In this special roundtable episode, Bill Bartholomew discusses the state of Rhode Island arts with leadership from three key stakeholders: AS220 Executive Director Shauna Duffy, Rhode Island State Council on the Arts Executive Director Randy Rosenbaum and The Columbus Theatre's Shawn Schiillberg
http://www.ass220.org
https://risca.online
https://columbustheatre.com
In this special roundtable episode, Bill Bartholomew discusses the state of Rhode Island arts with leadership from three key stakeholders: AS220 Executive Director Shauna Duffy, Rhode Island State Council on the Arts Executive Director Randy Rosenbaum and The Columbus Theatre's Shawn Schiillberg
http://www.ass220.org
https://risca.online
https://columbustheatre.com
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Speaker 2:visits the by telling you town thought test
Speaker 3:and welcome in to another edition of the Bartholomew town podcast. I'm your host, Bill Bartholomew on today's episode, a round table discussion on the arts in Rhode Island with astmd two 20 Sean Duffy. Risk is Randy Rosenbalm and the Columbus
Speaker 1:cooperatives. Sean Chilberg discover new episodes of the Bartholomew town podcast every Tuesday and Friday. Subscribe on Apple or wherever you consume podcasts. You can also head over to Bartholomew town.com or our I podcast.com you'll find the dozens of conversations I've had with Rhode Island politicians, media members, artists and beyond.
Speaker 3:All right, so we are here with an outstanding panel and we're going to look at the arts in Rhode Island, how it's connected to the greater community, how it's connected to how these organizations are connected with each other and what we can do to improve access to the arts and living conditions for artists potentially as well, which aren't bad for sure. I think you know, in Rhode Island's a pretty good place to live and work
Speaker 1:cause artist. Um, Sean Shoeburg from the Columbus Cooperative Columbus theater. What do you, what both yet? Well, what's the parent organization?
Speaker 4:Columbus cooperative operates the theater, the Columbus theater ink is actually the building still owned by John Burberry and his own distance, the mid sixties, uh, Columbus cooperative has been operating shows for about six and a half years.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Randy Rosenbaum, Rhode Island State Council on the arts. Thanks so much for your time. My pleasure. And that's a, that's a full time operation. Yeah, we're a state agency, so I'm a state bureaucrat and our role and responsibility is to support the arts in our state and to make sure that they are a significant part of the quality of life. We enjoy the economy of our state and the education of all Rhode Islanders. And Sean Duffy runs some place called[inaudible]. What's that all about? Yeah. So, um,[inaudible] you mentioned access earlier and um, that's a particularly big word for us right now. Um, has always been a part of our mission is about making art accessible, about art making and creating, but also experiencing, um, and in particular right now we're in the middle of our all access campaign and we're really trying to think about what does that mean for real? You know, what like we can pay it a lot of lip service, but what does it really mean to be an accessible organization and really create opportunities for people. Sean, something that the Columbus has done really well since it's origin is, you know, you've, you've had artists that appeal to a niche portion of the population, but you've really forged a community within that niche mark in a lot of ways. Do you feel like that's kind of an effective starting place to bring as many likeminded people together in a room and then go from there? Is that kind of the angle?
Speaker 4:Uh, yeah. I mean I give the credit, they're all goes to Tom Wayman, our booking director, and he's been doing that. That's part of his mission has been, you know, just not doing one niche of music. I think we got pigeonholed that first couple of years, maybe ended up into a full sorta scene. Um, but I think his dream, his vision was to get to kind of incorporate as many genres as possible and just people to music. So you know, every show that we do there is something that one of us wanted to be there, you know, it's not, you know, tribute nights or things like that. Um, and I think we built up a following of people that would just take a chance in a band that they've never heard of and our ticket prices are pretty low. I mean a lot of the venues in the town were pretty excited I think is fun. Price price wise, I think they're pretty accessible. We try to keep ours as low as possible and yeah, he books those shows that he thinks may be 20 people will come to in the first couple of years. That was the case. I think that those shows now we're getting like, you know, 50 to 75 will show up for those shows. You know, that those neat shows that sort of taking a chance here to have both sides. But uh, yeah, it's been great to see the growth and I think I'm repeating myself already, but, uh, yeah, I think it's that, you know, we have that core group of people that will show up for a show that they've never heard of before.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's sort of the magic. You know, you ain't, you introduce a brand that works across different genres, across different parts of the arts scene, if you will, in Rhode Island. Of course, you'll have now film. And I went to a damn Blake's, the art opening there. A bunch of things are happening.
