How A Former Federal Agent Rebuilt His Life, Income, And Brotherhood After Burnout with George T. Gammon

We trace a path from Federal Air Marshal to entrepreneur, exploring faith, brotherhood and the hard work of rebuilding identity and income after burnout. We talk about men’s mental health, multiple streams of income, and why mentorship and family are the real wealth.

• early lessons from being bullied, football captaincy and work ethic
• air marshal service as purpose, training and community
• corporate shock, backstabbing cultures and remote burnout
• faith-driven surrender and finding tribe beyond the badge
• Caveman Combine as team grit, vulnerability and prayer
• why residual income matters more than a title
• mentorship as strategy, network and service
• reframing self-worth, failure and daily discipline
• veterans, stigma, the VA and real intervention
• legacy as raising strong, compassionate daughters

Stay tuned, stay focused, and stay motivated. Warriors, fall out

Chapters

• 0:00 Opening And Guest Introduction
• 3:32 Upbringing And Early Work Ethic
• 5:56 College Football Lessons And Maturity
• 11:16 Family Service And Brother’s Combat Tours
• 16:26 Air Marshal Career And Purpose
• 19:41 Parents’ Service And Post-9/11 Impact
• 21:51 Medical Retirement And Uncertain Next Steps
• 24:06 Corporate Shock And Cutthroat Culture
• 27:56 Building Multiple Streams Of Income
• 31:56 Faith, Surrender, And Mental Health
• 36:26 Brotherhood, Men’s Groups, And Support
• 40:16 Caveman Combine: Grit And Teamwork
• 46:56 Why Residual Income Matters
• 50:16 Mentorship, Networks, And Integrity
• 54:36 Finding Meaning In Work And Family
• 59:16 Self-Worth, Failure, And Perspective
• 1:05:16 Service, Identity, And Quiet Pride
• 1:08:46 CEO Burnout And Soul Fulfillment
• 1:13:16 Giving Back And Community Protection
• 1:18:16 Legacy, Daughters, And Independent Thinking
• 1:23:36 Hard Childhood, Father’s Struggles, Intervention

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:57

Warriors fall in. It's time for formation. Today, folks, I have a guest who I actually used to work for once upon a time. And today he is running several different streams of income. He's a businessman. He's pivoted so much, 180 degrees, going from a federal law enforcement officer, government worker, to now running his own businesses and working with multiple CEOs. So I'd like to introduce you to none other than the great Floridian George Gammon. Thank you, sir, for joining me today.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

Nah, thanks for having me, brother.

SPEAKER_03: 1:33

Oh man, honestly, the uh the honor is all mine because um I had the opportunity to work for you a few years ago and uh and work with you, and I gotta say, by far, you were definitely top three most motivated individuals I've ever worked with in my entire life. Um and I didn't know a lot of times what would drive you to get things done. Um I've been very blessed throughout my life to work with folks like you, and I'm not just kissing your ass because you're sitting in front of me right now, but the one thing that I really enjoyed about your leadership was you understood that each individual person needed different types of mentoring and supervision, and I really appreciated that about you the most. Um and I knew that when you made your career transition into the civilian sector that you were gonna pivot and you were gonna be real successful. So can you talk a little bit about your background and where you came from originally?

SPEAKER_02: 2:36

Uh yeah, um grew up in Florida, born and raised, uh, Tampa, went to college, graduated from the University of South Florida, and then jumped pretty much right into the air marshal service. A lot of that came because of connections from my family. I grew up in a military family. Mom's military, dad's family, or military, my brother's military, Marine Corps, or uh Air Force, Coast Guard, you know, the whole works. And uh I had considered going in to the military um through like an ICS program or like uh the uh what do they call it, the uh officer Canada School programs or something while I was in college. But my mom had a reserve guy that worked for her who knew about the air marshals. And he was telling me all about the air marshals, and so I was like, that sounds like a great job. And the more I looked into what being an air marshal was, I was like, what is an air marshal? Like I can't find anything about it. It was kind of super secret, and so I knew that's what I wanted to do and made it happen. Um started in Miami and then just bounced all around DC from DC to LA where I worked with you and began my transition out.

SPEAKER_03: 3:41

I come in. So that was your first job coming out of college? Your first job.

SPEAKER_02: 3:45

That was my first my real yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_03: 3:48

Yep. So where did the work ethic come from?

SPEAKER_02: 3:52

I I mean, I feel like I always kind of had it. So like I'll go back to as a kid, I guess. Like I was a kind of a bullied kid, right? And like I was always kind of a heavier kid, so people made fun of me, and like I had to work harder to overcome those like internal struggles, my own like feeling of self-worth and trying to overcompensate. So like I remember when I got into high school, I told myself I'll be captain of the football team. And nobody believed me. But I did it. I worked my ass off. I became the strongest, I became the best, I became one of the leaders, and I became captain of the football team. You know, got first team all conference, honorable mention, all like all these, you know, scholarship offers and stuff, and I think that's what really did it for me is this internal drive. And then my parents are hard-working, driven folks. I had good role models, but it's mostly for me. And uh and then I became to the point like I think it's more of like that's who I became. I just I thrived when I worked hard. I could see the results. If I just sit back and let things happen and just ask for it to be handed to me, it's not gonna be given to me. I had to take it.

SPEAKER_03: 5:02

Right. So combination of being raised right and sports, and from my understanding from our past conversations, you also got an opportunity to play college football, right?

SPEAKER_02: 5:13

I did play a little bit of college football, yeah, man. It was it was pretty cool. I started a small D D three school up in Wisconsin, got to start there, um, and then transitioned to USF later on, but that didn't work out for me. But it was still fun, man. It was a good opportunity, great, great opportunity to be able to play at the collegiate level.

SPEAKER_03: 5:30

What was it like going to that new level? D3 to D1. Fast.

SPEAKER_02: 5:36

So just even the tryout was faster. Everybody's faster, everybody's stronger. It's just different. And it just was a whole another level. Looking back, maybe I should have stayed at the JUCO level if I wanted to play football.

SPEAKER_03: 5:51

Yeah, but who wants to live in Wisconsin? Who wants to live in Wisconsin though?

SPEAKER_02: 5:56

Nah. It was it was cool the experience, but I I'll never go back there. It's too cold for me.

SPEAKER_03: 6:03

Shoot, I remember on a smaller scale, my freshman year, when I got in on a couple of varsity plays, and they actually gave me the ball on one of the plays, and I remember it was over in like a blink of an eye, and I was like, wow, that was fast. And that's varsity. I can't even imagine D1, like you're working with all these guys that are like the top of the top and the cream of the crop of their own states and everything.

SPEAKER_02: 6:26

I never got to do any game time at that level. I got game time at the D3 level. And even there it was faster. I mean, these kids, most of these college kids, like at the even to the D3 level, could be D1 athletes. And you see it today where some of these kids will go start a JUCO and now they're you know Heisman trophy candidates and they're getting their opportunities. It's just they hustled and they grinded and they didn't give up. I did slack a little bit when I transitioned to USF. I joined the Greek life, got kind of into the the Greek life a little bit, a little harder than I probably should have, and that was more fun than working my butt off. So I kinda I stopped. My work ethic kind of backed off for a little bit there for about two or three years in college.

SPEAKER_03: 7:17

Well, what's to be expected when you're young and you're living in South Florida, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 7:22

It was it was a great time. I'm not gonna go into those details, but Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 7:27

That's yeah, that's for another like another like R-rated or worse time. But um, I'm originally from Hawaii and I could never imagine putting myself in a tropical environment and thinking that I'm actually gonna attend class. So just for you to have the motivation and the mindset and the maturity to just show up and you eventually graduated from USF, right?

SPEAKER_02: 7:48

I did. Yeah. Yeah. Graduated from USF in 09. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 7:54

And your brother, you have a younger brother, right?

SPEAKER_02: 7:57

I do. He's a couple years younger than me. And he took a different path, right? Completely different path. Um, he didn't like school at all. He was kind of a troubled kid. Um just met the wrong crowd early in life, uh, and then got in a little bit of trouble and decided he was going to become a Marine. Straight into the Marine Corps infantry. O311, right in and straight to combat as a young man. You know, did two tours, I believe, injured a couple times. Um they're working on his purple heart paperwork now, finally. He finally was able to track down a witness for that. So they're getting that finally taken care of.

SPEAKER_03: 8:36

Is he uh Iraq or Afghanistan?

SPEAKER_02: 8:39

He was Afghanistan.

SPEAKER_03: 8:41

Afghanistan, yeah. Uh completely two different war fronts, man. And whenever I talked to people, because I was in Iraq, but whenever I talked to folks that were in Afghanistan, uh, there was really not a lot of hardballs, not a lot of, I mean, roads, black top roads, there wasn't a whole lot of uh buildings. It was a really kind of a third a real third world country in a sense. And uh the a lot of the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans are completely different as far as their experiences go and what they had to do when they were over there. So while he was in Iraq or Afghanistan Afghanistan, Afghanistan, you were probably in college around that time, right?

