Does Anyone Remember What We Were Talking About? (Part 2)

We kid, we kid. On this week's episode we finally finish the covering the case from the documentary, Trust Me: The False Prophet.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hello everybody, I'm Casey Forbes. And I'm Sarah Cooviam. And welcome to Let the Good Crumbs Roll. It's been a minute. For the first time in forever.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Girl, we harmonize like just insane. Get back, baby. I know. I know. We were just kind of going over what's going on the last month.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

And if you haven't seen each other in a hot minute.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

That's the thing about Sarah and I is Sarah and I we're more like sisters in the fact that we could go two months without talking. Not personal, it's just life. And then we just pick up wherever we left. Life happens. So if you haven't been on any of my socials, first of all, ugh. Second of all, I am opening a business. Casey is a business owner. Business owner. June 16th is our grand opening in Central. Please come check us out. I'm so excited. Me too. I've never liked a job before and I like this one. And Sarah has been traveling.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah. I've been to the beach, obviously. Went to Disney. You know, I'm back for the moment. Yeah, and you're in school. So that's well, I'm actually on summer break right now. So thank God.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Are you taking so you're gonna take a full summer break this summer? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yes. You go, girl. I have been sleeping in and I have been loving it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

It's just it's one, it's fabulous. Yeah. Fabulous. So yeah. And then so my book is going to be the plan is to have it published and some copies available the first Tuesday in August. And I was my editor wanted me to query it, which is like you query it to get a literary agent because a lot of the big publishers won't like let you submit things without representation. Yeah. And I just don't want to do that. So what do you mean, query it? You go to a website and you you look up literary agents who are open for submissions that are taking new submissions at the time, and you submit a query letter. So it's like you it has like points on it. You say, like, oh, my book is comparable to like Abby Jimenez, this is the premise. And then they may say, Oh, well, it might take three months for someone to respond. And they may say, Oh, well, you know, send me a little bit. And I'm just like, I don't want to do that because like my dream, my passion is like my bookstore. Yeah. And writing is something I do for fun. And I just want to get it out there. Yeah. I just I'm proud of it. I've spent a lot of money on an editor. I've also spent a lot of money on cover artists. So it is not AI. Thank y'all very much. There's AI has not touched my book. I don't want no one going like, oh, this is terrible. It must be AI. No, it's me. Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

If you think it's terrible, it is C.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Yes. If you don't like it, it's just because I'm a bad writer. Okay. No. It's down the drain bad writer. So I know that we left y'all on a clear thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Even Sirius, like, so what are we doing? I'm like, I know it was part two of something, but I do not have a clue where we left off, what it was about.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Okay. So if you don't know what we are doing, it is the case of the FLDS women. The source is Trust Me, the False Prophet. And today we're covering episodes three and four. I watched this. You did watch it. Okay. So you kind of have a clue. Yes. I mean, basically, Warren Jeff's. It's not Jeffries. I want to call him Warren Jeffries for some reason.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

And I think I said, wait, isn't it Jeffers? We were both wrong.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

We were both wrong. You cannot cannot rely on either one of us when it comes to names. We did not research it at all. At all. We heard it and we just took a guess. Warren Jeffs has been put into prison, and there Bill Bobaggen's long distant cousin named Sam Bateman stepped into the role, and he's just trying to say that he is the new prophet, and a bunch of people fell for it. Yeah. Except for And he's so gross. Oh my god, it just never changes his clothes. He wears the same standard black blue jeans and weird-looking button-up white shirt. He has to tuck it in. Yeah. And the buttons on a shirt are just holding on for your life the whole time. It's just ridiculous. So if you don't know what this is about, go back to the last episode. It was from like four months ago. Sorry about that. So on July 28th, 2022, a woman named Julia started to talk to Christina. Julia is a member of the community. Christina and her husband Tolga are the documentarians who came in under the guise of being documentarian. He's a video music producer, so he knows how to do it, but she has a degree in psychology. She went to this community because she felt compelled to go and help them. Right. Because she herself was in this type of environment before as well. What she had to say wasn't easy to hear, but it validated what Christina already knew about Sam. He wasn't the new vessel of the prophet. It was all affront. Like, no shit, Sherlock. What a twist. None of us are surprised. Right, right. Color me shocked. You know. To start, Sam had no job. Along with the money he took from the male followers, it was a requirement of his wives to work. On good days and bad, they cleaned hotels and Airbnbs. It didn't matter if they were sick or heavily pregnant, they'd pack their babies and they would work. And I'm not saying, oh, it's sad that they're working. I'm saying that he sat his frumpy ass on a couch all day long demanding that they pay the bills. Along with his male followers who are Moroni, Torrance, and Liddell. And I'm like, if I ever write a fantasy novel, those are like the great for some trolls or something. Yeah. When they were at home, besides cooking and cleaning, they had to idolize Sam. He'd have them write in journals and drape themselves all over him. And some of the things that they would write were like, we love Sam. He's like, I need y'all to convince yourselves that I'm not grotesque and worthy of your love. Sam was married to a few of Julia's daughters, something she never agreed to. Her husband, Moroni, and like, what is that name? I just want to say macaroni. I don't know why. Was a staunch supporter of Sam and believed it to be an honor to give his daughters away. He believed in him so much that he threatened to take his and Julia's toddler son away if she didn't go along with what Samuel wanted. They were even presented with guardianship papers in the event that Julia didn't get her shit together. Julia was hesitant to speak to Christine, let alone Christine's contact with the FBI, a girl by the name of Dawn. By August of 2022, Julia realized it was the only chance she had to save her children. Julia is the other unsung hero of this entire show because you have to think, her entire life, she has been bred to believe that she is not allowed to have a voice. She is not allowed to think or question anything. And she was so bothered by what was going on with her daughters that she was willing to risk everything, being shunned from this community to save them. And I just think that is so inspiring. Because think if you were in that situation.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

