Episode 6.2: Donald Duck! and Part 2 of Adult Learning with Peter Carpenter

Donald Duck ... Love him? Find him annoying? Or do you want him banned? (That story is fake, by the way....)

Then we pick up part two of our conversation with Peter Carpenter to get clear about something schools confuse constantly: adult learning is not one thing. Peter breaks it down into three practical buckets: training, professional development, and professional learning. Listen to find out the difference for yourself!

Then our final installment of Join Them on Their Journey from Chi Lo in Alameda, California with a candid end-of-year reflection on classroom management, planning, and what changed when his team added weekly quizzes for more timely feedback and family engagement. 

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review so more educators can find the show.

The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
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Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org

Transcript

Donald Duck Day And Weird Facts

Joel 0:16

You are listening to the More Math for More People podcast, an outreach of CPM Educational Program. Boom.

Misty 0:31

Okay, here's our brand new, never done before

Joel 0:36

before Never done. We would never, never repeat

Misty 0:39

We've never repeated this one before.

Joel 0:43

So on June 9th is Donald Duck Day.

Misty 0:46

Oh, well we certainly haven't done Donald Duck Day.

Joel 0:48

No. In case, in case you-

Misty 0:53

if you're a longtime listener, you might recognize that we've repeated a day of. We did not know that we repeated a day of until after we recorded it. So now we're doing Donald Duck Day though.

Joel 1:03

right.

Misty 1:04

And I know for certain we have never done Donald Duck Day.

Joel 1:07

Yeah.

Misty 1:08

Donald Duck Day?

Joel 1:10

Yeah. We're celebrating

Misty 1:12

at OSU are gonna be really happy.

Joel 1:14

Yeah. What is it, what else do you know about Donald Duck?

Misty 1:18

um, I find Donald Duck a little bit irritating. Isn't he hard to understand? 'Cause he's...

Joel 1:24

Well, he... It's kinda like a quack, a lisp quack sort

Misty 1:30

Does... Yeah. I mean, I find, I don't know. I'm not really big on a lot of cartoon characters. Sometimes they're just, they, their, their caricatures are too extreme, and I begin to find them irritating.

Joel 1:43

Oh.

Misty 1:45

I mean, I don't know anything else about Donald Duck. He has two, he has nephews, Huey, Dewey, and Louis. He has a uncle, Ebenezer Scrooge Duck.

Joel 1:52

Yep. A girlfriend.

Misty 1:54

show, Daisy Duck. He had a show, uh, "DuckTales," though he wasn't on it. It was only Huey, Dewey, and Louis, and the Scrooge guy, right?

Joel 2:03

That's right. I used to like DuckTales.

Misty 2:05

uh, my, my stepsons watched "DuckTales," I think. I didn't watch it. Um, he's kinda like second fiddle to Mickey Mouse. That's what I always think of him as.

Joel 2:14

Mm.

Misty 2:16

Like, there's like Mickey Mouse, and then there's Donald Duck,

Joel 2:19

He's always up to

Misty 2:19

even in the s- even in the song, right, they're like, "Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck," right?

Joel 2:25

Yep.

Misty 2:26

it's maybe that's where I get that idea that they're somehow in competition and, and like Donald Duck's like, "No, it's also about me."

Joel 2:34

Well, I feel like he, he probably is always, yeah, trying to get out there in the world.

Misty 2:42

He's not, he's not as big a, you know, big a kahuna as Mickey Mouse.

Joel 2:47

Yeah. Well, I don't know if Mickey Mouse won an Oscar, but did you know Donald Duck won an Oscar?

Misty 2:52

Donald Duck won an Oscar, but Mickey Mouse did not?

Joel 2:55

Yes.

Misty 2:56

surprising.

Joel 2:57

I, I don't know if Mickey Mouse did. I, but I do know that Donald Duck did. It was an animated film, Der Fuehrer's Face,

Misty 3:08

Der Führer's face?

Joel 3:09

Yep, featuring Donald Duck living in Nazi Germany, and it won an Academy Award,

Misty 3:14

In what year?

Joel 3:15

1943.

Misty 3:17

Okay. Mickey Mouse won one in 1932. Of

Joel 3:21

So see, he beat him again.

Misty 3:22

course he did. Walt Disney took it on his behalf, you know, as he

Joel 3:29

Oh, I'm sure. Well, it might blend in with this next fact. In 1978,

Misty 3:35

Okay.

