The Center's Studio Podcast

Juilliard's Opera Whisperer: Darrell Babidge

December 01, 2019 Center for Latter-day Saint Arts Season 2 Episode 12
The Center's Studio Podcast
Juilliard's Opera Whisperer: Darrell Babidge
Show Notes Transcript

New Juilliard vocal faculty member, Darrell Babidge, discusses his career of training a generation of the world's opera singers. He discusses what it is like to be a vocal teacher of these elite musicians, what his voice lessons are like, and how he works with singers to perfect their craft. The interview is peppered with magnificent performances of his renown students, including Rachel Willis-Sørensen, Shea Owens, and Rebecca Pederson. The discussion includes an acknowledgement of the prominence today of LDS opera singers at the most important opera houses in the world and imagines what that critical mass of talent might mean for the culture itself. To conclude, Darrell is also heard performing the lead role of The Book of Gold, an opera by Murray Boren about Joseph Smith and the publication of the Book of Mormon. 

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Glen Nelson:

Hello and welcome to another episode in the Center's Studio Podcast. I'm your host Glen Nelson. Today I'm sitting on campus at one of the premier performing arts conservatories in the world, The Juilliard School, at Lincoln Center in New York City. On August 29th, 2019 Juilliard announced the appointment of Darrell Babidge to its distinguished voice faculty, and I'm with Darell today across the street from the Metropolitan Opera. Pretty swanky real estate.

Darrell Babidge:

Not bad.

Glen Nelson:

Your professional credits go in two directions: as a baritone and frequent performer on opera and concert stages yourself; and as a vocal teacher having become over the last dozen years, a powerhouse in your field. For our chat today, let's mostly focus on teaching because that's the newsiest part of your story right now I guess, and I think it's something that most people don't understand very well. Does that strike you as okay?

Darrell Babidge:

It sounds great because you know, cause I think I've taken off the performing hat.

Glen Nelson:

You have?

Darrell Babidge:

I think I have.

Glen Nelson:

Do people here even know that about you?

Darrell Babidge:

I don't think they care.[Laughs.]

Glen Nelson:

You're just one of a million. A little bit of background for our listeners. From 2006 to 2019, Babidge was on the voice faculty at Brigham Young University. He also kept a private studio and taught the Utah Opera Resident Artists and Arizona Opera Studio Artists programs. During the summer, he is a vocal coach with Dolora Zajick at the Institute for Young Dramatic Voices. Is that in Las Vegas?

Darrell Babidge:

It's in Reno.

Glen Nelson:

Astoundingly, his students sing in the major opera houses throughout the world, including legendary stages in London, Barcelona, Dresden, Munich, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, Genova, Vienna, Seattle, Houston, San Francisco, and the Metropolitan Opera in New York City. His students have also been accepted into young artist and summer programs, including at the Metropolitan Opera, Houston Grand Opera, San Francisco Opera, Merola Opera Program, Glimmerglass Festival, Tanglewood, Wolf Trap Opera, Santa Fe Opera, Central City Opera, Aspen Music Festival, Music Academy of the West, Ravinia Festival, and Chautauqua Opera.

Darrell Babidge:

[Laughs.]

Glen Nelson:

That's not necessarily in order of importance, but...

Darrell Babidge:

No, no. That's fine. I guess...

Glen Nelson:

Wait a minute, I'm going to ask a question in a second.

Darrell Babidge:

I'll be quiet.

Glen Nelson:

I'm recapping.

Darrell Babidge:

Recap away.

Glen Nelson:

... That’s a big deal because those programs are all farm teams for the world’s stages. Babidge’s students are winners of many competitions, including the Metropolitan Opera National Council, George London Foundation for Singers, Operalia, Eleanor McCollum(Houston Grand Opera), and Licia-Albanese Puccini competition. And that’s an incredible achievement because competitions remain the primary way that opera singers are discovered. Two of his students have also recorded for Decca and Deutsche Grammophon, with one recent recording nominated for a Grammy. That’s just incredible, Darrell. What goes through your mind as I read all of those things? That's just incredible to read through that, Darrell.

Darrell Babidge:

That's why I laugh.

Glen Nelson:

I mean, what goes through what goes through your mind as I'm saying all this stuff?

Darrell Babidge:

That's why I laugh. Is that me? Is that what happened in the last few years? It's interesting to hear all that because I love what I do. That's my point. I love what I do and yes, you could say, you know, the--I don't know if accolades is the right word or not--but I'm having a fun time teaching and it's fun to hear. It's weird to hear that. Because it's like, did I teach them? Yeah, that's how I feel.

Glen Nelson:

My guess is that you've been on Juilliard's radar for awhile now. You can't have student after student in the Met Opera Council Finals without getting noticed. One is a fluke, but a dozen means something else.

Darrell Babidge:

It's not a dozen.

Glen Nelson:

But it was like every year.

Darrell Babidge:

No it wasn't. You can say that, but it wasn't every year. But if that's how you sense it, I'll go with that. But no, it wasn't. It wasn't every year and it wasn't that many, but thank you.

Glen Nelson:

Your publicist...

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, whoever that is, is very...

Glen Nelson:

Is on your little left shoulder saying,"No, take it."[Laughs.] Okay. So how does it feel to be back in New York and working here at Juilliard?

Darrell Babidge:

It's really strange because we lived just two blocks away from where I work. We lived on 63rd and West End Avenue. So it's like our stomping around.

Glen Nelson:

When you first got married, you mean?

