Episode 5.19 - Conversación con Rafael and Join Them on Their Journey Updates!

This episode opens with a lighthearted discussion about National 3D Day, where we joke about three-dimensional experiences like 3D movies, printing, and art. 

Then we have another installment of Conversaciónes con Rafael. Together we reflect on the pressures of constant busyness in education and life, emphasizing the importance of intentionally creating time for reflection, creativity, and human connection rather than always working toward deliverables. We also discuss how technology—especially phones and screens—shapes students’ attention, learning, and relationships, debating the balance between limiting distractions and teaching responsible use. 

The episode concludes with updates from our Join them On Their Journey teacher updates.

The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org

Transcript

Joel 0:17

You are listening to the More Math For More People Podcast, an outreach CPM educational program. Boom.

Misty 0:31

Alright, March 17th, I feel like I should say something. Irish. Sele. Shena. No, I don't know. I don't know any actual Irish words.

Joel 0:43

Guinness.

Misty 0:44

that's an Irish word, I guess. Yeah. So anyway happy March 17th, also known as St. Patrick's Day.

Joel 0:53

Yeah,

Misty 0:54

But we're not but we're not celebrating.

Joel 0:56

we're not gonna,

Misty 0:57

You seem surprised by that.

Joel 0:59

Yeah. It seems a little obvious.

Misty 1:00

oh, well that's not what we're gonna celebrate, but you know, we can't ignore it. We

Joel 1:04

Well, I, I suppose,

Misty 1:06

you know, the snakes are no longer in Ireland and we can eat potatoes and

Joel 1:13

they could just be hibernating or something, right?

Misty 1:15

For a really, for thousand, hundreds of years, they've been hibernating these snakes that are very whew, very thorough. Hibernators

Joel 1:22

yeah.

Misty 1:24

Sounds weird. Anyway, what is the National Day that we are gonna talk about? Not St. Patrick's

Joel 1:29

So I feel like we already talked about this one too, but everybody who's listening knows that it's halfway to my birthday, so let's just get that outta the way. We've talked about this before? Let's just put it to the side though. We don't need to overly

Misty 1:44

like we haven't had a podcast on the 17th'cause we haven't repeated any

Joel 1:47

Well,

Misty 1:48

we've, we've celebrated

Joel 1:50

it's been close. It is, and it's not, I'm not actually on the 17th, but it's closely. Related. So anyways, I enjoy the day and but today we're gonna be celebrating National 3D Day, which is Celebr National 3D Day, which is celebrated on the third day of the third week of the third month,

Misty 2:14

Wow.

Joel 2:16

yeah.

Misty 2:16

So does like three cubed day,

Joel 2:19

Mm-hmm.

Misty 2:19

not just 3D day. Interesting. Third, say that again. The Third

Joel 2:24

Third day of the third week of the third

Misty 2:27

when you, okay, so that's when you start with Sunday as the first day of the week, not Monday. Got it.

Joel 2:31

Sure.

Misty 2:32

Well some countries count. Monday is the beginning of the week, not

Joel 2:35

Oh, that's true. That's true.

Misty 2:38

Alright. So the, the third day of the third week. Of the third month.

Joel 2:44

That's right. 3D day.

Misty 2:45

Okay. Okay. All right. So on the third hour of the third minute of the third hour, we could like get really sneaky today,

Joel 2:53

Yes, we could. And in the

Misty 2:54

already passed probably when you're listening to that 3 0 3 already passed.

Joel 2:58

I was gonna say in the year. 33. 33, but that'd be four threes, so I'd have to be like

Misty 3:03

a lot of threes.

Joel 3:05

33. 30, 33.

Misty 3:09

anyway. Okay.

Joel 3:11

Okay. I,

Misty 3:11

it's,

Joel 3:11

that's not about

Misty 3:12

3D day.

Joel 3:14

3D Jay, do you have any experiences with 3D?

Misty 3:17

All the time. I have fewer experiences with 2D in my life probably or 1D 1D even less.

Joel 3:25

Okay.

Misty 3:25

But you remember in Wrinkle in Time when they were like, I. I think the word is tests are acting. When they were like going from place to place to place and there was one place where they just were, all of a sudden they got there and I remember they were talking about how they couldn't breathe and everything was really weird and all the, and the which is which of the Mrs. Who it or how, what's it and the whatevers, I can't remember all the names. They were like, quick, quick, we need to get outta here. This, this planet is 2D, the children can't live here. Or something like

Joel 3:52

no, that would be bad.

Misty 3:53

I remember thinking about like, oh, it'd be really weird to be two dimensional.'cause you're

Joel 3:56

That would be kind of weird.

Misty 3:58

You have. No third dimension.

Joel 4:00

Yeah,

Misty 4:01

So anyway, they got outta there and they survived clearly. And

Joel 4:04

that's good.

Misty 4:05

as the story went, you know,

Joel 4:06

It'd be How did you get outta there?'cause you can't move forward.

Misty 4:11

I, I don't know, they tester acted, so, you know, I mean, it's all, you know, they're already doing fourth dimension things, so who knows. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel 4:17

That's insane.

Misty 4:19

yes, I do have experience with 3D, Joel.

Joel 4:22

Okay.

Misty 4:22

I mean, our lives are 3D. We are 3D.

Joel 4:26

Yes. How about three glasses or movies or models?

