounds they associate the Holy Spirit almost with this scary movement that we see in our culture of like paranoia. Absolutely, and they think of deliverance movies and they think of all of that. Now, I have no doubt the Holy Spirit is stronger than all of those other spirits. But for some reason, when you say Holy Ghost or uh associate it with this paranoia or the supernatural, people get very scared. And it is, and he is supernatural. But the thing I have to constantly remind myself of is the Holy Spirit is stronger and more powerful, and he's also good than any other spirit that we could ever deal with. And so the spiritual realm is real. But if we have the Holy Spirit power the Holy Spirit's power in us, we have no reason to fear. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00So let's dive in with what the Holy Spirit is, like who he is. He is God, he is Jesus, he's part of the Trinity, but it's him living within us. And I feel like that's sometimes people make it more complicated than it is, but it is such a di it's such a deep topic, you know what I mean? So uh it's the Father, the Son, it's part of the Trinity, but the Holy Spirit is a gift more than anything. It is a gift that whenever Jesus ascended to heaven, that he lives with us, that he's with us, there's a constant communication that we have with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit guides, it corrects, it convicts, but it does it with love. And so I think about like Old Testament times, and I think the Holy Spirit's been there the whole time, obviously, but as far as the the gift of the Spirit, like daily and continuously having the Holy Spirit within us and within our hearts with us all the time, it's a gift that I feel like sometimes we take for granted. Oh, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01I think that uh people have big experiences with God that they identify the Holy Spirit with, but we can easily forget that he is indwelling, like you said, he's an indwelling presence and he's with us all the time. So he is like our daily moment-by-moment piece. He's not just the big mountaintop moments that we think about whenever we think about um encounters with God. And so I think that is so important what you said, that he indwells with us, that he empowers us every day in those daily moments. And um, it's easy to forget that for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, I would say too, as far as who he is, like a lot of people think of him as like a force or an or even like an object almost.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's important to remember he is a person, like he's there's three persons at the Trinity, and he is a person, and he he absolutely reflects the image of God like just like we do, because he is God. And so when we relate with the Holy Spirit, we don't need to think of it as some like blowing ball that is growing people. And I think that people can even in the charismatic movement get a little bit too impersonal with the fact that the Holy Spirit is no person. Yeah, we're talking about a person. Oh, 100%. He he comes alongside us our as our paraclete is the original word to empower us all the time. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, amazing. And so, like some of the common misconceptions about the Holy Spirit is sometimes people, whenever we start talking about the Holy Spirit, it's either they don't understand it, and I feel or it's that they think that it's some people say, Well, it's it's weird, you know what I mean? Because they do see some maybe some TikToks on deliverance and all of these things. But if I could sit down with everybody today, it's that I wish, I pray that there would be a softening of hearts and that eyes would be open to see the Holy Spirit as a whole of who he is, and that all of those things are part of the Holy Spirit. You know, we have the gifts of the Spirit, we have the fruits of the Spirit, um, you know, the gifts of the Spirit, and that's why I feel like this is such a topic that I wanted to create a series over because it is so deep. So, like the next episode, episode two, we're gonna dive into the gifts of the spirit, then we're gonna talk about deliverance, and deliverance is a topic that is also like what are your thoughts on? I know your thoughts on deliverance because it's the same as mine, but it's also a topic that scares people away sometimes because it can seem scary, you know, but it but deliverance is also necessary, you know, especially in today's world. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I would say that something I think about whenever I think about the Holy Spirit being weird, people get weirded out by deliverance or even the concept of the Holy Spirit being weird. I always go back to I think people are weird, I think sin is weird. Yeah, and I think that when the Holy Spirit comes upon people, we can we can act weird when the Holy Spirit comes upon us. 100%. I mean, we do weird things all the time. Like I do weird things, my kids do weird things, and so naturally I think when when the most powerful force in the universe comes upon a human being, their reactions can be a little weird. And I don't think that that is bad necessarily. I think actually um our reaction being a little strange, like it's you look at all throughout the Bible, when the Holy Spirit, the presence of God will come upon people, people would pass out, people would fall like they were dead men, people would react in wild ways because it's He is the most powerful force in the universe. And so can you imagine not acting a little different when the most powerful force in the universe uh you encounter that for that person? I mean, yeah, and so I think that I always go back to the Holy Spirit's not weird, but people are weird and the reactions to him can be weird, and that's okay. And yes, um, I think we need to be a little bit as as the church, the church needs to be a little bit less worried about looking weird, yes, um, and a little more worried just about seeking the Holy Spirit. And if people are weird, then okay, at least we know that we sought the Holy Spirit and we left the results up to him. Absolutely. I just want to point out that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Jesus, yes. Um, a lot of people they disconnect the two, like the Trinity, the Godhead is one. So when we're talking about the Spirit of God, we're talking about the Spirit of Jesus Christ. And so it's really important for people to remember like um there isn't Holy Spirit churches and then Jesus churches. No, no, no. Like those the church is the church, and yes, Jesus said it is better for you that I go listen to my father so the spirit can come, just like you said earlier. Yes, and a lot of people forget they forget that it's better now that we all, yes, where I'm at, you where you are, can have the Holy Spirit come alongside us today. Now, as far as deliverance, um, I will say that out of all of the topics we could touch on for the Holy Spirit, I do think that deliverance is the one who pro that probably scares people the most. Yes. Because that's um enactments, yeah, reenactments on movies. They've seen you know, people shaking and convulsing and yeah, throwing up and all the things that but something to something that's important.