SPEAKER_02: 9:18

Right. While he was getting shot at, I was partying with sorority girls.

SPEAKER_03: 9:22

Two different worlds.

SPEAKER_02: 9:24

Doing keg parties and you know, not even thinking about what he was going through at the same exact moments.

SPEAKER_03: 9:31

How was that for you though? How was that for you when he was deployed?

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

Um I always knew he was kind of a tough kid. Uh we we hit we bumped heads a lot early because I felt like he should have let led by like I should I was trying to lead by example and guide him and like show him the way and he didn't want to listen to it. He did everything the opposite of me. If I did football, he's like, no, I don't want nothing to do with that. Like completely just separated everything that I was. And we just didn't get along much um in our younger years when testosterone kicked in. And then uh later, though, we started to really re-come around after his injury. Um he got injured in Afghanistan, ejected from a turret, and I guess did three months or so in Germany for rehabilitation. And when they originally called, they just said, you know, you're you're well, they told my mother, your son's been injured, he's being medevaced out or something, he's gonna be in Germany, and that's all I told her. She had no idea how bad or what the circumstances were, and that's when it kind of hit me. I just lost my little brother, right? And I didn't get a chance to like tell him, you know, I'm proud of him. Because he he actually did it. He became a Marine. And when I saw him graduate from boot camp, I was like, wow, this he did it. I didn't think he would. He never finished anything. It's just not the kind of kid he was. Like he did everything, he was great at everything, but he half asked it. But he was a great Marine. He was an excellent Marine. Excellent. Um he he just changed. He the military changed him into a better person. There were a lot of hard lessons learned, but it turned him into a man. And that's when we became you know close again.

SPEAKER_03: 11:05

Wow, and I'm blessed.

SPEAKER_02: 11:06

I'm blessed that he didn't die, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 11:08

It's yeah, that's the reality of it all. I mean, two two different realities, right? So when I came back from Iraq in 04, um, I would talk to just everyone that was sitting sitting back here, and they were talking about vacations, Cancun. I did this, I did that, and like for the last year, I was serving in Iraq, um, dodging bullets, IEDs, and everything like that. So it's you come back to a to a world that's literally has carried on without you in a sense. And it's kind of humbling in a in a way that he had that event happen to him and it drew you guys closer, even though your entire lives you kind of were at each other's throats like two brothers typically would be, right? You can't imagine what your parents went through having to deal with both of you. I'm sure there's a lot of uh belt whoopens that went around the house growing up. A lot of a lot of doors that had to be replaced, a lot of holes in walls. We learned how to patch drywall pretty quick. And you and you and your brother are probably about 6'1, 6'2, uh freaking you guys are monsters, man, so I can imagine the damage y'all did do.

SPEAKER_02: 12:09

He's playing in about 240 solid. I'm I'm pushing like 270, 280. Dang, yeah. And you're a strong dude.

SPEAKER_03: 12:17

There were some battles. I I yeah, I've seen you lift before. You're a pretty strong dude. I know your brother's the same way as well. So you had a pretty average upbringing, I would say uh, you know, you have one brother that's kind of the the sports athletic guy, and then you've got the other brother that's kind of the opposite. So you've got two different personalities more or less growing up under the same household, and then life just takes you.

SPEAKER_02: 12:41

He was super athletic. He just didn't want to apply himself. The kid had a 90-mile-an-hour fastball. He just wouldn't apply himself. Like when he went to try out for the baseball team, he tried out jeans. Like, who does that, right? Like, just a lot of decisions that I question, like, what are you thinking, man?

SPEAKER_03: 12:55

Like, are you really thinking through these decisions? Probably just a little bit of maturity. I mean, you know, that's the best thing about the military is you go in and it gives you time to kind of bake and mature a little bit and figure out what it is that you want to do in life and um exposes you to different cultures, different people, um, a diversity of people from all over the United States, and then leadership and organization, it gives you all that stuff as well. So for as much flack as the military gets, um, for the kids out there that don't know what they want to do with themselves, it gives you time to figure it out. Um, and it sounds like you were a little more mature in a sense at an early age to figure out that you wanted to go to college, you were playing sports, so that was enough to give you your um your base, your organization, uh, your organizational skills, leadership skills, and all that stuff. So going into working for the government, what was that like?

SPEAKER_02: 13:49

Um, it was awesome. I'm not gonna lie. I I really enjoyed being an air marshal. I loved from the first day getting my butt kicked, it felt like football practicing in a little bit, you know, running and everybody's yelling at you, and it's just it felt I felt right into it, like doing two a days, and it was fine. You know, it it was great. Um learning a lot of the skills that we took later, like even though it was at a lower level, like going to the academy was fun for me. I didn't have a wife, I didn't have kids, I was 24 years old. Like I was young, I I was excited about it, I was ready for it. And uh it was an amazing experience. Seeing things I never would ever be able to see, you know, if I had not taken that position. I met my wife, you know, while doing that job down in Miami. I wouldn't have moved to Miami. You know what I mean? On my own, I probably would have never gone back there. So it's I don't know. It was a great experience. It it felt like what I wanted out of life because I knew I could get a guaranteed good salary. My parents always preached, you know, go into government, get a good job, do what you're supposed to do, work your way up the ladder, do your 401k, do your investments, and you'll be fine, right? You'll get a good retirement, you'll be solid, can retire in your 40s, and then do whatever you want after that. So I kind of like that's what I was gonna do. And I just want to be the best at what I did. To show up to work, but do the best job I can.

SPEAKER_00: 15:12

Just have fun.

SPEAKER_03: 15:13

Now, were either one of your parents military or in government work?

SPEAKER_02: 15:17

Yeah, they both were. So my mom was um, she was a civilian IT supervisor for the Coast Guard, but she was also a uh reserve commander. She was an 05, I believe, in the Coast Guard. Um, and then around 9-11, after 9-11, she got actually promoted and called to active duty in Miami um to be the chief of maritime homeland security. So she did that for I don't know, three, four years. So she was separated from the family for a little while. Um, while I was in high school, so like uh she went down about 01-02, and she was down there until like 05, I think. 04-05. I can't remember the exact time frame. And then uh my dad did 20 years Air Force, and then he got out and he ended up at uh U.S.

SPEAKER_00: 16:00

customers. So he retired both. So yeah. Both military government.

SPEAKER_03: 16:06

Yeah, you have a really uh deep government military leadership based family. I mean, right off the bat, you got a mom and dad that are that are really in there, and especially during a tumultuous time of September 11th, and and being sent down there to cover, you know, national security of our country. That's absolutely amazing that that you grew up with that type of leadership, and then you both, both of you boys kind of grew into your own, I guess you could say. So now you served your time in the government and then you decided to get out and transition into the civilian side. What was that like for you leading up to that?

SPEAKER_02: 16:47

Um after the medical retirement, it was kind of nerve-wracking. I had no idea what I was gonna do now. I knew my my medical pension would not, you know, I had three little girls, I have a wife, I have a full family, young family. So I had to make income, right? And I didn't know what exactly I wanted to do or how to even get there. Um, but networking and making good friendships is where it really became beneficial because I had some people that I could call on that kind of led me to this is what I did, you know, try this. Um I did one year as the vice president of cybersecurity investigations for a company, and uh it just wasn't what I was looking for anymore. It was very corporate, you know, a lot of work hours, a lot of extra stress that, and I just wanted to do something a little bit differently. And it was very cold. It was everybody's after you. Everybody wanted to take your job, everybody wanted to make you look bad and make themselves look better, and it just it wasn't a very good environment. And I just didn't want to be in that anymore. So I started figuring out what am I gonna do. So I started looking into opening my own business or figuring out what is next. Um met a fraternity brother who did commercial real estate, very successful at it, extremely successful at it. Probably does six hundred, seven hundred thousand dollars a year in commissions. Right? So, but when you transfer to that world, you know, into commissions only, there's no money coming in unless you're making the money. It's stress. Like you don't get the guaranteed paycheck that the government was, that cushy little protection of like, I'm gonna get my paycheck, I'm gonna get my paycheck. Like, how do I get my next, you know, five grand, my ten grand, my like what's what how do I get this to make this happen? And uh it was tough, you know, and then you also don't have the same kind of brotherhood that you did. Like it's not as tight, you're not seeing everybody all the time, you're not always with the the the camaraderie, you're kind of alone. So it forces you. If you don't step outside of that bubble and you don't start reaching out to people and forcing the communications and the connections, it won't happen. Um and I I was very blessed, you know. I made a lot of good friendships and a lot of good connections. And so I was able to, I'm a you know, a partner doing uh military, the ballistic protection for military contracts, law enforcement contracts. I do a little bit of commercial real estate. And what I do now is the sales director of a software company. We do, you know, merchant services for different kinds of businesses all over the United States in uh Puerto Rico. So I kind of got my hands in everything and I never stop.