Misty 4:32

when I was a kid, like those 3D Mo like, I think they were not as popular as they were maybe in like the fifties or sixties or whatever, but we would occasionally have a 3D movie to go see, and you had to put on those glasses. It never seemed like it worked very well. It was more like, I don't know. I think they're much better now. I

Joel 4:50

I haven't tried it.

Misty 4:51

went to like an IMAX one, I think this was many years ago when I was still teaching and took our kids down to the, like the science center or

Joel 4:58

Mm-hmm.

Misty 4:58

there was an IMAX and you had the like 3D glasses and it was like underwater something. And so there was like one where you're going through and like all the jellyfishes were coming at you. And that was pretty cool'cause you could, like, they did definitely look three dimensional

Joel 5:13

Well, like you would try and reach out and grab them

Misty 5:15

yeah. Like they felt differently, felt like they were going right past you, and yeah. So

Joel 5:19

pretty cool.

Misty 5:20

it was pretty cool. What about you, Joel? you, have any experience with 3D?

Joel 5:24

The glasses. I've seen a couple movies. That sort of thing. Definitely a science, movies space, water, those kinds of movies. I know Jaws was in 3D, but I never saw the 3D version.

Misty 5:39

the 3D version. I feel like also like it makes me think of like 3D printing somehow. Like, oh, instead of printing in two dimensions, we're printing in three dimensions, which is a really kind of a cool thing actually.

Joel 5:52

I think so too.

Misty 5:53

How they do

Joel 5:54

It seems like it takes a long time sometimes,

Misty 5:56

how complicated the thing you're making. Is it probably.

Joel 5:59

I suppose.

Misty 6:00

But

Joel 6:00

I suppose that's true.

Misty 6:01

I mean, it's also like you have to program it right? To do all the little things and all what the slices look like, or I don't know. I don't, I kind of only seen it like once or twice. It's

Joel 6:09

O once in the classroom. I had a student, usually I'd get some presents from time to time and it would usually be a coffee cup or a a thank you card or something like that. And a student gave, printed me a a 3D name plate. It just said Miller. I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah,

Misty 6:27

that's cool. That's cool.

Joel 6:29

I still have that one.

Misty 6:30

that's nice. That's nice. Well, so, so what do we do to celebrate National 3D Day

Joel 6:36

Um,

Misty 6:37

Con continue to be in 3D.

Joel 6:40

so celebration things. I laugh because you might be able to guess.

Misty 6:47

Tell others about 3D Day. Look at the

Joel 6:50

that's not one of these. Close. Read about the origins of 3D technology.

Misty 6:55

okay. Okay.

Joel 6:57

Watch a 3D film,

Misty 6:58

nice, nice,

Joel 6:59

and you could create a 3D design of your own. I have some interesting facts. You wanna hear some facts?

Misty 7:07

create a 3D design of my own, I think about pop-up books.

Joel 7:10

Yeah, that'd be a good

Misty 7:11

think pop-up books are cool. I used to love pop-up books.

Joel 7:14

I'd still have some, somewhere.

Misty 7:16

Anyway. Okay. What were you gonna say though?

Joel 7:18

I got some interesting facts.

Misty 7:20

great. Tell us interesting facts. Fact number one.

Joel 7:23

Fact number one, it's older than you think. So, when do you think 3D printing,

Misty 7:30

but, okay.

Joel 7:32

when do you, when do you think 3D printing experiments and patents were published?

Misty 7:40

In the fifties.

Joel 7:42

1980s. So

Misty 7:44

See, it's not

Joel 7:44

it's not as old?

Misty 7:47

but the question alone allowed me, made me sort of, you know, move towards something older. Okay. Fact

Joel 7:54

3D 3D printing was invented in France.

Misty 7:58

Ah,

Joel 7:59

Do you know what year?

Misty 8:00

82,

Joel 8:01

84.

Misty 8:02

Oh, so close. It's still not older than I think. Okay. Fact number three.

Joel 8:06

Is that 3D Printing is used in outer space, so not only can you 3D print on earth, but you can 3D print in

Misty 8:15

I mean, that makes sense, but also if I were on a space station and I needed more things, I would want to be able to 3D print them. That would be cool. All I need is more

Joel 8:23

That'd be a good place to do it

Misty 8:24

plastic or whatever it is they use to make it.

Joel 8:27

because you can't go back and grab something.

Misty 8:29

can just run, you know, you DoorDash it.

Joel 8:31

yeah.

Misty 8:32

That would be.

Joel 8:33

Oh boy.

Misty 8:33

would be funny. Okay, cool. So what are you gonna do to celebrate 3D Day?

Joel 8:39

I think, I think that I'm going to do the design thing. I think I'm gonna create something in 3D that's aesthetically pleasing to me, and will be a fun activity. Yeah.

Misty 8:55

I, I, I

Joel 8:55

How about you?

Misty 8:57

well, I have made 3D. Art, like, I like to do like mixed media art and like,

Joel 9:04

Yeah,

Misty 9:04

putting some things on and then I like glue stuff on it in different

Joel 9:07

that'd be good.

Misty 9:08

so, I uh, and I have them up at an actual art, I'm gonna call it an actual art show

Joel 9:15

Yeah. Awesome.

Misty 9:16

at a coffee house where people

Joel 9:17

Woo hoo.