Joel 3:36

Donald Duck was censored and banned in Finland 'cause he wears no pants. So that would be hard

Misty 3:42

Finnish people are really against people wearing pants. That's-- I, I don't think that, that sounds really, like, actually very conservative for Finnish people. I

Joel 3:52

I don't know.

Misty 3:54

and, like, jump in the lake or the snow

Joel 3:57

But I bet they have pan- I bet they wear pants.

Misty 3:59

want people and cartoon characters to wear pants.

Joel 4:02

And you couldn't accept an Academy Award if you weren't wearing pants, would be my

Misty 4:07

Oh, I don't think that

Joel 4:09

connection there.

Misty 4:10

probably Walt Disney or whoever has accepted it also. That was, like, 30 years later. They're really worried. They're like revisionist history, those Fins. They're really worried about something that happened a long time ago. That guy needs pants. So did they... Wait, so now in Finland, can you-- Is there versions of Donald Duck that wear pants?

Joel 4:30

Um, no, he's banned. He was just banned.

Misty 4:32

banned? They didn't get to, like, make him put pants on?

Joel 4:35

No, he's just done. We're done with you. Take your, take your no pants and get out of here.

Misty 4:41

And leave the country. Huh, okay.

Joel 4:46

Yeah.

Misty 4:47

should just have a p- a, like, one wearing pants. Put on pants then.

Joel 4:52

Well, ducks don't wear pants.

Misty 4:55

Huh.

Joel 4:56

Mice do.

Misty 4:57

okay. Mice do.

Joel 4:59

Mickey Mouse, he wore pants, and suspenders, right? Didn't he have suspenders?

Misty 5:04

Uh,

Joel 5:06

When, when do you think that, uh, Donald Duck became the inspiration for the University of Oregon's mascot?

Misty 5:13

Probably around the 1950s.

Joel 5:20

Yes, 1947.

Misty 5:23

Ah.

Joel 5:24

I would say that's around. That's a good... Yeah.

Misty 5:26

mean, that's, I mean, around just before he got the Oscar, right? When, when, when did Donald Duck, like, first, like, I don't know, appear?

Joel 5:34

When, when was Donald Duck invented?

Misty 5:36

Basically, yes, is what I'm trying to say.

Joel 5:41

It was 1934.

Misty 5:44

Oh, so after Mickey Mouse and after Mickey Mouse got his

Joel 5:50

Yeah. His signature blue sailor suit with no pants. D- it just keeps talking about the pants. I don't know why they

Misty 5:58

Really obsessed with the fact that he doesn't wear

Joel 6:00

the p- yeah.

Misty 6:01

I mean, Mickey Mouse is just wearing, like, shorts. I don't even know, Mi- does Mickey Mouse have a shirt on?

Joel 6:06

I don't think Mickey Mouse has a shirt.

Misty 6:08

Nobody's worried about Mickey. Yeah, he's only wearing... And Mickey Mouse is only wearing pants. He's just got those red pants with the buttons on them or whatever. That's interesting. And gloves.

Joel 6:20

Mm-hmm. Did you know that Donald Duck has a sister?

Misty 6:25

I don't think I knew that.

Joel 6:26

Donald has a-- No, not Daisy. Daisy's the girlfriend. Donald has a twin sister named Thelma. Dumb- Dumbella or Della in various stories. So the name changes. And then the sister went on to become an astronaut, so

Misty 6:46

Oh, interesting. Okay. I'm, I'm also curious where, where Goofy enters the picture in. But...

Joel 6:53

Oh, yeah.

Misty 6:54

And what is Goofy?

Joel 6:56

Goofy's a dog, isn't he?

Misty 6:57

Pluto's a dog.

Joel 6:59

Pluto's a dog, but he's not Goofy. He's like a dog dog, a dog's dog.

Misty 7:03

Like, he's a dog-dog, but Goofy's, like, a person-dog?

Joel 7:06

Goo- Yeah, and is Pluto Goofy's dog or is Pluto Mickey's

Misty 7:11

Pluto's Mickey's dog.

Joel 7:12

Yeah. Oof.

Misty 7:14

Oh my

Joel 7:14

There's a lot going on here.

Misty 7:16

the, the Walt Disney universe is confusing.

Joel 7:20

So how are you gonna celebrate? You want some options?

