Episode 5.22: School Bus Drivers & Station Rotation

We start by honoring school bus drivers and sharing our memories of riding the school bus on School Bus Driver Appreciation Day. 

Then we all know that math class gets quieter when students are confused and louder when they’re thinking together. That’s why we invited Marjorie Kucich and Sarah McKittrick to talk about station rotation in middle school math and how a smart rotation can turn a lesson into a room full of visible problem solving.

We dig into what “stations” really means in this context, we talk through concrete classroom logistics, and how a small amount of movement can act like a reset button for attention and engagement. We also get specific about consolidation. If you’re looking for practical station rotation ideas, middle school math engagement strategies, and routines that strengthen math discourse and classroom culture, you’ll leave with steps you can try right away. 

Subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review telling us what station routine you want to test next.

The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org

Transcript

Joel 0:17

You are listening to the More Math For More People Podcast, an outreach CPM educational program. Boom.

Misty 0:32

Today, April 24th.

Joel 0:37

No.

Misty 0:38

Nope, not April 24th. Today. April 28th? Yes.

Joel 0:44

today.

Misty 0:45

Today, April 28th. What is, what is the day? Joel?

Joel 0:49

Today is national School Bus driver appreciation Day.

Misty 0:53

School bus

Joel 0:54

School bus driver.

Misty 0:55

Wow. Cool. I had some weird school bus drivers.

Joel 1:02

I had some good, I, I feel like I had good school

Misty 1:06

I know necessarily they weren't good, but I had, when I was in like high school, the driver that rode, that drove our route, the route that went by my house. He also did the af, like the afterschools activity bus

Joel 1:17

Uhhuh.

Misty 1:18

And his name was Sid, I think. And he, I'm gonna just say. He probably had a lot of fun in the sixties.

Joel 1:27

Okay.

Misty 1:29

He was, he was a little, he was a little odd.

Joel 1:32

Is that, is that a qualification for being a school

Misty 1:34

I don't, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's a qualification. But, uh, he, uh, he definitely was a little bit not always paying attention to things like I kid you not, there were times that he literally drove past people. He's just driving down the street, you know, driving and it's like, you know, roads where it's like. 45, 50 miles an hour.'cause out in the country. And I remember one time he's just like, zoom right past somebody. And we were all like, yay, you gotta pick him up. And he was like, oh. And he's like, mm. And then like they

Joel 2:04

turn around.

Misty 2:05

down the street'cause he really couldn't turn around or anything. He had just wait you know, not really wasn't probably even a quarter mile, but he was like, I mean, I backed up a little bit, but yeah, it was, uh, he was, he was not always the most attentive driver. I'm gonna say that.

Joel 2:17

I don't, I don't really have, I have memories of my school bus driver being like kind of mean or something, but I don't know how true that was more than I was just, I really wanted to follow the rules, so I remember things like I stayed in my seat. It annoyed me when others didn't, you know, that kind of stuff.

Misty 2:36

everybody was getting in trouble

Joel 2:37

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Misty 2:38

Yeah. They gotta yell at all of us, and I'm only the only one gonna be listening to it when they're yelling. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, so I don't, I. I rode a school bus. I didn't, didn't ride a school bus most of the time. I mean, I went, as you know, you know, I went to seven elementary schools, right? So I went to a lot of

Joel 2:54

Moved a lot.

Misty 2:55

sometimes I didn't. I mostly walked. To school, I feel like through elementary school. Like I remember riding the school bus in second grade, but that was because I lived really close to our school, like two blocks away. And then there were too many kids in my second grade I don't know, there were like 36 kids or something. So then they bused five of us to another school

Joel 3:17

Oh.

Misty 3:18

town. So I would walk to, you know, my school every day, and then I'd get on the bus, and then I'd ride the bus for 20 minutes and or whatever to the other school. So I remember that. And then I remember riding the bus when I was in like sixth grade and on, but everywhere in between I feel like we walked to school.

Joel 3:34

Okay.

Misty 3:36

Yeah. Interesting.

Joel 3:39

I, I think I, I walked in elementary school, but I had to take the bus in high school.

Misty 3:47

I think that's really common because elementary schools, that's the whole point. They put them in enough places, or at least they try

Joel 3:52

Mm-hmm.