Speaker 4:We've done the gallery's a couple of times. I think that's something we've talked about beefing up a little bit more because we've got some space there. We've got some blank walls, you know, that we could definitely work with. Um, film is always like, just on the verge of like kind of, you know, bubbling up for us, you know, like into something bigger. It's, we like films, they're easy, they're easy to do the shows. Um, and then the comedy is also been coming along way to, so in the occasional play. Uh, wow.
Speaker 1:Shawna, I know Asu 20, obviously since I was a little kid, um, was a place that was like the Providence Phoenix or Bru was one of those things for me growing up in the woods that you just saw it too. Uh, you look to as a gatekeeper, um, you still have that role in the city undoubtably end beyond how important do you feel is your mission right now? We'll use these, as you say, an access in terms of just bringing as many different people into the picture from around the state at this point in time. Is that kind of the, the, the main thing you're doing versus, hey, we're, where's the Columbus? You know, they're doing a lot of great programming. Is there a different sort of in your missions in, in your outreach and that kind of creates this ecosystem that we have here?
Speaker 5:I think so. I think, uh, you know, I've also been part of it as 20 since I was, you know, a teenager growing up in the suburbs, you know, over 20 years I've been hanging out there. And, um, I think one of the things you should just said using the word gatekeeper, um, and that's something I think as a is 20, like really kind of gets my, gets me like a little concerned because I think what we try to be as not a gatekeeper, like explicitly saying it is an juried and it is uncensored and anyone can perform here. Anyone can show here. I don't, is it good? Is it not? Knows what does that mean? Um, but that it's open to anybody and people really rise to the challenge. You know, if you give people space and opportunity and tools, um, that's all they need. Um, and so that's really important to us is that like all people have creative potential, um, and people who are not used to accessing things will continue to not access them. Um, so people have said to us like from other organizations, whether it's the, the dirt palace or Everett or you know, other organs that they can do what they do because I used to 20 exists. Um, even maybe the Columbus, like it allows you to be more focused in other places and not have to feel bad about that because there's always something there that's forever for everybody. Um, and that's really important to us
Speaker 6:and it's really interesting that it good programming on your part to have these two individuals here talking about this because it's two sides of the same coin. And that coin is critical to the cultural vitality of our state. You've got a curated space, a space that makes decisions on who to bring in and who to present in their space for the benefit of the wider cultural community, the wider community, cultural or not. And then you've got a space where people can go and explore and it's sort of research and development, um, writ large at Asu 20. And both of those things are absolutely critical for, for a vital cultural community.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. And I completely agree that you have to be able to take a chance at any age to, this isn't just youth outreach and that's what makes a, is to 20 at any age. You can sort of begin the exploration process there if you have the desire and, and you're willing to take it seriously as well,
Speaker 5:even if you're not a woman. The other day came up to me and she said, you know, I, I'm, I just, I want to support it. Is 20, what would it be without it? Um, I realized I always wanted to take a ballet class. So I just started taking it a couple of months ago. I had my 80th birthday and I thought, now's the time for me, it will be a dancer. So yeah, it is a pretty, that was an incredibly inspiring moment for me. Yeah, absolutely. But she's like, I'm not going to be good. I'm never going to be a ballerina. Right. But I'm going to enjoy myself. And that's, again, it's about creating space so that other things can happen and don't have to, not everybody has to do that. We all need to be here doing different pieces to make it a, a functioning ecosystem.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I guess my take it seriously. I should, I should read or re explain. I mean, uh, enjoy it, you know, not just show up and it's, you know, you're kind of just trying things out and, and encroaching on other people's experience. You know, it's not fooling around all the way, but the opportunity to try new things is vital. Riska has funded and advised plenty of projects in Rhode Island that have directly impacted a variety communities. I was down in Newport and several projects down there were funded by risk of those had an enormous outreach, uh, making its way to the med school, whatever it may be. How important is outreach to risk are right now
Speaker 6:it's important for us to connect to the broader community and to, to take up a belief out of, um, Shauna's book, uh, access is key. We're a government agency. We use taxpayers dollars to support the arts in our state. And that can't just be a segmented into orchestras in ballet companies and the like, we have to look at the broad range of community needs and community wants. We need to look at all the artists in the artists community in our state and all of the organizations that represent culture in Rhode Island and say we're not segmenting our support for just this kind that would only appeal to a white upper class individuals, but we have a responsibility to the entire state writ large. So, um, the other thing to, to underscore in that is that for the most part, we are not programmers. We look to the organizations such as rep are represented here and what they're doing in their community. And we, we hope to support them in their programming choices and activities so that we're not actually, uh, an arts producer. We are a supporter of the arts center state.