I mean, if you've been indoctrinated to think that way your entire life, to have the audacity to think differently, yeah, is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

To think that you like you're going to burn in hell for all eternity if you question anything. That takes a lot of courage. Yeah. So Julia spoke. Sam Bateman forced minor girls to participate in horrendous sex acts. He forced them onto birth control to prevent pregnancy. And I'm going to spare y'all the details because they go into details and I'm like, it's gross. Yeah. Not with him. No. No one was Henry Cavill. But I mean, like, I mean, if Henry Cavill was the new prophet, I'd be like, Do I believe he's the prophet? No. Am I willing to not risk it? I mean, okay. Yeah. Okay, prophet. Yeah. I'd be that girl draped all over. I'm like, this is my prophet. Yeah. So Dawn was stunned. The problem, she needed a victim to come forward and corroborate the claims. Christine and Julia had to continue the is it charade or charade? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

It's it's facade. Remember? It's facade and then charade. Okay.

unknown 8:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Swear to goodness.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Like I was listening to an audiobook and he said a charade.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

And I was like, I think the British say it that way. That's what it was. I'm not saying it wrong. Okay. They had to continue the charade.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

You said that in just like conversation with fellas. No, I can avoid that word because I don't know how to say it. And so I just got, I'm like, he was just being fake. Yeah. He was wearing a mask. Yeah. I don't say that word at all. I don't know why I typed it out on here when I don't even know how to say the damn word. Um so these two women had to pretend like they liked Sam. And as a girl who has resting bitch face, kudos to both of them. Yeah. Because I'd be like, uh-huh, you know, like just angry like a bulldog. Julia documented everything, but she couldn't disguise how she felt. Same girl. Sam noticed, and before long, she was sent away. To make matters worse, Sam convinced Julia's daughters that she was evil. So, like even her own daughters cut her off. Sam and his followers had two homes. There was the blue house and the greenhouse. And they kept saying the greenhouse. I'm like, is that where they grow their flowers? No, it is painted green. They kept saying, like, they're raiding the greenhouse and the warehouse. And I'm like, oh, when did they greenhouse? Then it occurred to me it's painted green. Okay, just so y'all are caught up. There were 22 women and children plus Sam sleeping in one bedroom. No one besides Sam and his wives were allowed into the greenhouse. Yeah. Can you imagine how funky that probably smelled? Oh my god. That just smelled like sweat. You just know it did. Sam became increasingly insecure and wouldn't allow any of the male followers to be alone or interact with his wives, some of whom were the fathers of his wives. He went so far as to demean the male followers by insulting and punishing them and making them live in the basement of the home that they paid for.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Yeah. That these men were like, here's millions of dollars. We learned in the last episode, one of them had like a really lucrative job. So he had to put on his manager hat and be like a boss. But you know, at home he was just a big little weasel living in a basement. Like, girl. Christine's role in the I call it a cult. I'm sorry, y'all. I'm so sorry. It is one. You can see how angry I am as I'm typing my notes down. Christine's role had to continue, but it drained her. She was repulsed by what she knew about Samuel, but without a statement from one of his wives, the FBI would not make an arrest. Guilt gnawed away at her as she continued to deceive the girls that she'd grown so fond of. She knew once her intentions were revealed, Sam's wives would never look at her the same. But she continued feeling it was the right thing to do, even after a child was named after her.

