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Series 3, Episode 1 - Rebecca Matthews and Brendan Sleeman. Co-Founders of Wed Magazine: print media in the ‘Destination Wedding’ industry.

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In this first episode of the new series, we hear from Rebecca Matthews and Brendan Sleeman, print media founders that have consistently followed their instincts and never veered from their principles around quality, community and sustainability.

15 years into their journey, we find out how to achieve longevity in an industry that had been written off; how to stay afloat in times of global crisis; and how to separate work life and family life when you marry your co-founder!

Wed Magazine’s success is a lesson in understanding your market, your revenue streams and the community you serve. As Brendan describes it, you have to “ditch the ego” and truly listen to your stake holders, if you want to stay relevant.

Host: Charity Wilson
http://linkedin.com/in/charity-wilson-6502789b

Wed Magazine
https://www.wedmagazine.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/wedmagazineuk

Canopy Community
The place for founders, start ups and entrepreneurs. For more episodes, or to access coaching, events, advice, networks, education and more, visit…
https://linktr.ee/CanopyCommunity





Canopy Community

The place for founders, start ups and entrepreneurs. For more episodes, or to access coaching, events, advice, networks, education and more, visit…

https://linktr.ee/CanopyCommunity



SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Founder Friday podcast brought to you by the Canopy community. I'm your host, Charity Wilson, and each episode I'll be chatting to inspirational company founders and learning from their insights. This Friday, I'm joined by two inspiring co-founders in a notoriously difficult industry. I'll be finding out how they've achieved longevity in the fickle and supposedly dwindling world of publication and how they've navigated their company's journey without veering from their ethics around sourcing, sustainability and supporting their local economy. Enjoy. Let's do it. So, joining me on Founder Friday, I have Rebecca Matthews and Brendan Sleeman, founders of WED Magazine. Hello. How

SPEAKER_00:

you doing?

SPEAKER_01:

Hello. Good. Thank you. Before we get into your journey, your trials, challenges and successes of running a print media company in a digital age, I should mention that I know you both quite well. In fact, Becca, I've known you since we were both 12. I might even be 11 actually. Might be 11 as the, yeah, lanky girls. Early 90s. Early 90s, sort of, poddling around the school grounds together. And Brendan, it feels like I've known you nearly as long, if not longer.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_01:

since I was your bridesmaid, I feel I am entitled to ask this question with love and with no agenda. How on earth do you do it? How do you stay married and run a business and raise children and on the whole look after each other and be such good friends?

SPEAKER_00:

Can I jump in on that? I'm very tolerant.

SPEAKER_01:

My response was going to be it takes a special kind of patience. I'm a very mellow human being. No, we have learned over the years that... to work we work together but we kind of work apart at the same time

SPEAKER_00:

yeah we've both got individual identities and things that we do

SPEAKER_01:

well we've both we've both found that a different environment suits us to work in so we work well together as a team we feel we've got complementary skills um but you you prefer like a bit more of a buzzy environment to work in

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

um so we we found a solution for that brendan now works at the um in a freelance work hub the work box in penzance and i need peace and quiet to write and do my thing so we work separately but obviously we're working together aren't we so

SPEAKER_00:

yeah we do

SPEAKER_01:

come together to like do the odd working day and to do like photo shoots together that kind of thing

SPEAKER_00:

yeah members of a team

SPEAKER_01:

but you do have to be um you do kind of have to be patient don't you

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and definitely not bringing it home with you you know after when you've argued about work you know and then you're at home and And then you're sitting with each other. You have to draw a

SPEAKER_01:

line between home and work. And that's where it's become difficult with the pandemic and things like that, where everything has been at home. And it's really nice. How do you do that? Because lots of people say that, you know, that classic bit of advice for any relationship is don't go to bed on an argument. But for you guys, how do you actually... Do you have a time in the day where it's like, okay, it's gone 6pm, no more work talk? How do you... really sort of delineate.