Misty 7:23

sure, please.

Joel 7:25

Okay.

Misty 7:25

I want, I like the multiple choice.

Joel 7:27

You can indulge in Donald so you can there's over 225 movies to choose from.

Misty 7:34

Wow, I didn't know there was that many.

Joel 7:36

Yeah. You can throw a Donald Duck theme party.

Misty 7:41

Ooh, I'm gonna say ixnay on that one

Joel 7:44

Okay. Or you could go to Disneyland or Walt Disney World.

Misty 7:49

Okay, well, that, I could do that today. That would be hard.

Joel 7:53

mean...

Misty 7:54

But, and then I would have to see Donald Duck there. I don't know that I s- I'm trying to remember if I saw Donald Duck last time I went. I don't

Joel 8:02

I don't remember. See, you remember Mickey Mouse, though. I bet you saw Mickey Mouse.

Misty 8:05

remember if I saw Mickey Mou- I'm pretty sure I, I'm n- pretty sure I saw Minnie Mouse.

Joel 8:09

Okay.

Misty 8:10

But I don't remember if I saw... And I saw many Star Wars characters,

Joel 8:14

Mm-hmm.

Misty 8:15

I don't remember the other ones at all. I didn't, I wasn't really paying attention to that part of the park. Okay, well, how are you gonna celebrate?

Joel 8:22

I think I'll turn on one of the Donald Duck movies. Maybe watch a little of those DuckTales even.

Misty 8:29

Great. I'm gonna go find a recording of Donald Duck talking just so I can remember what his voice sounds like.

Joel 8:35

I like it.

Misty 8:37

Enjoy.

Joel 8:38

See ya.

Donald 8:41

More math for more people

Switching Gears To Adult Learning

Misty 8:59

And now we have the second half of our conversation with Peter Carpenter about adult learning. If you missed the first part, please go back to episode 6.1 from a couple weeks ago and listen to part one. Here you go with part two One of the things that I really want us to talk about iS, You really opened our eyes, I think, a little bit in this, like NCPM and our professional learning department around the different sorts of learning, right? I'm just gonna leave them at that, like that, that people do. and how we sometimes confuse them, right? We come in and we think we're doing one thing when really it's another. Do you know what I'm talking about? You

Peter 9:43

I do.

Misty 9:44

with this? Great. So, good. 'Cause I'm trying not to like unv-- I want you to do the, I want you to unveil. Yeah. So can you, can you talk about that and how, like the confusion about which mode we're in, if we're gonna call it that, it actually creates problems.

Peter 9:59

Mm. Mm-hmm. It does. And so you'll notice that as I'm speaking about adult learning today, I'm calling it adult learning. I'm not calling it professional learning. I'm not calling it professional development. And there's a really good reason why I'm not doing that Um, And the reason is, in my mind, that

Why Names Matter In Adult Learning

Peter 10:23

we t- we tend to create experiences for our adult learners, and we will call it something that it's not. And I really believe that if we call it what it is and understand the purpose for it, then the design will actually follow, and then our adults will actually learn in the experience if we understand the purpose, we understand the design, and then we understand What it's intended to do. So for forever, forever, everybody has been calling everything professional development or professional learning, and many times they will use those terms interchangeably. And the reality is they're not the same thing. Neither uh, neither-- both of them have a different, Um, activator to them or a, d- a different reason for needing them. Both of them have a different structure to them, and both of them probably have a different... Um... Gosh, I'm, uh, my word is eluding me. A different result from it that we are trying to get from it. And then we have a third adult learning structure that I would say most of us are doing, and it's the least effective structure, but the one that we default to the most because it's just, easiest. And So, so I'm gonna use three different buckets because we're listening. And so let's just imagine that we have three buckets, and one bucket we label with the word training, the second bucket we label with the word professional development, and the third bucket we label with the word professional learning.

Training: Compliance And Consistency

Peter 12:01

And so I'm going to take and start with training, and I would just ask anyone who's listening, when you think of the word training, what are the things that come to mind for you as an adult learner when you are in some kind of a training stance? And so what it is, is it's a compliance-driven learning model. Something-- The thing that drives it is usually some type of compliance exercise, and usually it's one loop of learning. We all learn the same thing in the same way, in the same structure, and then we get to the end, and we are asking people to stop and do what we asked you to do in the way that we did it, uh, for a lot of reasons, for safety or for, Making sure that we're reliable and consistent with delivery, whatever that looks like. And so training, some examples of training are things like our bloodborne pathogens training That any of us who have taken that could probably tell you what that's going to be. Um, or our slips, trips, and falls or those safety trainings that we have. Those are consistent, the same for everybody in design and require us to comply. So that's the first bucket, is training.