SPEAKER_03: 19:31

That's the thing, man. Like when you're working on commission only, you can't have any down days, man. You can't take any breaks, right? I mean, in the government you could have a Tuesday where you're not feeling it and you can kind of just go through the motions, but when you're accountable and responsible and you have no money in your pockets, that's that's huge, right?

SPEAKER_02: 19:51

It's different. And you know, like I get to meet with a lot of different business owners every week now. I went and found a different kind of group of people to kind of hang around, and what I've learned is every business owner goes through that. Like there is no guaranteed money. If you don't, like just like any company, if you don't sell the product, there is no money coming in. You could have all the product in the world, but if you don't sell it, it's just loss. So it's the same kind of mentality of like, I've got to go out and grind for me. But there's less overhead, like you don't have somebody yelling at you all the time. You don't have the stress of like, it's a different kind of stress. But it's motivating because you're working for yourself.

SPEAKER_03: 20:30

Now, did you think the grass would be greener?

SPEAKER_00: 20:33

No.

SPEAKER_03: 20:34

You didn't.

SPEAKER_02: 20:35

I knew that it was gonna be a challenge and a transition, and I knew that I was gonna have to work three times as hard because I no longer can work in a position where I'm the the guy that like I already knew, I felt like I knew a lot in the government. I had a lot of m you know expertise by the time I retired, and I kind of basically had a good knowledge point on what I was doing. People came to me for answers. So stepping back into this world, I had to learn everything over, start over at the bottom again. Completely start from scratch.

SPEAKER_00: 21:04

And I'm still like, I'm still learning every day. There's so much to learn.

SPEAKER_03: 21:09

Did you feel like in corporate America that they're versus the government work that there's a lot of backstabbing going on because everyone's trying to climb that ladder?

SPEAKER_02: 21:19

100%. 100%. In the corporate world, in that corporate nine to five type environment, especially like the industry I was in, everybody is trying to keep their job. Right? In the government, they try you like you had to really do something to get fired. Like you had to really step on your toes multiple times. In in that world, they've they basically hung it over your head. Like we can let you go at any minute. Like we're paying you for this. Like your expert take, these are your expectations. Like if you're not exceeding those expectations, we can let you go at any moment. Like you're always on the chopping block. And everybody knows that. So any chance they can get to like step on you to get keep their job or get a promotion, they're gonna do it. There are no friendships, there's no loyalties. It's a completely different world.

SPEAKER_03: 22:05

I had a similar experience too when I got out of the military and I worked for a large aeronautics company. I was 27 at the time, had a graduate degree, just got out of the army as a captain, just came back from Operation Iraqi Freedom. Everybody's still flying the American flags. Um I was fortunate on one hand to be brought in and be employed right after resigning my commission. But when they handed us off, when HR handed us off to the management folks, um it was kind of like you're out in the ocean now, figure it out. And so a lot of your peers would look at you and say, 27 years old, has a master's degree, I don't even have a degree. Um, this is my competition now. Like I have to figure out how to get over this kid, and the leverage I have is my experience here. So I experienced a lot of that, a lot of um just hater mentality, basically, where I was trying to, I was, I was almost sabotaged in some ways. And finding someone to lean on, someone that you can trust was hard. And I was fortunate that there was another Air Force veteran, there was an Air Force veteran there, and uh his name was Kenny. Um, and shout out to him, man, because he actually pulled me aside and said, Look, kid, like this is what's going on, this is what you gotta do. So, how did you find the people that you could trust? How did you find your new tribe and your circle when you get out here and you just don't know who to trust?

SPEAKER_02: 23:37

I mean, this is gonna sound cliche to a lot of people, but God, man. Like he led me, and I'd I'm I've kind of changed the way my approach to life in general. Like before when I was in the government, like I got to a point where I thought I was the one in control. I was the reason I promoted. I was the reason that I I was always me, me, me. Like everything I did was because I put in the work. It was me all the time. And there was a point, and I don't know if I told you this or I didn't tell many people about this, but there was a point in California, dude, where I I just couldn't do it anymore with COVID and all the stuff going on and the stress and like the feeling that I'm gonna lose my job and the family and how am I gonna support my kids? Like, I couldn't, I had no answers. It came to a point where I had no, I couldn't figure out what to do. And I hit my knees on the side of a cliff right there in Palos Verdes out looking out towards Catalina Island, and I surrendered it, dude. I was like, I I give up, I give it all over. I I can't do this. I give it all over. Whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. At that point, like I just I said I can't control it anymore. I'm gonna stay aware and I'm not gonna like you know completely give up, but I'm I can't try to control every outcome. I just gotta ride it, take it when it comes. Stop stressing so much. I couldn't sleep. Like it was bad. I was it was it was very unhealthy. And uh now it's more of we roll with the experience. Like I don't force the experiences anymore, and like I'm always l open to communicate with people and help people and offer helping hand whatever I can. And then because it's like it's a thing called givers gain, I feel like, the more you give, you you tend to give back. And some people call it karma, some people call it whatever. But I just kind of ride the flow now and I still work hard, you know, you can't stop working. Like biblically, you have to work, but it's no longer me in control. I feel like I'm doing my work through somebody else's plan and just trying to help people whenever I can. Do everything I can to help people.

SPEAKER_03: 25:46

Your your wife must be an extremely strong individual. You have three daughters, you're out here hundreds of miles away from your nearest family, right? Because you're they're all in Florida, and you're out here in Los Angeles, lost Angeles. This place is so lost. Uh and um it's I mean, it's it's hard to connect here. I always say there's like millions of people here, but it's really hard to find a good circle, a good community because everything here is traffic and lines and hustle and bustle, and you hit the ground and had to just give it up to Jesus and say, Look, take the wheel, like tell me where to go from here. Um, how how did that change your life after that? Like, how has that changed your life now that you're not feeling like you have to drive the steering wheel, but you're listening to someone else?

SPEAKER_02: 26:45

It was a it was a blessing in a lot of ways. And my wife is a saint. Like she really is, and you know, I I've also got to thank you for that conversation we had in my office, like probably a year in when I was thinking about sending my wife and children home back to Florida. Like they weren't liking Los Angeles, COVID and all the chaos and the stress, and we have a baby that's stuck in a house all the time. It was just horrible. And you're like, don't do it, it's not worth it. Like, either keep them here or you leave. Like, never leave your family. And you had an experience yourself, man, that you shared with me, and that changed me. I learned from you in that. And that conversation was meant to happen. Like, I was meant to meet you, I was meant to be there. I was meant to have that exact conversation in that office. Otherwise, my life would look completely different. I could be divorced now, I could be, who knows? Who knows what happened? You know? That's the way I look at life. Everything has a purpose. The good, the bad, the ugly, all of it. There is a purpose and it flows. You just gotta be willing to kind of ride it and listen. And if you don't listen, you're gonna miss something. Like I you told me what to do, and I was like, man, that's that's what I'm gonna do. I listened.

SPEAKER_03: 27:54

I heard you. I really appreciate you listening to me, because I I don't mind being vulnerable, and that's kind of why I have this podcast, is I don't mind sharing my experiences, no matter how shitty they were, no matter what the outcome was, how I mean I failed so many times, man, in life. I have failed so many times. I lived and learned, and in a sense, I feel like if I can share a piece of me that makes me vulnerable for someone else, and it makes their life better, then I'll die happy. And I appreciate you listening to just what I had to say, you know, because um, yeah, I I had an experience where I thought on paper, this makes sense. Like I'll send my family away and I'll stay here, and you know, and and all this stuff, and it it just doesn't work, and your wealth is truly your family and not your bank account. And I think people need to understand that sometimes that it's not about hum the the amount of digits that you have in your bank or what's on your statement, it's about when you go home, do you have someone to cry and lean on and just release all the world's tensions? And so I'm proud of you. I can't tell you how proud I am of you because you are so resilient, you are you've always been super professional, and you're truly a leader and when at when it's all said and done. And like I said, you're definitely top three of all the blessed folks that I've ever had to work for my entire life. Um so for that, you know, the career transition happens, and you end up in now you're in Florida, right?

SPEAKER_02: 29:48

Yep. We're back in Florida.

SPEAKER_03: 29:50

And you're working for this corporation. What was what was that like?

SPEAKER_02: 29:55

It was different in the way that they expect you to come in as a professional right away. They're not gonna train you, they're not gonna teach you. There's nothing that you will be you come in and they're you're gonna do the job. Like that's it. You read your SOPs, you you, you know, you read what they tell you to do, and that figure it out. And you better be good at it or you're you're done. And, you know, it just it it was a remote job. It was completely remote, and it was computer for 16 hours a day almost. I had three monitors and I was constantly investigating all kinds of fraud and insider threat, and just it was insane. Like we did in my year, I think I did over 100 investigations. Just me. And then we had a team of like five at the time. And the job, I'll put it this way, the job was so stressful, and I hope he's in heaven. And I I don't know what but the guy that I worked for, he was a great guy. He used to be an air marshal as well, actually. That's how I learned about the position. Um, he committed suicide. What the job stress got to him.