SPEAKER_00:

I do that a little bit. And then nine o'clock in the morning... comes and i just attack her then i'm

SPEAKER_01:

sorry

SPEAKER_00:

what about this thing so so she's like can i just have a coffee in peace yeah

SPEAKER_01:

well i think we we used to find that really hard i think before we had children i think like we we were completely consumed by the business and it's really hard to find that separation didn't you yeah since the kids have come along they've forced that separation so i feel like there's a much clearer line between work and business um whereas although the nature of the business means i sometimes have to work late at home i try really hard in not to talk too much in that kind of time about work even if I have to work at home sometimes I try not to talk about it

SPEAKER_00:

yeah just go

SPEAKER_01:

every now and then Brendan will start talking at 11 o'clock at night about some amazing idea he's had and I'll be like stop I've just spent the whole night working

SPEAKER_00:

yeah only because I haven't seen you that's why

SPEAKER_01:

but um yeah so children have kind of made that work home life separation easier in a sense

SPEAKER_00:

yeah I think so I think it's uh we're just separate as well you know like you get couples that are sort of clingy and always want to be with each other all the time as well like we've got very individual identities like we love each other and we spend time with each other but we can also be

SPEAKER_01:

independent

SPEAKER_00:

yeah we can also not spend time with each other and enjoy that too you know we'll just go and do our own things yeah being independent as well strong independent people

SPEAKER_01:

and when you are focusing on business there's so much to focus on and What a success story. 15 years coming up to now. It's marking that 15th anniversary of the success of WED Magazine. It's here. It's still going. 16 issues in Cornwall. Holding it up. Amazing. This is the 59th issue, actually. We're waiting for the 60th issue to be delivered. And this is the 50th issue for Devon. And there's a lot of pages in this magazine. I always forget until I pick it up how much is in it and why it takes so long to put together.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe 200 pages, but yeah, 15 years this month. Incredible. And it's such a remarkable feat. Even when you started out 15 years ago, there was so much talk about how print media is on its way out. It's the digital age. You were one of the first... companies to really push it digitally anyway to have the website up and running and for it to be slick and and and look good and you know it was it was beyond comparison with with the other companies that were out there trying to do wedding magazines can you tell us a bit about that journey and how you overcame you know the people kind of so many people saying you know it's a dead industry don't even bother how did it all start and how did you uh well we thought um 15 years ago we kind of we identified a gap in the market for um for like a really kind of like good quality luxury coffee table style wedding magazine but completely dedicated to cornwall and because we could see cornwall's profile was kind of rising nationally and internationally um and the magazine that was existent at the time which was actually a very good magazine wasn't doing anything digitally they didn't even have a website so um we could see that you kind of like just to have like a business that lasted in print media, you needed to really harness both the digital and the print world, didn't you? So, I mean, part of the reason I think we succeeded through those early days was the fact that straight away we had like a really good quality, accessible, comprehensive website that people were using to plan their weddings from all over the country. And that market did find it hard at that point to plan their wedding informal, didn't they? Because there wasn't that, website resource

SPEAKER_00:

for me it was a smartphone invention in 2007 when i got one um i then realized that people would be googling everything or access to the internet would be so much more accessible than it was previously before you had to go to a pc sit down in your room you know and connect etc and this one would just you know i'd be in a pub like googling stuff and showing people things and then i realized right the world's going to go mad on this pretty much And then, yeah, the invention of that. I think,

SPEAKER_01:

and the fact that, and that's not to, to belittle the importance of the print product it's the fact that they both worked hand in hand that was really important to us because we're big believers in the power of print and now it's really interesting 15 years on seeing the new generation that are coming through in their 20s getting married and early 30s they're so happy to see a magazine and it's actually quite sad to see the decline of so many wedding titles the feedback we get is they love to switch off from technology and flick through an actual print product and take pictures out and use it as their kind of planning resource. Well, yeah, we were kids of the 90s, weren't we? So we would spend time in Smith's looking through the magazines. That's not something that people do anymore. So actually having a print product is... It's weird. It's quite exciting for them. And also with the feedback we're getting is that they go to like supermarkets and they're just, they're quite sad to see like the lack of choice because it's so hard to run a magazine these days. But, you know, we've always been big, big believers in the power of print, haven't

SPEAKER_00:

we? Yeah, no, print's cool. Definitely in this industry, in the wedding industry, I think people still want to read magazines. Maybe in other industries, people skim through stuff. It's the

SPEAKER_01:

fact that we're so dedicated that I think it's definitely obviously made it a success. It's dedicated to people getting married so that they're in the market for a short time but it's also dedicated to a geographical location so we've got one that's completely dedicated to cornwall one that's completely dedicated to devon it's all about the niche don't you think