Professional Development: Teacher Needs

Joel 13:22

Mm-hmm.

Peter 13:23

The middle bucket that I would say is what most of us do on a regular basis is professional development. The driver of professional development is usually a curriculum need or a teacher need. And so when we're saying that teachers need X, Y, or Z, we typically will structure learning experiences for teachers and we call that professional development. And usually those are the traditional conferences with choice sessions, or there's a speaker like me who's in front of two hundred people, and I'm engaging you and facilitating and doing all of this other kinds of stuff. So usually, that could be one loop of learning, or that could be two loops of learning that are connected. But the result of that learning is a choice. The teacher stops and decides what they're going to take from that learning and employ in their classroom. It's not compliance. It's not, "You must do this." It's, "Here's all this good stuff. Take what you think is gonna work with your students and go and use it in that way." And so that's professional development.

Professional Learning: Student Needs

Peter 14:37

And then the third bucket is professional learning. All of the research tells us that professional learning is the style of adult learning that moves the needle on student achievement.

Joel 14:50

Hmm.

Peter 14:52

And so when we think about professional learning, the driver of professional learning is a student need. So training is a compliance need. Professional development is a curriculum or a teacher need. Professional learning is a student need. And so we say, "Well, what does our group of students need in order to be successful?" And we engage in a quest or a journey to figure out what is it that we're going to do to try and meet that student need. And so that could be multiple loops of learning on the part of an adult. We used to call that the PDSA cycle, Plan, Do, Study, Act. And so we would say, "Okay, our kids need this particular skill in mathematics. We're going to make a plan. We're going to do it, execute it in our classroom. We're gonna study what happens with it. and Then we're gonna look at it again and see, did it mitigate the learning issue Did it support the student?" If not, then we try again. Plan, Do, Study, Act. Plan, Do, Study, Act. And so professional learning, The structures out there, there are so many. PLCs are a structure of professional learning. Data teams are a structure of professional learning. Um, And, there are many, many, many, many ones. Three buckets: training, professional development, professional learning. I would wager, and I have no data to support this except my own experience- So don't come at me, everybody. I would wager that most districts and schools spend about seventy-five to eighty percent of their time doing training and professional development with their teachers.

Joel 16:32

teachers.

Misalignment Wastes Time And Money

Joel 16:33

Hmm.

Peter 16:33

and probably less than that, significantly less in professional learning. I would also wager that in the process of doing training and professional development, they are calling that professional learning, which it is not. And so we're confusing terminologies. We're confusing structures. And in a time when budgets are being slashed in districts and lots of hard decisions are having to be made about staffing, we look at the adult learning structures we have and saying, "It's not being effective." Well, it's not that it's not being effective, it's we're misaligned. We're implementing structures that are comfortable for us or structures that we have done for forever training and professional development instead of implementing the structure that we know is going to move the needle on student achievement eighty percent of the time and then maybe using training and professional development twenty percent of the time. So it's a conundrum. Um, and I-- But I think that we're poised in public education to make that distinction, and to move it, and to shift it I think we just need people to understand the nuance and the difference between the three and where energy needs to go.

Misty 17:57

And and I think like t-to clarify, You're not saying that training and professional development should never happen. There are places and times that that does-- that, that's the, that is the mode, right? We're not gonna do professional learning around CPR, right? Like, it's, it-- like, you need to know how to do it. You need to know what the, like, practice it, et cetera. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a, like you say, it's like here's a how, it's a how-to, Very much a how-to kind of a thing. And professional development is important because people need to f-fill their gaps. They wanna, like, s- have their own learning. They wanna like, "Great, I'm interested in this and that." And, and it could connect to professional but the, the problem is that we're calling it all professional and then people are like, "Well, I don't like professional learning 'cause I just sit and then that's not professional learning, is it?"