SPEAKER_00: 31:02

Yeah. This was after you started working there? After I left.

SPEAKER_02: 31:07

About a year after I left. And it was pretty sad, man, like when I heard about it. You had a young kid, his wife, and just the stress of those kinds of jobs sometimes can be overwhelming. And you talk about being vulnerable, right? One of the things he told, there's another really good close friend, I don't want to say names right now, but he called him the night before and he was harping on his time in the government. I mean, I missed the brotherhood and man, and then um the guy who worked with me at the uh the bank doing the investigations, one of the team members, when he left, you know, he went back into government because he just didn't like it in the private world. So he went back in and now he's with HSI. And while he was at HSI Academy, um, this guy, this particular person's picture's on the wall. He won a bunch of awards there for the HSI Academy when he was there. You know, they take the pictures of you and they post it up when you beat all the running records, shooting records, and all that stuff. So his buddy, our mutual friend, took a picture and said it to him and he's like, Yeah, it's back when I mattered. And he had no outlet, right? He wasn't reaching out to anybody, he wasn't vulnerable, he wasn't able to talk about his what the struggles he was going through internally. But looking back, our mutual friend was like, wow, I didn't pick up on that. He told me. He said it, like back when I mattered, right? The key words. But he wasn't listening. He wasn't truly listening, and he blames himself. I'm like, don't blame yourself, man. It is hard. These are hard lessons. Like it just it was it was bad. I'm not saying it's like that in every government job or corporate job after the government or anything like that. It's just there's always going to be hard times, there's always gonna be struggles, there's always gonna be something, and we need each other. It's the brotherhood, it's the camaraderie that you need, whether it's three people. Men need men. And I'm actually in a part of a biblical group now. It's a bunch of you know, business owners, um, and we're doing this uh this workshop, and we go through and we're it's all men. We talk about the vulnerabilities of man and we work through that, and we openly communicate it because it's not easy. Uh it's it's really not. And I don't know if I told you uh about the caveman combine that I got to do with my brother.

SPEAKER_03: 33:24

You mentioned it to me, and I I tried to reach out to those guys and never was able to get a hold of them.

SPEAKER_02: 33:28

Caleb is super busy, but they're starting to get it going again. Um, there's one in May if you want to go, but uh I'm gonna go again. It's it's brutal, it's intense, but it's freaking awesome. You can see some of their videos. They have an Instagram channel and the uh like they have some some podcasts and stuff. But Caleb Callahan, great guy. Um, that was another way that men got us back to our different roots, like our foundational roots and the prayers and the the the just it's constantly about building that brotherhood, I think.

SPEAKER_00: 33:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 33:58

And maintaining it and having someone you can actually be vulnerable and talk to about stuff.

SPEAKER_03: 34:02

Because it it's not easy. The the thing that I loved about the the uh what was it called? The caveman what? Caveman combine. Caveman combine. The thing I liked about that was what you when you talked to me about that before was how they have the groups set up and it's more of a team effort. There's been a lot of these Navy SEAL style boot camps that have popped up where they just spray you down with the water hose and insult you the whole time. And that's those are absolutely ridiculous. Those are really stupid. But like what you described with the caveman combine, it builds camaraderie and it gives you a chance to work as a team and then it involves religion, right? It's not like you've got some grown man yelling at you and spitting in your face and giving you uh a mock-up of what Navy SEALs go through. That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life. But the caveman combine, it sounds like you got an opportunity to network and meet a lot of folks, and you worked with your brother there as well. Yeah. What were your things?

SPEAKER_02: 34:58

First time we were ever on a team. There were nice things. We camped out for three days and hard like hard-knocked it. Cold weather, rain in the mountains of Georgia.

SPEAKER_03: 35:16

That's so cool, man.

SPEAKER_02: 35:18

Such a great experience.

SPEAKER_03: 35:19

Describe like what the setups were were like. Like how big were the groups and how big, how many groups were there, and and what was the environment like, and what were some of the obstacles and and I guess team obstacles you had to go through.

SPEAKER_02: 35:32

So I'll circle back a little bit too. Like how I came into this was I was at an event for my current job, the software company. We were doing a convention, and there was this like country boy across from me, just this loud, outgoing, charismatic, loud country boy with his business. Just I could just see him as his energy. I was like, I'm gonna go talk to this guy. This is Caleb Callahan. And he just, you know, told me all about the stuff, and we got to talk about the lore and the politics and their country, and just you know, just everything. We didn't hold back. Like we were just having a great time. And he's like, hey, next month I'm doing this thing called Caveman Combine. You sound like you and your brother would be good for it. I'm like, I'll be there. He's like, Yeah, right, right. Okay, like, okay, sure, you're gonna show up to this combine thing and beat yourself up for three days. You know, not expensive either. Not that expensive. It's like 400 bucks for the whole weekend. That covered the food, the ammo, the everything, right? So we did it. We showed up. Me and my brother packed it up, got a couple tents, we didn't know what to expect, and just drove eight hours north to the mountains, Georgia, and just went into this compound. So you pull into this compound and it's beautiful. 260 acres of mountainside compound, self-sustainable community. Like these he's built himself a beautiful little nook. And I can't, I'm not gonna share these the allocation right now. But um, so you go into it, you pull up, and it's just this big campsite they have set up. They have these um these giant, they put pulled trees down and made these giant tents out of like giant pine trees and black tarps, and they had the cots, like the military-style cots, all inside the bunks, and then outside the bunks, they had these uh like posts that were different colors. Nobody knew what it was for yet. So you show up, you register, you know, you there's like six tents. So I'm uh I assumed at that time there's gonna be six teams of some sort. There's six tents, different colors. You show up and they have bench presses made out of wood. Like out there, there's like five bench press machines, there's a pull-up bar, there's like all these different like things set up, and you're like, okay, this looks like like the football combine kind of. You're like, what's about to happen here? I'm having flashbacks of the uh you know the old HFAs, like back when they when they would get us in the academy. Um and then so we get there, we sign up, they call everybody in, and they basically give you a number. And they give you this like little sticker, you put it to your thing, and you have a number, and you have this sheet, and you basically walk around and compete. And you do all like you do as many bench presses as you can, you throw the key, you throw the uh kettlebell as far as you can, you do the pull-ups, and you they score you. And then you're drafted on the teams. And I want to say there's about 48 men, give or take. I want to say that was the number. I'm not, I don't care exactly how many, but then they would call basically out from that, they would giraft us into different teams. And then they would tell you what team you're on, you'd meet your team captain, you get your colored shirts into the tent, they kind of break it down, your leader tells you down, says a prayer, you know, you start talking about it, we're getting to know each other a little bit. And then that night, that very first night, activities start. I mean, it's pouring down rain, it's you know, cold, and we're out there like crushing it. I mean, we went so hard, a dude broke his leg on the first night. Like snapped, completely snapped it. They had to take him to the hospital that night. But it was a great time, man. So you put yourself through a lot of torture. You're hurting, go to sleep, wake right back up in the morning to get back to it. Um, there was marksmanship, where you did different levels of marksmanship from the like the caveman on. So like you threw stones, then you threw spears, then you threw hatchets, then you shot bow and arrow, transitioned all the way to guns. Um and then once we did the marksmanship exercise, there was uh let's see, there was marksmanship, there was the relay races, there was the crucible, which was intense. Um that one hurt me. It's basically a four-mile run, team run, through the mountains, up the mountain, down with ropes, through up going upstream against a running, flowing, full flowing river, and like up to your waist, ice cold, you can't feel your toes. You go up that for a couple miles, and you and there's only the only way you can do it is by teamwork. So if you don't have your guy to lift you over the logs, like there's some logs you have to go over, they have a side like you have to go under some, over some, and if you don't have somebody to pull you under that rushing water man, you would get swept out. So it was pretty intense. Um and then you get to the end of it, and there were some pretty cool things that like if you weren't paying attention and working as a team, you couldn't finish it. Like it was all about that brotherhood and working together. Like if you got to the end, but you forgot you didn't go get the key and you weren't paying attention to the maps and you weren't like together, you couldn't unlock your tools to build the cruci the crucifix out of two by fours. You had to build this giant crucifix to carry that in for the final run. So you couldn't finish the this whole thing. You had to go all the way back, get the key, and then come back and build your so it was it was a really cool, you know, it it oh and the warrior games. Man, I can't I don't forget, forget the warrior games. Dude. Pugle sticks, tug of war, um, the ring of fire where you're grabbing onto this tire and just trying to just drive each other out of the circle or just launch each other off of it. It was just full on just we went to war. And then It sounds like a ton of fun, man. How many days was this? It was it was three days, two nights. So you show up on a Friday, you stay Friday night, Saturday night, and then you leave Sunday uh evening.

