The Dave Burgess Show
The New York Times Best Selling author of Teach Like a Pirate, Dave Burgess, leads rich conversations with fascinating guests on wide-ranging topics such as education, entrepreneurship, principles of success, mindset, fitness, wellness, and, most importantly, topics that will inspire, empower, and uplift YOU.
The Dave Burgess Show
67: From Punk Rock to Public Relations w/ Dr. Renae Bryant
Dr. Renae Bryant joins me for a fun chat about the importance of branding even in the world of education, her former life as lead singer in a punk rock band, the DIY attitude, connecting via professional organizatins and more!
She is the coauthor of The Ed Branding Book: How to Build Educational Leadership with Social Influence and the host of the Your Story Matters Podcast.
Connect with Renae:
Instagram: @drrenaebryant
Website: https://www.drrenaebryant.com/
And most importantly, cover topics that will empower, inspire, and uplift. Let's go. I have a special guest and I would like to introduce her to you. This is Renee Bryant. Renee is an award-winning educator of over 20 years. She works collaboratively with scholars, staff, families, and community to co-create systems and processes to increase student access, opportunity, equity, and success. She is the founder and facilitator of the Leadership Book Chat. By the way, thank you, Renee, for I know you've done at least two of our books. She Leads, which is a wonderful book about education, women and educational leadership, and lead with collaboration. Another one of our titles. So I really appreciate the DBC Love in the Leadership Book Chat. The 2019 AXA Valuing Diversity Administrator of the Year. She's won two Women of Distinction Awards. She's the 2024 Cal Association for Bilingual Education District Administrator of the Year. She is also the 2024 Leading Wall Female Icon National Award winner. She's an adjunct professor at Cal State Fullerton in Laverne, host of the Your School Matters Podcast, and also co-author with Lynette White of the Ed Branding book, How to Build Educational Leadership with Social Influence. Welcome to the show, Renee.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, thank you so much. Yes, it's a pleasure to be here. And I wouldn't be here without you. So I just want to take a moment right from the get to thank you, Dave, for everything you do for educators. And by doing so much for these authors like myself to empower us. You're indirectly, as you know, touching so many scholars' lives, staff, colleagues, families, and community. Like I say, like my purposes. So I just want to really thank you for everything you do for us. And thank you for giving Lynette and I an opportunity and believing in us. And it's changed our lives. So you are a traject trajectory changer for sure. I know that you know that. Probably so many other authors have told you that. So just thank you for everything you do, and thank you for providing a little space to have me on your podcast. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. It's my pleasure not only to have you on, but to have you a part of the DBC Inc. family. And uh we love the work that you do. So happy to help amplify that. And uh so the first thing that I wanted to ask you, and it's kind of like this is the uh beginning of it all, in a sense. And this is something that we discussed when I was on your ed branding podcast as well. And uh there's kind of this a lot of people have this negative connotation around the word branding, and like, why would why would I, as a teacher or an administrator or a district or wherever, like be interested in branding? Isn't that something that's a part of sales and marketing? Why are you talking to me as an as an educator about that? So when you think about this word branding, I know you do not have that negative connotation, nor do I, by the way. And so when you think of the term brand, what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I think that Jeff Bezos quote, we have it in our book. A lot of people include it when they talk about branding, this idea. It is what people say about you when you're not in the room. So whether we like it or not, um, there is a brand associated with our sites, with our classrooms, with our teaching, uh, with our districts, with our universities. Um, so it's really important that we get ahead of it, right? So we can help to form that narrative by deciding what is my personal brand. So, you know, for me, you know, people told me always, oh, you're such a connector. So I said, you know, I'm gonna go with what they tell me. I am a connector and I can live with that. And I that is a part of my brand is connecting people. And, you know, your brand definitely, we know, is teach like a pirate, high energy. So amplifying people's voices, empowering people. Those are all the things I think of when I think of you. That is your brand, and you are very intentional about your brand. Uh, obviously, because you own a publishing company, you're putting out books, but for the everyone else that's in the classroom, for parents, for staff members, we all are a part of either a classroom or an organization, whether it's a site or a district, and really thinking intentionally, what do we want people to say about us? And how can we put that out there to help them be able to do that? How can we empower them to do that? And so I think for Lynette, you know, she was a public information officer. So that's what she lived daily. And for me, you know, coming from the arts and then going into education, so important uh all the time. When I was a classroom teacher, I had the Miss Bryant's class, you know, Twitter account, you know, then uh, you know, taking over uh site accounts uh as a site leader, and then being at the district level and having a department and having department accounts on social media. It was really important that I told that story. And that helped the district, it helped the scholars, it helped the families and unintentionally, that wasn't the big purpose, but it helped me too, uh, personally and professionally. So I think it's really important that people embrace branding. You can call it something else if you if that makes you feel better, but really embracing branding and what it can do to, and I think this is how people that have a hard time with it maybe can think about it is by embracing branding, how can that help your scholars? How can that help your families? How can that help your colleagues, your site, and your organization overall? And when we start thinking, because a lot of us like to think of helping other people, if we think about it that way, it can help us to maybe embrace it a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And this is something that I discussed when I came on the show, this idea that for me, well, first of all, I also love like Seth Godin, he says that uh your brand is your promise, right? This is like what people can expect from you. This is like what you're you're promising the world, but also it's how it's how the world, how the outside world perceives you. And so you will be perceived by the world. So let's let's like let's just like get that out of the way now. Like you're not going to not have a brand because if a brand is the way you're perceived by the world, you will be perceived, so you will, in fact, have people will have thoughts about you, and you can either decide that you're gonna let the the outside world create that narrative about you, or you can be more intentional and proactive in creating that narrative about yourself and your school and your district, your organization, business, whatever it might be, right? And so it's not really doing something that's not already happening, it's just taking control of the process and understanding that this is something that like I hey, I would like to have a say in how I am seen by the world. And I would like it, and when I work in a school system, I want that school system. Facebook, just go on to Facebook sometime. People are talking about your school, people are talking about your district, people are talking about your leadership. And you can either be a part of that conversation or you can abdicate responsibility for it and let them decide that what that narrative is. I don't think we want that.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. And I also think now with maybe 10 years ago, maybe 20 years ago, maybe sites and districts didn't feel the pressure of this. But now with declining enrollment, um, with micro-schooling, with more charters in private schools, uh you cannot, as a site, as a district, ignore the fact that there is competition. It's the free market in education now. So really people um need to brand like any other company would, get the word out about the great things that are happening. And that's what Lynette and I talk about in the book is really lifting the veil, you know, pulling back the curtain on what's happening. I think as educators, we assume everyone knows the incredible things that are going on, but they don't. I like to think also, like I talk about, you know, women, and when women work, they put their heads down and they get to work and people are gonna notice the great work they're doing. No, they're not. They're not thinking about you. So you really, as a woman in a career, need to be intentional about emailing bosses, you know, making sure they know what you're doing, but also as a site, really being intentional about telling the parents, getting the word out there, empowering them to tell the story. We talk about alumni, parents, the greatest advocates for your story, as well as the scholars. How do we empower the scholars to tell the story? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And if you look at what's often are the loudest voices talking about, say, public education, and they're often have a very twisted idea of what's happening in the schools. And for those of us that work in schools and around schools, like what this is not the story that we see. We see incredible things happening on these campuses, we see incredible teachers doing unbelievable work, and then you go on social media and you're like, What are you what are you all what are you even talking about? Well, part of that is we have to get better at telling our own story and making sure that we um share that story and counter that the negativity that is filling the space already, and we have to kind of fight for space within that.
