U-R-G On the Go
An informative podcast for the United Recyclers Group. Each week we will feature an entertaining guest that will share their knowledge and information with you, providing you with tips and tools to help you become a more profitable business.
U-R-G On the Go
Eric Downer on Rare Earth Magnets and National Defense
Eric Downer, the Director of End-of-Life Feedstock at Cyclic Materials, joins us to unravel the complex world of automotive recycling. Eric delves into the innovative strategies Cyclic Materials employs to recycle hard-to-recycle EV components, such as those from hybrid transmissions and traction motors. Hear the compelling story of how the company was founded with a mission to address these recycling challenges and discover how their operations are expanding in the U.S., forming high-impact partnerships with Microsoft and BMW iVentures. Eric also highlights Cyclic's commitment to environmental sustainability throughout their recycling processes.
Networking and industry engagement take center stage as Eric shares his experiences from key events like the FADRA and URG conferences. Learn about the significant role Cyclic Materials plays in recycling rare earth magnets, which are vital for national defense and various other industries. Eric provides valuable insights into the benefits of the CORE and CORE bid programs for recyclers and emphasizes the importance of participating in industry associations such as OARA, REMA, ARA, and URG. Don't miss this insightful conversation that covers everything from automotive recycling to e-scraps and medical equipment, and get the contact information you need to connect with Cyclic Materials and promote sustainable recycling practices.
Welcome one and all to the URG On the Go podcast. This is DJ Harrington, your co-host. I'm better known as the cardiologist. I love URG, I love the industry, I love the people. Now the other co-host, who is very active, is Amanda Morrison, who is director of member and vendor relationships for URG, and every week we do our best to bring outstanding people that are in recycling, because this podcast is the true voice of the automotive recycling industry. So, without further ado, amanda, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great, DJ. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm doing excellent I'm doing excellent the weather here in. Georgia is perfect. It's going to be a great day today, and we got a great guest for today too, so this is going to be a great podcast.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm very excited we have Eric Downer from Cyclic Materials here. He's the director of OEL Feedstock and we just wanted to learn a little bit more about Cyclic Materials. They're our new core buyer on our core program. So if you have been paying attention on your URG sales support, they now populate through the core values on there and you're able to select them and build core loads and send directly to them. So, eric, I would love to introduce you and maybe tell us a little bit about you and the history of Cyclic Materials.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Great for being here. Thank you very much for the invite. I really do appreciate it. My name is Eric Downer. I'm the director of end-of-life feedstock with Cyclic Materials. You know, been with the company for just under a year now, so been in the business for about 13 years now. You know, it was probably about a year ago that I was approached by Ahmad Dariman, who is our CEO, and we just sat down and had a conversation and it was perfect. I mean, the guy is just an engineering genius when it comes to recycling and with his process to separate magnets from hard to recycle components. I just had to have a purpose and enjoy what I do, and that's why I joined the Sickles Materials team.
Speaker 2:So how did the business get started and when did you guys get started?
Speaker 3:Sickles Materials was founded about two and a half years ago by our CEO, ahmad Garamond. Ahmad Garamond is a serial entrepreneur. He's also responsible for helping create the technology to recycle EV batteries. And prior to opening up cyclic materials, ahmad was in a meeting with a very prominent EV manufacturer and they said okay, so you figured out how to recycle batteries. That's our problem number one. Now our second problem is permanent magnets, rare earths. How do we do that? And he said I'll get back to you. And that's pretty much how he started figuring it out. Put his whole thoughts and brains to it and he just moved on. And so currently we are located in Kingston, ontario, which is where our spoken hub facilities are. We're in the process of building our spoken hubs in the US. We'll have locations in Arizona and South Carolina, and we have about 50 to 60 employees and contracted engineers on the team currently.
Speaker 2:Oh, very awesome. Okay, and then what is kind of your mission statement and what's your direction for the company at Cyclic Materials? No-transcript.
Speaker 3:So, you guys essentially focus on EV batteries and that's where you guys are trying to focus your buying with the recyclers. Is that correct? No, we're not focusing on EV batteries. We leave that to the professionals. We really focus on components such as hybrid transmission. We also focus on EV traction motors, so electric components that contain permanent magnets is what our focus is.