Speaker 1:Who would you say right now in this state run, is there anyone in particular that has an in, in terms of elected officials that you know, the biggest champion of the arts for you in terms of directly helping to get dollars into your pockets to be able to, to fund these programs?
Speaker 6:Well, you know, it's, it's uh, it sounds a little trite, but there, there are no, I had a conversation with a senator reed a couple of months ago and we were just talking about the arts and he said, you know, it's hard to get elected in Rhode Island if you're not a supporter of the arts. So I think we have broad support in the general assembly. We have broad support in the governor's office. The governor in her budget, uh, that was just released last month, has, um, even during difficult times, kept the arts, uh, uh, held even in, in state government and has also given us additional support to develop, to, to, uh, put together a workforce development in the arts program and also support to help us, uh, with the VSA arts, the organization that supports artists with disabilities. And programs for, for people with disabilities, um, to look toward, um, uh, becoming more connected and perhaps bringing them back into the Arts Council where that organization support us started. So we're, we're, we're pleased that the governor has put forward some additional money to help us do that. And of course, the general assembly and the governor have been supportive of the, a$30 million bond initiative that supports cultural facilities, capital improvements that was passed back in 2019, uh, 2014.
Speaker 1:The westerly theater and things of that sort. Is that okay.
Speaker 5:Bond nine major institutions including ASG 20, um, uh, along with about six and a half million dollars in, uh, in, uh, grant funds for small and medium size organizations doing capital improvements to their spaces. Okay. Sean,
Speaker 1:what's your perspective on, you know, lobbying and what kind of role do you all have, I suppose, do you, you, you and Sean and Shauna have fun seeing that 20 times in a row. Sean and Sean, I'll ask you each start with, uh, with Sean. What kind of role do you have in lobbying in terms of government? Is there any role? I know you have a voice on Twitter that your own personal voice, but do you do any sort of active educational work, anything to drive funds or initiatives towards the arts from, in terms of within political, inside baseball?
Speaker 4:Uh, well the political leader Ah, bent on it, probably not. I mean, I think the closest we'll come to it like supporting to direct support for the scene is I will provide space whenever we can, you know, to, you know, girls rock has been there several times, you know, there's a worthy cause like we're going to vote, we'll be there to open up, you know, and just provide the room.
Speaker 7:MMM.
Speaker 4:We have definitely have a little bit of a voice on a online, like through the Columbus channels. I try to keep my, my personal very, very much separate from that. I'm a little bit more, uh, probably aggressive online than the, than the theater's voice rise.
Speaker 7:MMM.
Speaker 4:But politically, I mean, we got involved with the Lord's this first campaign. You know, we had that, we had a rally at the theater, you know, that we pretty much, it was a free rally, but it was, we were at capacity that night, you know. So we definitely had our moments where we, there was something we wanted to get behind and promote. Um, I don't even know if it was so much for like, you know, hoping for something to come back to us later on. But just like that was like, well, we, we definitely have a preference in this mayor race. You know, we're going to do what we can.
Speaker 7:MMM.
Speaker 4:But yes, to date we haven't, we're not a nonprofit. So, and I think a few people think that we are, but we're not, we're not a nonprofit, so we haven't really lobbied so much for public dollars.