SPEAKER_00I didn't mean to to interrupt you at all. Something I just have to add to that, that that's not God. All of these things with the convuls, you know, that's something that's sometimes where I feel like people get the crawl, you know, the scary thing, like that's the enemy, that's the results of the enemy. The Holy Spirit comes to deliver them from those things, like from the from the demonic, uh, from possession, because it's real, it's a hundred percent real. I can write a whole book over it. And what's scarier to me than all of those things is people not realizing the reality that that it's that it's true, that it's real, that it's that it's not just in movies, it's in this generation today. For sure.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure, for sure. And I think too, um people forget that the flesh is hostile to the Holy Spirit. So when the Holy Spirit comes upon people, our flesh can react violently. Like I have seen um people who encounter the Holy Spirit and they get violent because they are resistant. And so I think sometimes those um responses of the body are actually our body resisting what the Holy Spirit is bringing upon us, his power, and his power stills and it brings peace. Yes. And so when people are acting violently, it's like you said, that is not the Holy Spirit, that's their reaction to the Holy Spirit. Yes, it could be a demonic presence, it could be um just their flesh, just straight up their flesh has sin that they're reacting violently. And so um that's a great point, Andy. Like I I think a lot of people need to hear that that yeah, some of the things you've seen happen when the Holy Spirit comes up on people, that's not actually the Lord doing that for them. It's their response andor the enemy's work in their life. And so, yeah, I I agree wholeheartedly.
SPEAKER_00And I think wholeheartedly that a tactic that the enemy uses is he wants people to feel like or to to think the illusion that it's that it's just in movies. Or you know what I mean? Like he he is loud and he is, I mean, more present than ever, but I feel like he that's a tactic that he uses is almost like a blindfold over people to make people believe that this stuff is not real when it is, you know, talking about deliverance and and the gifts of the spirit and all of these things. He wants people to almost be desensitized to it, to not be open to it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, and just to, yeah, like you said, a blindfold or pull the wool over my eyes. I don't want to see, like hiding in your eyes like a child. Like I don't want to know that the spiritual realm is real, because if the spiritual realm is real, then that means I have a responsibility to respond adequately to that belief. And I think for a lot of people, they don't want to focus on that and they uh they especially don't want to believe that it's real because if they believe it's real, there is a call to arms, right? There's a call to prayer, there's a call to the word, there's a deeper call to discern. And there's also a call to stewardship, to steward spiritual gifts and to steward our influence. And I think that when you know that everything that we see in the natural is connected to the spiritual, there is a higher level of accountability because it's it's harder to just walk through your day and not see, okay, when I have that grief in my spirit about something like you know, to heed that and to take the time to pray, to take the time to actually um respond to what we're sensing from the Holy Spirit. And so uh it takes more intentionality to walk by the spirit and to not gratify the flesh. And uh no one's perfect at it for sure. But I think when you're filled with the Holy Spirit and you are aware, you know, your perspective changes in everyday life.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent. And talking about like denominations and stuff like that, I feel like sometimes another misconception of the Holy Spirit is that just like we were talking about earlier, that the Holy Spirit is only like Holy Spirit churches or charismatic churches or Pentecostal churches or church of God of prophecy, you know, all of these things, then they think that the Holy Spirit is only present in those places. And I feel like that's also a tactic of the enemy. The Holy Spirit is for all of us. A hundred percent. It doesn't matter where what denomination you are. I just wish denominations would fall in the name of Jesus. You know what I mean? Like, um, because it the Holy Spirit is for all of us, it's not just for one background. And I grew up in a Pentecostal church, and I grew up with the I saw all of those things, just like you talked about, like the falling out, the speaking in tongues, the praying in tongues, and something that we're gonna talk about, remind me or uh remind me in a few minutes to talk about the difference between speaking in tongues and praying in tongues, because that's another misconception that I feel like people have. But the Holy Spirit, it does not matter a denomination, it does not matter the background that you grew up in. And maybe you have maybe you feel like you're a little iffy about it because of your background or because of how you grew up. So I grew up in a church where that was normal to me because I saw it all, and I'm so thankful for my background that I it doesn't matter if I'm what denomination that I identify as, that the Holy Spirit is for all of us, for every denomination. So will you explain a little bit about your background with the Holy Spirit and about your experience, like you know, being filled with the Holy Ghost?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I grew up um General Baptist and I appreciate my heritage. I still work for the General Baptist today. Um, I appreciate my heritage so much because they emphasize the word of God highly. They revere the word of God, and so I learned a lot about the word of God. Uh, I was actually a church planner's kid, which was a massive move of faith for me as a young child, even before I knew Christ. I was surrounded by a massive move of faith. Um, my father planted a church that was the first what you would call contemporary church in our entire movement. So he received a ton of backlash, but his heart um was to plant a church where people could worship freely because he saw a lot of religion and he saw a lot of um people who just very judgmental, religious matters. And so he wanted to plant a church where people could worship freely. And so the name of the church is Freedom Church. And so it's beautiful because I from a young age knew that there was more to God than comfortable Sunday services. Like I knew from a young age, like God is big and he does wild things. Like he does things like call men to quit their jobs to start churches, he does things like call men to completely walk out by faith and start brand new things that make sense to nobody else. And so I knew that God spoke directly to people. I knew that he was real, and I knew that he could use you mightily if you were surrendered to him. So I have a great appreciation for my heritage, and I watched the Holy Spirit birth our church from nothing. So I know I knew he was real, but I believe like what I missed out on in that tradition was the understanding that um, first of all, that gifts are real and active today.