SPEAKER_00:And that is so important because if we look at like every town has a transparent blah blah blah blah blah site about the district, and the more we empower teachers, the more we empower classified staff and families and scholars with the actual truth or their, you know, the truth as we see it, right? Of what's happening, then the more they can go onto those sites and say, well, actually, I hear what you're saying, and actually blah, blah, blah, blah, right? Because the no one's no one is blocking or hiding posts on those sites. And you're right, the loud voices create the narrative on those sites. So, yes, we need to not only tell our story ourselves, but also please empower your families and various languages too to do the same.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And so uh the Ed branding book is kind of broken into three sections, and it starts with branding yourself, and then there's also your site, and then also your organization. And one of the things that I noticed about the branding yourself part of it is that you went into um you would lead someone through this idea of kind of examining what are your core values, and then you listed your core values in there. And so is that something that you recognize is someone's thinking about, well, what is my brand? Do you think is that kind of a starting place is to look at what your core values are?
SPEAKER_00:Definitely. So when we, you know, thanks to Adam Welcome, or thank you for connecting us with, I think Adam and I were connected already through Jessica um and Allison. And then, you know, he uh told us, okay, look, Lynette and Renee, you're gonna have this book. Um, you definitely need to have a podcast. So I want to praise Adam Welcome for forcing us into that uncomfortable space. He said, do it as a runway for your book. And so then we thought about a conversation that we had had with actually Tara Martin, um, you know, and she talked about, you know, her, she said, my she literally, when she did her pitch, was like, my my brand is be real. So she talked about branding as we had our pitch meeting. And so then when Lynette and I talked about having the script, I said, you know, Tara made a really good point. And maybe because our book is about educational brand, we should just start with a question: what is your brand as an educator? And we had a few people reach out. I don't really know what my brand is or how would I do that? And so for me, I thought a great place is the core values. We're not the first people to talk about core values. There's a book called True North that talks about core values. The first time I was ever asked to talk about core values was with a book called The Uh Leadership Challenge by Kuzes and Posner in a teacher leader certification academy that I attended. Brene Brown does a values activity. So we are not the creators of the values activity. I actually had to do it, it was probably the fourth time I did it was at University of Laverne in earning my doctorate. And the first year of the doctoral program is getting to know yourself as a leader. You have to know yourself right before you can lead others. And a part of that is knowing your core values because you're gonna get in those gray areas where times are tough and you need to know what your core values are. So in that gray span, you can figure out what you're going to do. And so with branding, same. Start out whether it's three or five. What are your core values? What do they mean to you? They may have definition, uh dictionary definitions, but what do they mean to you? And then more importantly, what does that look like in action in your life? So we ask people to do that activity, uh, lay out it, you know, three to five. Five is great. Five, we don't want more than five because you're not going to remember them, right? So five core values, and based on that, then what is your brand? And then uh lately, when I do some keynoting, I've asked people, I'm trying to integrate artificial intelligence, right? So I'll say, okay, now take your five core values, put them in the chat GPT, ask chat GPT, okay, what's my brand? Now people have been using chat and different uh large language models a lot more now, so they can actually go in and based on all their history, what they've written, you know, what is my brand? You probably you may not even have to do the five values activity if you've been in those sites enough. It can come up. But I think giving um the large in the uh giving chat whatever you use, Claude, uh, the five values is gonna help. Um, but it was really interesting too. Some people ask, like, what's my symbol? Uh, what would be a good motto for me? And I thought that was a nice extension of what we what I, you know, Lynn and I have been asking them to do. So definitely uh knowing your core values is extremely important. And then we ask people, you know, it's one thing to say my core value is love. Uh, you need some people to reflect, like, are you actually showing that? You know, are you actually living up to your core values? And we ask people to get themselves a board of directors to really reflect with them if they're living up to their quote unquote. I have air quotes going now with my fingers, uh, their brand. Yeah. But yeah, that's one of the activities in the book.