Speaker 2:That's perfect. That's a perfect explanation. Yeah, because when you say all of that, you wonder what EV components you necessarily are thinking of. So that's all great information for the recyclers to know. And so how did you kind of end up in this industry? You said you've been in the industry for 13 years. How did you end up, you know, starting out here, and how did that process look?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so in my young days, you know, I was just thinking like I want to work in something and I want to do something that has a purpose and then helps the environment. And I mean, what better industry than the recycling industry?
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah, I completely agree. I feel like that was. I went. I went from retail, you know clothing business, so it's all terrible for the environment. Even the process of creating the clothing is terrible, and I feel like that's why I hopped onto the recycling. I wanted to do something better for the environment. So I think that's an awesome, awesome point you have there. I wanted to do something better for the environment.
Speaker 3:So I think that's an awesome, awesome point you have there, exactly, and at Cyclic Materials. We're all avid skiers and we want to make sure there's enough snow for us to ski, for our grandkids and all that so helping get through that as well.
Speaker 2:I love it. That's perfect. So do you have any recent new partnerships and programs? Obviously, we talked a little bit about the core program. Is there anything that you wanted to kind of go over like the core bid program that we had? We're kind of talking about having you guys utilize.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean absolutely. I mean just recently we released a PR that Microsoft is an investor within our company. So not only in the automotive industry, we also do hard disk drives. You know they have a bracket that's neodymium, so we recycle that. So that's a big, you know partner of ours. We're also a company backed by BMW iVentures and you know, just another step forward, you know that's why we joined URG is to help us, you know, accumulate more within the automotive industry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a great way and avenue for you all to get in front of the recyclers and really be able to have them see your name and be recognized as a you know a great avenue to send their cores to. I think this is going to be a great partnership.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So I just kind of want to talk a little bit about what happens to the cores once you receive the load. What does that process look like for y'all?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so basically, when we receive the cores, it goes through a two-step process, what we call a spoke and a hub. So basically the first process is what we call our mag cycle, which creates mag extract. So basically it goes through a shredder and then it separates all the metals, plastics, and then our mag cycle separates the magnets, which is what we specialize in to collect those rare earths.
Speaker 3:Very interesting Once we collect all those mag extracts, everything goes to what we call our repure technology and that essentially just melts down the magnets and brings it to a recycled mixed rare earth oxide. So basically like taking bread and bringing it back to flour.
Speaker 2:Interesting Yep. Just a whole reverse process, essentially.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So what is the process look like for the recyclers that are wanting to send core loads to you? How do you guys, how do they get in touch with you? What does all of that look like? Either via the and we can kind of go into the core program here in a second but other avenue ways to get ahold of you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the easiest way would be to pick up a phone and call us at 1-877-4-CYCLIC that's C-Y-C-L-I-C, or write us an email at info at cyclicmaterialsearth. We have Ryan and Michael who will be more than happy to take your calls and discuss with you a price. And the great thing about us is, you know, we give a fair price. We also cover the shipping, so there's no logistics cost to the recyclers.
Speaker 1:Why don't we take a break? But before I take the break, I want to tell all of our listeners C-Y-C-L-I-C materials, dot earth, and a lot of what Eric is talking about is on the website. The website is very informative and it not only gives you, you know, recycle with us, it gives you news, it gives you careers and they're looking for partners. So a lot of you people that are listening, you may want to partner up with this great company. So let's take a fast commercial break and when we come back we'll listen to more from Eric Downer. Hold tight, we'll be right back.
Speaker 4:URG can help you streamline your business for maximum efficiency and increased profits. Help you streamline your business for maximum efficiency and increased profits. Access powerful software and unique tools. Receive top-level training with industry experts. Network with hundreds of recyclers. Employ e-commerce solutions to boost business. Receive support, resources and discounts Starting at just $150 a month. It's the smartest investment you will make for your business this year. Go to u-r-gcom and click on Become a Member. Your path to a profitable future is just a click away. That's u-r-gcom.
Speaker 1:We're back listeners and, of course, you're listening to URG On the Go podcast. Eric Downer and Amanda are doing a great job. I want to remind all of our listeners that these episodes are archived and we're available on Spotify, itunes, pandora, google Stitcher, iheartmedia, amazon or wherever you get your podcasts. So, without further ado, amanda, you're the lady and Eric is doing a great job. So let's go back to Amanda.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dj. Yes, eric's given us a ton of great information about Cyclic Materials, and they are our newest core buyer on our core program. So if you are a URG member, or even if you're not, please feel free to reach out to me or Kristen Alexander. We're more than happy to get you information about the core program and how you can utilize it and how it can help your ROI on your business. It really is something that is vital to recyclers and has made them a ton of money.