Darrell Babidge:

So we first got married, and we moved to 63rd and West End for the last five years of when we lived in New York. So this is where we were strolling our two young boys. So it is strange to be working here. And we don't live here. We live way out.

Glen Nelson:

You're suburban?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, we live in suburbia. Yeah.

Glen Nelson:

So what's the best thing about being back and teaching here, for example?

Darrell Babidge:

Ah, good question.

Glen Nelson:

Oh, one of many to come.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. I know. It's kind of hard to define what that is because I'm still very,... I'm the new kid on the block here, so I'm trying to work out how I fit into the scene here. But outside of teaching, which I love doing, I mean I feel very at home. I don't feel overwhelmed by this responsibility, but it is fun to be back in the old neighborhood again. But no, I love it here. I love it.

Glen Nelson:

Let's take a step back and talk about what you do. So you train vocal artists. Is that only classical music artists or have you worked with lots of different kinds of singers?

Darrell Babidge:

I probably say they're mostly classical, but I've had students that have been on"The Voice" and"America's Got Talent," and I do all genres, but I probably specialize more in classical.

Glen Nelson:

So a student right now, what kind of career would they most be looking for?

Darrell Babidge:

Well, everybody wants the big time. That's the sensibility of a student right now. And I think just the way things are with wanting things right now and the immediacy of everything. Everybody wants to sing at the Met. That's, that's the vibe that I get now. That's not a reality. It's just not.

Glen Nelson:

You don't have Broadway people, though. These are mostly...

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah. Right now, mostly classical.

Glen Nelson:

I think we need to hear a bunch of music today. So who should we listen to first? How about Rachel Willis-Sørensen?

Darrell Babidge:

Good.

Glen Nelson:

Okay, let's go. Here is the aria from Dvorak’s opera,"Rusalka," a fairy tale of a water sprite not all that different from"The Little Mermaid." This is the title character’s“Song to the Moon,” from Act I. What is something that we might be listening for?

Darrell Babidge:

It's interesting because this was the aria that converted me to opera. Back in the day, it was Lucia Popp--heard it on the radio. And I was not young. I was in my twenties. I didn't study music until I was 25. And, I was thinking,"Ah, I get it. I get it. This is stunning singing in a beautiful aria." So it's kind of come full circle. You're listening for opulence of sound. That's what I'm listening for. That's my goal as a teacher and hope, you know, beauty and a big sound.

Glen Nelson:

Let's listen.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdGyxyFGW9w]. Well, that's a voice I could listen to forever.

Darrell Babidge:

Right? Right.

Glen Nelson:

What makes it so unique?

Darrell Babidge:

When you listen to her sing, there is,... I always say to her--because, you know, she has regular lessons with me, still, so we're always technique-ing. 110% technique, I say. And then when you're on stage, I don't want to think about technique. There's something special that you do, Rachel, that no one else does.

Glen Nelson:

You don't want them thinking about technique?

Darrell Babidge:

No, too late. It's too late.

Glen Nelson:

Ah, interesting. Ok, keep going.

Darrell Babidge:

Auditions maybe, you know, but in a performance you've got to do your thing and just kind of let go. And then I say 85% technique is what I want to hear. And then I'm good.

Glen Nelson:

So is it muscle memory then?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes.

Glen Nelson:

You know what to do. Just do what you do.

Darrell Babidge:

And what can happen is that when someone gets very dramatic, they can go a little over the top and kind of lose technique, but sometimes that's okay. If the audience are drawn in, it's fine. But I'm always listening for the beauty of sound.

Glen Nelson:

She's having quite a career.

Darrell Babidge:

She is. It's really taken off in the last couple of years.

Glen Nelson:

That must make you quite proud, or are you super jaded, like,"Ho-hum, another student of mine is singing at Covent Garden..."?

Darrell Babidge:

Oh no, no, no, not at all. And see, I've taught Rachel now for 13 years. It is wonderful to see the arc of her career and the repertoire that wasn't always right. And now she works with an agent that really knows her repertoire superbly and is just all fitting in really well.

Glen Nelson:

Has she sung"Rusalka" before?

Darrell Babidge:

No, but it's interesting that role as well as Marschallin in"Der Rosenkavalier"--they're ones that in the lessons I would say,"There's nothing I can do. It's just..."

Glen Nelson:

It's just inevitable.

Darrell Babidge:

"It speaks into your instrument. So not much I can do there." But lots of other roles we have to work technically on.

Glen Nelson:

Well let's talk a little bit about vocabulary. I hear people talk about vocal coaches and voice teachers. What do those terms"coach" and"teacher" mean?

Darrell Babidge:

That's a good question. So at vocal coach, in theory...

Glen Nelson:

[Whispers] A second good question.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Second. It might be a third.[Laughs.] The vocal coach is style, language, and the genre of a piece, which I guess fits in with style. But if they have good ears, they're going to talk about things that they might want to be working through vocally without saying the words,"Let's work on your technique." Because that's not in their job description to work on technique, but someone that's got a good teacher is going to know what the coach is requiring of them to do.

Glen Nelson:

So let's say a coach, if someone is doing a role and it's really stiff, then it would be the vocal coach who would help work on that?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes and no. When you say stiff, do you mean like they're not just letting go, physically?

Glen Nelson:

Yeah, just in performance.

Darrell Babidge:

No. In theory that would be them having an acting coach. But I can kind of work on that in the lesson if I feel that they've not got that. So a vocal coach is really theoretically style, language, and just helping them work through things musically.

Glen Nelson:

And on your business card--I don't know if such a thing exists--you're in the vocal teacher category.