SPEAKER_03: 41:14

Now, do you have to necessarily be a Bible beater? Like, do you have to be someone that's deeper religious to do this sort of thing?

SPEAKER_02: 41:21

Not at all. I would say there was a good handful of these guys that weren't that way. So like we would do these, you know, these talks about the Bible. You know, one of the guys was in the Navy SEAL and he's a pastor now. And uh he's part of one of the ones that started this program. But they're just trying to get young men and breach them. You know, you don't have to, they're not gonna turn you away. They're not gonna say go. Like, you come, you participate, you know, and just listen. And we'd have these talks too, where, you know, with our group, we would have these in-depth talks about what we're going through in life. You know, these kinds of kind of what we're doing now in a way. Like opening up, being vulnerable. There are guys that said they had never in their entire lives opened up about some of these conversations we had to anybody, especially a man. Because as a man, you know, we're tough, we're strong, we're unbreakable, we're we're this hard surface, like nobody can ever, we have no emotion, we're so tough. No one realizes like that's not at all what we are. We're human beings. We're fragile creatures. Our hard surface is just a product of all the things that are underlying that led to that. Why do we portray that way? Why do we have to be so tough or angry? There's underlying issues to all of it. And it's just it brought a brotherhood, man. It was meant to be meeting those guys, competing with my brother. It was uh one of the greatest experiences. I can't wait to do it again.

SPEAKER_03: 42:46

Man, that sounded exciting when you were describing it. Everything from swimming upstream and and just all the elements that you had to deal with. Yeah, man, that sounds awesome. About how many people were there altogether? Would you say like 200 or so or less than that?

SPEAKER_02: 43:00

A little over a hundred with all the volunteers and yeah, because they had all kinds of volunteers that showed up. Um a lot of these guys lived in the local area of northern Georgia, Tennessee. Um, but there were some people that came all the way from like, I want to say uh Virginia, Alabama, us from Tampa. So the word's getting out, you know, and these guys, I would love to help them grow this thing. It's it's a great product.

SPEAKER_03: 43:23

I would love to connect with them. I mean, it sounds like a really cool event, man, a real positive event, an event that we need in tod in today's world, man, especially a lot of these men out here need something to bring that reciprocity and that that idea of teamwork back together again, you know. And that I got excited just listening to you talk about it, man. Um we had a conversation the other day, and I want to touch on this. Um can you underline the importance of the importance that you have found, I guess, with having multiple streams of income?

SPEAKER_02: 44:00

So it comes back to when I was in the government, I put all my eggs in that basket. I was thinking, like just as my parents told me, you work in the government, you get your pension, you put away some money, and when you retire, you've got all your money you need. Well, that's not true anymore, especially. Even when you do retire, you do your full 20, 25 years, you come out, you could have a couple hundred grand, maybe five, six hundred grand in your TSP. If you played it right in your 401k, you might be able to get to 800 or so. Not bad. But if you're gonna retire in your 40s and 50s, the cost is going up. Everything's going up. And if you're not drawing from all those things properly, like for me, I I didn't get all that pension. I didn't get all that time to invest. So I only came out with like 90 something thousand at my TSP, maybe a hundred. And, you know, with the pension being what it was, now I'm like, okay, how do I continue paying for all these expenses that I'm used to doing with$160,000 your salary? And having one stream of revenue, you could lose it at any moment, especially when you come to the private sector. Like you don't know when that stream of revenue is going to be shut down. So you get all these bills, get all the you build this lifestyle, and all of a sudden it's gone tomorrow. Just because they don't want you anymore. They cut you at any time. And I started meeting all of the wealthy people I've met have multiple streams of revenue. Monetarily wealthy people I've met, they all have numerous streams of revenue. Um, and a lot of them focus on building residual income in addition to their active income. So, like, for me with champion payments, this is my active income. This is where I'm focused on. My energy is kind of focused on, and then everything else I have working for me. Like with the, you know, the procurement of the ballistic protection and the body armor contracts and then the commercial real estate stuff, and then building residual income within this business is another avenue stream of revenue in addition to my active income. So it's it's building out, so like if something were to happen, I still have income, no matter what happens. And years down the road, I have that that that income is always there. I'm looking at hopefully one day I'll get to acquire a couple commercial properties where I can have those commercial properties work for me and have investment properties and and you know, just multiple streams of revenue.

SPEAKER_03: 46:25

Yeah, what at what point did you make that shift though? You went from like the mentality that your parents gave you to the mentality that you have now. Like, was there somebody involved in that, or was it just you just came to that?

SPEAKER_02: 46:36

No, it was people that I met. People I've talked to, like the way you I listen to people, I absorb and I learn from people's experiences because they've already been there or they've done that. And like I also surround myself by successful people on purpose, right? So, like, if I want to be successful, that's who I need to talk to. How did you do it? How did you get here? You know, and a lot of these guys that I've met, I mean, they've been willing to share their secrets because it's not a secret. You know, it's not a secret. They're not trying to hold some secrets formula. They just work hard, you know, put their faith and do multiple different things and do it well.

SPEAKER_03: 47:14

Work hard, discipline, faith. I mean, can you talk about the importance that you have found in like mentorship mentorship is a big one.

SPEAKER_02: 47:25

I love helping people. And it there is it could turn around for you too. Like you never know when someone can come back and help you out. Like someone that you've guided in in life, and all of a sudden, wow, they're in a position to help you. And it's been I've been very blessed that I've gotten to see a lot of people succeed, um, that I've helped and mentored, but I've also taken some mentors as well. You know, I've been lucky and blessed that I've found some good mentors that guided me and you know, showed me different paths and great partnerships and like just I think that is the most important thing we can do in this life. People call it networking or whatever, but be selective on who you surround yourself with. But don't push people away either. Like listen, help people out. Like just be a good person. If you're willing to help people and you're willing to put yourself out there and you're willing to actually listen and make a change, it it changes everything. That I think that is the key to all of it.

SPEAKER_00: 48:28

Like I think that like that is literally the you can't do it alone.

SPEAKER_02: 48:35

No one can do it alone. Like there is no success alone. Maybe maybe that is not true for everybody, but in most experiences I've seen and people that I've seen that have been successful, they surround themselves with a good team, good people, and they have a good network of friends. Ones they can rely on. And they work together and they're not trying to stab each other in the back. Like that's one thing I love about what I do now with merchant processing and merchant services and and working at champion payments. People are like, well, how do you feel, you know, like you're doing a good job, or how do you feel like your job matters? Well, what I do now is completely dependent on the success of the people I work for and with. Like if I partner with a restaurant, let's say, I don't make a profit unless that restaurant succeeds. Our success is completely reliant on each other's success. So there is no me trying to make them fail to make myself better. Like I want them to succeed. I want to pump as much success into that company as I can because the more successful they are, the more successful we are. We are literally reliant on each other. And I love that. Because when I can go in and actually say that to them and they understand it, they're like, oh, that makes sense. I make no money unless you make money. So let's let's go out there and crush it. And that changes everything.

SPEAKER_03: 49:53

Yeah, it seems like it's a whole different mentality because I know in government work, a lot of times you get into a position, you build it up, and then all the products and all the things that you did usually gets torn down, and then somebody else uses the man hours to rebuild it again. And versus like in the civilian world, you're building towards something, but there's a good chance, good opportunity that you'll just continue in that position for a uh a number of years and maybe build yourself up to be a greater success, which I think is a lot more motivational than knowing that in three to four years I'm gonna have to move on to something else. Um and I don't know. So they they say a lot of times it creates a a better, well-rounded professional, but I don't know if if that's true or not. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02: 50:41

I would say, like, from my experience, and I'm still young, I'm I'm not old yet, and I don't feel like I've still got a lot of working to do, but and growing to do. But I I just feel like we have to find something that we truly can do, right, that we enjoy.

SPEAKER_00: 50:58

Don't settle.

SPEAKER_02: 51:00

When I found this, a Christian faith-based company, like the CEO here is amazing. He treats everybody with love, compassion, understanding. He's a pastor, he has his own congregation. Like I've surrounded myself and found a position in a career that like I can grow with it and evolve with it and help build the business and be a part of it and the success of it. And he shares that, you know, it's a family, it's not a job. And it's I tell everybody we get one chance, right, to to go around the globe, like or we'll circle the earth or live our life. From our experience, like from our knowledge, we get one chance at it. Like, why waste the time being miserable? And that's why I think that's the one thing I could take away from leaving the government, that there is life after those positions. Like there is, you can always find a new job. As long as you're hardworking, dedicated, and you're you're honest and you have integrity, there's always a job. You don't have to be reliant on one. If you're not happy, if it causes your marriage, your kids, like causes any rifts in your family, like walk away. Go find something else. Like there's something else out there for you. You don't know. Like it could be around the next corner. Not I'm not telling everybody just quit their jobs. Like, we need people to work just jobs. You know, there's certain careers that we need people to be in. Like you guys served our country. We need that. And I'm not saying everybody should just leave it because there's some people that love what they do. And we value that. Like I value your what you do, I value what my brother does, my sister-in-law, a lot of friends and family that are still in the government.