Peter 18:48

Yeah. No, no. And I'm glad you brought that up, Misty, because that is exactly right. We need- all three. We have to have all three. OSHA is not gonna let us use- a professional learning structure around bloodborne pathogens, right? And so the example I always use, and it's a classroom example, is about compliance learning is I'm not going to wander into a science classroom and just say, "Hey students, figure out how to light a Bunsen burner." In that sense, compliance learning is completely necessary, and it is the most we can expect the students to do. In order to do what they need to do safely. However, in the adult learning world, it's very different. Like we will say we're going to do a training structure for something that could be a professional development structure or a professional learning structure. But because we're strapped for time, because we're reacting to things right now more than we're being proactive in planning, because it's the way it's always been done, we just stay there, and it just continues to not necessarily be effective. So yes, knowing your purpose, what's driving this, knowing what's the most that we can expect people to do, and then figuring out what the intended outcome is, that helps you figure out is this gonna be a training need, a PD need, or a PL need?

Joel 20:20

Yeah.

Leadership Choices And Letting Go

Joel 20:21

I I, I'm thinking right now of like teachers who might be in a situation where they need to define that for themselves. Like they not-- They might not being be-- They might not be being led in that way. And so how are they gonna involve themsel and, and really reflect on where they are?

Peter 20:42

Yeah. And I think, Joel, it's a leadership issue personally. Um, I don't think ours-- uh, our, uh, many of our principals have been trained in adult learning theory, andragogy, principles of andragogy the different kinds of adult learning. I think that in our generation of social media and being inundated with video ideas, things that come across, we look at something and go, "Oh, I wanna do that." And it's coming from such a good place, like a really good place. You get excited. It's like, "That's cool. But we gotta stop and be able to say first, "What need is this filling?" And second, "Does everybody need it in the same way? Do we need to like maybe look at diversifying how we're going to present it, or is this something that we need to spend some time on because the kids are telling us that they need this?" And then from their design. And I think teachers are really smart people, wise people, I would actually say-- And they would, they would say, "Put me in a room with my kids' learning problems "With a group of people, and we'll figure it out." And to which I will always say, "100% yes, you will," because they know exactly what they're doing. But as principals, as leaders, as other people, sometimes we wanna just, We're afraid to let go of that control. or We're afraid to let go of those reins. and We feel like we have to structure everything. And not always the So I think it's a, I think it's a leadership issue.

Joel 22:20

a leadership issue. Hmm.

Peter 22:23

personally.

Misty 22:24

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it, and it's interesting to me too, 'cause I think about like, as people are working on, in a professional learning model, right? In a mode, they may discover that they're like, "Oh, well, I need some professional development. I need to go back and like get this piece of information or this skill or training," right? To support the things that they're doing. So it's, it's not a all or one or or even a one or the other. It's a really aligning the purpose with the model

Peter 22:53

100%. And I really-- The thing that I love about what CPM is doing is that you're looking at what you currently have- And you're saying, "Okay, are we aligned? first Of all? With our-- Is our purpose and our intention aligned? And then are our practices, is our andragogy really solid rock solid." And then I think the part that you are moving to is how are we gonna assess its effectiveness? And so you're living in that training PD side right now, but I think you're moving towards more of the, "Okay, once we equip teachers with what they need to be able to implement the curriculum, how do we then support the student learner on this side?" and what would that look like. So I commend you guys for like really saying, "What are we really doing? What do we need to do? And what's the vision going to be for us to get over here?" and work more in the PL side?"

Joel 23:55

side. Yeah. Yeah. I-I'm thinking about an event like somebody implementing versus somebody doing a, a different type of training, but that implementation would have training involved, it would have PD involved, and it would definitely have PL involved. All all three buckets.

Peter 24:12

Well, and think about that, Joel, for a second. Where would most people stop? You

Joel 24:18

they're almost stuck.

Peter 24:18

They would maybe think about it like that, but then they would say, "We get the training done." And then this- five things from central office come down that we've gotta deal with in a school. I mean, it's the reality of where we are- in public education, and then we have to react, react, react. And then so those other two buckets kinda get shoved over To the side here so that we could deal with this other stuff instead of saying let's work our plan 'cause we know that our plan is gonna be effective,

Joel 24:48

our plan is. gonna be

Peter 24:48

for kids. Yeah, it's a

Joel 24:51

true.

Peter 24:52

Which takes me back to it's a leadership issue. Like, it

Joel 24:55

I'm serious. Yeah. As I was, you know. That was

Peter 24:56

I'm, I'm serious,

Misty 24:57

Looking at you, leaders.