SPEAKER_01:The sometimes we need people to hold a mirror up to us, right? And say, like, well, yes, you say these are your core values. However, you know, let's take a look at your um there's the the famous idea that like if you really want to know what someone's values are, like look at their calendar in their relationships. So, like, like, well, you say that you value uh being like a teacher, teacher evaluation or teacher observations and being in classrooms. So, well, let's take a look at your calendar for this next week. I see you don't have any time in teacher classrooms. Like, I so you can work with school leaders and seeing, like, are the things that you say you prioritize, are they actually reaching your calendar? And why are they not reaching your calendar? And that's can be like a powerful thing for district admin to look at too.
SPEAKER_00:I agree too. Same with budgets, right? So, Dr. Jennifer Root, she's a soup over in Menifee. Uh, she used to always say, as a CBO in Anaheim, you can tell a district their values, what they value in reality by looking at their budget. So the same thing, right? Like, do your values line up with what you budget either as personally or as a site leader? Uh, where are you putting those funds? And then we're gonna know what you actually value.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. Now, uh one of the things this also came up in uh when I was on the Ed Browning show, but we were we kind of dove into some of my background in magic. Um, but in the midst of talking about that, and in the midst of also talking about the why I formed Stabers Consulting, it came out that you have quite an extensive background in the music industry. And so I wanted to dive into that a little bit, and maybe you could tell us what it was that you used to do in the music industry and how that has influenced how you look at your work now in districts and your ideas around branding and all that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so um I like to say that like every, you know, how people in college are like, and then I backpacked across Europe, and everyone's like backpacking, and it's like this little thing that people say. And then some people say, and then I wasn't my band, my band in college, right? So um, I yeah, I always wanted to be in a band when I was a little kid. I wanted to write, and I wanted to be in a band. I uh like, what is it? Uh right sided the brain was very active in me. And so um, yeah, yeah, got into a band when I was in high school and go through like different versions of bands. And um, yeah, I got into what was like my real band was He's Dead Jim. The little Star Trek thing going on there. And it was the band was either gonna be trouble with triples or he's dead gym. And so yeah, that was the band that I was in in college.
SPEAKER_01:And were you singing or playing an instrument?
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, I was like a buck 25 then and a front person. And uh yeah, it was super fun. I'd write the lyrics, and um, you know, I was I was at I I think we got we formed a band when I was at Riverside Community College. So RCC, I was on a scholarship. It was the Riverside Scholars Foundation scholarship that took people, started them at RCC, and transferred them to UC Riverside. So it was an academic scholarship, but I still wanted to be in a band, right? So then transferred over to UCR. And yeah, by the time I got to UCR, I think some of our claims to fame, right? Like we never, you know, we were never signed to like a huge label, but our claims to fame where we played with this band bikini kill, who were like the original sisters, they're like the grandmothers now of the riot girl movement, which was just really integrating feminism. And I'm a proud feminist, people can say whatever they want. All that feminism is is women, men wanting political, economic, and social equity, equality for women. I don't think that's a radical thought. People can change the narrative, rebrand it all they want, or say different things about it. But yeah, so they were some original feminists in uh the music, kind of like the alternative music scene. And so, yeah, we played with them at Claremont Pomona uh and uh I think for a girl sorority, and that was crazy because then they blew up after that. You know, they were on um, oh my goodness, I think uh the singer Kathleen Hanna was um in the Sonic Youth video. So now I'm dating myself because young people don't know who Sonic Youth is or any of these people, but yeah, yeah, and then I wound up being in another band, and um after that, and we were able, we put out, you know, a bunch of records. We're actually, I guess, we were on Immancy Punks and Out of Poland, and then um another label. I'm so like distanced from it, but another label out of oh gosh, uh the Berkeley School of Music. It's in um Massachusetts, right? So um, yeah, a label that was out of there. So a little indie, kind of like, you know, I always liken like your publishing company, right? To like an independent record label. Like you started your own publishing company, you said, I'm gonna do it myself, DIY, I'm gonna take control of this, and I'm gonna do it. And so that's what a lot of people did back in the day is they're like, no, I don't need to be associated with a major label. Like, I'm gonna start my own label. And so we were on small labels, and yeah, we got to as a result, uh, we toured Europe twice, uh, played all over, played some famous places, like in that scene. Not not like Taylor Swift style, but like, you know, the Koopie, Koopi in uh Berlin was a huge place back then. Um, yeah, it was it's wild. So um, so yeah, that was that was um a chapter, right? A chapter in my existence, you know. From being a kid, I always wanted to be in a band and I got to see that dream come true. And and so I've always been what they call in the scene straight edge, which means like I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs. And um, maybe there was a time where, you know, like people, you know, like I'm sure we've all like when we're little kids, like snuck a little smoke over a cigarette, right? So I'm not saying uh I've never drank alcohol. Of course, I have when I was younger, but about like 28 or so, like completely um yeah, decided not to uh drink alcohol anymore. And that was uh a commitment I made with my mom, who also decided to not drink anymore at the age of 50 something. I was problem with her. She's very open about it. So in solidarity with my mom, I did that. So um, so going back to the original question, yeah, I wasn't a little band and that branding.