Misty 9:18

strangers can see them and buy them.

Joel 9:20

That's fantastic.

Misty 9:22

I'll do that today.

Joel 9:23

Yeah. Excellent.

Misty 9:25

Enjoy National 3D Day. Don't make sure you stay in 3D.

Joel 9:29

Stay outta the two Ds and the ones,

Misty 9:32

And the zero, whatever

Joel 9:33

Hmm.

Rafael 9:51

Hey,

Joel 9:52

Hey,

Rafael 9:52

I love the sound that I always forget the, it's that like beaming sound. It's so cool.

Misty 9:57

It is pretty cool.

Joel 9:59

and

Rafael 9:59

want that to follow me everywhere I go, you know?

Joel 10:02

when you appear on screen, it's like you did get transported.

Rafael 10:06

Right. I'm sure that's, that's on purpose. It's like some Star Trek guy.

Misty 10:11

Uh,

Rafael 10:12

How are you guys? I mean, I mean that like from the bottom of my heart,

Misty 10:17

ooh.

Joel 10:18

Huh.

Rafael 10:18

are you, because. That's what's on my mind. Like how are we

Misty 10:23

How are we? Yeah, there's a lot going on and that's, that's a challenge for sure.

Joel 10:30

Yeah.

Misty 10:31

The wor the world is busy. Work is busy. I don't like being busy. That's one of my things that I've started, started, like, you know, people are like, oh, how are you? I'm busy. It's like a, it's like a, it's like a status symbol in our world. Like you have to be busy. And I'm like, I don't actually like to be busy.

Joel 10:47

It's like when we don't openly share our calendars and it just says Busy on the calendar.

Rafael 10:53

Yeah. Right. Like

Misty 10:54

Kind of like

Rafael 10:54

what Kind of busy,

Joel 10:55

yeah, yeah. You start thinking about those

Rafael 10:58

how busy are you?

Joel 11:00

Yeah.

Misty 11:00

What are you doing in that busy time?

Rafael 11:02

Yeah, busy feels very task oriented and very not like generative or creative. I dunno, maybe I'm being judgy.

Joel 11:10

Yeah.

Misty 11:12

Yeah, I think that, well, I you might be being judgy. It's true. I think that it, for me, it feels like I filled up all my time

Rafael 11:21

Um

Joel 11:21

Mm.

Misty 11:22

and why did you fill up all that time? Why did I fill up all that time? Right? Like, was there some

Rafael 11:28

hmm.

Misty 11:28

to fill that time? And I, I am person who prone, I'm prone to over-scheduling myself. I'm pretty sure that calendars is one of my restricted and special interests. Like I like to look at my calendar and see the things on it and stuff like that, but then I get like, oh, well there's faces. I could put things in there and, and I have to actually resist doing that sometimes. And I know I go through phases where I do, I just like put a bunch of things in there and I'm like, oh my gosh, why did I put all these things on here?

Rafael 11:55

Well, and from a leadership perspective, when you, when you label parts of your calendar busy and it gets over busy, it's The not so implicit messages, I'm too busy for you.

Joel 12:06

Mm-hmm.

Misty 12:07

Yeah.

Rafael 12:07

Right,

Joel 12:08

Yeah.

Rafael 12:09

I think we have to be careful because we should not be too busy for the humans who are navigating the world. So.

Joel 12:18

Well, so I, I was traveling this week supporting schools and, this, this town, I'll just, I'm just gonna name the town San Bernardino. It's got a real thing for me. So my flight got canceled

Rafael 12:33

All right.

Joel 12:33

and so I spent an extra day there and, and those if you know, you know, and so then but I was reading the book that you recommended during your Ignite Talk joy, was going through some of that and it was specifically talking about. Scheduling time to be alone, screen free isolation. And I did that during that. It was like the perfect time that I could, so I was gifted. I didn't even schedule it on purpose. I was gifted that time. And I actually feel really good about it. Like I don't mind that I was there for an extra day'cause it was just a nice day to be, to just like stand outside and think this is a really great place.

Rafael 13:16

Amazing. And how could we do that without relying on airline cancellations

Joel 13:22

Yeah, exactly.

Misty 13:25

I used to, so I used to. Several years ago, you know, my former partner was, was like, you're always so busy. You're always so busy, just schedule some time to do nothing. So I did. I would like, one Saturday a week, I would schedule in like four hours or something where I would just do nothing. And so I would just sit, I just, I would sit in my, you know, comfy chair and have some tea or whatever and, and just sort of like. Do nothing like literally like I would write or, you know, I'd start to journal or do different things, you know, and just sort of do nothing. Just sit and think and do nothing. Didn't knit, didn't do anything else. And it always turned into me starting to write lists of things I was gonna do when I was done doing nothing. Every time. Every time.

Rafael 14:08

I was gonna say, did your pain go, oh, you're, you're doing something. Stop.

Misty 14:12

Well, I know, but I was like, but I was like, well, what am I gonna do when I'm done doing nothing? Well, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do this.

Rafael 14:17

Do, don't you think that the concept of do nothing or alone time is that you don't have a you don't have a deliverable?

Joel 14:24

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 14:25

Right. Like you're not working toward a thing that is due by a certain time period.