SPEAKER_00Yes, they did not end with the church, yeah, or with the, you know, that they did not stop in the Bible, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. And I think like we knew that preaching was real, we knew that the gift of faith was real, but the minute we got into gifts of the spirit that didn't maybe fit in our comfortable boxes, those are not things that I was exposed to very much at all. Um, I had never really heard tongues, I didn't really uh hear people prophesy very often, um, if ever. So anything that involved once we stepped out of what we considered our normal, uh, I was very unexposed in those areas. So whenever I uh had been following Jesus, I got saved at 14 years old in the backseat of my parents' car, it was a massive moment of repentance for me. I had started reading the Bible and I just knew God had more for me. And so when I actually committed at the age of about 21 that I was gonna dive my whole life into the word of God and I just started reading the word of God, I was reading Acts 2 one day and I actually prayed. I said, like, God, if you have more for me in the spirit than what I currently am aware of or know, like I'm opening my heart to you. Yeah. And I want you to, I don't want to go my whole life not knowing if I have gifts that I don't know about yet. And so I was specifically at that moment reading about Acts 2 when this church was born and when they all spoke in tongues and the power of God came upon them and all these things. And I remember as I was saying that, just feeling the Spirit of God come upon me, I had chills all over my whole body. But then it was about six months later that I went to a church service and I had prayed in my prayer journal that morning, Lord, if I am called to preach the gospel, because he had been really, as I read the word, filling me. And I felt like I had these entire sermons inside of me, and it kind of scared me. And I was like, God, like if you're calling me to preach the gospel in my context where women rarely do that, and women are not often invited to do that. I was like, Yes, I need you to actually give me such a radical sign that I will never doubt that I was called to preach the gospel. And so it was that night, me and my husband, February 14th, 2017, went to a church service in Nashville and they were worshiping. And during worship, the fire of God hit me, and for four entire songs, I was praying in spirit. And it was my first experience with tongues. I did not know that there was a difference between praying in tongues and speaking in tongues. And thankfully the music was so loud that I didn't disturb anybody else or distract anybody else. Um, but I was crying, I was shaking, I was um filled with God to the point that it was overflowing out of me. And so that was my first like encounter that was so far outside of my religious box that there was no denying it was God. There was no denying that it was a confirmation because right after it happened, the pastor of that church got up on stage, he looked out my direction and he read Acts two, and he actually said, uh, some of you here still think that women are not called to the ministry, they're not called to preach, they're not called to walk in their anointing. And he was like, Acts 2.17 directs like directly addresses this. And so he confirmed that night my calling. So that was like one of the that was the night that my box of religion broke. And I was like, I what I thought I knew was actually this small and limited, and he is so much bigger than that, and so um, yeah, so that's like that's what really for me opened up my eyes to the spirit's power in a new way. Yeah, and it also like led me on this journey to discover what I believe about the Holy Spirit and who he is, and so a lot of the things we're talking about today, I wouldn't even talk about if it was not for that night. And I'm absolutely thankful that the Lord answered my prayer to reveal to me more who he is, you know.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Um, I just want to speak to like as we're talking, because I know we talked a little bit before, but my Bible is opened up to Acts 2 17. That's what my Bible's opened up to, and that's what is highlighted. And we didn't know we were gonna talk about that, but that's how the Holy Spirit works. Out of all the pages in the Bible, it's opened up in my lap, uh, Acts 2, 17. You know, in the last days, God says, I will pour out my spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. And your my your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams, and even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my spirit in those days and they will prophesy. And that's something else that I feel like is a spirit of religion is the the that women cannot preach and that women cannot do things in the kingdom. And I got, I, you know, you were there. I talked about it at teach them diligently, that sometimes we are more apt to tell our sons, oh, you can do all these things, but we've got to tell our daughters too, because they are gonna be used in the kingdom. They can be used just like men can as far, you know, they can preach and they can teach. And something that I had highlighted is that Paul often referred to women as his fellow workers, and that, you know, all of the things in the Bible that he talked about that women could do that. Even Jesus went to the women to to send the message out, you know, the woman at the well, you know, all of these things, the women, you know, after the crucifixion, you know, whenever he ascended from the tomb, whenever he was back on Sunday, and all of these things that Jesus is that he's there, that he that he sp speaks to women, that he uses women too, and that sometimes women feel like they can't be used, and that's another tactic of the enemy to make them feel like like isolate themselves or feel like they can't be used in the kingdom when God is calling them to do that. And the Holy Spirit is what will reveal that, just like he revealed it to you, and you said that you felt like you were having. Sermons downloaded in you, that was the Holy Spirit at work in you. And that the Holy Spirit will reveal things to us that only He can, that He knows us more intimately and deeply than anyone. So anytime that we feel like we are alone in this in this world, you know, where the enemy tries to isolate, where we live in hard times with mental health and with all of these things, and we feel like we're alone, the Holy Spirit is our best friend. And we just have to have that constant communication to know that we are never alone, that He sent a helper, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh, absolutely. I think too, like with people who uh maybe are angry at the idea of women being used, I heard an old pastor talk about how that we would disable half of the body of Christ if we told women not to share the gospel. And so I always go back to like, why would any man not want a woman to know the gospel and share it? Ultimately, like um, I think women, we walk by authority by being under authority. So I in no way, shape, or form advocate for women earsiping authority as Paul talks about. But at the same time, you look at Paul's letters and people really hone in on different pieces of Paul's writing, but they often leave out scriptures that say, When you pray and prophesy, cover your head. Like they ignore the fact that Paul actually does say that women do pray and prophesy in the setting of the church. And so I I find it interesting whenever people um attempt to prove something theologically that women uh are allowed to do when I'm sitting back thinking, if women are not supposed to do this, then why is the Spirit of God giving them that gift? Yes. How does that matter? How does that add up? And so I think it's important for us to, of course, rightly divide the word of truth and to be aware of what the Holy Spirit's doing. But I also think that some people are just so trapped in tradition that the idea of women doing anything outside of really motherhood um offends them. Uh but then I also see a lot of people who they lose track of the fact that if women are speaking out in public, right? Yeah, um, wouldn't you rather them use their gifts to build the church? Yes. If they're doing these things for the enemy, if there's doing the I I look at it when you give your heart to Christ, every gift you have, every call you have, everything he's given you in your hands, it's now his. And he actually gets to decide what to do with the vessel that he has anointed. And I think people who speak against the anointing need to be careful. Uh the Bible does not take it lightly when people are speaking against God's anointing. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Do not touch my anointed. And so that is what scripture is that?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Oh, it's in the Old Testament. It's whenever um it's talking about salt. So yeah, it's yeah, important.