SPEAKER_01:I will just say that real quickly, uh something you might not know about me is that I'm a hardcore straight edge in that uh I've never had a sip of alcohol in my entire life. So there's very few people that can say that. Um actually, Tara Martin is another one. So the fact that we work together is kind of strange. But I have nothing against drinking. Uh everyone I know drinks, I have no problem with it, but like I just don't. And so I've never had any alcohol, um, never smoked a cigarette, never, I did not uh sneak one of those smokes. Oh, wow. It started off as kind of like an athletic thing, a sports thing. Okay, and it became more almost, it was like it was actually more rebellious to not do than to do it. Whereas like everyone else was like, come on, everyone is doing it, all this kind of stuff. Like so I was actually, I enjoyed the um rebelliousness of not doing it. And so I was the permanent designated driver. I would go to all the parties, but I was the permanent designated driver and would take people around. And so, and your background, what you said about the um being an indie label um as a book publisher, like the the whole music thing resonates with me completely. The idea of rejecting the major labels and maintaining the um intellectual property rights of your material and the creative control of your material, not losing the creative control. All those things resonate with me. These are things that I wanted with my book. I wanted to maintain my creative control, I wanted to have the intellectual property rights, I wanted to be compensated fairly for my intellectual property, all these things like this, which is what eventually why um we started to offer this kind of model to the other authors. And it just absolutely um tracks perfectly with some of the stuff with uh the music industry and intellectual property rights and people not owning their masters and all that. Speaking of Taylor Swift, like uh her doing the work to gain back control of her masters is a big part of her story. Um, Prince, people a lot of people don't understand how that was part of Prince's journey, too. And everyone thought he was so crazy when he was calling he was just the symbol, the artist formerly known as Prince. And the reason was is because of the whole battle he was having with his record label and the contract and all that. And so, like, they don't understand some of the business behind what people they just thought he was being eccentric, when actually it was, you know, there were some very important reasons why he was doing that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was really purposeful, right? Really purposeful. And uh yeah, I uh, you know, I'm not I wouldn't call myself a Swifty, but there's a couple of albums that I like. I like the Reputation album, and I really do like this new album. And maybe I haven't given the other albums enough, not to go on a Taylor Swift tangent, but uh having listened to it, right? And uh she has this song uh called Father Figure, where it just talks about like someone, like, you know, it's basically the story of her, you know, the guy having her master selling it to someone she couldn't stand, right? And then having to work to get her masters back. And yeah, I think that, you know, anyone just buying records or buying books, they don't really understand the ownership aspect of um of music and how people don't see a lot of money from their actual recordings or books. Uh, people have to like tour 24-7 to actually be able to pay their bills. And not someone like Taylor Swift, but smaller artists, you know. I think Chaperone talks about that, like how she was almost destitute, right? Because uh even though she was signed, she wasn't, she didn't even have health insurance. So yeah, these are kind of this is another way of like lifting the curtain, like pulling back uh, you know, the veil on different um organizations, different industries. But yeah, going back to branding, I had to, as you know, early in the band, you know, back in the day, you would create flyers like paper leaflets. You would go to shows and you would hand those out, like and you would stay until the end of the show, you would put them on cars, you know, like businesses would to promote their businesses. It was just what you did. And I think that um one, that kind of, you know, going to record stores, going to shows all the time. Um, that helped me. And when I got my job in Westminster and we're rolling out the first Vietnamese dual language immersion program in the state, I had to go to it's called um, it's a mall, it's an Asian garden mall in uh Little Saigon, which is Bolsa, it's on Bolsa in Westminster. And I would go to that mall and I would put uh brochures for the Vietnamese program on cars on the weekend. I would go to events. Um, they would have the Tet celebration, which is a lunar new year, because although people call it Chinese New Year, it doesn't belong to the Chinese. Chinese, they have their lunar new year, but it's overall lunar new year, and then each Asian community calls it something else. So in Vietnamese, it's the Tet. And so I would go to the Tet Festival in Orange County at the fairgrounds, and it is no joke. I would follow parents with small children and go up to them and introduce myself. And I think that that skill set, like even coming up with a promotional plan. Like I had to give my superintendent um a like backwards planning, promotional marketing plan for the program. All those skills, I didn't get those in my master's, you know, educational leadership, how to create a promotional. They did not teach me those things. That is the kind of like when you work outside of education, some of the skills you bring in. So, you know, I say in the book, I never really thought that all those skills I earned, you know, in the um music industry would pay off in education, but they really did. And I think, you know, the ability to grab a microphone and at any point, you know, speak, that's because, you know, there's these times where a guitar string breaks. So, you know, like you have to just fill time. And so, and then the branding, definitely, you know, having to promote, getting to not having, but getting to promote the arts. Um, you know, that helped me when um yeah, when I'm out of sight, promoting a site, promoting a program, promoting the district. And I think at first, maybe a few, maybe a decade ago, people were like, oh my gosh, like why is she telling every story about her district? But now I see many more people doing it, and it makes my heart happy because we all need it's okay. It's okay to tell the story. And and if people give you a hard time about it, that's look, people project. So anytime someone says something negative to you, just know that there's something going inside and just give them the benefit of the doubt. Thank you for that, you know, input. And then you do you, you do you. Like I'm lucky to me.