Misty 3:53

so that people can go to their neighborhood school,

Joel 3:57

Yeah. Yeah.

Misty 3:57

you have to get bigger and bigger. Hmm.

Joel 3:59

So, for school buses,

Misty 4:01

Mm-hmm.

Joel 4:04

well, we just talked with, Peter Carpenter the other day and he was saying how he used to do those learning events with the school bus drivers.'cause they're the first person that you see every day. I, I like that students see that person, maybe end their day with school activity with that person.

Misty 4:21

Mm-hmm. Yeah. School bus drivers I think

Joel 4:23

Mm-hmm. Yeah, me too. I knew a teacher who wanted to be involved in anything before he retired. So he was the math teacher, taught both of his preparation hours and then also did the morning and afternoon buses and coached his last three years so he could get his retirement up a little bit.

Misty 4:48

I see, I

Joel 4:49

Yeah. But he liked it.

Misty 4:51

what are the things that it says that we should do for school? Bus appreciation. School bus driver Appreciation Day

Joel 4:57

Well, when do you think the school bus driver was? Invented. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't know. But the, the three things that we should do, you should praise and thank school bus drivers.

Misty 5:10

Oh, great. Okay. So we should seek out a school bus driver and say thank you

Joel 5:14

yes. And the second one is ooh, maybe this, this is part of your school bus drivers. Sixties adventure, but give school bus drivers, handmade treats.

Misty 5:29

Oh, nice.

Joel 5:30

Yeah. They enjoy handmade treats.

Misty 5:32

they're like handmade treats. Do they?

Joel 5:35

that, that caught me off

Misty 5:36

well known fact. School bus drivers enjoy handmade treats. Okay?

Joel 5:40

And you can play a fun game

Misty 5:42

Mm

Joel 5:44

called Play, or you play the game spot, the school bus.

Misty 5:49

Spot the school bus. Is this like slug bug?

Joel 5:52

It says you just try. I don't think there's punching involved. You just, you just see how many you can find and you can play with siblings or friends.

Misty 6:02

Yeah. Every once in a while a school bus drives by my street. Maybe one will drive by on this day, and then I could run out there and chase down the school bus driver and say,

Joel 6:11

That sounds fantastic.

Misty 6:14

Cool. Well, if you're in a school that has school buses, it'll be easier to find school bus drivers than Joel or I who are not in schools

Joel 6:21

That's,

Misty 6:21

at this moment. So, all right,

Joel 6:24

thank you. School bus drivers.

Guests Introduce Station Rotation

Misty 6:25

you. School bus drivers. Hey Joel.

Joel 6:44

Hey.

Misty 6:45

Uh, guess who we have here today. That's not gonna be very hard. It's gonna be easy for you to guess'cause you can see them.

Joel 6:51

I good, but who? Who was here today?

Misty 6:54

along.

Joel 6:55

Yeah.

Misty 6:57

so, so we have, so we have Marjorie Cusic, was that you Say your name. Oh, good job for me. Marjorie Uch and Sarah McKitrick, who like. I have not, I've worked with Marjorie a little bit and I, but I don't know if I've ever actually worked with Sarah very much, but they're, yeah, so they're well, Marjorie isn't a classroom teacher specialist for us anymore, but they have been, they were a classroom teacher specialists, our classroom teacher specialists, and we're having them on the podcast today to talk about. A topic that they did a teacher conference session

Joel 7:29

Mm-hmm.

Misty 7:30

And I, all I have in my brain is that it's about math stations and which means I'm gonna learn a lot.'cause I, I don't really know. So, welcome to the podcast, Marjorie and Sarah. We're

Joel 7:41

Yeah. Welcome.

Marjorie 7:42

Thank you.

Sara 7:42

you. We're excited to be here.

Joel 7:44

How, how accurate is Misty? Is it about math stations?

Misty 7:48

You can, you can tell me if I'm wrong.

Sara 7:51

Yeah. Yeah, it is. I think, I think at the root of it, that's what it is. We titled it rotate and Reflect and so it was really about How station rotation and leveraging stations in your classroom. can really support engagement and a whole bunch of different positive learning opportunities for, for students.