SPEAKER_00Um, so talking about the the tongues, and I know we're gonna dive more into that whenever we talk about the the gifts of the spirit, and that's a whole other episode, but a common misconception of speaking in tongues and praying in tongues, it's two, it's two different things. Um, speaking in tongues is whenever you are speaking, you know, loudly in a congregation of people, and where, you know, a lot of times like my experience with praying in tongues is it didn't happen until uh 2022. And even though I grew up in a in a Pentecostal background and I I was open to all of those things, I that never happened to me. And I can remember feeling like as a child that there was this checklist. Like I was I was a little bit scared. Uh-oh, and that's also like a little bit religious, you know. I was scared as a kid sometimes too, because there was a lot of fire and brimstone preaching, but I was, I would think in my mind that I had to be. There was, I remember this poster where it was like you have to be saved. And it wasn't, they weren't saying that you had to do all those things, but I that was me in my mind thinking that I had to do all these things, saved, sanctified, uh, or saved, baptized, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost. And I was thinking, oh gosh, I'm not the Holy Ghost, like, you know, like I saw people being filled with the Holy Ghost, I saw them being, you know, falling out, I saw them, you know, speaking in tongues and praying in tongues, but I didn't even understand the difference in speaking in tongues and praying in tongues. And then if you have conversations with other believers about it, I feel like the one question that if you mention tongues that everybody asks is, was there an interpreter? And speaking in tongues is within a congregation, and I went to a here's the thing about speaking in tongues. I went to uh an event several years ago, and it was this large uh women's conference, or not a women's conference, a marriage conference, and it was a really spirit-moved uh it was a very spirit-moving service, and there was a man that spoke in tongues, but here's the thing about the Holy Spirit, whenever somebody speaks in tongues, I have heard in sermons growing up, like in church services, we would be at church all the time, and sometimes those services would last till you know late, late into the night. And uh when somebody speaks in tongues, what I've experienced is that you can hear pin drops. I don't know what it is. There'll be babies crying, and then if somebody is speaking in tongues and speaking a message, there was this lady that I went to church with growing up that was the most anointed woman that I've ever seen, and uh her name was Sister Dolly, and she would speak in tongues, but whenever she would, you could hear a pin drop. I mean, you know what I mean? It was silence, but then somebody else would interpret what she was saying, you know, later on, and it maybe it was five minutes later, whatever it was, like the message that God had for his people. But whenever you are praying in tongues, you don't have to have an interpreter. That is your prayer language between you and God. And you don't know what you're saying, but the spirit, that's the spirit interceding for you. And that's something that I did not understand as I would I would get caught up in trying to figure out the difference of what it was because when I was filled with the Holy Ghost in 2022, um that night it happened at a little bitty church in the middle of the night. I mean, similar to what you're saying, you know, you weren't really going, I wasn't seeking it, honestly. I was at a very low point in my life. You know exactly what I'm talking about. I was at the lowest that I've ever been, and God knew that I needed it. And I was experiencing a whole lot of warfare in my life. Um my marriage was on the rocks, I was going through a separation. And God knew that I desperately needed him, and I was at rock bottom, okay? And he knew that I needed to be filled with the spirit more than I than I realized it. Not that I wasn't open to it, but when it happened to me, it wasn't that I was saying, Lord, help me to pray in tongues or speak in tongues or whatever it was. He did it for me. You know what I mean? He he knew that I needed that infilling of the Holy Spirit. But whenever I saw it happening at first with my with me, I was like, I was white as a sheet. I thought I was gonna pass it out. You know what I mean? It wasn't that I was fearful, but it was like, what is going on? You know what I mean? Because you don't understand. You've I've seen it, you grow up seeing it, but until you experience it, it's something totally different. But it's a gift. Whenever you are able to pray in the spirit, and you don't ever know when that's happening, but a lot of times it's when spiritual warfare is going on for me. Like if there's something spiritual related, that is a battle because the enemy does not understand that language. We don't even understand that language, but the one who does is listening to us. Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say like there is a massive misconception about that because people who've not ever experienced tongues or been around it, they lump all of those different types of tongues into the same category together into one category. Essentially, yes, in the church, and that is so heartbreaking just because um that's why we have so many different denominations, is because you have cessationist theology that says the works of God essentially ended, and then you have Pentecostal tradition that says if you haven't prayed in tongues, you're you may not even be able to there are such extremes about this topic, and you know I think that that is so sad to me because what it does is it actually causes people to isolate themselves from the theology. And so I all that to say, uh I want to point out 1 Corinthians 14 is the primary place I would point people to about tongues, because specifically it says that he Paul is writing praise in tongues more than any of the people he's writing to. And he specifically says praise. And I think that's really important because it tells us that if Paul, the leader of you know, the Gentile New Testament church, if he felt led to pray in tongues more than anyone else, it should speak to us that uh it's a crucial gift. Yes, and uh I might be called the least of the gifts according to scripture. But it is a crucial gift, and God does not give bad gifts. And so I always encourage people like you may not want to seek that gift, but you better be seeking the giver. And he has to actually choose bad gifts. He gets to choose, yeah. Yeah, it's his it's they're his gifts. And so I say a lot to say, like uh in 1 Corinthians 14, he talks about um that you know, tongues edifies the person. That word edify, I've shared this with you before, it means to build up to it's a construction