SPEAKER_01:All this resonates with me because I can think of all the crazy things that I used to do back in the day to get attention around things that I was doing, and how those skills then eventually show showed up for me as an entrepreneur with the publishing company and going back to various things, like my um early days, getting involved in rap and being an MC and all this, and how like, well, what is one of my most famous for now? Maybe is like the speaking and being very flourishy and fast and energetic on a microphone in front of people. Well, it kind of goes back to that. Same with the magic. And I can remember doing children's magic shows back in the day, and uh and every kid at that party would go home with a uh goodie bag, a treat bag. And what was inside of that goodie bag? My contact information for the parents who are then going through the goodie bag to bring them, bring me to their birthday party. Right, so every kid went home with my stuff. So it was like early forms of like very low tech marketing. And even at the beginning of this, um, I would collect, hand collect like half sheets of people's email addresses everywhere I spoke. I would like say, like, hey, you know, the sign up for the email list, and you can get this. I would they would get something if they sign up for the email list. And then I would hand enter, I would sit with a big stack. I can't even believe it now, but I would hand-inter my email list into the computer, and like it's all started very low-tech, but some of these kind of marketing ideas and branding ideas from various things. And you had this interesting line in the book that I loved. It said, This is a fascinating line. It said, when I became an educator, I never expected that all of these skills picked up from candy sales, hustlers, and punk rock shows would be necessary. So that's a fascinating look into the background of Renee.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, and the hustler part is uh, you know, I tell a story about my uh my bio dad. Like, you know, we we don't choose the parents we're born into. And so yeah, he was um a grifter. If you've seen the movie Grifters, way back in the day, he was a grifter. Um, and you know, um, my mom has her own story of why, you know, like, you know, people have backgrounds that lead them to certain people. And so I'm thankful that the two of them got together because I'm here. And um, I think it's it's beneficial to look at our past and find the positives in it. And so that's a positive of my grifter dad. And that's an activity that actually University of Laverne had us do. They had us write our leadership autobiography. And a part of that was looking at, you know, and it was through this lens of Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey. Um, and you know, you're going to come across some people that um maybe they're positive and negative in your life, right? And so for him, uh I, you know, there's a whole list of negatives and they're very negative. Uh, but a positive thing is that yeah, he was a salesman and he taught me how to sell and he stood there with this is what you say, this is what you do. And so yeah, as a result, like a thousand and one, you know, campfire girl. I was like the winner, my picture's a paper, like all this stuff. But he gave me that kind of competitive saleswoman spirit. And probably I wouldn't be exactly well, I know for sure I wouldn't be exactly, I wouldn't be the person I am today without all the experiences. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But that actually is reminds me of Tara Martin in a way too, because Tara comes from a very traumatic background and has a very complicated and not so great relationship with her father. Um but actually, and this kind of came out of therapy is uh therapy is this idea of like, well, what was positive? You know, do you have any positive um remembrances of timed with your dad? You know, not obviously there was all this bad stuff, but is there anything positive? And one of the things was was a conversation at a pool that her father had with her about going off of the diving board. And then she turned that into Cannonball Inn, um, which was her children's book. So she took some, you know, this the trauma of her past, but then was able to find this one positive moment, this interaction that had impacted her life that was with this dad and uh created a children's book out of it. And so it's interesting what we can do when we like tap into our past.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's beautiful. That's like the highest level of being able to overcome the trauma, right? Is to transform it into not only something for you positive for yourself, but also positive for others to learn from. So that's a beautiful story.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So, Renee, one of the things that you're famous for, uh, first of all, uplifting and celebrating others in social media spaces, which is uh, you know, a big part of your kind of ed branding story. Um and I love the fact that you celebrate people at all levels, and um you're so good at that. And then also you are known for knowing all these different days of the year and this like the it's this day and it's this month, and it's it's this week, all that. So give us your secrets. What is your sources? Where how do you come up with all these ways of celebrating people?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I think so. To the first point, um this idea of celebrating people when they get a new job or they've made a milestone in their life. I mean, it doesn't take us that long, right? To to do a post. Even if it's just like, hey, join me in congratulating Dave. He has this, you know, he has a new podcast out with Allison and Emily. Like, oh, listen, that doesn't, you know, share, put a line. If you don't have time to put a line, just share, share. Like that's a way of encouraging people. So I highly recommend for people to do that. You know, that's a just a simple thing. And then I talked about this book called The Leadership Challenge, is actually the framework for my dissertation. And my dissertation was on teacher leadership and transformational leadership. And so their book, The Leadership Challenge, is about transformational leadership. And so there's five practices of exemplary leadership from their research. And the last one is encouraging the heart. And they say that it is the least practiced by leaders. And so, and and and actually in my research, it also was the least practice, and according to these leadership practice inventories on teacher leaders, it was the score they got the lowest. So my own dissertation actually mirrored the the greater research because they they don't deal in education, they deal in organizations, private organizations. And so, you know, they have 30 years of research around this. So for me, I've always tried to be very intentional of like, okay, that's a weakness for leaders. So how can I overcompensate for what um can be uh a weakness? So my whole thing is like trying to encourage the heart of others. So how can I do that? It can be shouting people out, acknowledging um, you know, wins for them. And I and I think it's really important to remember that shouting other people out, encouraging them, congratulating them does not take anything away from you. Like it doesn't make you less. Um, if they accomplish something that you want to, still encourage them. I really like to over-emphasize that there's enough cake for everyone. Like, please don't have starvation mentality when it comes to anything. People may be like, well, there's only one superintendent of a district, or there's only one ed division assistant. Okay, yeah, but there's many superintendents everywhere, and there's many assistant superintendents. And I know that there's like competition. I'm not trying to be ignorant or Pollyanna about that, but really what you put out comes back to you. Like if you cannot think of it any way else and think of it like that, you know, really it just the more of us that encourage each other, the better. So I that, yes, that's a part of my brand, and I'm proud of that. And I hope other people, you know, I hope I inspire other people to do it as well. And then um, the second part um around, and I've already lost track of the second part.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so like you always I'd be fired, you don't get the job, yes. It's this person, it's like the something, something week of the year or something, like all this.
SPEAKER_00:Ah, yes. Okay, so acknowledging uh people through uh yeah, okay, so I did do a post on this as like a tip because there's nothing worse than when a district acknowledges one group but then forgets to acknowledge the others. And there is a very easy way to make sure you don't forget that, and that is to um do you just have to uh subscribe to or go to the page or uh get on their email list for the national days calendar. It's free, you know, and they'll they'll email you the night before. They have everything um logged so you can look at a month at a time. Like, is it IT professionals day? Is it custodian's day? Is it like what days are it? And and if you're a PIO, that's easy. I mean, I know people doing other jobs, you know, they may not want to have all of that, but I think it's it's good, you know, for maybe the PIO or someone in the organization to have all that on a calendar, invite everyone else so people are aware of how they can celebrate people. Another resource because the national day's calendar is for everything, it's not just for education. So I think a good resource in California is a California Department of Ed, they have a calendar, and I'm sure every other state has a calendar of what they recognize. So that is specifically for education. And then the national PTA, the parent teacher association, they have a calendar that they put out. So it's three sources, and um, I know what we're talking about, Brian. We're asking people, it seems like we're asking them to do a lot, but just take an hour, get all those things on the calendar if your organization doesn't do it or if you don't, and then um, yeah, decide what you're gonna recognize. It's it's I mean, it seems like a lot until you do it, and then it's like it's done. It's just like putting all those dates for every meeting you have on the calendar. Like if you don't have an assistant, you have to do it yourself. Dave, I I don't think you have an assistant that does all this for you. So you have to do all this yourself. I have to do it myself too. So just one more, it's just a little thing that makes a big difference.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so and I think that for a lot of people, it's not always that they don't want to celebrate things happening in their district or around them, but maybe they feel um they don't know where they're gonna get their content, and that's an easy way to find some content and some things that they can put out and and post on. And then I think also is that this idea that you don't have to be the generator of all of the content, but I know that you talk about you can tap into other people, like why did why are you not tapping into your alumni? Why are you not tapping into your community, the parents? Why are you not tapping into teachers on your campus and asking them, like, hey, send me things that are happening that are uh that would be great shares on social media that highlight positive things happening in our school system, right? But really tapping into a wide variety of people to uh share great things happening.