Misty 14:30

Perhaps,

Rafael 14:31

And I think that really opens up your thinking, right? Um, and in teaching we're alwa like, we're always thinking about the next deliverable, right? Like getting these kids back to their homes. You know what the lesson will look like tomorrow. Grades are due at the end of the term. Um. Testing. Right? So we're, so, yeah, we're so driven by deadlines. And if we could give teachers, I think, a little bit more room to think and create, they're not doing nothing, Right. They're doing quite a bit of things. Um, but I would argue they're more valuable in the long run if they, if they start thinking about things like, how are, how are, how am I today in the classroom this year? How are my students, you know, how is our community. We're hearing from you all may have heard as well, we're hearing from districts who are very interested in, you know, adopting or talking to us about our high quality materials, and they're like, but we can't talk right now because we're so busy

Misty 15:32

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 15:32

thinking about the wellbeing of students. Or we're so busy thinking about, you know, navigating a, a parent conversation that's gone sideways. They're very full. I think and, and at the building level, same deal. Right? And I think that impacts the whole learning community when, when they're dealing with such heavy issues swirling around us, it's so, it's that much harder to say, okay, now let's focus on, you know, system of linear equations.

Joel 16:01

Mm-hmm. Well, and from the student perspective too,

Misty 16:05

mm-hmm.

Joel 16:06

they're busy. They, they've got to be somewhere to do something.

Misty 16:11

Yeah. Yeah. I scheduling and busy always the next thing to do.

Rafael 16:17

What do, what do you all think about this? This, I don't know if it's growing. I don't know if it's a movement, but this notion of removing screens from the classroom,

Misty 16:26

Hmm.

Rafael 16:27

particularly with the older kids, you know, our six through 12 target population.

Misty 16:32

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 16:33

It occurs to me that I think. One of the motivators is to give kids time to do nothing in the most productive way,

Misty 16:41

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 16:42

wonder if it's gonna work

Joel 16:44

Hmm.

Misty 16:45

It's, it's, that's a curious question, I think because, I recognize how phones are a distraction even for me,

Rafael 16:53

hundred percent.

Misty 16:54

I mean, I, how many times I pick up my phone to do something and then get distracted by all the notifications and things and then put my phone down and go, what was I doing? Oh yeah, I was gonna do this thing on my phone that I completely forgot about. So I, I, and I, you know. Have a more developed brain than a high schooler most of the time. But you know, so there's like some part of, I get there, distraction. And I also like, you know, we are all of a generation that did not grow up with technology, right? We are that generation that. Came of age in a world where there was much less technology right before internet. And then now like, and now like kids' brains are different because they grow up with like a very different responsive technology, a different way of interacting and things. And that is actually changing how they think about things. So there's some part of. I, I always am worried I'm that like old fuddy duddy who's like, no, should not have phones. You know? But at the same time, recognizing like I don't go anywhere without my

Joel 17:55

Mm-hmm.

Misty 17:55

I, I see it as a tool that I use most of the time, and sometimes it's, it's a pain as well. And I don't always know that kids, you know, people with less developed brains, right. Still don't have pre, you know, completely developed prefrontal cortexes, that same ability to. To, to really to navigate that space in the same way. And I also see that there's times when they are a tool take a picture of this so you can see it later. Like, I mean, if we, if we completely eliminate it, we actually eliminate the ability to use it as a tool at the same time.

Rafael 18:28

Hmm.

Misty 18:29

But my kids didn't work on screen, so that's like, my kids worked out of a book, which I almost feels old fashioned and fuddy now, but know. So, yeah, I have, I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. I, I see the, need in some ways, and I also feel like there's some part of it is helping them learn how to do it reasonably, and that may be too much of an expectation.

Joel 18:54

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 18:54

Yeah, well, li little ones definitely need

Misty 18:57

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 18:58

to be, I think in playful. Screen free spaces. I'm just thinking about middle school and then particularly high school where, where, you know, the intersection between the adult world and their world is pretty, pretty significant. And I just don't know how that we would explain it to them without them turning their desks over.

Misty 19:17

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joel 19:19

Yeah. It, I think I, I think it also comes down to, we're talking about, it's a. People who are listening to this right now cannot see the screen. But to me, I believe that the three of us are of an age and we have experienced some things that students in high school have never experienced. They've never experienced not being reachable,

Rafael 19:43

true.

Joel 19:43

never experienced having that information right there. They've never, they've never experienced that social construct that it's okay. To be doing something separated from that device sort of thing. And so I think also as educators, we need to become, we somehow need to get buried into it a little bit and learn how it's actually being used. It's kinda like the calculator issue almost to me too. Like, well I had to remember my times tables. Well, it, I don't, I don't have to do that anymore'cause I have a calculator right here at my desk. Right. But it's we have to understand where they're coming from and, and I think I was reading this thing where like, if you're. I've said it before I think, but if you were born be before 1995, your brain developed in a different way than if you were born after 1995. It just is a different biological thing going on, and so that's why I think it's important to have young educators as well as.

Misty 20:55

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 20:56

Hmm.

Joel 20:56

People who can share the experience almost. I'm thinking of a campfire. Well, let me tell you how it was on my day, you know, that, that kind of a thing. But, and kind of combine the two. You gotta kind of hear where we've been to, why we would say no screens.

Misty 21:12

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 21:13

Yeah.