Darrell Babidge:

I'm in technique. So I mean technique, therapist.[Laughs.]

Glen Nelson:

Because at the school they have people who are just language, they have people who specialize in acting...

Darrell Babidge:

The coach will be able to do... His umbrella is all of those things. I should say their things.

Glen Nelson:

How did you learn to do what you do? So your degree's in vocal performance, right? How does a voice teacher learn how to be a voice teacher?

Darrell Babidge:

I don't know. And I say that with as much innocence as,... I just don't know the answer to that question. You'll have pedagogy classes at university, and you'll have classes about how to teach a student. But I think,... I don't know the answer your question.

Glen Nelson:

Do you think of what you do as"a method"? The Babidge Method of Vocal Technique?

Darrell Babidge:

Another good question.

Glen Nelson:

See.

Darrell Babidge:

Another good question. This is what I think is a compliment to my teaching is that I have never heard anybody say,"Oh that singer has a Babidge stamp." And I tell you why that's a good thing is because my goal is for the singer to ultimately produce their authentic, natural sound. So when someone says,"Oh, they have really healthy technique, oh and that's a Babidge student," that's what I want to hear. But sometimes you'll hear a singer go,"Oh, I hear that they have this thing that this teacher does with them..." That's not a good thing. I don't think so. No. There's no stamp to my technique. I'm hoping that it is natural and free singing with opulence. My goal is have opulence.

Glen Nelson:

Your students are men and women, all different vocal types, high and low, high. Do you teach them the same way or is it not really about their voice type, but rather just their own specific instrument?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, and this is why I can't..., someone said to me,"Oh, you should write a book about your teaching." I said,"There's no way I could do that." Because I don't know what I do[laughs]. Because every person that comes into this room--because we were in a vocal studio right now-- everybody that comes into this room,... it's almost like, you know, the movie,"Ghost," where a Whoopi Goldberg is possessed when she does the seance thing, or whatever it is?

Glen Nelson:

Theoretically. It's been a while.

Darrell Babidge:

Right. Well, have you seen the movie,"Ghost"?

Glen Nelson:

I saw the Broadway show, which was horrendously bad.

Darrell Babidge:

Let me tell you, there's a movie called"Ghost." It's very good. And anyway, she's like in a seance until something, whatever. I don't know why I had this image in my head, but when she's finished, suddenly she gets like de-possessed of whatever it was that came in the room to help give the message to whoever, whatever. But it's almost like I have to put on a completely different persona for each student that comes in the room.

Glen Nelson:

Really?

Darrell Babidge:

I just react differently because of completely different personalities. Someone's having a bad day, a good day, high maintenance, low maintenance. They come in crying...

Glen Nelson:

You're adapting.

Darrell Babidge:

... as soon as they walk in the door, and I'm like,"Oh, here we go. I've got to work out what to do in the next 45 minutes." But technically every person is different. So I don't have a hard and fast technique for every student. Yeah, just very different information coming. It's innate how I...

Glen Nelson:

Do you consider yourself to have really good ears?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes.

Glen Nelson:

Yeah. So I would imagine that would be one thing--and I don't know how you train yourself to have good ears--that would be one thing that good teachers have to have.

Darrell Babidge:

So in fairness, I think I got my ears from a really good teacher that I had in New York called Trish McCaffrey. And Jenny, my wife, and I both had lessons with her, and I sat in on all of Jenny's lessons. She's the one that really heightened my sense of what to listen for.

Glen Nelson:

When you're listening to somebody, can you turn off the critical brain and just actually enjoy it?

Darrell Babidge:

I can always do that at church on Sunday. If someone sings a solo in church, and they're really a bad singer, I never think of critiquing them. I actually love it.

Glen Nelson:

What about in performance? At an opera stage, can you go and just enjoy it?

Darrell Babidge:

No. Never.

Glen Nelson:

It's very hard.

Darrell Babidge:

I never enjoy it. It's very rare that I enjoy hearing my students sing in performance, and they could be singing really well. I mean poor Rachel, there's one clip of her on YouTube that I can sit and relax with. And she's doing amazing things; don't get me wrong. And this is only positive, but my critical ear is so finely attuned, that anything else I listen to, I can go,"Oh, do you remember you could have done that note better?" Yeah. So it's not fun.

Glen Nelson:

It's so interesting to hear this, and your answer doesn't surprise me in the least because in performing arts that are particularly live, it's always incremental progress that you're looking for. And I'm sure that any singer in the world can be slightly better.

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah. And I'm aware of that. Yes. And I will never,... I'm very positive about the critique I give after a performance. But my own ears will just pick up on everything they should have done better. But why would I do that after a performance? They're the ones having to do the three and a half hour.... I mean, it's incredible. I mean I've been there, but not for a long time. It's incredible what they do.

Glen Nelson:

Across the way is the City Ballet. After performances, Balanchine would rehearse what had just happened.

Darrell Babidge:

Oh really? Really?

Glen Nelson:

Oh yeah. So, I mean if you want to get good, you keep getting good.

Darrell Babidge:

That's right.

Glen Nelson:

That's how it works. I can't really imagine standing onstage at the Metropolitan Opera across the way here: 3,800 seats, possibly singing over an orchestra that could be as large as a hundred instruments, no microphone. Is a lot of what you do training just how to be heard in a big space?

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah, I think in a word, it is. You want someone to have a beautiful voice or you know, technique that is sound. But my goal is that any size voice can carry through an orchestra. I always say that."Are you cutting the orchestra right now when you're singing?"