Speaker 2:You know we have the pre-dismantle core report as well as the inventory core report. The pre-dismantle will show you any potential cores on a vehicle before you dismantle it, and then you can actually select cores through there and create core loads and send directly to our 15 different core buyers that we have on our core program, including cyclic materials, and so that is an additional benefit that you can add on. And, eric, I just kind of wanted to touch base on the core bid program. We are launching that with you guys and you guys are going to be utilizing that core bid program for the recyclers to be able to enable their data feed in order for you to be able to see their inventory and bid via that tool. So I guess, eric, what are you excited about utilizing this core program, this core bid program?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's very exciting to be able to see the inventories of the recyclers, to be able to go through it and actually bid and connect directly with the recycled yards yard, to be able to give them a value on some of their stuff that might be overstocked or, you know, might even be damaged. Because that's a good thing about us is, you know, we don't deduct any money. We give you the same value regardless of condition of the core, Let it be damaged, high mileage or even just overstocked the core, let it be damaged, high mileage or even just overstocked.
Speaker 2:That's important, that's awesome. Yeah, I feel like this core bid program will be amazing for just the recyclers to not necessarily have to go and create those core loads. You know you're doing the work on your end to go bid and then they just add them to the core load and are able to ship them. You know that's what URG is about is just making tools and different software that will help you on your day-to-day processes to help with your ROI and getting you know core buyers like cyclic materials that are wanting to dig into the technology and really utilize these different benefits to help these recyclers. I feel like it's just such a great add to our core program. So I appreciate you guys wanting to join in and I think it's going to do really, really well for y'all. I hear that you guys are in FADRA right now or at FADRA.
Speaker 2:Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yes, we are currently here. It's very hot. I'm very excited to get things going on and meet some interesting people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, FADRA is a good one. That one's a really good show. I always love going down there because they have great events as well. I feel like their evening events are so great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, I heard Kristen's here, so looking forward to meet Kristen.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, and Bobby definitely does run a great show. He does.
Speaker 2:DJ. I heard your giggle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you like the social events at Padra. But Kristen is there with URG and Bobby's a good guy. Bobby's been around forever, Eric, so tell Bobby. You tell Bobby, DJ Harrington and Amanda Sarai, but URG has a booth down there and Padra is one of the best conferences of the country. Yep, I completely agree.
Speaker 2:I completely agree. I would agree. Yeah, if you're down there, definitely go visit the URG booth and the cyclic booths and it'll be a great turnout. I think it'll be a great avenue for you all to be able to see the core program live as well. No-transcript. So I just wanted to touch base as well. We've been talking about conferences and we wanted to obviously touch base on the URG conference. I know CICLIC was able to attend. How did that turn out for y'all?
Speaker 3:people in the recycling business, especially auto, automotive recycling. We've actually created some good partnerships with yards that we've been constantly buying some cores from. So it it. It was a very good show. If anybody ever you know questions if they should go or not, it's a must go and must be on your calendars every year.
Speaker 2:Love it, yep, and we'll be in Orlando next April. So if you have any questions about the upcoming show in 2025, please feel free to reach out to us as well. We're interested in having, obviously, vendors and recyclers show up. We had over 1000 attendees in St Louis and we're looking to overshoot that number by quite a bit. Hopefully, that's that's my goal anyway. Do you get the kick out of what my goal is? We can do it. I think it's definitely doable. But we did talk a little bit about on our break. Dj mentioned how awesome your website is and how much information is on there, and he touched base. You touched a little bit about you know, being able to get that information. Can you explain what you were talking to DJ about with your website and just getting all that information out there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the key things you know to keep in mind is magnets are only currently recycled at a one percent rate. Magnets are only currently recycled at a 1% rate and that's strictly due to that. Magnets stick to steel and, you know, it then goes to a metal refinery, melted down and then eventually goes to slag, which will end up in a landfill. So, and not only in the automotive industry, is rare earth important, but it's also important to our national defense because these are found in sonars and GPS tracking systems. You know, a fun story a few years ago is the Pentagon actually grounded the F-45 fighter jet due to the fact that one of their manufacturers, you know, was buying magnets from China, and because that was a national security issue, you know, they grounded the F-45s. And when they found companies like Cyclic Materials that can provide rare earths, you know, they put them back into commission.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's impressive. So do you guys. So it sounds like you guys do you know a full spectrum of different sectors in the business? Obviously, automotive recycling is one, and you're saying the different materials that you guys get. Is automotive recycling one of the main ones, or is it from everywhere? Are you expanding?