Misty 8:09

Okay, so tell us more.

Joel 8:11

Yes.

Misty 8:12

how? Like what? Like when I think about stations, I think that's funny.'cause I think of like math stations. This is gonna show my blind sides perhaps as like an elementary school thing. Like I think about oh, we have station time and like I think of that like with little younger kids. But you're talking about using it in middle school classrooms?

Marjorie 8:33

And So really what it was, it wasn't necessarily the stations and the way that. That you're talking about. It was more of having students rotate around the room doing Possibly different tasks Or similar tasks. So both Sarah and I Have taught inspiring connections. and One of the things that we really wanna get out to everybody is the great materials kit that was included. that can be included in your inspiring connections purchase. and so. we found some of the different lessons that actually had students rotating around the classroom. at their vn pss. And so that was kind of the inspiration for our session.

Misty 9:22

Awesome. Yeah, shout out to the, for the resource kit for ic. Indeed.

Sara 9:27

so helpful. It saves so much time from a teacher prep standpoint. A game changer. once we had it in our hands. Absolutely.

Misty 9:35

Awesome. Awesome. So tell us some more about, so station rotation, I'll change my language. What kinds of things are the, are the students doing when they're like, give me some examples, give us some examples, maybe.

Sara 9:48

So students could be engaging in tasks that build upon one another or they could be different. I would say kind of more isolated tasks that are standalone tasks, but all connected to the same topic. Does that make sense? And so really it, depending upon, your learning intent is that's going to drive what type of station rotation? You may engage in, so there's somewhere, You know, experiences are a little, bit more thin sliced. If you think Peter Lial in his, you know, mild, medium, spicy Type of experience. There's some, where maybe in a, in a chapter closure you know, it's a five or six. minute experience that students engage in before they rotate to a different type of, of task. But it, it can really vary as well as the amount of time that students are engaging at each station.

Misty 10:48

Mm-hmm.

What Station Tasks Look Like

Joel 10:50

So is it, is it really a, a rotation, like building on their knowledge or is it a rotation? Because you kind of said both, like the, there's, they're related and they could not be related sort of thing. So their students, how does that movement work?

Marjorie 11:04

So the activity that, the activity that Sarah, ran during our conference session. it really did have they, they, it built on from one station to the next, where we're gonna do these two or three problems here, and then it's gonna get harder at the next. Kind of get harder or different at the next station where the lesson that I ran through, it was three different problems that were focusing on division of fractions and,

Joel 11:35

and

Marjorie 11:35

The first everybody in the room, at one time was solving their problem using a common denominator, and then they all switched, stations, which meant that they switched the problem that they were, solving. And that that time. I think, um, they had to use a giant one in Order to solve the problem and then they moved to the third problem where the previous two groups had already solved the problem in those two ways. And then the third way they had to solve the problem um, using an area model. or a diagram or something like that. So there, there. are definitely different uses where sometimes it's building on and sometimes it's just trying a different method.

Misty 12:17

So I'm just trying to picture this logistically, right? So there's a certain number of stations on the room for one, for each team, and they're at their station and they're all doing. The same task at that station. You know, solving it with the common denominators you said. And then they're moving to another station, so they're seeing the other team's work, doing the first method and then doing the second method below that, or wherever they're doing it on the VNPS or the paper,

Sara 12:43

Yeah.

Misty 12:44

then moving to another station to do a third time. I see. I see. I see.

Marjorie 12:49

I mean,

Sara 12:50

In each Of, the.

Marjorie 12:51

go ahead, Sarah.

Joel 12:52

go ahead.

Sara 12:52

Sorry, I was gonna. jump in and Missy, each of those times it was a different problem, right? So like the first station, you know, you've maybe got three different sets of problems that teams are recycling through. And so if you have three different strategies you want modeled, each team is doing each of those problems with a different strategy. And then that's happening simultaneously. with another group of. three in a different part of the room, and then maybe another group of three in a different part of the room.

Misty 13:20

I see. So they're not doing the same problem. They're using the same method perhaps in this example. Got it. Got it. Cool.

Joel 13:28

And for Sarah's example too, I'm thinking of does that mean that if they're building upon a concept, they're not necessarily moving around the room? Is the station moving into their space?