SPEAKER_03: 52:39

Yeah. And and I think there's different evolutions of your life as well. Like if you're doing something, whether it's military, law enforcement, first responder, your head and your heart has to be in it. And even if you do five years in the military, four years in the military, whatever it is, I mean, for that time frame, your service is honorable. You don't have to do 20 years or 30 years or whatever. It's it's you do something for a certain amount of time, and as long as your head and your heart and your family is is there, that's the most important thing that you have. Um I have known guys over the years that are like, well, I served in the military, but I didn't go to combat. So, you know, it's kind of I kind of was in the military, but not really. And that's not true. Like at the end of the day, you signed up for a very difficult mission that most people don't sign up for. And it's the same thing with first responders as well. So your time uh serving as a first responder as law enforcement is extremely valuable, even though you've moved on past that now and and you're serving other purposes now. Um you meet with all these CEOs. What's happening?

SPEAKER_02: 53:52

I was gonna say, like, I got way more out of that than I did in college. Like college is a piece of paper. I I can't tell you if I've applied anything I learned in college other than you know, a couple of nights out with the boys. So I mean, you know, going in the government and and being in law enforcement, like I got so much experience from it. So many opportunities, hands-on experience, building programs, working with people, mentoring, you know, deploying, doing it was a great experience. Um I I I feel like everybody should get the opportunity to serve in some capacity or another. And you brought up another point again, you know, I wanted to touch on it. When you said it, I thought about it. Like the fact that people second guess themselves, yeah, I was kind of in the military. Like, why did people think down on themselves? Everybody's quick to put themselves put themselves down or say, like, you know, even with me, like, yeah, I kind of played football in college. I did it to, I did it and I tried not to, and I still did it. Like, nobody wants to talk to themselves, like, no one wants to be like, yeah, I was, you know. You gotta be proud of what you do. Proud of your accomplishments and proud of your failures. Like, you tried, right? It's like this other guy, the the guy in the gym the other day, he was sitting there reping, I want to say like 275, whatever, and he failed. And he he did it like three or four times, but then he failed in the last rep, and I pulled it off him. And he's like, dang it, man, you know, I'm so weak. I had I'm like, dude, you just did exactly what you're supposed to do. You failed. You pushed yourself to failure. You got more out of this workout than anybody else in here that's doing 20 reps. Like you failed and you succeeded at the same time. Like you got so much from that rep. He's like, Oh, dude, thank you, man. You know, it's like it's looking, it's it's all perspective on how we look at life. He was down on himself because he felt like everybody was gonna judge him for failing on a rep. Like, dude, that's badass. You pushed yourself to failure. Like, that is a totally different mindset. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 55:49

I want to say I told you the same thing too when I met you and you told me you played football. You downplayed it quite a bit. And I was like, don't downplay that. Like the fact that you even stepped on the field at Division I, Division III, any collegiate athlete out there that has the dis and I say this is the difference between the military and being a collegiate athlete. In the military, you're told where to be, what to wear, how to pivot. Yeah, the whole nine yards. When you're a college athlete, they're giving you a time, but you have to set that alarm clock. There you like you have to have the discipline to go out to the field at that time and bring all your stuff with you. So it takes a lot of maturity to be a collegiate athlete. I remember telling you, I was like, don't downplay that. And um, so it's funny that uh that that I just remembered that, that that specific thing about you.

SPEAKER_02: 56:37

Um I think it's more of in that it's a disappointment myself because I I I chose to party versus applying myself like I should have.

unknown: 56:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 56:48

And I I I do I don't want to look back. If I change anything, it changes everything. Right. But I do like I could have pushed myself harder.

SPEAKER_03: 56:56

I mean, you're you're a kid. I mean, at the end of the day, the fact that you were even in that driver's seat to begin with, to be in that position, is incredible, man. Like you the to be even accepted to div Division III College is absolutely um outstanding. Uh, it was. And you know, we we are our own worst critics, man, and and we are really hard on ourselves a lot of times. I recently, a couple years ago, I went through a really difficult tactics course with a really difficult instructor. Instructor was a peer of mine. Uh, his name was Mike, great guy. The guy is Warren Torn. I mean, just had I have had so many conversations with him where he just talks about his time serving in Afghanistan. Uh, and there's such a big difference between his experiences and mine. But went through this tactics course and I screwed up really bad on this one scenario, and I thought, man, I'm going to get my ass chewed. I just prepare for it. Just I deserve it. The whole nine yards. I walked out of the uh out of the house and expecting to get my ass chewed, and uh this instructor, Mike, he just looked at me and he just kind of shook his head, and I just kind of stood off to the side and was beating myself up internally. And later on I asked him, I said, Man, I expected you to chew my ass after that one because I knew I screwed up. And he goes, you know what? He goes, I know you. He goes, I know you're gonna be harder on yourself, and then I can be on you. So I'm just gonna let that go. And he's right. He was 1,000% right, man. I was beating myself up. So nothing anyone else could say to me at that time would have affected me in any way, shape, or form. But we are sometimes, we do struggle with the internal value of ourselves. And what are some of the things that you've learned over the years on how we can be better at, I guess, just I guess loving ourselves a little more, respecting ourselves a little more, our experiences, our time. Um, you weren't just in the Marines, you weren't just in the Army, you weren't just in law enforcement, but you were serving, and a life of service is a life worth living. So how have you learned to, I guess, really appreciate yourself a little bit more and your your experiences?

SPEAKER_02: 59:21

Again, it comes back to the Bible and it comes back to the camaraderie in the group and the people I surround myself with. Like doing the Bible study together, part of our series that we're doing, it's called 33 series, is about vocational in your job as a man. So it's perfect timing because we literally are doing the series right now. Um and, you know, last week there were some of the, these are business owners, successful business owners, and they were talking about how they're not happy with their job, or like it's just a oh yeah, I just do this or I just do that, or you know, nobody was like proud of all their experiences, but on the outside looking in, we're like, wait, wait, pump the brakes. You run a$10 million a year business that you started from the ground up with literally no help, and you built it into this by yourself. You should be proud of that. You're okay, you're just a roofer. That's what you think. But dude, you put roofs on people's houses. You've built an empire where you have 10 crews working for you. Like you, you are doing so much for our community, and like you don't realize what your your impact is. To you, you're just putting roofs on houses, but you're putting roofs on houses. Like I mean, he's like, I never really thought about it like that. And we all do that. The pest control owner, the it doesn't matter what you're like, everybody kind of like finds a way if if they it becomes we come become complacent. Right. We start to when we become so good at something, we become complacent. And I I'm guilty of it all the time. I do it all the time. Like everything. I'm like, like, you know, even my bench press, I hit 315 on incline for like four the other day. And the dude's like, dude, that's super strong. And I was like, it It's normal for me. It's just me lifting weight, right? But to out somebody out outside's perspective, that looks like a crap ton of weight. You know what I mean? It's like, wow, that dude's hitting 315 on an incline. It's just, I think it's people reminding us or finding a way to maybe self-reflect. Say, if I was looking at my life, what would it look where it appeared? How does it appear? And then it's taking that a step further and saying, what in my job or what in my life am I doing to serve God's purpose? And that's the thing that we're taking away from this now. Not only our own internal satisfaction, but are we satisfying God's goal for us? And I told, like, we were talking about it in the roofer, you know, he's like, you know, this is what I've got, this is all I do, but but that's the skill you were given. If you told me to go make a roof, I have no idea what I'm doing. I would not, I would botch the job, I would have no clue how to make a roof. I have no job, I don't have no clue how to do these things. You guys do. It's impressive that you guys can do this. And that you see it, architects, same thing. An architect that he's like, oh, I just design houses. Like, dude, that's incredible. You design houses that stay up and house people. Like it's just people get complacent. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:15

Yeah, I can't really describe it myself, man. But yeah, I know a lot of, and I always tell people this like I have over the years worked with some tremendously, I mean, impressive professionals. I always say like the difference between a lot of your big-time influencers, like your Jocko's and your Mike Glovers and all these other guys out there, the difference between them and the guys that I've worked with over the years is marketing. That's it. Like, there are some really impressive guys that I've just been so fortunate to be standing in the same room and be a part of whatever exercise it is or whatever op that we're doing at that time. And um we we have a tendency to kind of dwindle ourselves down just a notch or two or three or four and downplay who we are, man, and our experiences overall. And I don't understand it myself. You mentioned before that you've been part of conversations with CEOs and these millionaires, and they're sort of in the same boat. We're like, they're kind of bored and they don't know what to do with themselves, and they don't see themselves as something bigger than anything else. Can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:24