Peter 24:59

well, because I was one and I am one, I think still I, I, I can say that, and I include myself in that. Like, it's not me criticizing all of you but not me. I did it perfect. No, I did it wrong too.

Joel 25:12

it wrong too.

Wrap With Peter Carpenter

Misty 25:16

Well, we're coming up against the end of our time here, which is disappointing because it's always so fun to talk with you, Peter. So we wanna really thank you for coming on the podcast and talking about just this little tip of the iceberg even, I feel like,

Joel 25:28

We'd love to have you

Misty 25:28

of the pieces. Yeah. We will have you back on another time.

Peter 25:32

Great. Thank you both. I, I I could talk about this stuff. all day, so but I

Misty 25:39

that is very apparent from

Peter 25:40

Oh, gosh.

Misty 25:41

and knowledge. No, no, no, no. That was a good thing. That was a good

Peter 25:45

Yeah. Thank you.

Chi Reflects On A Full Year

Chi 26:02

Hello, everyone. This is Chi coming to you from Alameda, California, and I cannot believe we made it to June. This is the last week of school, and we have some finals to take care of then it is off to the summer. I think this is a good time to kinda look at the year as a whole and just kinda reflect on the ups and downs. The ups definitely includes having a better management style in the classroom. And also the biggest improvement, I think, overall is, um, knowing how to prepare for a class. I think last year there was some unreasa-unrealistic, um, expectation when I was prepping a lesson, and there are days where I come in and feel underprepared. But this year, I think having the experience from last year, seeing the curriculum once and teaching it all the way through last year helped me with understanding where we gotta put more time on and better anticipate student struggles too. So this year there were a lot of things that we got in front of, like, you know, we, we yeah, there were days where we deviate from the CPM materials and just have more practice on certain topics or certain procedures. That has, um, paid dividend towards our students' performance, uh, as a whole. Um, so I'm curious to see how next year's IM 2 class will fare and but that's what we'll find out next year. The downside I think coming from last year, there were things that I wanted to do differently or little practices that we added, uh, we as in my co-teaching team. By the way, shout out to my co-teacher, um, Ms. Yonen, and, uh, she's a SPED credential teacher, but she's been doing intensive algebra and pre-algebra for a while now, and I really love the way that our partnership works. Uh, she planned for a day we have three days a week to-- of instruction, and she is very actively engaged in our lesson planning and leading the lesson. I would not have made it through my first year without her help, and, uh, I don't think I would have made it through this year if I didn't have her as my partner as well. So shout out to Ms. Yonen. So anyways the downside coming from last year, we Yon and I identified one of the thing that we needed to address was to, uh, to give timely feedback because our grade book is shaped by uh, summative assessments versus formative assessments. Uh, so our summative assessments was the end-of-chapter tests. And there are students who did things like turn in papers and like, did the things that we do in class so that they get an A all the way through, right? But then when we get to the chapter test, like that's when mastery really were required. And you know, there are some student who struggle to show that, to perform on those days. And and then all of a sudden their grade went from a A to a F or a A to a D, and that was really shocking to some parents and students alike, and that wasn't very