Speaker 3:Automotive recycling would probably be about 80% of what we do. We also recycle e-scraps, so HDDs, and we also do medical equipment such as MRIs.
Speaker 2:we touch as well. Interesting, very cool, awesome. Well, dj, do we need another break? Is it time for another break?
Speaker 1:Yeah, we could take a break and when we come back we'll learn more about what Eric is talking about. You don't have to be Canadian to talk to these people. They're intelligent and sharp.
Speaker 4:So let's take a break and we'll be right back. The URG Scholarship Foundation was founded in 2014 in honor of individuals who give their talent, time and very often, their financial scholarships to auto recycling employees and the children of employees that are attending four-year and technical or trade schools to assist with their education. Don't leave money on the table. If you have a child or if you're interested in attending continuing education, this money is available to you. Go to u-r-gcom and click on the scholarship foundation tab. Urg keeping our industry strong through education welcome back listeners.
Speaker 1:of course you know you're listening to the URG on the go podcast, amanda Morrison, who is director of member-vendor relationship. We have Eric on the phone right now and he's doing a great interview. And if you want to hear another industry expert like Eric Downer, dial our hotline number. Our hotline number here in the podcast center is 706-409-5603. 706-409-5603. And yes, shannon Nordstrom is coming on. We've had a lot of good names thrown back out again and, of course, next week or two we're going to have JC Cahill on. So, by all means, you keep your dial tuned to this podcast. So, amanda, I'll pass it back over to you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, dj. Eric and I actually were able to meet at OARA this last winter and were able to discuss, you know, getting them on the CORE program and it was so much fun to meet everyone that was there at the Aura show and it was, you know, just a great opportunity for us to be able to come together and discuss what opportunities there were for recyclers, as you know, urg and CICLIC. So, eric, I feel like that was such a fun experience to be able to just kind of talk. I was right next to you at your booth and I think we both just kind of asked what we did and were able to just come to within 10 minutes or something. Did it seem like it was that quick, like 10 minutes? We decided we needed to work together.
Speaker 3:It was definitely pretty quick and, honestly, it was a great conversation and things went pretty quickly. It was pretty clear what we wanted to do and you know we saw the value in becoming a core buyer with URG to help you know, speed up the process to collect feedstock for our processes.
Speaker 2:Definitely and just kind of the avenue of having all of the recyclers that we do, you know, and having being able to get your name out there and on the core program, I just feel like it's such a good avenue for y'all to be able to have access to the members and especially with that core bid program, I feel like that'll be huge having them enable.
Speaker 2:And so we're getting an email sent out, as well as URG, to inform members on how they can enable that core program as well as you know getting that core program, as well as you know getting that core program enabled as well as the core bid program. So if you have any questions on how to enable either the core program or the core bid program, please feel free to reach out to support or me or Kristen. You can email support at u-r-gcom and that's just a great way to get any information that you're needing from URG. If any of us are out of town, then that way one of us can respond on that support email. But, eric, I did want to touch base a little bit more on conferences. Will you be going to the ARA show coming up in?
Speaker 3:October. Yes, absolutely, we will be there and we will have a booth available, so feel free to come by and talk to us, and we're very friendly people and love to meet new people and have great conversations.
Speaker 2:Definitely Canadian. I love it. That's awesome Yep and very, very friendly people. They're very approachable. So, yes, definitely go talk to them. Urg will be at ARA as well. It should be a great conference in Reno. So please stop by all these booths. All these vendors come out to see you and to just essentially help you grow your business. So I think that's one thing you know I think Eric can probably attest to it too is just going and being able to have conversations with these recyclers and really dig into what you can do for them is key.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. They have a lot of great speakers and a lot of great meetings that go on during that week. It's just a great event to be able to go to.
Speaker 2:Agreed, Agreed, All right. So also I did want to ask what other partnerships or associations are you a part of that you guys contribute to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you named a key one. With Steve Fletcher in OARA, o-a-r-a, we are also part of newly rebranded REMA. We are also members of ARA and as well as URG, as everybody knows.
Speaker 2:Okay, and can you explain? I've actually never heard of REMA. What is REMA?
Speaker 3:REMA is ISRI I-S-R-I oh.
Speaker 2:ISRI.