unknown 11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

If someone walked in and was like, meet my daughter Casey, knowing what I know I'm doing, my answer sweet.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Imagine like the emotional like energy, like the mental energy to fake that. It takes day in and day out. Well, she genuinely cared about these people. She did. She did, but she also had to make them think that she was she believed in what they were doing right. Like that's that takes a lot.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

It does. So this is where things get a little a little hilarious. Sam's ego continued to inflate, and he approached Christine and her producer husband, Tolga, about making a music video starring him and his wives.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

I forgot about the music video. All of his wives. How did he come up with this idea?

unknown 12:29

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I'm just, I mean, none of it makes sense to me, but it doesn't. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. So freaking random. Yes. That is so it's so random.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

It's just random. And why the Queen of England? Why the Queen? Like, this is the 2000s. So it wasn't like she was like in the 1970s in this young. Like, she's like a hundred years old. Yeah. She probably couldn't even like hear the music. You know what I mean? Like, what the hell? So Tolga and Christine directed it. Each of the wives wore these gaudy crowns and sang ridiculously off-key. While the wives were dressed in the handmaid's tales best, Sam wore his standard black jeans and button-up shirt that he liked to tuck in despite his bulbous stomachs protest. Christine intentionally arranged the girls a certain way to capture just how young some of them were. Sam refused, though, to take individual pictures with each girl. He was paranoid because that's how Warren Jeff's ultimately was captured. These single pictures with these young girls. Five weeks passed since the time Julia had spoken to the FBI. Her off-put demeanor began to raise eyebrows, in particular, Sam and her husband Moronies. Sam threatened to take away Julia's toddler again if she didn't change her attitude. To make matters worse, Sam had begun acquiring passports for all of the wives. Feared that he'd run, the FBI obtained a search warrant. But when they attempted to execute it, Sam and his wives, including the underage ones, were gone. This is insane. On August 28th, 2022, police in Flagstaff, Arizona began receiving frantic calls about tiny fingers poking out the back of a trailer. These little bitty fingers holding the trailer door shut on the interstate.

unknown 14:15

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

When the truck and trailer were pulled over, police discovered Sam hauling multiple women in the truck and underage girls hidden in the trailer. And let me just say something. For these being quote unquote Christian people, they got some filthy mouths. Wow. I didn't know they knew what the F-word was, but boy, they do. Yep. They do. When he was questioned, he remained elusive, not answering basic questions. Sam was arrested, and the wives became belligerent toward law enforcement. All wore these rings, and they weren't anything special. They were like strings on their wedding fingers, including a 14-year-old girl. Jody's daughters were with him, and she was called to pick them up. The FBI contacted Flagstaff police and requested he not let go. And so the wives called Tolga and Christine. On camera, the girls admitted the reason they were holding the door shut was because it wasn't secured properly. Sam's bond was set at $150,000 and one of his followers paid it in cash. Can you believe? Can you believe that? You know they threw him in jail when the FBI said that they're like, okay, we'll just do $150,000. Yeah, you don't pay that. Right. They're like, what the hell? Some dude walk in with a briefcase full of cash. Was it Morona? I think it was Torrens. Torrents. He's the green elf that I'm gonna write about. The green elf.

unknown 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

While they allowed him out on bail, the FBI kept his cell phone. Of course, you know, Christine and Tolgar are like documenting everything. And this ding dong admits to factory resetting the phone on camera. And Christine captured it all. So Christine became very frustrated when Sam was reunited with his wives, and he began claiming to be this mart martyr and being persecuted for his beliefs. And they all were like, Yes, this is your just the the next worn Jeff like girls. Like besides these little these hairdo's, I just can't with the hairdo's. Like, what is the what is the wave thing? Yeah, you know. It's the wave. Like these girls like this wave. Like they're going, they're going back to like the 1920s, but they're doing it wrong. Like those were those were like feminists who were had short hair when the waves. These are like girls who have waves, it's like mullets with a wave in the front. That's what I said. Yeah. Sorry, girls. Don't worry, they all got rid of the wave mullets. Christine had become very close to the wives. She knew they'd be angry with her for taking part in this betrayal, but it was to save them, just like she needed to be saved herself. The toll of betraying his these wives began to drain her emotionally, though. When Sam returned home, he relayed his message that there was a mole amongst them. And you know, like Julia and Tolga and Christine are all just sitting there like thumbing their thumb. You can leave some molecule. Piece together that like everything he got arrested for was on camera.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Right. That's what, like only one person on camera. That blows my mind is that he didn't nobody automatically suspected Christine and Tolka. The ones with the cameras.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Like he was always not that interesting. That one of his wives said I grew suspicious because they just kept asking him the same questions over and over again. It kind of felt like an interrogation. But he was too stupid to recognize that. It was no matter, however, as the NBI arrested Sam on obstruction of justice charges, using the video evidence of him admitting to factory resetting his cell phone. Hello. We don't know who the mole is. Um a raid was planned with the help of Julia, Tolga, and Christine. They filmed every square inch of the two homes and the warehouse, not because it was decorated pretty, but to give like a layout to the FBI. So when they stormed in, they wouldn't know where to go. Christine warned the FBI to be cautious with the wives. It was no secret that Sam owned guns and the wives had been taught how to use them. And then while I'm sure shut their mouths off a lot, they're like, ain't nobody coming in here.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Where'd you ever spray? Yeah. They were like ready to like defend the fort here. They were like ready to like burn things down before well when they get taken.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