Glen Nelson:

With focus or somehow.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. With focus, with finding the right resonators if we're going to talk, you know, technique. And so that's always the goal. Now, you and I could hear someone in this room sing really big and loud, and it'd be a little overwhelming, and we'd be pretty"impressed." But you could hear that same big-sized voice at the Metropolitan Opera and not hear them in the back of the hall because they're diffusing the sound. It's not the right way of projecting. But you can have a smaller voice that still projects and hits the back of--you've heard it--at the Met, you can still hear them.

Glen Nelson:

That's exactly right. When we first moved to the city and went to the opera all the time, we were always in the back row. That's what we could afford.

Darrell Babidge:

Right.

Glen Nelson:

And you know Jessye Norman, who passed away a few weeks ago, walked on stage and it was like the doors had opened, and you were just blown back in your seat. And it wasn't all volume. There was something else going on.

Darrell Babidge:

Of course.

Glen Nelson:

But there were also sopranos for example, who had a lighter sounds and tenors too that had a ping.

Darrell Babidge:

Right.

Glen Nelson:

And you could always hear everything, but it was more than just hearing it. It would cut through it...

Darrell Babidge:

That's right. Because you get the overtone in the ear. If it gets to you in the back of the hall, then you know that they're doing the right thing. That's my goal.

Glen Nelson:

I don't know any of that technical stuff. Like, I sing a tiny bit but not well, and I've never had a voice lesson. So other people listening to this are probably in the same boat. So what does a regular voice lesson lke?

Darrell Babidge:

Well, let's have a voice lesson right now.

Glen Nelson:

Shoot me![Laughs.]

Darrell Babidge:

That's a good question. So like today a new student came in....

Glen Nelson:

Five.

Darrell Babidge:

[Laughs.] Is that it? So a new student came in today for a lesson. That's different because normally I do a warmup. So my warmups are dependent on what they're going to sing in the lesson, what they're preparing. If I know it's a big aria or it's Mozart or Handel or whatever, the warmup can be dependent on what they're going to sing. So if it's a new student, I don't know what they're going to sing. They might not even be warmed up, but I'll listen to them sing an aria or a song.

Glen Nelson:

You prefer that they warm up before they arrive?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. But even if they don't, I don't care because there's enough for me to know what the instrument does. And they're nervous and all that.

Glen Nelson:

Is it part assessment, the warmup?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. So I listen to them sing an aria or song. I assess pretty much what their voice needs because I only teach 45 minute lessons, so I need to get down to...

Glen Nelson:

That's kind of short, isn't it?

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah. But it's worked. And then I work out what their voice needs. So in a nutshell, Glen, if I do a master class--and master classes are weird things anyway; they're not always ideal--but in that 20 minutes when they sing their first song or aria, I listen to one or two notes that are really amazing that are really like,"Oh, what are they doing there?" And like,"Okay, they sing it an ah vowel really beautifully on a D." So I think,"Okay, what would they need to do to make that sound go throughout the range? What is it they need to do?" And usually that's when I'll assess what do they do well and how can I then make it holistically work for them.

Glen Nelson:

Because they already know how to do that one thing.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes.

Glen Nelson:

Can they keep doing it?

Darrell Babidge:

Can they keep doing that throughout the range? Which then means they can use support well, they can do other things well, as a byproduct. But if I was talking about my technique, it would take months to really work out a student's journey. Technically I can't do that in 45 minutes, but that would be a normal first lesson. A student I've had for 10 years, I would do warmup knowing what they're going to sing. I usually do warmups for 10 minutes, and then we work through their repertoire. And I might add a new technical concept that day. I don't always do the same thing because I get bored teaching the same stuff. So I have to make it fun for me, too.

Glen Nelson:

Let's say a student who is enrolled in a university. Some of them have specific goals. They're preparing for an audition or for a competition or whatever. Are you helping them select music to sing?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. I love it if they select it and not me. I'm not a rep guru. Some people are really good with repertoire. That's not who I am. But I have a good instinct when someone sings something that it's right for them, so I will help with repertoire. It's better if they do it. And then I work through all that repertoire with them. I go through every piece to make sure they technically work it out.

Glen Nelson:

But that's a challenge because it's not at all uncommon to hear young opera singers say that the first opera they ever saw was one that they were in, in college.

Darrell Babidge:

Correct.

Glen Nelson:

So this exposure issue is kind of a challenge, isn't it?

Darrell Babidge:

It is. So I always tell my students, when I worked at Brigham Young University, I always made sure that they'd go to productions if they were going to audition out of town on the East coast or the West coast, they have to go to as many operas as they can. And quite often they would learn their craft or like you say, learn what is going on at a summer program.

Glen Nelson:

Other people in the arts who are listening to that just won't believe it. Like, if you're a piano or a violin person, and you're eight years old, and haven't been taking lessons for years, it's almost over for you.

Darrell Babidge:

Right.

Glen Nelson:

And the same for athletes. If you're going to hit a baseball coming at you a hundred miles an hour and you didn't start doing it when you were five, you're probably not going to be any good at all.

Darrell Babidge:

That's right. That's why I'm not any good at baseball.

Glen Nelson:

That's the reason?

Darrell Babidge:

That's the only reason.[Laughs.]

Glen Nelson:

Let’s listen to another singer. Here’s baritone Shea Owens. This is“The Car Aria” from Tobias Picker’s opera,“An American Tragedy.” In the first act, the character of Clyde, a son of devoutly religious parents, begins to be seduced by loose women and shiny cars in the American Midwest of the 1920s, in this adaptation of the classic Theodore Dreiser novel, that will end with murder and Clyde’s execution in prison. What's something that we might want to listen to in Shea Owens' voice?