Joel 21:14

I have an opinion. If you don't have a screen, I'm gonna interact with you more as a person.

Misty 21:18

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Rafael 21:20

Well, this so much is I'm thinking of so many things. One in particular is this notion of well rewiring the, the rewiring of the brain, which I think is happening for some people. It's, it's this dystopic, you know, scary thing. And I think for educators, they're more likely to say well, brains have always been in the process of being rewired. Right. Connecting, you know, synapses and neurons and whatnot. But I remember an article I ran across quite a while ago. It was not in the AI age, but it was this notion of remember when we were talking about digital immigrants, uh, and digital natives? I know if you've read about that. but I feel like it was about 10 years ago and that all the, you know, the kids. We're digital natives. They grew up with technology and that we of a certain age, as Joel pointed out earlier are digital immigrants, right? Like we come into a space and we learn it from a different perspective. But then, uh, I read this, this piece that talked about, well, wait a minute, they're actually digital naives, right? They're actually learning something very quickly and becoming facile, but that does not mean. They're fully understanding concepts of privacy, concepts of like presence. You know, is, is, is are my online friends, my real friends, that sort of thing. And I think that's still very much in play today. And I remember writing some blog posts where I, where I called for, well, if they're digital naives, then we can't just advocate. We can't say, well, the kids, you know, they know all the technology, so we're gonna step away and let'em do their thing. I think we have an obligation to engage with them around those campfires, I guess, or virtual campfires.

Joel 23:02

Yeah.

Rafael 23:03

And talk about the, the kind of the. The ongoing evergreen concepts of privacy, relationships, you know, presence. I remember seeing, uh, watching the Olympic closing ceremony and every athlete was like looking into a phone,

Misty 23:23

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 23:24

to myself, okay, like you can't have the same experience. S looking into your phone that you would have if you put the phone away

Joel 23:34

That's right.

Rafael 23:34

and just interacted with the crowd. And I, and I remember once upon a time that those people gatherings, like closing ceremonies of an Olympics, were much more, again, being judgy again, but they seemed to be much more connected human to human. Whereas now we seem to be experiencing them more in parallel with each other.

Joel 23:57

Yeah. You're describing maybe and if you're listening again, we we're saying it first. It's our idea. But in the future, vacations from your phone, right? Like you could go to a place and actually pay to interact with somebody. Right. That's a,

Rafael 24:14

Oh, I think, I think that's already

Joel 24:16

oh, shoot.

Rafael 24:17

I'm, I'm, I'm pretty sure you're describing like a plot line from White Lotus, but I digress.

Joel 24:24

yes. Yes.

Misty 24:25

Mm-hmm.

Joel 24:28

Oh boy.

Misty 24:29

Well, and I, I, my brain keeps coming back to this idea of like, when you're talking about like digital naives, right? And there is some part of, we talk this about like sharing math authority, sharing any kind, like there's some part of being a more knowledgeable other. Right, which also means I don't know everything, right? I always, I always run into this space around like, well, I know better, but I don't necessarily always know better. There's this part around, like you were saying, like we can't just let'em go. Oh, they know and let, just let'em do their thing. But we also can't come to like, well, we know better we're the adults. We've learned it. You don't know yet.'cause that doesn't work either. Right? They have to experience it. They have to learn it, they have to figure things out. And and they need spaces to do that. Right. If we always just make everything easy in a box, you don't have to think. Then when they get out into the real world, it's, they quote unquote, real world. They can't. Do any of those things, they have to learn those things and in safe environments. And that's, that's a challenge.

Rafael 25:27

And also what's the real world right? Today because, uh, once upon a time, I, I feel like we are really dating ourselves on this podcast.

Misty 25:36

We're, well, we are,

Rafael 25:37

upon a time, uh, but, but

Misty 25:40

to walk up st up up a hill to school both ways in the snow.

Rafael 25:43

Florida. But there was a time where the future was somewhat predictable. Right. Like generally, you know, from one generation to the other, cool things would happen, you know, like flight, you know, trains steam power.

Misty 26:00

There was innovations.

Rafael 26:02

Yes. things happen just to be clear. But they happened at a different cadence. And so like, a grandparent, a parent could talk to a child and be like, this is likely going to be your path, or These are three paths you're likely to consider. You know, varying degrees of, of, of kind of. Orchestration. But nowadays, I would argue that the adult world, you know, the, the older generations, we really don't know. Like, like we we don't, and, and I think kind of coming to grips with that and spending time on the, I go back to those evergreen skills, right? Like, okay, we've got high quality math curriculum. Awesome, right? But I think the things we really are delivering that are evergreen is how human beings. Interact with each other, with or without a screen at the corner of their little study team. We'll see, we'll see how that plays out. But there's still that interaction between humans to solve a problem or solve problems. Right? How, how to untangle a disagreement which inevitably occurs. How to dis, you mentioned earlier how to distribute power in a community so that it's not coming from one person, be it the teacher or that one kid in your group that's kind of dominating. So. So I think that that's where education's gonna go. People are talking about being replaced. Uh, there's a lot of research that relational occupations like teaching will always be needed, uh, in a human to human kind of form because of those things. So even as content maybe becomes more deliverable out of context in an, in a de I would say dehumanized way. I think we're gonna continue to go back to that need to talk to other people, whether it's for a minute, I mean back to a alone, a do nothing time, like whatever that looks like. I think it's gonna become actually more treasured and more rare than ever.