SPEAKER_00:Agreed 100%. I think one area and uh talk about this a lot lately is this idea of look, we we talk about college and career readiness. A lot of us are looking through the lens of even like K, like as young as Kendagar, right? Like how do we introduce um global education concepts and career concepts at a at a young age? And everything's about scaffolding, like what's right for that age, right? And so when you have seniors or juniors, like Anaheim, amazing, Anaheim innovative mentoring experience. And so the junior, the rising seniors are able to intern, like we had them intern at Summer Language Academy, they were co-teachers. They like sometimes you couldn't tell like who's the real teacher in the room. That's how the training was. Everyone, whether you're a big bilingual IA, an intern from the university, uh a certificated teacher, or um the junior that's a rising senior, they all got the same training, they all split up the lessons. And so if we're trusting juniors to teach, you know, other students, if we are trusting our scholars to go and work in an elected official's office for the summer, like how come we need to think about why can't we? Why not? Like the book, why not, right? Why not have our scholars earn some credit and do some of this work? You know, the PIO doesn't have to do the podcast, right? Like, like think creatively about how to take stuff off of people's plates, empower our scholars, but also give them, make it credit bearing, right? Or internships, some way for them to add it to their actual resume for college. And, you know, even the smartest, like how do our scholars that, you know, are the most competitive, will they become even more competitive? And when they add internships and those real life experiences where they got to use all those soft skills um onto their college application. So, yes, we don't have to do all the work, Dave. You are absolutely right. We just have to be confident and set up systems and structures and processes so that our scholars can do it and then um, yeah, guard rails with everything, guard rails with everything.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I think that this is, I know this is something that you're passionate about. It's an opportunity to um lift voices that have been traditionally marginalized in our school systems and communities, and like really um allow more people access to the microphone.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's so important. So even with you know, so Lynette and I are doing a podcast, and you know, then we have our own podcast. And, you know, it made me think, well, what's involved in podcasting? Okay, you have to script, you have to research, it's listening, speaking, reading, and writing. And so those are the four domains of English language development when we talk about pluralingual or in a more like old school term, an English learner. And so I a couple years ago I was like, okay, who's interested? I was at the ELD department chair meeting. I was like, look, this is a way uh we can pilot this, you know. As you said, with um as you, Emily and Allison were talking about, it's a try-in, right? Like, who wants to try? Pilot. And if it goes south, hey, you tried it. No big deal. If it's not for you, it's not for you, but who wants to try it? And it was really interesting. The people uh who uh decided to do it, and it was fun to see um like what came like the impact and the outcomes and the work products. And those are it, what's really interesting is Anaheim focuses on capstones and more authentic, like performance tasks assessments, which is where like Linda Darling Hamilton, how I'm sorry, Linda Darling Hammond talks a lot about this, you know, like when in her global education book, she she talks about how other countries we don't have these standardized tests. It's about authentic performance-based assessments, right? And can you can you actually do what you say you can do? And so uh podcasting is a great PTA, right? Because that's how you know, and so it was fun, and and and it doesn't need so the other thing people get hung up on is like, oh, I have to buy this expensive equipment. So you can buy the equipment because that's fun for the kids, but you like look at you and I, Dave, like we're on a zoom, and and I'm gonna I'm gonna lift the veil back on my superintendent or Michael Matsuda's podcast, right? For Anaheim Future Talks. They record it, Dave, on Google, Google me. Yeah, like it's not even Zoom, and maybe you can hear that sometimes in the quality, but that is how lowbrow, like you whatever you don't need fancy, you don't need to do Riverside FM, like you don't have to pay a lot of money to put something out, and that is where that DIY do it yourself mentality comes in again. Like you don't need a fancy production, you don't need to edit. Another thing the PIO at Anaheim says, he says, I don't edit, I don't have time to edit, I'm not gonna edit. So what happens in that podcast is what happens, and then it gets put out. And people are bored. Like that's that. So yeah, I I think that uh empowering our scholars to podcast um is a way to um amplify more voices, as you said, and um a variety of voices. And I put out a little tip maybe a month ago about why can't every school have a podcast? And so it's fun. You know, I know people were already thinking this ahead of time, but I know the ladies from unsupervised leadership now they have a district podcast where some of the scholars they have their own podcasts, and so that's fun. That's that's that's exciting. That that is what should be happening, right? Like really empowering scholars to do real life activities, not just read about podcasting, not just listening, but actually doing it. We learn, and you and Emily and Allison also talked about this experiential learning. There's so much research around experiential learning. We learn better uh when we can experience by doing right, it's that thing. If I do only I like it's the thing about teaching, right? If I teach something, well, I'm gonna get better and better and better. But if you can teach someone else, that's when you're gonna learn the most. And so, same with experiencing um the learning, experiential learning is where it's at. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so speaking of podcasts, you have your own now, your story matters, right? So uh go get connected with Renee through her podcast. Um, and what would you say is the kind of the the what what is the story behind your story, the your story matters podcast? What can they what will people find there if they go listen to those episodes?