Darrell Babidge:

What I love about Shea's voices is that we've spent, again 12 or 13 years, is keeping the range really smooth throughout. He has a really good high and a really good low. In fact, he has like a good low D flat and a really high B flat, which makes me mad. I tell him,"I hate you," because I've never had that range. But the whole goal is to again have opulent beauty throughout the whole range. So you'll just hear beauty in the sound. That's always a good goal.

Glen Nelson:

All right, let's listen.[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhSReAOs9eA] I was looking at Shea's website and the performances of his that are on YouTube. And I was surprised and pleased to see how much contemporary music is in his rep.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. A lot.

Glen Nelson:

Is that unusual?

Darrell Babidge:

It's not unusual, but it's good to be involved in that if you are, because people are always looking for a good musician to do that.

Glen Nelson:

Do you travel to hear your students' performances?

Darrell Babidge:

So here's the thing,...

Glen Nelson:

It's a little hard, now.

Darrell Babidge:

... Well, when I was at BYU, I got lots of funding to do that. I won an award that gave me quite a lot of money over the years, and that's when I traveled. So I've seen Shea at different places and in Europe and same with Rachel and other students. So yes. Now I'm here in New York, ironically, I don't have any travel, so that's not happening anymore.

Glen Nelson:

Well, they're going to have to sing here.

Darrell Babidge:

That's right. They'll just have to come here.

Glen Nelson:

Try to motivate them, if you can.

Darrell Babidge:

Oh, they're motivated to sing here, don't worry.

Glen Nelson:

Yes, I'm sure they are. Not every singer is meant to be an opera singer or maybe even wants to. How do you tell what somebody's voice might be capable of? You don't want to push them into something that would be damaging for their voice.

Darrell Babidge:

No. Another good question because you know why it's a good question is because I used to think that I had ears enough to know when someone had what it takes. And that happens most of the time. I'd say 90% of the time I have a good idea, a good sense of what their career path could be like. In the ideal world, of course, that doesn't always happen. There's many things for it not to happen, but in the ideal world...

Glen Nelson:

It's a potential issue.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Right. I can hear a voice, even if it's flat and not doing great things, I can tell there's a wonderful instrument in there. So I'm hearing the instrument that potentially could do amazing things. But on the other side of the coin, I've had students that I thought would have..., Would not go anywhere, not do well, and they've proved me wrong.

Glen Nelson:

Yeah.

Darrell Babidge:

So that's been really good for me.

Glen Nelson:

So why is that? Because they wanted it?

Darrell Babidge:

They've worked really hard, and they want it, and they practice every day, which sounds unusual, but some don't do that. And students will come to me and look at my students on the wall and say,"Why am I not what they're doing?" I say,"I know the answer to that question. They came in every week with new repertoire. They researched the composer, the song, and they were always eager to learn. And you're not like that. So you start getting on that road." There are some people...

Glen Nelson:

That must be hard to hear.

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah. But I'm happy to say that cause I'm kind of nice to my students, but when they ask that stupid question, I'm willing to give them the answer because they just don't want to work h ard e nough.

Glen Nelson:

It's a professionalism issue.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, totally.

Glen Nelson:

With the singer, let's say, who might have a deficit in one aspect of their voice or another...

Darrell Babidge:

Yes.

Glen Nelson:

...Can they ultimately make a virtue of that vice, or is it mostly compensating for natural issues that aren't ideal?

Darrell Babidge:

Correct. The latter.

Glen Nelson:

Yeah. That makes sense.

Darrell Babidge:

It can be both. Again, I say, people have proved me wrong, but I have had students that I thought had limited instruments that have actually really worked hard to make it quite beautiful and quite polished. But most people that will come to Juilliard--I'm guessing, because I'm still new here for the audition process--but at BYU, I would always listen for the potential of an instrument, and to me that's more exciting than hoping that someone can sing all the notes right and be really dramatically appealing, but it doesn't do anything for me if they don't have the voice.

Glen Nelson:

I know you well enough to know that you're a modest guy and are not going to really tell me the answer to this question, but as your reputation has grown, my guess is that people have even wanted to go to your university, just study with you. Has that happened?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes it has. And I am still surprised. And people fly in from Europe to have lessons, and that's always, it's like, what? Why would you do that?

Glen Nelson:

Well, get used to it. Right now on YouTube there's this lovely testimonial that Rebecca Pederson, another of your students, is giving about the ability that you saw in her voice that she couldn't see for herself. She describes her voice before working with you as almost ugly, too big, pitchy, uncontrolled, she says, and she gives you so much credit, not just for making her a better singer, but a better person as well. It's a lovely, a lovely thing. So how do you react to compliments like that?

Darrell Babidge:

Umm.

Glen Nelson:

Is it embarrassing? Because you have to recognize that sometimes you're seeing things in your students that they can't see.

Darrell Babidge:

It's really lovely to hear that in reality because you don't really know that until you hear someone say that. But I think it came from a sincere place. It's kind of amazing to hear that. And she was someone I heard when she was 18, and it was very--I think she'd be okay if I said this--it was very flat singing. But I knew there was something in there that would open up, and she's someone who's worked really, really hard. It was a win-win. Someone who works really hard, my ears tell me that I can polish that up.

Glen Nelson:

Well, let's listen to her. This is an excerpt from the Massenet opera,"Le Cid,""Pleurez, pleurez mes yeux", which is my very, very bad French pronunciation...[laughs].