When Sam got arrested in Arizona, Christine took them shopping and they were like, Wow, this is amazing. I'm like, you know, you could have this all the time, right? All the time. Right. Instead of like shooting the police who were trying to bring you to that, why don't you just go, oh, welcome in. So okay. Yeah. Naomi, or Gnomes, as they called her, was one of the most adamant believers in Sam. And at the end of the episode, she walks into the interview room wearing gentile clothes and is ready to tell her story. And that's where episode three ends. So we're gonna pick up with episode four. Now, if you remember from you probably don't because it was like seven months ago. In part one and part two, Gnomes was the one that she kept saying she did not want to be with him.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

I mean, he really recruited her entire family to get her to go. And I think Morona is her uncle, and he finally convinced her to go. So she embraced him and she truly believed that he was the way to heaven for her. Yeah. Was convinced of this. The FBI wanted to separate Sam from his wives during the raid. Christine and Tolga asked him if he'd be willing to do a sit-down one-on-one interview, and never wanted to pass up an opportunity to talk about himself. Sam agreed. The goal of the raid was to gather evidence of sexual misconduct with underage girls. On the morning of the raid, Tolga and Sam met at the warehouse incredibly early while Christine went to one of one of the two houses. And the girls were like, We thought it was weird. She showed up at like six in the morning. Like she hadn't come across as a morning person. Like, what is she doing here? The calm of the house unnerved Christine as she knew what was about to come. She was terrified how the raid was going to go. And her goal of being there was to convince the girls to peacefully go with the police and talk to them. The camera was rolling when the knock came and the FBI stormed into the warehouse, arresting Sam and taking him away. And I was like, this is so this just feels good to watch. I love feel good TV. Meanwhile, police moved in on the wives. Christine was able to keep the situation peaceful, walking each girl out one by one. The wives' phones were taken as evidence. Adult wives were sent off to be interviewed, while nine underage girls were brought to Phoenix, where they were placed in a group home by DCS. Everyone lied. No one told the truth. And Dawn says it was blatantly obvious that nobody was telling the truth. Once released, many of the wives stayed with Christine. Tolga and Christine had to play coy when the girls began speaking about someone within their community feeding information to the FBI.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

So still at this point, they're still not putting together that it's Christine Tolga.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

I think they all thought it was Joya.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

I genuinely do because Joya was kind of shunned by this people. Yeah. And Joya's like, I did feed some, but you know, this made no sense to me. I don't understand it. While the raid provided a lot of evidence, no underage victims would talk, so they didn't arrest that he was arrested on obstruction of justice charges. Yeah. But not on these sexual abuse charges. I mean, like they found, I believe, child pornography. Ooh. I mean, there were journals, and she said it was a whole big thing of. Evidence to support the claim that he was sexually abusing underage girls. So I wonder why they wouldn't press those charges. I don't know. But five weeks after Sam's arrest, one of the underage girls in the group home discovered correspondence between DCFS and the group home, the group home contact implicating Christine as the mole.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

And all I can say is, you don't own a shredder. I was thinking it was like away right there in plain sight. And what but what y'all can't you can't send a text? And who named Christine? Like out like why it was written text on this. Yeah. I mean, hello, we've got email. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