Yeah, 100%. Um it's it's the same thing I was just you know kind of touch a base on. We go into these meetings and they have been doing it for 20 years, and like it's the same day, same thing. They wake up and they just have their coffee and their routine and they're just bored looking for meaning in life. You know, if you don't have anyone, or you're not good at self-reflection, like a lot of us aren't. A lot of us like to beat each other up. We beat ourselves up, but how do we like pull each other, like our own self, like pull ourselves up? I've got my wife, like she's very good at it. Like I have got very lucky in my wife. She keeps me motivated, she backs me no matter what I decide to do. You know, she reminds me of my worth. You know, she's hard on me, which is good, but not as hard as I am on myself. But we, you know, these these CEOs and these you know successful people, they all have their own internal struggles and their own reasons that they're no longer content in life or they're looking for something. And I, you know, for me, I'm not gonna tell everybody, you know, go to the Bible or do that, but find something that you want in addition to your work. If you're feeling like that, first find your worth and how you can make it, you know, valuable, but then find something else that you can put your time into. Like for me, I volunteer at the church, I do the safety team for all the children. I keep 400 kids safe every single Wednesday. You know, I enjoy that. You know, I volunteer a lot of my time to safety and like security of the church, and that's where I put a lot, pour my time into on my off time. Um, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I feel like I'm making a difference at the church. Providing a service for the church.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:10

Finding that soul fulfillment, right? That's really what it is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:16

But we can find it in our own jobs, we can find it in everyday life. But you gotta be willing to listen and figure out what it is. Even if it's just giving someone food, homeless man food or woman food, or or finding a way to like put a couple bucks aside every month, and then once you get a good chunk, like help a mom and her child. There's so many ways to help. There's orphans out there, like one of the big things I was talking about with my wife the other day for Christmas, we went to this orphanage and we got these like uh like Christmas trees, you pull them off the tree, and it's a kid that has this wish list or whatever. The two kids I saw were 18 and 19 years old. And I was like, man, like what happens like when they're 18, 19 and like they're still in the orphanage? Like, well, then let them stick around for a little bit, but this will be the last Christmas. Like this is their last, now they're on their own. And these kids get out there on their own and they don't have a network, they have no parents, they have no guidance, they don't have like they're just kind of on their own. What's gonna happen to those children? Like that's what we were talking about, like how can we maybe one day look for a way to help these kids coming out of these situations and guide them to the career, guide them to college, show them how to fill out paperwork. You know, just give them free guidance and and support. Maybe go earlier, start with them when they're 16 at the orphanages, start talking in through like what do you want to do with your life? What are you interested in? These children need guidance, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:48

Yeah, and that's the one thing. There's a lot, there's a lot of mentorship that's needed. A lot. A lot. A lot, and a lot of men are not doing it. They're not mentoring these young men to look professional, be professional, how to talk, how to walk. I mean, we've I'd say my generation, we've almost failed. Like we sit here and complain about all these kids coming up now. That's our fault. That's our fault. That's my generation's fault, man. I gotta take accountability for that. Um, and it hurts my heart because I didn't grow up that way. My dad was a really hardcore guy, really intense um guy that was 20-year military service, ranger, drills, drill instructor. I mean, he set me straight, man. I was very fortunate and blessed to have him as a father, as a father figure going up. Um and and I want to mention too, we talked about belonging here and not selling ourselves short of who we are and our experiences. And as you were just talking, I looked behind me and I I saw my um bronze star back here with uh with the IED deck chord underneath it, and that was in a box for a number of years. I never pulled it out, I never really talked about it. Um it was one of those things where I came back and I just wanted to assimilate. I wanted to just be like everybody else. I didn't want to be different. But no matter how much I tried to scrub myself of that, I always came back to understanding that I'm a combat veteran. And I've been trying to learn how to appreciate more of the idea that I belong here. I belong in this podcast space. Um, I belong doing this. And it's days like this that make me re I guess that make me understand because I have these conversations with guys like you, and this has been dude, this is yeah, exactly. This has been such a it just re-energizes me to like this is what I need to be doing because people need to hear from guys like you how they're continuing on and continuing forward, even though you have all this adversity, you have downs, you have ups, you have in-betweens. You talked about offline, we talked about depression. I mean, you experienced a little bit of that, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:18

Extreme depression. Yeah. I mean, when I was in California, man, it got I was drinking every night. I mean, heavily. Rum. Like I would have these giant, and not just like a little cup of like, you know what I mean? I would fill these giant cups. My Miami, University of Miami, cocaines, by the way. The University of Miami cup, I'd fill it up with like halfway full with rum and like a can of Coke Zero, and I would drink at least one of those a night. Like when I was grilling, I'd be like, oh, I'm just gonna drink while I grill my burgers, grill my food for the kids while they swim in the pool, right? All these excuses. But it was to really like try to take away the stress. And all that did was make the make it worse. Because now I'm I'm by blood pressure and I'm hung over a little bit. It was constant, it was a cycle. And then I put on a face at work and I would start a shade staying motivated, but as soon as I'd walk out the door, it was back to the depression and anxiety and you know, stress and internal dwell. Like I didn't want to put it on my wife, you know, but I had no one else to talk to about that kind of stuff at the time, you know, because I didn't want to be vulnerable. I was a I was a supervisor, I was a leader, I was, you know, federal agent. Like, yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:31

Like just this yeah, this tough guy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:35

I'm a hard guy, I'm strong, I'm big, I'm my kids, I'm I'm you know, invincible. You know, and it's just you know, everything happened for a reason. I I learned at a young age, man. I I'm blessed that I learned young. I I'm I feel so blessed. I guess I've always kind of done things faster than most. Like the way I knew I was gonna start my career, I knew exactly what I was gonna do. Most people got out of college and had no clue what they were gonna do.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:01

Like it's I've been blessed. Well, just like I said, man, I've been blessed to work with people like you and to be able to sit here today and have a conversation with you, George. Um, when it's all said and done, you got three daughters, what legacy do you want to leave on this earth?

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:19

I just want to show them that they can do whatever they want, whatever they put their minds to, and you know, lead by compassion, by example. I want them to be strong, you know, I'm teaching them all kinds of valuable skills in life, but I also want them to have compassion and to think for themselves, not just because somebody tells you to do something. Like that's one thing that I took away. Like in the government, we were told to do certain things, and it became an order. And if you defied that order, there were consequences. And I didn't agree with certain orders at certain times, and I stuck my ground. And a lot and a lot of people had to go through that. I mean, we all went through some interesting times in 2020, 2021. And it it opened my eyes because growing up, I was always an order follower. Always. Like a completely order followers. And I'm not saying there's not good things in law and order, but you need to think for yourself. Why am I doing this? What is the reason I'm doing this? Is there moral reasons for this? Like, and I make my kids think like that. Like even I love my girls, they're so smart, and they like they love it because it's an exercise. I don't just tell them no anymore. And my wife kind of helped with this. If we don't want them to do something, we'll say, We don't think you should. Here's why. What are your thoughts on it? And we let them actually communicate with us. Well, I want to do it because this isn't this. Okay, well, have you thought about this, this, this, this, right? Instead of just be like, no, end of story, I'm the dad. That's it. You're done. Like the way we were raised. Like, that's it. No more questions. Go to bed. Okay, yes, sir. So I just I I want to leave a legacy of to see the world differently. They love the church. There's they're so involved in the church. Two girls are on the worship team, you know, they love to sing, they love to praise. Um it's just good to see them grow up into little women. You know, I got one that's going to be a teenager this year. Scary. Just a little woman. So it's it's happened quick. And I'm sure you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:30

What a what a beautiful life you've had, George. You've had ups, downs, you've had a brother that's proudly served during a time of war, great parents that also served our great country as well. And then here you are today transitioning your career from government to civilian, uh, to the civilian environment. And you've taken a lot of the skills, a lot of the experiences with you over there, and hopefully you have some effect over folks that are on that side of the aisle as well. Um, for folks out there that want to connect with you, you are on LinkedIn, right? And you are on Instagram?