Speaker 5:What about on the Asu 20 side? Yes, because we are a nonprofit. We can't campaign, um, for any individual for public office. So we stay completely out of that, which is complicated because we have residents and people who are part of our community who sometimes struggle to understand like, where can I put this campaign poster and where can I not like your personal bedroom window? That's fine. In our ais to 20 storefront, not so fun. Um, but in terms of lobbying around, um, around issues, it's something actually we've been talking a lot about in the last couple of years. It's one of the think has always been very civically engaged. Um, maybe more than some other organizations, whether that's, you know, um, our founder was on the school board, you know, at one point it never had kids or anything. He was doing it very much from the perspective of as an organization, we care about education. Um, and we've always been really engaged in, I agree with Randy. I think we have an incredible support, um, with our legislators or state legislators and locally. Um, and I think there's some legacy there. You know, I mean the, the NEA, um, was basically created by a Rhode Islander. Um, you know, so we take a lot of pride in that. Um, and we try to be really engaged. So whether it was with the, um, with the bond in 2014, um, you know, joining together with nine other organizations statewide and that was really critical or eight other organizations statewide, um, that, that it was, you know, Westerly One socket, Warren and Providence, you know, it wasn't just a bunch of providence organizations and that was very intentional. Um, but it, it, uh, it got a lot of us thinking a little more broadly and as a lifelong Rhode Island or not, you know, I didn't grow up in Providence, but, um, I, you know, I'm like many Rhode Islanders. I never really went south of Warwick. Um, so, you know, it was, it's really important for us to, to be doing that kind of work statewide.
Speaker 6:I think it's really interesting, again, with these two organizations that the, for the politicians, it's what they've managed to do in the places that they're at that has made the difference in support that they, that they receive or the support the arts receive in general. Um, people with a memory know what that empire street location was like before to 20 did it's sweat equity and turned it into an economic driver in the community. The same goes with the Columbus theater on the west side, um, that, um, we don't have to go into the[inaudible] into the history of the Columbus theater prior to programming of legitimate programs readily available. It's readily available, but there's been a renaissance in the west side that has not escape the notice of publications like the New York Times that the Columbus theater has been a key motivating factor regarding. So politicians do, do recognize, even if they don't get the cultural value for the community argument, they absolutely get the economic and community revitalization argument for the, for the commute.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I spent 10 years, I grew up in Rhode Island, went to Uri, and then I lived in Brooklyn for a decade before moving back here. And it was, uh, an interesting social experience being on sort of the, the l train route as it extended from Williamsburg into East Williamsburg, then Bushwick, and then all of a sudden into Ridgewood. I always felt like I was very accepted in the communities I was living and had really good organic community relationships with the bug. Degas is whatever. It was. Nothing, not nothing insane, you know, made friends and played basketball or whatever. But I always knew that I was also the last stop before this was going to turn into gentrification. So what role to artists play in January vacation? Are they, I felt like some times I was being exploited. In fact, the New York Times article on the building we lived in
Speaker 6:that I met my wife at in Brooklyn, the Mckibbin lofts in New York. A cover story on that building is what drove us all out of there because then all of a sudden it was quote unquote clear for takeoff. Now you can put luxury condos in there. Providence seems like it could be in that type of situation. In 10 years they're talking about rail, extending the city out through central falls in Patucket. So what role do artists play in gentrification? Let's start with the uh, okay. And the main session is a huge issue and it's, it's not a happy story for artists in particular. So I'll go back 24 years now to when may or CNC pushed for the legislation that established a um, uh, arts districts in a downtown city providence and in a couple of other communities in the state of Rhode Island. Mayor CNC also, um, put forward a complimentary, uh, uh, language in municipal law that established um, uh, developers, um, incentives to restore and re, uh, restore loft space for artists. Um, uh, and we're sitting in one of those right now, actually one of those right now. The um, the, the mayor pushed for and others in the community pushed for, um, language that would protect artist's rights in that to avoid gentrification. So typically an artists move into a loft space through sit, sweat, equity would turn that space. Often the space was just barely up to code with turn it into something truly spectacular. They would then be priced out of being able to live in that space so that it could then be rented to somebody who's, who's willing to pay a lot more. Usually have lawyer or a doctor or something along those lines. Uh, they tried to get that written into, um, city code, um, Warren able to do it and some of the down city spaces, um, uh, our, which were originally envisioned for artists, artists can no longer afford to live in those spaces. So it's a real problem because the whole purpose of having an arts district is to be able to attract people to that area. And through the excitement of living and being with artists, uh, revitalize that area, the Soho affects, some people call it. Um, uh, but gentrification is a, is a nasty cycle. And, um, unless people are protected and developers fight that tooth and nail, um, it's not going to be a good story for artists. I mean, one of the ways that Ed Anstey 20, we responded to that because, you know, we were in two locations before we were on Empire Street, um, was to own it. And that was, you know, the, the visionary and um, presumptuousness, um, of, of our, our founder
Speaker 5:and some other folks at that time to think that we could just buy this building. That's half a city block downtown and um, and do it ourselves. But the, the result is that we can't get pushed out. Um, and, uh, then when we had the opportunity to buy a second and then a third building, I think a lot of folks in myself included just as a member of the community at the time thought, Oh, Asu 20 become this big developer, owns all this space and you know, is this really big behemoth at this point. You know, all of that was just in response to what was needed. Um, and uh, and it, it is a struggle every day to kind of make it work. Um, but we know that long term where they're, you know, those, those spaces and the majority of them are, uh, affordable, um, as in our restricted through, you know, whether it's Rhode Island housing or something else. Um, 11 of them are still communal. So still on the third floor of Empire Street, people live have their own spaces, but share kitchens and chores and bathrooms. Um, and then, um, all the rest of the units are our studio spaces. One challenge we have is that they're all individual loft apartments so they're not suitable for families. Um, it's something we think about a lot. Um, and we haven't figured out what, you know, what, how we can participate in something else. Um, in downtown, you know, we kind of slipped in with those last couple of buildings at the like last minute. There is not a lot of other opportunities, but we know that they will definitely always be, you know, four dozen units for artists to live downtown and the majority of which will be a highly affordable, you know, people live there for$350 a month. Some of them.