Darrell Babidge:

I think it is okay."Pleurez, pleurez mes yeux."

Glen Nelson:

Thank you. Which is from Act 3, when Chimène, is seeking justice for her father, the count, who has been killed by her lover, a knight, in vengeance.

Darrell Babidge:

Of course.

Glen Nelson:

Yes. Just another night at the opera.

Darrell Babidge:

Just another night at the opera.

Glen Nelson:

Let's listen.[Excerpt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROv5TL8CuI] We have to hear a bit of your singing, too, Mr. Babidge.

Darrell Babidge:

Please don't. You really don't because now it's going to go...[Laughs.]

Glen Nelson:

That's fine. How do people come to you as far as a title? What did they call you and they call you Mr. Babidge?

Darrell Babidge:

No, I like Darrell.

Glen Nelson:

Your students?

Darrell Babidge:

Darrell. Yeah.

Glen Nelson:

In the hallway, people say Darrell?

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah."Professor" I don't like: too professorial to be called professor, and at BYU I was called"Brother Babidge" and I didn't like that cause I'd like to separate church and state. So you know, it's not like a calling at church.

Glen Nelson:

You don't want to be paid to be called brother?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Tha's right.[Laughs.]

Glen Nelson:

I have to tell you, again, knowing that you're a modest guy, that I've talked with a bunch of your former students and colleagues, and all of them talk of you in a glowing way like Pedersen did. You're a very loved figure, my friend. It's very nice. Here's Darrell in the role of Joseph Smith in the opera,"The Book of Gold," music by Murray Boren. In this aria that ends the opera, Joseph thinks back to the First Vision and notes how that event altered everything. So what do you remember of this premiere? This was 2005.

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah, I'm happy to talk about it, but in lots of ways don't feel this needs to be in the podcast--but you can cut that bit out.

Glen Nelson:

I like the LDS connection because I want to talk a little bit about LDS music.

Darrell Babidge:

Sure. Of course, Yeah. That was really a wonderful experience for Jenny and I because Jenny played Emma and I played Joseph. And if anybody thinks that they can recreate playing the role of Joseph, they're silly because you just can't, you know, there's nothing, you just can't inhabit that. You have to, as an actor, of course. But it was overwhelming for me because it's like, you know, how do I even do that? So I kind of just tried and did my thing. But it was very special. I have to tell you, doing that role, because it was bigger than the sum of its parts by nature having to portray Joseph Smith and an integral part of our Church history. But I actually loved it. Now, that music was not easy to learn--Murray Boren, it was not easy to learn--but I loved it because it was challenging and it was very connected to the text. It had all the right things, and once I learned the music, I was never going to unlearn it because it was totally in my voice by then. I loved the experience.

Glen Nelson:

Let's listen to the last four minutes.[Listened to excerpt.] Okay, let's switch gears a little bit. There are probably some people listening who would love to get free vocal advice from you. It's like you go to a party and there's a doctor: A free consult. Why not?

Darrell Babidge:

You're on a plane, you get sick. The doctor has to kind of help out.

Glen Nelson:

So I have a few questions if you're game for it.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, go ahead. What are some tips you might give to somebody who wants to sing in public but gets really nervous, and do you get nervous when you sing? Yes. So that's why the transition of me being solely a teacher now. I think I've taken off the performing hat, moving to the east coast. I got more nervous the older I got.

Glen Nelson:

Oh really? So you understand what they're going through.

Darrell Babidge:

I understand what they're going through, and I think it's good for them to know that it's usually a phase because what happens is they, you know, they had a bad experience in a performance and that they had like a mini panic attack or something, and they feel that's always going to happen. And usually they'll find it is just a phase. They need to get used to performing more. Maybe, you know, singing an old people's home a few times, seeing in front of their friends for a few times-- because that's more nerve wracking sometimes. Then lights, camera, action. I find that when there's costume and lights, they're less nervous, as opposed to recital.

Glen Nelson:

Let's say at church.

Darrell Babidge:

I'm always more nervous at church.

Glen Nelson:

But what advice would you have?

Darrell Babidge:

I would just say you have to practice in that place a few times. Practice in that place that you're going to be performing a few days later. Have people over to watch you that you would rather not have them there with you. So by the time you have the audience per se, that it's not that overwhelming.

Glen Nelson:

How about somebody who has a pretty voice but not a large voice? What would you say to them?

Darrell Babidge:

I would tell them that in time they will be able to help project their voice with paying for more lessons.[Laughs.] I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But it's very difficult in one free chat with someone.. But that would be hard to tell them except to tell them that they have that possibility. I think when I first went to study at the Royal Northern College of Music, I remember my first lesson saying,"Do you think I could be operatic singer?" And he looked at me like,"Well, that's dumb thing to say." Meaning I am a teacher that will help you sing to cut an orchestra, which is what we talking about earlier. I would just say if you have a sweet pretty voice, there's many ways for it to become bigger by nature of projection, but not if it's to be manufactured or manipulated or fake pushing. That's not my goal either.

Glen Nelson:

I would imagine that some people think,"Well, this is the voice I've got. That's it." As far as volume...

Darrell Babidge:

They're wrong.

Glen Nelson:

And they're wrong.

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah. That's all for anybody. I would say that, yeah.

Glen Nelson:

How do you decide as a parent if you should have your child take voice lessons?

Darrell Babidge:

So Jenny and I, we never promote singing with our children because it's just, they just hear it all the time. But our oldest, our 17-year old--that's the track he wants to take. He's applying for music schools to sing, and he's maybe had three lessons with me, at best.