term for building up. Um so when we're praying in tongues, we're building up our spirit in preparation for service, in preparation for spiritual warfare, in preparation for what God wants us to do. And then he goes on to talk about prophecy building the church, and then he which is so important, and then he says that when in the service someone speaks, keyword speak, not pray, speaks in tongues, there should be an interpreter. Yes. And so I feel like that, you know, an example I've heard of this from different teachers is there was a girl um who was in China during the One Child Wall, and she was actually in a service and began to speak in tongues over and over the same phrase, the same phrase. And she was um essentially speaking a Bible verse. It says, Rachel weeps for her children, for they are no more. And so she was interceding in the spirit over these children that were being killed due to this one child ball. And it wasn't long after that that that one child law changed. And so we a lot of times I think um she did not even know that what she was speaking out what in Chinese was that verse. So it was a it was an speaker. So, yes, like tongues can be prayer, tongues can be speaking in a foreign language where you actually do need an interpreter to know what you're saying. Yes, it can be many different forms, and so I just encourage people like don't grieve the Holy Spirit by pushing away his gifts out of fear, right? That goes back to the beginning of our conversation. Like when we are operating from a place of fear instead of faith, we grieve the Holy Spirit. Yes, ultimately, God is drawn to our faith. Like, yeah, when we have faith, right, it can move mountains, even if it's a little. And so I pray today that whoever is listening to our conversation would receive a mustard seed of faith about this topic. That if you've never opened your heart like I did, to say, God, if I have any of these gifts and I have not opened my heart fully to you, like please reveal that to me. And he will I can grow. Yeah, and he will. He is faithful to do it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it just we need an open mind and a surrendered heart. Um, right. And sometimes things of the world, and whether it be tradition or a spirit of religion or our backgrounds, you know, how we grew up, sometimes it turns us off to that, or like we desensitize ourselves. And God wants us to have an open heart and an open mind when it comes to these topics because it's not a denominational thing, it's not a church thing, and it didn't die in the Bible. All of those gifts are still alive and active today, but there's not enough of us utilizing them, you know, because the Holy Spirit is for everybody, it's for everybody, and there is no junior Holy Spirit. Uh, we went to the Belonging Co. Um, the Belonging Co. You know, back in September in Nashville, which is amazing, incredible. But there was a sign there that I loved, and it was in their kids area, and it says there is no junior Holy Spirit, that it's also for kids, you know, your that your kids um it's for them too. You know, that it's not just you don't have to be a certain age, you don't have to be a certain gender, you don't have to be a certain denomination. The Holy Spirit is for all of us.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yeah. Says that in Acts 17 or 2.17, it talks about he poured out his spirit on male and female and they shall prophesy. Yes. And so I think even with our children, it also references in Acts 7 in Acts 2.17 about your young men and your old men. So yeah, all demographics in that scripture of male and female servants, actually, is what some translations say. So even thinking like when I think about Holy Spirit, I think he is the one who unifies all generations, all um races, yes, gender. He comes in and he makes a seat at the table for every single person to be filled and to eat of his goodness and his kindness and his love and his fruits. And it's incredible to me because whenever you think about there being no junior Holy Spirit, like that changes your theology of how you teach your kids. Um I think we a lot of times think that kids are too young to understand, but I actually think sometimes kids understand better than we do. Yeah and we have to actually give them the opportunity to exercise their spiritual gifts from a young age. Um, something I love about our youth ministry is that our youth pastor allows the youth to begin to preach if they feel called to preach and gives them the opportunity to do so.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, I love that our kids' ministry at our church, like they take the time to allow the kids to pray over each other. And so there's like this very important remembrance that every single person, like all flesh is grass, but all flesh can be filled with the Holy Spirit. Like as long as they believe in the blood of Jesus and his sacrifice, like we have to be careful not to box things in because when we do, we get God has a way of coming in and blowing our boxes. He's like, I don't want you to think you have me figured out, like I'm bigger than your understanding and your finite mind. And so um, yeah, I think I think it's so important for us as moms and as women and even men as fathers to remember that not only do our parents have the opportunity to walk by the spirit, but our children do too. Yes, so we don't need to forget that.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, there's power in that. Um, yeah. When you were talking about the the girl in China, it brought a story to my mind, you know, Kevin Wallace, he's a pastor out of Cleveland. Um, him and Devin Wallace, I love listening to them. But they're in Cleveland, Chattanooga area, Tennessee. But he preached a sermon one time about being at a revival, and I think he was with his brother-in-law, and he said that his brother-in-law was like country as they come. And he said that like he was at the altar, and this was like at a I don't know if it was in, it was at somewhere where there was like Indian tribes there. I don't know what area that they were at, but he started he went to the altar and was praying for like just he was filled with the Holy Ghost, and he started pre like speaking in Choctaw, like India, like an Indian language, like he was like like scripture and and a message from God in Choctaw. And people, this man came up to him and said, We did not know that he knew Choctaw or whatever this you know language was, and he said, He knows that's the Holy Spirit, but they could understand what he was saying. So like God sent him there, he said he doesn't know any language except for country bumpkin, you know, like he's as country as they come, he does not know that. But that's the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, we cannot put limits on what the Holy Spirit can do. There is no limits, no limitations, you can't put them in a box.