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and we are a good resource for that pretty much as well and i don't know any bride like i said that wouldn't read a wedding magazine you're in it for such a finite period of time you know to plan your wedding you're going to consume as much information as you possibly can and the format which you consume it in If it's novel and niche, which magazines are now, and it looks really good, it's going to be impressive. It's going to be a new thing for people as well. And actually, weirdly now, magazines are far more receptive than they ever have been because they're rare. So when people pick up a magazine and look at one and it's really good, people are just so impressed now, especially the younger generation, because they don't see them that often.

SPEAKER_01:

And it is good. You've both been really particular right from the outset about the look and feel of haven't you the aesthetic of it overall has always been really important to both of you you've never compromised no that kept us poor as well didn't it for a long time because the prints our original print prices were extortionate but we didn't want to compromise on the quality and it paid off in dividends because we you know we had the right brands came to us the right venues um and even now people pick it up and they go you know they go oh didn't they they just love the way it feels and i think there's a lot to be said for that as well as obviously making sure like the content's great as well

SPEAKER_00:

it's a full-on magazine isn't it and even during covid you know when you're trying to save costs and advertising was going down you know the idea of you know cutting back on paper quality sort

SPEAKER_01:

of print

SPEAKER_00:

no we didn't do that there's no way i'm doing that you know because it's just defeating the object of what you're trying to achieve really

SPEAKER_01:

having that strong sense of aesthetics sticking to those principles has been then part of the the the success do you think that's that's contributed to you know maintaining quality has been has been worth it the sacrifices that you've had to make on that front

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we're in such a quality industry anyway, where there's thousands and tens of thousands of pounds being banded around per wedding, that Cornwall needs a quality publication. I think we'd represent Cornwall or Devon in a way where it's crap. We always wanted it

SPEAKER_01:

to be the best possible showcase of the industry down here, because the industry's brilliant. It's full of brilliant people and beautiful venues, and it deserves it. But we wouldn't ever want to do anything that we didn't feel was... great quality either. It's never been about the money for us. I always say to Brendan, I still feel like the geek at school that just wants to get the top marks for her homework. It's always been about doing our best, isn't it? Doing our best for the industry, putting the best possible product we can out there. So I do think that's come through. And, you know, and that's why we've got part of the reason we've got a loyal advertiser base. And obviously because it works for people, you know, we know it works for people because we're lucky, but because we have explored the digital avenue as much as the print avenue, we can actually present our advertisers with figures, you know, about click-throughs and how many inquiries they've received, that kind of thing as well. So it works on both. You've got the hard data to back it up as well, which is an analytical approach.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, which is basically quantifying advertising and everything else, which is what people want these days. So we've got analytics, Google Analytics sort that out. And like I said, page one, if not top of Google for everything that you need for wedding search terms.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that a skill that you've developed during this, Brendan? Because I know that's very much kind of your part of your role, not just the sales, but the analytics kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, completely. I went into all this blind. I went into the whole thing as a salesperson. You know, I never went into it. This is a magazine owner, a website creator, an SEO expert.

SPEAKER_01:

No, you're a Google Analytics geek, aren't

SPEAKER_00:

you? Yeah, pretty much. Even within design, I design people's adverts, have done for years. I had to learn that pretty quickly because we never had the money to outsource that. So I had to learn all these new skills. And I had time to practice them as well because money was always on the line for people. So I had to get good really quickly to make money. So I spent a lot of time doing that and a lot of time researching it.

SPEAKER_01:

And how do you balance the need to develop your own skills and those times where actually it's just time critical? You perhaps can't invest the next week or month or six months in getting really good at new technology and you can outsource using places like Fiverr to just go straight to somebody who's got those skills. How do you make that decision about that? I'll outsource or I'll learn it myself.