Misty 27:58

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, those, those little pendulum swings

Joel 28:03

Yeah.

Misty 28:05

between like innovation and, and you know, machination, industrialization, and then back to like connection and people, and I, one of the, one of the most. Found, I don't know, really mind shifting books that I, I didn't read it. I listened to it on audio tape. It's very long on audio tape. It's a very big book. Is the master in his emissary. It's Ian, I'm gonna forget the name now. Is by Ian McGilchrist. And it's, it's just, it's, there's some pretty dense parts about it where, um, he really goes into the, you know, it's all about the left brain and the right brain, and why do we have two hemispheres and why do they do different things? And it's not quite as straightforward as we think, you know, it's not like, oh, the left does all this, the right does all this, and they don't. Never cross, you know? Um, and he goes pretty deep into some of the science and the pieces of it. And then he brings the ideas I mean, our, the two different parts of our brain have a really different focus of attention and awareness and how they focus in on things. The left brain is very much the. Wants to take things down into pieces and build up from the pieces, right? It's very mechanical. There's a lot of, we have a lot of metaphors about how our brain works that're based actually on the left brain

Joel 29:19

Mm-hmm.

Misty 29:19

And our right brain is very holistic and looks at things in the, in the, you know, as a whole, as a gestalt and then

Rafael 29:26

Hmm.

Misty 29:26

moves, you know, into the different focus. So there's this really interesting. He uses these ideas and he looks at how we've moved throughout history to this real focus of like at times we've swung the Western civilization, he's really just looking at Western civilization, has swung to this left focus, and then has swung back to the right, but then further to the left again, and then back to the right and then even further to the left. And it's this like pendulum that just keeps swinging further and further to the left. And as he's looking at it and it's, it's really interesting. I just read it. Or listened to it on audiobook like it was about a year and a half ago, two years ago now. And in this in all the things that are happening now, it's really an interesting context. He kind of goes up to histories to about the sixties or so, but he, you know, so it's, it, he, you know, he could easily put an update in there, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's pretty fascinating.

Rafael 30:20

I just looked it up. It sounds really good. And, and it well, according to ai. Dot, dot,

Misty 30:27

Mm-hmm.

Rafael 30:28

the eras of balance from his perspective. Were pre-Socratic, Greece, the Renaissance and Romanticism. Yeah. And then like eras of left brain dominance, the late Roman Empire, the Reformation, and interestingly enough, The Enlightenment I'm gonna read

Misty 30:46

really, that's a fascinating part of it. Yeah. When he goes through and talks about Descartes and some other pieces of the enlightenment, which are really, really, and it's really interesting because he also like weaves in philosophy.'cause how we think about things and what kind of philosophical tenets are going on is really prevalent and there's lots of German. Which cracks me up because German has like very descriptive words. Right? You can have a word that means a very specific thing, you know? And so he, it's really interesting that German words that are sort of thrown in through there. Yeah, it's really, it's really good. I recommend it.

Rafael 31:20

Well, Mr. McGilchrist, if you're listening, we'd love to hear from you.

Misty 31:23

Absolutely. Yeah. No, I would

Joel 31:25

Please reach out.

Misty 31:26

him. Yeah, I might.

Rafael 31:27

I'm getting that book.

Misty 31:28

see if, I'll see if we can find him, but Awesome. Well, yeah, we have a, we have a conversa, a cafe called Rafael today. I'm really excited about that. So always love to hear your updates.

Joel 31:41

you started this conversation with, you were asking us how we're doing. I'd like to know how you're

Misty 31:46

Oh yeah. Well, there we go.

Rafael 31:49

You know, I, I, I'm doing well. Thanks for asking. I have decided, so I'll share my, my tactics right now and. Navigating a very, very tumultuous world. I'm really big on like spheres of influence right now. Like, like what is my sphere of influence? What can I influence as a leader, as a human, you know, as a partner, as a son, what have you. And, and it's, it's working I think, and, and of course balancing that with, you know, you can't, in my mind, you can't hide your head in the sand and not be an informed citizen. But I'm trying to find that. That balance. And so CPM has really given me that sphere of influence that I think is is so important because it leads to this sense of efficacy and autonomy. Like, I can do things and they can make things better. And I think that's what Ccpm is about, right? Like we're all about co coming into the math classroom, building a district and saying, Hey, we have a theory of action that will help kids. Do better in that mathematics space. All the things we were just talking about. And also recently I've been really excited about the, this notion of approaching a building, a district, a particular, particular bigger educational entity with more of a theory of action. We've been talking about that in leadership a lot. A theory of action, you know, from top to bottom, soup to nuts, right? Like that isn't. Only about, you know, the great results we can get in the classroom, but helps them navigate change, which a lot of districts are doing that of course, include the mathematics that we are particular experts at, but also navigate change as a whole. Like if I were a superintendent and a partner came to me and said, Hey, we have this theory of action that, of course is targeted to the math classroom, but it also might help you navigate change across your district. Like, I'd be paying attention. And I think that's where we could go. I'm very excited to see, you know, we're in the midst of strategic planning, which is another moment of like, okay, this is our sphere of influence. We're gonna get strategic, we're gonna plan to do quote unquote nothing. But, but that's where, right. You know, you send people, some 40 people to Denver to think literally full stop. And to imagine the future, that's a rare thing and uh, I think we're committing to it. And so how am I doing? I am focused on CPM. I am excited about the things that are happening. And every now and then, to be honest, I have a day where I'm like, I can't take it, not because of CPM necessarily. CPM is kind of my brain where the, where the world overwhelms me. And I think acknowledging that as humans is also helpful, right? That teacher who is in there. And they're not just, you know, navigating their own wellbeing, but the wellbeing of, I don't know, a hundred kids, 150 kids I think we have to give'em a little, a little leeway to do nothing every now and then.