SPEAKER_01We we could go on about stories all day of the spirit doing things. Um, I think that something I I would honestly say is like after uh my encounter that I had, where the Holy Spirit truly um, I believe in a lot of ways, anointed me for service. I believe I already had the indwelling Holy Spirit that was walking with me, but I believe in that moment he anointed me for preaching and for service and for um his work. But I think that ultimately um a lot of people don't realize that when the Holy Spirit begins to move in you, he not only does tongues, like we've talked about, but like you just mentioned, it goes even further than that. Visions, dreams like Acts 2 talks about like after, I'm sure you could speak to this, but like after that encounter with God, I started to have very vivid dreams. Yes, I started to have encounters with him where I was like, that has to be the spirit.
SPEAKER_00Because in a vision, especially when you don't, when you've never encountered one, you know, the way that I explain it is it's almost like a movie that's being played, a movie you've never seen before. Like, you know, like the previews of a movie, but you're still awake. You know what I mean? And then dreams, those vivid dreams that you know aren't just coincidence. And a lot of times when you have those vivid dreams, and you know, sometimes your kids, I've I've had my kids come to me. I had Dax come to me about a dream specifically this week that was a very vivid dream that he dreamed about the rapture. And he'll and that's he's this isn't the first time that he's had dreams like that, and that's why I was emphasizing that there is no junior Holy Spirit, but that's how the Holy Spirit works and moves in ways that we can't comprehend and understand, but just being open to it, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely, yeah. Amen. I I think that ultimately um it does start with just a willing heart to see God. And I think that um something I've seen in the charismatic movement that can become dangerous is when, and this is really in Pentecostalism, what can become dangerous is when people are seeking the gifts more than the giver. Yes. Like in the sense of I'm against people putting others under pressure to perform because we don't have anything to prove, right? Yeah, yeah. But when the gifts and when the signs and when the wonders happen in in effect, because of the fact that we're seeking God, that is the most miraculous to me encounters we're gonna have in this side of heaven. Like to see the spirit of God move the kingdom of God through us. Um, and I think that I never want people out of fear to resist that. You know, the Bible says do not resist the Holy Spirit of God. Yeah. And so, like you said, when you open your heart to him and when you open your heart to whatever he wants to do, yeah, um, and really lay down your fear at the altar. Yeah, uh just hold you just basically need to put like your seatbelt on, your seatbelt's survival, but he's about to take you like on a wild ride. Yes, on a wild ride.
SPEAKER_00And it can get weird, it's okay. It's okay. We're all weird sometimes, just like you said. Have you ever been at a store? And like I know that I was at a sporting goods store buying something for one of the kids, a new baseball bat or something. I was so overwhelmed and so uh, so like one of those days where I just had brain fog, you know, and like I was checking out and um they were like, Here's your change. And I was thinking, I said, Thank you, love you, bye. And Cozy looked at me, she said, Did you just say I love you? And I just walked out the door and I was like, That was why did I do that? You know what I mean? We all do weird things sometimes, you know? So that's just that's okay. We have to be open to the whatever that looks like for us and being open to whatever, that's where I feel like it's dying to yourself. And you know, a prayer that I pray all the time is Lord, empty me of myself and make me more like you, and whatever that looks like, whatever, whatever you want to do, help me to be a vessel, a willing vessel for you. So however you want to use me, and just because you haven't spoken in tongues or prayed in tongues, or just because you haven't prophesied, or just because you have not haven't, and just because you haven't yet prophesied or any anything like that does not mean that you don't you aren't filled with the Holy Spirit. Um, it just means that those are the gifts that come from that. I remember working in a church camp um several years ago, and there was a man in there that had done ministry his whole life, and as we were going around talking about our testimonies, because they had like these staff meetings among the the camp staff, and I watched his eyes fall, like as everybody else was sharing their testimonies, and he said, But I've not yet been filled with the Holy Ghost, like I've been seeking it my whole life and I'm not yet been filled. And you know, I looked at him and I was like, that doesn't mean that you don't have the Holy Ghost, just because you haven't spoken in tongues or prayed in tongues or these things, because sometimes we count ourselves out, you know, or especially if you grow up in that kind of background and you feel like if those things haven't happened to you, that you don't have the Holy Ghost, and that's not true either. That's another misconception.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I think I will speak to that and say that the primary sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit is bearing spiritual fruit and remittance and also um boldness. So, what you see a lot in the New Testament is people go from being these weak, feeble-minded um belief system to really having a fortified conviction about who Jesus is. And not only having that fortified conviction, but speaking it out. You know, even in Romans it says if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, then you will be saved. And I think the confessing with your mouth is really important because you're never gonna see someone who is truly encountered by the Holy Spirit who keeps that to themselves. Yes, absolutely. There is gonna be a Outward response. There's gonna be an outward sign, whether that's them verbally saying, I know Jesus now, I've repented, or them speaking in tongues. It can be either or, but ultimately, like salvation is about our what what do we believe in our heart about Jesus? And I think that that's what invites the Holy Spirit in is when we repent, we believe we truly know him. And when we happen to encounter um greater gifts or greater things than what we knew before, it's important to keep our seatbelt on, meaning uh, yes, this car is moving fast. Yes, the spirit has poured out, yes. Wow, he's incredible. But also like making sure we're in the word and that we are aligning every experience we have with the spirit's power and with and with what the word of God says. And I bring that up because this idea that you are only saved if you speak in tongues isn't even biblical.