It made no sense. I was like, this is the dumbest thing. Like, damn DCFS. They weren't good for nothing. So all hell broke loose. And Christine, Tolga, and Julia began receiving hateful texts, phone calls from Sam's wives. The three were devastated. These texts were horrendous. Yeah. I'm like, y'all, that is that the Holy Spirit coming out of you. That's not Jesus. That's the devil. Like, I don't like the F-word. You know what I mean? One night, Julia's husband Moroni, asked Julia to take a ride. She didn't hold back. And to her surprise, he agreed that he had failed his daughters. The FBI offered Moroni a plea deal in exchange for a confession, and he accepted. In prison, Sam was able to communicate with his wives because get this. As long as he has followers willing to put money in his account, he can have video phone calls with whomever he chooses, including his underage wives. How is that possible? That's insane. But he convinces three of his adult wives to kidnap his underage wives and keep them hidden. They do a really shitty job. I'm not gonna lie. Joya's daughter Moretta, Gnomes, and a third wife kidnapped eight girls aged 11 to 16. They were split up. Gnomes brought her girls to the greenhouse in Colorado City when they were spotted because she brought them back to their house. Yeah. Damn it, Gnomes. Gnomes ran and she spent the night in a barn. It was freezing and it was miserable. And she turned herself in the next morning and said, piss on this. It's too girl, me too.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I was gonna say, I did not hear that. Like an hour later, leaving a hay bale.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

I'm like, give me a warm bed. Yeah. This hay bale is like it, the hay is sticking me. It itches. No. So Moretta brought the remaining girls to Spokane, Washington, and the FBI was easily able to track them down because Torrance used his credit card to pay for an air, B and B. Oh you're dumb. So Moretta Gnomes and the third wife were put in jail where they were actually set free. They said, apart from Sam's brainwashing, they began questioning everything. Five months in, Gnomes had a court hearing date. They bring her to the courthouse where she's put into a cell. Ding dong, Sam, is next to her, and he preaches for four hours. And she was like, Oh my god, this dude's a liar. Um, she is also a crazy talented artist. They showed some of her drawings, and I'm like, girl, that is incredible. The underage girls were each separated, and with that separation, they started to speak. They admitted that Sam had taken advantage of them sexually, threatening punishment if they didn't want to participate. And I will say this one of the things that's discussed in the show was that Sam would have like these group sessions where there would be fathers and daughters in the same room.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

It's so gross. It's so gross. I forgot about that part. Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

I'm just like, how like, why is the father okay with this? I mean, the daughter probably didn't know she had a choice. Yeah. But why is the father like it's disgusting? It's disgusting. Like my dad puts 12 locks on his door when he like, when he when he's like sleeping because he's scared someone's gonna walk in on him in his underwear. And I'm I just thank him every time. I'm like, thank you, Jesus. I ain't never seen you naked. I never would thank you, Lord. Kendall, right there. Yeah. All nine underage girls played a key role in locking Sam up. Upon his conviction, he was sentenced to 50 years in prison. Morona, I remember, accepted a plea deal, but he got 25 years in prison. Yeah. While Torrance and Liddell were sentenced to 35 years in prison, and they mentioned that some of the wives, the older wives, got years in prison as well. I don't know what part they played.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

They didn't really go into that. Probably some kind of facilitation of like the underage girls. Maybe so. You know?

SPEAKER_01 26:42

Because I think Gnomes and Moretta and them, they were kind of underage themselves when they started. Yeah. Naomi adapted to life outside of the cults and reconnected with Christine and Tolga. She's in college studying psychology, and she's very similar to Christine. Their stories are identical almost. Moretta returned to her mother, Julia, who wants her daughters to think for themselves and to be brave enough to do the right thing. And the saddest part of all is many of Sam's followers continue to believe he is still their prophet. Can you believe that? Just look at him. Can you believe that? You know, the prophet can go into anybody he wants, and he chose that one. Really?

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Like you, I mean, you you were pretty spot on with your description of him, too. With like ball and ball? The physical, yeah. The physical description of him. He's horrendous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

He's not gonna choose that. No, he's gonna choose like some six-foot fine looking man. We love Henry Kevin. You know who else I love is Alan Richmond, the guy that plays Reacher. And they were both in a movie. They were in a movie together. They were, and my husband's like, I want to watch this movie. I'm like, oh put it all. Sure. I'm good if you're good.

unknown 27:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So, y'all, we are gonna try our best to get y'all episodes out. Don't be mad at us if we don't. We are very busy and we do not get paid to do this. So, um, if you would like to pay us to do this, we would love to figure out a way to monetize this or like set up a Patreon where maybe you could pay like five dollars a month and we could put out extra episodes every month. But I know we have to kind of like prove ourselves so we can see you can get a one out a week. So if that's something you're interested in, we'd love to hear from you. Now that my store is officially opening, I feel like it's starting to settle down a little bit because there's just so much red tape you have to cross to get a business going. Absolutely, which is insane to me. But okay, y'all. Well, I'm sweating. I know it is a little warm, it's warm, and I'm in perimenopause. So um, yeah, we will talk to y'all next time. Bye guys.