Speaker 1:Um, I personally know several artists that couldn't be doing what they're doing and would have given up and probably pursued another path if they didn't have those lofts. So critically important. Yeah, it's fundamental. I can say for me it's been this, one of the major factors, I'm very thankful to found this place and you know, think about the origins of, in the discussion that would create these tax incentives for a building like this to be affordable and it's not free. You know, it's not as if, you know, everybody can, you know, just come in here and do nothing. You have to work in professional thing. And I think that's a fair requirement. I, I was for a year in Newport when I first moved back and I moved into this incredible house that had 16 artists right downtown. It was owned by a benevolent soul that loved the arts and she just let musicians move in there and artists and people designing at Mit. It was incredible. And then she passed away. Developer bought it. Now it's an airbnb that 16 of us that are out of Newport all together, nevermind, move to a different place. Now we're up here somewhere in California in smaller parts of the, of, of Rhode Island. You'll look at Wakefield all of a sudden. Oh, great. Now there's, you know, the, uh, the Tetra Hydro Club and all these venues and all of a sudden things are happening. There are other areas besides providence in danger of this phenomenon. I think, I mean,
Speaker 5:I think housing is like the, one of the most critical needs in our state, in our city. And, um, and how the arts plays into that, you know, is, is something we all need to kind of be thinking about. Um, you know, um, Kerensen Tilea Rhode Island at a crossroads or an island was just talking recently, you know, they received this incredible award, um, to, uh, and the end she said, you know, we, we have this potential if we do this right, to, to really fundamentally change how we think about homelessness in Rhode Island. You know, this is, this is a gift that will allow us to make game changing things happen. Um, but there's this risk, you know, and there's all, you know, rapid job growth always seems like a great thing, but then it also means less housing. And I know how all these things, like, what do we really want and how do we, how do we think about things holistically for our communities? We need more artist housing. We need more housing. We need more affordable housing for everybody. Um, and that statewide, you know, you, you can say, well, great, there's more affordable housing in provenance. Well, if you live in Wakefield and that's where your social network is, um, you know, you're kind of lost if you have to move to Providence, like folks from other parts of the state don't want to be in the city. Folks from the city don't want to be at other places. So this needs to be everywhere where a small place but it can't be isolated. Absolutely. Um, let's move on. We've got about five minutes or so left sort of looking to the future. There's a, there was a lot of emphasis, not enough emphasis on jobs of the future in this last election and the arts on something that someone told me on this show that I thought was really fascinating, who was great. He was a gubernatorial candidate and he looked at me and he was like, we need artists. And I was expecting, you know, you expect the normal pandering from in this kind of conversation, but it was so authentic as artificial intelligence increases, as the world changes, as we move towards for all these jobs are automated and so on and so forth and as church and so forth. In many ways, uh, decreases its overall impact on society. Artists are actually going to be at the forefront of keeping people's morality in check. Do you agree with that sort of approach and how that, oh, he gets really happy now all of a sudden. But, but I thought that was really fascinating. As you're looking at the tech economy that they want to bring day, you being certain segments of, of leadership want to bring to Rhode Island. Is that another reason why we shove it a vibrant arts community here? Just to keep people reminding of why we're on this earth? I'm not sure I would use
Speaker 6:the morality argument per se. I think artists, um, through their work communicate their own sense of morality, um, but can't take upon their shoulders, the morality of others. Um, uh, but I do think that having creative individuals, artists, uh, musicians, sculptors, what have you, in a community creates an environment where everyone can be energized and work to their full potential, um, were life, can be, uh, a happy experience and where you can look at your life, even if you're not creating work per se, you're part of an environment that, that is creative. You can express satisfaction at the life that you are yourself living as a result of that. That's what community's all about. And artists contribute to communities in a variety of ways, not least of which is the energy that they bring to community life. The intangible. John, your thoughts on that sort of broad issue? What