SPEAKER_00No, it's not. Um and so I think there's not a checklist either. Like just like I talked about, like whenever I was little and I had this conception of, you know, you have to have all these things marked off. It's about the relationship. It's not there. Throw the to-do list, throw, throw the checklist away, you know. Like I said, even adults sometimes feel like, well, I have to do this, I have to do that. Sanctification comes with walking with the Holy Spirit. It's not a process that's gonna ever be done. You know, just like parenting, we're never gonna be masters of parenting. We're never gonna be masters, I know that I'm not, of of getting it all right. I have to apologize all the time for getting it wrong. Sanctification naturally comes when we are walking with the Holy Spirit. When he's with us and he's moving in our hearts, he convicts us. You know, that's when sanctification comes. It's not a one-time thing that we're gonna check off. Yeah, absolutely. And the Holy Spirit isn't a one-time thing. You know, you can get filled more than once.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. The Holy Spirit, that's what I was about to go back to, is what we talked about earlier, him being our paraclete, which means like coming alongside this journey. Like when we get saved, we begin walking with God. We walk by the power of the Holy Spirit, and it is this journey we go on. And it's just like me saying, I got saved and encountered the Holy Spirit at 14, but I didn't actually have an experience speaking in tongues until I was 22. Yes. I think like they're praying in tongues. But I think it's important to remember like we're all on a journey, and um, our faith journey is gonna be filled with the Holy Spirit. And it might be for some people that they they you know have a mountaintop experience at the very beginning where they're filled with the Holy Ghost and they pray in tongues, and the very first time they encounter Jesus, like it's just like you know, this massive experience. And then for other people, it's like they chose to follow Jesus, they got baptized, and then they didn't even know that they had gifts for five or ten years any longer. Yeah, and so I think it's it's really important, like we talked about earlier, to be careful about getting boxed into denominations or ideologies that don't account for really the wonder of God. Like God is so wondrous, he's so much bigger than what we can understand and the way he works and moves. Um, I love in John 3 where Jesus says to Nicodemus, a religious leader, who's trying to figure out Jesus. He's like, Okay, but what are you doing? Like I can't figure you out, you know? Yeah, yes, yeah. Like, what are you doing? Yeah. We know that you're from God, but why are you here? Yeah, what are you doing? And like he's frustrated, this religious leader trying to ask these questions, and he's genuinely curious, but you can sense like there's been tension building, yeah, you know, and then they lose around. He begins to ask him these questions, and Jesus in his wisdom says, the wind blows where it wishes, and you don't know where it came from or where it's going. So it is with the spirit. And I feel like that's what I would want to speak to every religious leader. What Jesus said is the Holy Spirit is like the wind. I mean, he moves the way he wants to in people's lives. And yeah, it could be that um, you know, he gives one this gift or this another, but we can't we have to be so careful about not glorifying the gifts above the giver. Yes, absolutely. Because a lot of denominations do that, and I feel like it's really important also to celebrate every step of the Holy Spirit, yeah. Salvation, baptism in water, yeah. Um, moving, celebrating when someone preaches their first sermon, celebrating when someone joins a small group, like the baby steps are just as important as the massive moments, you know. And so learning to celebrate just like we do our own children, like when my son takes his first steps, like yay, like you might have been really wobbly and really weird, yeah, whatever you want to say, but like celebrating, you know, when the spirit moves in people's lives, even if it is uh different than our timeline, which we can't compare our walk with somebody else's walk, like that's where comparison, like, well, you know, just like we were saying, oh, well, I haven't done this or I haven't done that, or we can't put it in a box, and we can't compare our relationship and our walk with the Holy Spirit with somebody else's walk with the Holy Spirit because everybody has different gifts.
SPEAKER_00And yes, if you pray about a gift like God may give you that gift, but like we all operate in different gifts, and that's where it comes together and the kingdom is edified because of it, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I always like think about the word testimony and how it essentially means do it again. Yes, and I go back to the fact that if you hear uh someone else's testimony and maybe you're even jealous of it, you know, yeah. Um let's just be honest, and you're kind of like, well, cool for you, you know. Like but I think that it goes back to believing in your heart instead of having that jealous moment of God is holding out on me, but instead switching that belief to if he can do it for her, he can do it for me. And I believe that people hear me say, like, I am nothing, you are nothing. Like we are nothing in the sense of we did nothing to earn anything that the Lord has done in our life. In fact, it says he uses the weak to shame the strong. And so I think that I would just encourage people to remember when they hear these testimonies during this entire series you're gonna do, like any testimony that you hear, believe that he can do it for you too. In fact, believe that not only can he do it for you, but he can do it personalized to you, like he can do it in a way that would mean more to you than it even did to the other person. Yes, on a more intimate level. That's yes, and that's the beauty is getting to walk in intimacy with God and and and believing wholeheartedly that if he's that intimate with another human, he can be that intimate with me. Absolutely and trusting in that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um this is gonna be such an anointed series, and I would love I want you to come back on. Are you open to that? Like I said, me and India can have an entire podcast over the Holy Spirit because we can talk about it for days with stories and sharing and um but one last question, like one last thing that I want to touch on, and then we will wrap up. Um and that God is doing something. Like I feel the Holy Spirit all over this. Like I seriously, I could cry. Um but one last thing is that I wrote down in my notes is how do we lean into it? Like we just have to ask. You know, because a lot of times people say, you know, well, how do I have that? How do I how do I utilize the Holy Spirit? How do invite him in? Start your morning off saying, Holy Spirit, what do you want to reveal to me? You know, sometimes it's open open up the Bible and let God speak because he will speak through his word. You know, that's that's one thing. But like, what else do you have to say about like if somebody wants to have that closeness, if they want to grow closer to the Holy Spirit? What would you say to that?