Logistics Of Rotation And VNPS

Sara 13:41

You can do it either way. And. so, I think the way that we did it at the conference was Pretty much everybody started, and Marjorie correct me if I'm wrong, but everybody started with the same set Of problems and they could choose where they wanted to start within the set. so where their team felt comfortable with that. And then when they moved stations, then everybody switched to the second set of, of tasks, and then when they moved stations, again, everybody switched to the third set. One thing that I think I found Helpful with stations is just, it's almost like a reset and a refocus of your.

Joel 14:16

your,

Sara 14:18

Mental capacity, right? So even though you could stay at the same place and just switch out to the second set, just moving four feet down the line

Misty 14:26

Mm-hmm.

Sara 14:26

is a nice opportunity, especially for middle schoolers to just re-engage, refocus, restart

Misty 14:33

Mm-hmm.

Sara 14:34

in. a different space. That physical, adding that little physical movement Helps a lot.

Joel 14:39

And if students commented on that, have they, have they given you any feedback on the

Sara 14:45

Um, I don't,

Joel 14:46

don't,

Sara 14:48

they they, generally will say like oh, I like that I moved around a lot. I don't know that they can articulate why or that they can. But they Feel like it makes class go faster when they're moving about more.

Misty 15:00

Mm-hmm.

Marjorie 15:01

Who doesn't like when math class goes

Joel 15:03

Yeah.

Misty 15:07

Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. I love, there's a couple things that you were talking about that I, that I really like about this. I like that there's, that you're still including some element of choice, right? You're giving them a set of problems and they're picking as a team which one they wanna start on or which one they wanna do. And that I like that, you know, like they can find their own entry point or their own challenge point, whatever they're looking for. So that I really, I really appreciate that. The other part I really like about it is that, is that movement you were just talking about, like, one of the things, uh. This, the one of the sessions that the session I did at the teacher conference was a lot, like, a lot of those pieces around movement and, and choice and being able to, you know, engage with it in different ways.'cause students have different needs around that. So I love, I love the combination of those two pieces.

Why Movement Improves Engagement

Sara 15:55

Yeah, and I guess. maybe we wanna reiterate that these aren't necessarily ideas that we came up with. A lot of it is ideas that we read about in the author's vision, right? Like It's it's just been really impactful to think about how we can structure activities a little bit differently. And That's. really supported through the author's vision that we experienced in inspiring connections.

Misty 16:14

Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Marjorie 16:16

it's one of speaking of what the author's vision sometimes. I recently did a similar activity with a group and there were four Different things that needed to be done And so if you had a group of four and basically the kids were rotating the pen every single time they did a task. And so if you have a group of four and you rotate the pen every time, then that First person is always getting on identical task for that problem. So really making sure that you read the author's vision to see, I mean,'cause it would made it very explicit. Explicit. We want groups of three in this problem or, or something like that. We want groups of three so that the task that each person is in charge of or writing for changes so that they are getting experience of doing all the problems. So the author's vision, like when I read that, I was like, oh.'cause I had to completely change what I was doing

Joel 17:14

Mm-hmm.

Marjorie 17:15

because I had groups of two and I'm like, groups of two and group that doesn't work. Um, so you definitely, the author's vision gives you a great idea. You don't have to hold a hundred percent true to it. You gotta do what's gonna work best for your students, But a lot of times it's worth trying exactly what they tell you to do and then make your adjustments as you need. to make'em.

Joel 17:37

Nice.

Misty 17:37

Absolutely. Yeah. And so when you're doing this kind of a activity where you have a st station rotation, like how, what kinds of things are you thinking about when you're doing, like your closure or your consolidation then for that lesson?

Sara 17:56

So much. Right.

Misty 17:58

I know,

Sara 17:59

Um. Yeah, that is obviously I think I. always try to relate my closure back to my learning target. So Thinking about what is the goal of the math lesson of the day but also some of those social interactions and pointing out what worked well for teams. Maybe pointing out, you know, asking the students to identify when you're feelings. Stuck. What did a teammate say to help you move on or to make you feel like it was okay? But also, like I said, there's so much going on in station rotations or anytime you have students, up at those vertical spaces that if you can highlight some things that went well and that were collaborative and supportive and creating that positive culture that you want, I think that's. a great time to do that with the, within the closure.