Glen Nelson:

Well, he maybe should get some more.

Darrell Babidge:

Tell him that. Beause they all sing. There's one out of our five that doesn't sing, but I think secretly he does. He's just doesn't want to be...

Glen Nelson:

It's a lot of pressure.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes.

Glen Nelson:

So then as a parent, how do you know if vocal lessons would be a wise thing?

Darrell Babidge:

Well, Jenny I, we don't think it's wise. And I tell you why. Because I've had a lot of younger singers/students come, and it's the parent that wants them to sing, not the child--normally, that's been our experience. So there's some kind of energy about that. And that's why it's interesting. Our 17-year old who actually sings very well is applying to music schools. And I think he'll do pretty well.

Glen Nelson:

So let's say somebody enjoys singing--a child enjoys singing--and in elementary school and middle school and even high school they're singing, and they're getting music lessons in a sense because if they're in a chorus, they're getting music lessons.

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah.

Glen Nelson:

So at that point even would you say...

Darrell Babidge:

They should. And Glen, I'm going to kind of retract some of my statement. That's about my own children, which is different for Jenny and I because that's all we do is teach voice. But I've taught a few students in the last couple of weeks who are interested in coming as freshmen as undergrads, and they've done the Juilliard pre-college course for two or three years. So I asked them when did you start singing? Quite often they'll say 14 or 15. So I think 14-15 is a sensible age to get them on track, if that's what they want to do, or they have a penchant to singing and that is something they like to do.

Glen Nelson:

Because voices aren't maturing at that age still.

Darrell Babidge:

Correct.

Glen Nelson:

Even into their 20s and 30s, for men, for example.

Darrell Babidge:

Most do not. The exception to the rule is Rebecca Pederson who had a big voice at 18 and fixed her tuning. Within the time she was 20 and won the Met when she was 21. That's unusual for big repertoire.

Glen Nelson:

How do you know if you might be doing something to your voice that's damaging to it?

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah.

Glen Nelson:

It hurts?

Darrell Babidge:

It hurts. Yes. Or the high range it gets very fuzzy or diffuse then you know something's not right and you stop.

Glen Nelson:

It wouldn't surprise me to know that you've had students in here who have picked up bad habits along the way. How do you fix them?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, that's a very good question.

Glen Nelson:

Because they're kind of ingrained in the way they do it. It's almost muscle memory.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. It takes time. It takes a lot of time.

Glen Nelson:

Can you point out to them that actually, this could be better if you shifted? Is that how you do it?

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah, and in reality usually they'll notice that it's working for them. When I hear them say,"Ah, that feels so much better," and it's like a bigger sound or,"That's so easy. Why was that not easy before?" That usually means that they're going to be happy with future lessons. But some people don't always get that either. They don't always know that's what's happening. And they find another teacher that... They want to feel good about what they're doing. Then I'm not the person to go to. I mean I'm positive, but if they feel that everything's fine when you know it's not, I can't help them very well.

Glen Nelson:

I know you've worked with lots of singers, but because you were at BYU for more than a dozen years, quite a number of your students who have gone on to operatic careers are Latter-day Saints. Is that right?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, that would be, yeah.

Glen Nelson:

So what does that mean to you?

Darrell Babidge:

I love that. I love it. So when I was a student at BYU, I think I'm right in saying that it wasn't really promoted to go out and have a career in singing. I can say that right now because I was there as a student. And then as years went on, that did change, and I felt students were stifled a little bit in that understanding. They felt they really should be homemakers.

Glen Nelson:

The big wide world was too dangerous.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, it was too dangerous. And I am the first one to advocate that family is important more than anything else. I am quite a believer in that, but at the same time, don't not pursue a career if that's what you feel you can do. And I think Rachel Willis-Soørensen is the poster child to that as is Erin Morley and other people.

Glen Nelson:

Erin Morley was telling me she was backstage at a role here at the Met and her co-star is also LDS, and they were sitting around at intermission working on the Relief Society lessons that they had to give.

Darrell Babidge:

Is that right? Yeah. I love that. I love that.

Glen Nelson:

So, what's your take on the quality of LDS musicians in the vocal arts world right now?

Darrell Babidge:

Really good.

Glen Nelson:

There's a lot.

Darrell Babidge:

It's really wonderful. And I think back to when Jenny and I lived here...

Glen Nelson:

Jenny was doing some big roles.

Darrell Babidge:

Right.

Glen Nelson:

And in a time when there weren't very many...

Darrell Babidge:

I guess I'm talking about this generation. So when you talk about Ariel Bybee's generation, you and I could probably name maybe four or five people, but I think we can name a whole slew--that's horrible word--of people in the last 10 years. So exponentially it's the numbers...

Glen Nelson:

I wrote a book a few years ago called"Mormons at the Met," and I just followed one year at the Met, and I followed 12[LDS] singers who had important roles.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Incredible. 20 years ago that was.., you've lived here for nearly 30 years?

Glen Nelson:

More.

Darrell Babidge:

So you more than anybody has seen that change, that shift. So I think it's very exciting.

Glen Nelson:

So what are the possible consequences of that for our culture? This is now a critical mass question.