Speaker 4:I think Randy just said it a lot more eloquently than I, morality is a scary word to throw kind of giant steam, but, um, yeah, I mean, I think that providing that source of inspiration for individuals or that center or that a community function of like in other gathering. Uh, absolutely. I mean, that's, it's already doing that. And I think, you know, that's kind of what we, what I think what everyone's sitting here is do. We know, trying to build that, you know, and let people find their seat and let people find others like them, you know, and not be isolated, sitting, you know, at home looking to artists from morality, I guess. Right? Instagram
Speaker 5:for morality, the morality seeking artists or whatever it is. Your thoughts on that Shauna? Yeah, I definitely think, I mean, um, you know, Randy, you kind of alluded to this, but like what, what makes, you know, and this is where arts and humanities tied together closely. Like what makes the human experience human, you know, what, what is unique about being human and what does that mean? What does community, and I think, um, you know, creativity is a big part of that. And, and again, for Asu 20, that's what we sort of have this notion, all people of creative potential. And that plays out in different ways. You know, there's a lot of people who might say, well, I'm not an artist. Well, you know, what does that mean? What is an artist? And, um, and for us, and this is not the same for all organizations, but we define that pretty broadly. Um, and think that, you know, creative expression is really an essential part of being human and learning how to exist with other humans. And so it's, it's absolutely critical. And at the same time as we look to the future, we'll what again, what is creativity? What is innovation? You know, innovation doesn't exist without creativity. And so, you know, whether it's working with, you know, young kids and figure out how, how does design thinking and creativity start with five year olds so that they are thinking very young, um, in creative ways about how to solve problems. Um, you know, I think of this like hierarchy of needs. And when you have the greatest struggles for the most basic needs, you use creativity to solve your problems. You know, whether their housing or food. Um, if you don't have those things made easy, you need to be a very creative person to solve your problems. And, and learning how to just think that way and feel, um, feel like that's encouraged. And I think that's a, uh, an educational issue. Um, that that is a challenge, you know, nationally. Um, certainly locally, but I think we're really lucky that we have this incredible ecosystem. We have a great stat out State Arts Council, we have great organizations that do that work. Um, I would like to see more of that happen, you know, through the actual education system because I think that's how we, that's how we have a future. I mean, we're a fiscal agent for a Rhode Island virtual reality and that sort of an example of a group that's like really looking in obvious ways at the future and technology and there were like, well, we want to, we need to be aligned with an arts organization. You know, that's what we want as our fiscal sponsor. We don't necessarily want to a tech organization or whatever. Um, so
Speaker 1:finding, just carving it out. I mean, that's really carving out creativity. It's true education. I mean that's a whole, we could do a podcast series on that. You know what I mean? And just the, the fundamental lapse of arts education. I think we're all of the age that we got something, but I know that now my friends who teach in in, I'm in music there part time and they make more money gigging than they do teaching. It's outrageous. Sean Duffy a is two 20 Randy Rosen
Speaker 3:bound the Rhode Island State Council for the arts. Sean Shober, the Columbus Cooperative Columbus Theater, our panel discussion on Rhode Island's arts community. What a great panel. Thanks so much for your time, everybody. Appreciate it. Another one in the book. Stay tuned for the next edition of the Bartholomew town podcast coming straight to you on Tuesday. Until next time, I'm bill Bartholomew. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1:Discover the dozens of conversations I've had on the Bartholomew town podcast with Rhode Island politicians, media members, artists and beyond@bartholomewtowndotcomareipodcast.com or on apple podcasts.