SPEAKER_00:

For me, it's just a feeling of like, what have I got to do? What's my workload like? And I can find people on Fiverr. I have people that do video editing. And sometimes there's a point where with video editing, especially. You've

SPEAKER_01:

got to work out when it's worth your time. That's the thing, because you've got to balance things out with your workload and work out how your time is best spent. especially when it's limited. I think with the pandemic, I think that was kind of like a weird shift where we had to kind of go back and work out what we could do ourselves. And we did bring a little bit more stuff in-house. And now we're at that situation where we're going back into where we were three years ago, aren't we? Where we're able to outsource a little bit more, which is great because it's really important to bring as many skills to the table as you can and not try and do everything yourself. We like to get as many kind of creative people involved as we can, for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

If you've got the money, outsource it, you know, fine, you know, and you can do that, then great. If you haven't got the money, don't outsource it, pretty much. I mean, that's, this is, try and learn it yourself, you know. There was a few times when you

SPEAKER_01:

had to work out, actually, my time is better spent, you know, trying to sell advertising and trying to, like, work on this SEO, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it was, but I was forced in that position where I had to learn that because, A, we didn't have the money to get into it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, in the really early days,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. And I had to get the ads done or run you know, the deadlines were coming up. So I had to really just learn it very quickly.

SPEAKER_01:

I think there are a lot of people that are struggling with that balance. When you are a new startup, you've got a great idea. You're having to learn so many skills so fast. And it's knowing, you know, how to prioritize your time, how to value your time. Because if you actually think about how many hours you work for nothing, it's terrifying, isn't it? And you both held... sort of day jobs when you started this. Was there a point when you thought, okay, I can jump away from the day job now and I can invest myself fully in the company because that's that's quite a scary moment usually but was that challenging or or was that an easy leap for you yeah well it was a bit i mean the early days we were both holding down day jobs and running two other businesses together which looking back it was absolute madness and i wouldn't advise anybody to do that because we were completely exhausted and also um i think there's a lot to be said about like working without which business um you're gonna you know focus all your efforts in and obviously um wed was the one that we chose

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

um but it was um it was really hard to work out where that line came in about right you know when you do literally like cast out and say this is it we're going to put all of our time and energy into this and take that risk financially I guess we were lucky because we were young when we got to that point we didn't have many responsibilities so it was it was a good time to kind of take risks in life um I'd be probably much more nervous about doing it at my age now um but um Yeah, it was scary, but I think we were quite, we were so determined, weren't we?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, kind of. So

SPEAKER_01:

determined and also willing to work every hour it took to make it succeed. Yeah. You know, neither of us are scared of hard work and you can't be scared of hard work if you want to run your own business.

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_01:

And I remember regularly working seven days a week. Yeah. Yeah. And long hours. Long, long hours. And you're coming up to, and still now when you come up to a print deadline.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But

SPEAKER_00:

it was exciting though as well at the same time. It was exciting. It didn't feel like work, but it was work.

SPEAKER_01:

Does

SPEAKER_00:

that make sense?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we did get a real buzz out of the startup and meeting new people and going out and getting advertising deals. And obviously we're lucky because the nature of the business is that it's really diverse. So one day you could find yourself... you know, the meeting with a marketing manager, the next day you're on a photo shoot, the next day you're writing up a review. It was never boring, was it? No. The next day you're on Hotel Inspector. Ah, the Hotel Inspector, yeah, did a few turns on the old TV. Our favourite was always the food shoots. We used to do food shoots regularly, didn't we? Yeah, it was cool. We used to go and hang out in the chef's kitchen and eat lots of food. Nice. So, yeah, so that's the thing. It never felt like... hard work in that sense especially when we'd done like really like I guess monotonous jobs to get in the situation to start up the business um that was kind of our point of comparison wasn't it

SPEAKER_00:

yeah completely you know and the photographer there's a really good photographer used to well you still do shoots with you know and he always says like

SPEAKER_01:

uh

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not saving lives, you know. He goes, this isn't hard. You know, he's just taking shots of photography. He's a bloody good photographer.

SPEAKER_01:

But we're really lucky. Just see yourselves as really lucky to be able to call this work. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it's, you know, it is one of those brain taxing jobs, I'd say for sure. Becca's worse than me, you know, because she's got to fiddle around with credits and words and content and all that stuff. For me, it's just client management at the minute. So I'm pretty...