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. So first I want to say that I wrestled with a name for a while, but I had this shirt that I bought at the national um what is it, conference for teachers of English. So we did a session there. So I'm I have I'm a contributing author to a book called Radically Inclusive Teaching. I probably would have never become a member of this national conference or I had a council of teachers of education. I think it's a council of teachers of education. I wouldn't become a member if I wouldn't have presented, you know, and and so I went there and in their gift shop they had this shirt, had a heart, and it said your story matters. I was like, I have to have that shirt. And so the that always stuck with me. And there are, I'm gonna be fully transparent, there are quite a few podcasts with that name, but I don't have an issue with that. And the more the better, and just put my name with the your story matters. That's how you're gonna find us on Apple, Spotify, all the places. And yeah, uh, people's stories do matter, it's so obvious, and um, it's exciting to be able to have people on um and asking them about their why is kind of like asking people about their brand, like what motivates them. And um, that's an important question. And I liked when Dr. Avis Williams, she was the past superintendent for uh Nola, New Orleans, right? Um, she said it changes too, and that's okay too. Our why changes, so it's fun to uh be able to hear people's stories, uh listen to their whys, um, you know, just talk about what's happening right now with them. And then um, you know, here and there, depending on the person, asks some different questions, just like you do. And um, yeah, I'm always open to have new guests. I mean, I had a teacher leader from Stockton on just recently, Don Botts. Uh, he has like 40 tips for 40 weeks, something like that, because he has 40 years in education, and I would never have known about him. And then he connected with me, said, Hey, I'd like to be on your podcast. And so it can be as simple as that, you know, just reaching out to me. Um, I try to do them every week, and I'm just excited to help people tell their story and um and that way help them tell their scholar stories, people, their colleagues and communities. So there's there cannot be enough podcasts, and there cannot be enough books and all of it. So yeah, I I love doing the podcast. I am a people person, I am a connector, so it's super fun to connect with people uh via the podcast and help amplify their voice, just like you do with yours.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, absolutely. And so uh, Renee, you also do speaking and can do keynotes and workshops and all that sort of stuff. So if people want to connect with you, um, where are the best places to reach Renee Bryant?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so uh it's pretty simple. I put the D R in front of it on Instagram, uh, on X, on Blue Sky. So it's D R Dr. Renee. And it's with A. My mom decided to be clever and put an A in my name. So it's R-E-N-A-E-B-R-Y A N T Bryant, like Kobe Bryant, Anita Bryant going way back. Um, yeah, connect with me, say hi. And uh before we end, I do want to say this. I don't want to give a shout out to the two universities. I know this is a question I always ask other people about doctorates, but I just want to say, like, hey, keep learning, right? Whether it's going to conferences, whether it's getting certificates, or whether you decide to get what they call, and I'm doing air quotes, a terminal degree, keep learning. And because I am an adjunct for two different doctoral programs, I want to say to people who may think about it but go, oh, not me. I couldn't do that. If I could do it, you could do it, realizing, you know, uh the privilege I have in my skin. But it's even, I don't want to say like it's even easier. It's not, it's still as difficult, but they're making it more accessible, I guess is the best word to say. So for example, Cal State Fullerton, they have kind of a traditional program of three years, two in person, one the last year you're working on your doctorate. For University of Lavarne, it's different than the program I went in, which was three years in person for organizational leadership. They have a new program that is all online, except for two times where you meet in person. It's the two summers. And so it's a completely online doctoral program for working professionals. It's a doctorate in educational leadership. And this made me think of your episode again with Emily and Allison because um, when you think of doctoral programs, and you guys talked about this, like the research is boring and it's not really applicable. And so, how important action research is. And so, what's exciting about, I guess, both programs of Fullerton and Laverne is they focus on a dissertation in practice. And what that is, is in a traditional dissertation like my own, I wasn't allowed to do the study at my site or at my district. They encouraged us, like we weren't allowed to do that. There's a lot of bias. If you get results that maybe aren't complimentary, they'll try to like smother your research, like all sorts of things, right? Like the worst case scenarios, right? But now that's a different way of looking at research. Now they want people who are working professionals to be able to look at a problem of practice, right? In their own site, in their own classroom, and to be able to research and investigate, you know, how what are possible, like do a little experiment, right? I heard you guys talking about the science fair for teachers. So being able to do an experiment around that problem of practice, and then yeah, you write about it, and that's your dissertation. It's still five chapters. Um, it's still, you know, if you it could go through the internal review board, the IRB, which everyone's afraid of, but don't be. And so I just wanted to say that out loud on your podcast. There's no judgment, just like with drinking, without a doctorate, with a doctorate, no alcohol, alcohol, no judgment. But I just want to give a little encouragement for people who may be thinking about it, but make a list of reasons of why not. And so also with Laverne, it's like half the cost of what mine was. So I know you're like, stop with your little commercial, but you know, I just want to encourage people that may be, you know, having some imposter syndrome or self-doubt. And I just wanted to put that out there.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. And it reminds me actually of one more thing that I wanted to ask you about. And I think this is another thing that I've noted about you is that you are a huge believer in professional organizations and seem to have gotten a lot out of um your um being being a part of different professional organizations. And I think that is maybe something that you would probably encourage people to do as well. So there's a lot of people that that don't join all the different professional organizations they have at their disposal.