Darrell Babidge:

Yeah. I think it's really exciting and I tell you why, because if we're going to talk about--well, I'm bringing the subject up, you didn't--but you know, the moral standards, that's always been an issue for my students. In fact, that was one of the reasons I moved to the States was trying to avoid the European sensibility of productions where you, you know, strip naked and you have to, you know--so it's a little more tame here. Of course, that's changed over the years. I just went to the"Akhnatan" at the Met and it's not the same, but I think it's wonderful that someone like Rachel Willis-Sørensen and who did Marschallin at Glyndebourne last year that I went to, and it was a re-production where her role had to be topless in the first scene and she said,"I am not doing it." And the director said,"You are doing it." And she said,"I'm not doing it or I'm not in the production." So luckily she has, you know, the way with all to say that, but also she is a product that they like and they had to change that whole scene. And actually the reviews were way more favorable than the original production. So, I guess that's in a nutshell really what I'm saying is that I think it's nice that we can still demonstrate our, you know, our faith and our morals in what we believe.

Glen Nelson:

And I'm also seeing the cultural side of it a little differently in the composer aspect of it. So I'm aware of a hundred operas by LDS composers.

Darrell Babidge:

It's incredible what you've found. And an extraordinary number of composers writing art songs and choral works and so on. But often people don't know them because they haven't really been championed by first-class artists. Right.

Glen Nelson:

And I wonder if this new generation of vocal artists might be a bridge for them, too.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, totally. Yeah. Why wouldn't it be? Yes, I agree.

Glen Nelson:

You premiered a bunch of original works. I worked with you on two things. D. Fletcher's piece and Murray's piece. So I know that that side of it is important to you. You recently had an article published in"BYU Studies."

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Yes I did.

Glen Nelson:

A musical history aspect of the Church. What was that about?

Darrell Babidge:

So here's the really funny thing about that--that that took me 10 years to get published.

Glen Nelson:

Give the people the topic.

Darrell Babidge:

So it's to do with the Nauvoo Concert Hall, Nauvoo Music Hall--it's interchangeable by the name. I forget exactly how that was instigated, how I found out about it, but I wanted to do a research project, and when I first arrived to BYU, I got this strong impression that I needed to publish something by nature of being a professor. And so I put the two and two together. I thought, I love Church history, love music, and I worked out that now and again in people's journals, they would talk about the Nauvoo Concert Hall. And I kept thinking,"Is that the cultural hall that we often talk about, the Masonic hall?" But it wasn't, and it was another building that just doesn't exist and hasn't been there for 150 years. And so I researched everything I could about it and discovered that it was built one block away from the temple, and it was Joseph Smith who chose the place for it to be built. And then he died before it was built. And it was wonderful hearing all these accounts of how that hall was used. So yeah, it was published like two months ago, and it took 10 years to...

Glen Nelson:

Very cool.

Darrell Babidge:

Because I'm not a writer, I'm not an author, Glen, like yourself.

Glen Nelson:

It doesn't matter how long it takes, it matters that it gets done.

Darrell Babidge:

But the Church History Department was fascinated by it.

Glen Nelson:

I had never heard of it.

Darrell Babidge:

At the 50th anniversary of"BYU Studies," which was 10 years ago, I gave a presentation on it and that's when people said,"Oh, you should write an article about it." So people were very interested.

Glen Nelson:

The hall didn't last too long.

Darrell Babidge:

No.

Glen Nelson:

And so that's why people might not know about it.

Darrell Babidge:

Correct. It was up for maybe like a year.

Glen Nelson:

Back to Juilliard, to end. So a new stage of your life, new opportunities. Will you be involved in auditions for students who are coming here?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. That's all new for me. So I'll be a part of that whole process. So yes.

Glen Nelson:

At BYU you didn't do that?

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Yeah, I did all that. But I've always been intrigued how Juilliard does that. So I'll find out this year how that works.

Glen Nelson:

I mean, can you imagine what the next few years might be like for you? Do you know? Just gonna go with it.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes. Just gonna go with it. It was interesting, you know, because I remember it was funny because it was a big decision to move to the East coast, and Jenny and I deliberated for a long time. We wantrf to make sure all our children were o nboard. It was a big decision for us. It was not immediate yet. And I actually let Juilliard wait a couple of weeks before we said the yes. But we did have some very profound experiences t hat h elped us know that we should come. But a blessing that my dad gave me when I was 27 suddenly came back my remembrance out of nowhere. W hen in the blessing it said that you will have amazing, exciting experiences in your career. I hadn't even gone to school yet and it came to mind. I thought,"Yes, this is really part of that." Like, if in the blessing it h ad said you would end up w ith J uilliard, I'd have stopped the blessing,"Hang on, Dad. Think about it." So it is i ndeed. It's amazing....

Glen Nelson:

But let me interrupt you, which is what I do all the time, unfortunately, say my friends and family.[Laughs.] In your performing days, did you imagine that that was talking about you as a performer?

Darrell Babidge:

No. No. And it's interesting because in my patriarchal blessing it says,"You will find other talents that you don't know you have." So I always thought it would be performing, but I feel this is, well, I know it's not that.

Glen Nelson:

Wow. This is just such an exciting thing. I mean, I want to thank you, Darrell, for being my guest today. It's rare to encounter somebody as wonderful, talented, kind, and put together as you are.

Darrell Babidge:

Oh, that's not true.

Glen Nelson:

It is true! And I'm so happy to see the success you're having. I'll say something to you that I've heard you say when you compliment other people,"Good on you." And thank you for listening to our podcast. You can learn more about the Center for Latter-day Saint Arts by going to our website. In June, 2020 at the Center's art festival in New York, Darrell and Jenny will be premiering an exciting new vocal work by Steven Ricks.

Darrell Babidge:

Yes, I'm still performing. I forget.

Glen Nelson:

You are still performing. We didn't even have a chance to talk about that today. Next time. Goodbye.

Speaker 10:

inaudible].