SPEAKER_01:

like

SPEAKER_00:

that don't you yeah yeah which is basically

SPEAKER_01:

that in itself is quite challenging you touched on this um a couple of times in this conversation so on the on the one hand you've got you're in a sector yeah well you know arguably people are always going to want to get married so that's great you know you've got the readers you've got you've got the the the drive behind it if you like

SPEAKER_00:

you've got the traffic we've got the

SPEAKER_01:

volume yeah absolutely but you're reliant on advertising

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah that's the that's the that's the

SPEAKER_01:

uh

SPEAKER_00:

the rubbish thing about it. It's like, that's the worst thing about it. I know, but that's like, that's the linchpin in the whole business, isn't it? You know, if advertising goes down, it doesn't matter how good your product is or everything else, you know, the revenue dries up, you're gone, you're finished, you know, national magazines that have been amazing, brilliant, advertising revenue dried up, gone, finished. No, that's the end of it. It doesn't matter how good your business is in any media or publishing, even digital media, you know, if Facebook's advertising dries up, That's the end of Facebook. If revenue's gone, see you later.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Pretty much. It doesn't matter how good it is. But that's why

SPEAKER_01:

we've always worked really hard to make sure that the advertising works for people. That's what our business depends on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's why digital works really... You put all your energy into the digital side of things.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I put all my energy into the print side of things. And together... They seem to work.

SPEAKER_00:

And we make a real, real effort for the advertisers too. You know, we give them everything pretty much. To the point where people say that you should be charging for this and that. It's all part of the package.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we just try to do our best with people. We always have, haven't we? And had a good relationship with everybody. And how have you coped with that? When you've come to a crunch point, for example, during the pandemic, but I know having spoken to you on lots of previous occasions, There have been times when small companies, and obviously a good deal of your advertisers will be small companies, small businesses have been really pinched. And that has a knock-on effect with you guys. And maybe they need to defer their payments or they need to take a couple of months without advertising. How have you managed to deal with that? Because those must have been some really tough times.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, obviously the recent example of that was obviously as soon as like we went into the first lockdown and we had a flurry of people that obviously were getting really worried about finance. And obviously the events industry was one of the worst hit industries. So from the start, we took it like we didn't put any pressure on people. We let people pay when they could effectively sort out payment plans. I think what's helped us through those more difficult times is the fact that we've always felt kept quite a lean business haven't we

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah um you know we've always kept our overheads as low as we can obviously we can't compromise on certain things um but in terms we haven't got a fancy office we haven't got like lots of unnecessary costs um everyone we're a small team but everyone works really hard within that small team so um that carried us through when other magazines that might have had the fancy office or a huge you know a huge team of different editors they would have struggled so um But we've always found it really important to have that personable approach with our advertisers as well. So we had to, you know, it wasn't just kind of a blanket, this is what we expect. It's kind of like trying to do our best for each person as we can and completely understand when people are in a situation and it's not feasible for them to pay their bills as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it was dodgy though. It was definitely

SPEAKER_01:

dodgy. Yeah, it's always, it's really hard. It's always hard because obviously we've got our bills to pay as well. But yeah. Luckily, we've never been in that situation where it's felt like it's all going to go under, have we?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, completely. And

SPEAKER_01:

also, I guess during the pandemic... we had to make a decision. Do we keep publishing or not? And actually, the best thing we could have done was to keep publishing because everyone was at home and really receptive to everything we were doing, both digitally and in print. So we recorded our best web traffic ever, our best print sales ever, because we felt people wanted something positive to focus on. And WEDS could be part of that, something positive to focus on, especially, you know, there was lots of flurry of engagements during that first lockdown, as we saw. And we set up a helpline, actually, for anyone that was struggling, both internally in both couples and in the wedding industry just people that needed a chat so lovely Lucy that works for us was just chatting to people all day wasn't she and just trying to be like a friendly voice at the end of the phone so yeah so that was a worrying moment that first week of the pandemic but I feel like we can look back now and think yeah we're glad we handled it the way we did it was scary because we didn't know if anyone would be able to pay their bills when that issue came out the first issue in whatever it was May 2020 but they did and we're still here. It feels like a big part of your success is that focus on people, that you're not just serving your customers, you're looking after the people who are advertising, you're looking after the whole wedding community or very much being part of it, if not leading it in many ways.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Would you say that that's a lesson for other people? Definitely. I think we always said from the start that part of the reason that WED got off the ground was because we took a personal approach. We got on the road, didn't we, and just met people face-to-face. Yeah. It wasn't a faceless new business setting up from far away. It was literally a couple of people in Penzance that just want to create a successful business that showcases the wedding industry in the best possible light. That seagull was perfectly on cue when you said impendence. Couldn't be more coastal. No, we couldn't. We just need a