SPEAKER_00:100%. So maybe people would say I'm a part of too many. But this is the deal. Um, you know, you get out what you put in, you can participate at a superficial level, which is that you join the organization, you get their emails. Great. You don't go to anything. Um, I think it's really important for people um to network and to network even outside of normal organizations that maybe they would think like for California, a lot of administrators are in the Association of California School Administrators Organization, AXA. And a lot join because you actually get liability insurance like a million dollars. So they're like, I'm just gonna join for that reason alone. But then they don't know. Okay, there's professional learning around AXA that you can take advantage of. There's a lot of networking events, there's local charters, um, so many things. And then the advocacy, they actually have advocates, governmental relations advocates that advocate for us and laws and how, and that affects like we can't be naive. Like you can't say, oh, I'm not political. No, every like you buy a soda, that's a political decision. What gas you put in your car, everything we do is a political decision. So embrace it and embrace that too, uh, knowing that, like, yeah, like each organization also advocates for us as educational professionals. So, yes, I'm a part of CALSA. So I also think it's important um for people to join affinity groups, uh, meaning I'm not Latina, I'm not Latinx, and still I can be a part of the California Association for Latino Superintendents and Administrators as an ally or trying to be an ally. It's up to them whether or not I'm an ally, but to be an ally. I also joined Casa, which is for African American Association of Administrators, uh, because it was the only one I wasn't a part of. And I was like, I don't know if I if I'm allowed to join it. They're like, no, you are. So I joined that. Uh, I'm a part of Capil, which is for Asians, uh, Asian administrators, and um, and I'm welcomed in in all these spaces, but I also want to show my allyship. Like with the skin I come in, there is privilege that I get um that comes just because of the skin I'm in. And so whatever I can do to advocate uh for other groups, I want to. And so I'm also a part of ARA, which is the American Educational Research Association, and that's been for a long minute because of everything that I'm involved in. I, because of the book, I decided, you know what? Uh, here I'm talking about branding. I'm not a public information officer, but it probably would be good for me to join their groups. Like, how dare I, you know, go into their space and not support them? So I am in California, a part of Calspra, which is a California association uh for I think school uh PR uh officials. I'm gonna get the long name, but it's Calspra and then INSPRA, which is of the national level. And both of those organizations are incredible in that, especially California, they have the best email thread like service where like one person will put in, like, hey, they're asking us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And some of them are superintendent issues, like, hey, we have this public information request. So it's everything from what are you guys doing for this issue? What are you doing for this other issue? And it can range all the way from the superintendent's office to something as simple as, hey, there's this conversation going on in this, you know, transparent blah, blah, blah. Do you have any advice for me? And they're so generous with their slide decks, with their information, with their knowledge. There's no kind of coveting knowledge. It's just, ugh, they're such an inspiration. So I will be a part of those groups as long as I can be. And then the California Association for Bilingual Education, uh, California's Together, which is an advocacy group around language access and parents' access and families access. And they advocate regularly uh with the state superintendent of education here in California. So yeah, I really do recommend that people become a part of professional organizations and then just dip your toe in the water as far as go to some free networking events, uh, bring some old-fashioned cards or get Blink and you know, start, or just go to LinkedIn. They have a little um a thing now where you can go to the search bar, you put your finger on it, and then there's this like little, you can barely see like a little QR code. You click that QR code, and then all of a sudden you have a QR code for people to scan and they can connect automatically with you on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn has made it almost unnecessary to have all these other services that we bought our cards, but do it. And the more we network, and again, I always say, like I said earlier, if you feel like branding or networking feels icky, then reframe you are doing this for the benefit of your scholars, your colleagues, your families, and your community at your site and your classroom. And you never know. And again, I can go back to Westminster. I said, okay, like I have not been a member of a Chamber of Commerce, but I'm gonna go to the Vietnamese American Chamber of Commerce meetings so that I can promote this program. And the next thing you know, they're like, Hey, would you like us to have a meeting at your school district? I'm like, I would love that. So I got to host them at the school district, tell them all about the program. They put us in their newsletter that helped to be able. To promote that program. So you never know. Things that you think, oh, that won't make a matter, that won't make a difference. It will. And then I, you know, I just had Mary Lou Ryder, uh, who also has her own boutique of books, and then Cindy Peterson, who's a co-author on their leading legends books around female superintendents are all retired now. Um, they talked about just show up, you know, just show up, especially early in your career. You never know when going to things. And uh, and I liked how she also framed it, show up and then show up, understanding that everywhere you show up is like an interview for you. So show up, how you show up is just as important. So show up, show up in a positive way, a professional way. And um, yeah, networking is not a bad thing. It's a very good thing. And again, I think I probably wouldn't be here talking to you right now, Dave, if um I didn't have that heart for networking, right? Like connecting with uh uh Majalise, I don't want to say her name wrong, and Rachel, you know, just reaching out to them, like, hey, I see you have this book, like that's my heart for women and leadership. You want to be a part of um this book study, reaching out to Allison and Jessica. Um, yeah, just uh, you know, establishing kind of a presence, right, on social media that helped to maybe get a pinky toe in the door with GPC.
SPEAKER_01:For sure, yeah, for sure. Well, and so there's so many opportunities to find connection with other people and to be in space with other people doing similar work and to be inspired by them, uplifted, and for not only for you to share your learning with them, but to bring your their learning back into your system, into your organization, what you're doing. And so uh that networking is is can be critical. And so I love that that's something that you advocate for. And um, again, thank you so much for being a positive light in social media and being so celebratory of others and uplifting of others, and that's um such a good thing to see in a social media world that can seem divisive. So when you find people that are a positive light there, it's a wonderful thing, and you are definitely that. And it is an honor to have you in the DBC family, like I said at the beginning, with the Ed Branding book, and um we just really appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much for listening to the Dave Burgess Show. Let's connect. I am at Burgess Dave on Twitter. My name just flipped around to Burgess Dave. On Instagram, I am DBC underscore INC, and I blog at Dave Burgess.com. Please share your thoughts and comments on social media using the hashtag Dave BurgessShow. It would mean the world to me if you'd share the show with friends and colleagues, and I would be honored if you left a positive review on whatever platform you listen on. Hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And if you have a question, a topic, or a guest recommendation for the show, just email me at Dave at DaveBurgis.com, put podcast question in the subject line, and I absolutely cannot wait to join you on the next episode.