SPEAKER_01I think it just all goes back to seeking him. You know, he says, seek me and you'll find me when you seek me with all of your heart. And I remember during the season when I was leading up to that radical moment with God where he confirmed my calling, I had actually given up social media, I had given up all entertainment, and I had started reading the word of God as a hobby. Like it literally, I turned the word of God not only into a morning devotional, but I started reading it all the time. Yeah. And I would just say that seeking him is how we find him. Like you actually you can't short circuit the process, right? And so um, one thing about God, I know as as a human, I like to be pursued. It's kind of like when you're dating and you're pursuing someone because you love them and you want to pursue them. Like the same thing is true for the Lord. I believe we're made in his image. He wants to be pursued by us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And when we seek him and we pursue him, we will find him. And we won't just find um our version of what we thought he was, we'll find him in fullness of who he is, and so much more than what we thought. And so my advice would be like, like you said, ask him in prayer. That takes faith just to pray and open your mouth. Yeah. Because you're saying you believe that he's listening. But then also seeking him in his word. Yeah. Like I think a lot of people forget that the word of God is living and active, and the Holy Spirit breathes on the word of God. And so when we fill our lives with the word, I wholehearted, and then we respond to the word of God in obedience. That's us actually becoming living flesh by the whole power of the Holy Spirit, like the flesh of Jesus on the earth, the body of Christ. And so I think it's really important for us to remember that just to seek him, like you said, pray, get in the word, and respond to it. Don't just make it um a religious checklist, like you said, yeah. But actually seek him with your whole being, your whole heart, and put into action the knowledge he's already given you. And um, I heard someone say, like, we shouldn't we should seek to live up to the knowledge we have attained.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so that's good. Uh I think a lot of people know a lot, but like, what are you living out day to day?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So that sounds great. Well, I'm so excited to dive in more. Um, the next episode over this, uh, this is gonna be an entire series, but um I'm gonna try to release it on Fridays. But the next episode is gonna be over spiritual gifts. Then we're gonna dive into deliverance and um we're gonna talk about the fruits of the spirit and all that go along with that. And I just hope and pray that I feel like there's gonna be a lot of people thirsty for this and that that they're gonna be seeking. And will you close us out in prayer before we end this episode, Andy? I know that I started out praying at the beginning um before we started recording, but would you close us out in prayer?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Spirit of God, we just thank you. We thank you for being with us on this podcast. We thank you for being with every person, God, that is gonna hear our words. Holy Spirit, we ask you to fill every person, God, that is listening to this podcast. Fill them with wonder, fill them with power, fill them with your spirit, Lord.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01We thank you, Holy Spirit, that you have the power to set us free. So I pray right now that you set every person free from the bondage of fear and religion. Yes, and I pray, Lord, that their hearts be opened by the name of Jesus, the blood of Jesus, for the power of God and the glory of the church. And we thank you, Jesus, for what you're gonna do. I ask you to anoint Andy for every episode. God, that people would grow closer to you and know you personally, personally and intimately in a new way. I thank you, God, that you're always doing a new thing. I pray you do new things in the hearts of every believer that listen to this word. And I thank you, Jesus, for Andy. I thank you for her obedience, God. I thank you, God, that she seeks you and that she loves you. And I just pray for my sister to be just completely filled with you, comforted by you, God, and anointed to be used in a powerful way in your kingdom continually. In Jesus' name we pray.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. This was an amazing episode. It's always, I always love our conversations. And usually those conversations are just us, you know, randomly on the phone or you know, while our kids are playing. But I've loved having you on. So thank you so much, India, for sharing your heart and coming on. And I hope to I hope for you to be back.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for having me. I love you and over this podcast and every person listening. You have a good rest of your day.
SPEAKER_00Sister, you too. Bye, India, India. So, y'all, I hope that y'all will tune in next week. It's gonna be an incredible episode. Um, we're gonna share testimonies, we're gonna share stories, uh all about all of these topics. And I am not, I did not go to seminary school. Okay. I I don't I want to get that first straight. I've just had an experience with the Holy Spirit and I have a thirst for him. And I want more people to know about the Holy Spirit. And so I just hope that y'all tune in next week and that God speaks to you through this series. Um, I hope y'all have an incredible week. And I want to know your questions. If you guys have any questions about anything that we talked about, uh in in our clips and in the hooks that I post and in the episode itself, shoot me a message, shoot India a message, and we would be happy to answer any of your questions. I hope y'all have an incredible week. Love y'all. See y'all next time.