Speaker 3:They just rebranded to REMA.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't know that. Okay, very interesting, good to know. So do you guys go to ISRI every year then too?
Speaker 3:Yes, we do attend ISRI every year.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay. So that's another avenue for recyclers to potentially see you.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, and we'll be. The next regional show that we will be at is the Midwest show and also Terra, which is the Texas one out of Austin uh, show, and also tara, which is the texas one out of austin.
Speaker 2:Perfect, yeah, urg will be there as well. Awesome. Well, dj. Did you have any other questions that you'd like to ask, eric?
Speaker 1:oh, I think eric was very well explained. The whole program, eric, if some of our listeners are not going to be at one of the shows, uh, what's your email address so they can drop you an email that they heard you on the podcast and you can kind of introduce them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. They can reach directly to me at ericdowner at cyclicmaterialsearth.
Speaker 1:And Downer is spelled the same way. We all think about it right, Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I'm anything but my last name.
Speaker 2:I love that. I would agree.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is for sure, and the website is very knowledgeable. There's so much information on the website and it listed all the investors and you're right, it brought in money from some of the biggest outfits Good Lord.
Speaker 2:Yes, very very impressive. Yes, thank you so much, eric, for coming on today and explaining the process. This has been great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was a pleasure. I appreciate, you know, the opportunity to be here. You know, and help get the education out there on rare earth. You know it's a big topic. You know considering. You know over 90% of this is processed in China. You know, which leaves the rest of the world with no. You know potential resources if they decide not to share them. So you know recycling is the way to go. You know, keep in mind that when cyclic materials are at full scale, this will remove the need for four mines for rare earths. So that's big, big news, because I don't know if many people know how rare earths are mined. It's basically a lot of disruption to the soil. They use hard chemicals to recuperate them and it's just really not good for the environment.
Speaker 1:So just looking at this, Eric, I see that there's a lot of recyclers, that they're losing money or there's found money in their yards but they don't know it.
Speaker 3:Exactly. I get pictures on a daily basis of would you take this? And I'll be like, no, I won't take what's in the center of your picture, but a bit to the right, I will take all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's stuff that they're sitting there with Amanda saying how the? Hell do I get rid of this? But Eric is a house that could take a lot of the damaged stuff, a lot of stuff that they don't have a place to place. All of a sudden they have it. And I'm glad he talked about ARA, because last week's guest was from Pete's and Amber did such a great job and she's one of the keynote speakers for ARA, so this would be great. I'm glad you brought that up, that you'll be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like also the fact that you guys take you know all kinds of you know if it's damaged even, I feel like that's a pretty key point too. So making sure that they're sending photos to you, I feel like is a great idea.
Speaker 3:That way they know they're not missing out on that value, yeah, and it gives people a lot of outlets. You know where. You know we don't discriminate against condition and we just pay the same price for everything. You know we don't let the recyclers work without being paid. We pay for everything upfront, prior to delivery, even before them putting it on pallets for us. You know we make sure that they have the money in their bank. That way, they know we're serious about doing business with them.
Speaker 2:Yep, that is unique, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, eric. It was great. Any party shot, eric? That if you said I wish I had told Amanda this. Is there any parting shots you would like to give?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Some exciting things that we want to do here at Cyclic Materials is, you know, give back to the community. And we've decided that for the month of August, from August 1st all the way to August 31st, for every core that we buy, let it be a hybrid transmission or an EV traction motor, we're going to donate $5 per unit back to the URG Scholarship Foundation.
Speaker 2:That is so exciting. I'm so excited about that. That's phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Eric, that is very, very kind. That is very kind. So, all of you, people that want to donate back to the Scholarship Foundation, you make sure that August 1st through the end of August, this is a great program $5 for everyone. That is phenomenal, eric. Now, how do they? What's the process you're going to do? Do they need to contact you? How do they do that to make sure the $5 gets accredited?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. They can do it through the URG website where they connect with us to sell us their course or, when they contact with us, mention that they are a URG member and we'll be glad to add that $5 if they contact us direct.
Speaker 1:Amanda, that is great news.
Speaker 2:That's perfect. We're so excited. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Eric.
Speaker 1:All right, folks. This was a great interview. Eric Downer did a great job. Amanda, as usual, you did a great job. Amanda, as usual, you did a great job, and we'll see everybody at ARA in Reno, nevada, until the next time you're listening to the URG On the Go podcast. See you next week you.