Misty 34:52

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you for coming on the podcast again. We've always, society we've, we learned this as a our bimonthly thing.

Rafael 35:02

yeah. Yeah. Look at

Misty 35:04

just gonna talk with you every other month. So

Rafael 35:05

Yeah. I love coming on the podcast.

Joel 35:07

We love having you.

Rafael 35:08

it always feels like this little chat.

Joel 35:10

Mm-hmm.

Misty 35:11

I love that. We don't even plan anything. Just

Joel 35:15

it on.

Rafael 35:15

like I, I always love how you all turned this, whatever, this was

Misty 35:20

this.

Rafael 35:21

into a thematic, you know, because sometimes I finish, I'm like, what did I, what did I just, did I give them anything at all to

Joel 35:30

Yeah.

Misty 35:31

Yeah. The AI summary is always a little interesting, you know?

Jessie 35:50

Good morning everyone. Well, I guess, I don't know if it's morning, but hello everyone. This is Jesse from Astoria High School in Oregon. Uh, and I, it's been a while since we've chatted and so much has happened since then. So it is March, middle of the year, and I am definitely feeling like it's March. Uh, we are about one week away from spring break, which is exciting. And, I will be spending it in Germany with a group of students. So we have a, a trip planned. Every year to Waldorf, Germany. And so we're taking like 19 students. I've never done anything like this before. So a lot of my prep the last couple of weeks has been about that. Um, I wanted to give you a little bit of update on how things are going in my classes. School's going really good. Uh, I do feel like I have dialed, really dialed in this. A random group thing, it's something that kids expect. We do it every day. Um, and it's going really well. We have been, we are trying a little bit of an experiment with the advanced topic students. To give you a little backstory, every day they get homework, but it's like three problems. Uh, this is a class for students that are not quite ready for algebra two. But they still need a third year of math. Um, or they wanna prep for algebra two. And yeah, so it kind of, it kind of serves two purposes. So we go through things slow. We do a lot of like, statistics, probability. We actually go back and redo all of the quadratic stuff to make sure that they can factor really well.'cause as most of you know, that's kind of the. The key to surviving algebra two is being able to factor. And so we, um, myself and my teaching partner we have really been reflecting on the homework piece. So every day they get homework. It's only three problems and we go over it like pretty extensively. And, and then, uh, we stamp it to make sure it's on time. So if, or to make sure it's done. So if they come in with it, every problem tried, they just have to try it. They don't have to. They don't have to have everything correct, but they have to try. And we do talk about like what it looks like to try versus what it doesn't look like to try. We, and then we stamp it on time. If they don't do it, then they get a late stamp, which is worth like three points. So. But what we were noticing is that the kids weren't really doing the homework at all. They were either like rushing through it and just kind of like, writing stuff down that sort of looked like what we were doing, but they weren't really using it as like that good tool. And then. The other thing was that a lot of them just weren't doing it, and they were just writing down the answers as we went over it, and they were just taking their three points. And so as we were reading through one of the chapters in Building Thinking Classrooms, which we're reading as a department, was this idea of like not giving homework and offering like a, optional practice problems or like checking for understanding problems that the kids do kind of on their own, but they don't have to do it. And that kind of piqued, uh, my, our interest. So we're trying a little experiment with advanced topics. Uh, we've been doing it for about. Three weeks now, where every day in our Google, or every week in our Google classroom, we post some practice problems. It's, and it's still only three a day, so if they want it, work on it, that's fantastic, but they don't have to. And then we. At the beginning of the period have bell ringers. I don't like the term warmups. So we titled them bell ringers where it's two problems and the first problem is similar to the second problem. But we, so I give them about five minutes to work through the first problem, and then I go over that first problem pretty extensively, and then I give them another three minutes to finish the second problem. And then on our. Weekly class worksheets, we stamp them for correctness so they get a one point if they do it and do it correctly. So they should get one point every single day for that. And then the other, the other problem, they get like a half a point if they are close or they try and then a full point if they did it correctly. And usually when I go around and talk to the, like,'cause, so I look at each one every day so I can see if they're right or wrong. And the kids like, I'll, I'll talk to the kids about like what they're doing wrong and if they fix it then I'll give them that full credit stamp. I have noticed actually a change in the kids, like they're really interested in, in doing these. They ask questions, it's a lot more interactive than when we were doing it through homework. So it's been kind of interesting. Now, I will say, so the practice problems are always due the Monday after we give them, and if they do it and turn it in, like I'll go through and extensively, like give them feedback on their work. But most of them, well actually none of them have done the problems and turned them in, so, you know, but they are all doing the bell ringers, and if they're absent. They do the bell ringers. So, uh, it's been really good. I don't know, I mean we're only three weeks in. Spring break is a week away, so we'll see how it goes as we head towards the end of the school year. But I wanted to give you guys that update'cause it's kind of something new and exciting that we're trying. So I hope you're all are well. Um, if you're on spring break, happy spring break. If you're about to go to spring break, you're almost there. You got this. Thanks for listening and we will catch you next time. Bye.