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:08

I'm on Instagram. I'm I'm slowly getting back into social media. I do have these accounts, and I'm starting to try to be more active, especially in the sales role. You need to be more socially active. I'm not a big poster. I don't like to post or market, like you say. You know, like there's certain guys that do things as it's hard for me to get into social media because I don't like picking up my phone unless I have to. So I need to find either hire somebody to do my posts, but I am gonna be on social media. Reach out to me, you know. You know, I want to-there's one more story I want to tell you too. I had a great life. I really did. It was an amazing life, but it wasn't always perfect. You know, growing up in my first house in Claire Mel, I was like one of the only white kids in the block. So like, you know, there were times when I used to have to fight all the time just because they didn't like me. You know, that started my kind of like insecurity with myself. Because like they would call me cracker and I'd get in these fights and I had to learn how to fight very young. It wasn't until I got beat so bad by teenagers that my parents sold the house. Actually, they didn't even sell the house. They moved us out the very next day. We went and lived in my Omaha until we bought a new house. And then they sold the house. Because they just couldn't keep me in that environment anymore. And I don't know if you were Claremont, Florida is like very bad now. It's the crime is horrible. Like, this is a good thing. Is that down near Miami? No, it's a Tampa. It's off of a place called 78th Street in Tampa, but it is just cr high crime, a lot of shootings, drugs. Like the whole area just completely got swallowed up by that. And we got out of it, thank gosh. I mean, we got it when I was young. It that was a crazy experience. And then my dad had this, you know, he still has it. He has a disability from the military, some chemical exposure to chemicals that kind of caused him to have an imbalance. So, like, and this is me being very vulnerable because I've never talked about this in an open forum. Very few people know about this. It's very, very hush-hush in our family. We don't even talk about it. I don't think I've talked about it with my dad ever, maybe once since it happened. Um, but if he doesn't take his medication, he becomes a completely different person. Like bipolar, schizophrenic, like completely, like he would board up the windows, say that people were coming to get him, like all kinds of crazy stuff, like CIA, FBI, whatever. When I was 18 and I was touring colleges for for football, and this is another reason kind of why I chose to go as far away from Florida as I could, you know, like why I chose Wisconsin, because it was as far north as I could get away from Florida. Just a I wanted to run away. Looking back, that's why I ran away. That's why I didn't go to I could have gone to Jacksonville University, which is a D1AA school in full ride right there and but I did. They don't have football anymore, but I could have played right there close to home, you know, and played at D1 school. Or I could have walked on to USF because I had the opportunity to walk on at the time. I could have just walked on as a, I forget what they called it, something walked-on. I don't know my exact term.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:17

Um It's like a gold star walk-on or something like that, where you're special preferred walk-on, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:22

Preferred walk-on, that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. I could have came on as a preferred walk-on back then, but I chose to run away after this event. So I was up actually in Jacksonville University visiting the school, and my dad hadn't taken his meds. He was kind of acting weird. My brother was texting us. He was 16 at the time. He's like, hey, dad's acting weird. You guys got to hurry up. So me and my mom cut the trip short with Jacksonville University. We're driving back to Tampa. And when we get back to the house, we come in, we're like looking for my dad, but where is he? He's like, I don't know, I haven't seen him in an hour or so. Like, dude, you uh checked on him? He's like, no. We go in and we find this note, it's a suicide note that my dad had written out. Like all these things. It was on the table. And so we, me and my brother, we pound, we all the doors are locked. We go into my parents' room, we come around, we go into like their master bath and the bathroom door's closed, and we don't hear anything. And we're fearing the worst. Like, I'm like, dude, I'm gonna find my dad dead or whatever. So we we open the door and we start hearing this like weird like whining noise, like crying, like bawling. And my dad's there with a freaking 357 Magnum Smith and Wesson cocked with it to his head.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:36

So like I got in and I could tell you I saw it and I woke up with him on the ground.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:45

I have no idea what happened in between. I still to this day blacked out. I have no recollection of what took place. Like an angel took over, bro. Like it was crazy. And I I woke up, I snapped out of it with my dad on the ground, and somehow my brother had the gun and he took it out of the room. And I had my dad pinned to the ground while he was trying to fight me and he was crying and just trying to figure out, and I have no like it was such a crazy experience because I blacked, I don't know what happened with that time. I don't know how much time took place in between those two events. I don't know. My mom doesn't remember, my brother doesn't remember, my dad doesn't talk about it. And uh it was uh but that was a very traumatic experience. And that's when I kind of like I ran away for a while. But coming back, you know, I'm glad that I came back. And I'm glad that I became an air marshal because it happened again when I was 24, but I was already an air marshal. And I was able to catch it quick enough, and I was able to talk him into getting in the truck and going to the VA with me. Without having to escalate it. Like without having to I told him, and he, you know, at the time he's like, What do you do, handcuff me? I'm like, if I have to, like I'll do what I gotta do. Like you either get in the truck with me now, you smoke cigarettes the whole way, or I'm gonna put you in cuffs and I'm still gonna take you to the VA. It's your choice. And it just he has not had an episode since. That was the last one. I I don't know if they finally got the meds right. I don't know, because it would happen every four years. He would have these episodes. The medicine medication would stop working. And every four years he would have an episode. He pulled the shotgun on a neighbor one time when I was like 14 and tried to shoot him. Like just all these different things, but it was every four years, almost like clockwork.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:34

And it's not an episode since is he like most vets who was very resistant to going to the VA to get help?

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:42

Not anymore. Ever since before he thought he could quit taking the medicine and beat it. Because one of the downfalls or the the side effects of the medication is it makes him feel like crap. Like he has to really fight himself. To want to do life. It keeps him almost like in a sedated kind of state of mind. He's gotten better at it now, and I think maybe they got the medicine right or whatever. He's he's more engaged now than he used to be. Like with the kids and like my grandkids, like my daughters has grandkids, and like but he's still kind of like not what he used to be. He's not that fun outgoing, go throw the baseball in the backyard type of dad.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:22

And there's so many vets out there that don't get the help because they don't have the type of intervention that you and your brother had with that episode. There's a lot of vets out there, and that's why there's like they say a 22 a day hovers right around that number because there is no intervention. And lately the VA has been under a lot of scrutiny, and as far as the service connection stuff, um there's been I want to do an episode specifically about it, and I think it's complete bullshit because at the end of the day, if you hadn't showed up at that time, you wouldn't have done that, you wouldn't have a dad right now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:01

The exact moment, everything, everything played out exactly like it was supposed to do, and my hand was guided in that moment, man. It wasn't me. I had no training. I like people say, you know, you look back and like if my if a Marine Corps brother would have done it, it was training. His training kicked in, right? If me as a law enforcement officer with with training that I had, oh the training kicked in.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:24

As an 18-year-old kid, I had no training.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:26

Zero training on how to take a weapon from somebody trying to shoot themselves. Like, there's none. Like I something took my hand and made me and and it was successful. It could have gone horribly wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:37

Well, I'm glad that your your dad saw the light and finally got the help that he needed. I mean, it took me years for myself just to go to the VA because of the stigma, the stereotypes, and everything in between. I mean, if you've served a an ample amount of years and you've made a lot of really tough decisions, you don't have to go to combat to need service connection. People think that all the time. That's not the case, man. Like when you're in the military, you have to spend a lot of time away from family, miss birthdays, miss holidays, sacrifice like all kinds of stuff. Yeah, it's huge. And there were places that I didn't want to be on during times I didn't want to be there, but I had to be there and I missed out completely on life. And um it's sort of like how it was with you in LA. You're hundreds of miles away from any type of family support, and you're going through this depression, and thank God that you had your wife here and your kids and everything to be some type of uh pillar of support for you. Um, you know, because we all need family, man, and the military a lot of times pulls you away from that, and you we really need each other. So God bless that you were able to be there at that time to grab your dad's hand and to have that intervention with him and get him the helping needs. Um I'm glad that you shared that story at the very end because um that just shows the type of person that you are, you and your brother and your parents, they've got to be mightily proud of both of you for being the uh grown men that you are today. Um I know that I am. Um very proud of you, your professionalism, the fact that you're able to pivot, fall, and land on your feet. Um George, it's it's meant the world to me that you've stayed in contact with me um all these years later. And uh I just want to thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:30

No, you're one of the good ones, brother. My my phone is always open to you anytime you know that.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:35

I appreciate it. I appreciate that. And if anyone out there is listening, you know, if you listen to George George's story today and you'd like to connect with him, you can find him on LinkedIn, uh George Gammon, I would guess. No middle initial or nothing like that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:49

There no, it's George Gammon, but there are there are there is another George Gammon out there. He's a financial like guru, not that one. So the the heavier said guy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:00

The non-financial guru, George Gammon. And then you're also on Instagram. I'll do my best to put in the show notes um and the uh descriptions and I'll I'll collab with you on the Instagram as well. Um, because people out there kind of digest their connections differently on the different types of social media that they that they use out there. But George, we've been talking for almost an hour and a half now, man. Um I hope that we can do this again some other time, man, when you've hit a hit a new milestone. Um and we're recording this on a Monday, and we've got we're a couple hours away from the big game, Indiana versus Miami. Who do you got? Yep. Go Canes, baby. Go Canes, let's go. I'm about to put some money down on that one because at the end of the day, like I'm always about the underdog. Indiana is so heavily favored in that game right now, man.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:51

Um if that Miami D shows up, it's gonna be an interesting game.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:55

Let's see who shows up. It'll be interesting, man. Yeah. Well, let me let you go so you can go grab your wings and uh get your family together and go enjoy that game. But George, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to pick your brain and learn a little bit more about you and where you've been and where you're going. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:11

Nah, brother. Thanks for the opportunity, man. You have a great one. Thanks, buddy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:26:14

Hey, and for everyone else out there, as always, I want you to stay tuned, stay focused, and stay motivated. Warriors, all out.