Weekly Quizzes And Timely Feedback

Chi 29:23

helpful. So, something that we added this year was a weekly quiz. So that kinda put a little, you know... It, it's not meant to be a big impact on the grade, but just a little reflection on how the student's progress is along the way. And while that was a great idea, 'cause now we can have more family engagement, right? Like, family can see that they miss a quiz, so they gotta make it up or that they seeing their kids with like a consistent low performance and can start asking question about how to help their scholars improve. For all the right reasons, it, it was a really, really, successful tool to add. But with it also comes a lot more preparation, 'cause now you gotta make, uh, two version of a quiz every week, uh, on top of the lessons that you're teaching and adjustment that you're making throughout the week. And also you have, a, a stack of paper to grade at the end of the week. Uh, and I think these are only useful really if you can have them returned within the next week because they're meant to be a snapshot of the week before. So if I, held the paper for three weeks then, uh, we're gonna hit the chapter test, and that kind of defeats the purpose of having the weekly quiz. So anyhow it was a very useful tools for us, for both the teachers and also the students and the families. But it's a huge challenge to add this, like, big piece that needs to happen, like, every week and on a timely basis and there's a lot of consideration that goes into making the quiz as well. It cannot be too long. It cannot be too short. It has to be meaningful, tied to something that we have seen. So, you know, it was a lot more work in that aspect, uh, but it's worth every seconds of it. And even though this year I struggle a lot with trying to keep up with that that is definitely a point of emphasis for next year, To, try to find-- to try to carve out some structure so that I can consistently both design, administer, and also, uh, give feedback and return these quizzes more efficiently. But it is a thing, it is a practice that I, uh, and Yonan intend on continuing. Uh, the question is now just how do I fit that into my workday? Because as you all know, it's really difficult to not bring work home sometimes and, uh, eh, but at the same time, it's necessary for me to put down work at some point and start living my life. So that is something that I will reflect more deeply about and reexamine over summer. Uh, but those are some up and downs from this year. And as kinda, through the two years I've taught so far, something I noticed so far is you know, IM One is traditionally kinda like a gatekeeping class, right? It's a requirement for high school graduation. It is also, the prerequisite for IM Two, so you know, if you don't if you don't pass IM One, you would have to repeat the class or do summer school. Something I noticed that is interesting is of the student who... Well, there's two

Readiness, Habits, And Student Agency

Chi 32:30

piece. Right now we have a 50% grading floor for, um, in, in alignment with the grading for equity practices. What we notice is that, uh, that actually allows some student who shouldn't be passing the class squeak by with a D. Um, and I have some mixed feelings about that. It's not so much that they got a D and move on. It's more that I'm worried they would not be prepared for IM Two. But the most noteworthy thing, observation there is these students who are squeaking by, they're not incapable of getting the concepts. Like almost all of them, when I have a chance to work with them one-on-one, they are they can pick up what we're talking about, and they can, um, actually show we- you know, mastery in those, in those, like, smaller settings. However, the challenge for them is the academic habits, right? And the idea of, like, how to be a student. It, uh, they're coming from eighth grade, like, you know, there wasn't a lot of rigor in terms of the deliverables in h- in the classroom and maybe even, like, classroom management uh, or, like, behavior expectations in the classroom. Uh, so coming into ninth grade, like, there's a lot of struggles with, like, how do we keep track of paper? Are we gonna, get up, out of seats and just tour the classroom every five minutes? Like, how do we how do we look, try a problem, get started on a problem, even if we're not sure about? Um, how do we sit through a problem and, try, fail, and then try a different thing? Those are all very crucial skills to have in terms of problem-solving, um, but especially math specifically. And that's something that I'm seeing is the most, the biggest obstacles to these students who are, who I'm worried about, um, them being prepared for IM 2. Yeah, I think some of them will come with, like, maturity. As they get older, as they, have been to more places, they would, be able to adjust their behavior accordingly. But I also think, I'm also worried that, like, you know, if that's how math classes are to them, um, that Basically, I don't wanna set a precedence for how math classes would be, right? If I decide to let go of these um, non-standard, metrics really are they gonna be prepared to hunker down and put in time to study and put in time to organize and and put in time to claim that agency, uh, for their own learning?

Next Steps With Teacher Research Community

Chi 35:01

So that's something that I noticed and, um, I went to the CPM teacher conference and I was exposed to the TRC, so CPM has a research arm called the Teacher Research Community, and that might be something I would be interested in exploring that space. So, uh, stay tuned. I will be around and, um, I'm looking forward to maybe de- digging deeper into this, um, this observation and potentially finding different ways to address that. Because this whole conservation about like, are all students ready for IM 2? Well, intellectually they are ready. Like they, they are very bright, they're very quick, they're very agile in their thinking. Like they can all learn the materials, but oftentime these are same student who needs you, who, who raise their hand as a default to ask if, how do I get started on this problem? Or or always ask for teacher validation in terms of like, is this right before they proceed. So that is something that I wanna, continue to explore and monitor for the years to come. But uh, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to solve it this summer, but you know, that is something to pay attention to. Anyways, thank you for join- joining me on this journey and if I see you out there, don't hesitate to say hi

Final Thanks And Social Links

Misty 36:31

So that is all we have time for on this episode of the More Math for More People podcast. If you are interested in connecting with us on social media, find our links in the podcast description. And the music for the podcast was created by Julius H. and can be found on pixabay.com. So thank you very much, Join us in two weeks for the next episode of More Math for More People. What day will that be, Joel?