Chi 41:51

Hello everyone. This is Chi coming to you from Alameda, California checking in for the month of March. It's been a while and a lot has happened, but also feel like nothing has changed. The job is as stressful as ever. And some of the changes that we talked about last time regarding to assessments and classroom routines I'm continue to adjust to those things with my student as well. Went to the CPM teacher conference that was happening in February, and I. I felt like I learned a lot. I think the unique thing about this conference was that you know, all the workshops and all the skills discussed was all centered around CPM teaching. Usually conference like this is very rejuvenating'cause you're surrounded with very passionate math educators oftentimes for me, the biggest gain is actually the reminder and the rejuvenation of the passion of teaching.'cause that can get lost in the day to day of teaching. So, you know. Usually conference is good for kind of like a morale standpoint, but this conference itself has a lot of know-how that was specific to the CPM curriculum which was really useful. And and also, it presented different opportunities, that CPM provide for teachers to improve their practices. One of the thing that I really enjoyed was the poster session of all the, TRC, which is the teacher research community., so the TRC seeing the different topics that teachers kind of try to look into and, experiment with and gather data to, uh, support, some of the things that we believe in, like having joy in the math classroom building more agency in students' homework. I think those things are really cool concept itself. But I think the TRC provided. Like a structure to work with a team of like-minded individuals and from different places. So, that's something that I'm interested in the future. And I think it would align well with developing the PLC practices that we have in our district and department, our school, so that conference was really useful for me personally because it gave me a lot of tips and, share some lights on how to use some of the tools that CPN does provide, like the closure problems, uh, how to use that as a formative assessment. So that was great since I've came back to the class. So two weeks. Now since we have had that conference things are getting, more hectic. We're in March. We're in the thick of things. And I think, you know, by now, this is the point where families and. And, and students alike are like trying to improve their, their grades.'cause we started to see like what's on the horizon for next year.'cause we started to put in academic plans to enroll in classes or request in electives. So there's a push of how do I improve my grade? Which is awesome. But that also takes a lot of mental capacity to try to come up with different ways to support students who, might not be up to speed in the class. So, that takes some work and patience and empathy. Which, I believe that if you don't have those things, then I don't know why you're in. Education. it's been, it's been a pretty busy couple weeks and I don't know. I mean, at this point it still feels like it's worth it and I hope that I'll always carry that, with me I feel like the day that I wake up and I feel like I don't care or. This is all too much, so let's just move on then. I think I will be not being teaching, but so far, so good. Looking forward to the opportunities that that's ahead of me and the growth that I would, continue to have from year to to year. One thing that is on deck for me is thinking about what homework means. It what I'm, I am doing a pretty traditional pathway of homework right now where, they get homework packets for the week and they do that. Saw some awesome idea for the homework from the TRC research that shows maybe like homework can build more agency by having students choose options of diving deeper into a, a problem that they cover for the week or they can work on preview problems essentially for the next, for the lessons to come and, that seems to raise the quality of the work that's turned in. And that's actually what I'm looking at. Because right now, you know, there's a lot of, there's just a pile of paper. It's unclear to me if the student did the work or if they actually learn anything from it. Ideally I want the homework to be something that they used as practice outside of classroom. It doesn't even necessarily have to be, the contents that is covered, but I think it's important for learn math learners to practice math every day. And our current schedule a block schedule doesn't really build that in. Some, some classes I see them three days in a row and some classes I see them two days and then a day off. Then I see them, before the weekend or something. So, the varying intervals makes it challenging to decide what homework should be like. So one thing I am wondering about and trying to explore is how do I make homework that's meaningful? In terms of developing procedural fluency and at the same time that is efficient, that I can be efficient in giving feedback and returning to work on a timely manner. That's definitely one of the biggest challenge I have right now. So stay tuned.'cause as my mentor told me before you should pick only one thing to work on in your practice for the year. And kind of fine tune it throughout the year. This year was our warmup activities. So they have became more relevant and more, more concise but next year I think would be the homework. How do I fine tune that so that it means more for the student and means more for me as well as a formative assessment tool? So stay tuned. That's it for now and I will catch up with you next time. Bye.

Misty 48:45

So that is all we have time for on this episode of The More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description, and the music for the podcast was created by Julius h and can be found on pixa bay.com. So thank you very much, Julius. Join us in two weeks. For the next episode of more math for more people. What day will that be, Joel?

Joel 49:11

It will be March 31st. Grande. It would, I assume we're gonna talk about all of the different colors, the history of Crayola crayons. I still have a lot of Crayola crayons in my home with the sharpener, the different varieties, how they come up with different colors. remember one time very vividly in elementary school, kindergarten, maybe even. early years of elementary school when we still had nap time, which is a very important time for me still. However, I digress. And I remember I hid behind a bookshelf and I colored a door with Crayola nap time and they had to call my parents'cause I got in trouble. So I'll maybe get to share that story as well. But we'll see you on March 31st for talking about Crayola crayons.