SPEAKER_00:

view of the sea. But you're still dealing with the owners of the magazine too, which is funny. When I rock up to a sales meeting or something and I speak to whoever's in charge and they want to see me and then they ask my position in the company and I say, oh, the owner. And they're like, oh... And then they get the better biscuits out then, you know, and the nicer cup of tea. But it's funny. It's just weird, you know. They don't expect me to turn up. They expect a sales guy to turn up and just be on the payroll. And then I just speak to them, you know, like a...

SPEAKER_01:

Are they surprised when they learn it's quite a small team?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it looks way bigger than it is, you know. It looks way bigger than it is. Do

SPEAKER_01:

you think that's important?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's like... People always used to say that years ago, you know, go to a limited company because it makes you look bigger than what it is and just gives you that idea of how big you are. But for me, it wasn't important. It's not important at all. That's an egotistical thing. And we dropped the ego years ago. I

SPEAKER_01:

don't think I've ever had it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you may not. We are what we are, you know, and it's the lean team. You know, it's the reason why we still do our work. You know, I'm a director of a company. becca's the director of a company but i'm also the sales guy and yeah you do a bit of everything

SPEAKER_01:

that's the thing and we have from the start you have to like learn how to be like the marketing person the distribution person the content creator the picture editor you know had to learn some design skills had to like be the seo expert i mean that's the early days you do is you know it's just like we go back to the whole idea but where do you draw the line about when when is the time to delegate those skills and there's certain things like from the start that we we knew that wasn't going to be our forte and we had to um we had to get an expert in like from a graphic designer and things like that a web a web guy that kind of thing

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah definitely

SPEAKER_01:

um but we just but when it was jobs that we felt like we were capable of and we needed just to like kind of sport up on we tried to do that ourselves didn't

SPEAKER_00:

we yeah certain things you could do and have certain things you couldn't you know so we made that decision quickly and then allocated the money and the funds. And that was the way it went, really, pretty much, wasn't

SPEAKER_01:

it? Yeah, we even had a little foray into events in the middle of it all, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we did. We ran a few

SPEAKER_01:

wedding shows,

SPEAKER_00:

five years of good events.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then stopped. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we like to try new things. We like a challenge. So what do you think, thinking about new things, what do you think the future holds for WED or for your sort of Is there going to be a family of publications?

SPEAKER_00:

No, this is it. This is as big as it gets. There's a possibility. I don't know. We could combine a Devon and Somerset magazine, you know, and venture into that. But, um, I don't know. We're at a point now. We're just happy with the business. It's fine. You know, it's manageable. Uh, I think a lot of people

SPEAKER_01:

enjoy running it. We really enjoy it. Um, I mean, obviously, we never say never. We might look to expanding it at some point. But at the moment, I think we just kind of live in life a day at a time. And our kind of challenge every day is to get it out there, expand its reach, make sure we're engaging with the right people, the right couples, the right businesses. Yeah. I guess, yeah, that's it. We haven't got any grand plans for the future, have we?

SPEAKER_00:

No. To be honest,

SPEAKER_01:

we never dreamed we'd be here 15 years later.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it's fine. We're

SPEAKER_01:

delighted that we are.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and like I said, it's a manageable-sized business. It's always that chase for growth, which I've seen so many businesses over the years chasing growth, and then they've ended up not having a business because they've expanded far too fast, too quickly. And then when tough times came, their overheads were too big, and they crashed down. All of our competitors are broken and not here anymore. are purely on that level. They've, they've chased growth too quickly. And we've always kept it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And also for us, it's always been about kind of like, um, we're now in a situation where the business fits really well with our lifestyle as well, you know? So it kind of, um, we get to lead the life we want in Cornwall and run the business.