Marjorie 18:44

Yeah, and I would add to that just finding those students who maybe aren't always successful and finding something that they did successful and pointing it out to the class even not naming. Who it was, but that student then Gets that, oh yeah, hey, that was, that was my group she's talking about and giving them that agency. that, You know what? I can do this.

Misty 19:06

Awesome.

Joel 19:07

It sounds like it opens it up for a lot of opportunities of feedback, of community, of all that sort of thing.

Marjorie 19:12

Yeah.

Sara 19:13

Absolutely.

Misty 19:14

Yeah, I love it. I love it. So how so how often do you, how often do you think people could use this strategy and in what kind of situations?

Author’s Vision And Group Roles

Marjorie 19:24

I think it could be used in an introduction of. a topic more of like a thin slicing kind of idea where students can go around and you can give them specific problems and then have them rotate to the next station, check the problems that were there, move on from there. But also a lot of times in our curriculum, they show up towards the end of a section or at the end of the chapter. a lot. That's where I think the majority of'em that we found, within the curriculum work towards the end of a section, kind of, Hey, let's, let's see. what, you know, it's a great place. It's a, or it's a great place for the students to get that practice that we feel that they need at times. And to, be able to mix it up too, you know, like, what Sarah had mentioned. Not everybody needs to practice from the beginning. Some of us can jump in at the middle, so.

Misty 20:19

Nice. Nice. Anything else that you wanna add that we haven't asked you about?

Joel 20:28

Would you do the session again?

Sara 20:31

Yeah. absolutely.

Marjorie 20:33

think it was, it was probably, Sarah and I have done a couple sessions together and I think that this one. one was the, uh, was well attended, which always makes it easier. The more people you have, the easier it is to have great conversations. So yeah, I would definitely do the session again for

Joel 20:51

Oh good.

Misty 20:52

All right. Well,

Sara 20:52

For sure. And I, and I guess I would say don't be afraid of the stations. You know, It can feel like there's a lot of different things going on all at the same time. potentially when you have three Different problems being solved with three different methods in a couple of different places, But that's really trusting the, the culture and the routines that you've already established within your classroom. And, and embracing that the students can help guide their experiences. Right. Um, so while it can feel Like, there's a lot going on to, to kind of embrace that opportunity because you can, have a lot of really great student experiences and teacher experiences. When you allocate time for it.

Misty 21:36

Awesome.

Marjorie 21:37

I think preparation Is huge. You know, just. making sure, especially like when I did the division of fractions, I had to do every single one of those problems in all three methods. So I knew what I was looking for and I think one of my favorite things to do when students are. at the, um, v NPSs or VNPS is specifically'cause it's easier, is I just like to sit back and watch. What is really happening and where are they going? And every once in a while, throw in a, Hey, why don't you guys stop and scan the room? I notice that some of you aren't going in the correct direction. Let them do that first before I come in. But I wouldn't know if they were going in the correct direction or not if I hadn't attempted the problems myself first.

Misty 22:19

Yeah.

Joel 22:20

Good point.

Misty 22:21

both of those are very important.

Joel 22:23

Yes.

Misty 22:23

Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking with us about this station rotation topic. I'll change it from math stations to station rotation.

Joel 22:32

Mm-hmm.

Misty 22:33

We really appreciate your time and your expertise.

Joel 22:36

Yeah. Thank you.

Sara 22:36

you. Thanks for having us.

Misty 22:45

So that is all we have time for on this episode of The More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description, and the music for the podcast was created by Julius h and can be found on pixa bay.com. So thank you very much, Julius. Join us in two weeks. For the next episode of more math for more people. What day will that be, Joel?

Joel 23:11

It will be May 12th National Odometer Day, and we'll get to celebrate. The invention of the odometer, which many of us use on a daily basis, change the world of driving. So important to collecting data and statistics in the world of driving. It'll be interesting to hear Misty's history with the odometer. don't have much other than driving, and so it'll be fun to look at how to celebrate behind it and. All the stories that come with that. So we will forward to seeing you for National Odometer Day on May the 12th.