SPEAKER_00:

Um,

SPEAKER_01:

so any expansion plans, we'd have to be carefully kind of considered, wouldn't they? Anything that would risk that. Um, yeah, I think, um, I mean, you've always had little moments where you're like, we need to do this, we need to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but that's, again, it's checking the ego. So you go and check, you know, that's pretty much it. You want to be this and that all the time of, you know, successful to who, to what, you know. We just want

SPEAKER_01:

to keep, you know, improving the magazine as best we can. Yeah. Make it the best product. Keep, you know, keep the quality as it is. Do more creative things.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, the weddings that we're getting now, the standard of work down here is so brilliant in Devon and Cornwall in the industry with the photographers and the florists and the cake designers. And we kind of just want to, you know, keep doing all those people justice. And from the start part of that, the idea behind web was to make sure that people, um, present the best showcase of what people do down here so that people aren't just bringing supplies from outside all the time just to kind of shout about how good Cornwall and Devon is as beautiful counties but as places to source brilliant supplies as well so that's been kind of our challenge and we feel like we need to you know keep that in mind for the future yeah

SPEAKER_00:

pretty much

SPEAKER_01:

keep showcasing how brilliant still work to be done on that front do you think yeah we just want to keep moving with the times I guess and keep like you know bettering bettering the product

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you can't do that if you're chasing growth in another county. You've got to work on what you've currently got. And what we've currently got does work. If we just manage it and maintain it like this, it could be, well, it will be fine. It's been 15 years. It could be another 15 years. We just move with the times. I

SPEAKER_01:

know that you've both, you've talked about how you're guided by your principles, your ethics. As far as sustainability goes, obviously there's the sustainability of the company itself, which is remarkable, 15 years and still at the top of what you do and still creating really high quality publications. But as far as environmental impact, what steps have you taken in order to promote that within your company? Well, from the start, we actually paid over the odds for the product, for the actual print job, because we wanted to keep it in Cornwall. I remember we were getting lots of emails from print companies in China. Do you remember that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

All over the country. All over the world. All over the

SPEAKER_01:

country, but all over the world. And we could have had it printed so much cheaper elsewhere, but it was really important for us that... that we were using a local company, that things weren't being transported too far, but also we wanted to support the local economy as well, which was the idea behind getting local writers and illustrators and designers and photographers involved. But we also, all of the magazines are printed on FSC accredited paper with vegetable inks, and they're printed at Daltor in Saltash, which has got some great eco-credentials now. Do you think that your readers and people in your business community, do you think they're aware enough of those kind of eco-credentials? No, we don't really shout about those things.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we should do. They don't ask either. No, that is

SPEAKER_01:

something we do need to kind of make clearer. That's the way that obviously businesses have become much more transparent and open with their ethics in recent years. And that's something that we... we haven't really talked about much actually about, you know, all those things where, you know, in the past it's cost us a lot more money to do certain things, but it's obviously worth it. Um, it's really important. So, um, yeah, there's certain things that we need to, um, probably just make it a little bit more clear to people.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Now I said that in the contents page before, just put a little piece in there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Vegetable link sustainability, you know, we're on top of that. It's pretty cool. Um, but people aren't as, uh, forthcoming as you see they don't ask that much weirdly you know they'll take the magazine they'll buy the magazine they'll a wedding show no one really comes up and says how sustainable is this magazine

SPEAKER_01:

yeah and wouldn't it be it wouldn't it be great to let them know because it's it's such an amazing thing not only are you you know not only are you sort of championing the print industry but you're supporting Cornwall and other Cornwall businesses and you're you know you're focusing on as much sustainability as possible. These are such incredible things that you're doing that perhaps you don't shout about. And again, the two of you have created something amazing that has longevity. And so many of the answers to today's questions have been about how you sort of had a gut feeling feeling about it you followed your instincts and that in itself is is remarkable i think a lot of people don't have um or don't follow their instincts and perhaps end up you know like you say scaling up too soon those kind of things and and things go past yeah it

SPEAKER_00:

depends on your priority of what you want what you want to achieve really what are you in business for that's the question that's pretty much the uh you know normally it's the drive for money or success, which is the things that people go into those things for. You know, so just be honest with yourself and ask the reasons why you're doing these things. And for us, it was genuinely, I think, to help an industry out, which I saw wasn't, you know, as best as it could be. And it's weird that I look back on that and kind of think... We just felt like it

SPEAKER_01:

wasn't shared in the way it could be to the people outside, especially people outside of the county, which is a huge part of... a huge number of people getting married down here obviously don't live down here so we felt like those people weren't being communicated to very well that was part of our original thought for it all

SPEAKER_00:

yeah we just felt we could do a better job than what was currently available and that was it really and of course you know we made money as well that's great you know without money we wouldn't be here but

SPEAKER_01:

yeah it just felt like a I don't know. Like I said, it was never really driven by money, but obviously we needed to make money to live. But at some points it felt like a nice little bonus, the fact that we got paid for it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_01:

Because we enjoyed it so much, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it did. It felt like at the end of the year, like, oh, I've got some money. I'm not crying. You know, it was brilliant. Really good.

SPEAKER_01:

It was hard in those first few years, for sure. But yeah, it sometimes is a nice surprise that you think, oh, I get paid to do this. This is brilliant.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't think we took any money for a few years. I think we took like a real basic salary under that as well. We lived with Becca's parents and stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of big beans.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, just whatever it was.

SPEAKER_01:

Those heavy days.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's just the naivety of youth sort of started the business. You know, now I wouldn't do all that. It's weird.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you wouldn't want to be...

SPEAKER_00:

I wouldn't want to do that again. At this age, it's tough. It's real tough to start a business in your 40s, I would say, because you've got to, you know, that's... back to basics you know where you're going to get especially people leaving well if people are leaving salaries you know the decent jobs and stuff to start a business that must be so hard because you're just starting from nothing you know your money your income straight away is completely slashed your overheads have to be quite minimal to start a business you've got to

SPEAKER_01:

be really passionate haven't you to chase that dream at that point and you know we say chase that dream but obviously you guys have very much made it a reality yeah well I think um it's anything is possible for sure like I think you've just got to be willing to work really hard and like I say if you love what you do then it doesn't feel like work anyway so I say go for it it feels like you very much answered my my final question to the pair of you which is you know if you've got any advice that you would share with anyone else who's thinking of starting something, either in print media or in any kind of sector?

SPEAKER_00:

Print's exceptionally hard. I say it's hard. I'll probably stay away from print completely, if I'm honest with you.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I don't do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's one of those things where like...

SPEAKER_01:

No, I'd say if you've got

SPEAKER_00:

the right niche... You've got to be really good. If

SPEAKER_01:

you've got the right niche and you've really thought through your market and your readership and where your advertising revenue is coming from, then go for it. I'd say that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But don't go into it with like, oh, I've got this amazing idea for a product and you haven't thought about the advertising revenue. It's got to start with the advertising revenue. Like, how are you going to fund this? Because you've seen those magazines come and go, haven't you? Those coffee table magazines for

SPEAKER_00:

a couple of issues and then go. Yeah, usually a lifestyle magazine of Cornwall, some surfing thing or something. And then they realize that there's no income. know there's no surf shop there's nothing to sort of back that up and they get a funding or a grant from for a year and they last four or five issues and it looks great it looks brilliant but when it comes down to actually revenue they didn't factor that in the business at all so unless

SPEAKER_01:

unless you're really sure about that don't chase print media

SPEAKER_00:

yeah well i'd say that for most businesses you've done your

SPEAKER_01:

research that's fine do your research first and really you know, have a really close look at where that revenue is going to come from and whether it's realistic to get that revenue to make that product sustainable.

SPEAKER_00:

But then

SPEAKER_01:

beyond that, I say just, yeah, just, it's just like hard work, meet the right people. I think, I do know, I think the most important thing I've learned is all about getting the right team together as well. And it's amazing how sometimes the right people fall into your path at the right time. And I think it's making the most of those connections.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then marry some of those team members. Well, maybe. Yeah, we'll

SPEAKER_00:

happily marry. What are we, 10 years now? That's good.

SPEAKER_01:

10 years. And have great patience if you do end up working with your husband.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and wife. Same thing. Completely.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you both so much for spending time with me on Founder Friday. It was fantastic to hear all about you both and web magazine and um i look forward to sharing this with the community so thank you both guys and well done on all your successes

SPEAKER_00:

good thanks take it easy nice

SPEAKER_01:

to see you thanks for listening to hear more from other inspiring entrepreneurs or to learn about the canopy community and how it can help you to grow your business visit linktree forward slash canopy community

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

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Stewart Noakes

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