How Well is Empower Energy Technique (EET) Working for Other Clinicians?

Since my presentation of Empower Energy Technique (EET) on June 4, 2023 during the ACEP conference, I've been curious about how well EET has been working out for them.

I've heard from several skilled energy medicine practitioners who began applying EET in their practices. One of them who emailed me about his use of EET is Mark Bottinick, LCSW, who has been using energy medicine techniques since the 1990s and was the first person who taught me Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT).

He's been using EET with great success and came on my podcast to talk about some of his positive experiences with EET. We also explore EET's limitations and how to use it most productively.

Find out more when you listen to this podcast!

Have a great week!

Contact information for Mark Bottinick, LCSW-C:
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland
Website: Getbeyondtalk.com
Email: Mark@Getbeyondtalk.com
Phone: 301-775-4503

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Transcript

Marc Ronick: 0:02

Welcome to the holistic psychiatrist podcast, a place for inspiration, insight and information on holistic mental health. Join your host, Dr. Alice Lee, and discover critical information on safe, effective psychiatric medication withdrawal. Explore new ideas that enlighten and expand the mind with cutting edge authors and experts along with former patients as they share their miraculous healing journeys. It's time to build your well being from the thought up. It's time for the holistic psychiatrist podcast. Here's your host, Dr. Alice Lee.

Dr. Alice Lee: 0:51

Hello, and welcome to the holistic psychiatrist podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Alice Lee. Today we have a wonderful guest, Mark Botnick, who was the very first energy psychology therapist I ever encountered, who taught me how to do Emotional Freedom Technique back in 2002. He's a licensed clinical social worker therapist, who's been doing wonderful work his offices in Maryland, and silver spring, his very busy and successful energy therapy practice there. Today we're going to talk about an important topic to me anyways, which is a technique called Empower energy technique, abbreviated E T, that Mark was introduced to during the ASAP conference association of comprehensive energy psychology. during that conference, I was presenting on the infinite intention technique and all of its various forms. And Mark came to my lecture on that particular topic. It's been about four months since Mark has been introduced to this technique. And I wanted to create a podcast where the two of us can talk a little bit about Empower energy technique, or E T together, and see how it's working for him in his practice. Welcome, Mark, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell us a little bit more about yourself

Mark Bottinick: 2:12

for doing therapy in about 1997 and felt I needed better tools. I went to a conference. And there were a couple guys in the bookstore at the conference, selling thought field therapy, which had never heard of it sounded insane. Tap on acupressure points, and you can make a phobia go away in five minutes. And I thought this can't be true. But what if it is true. And I held on to the brochure for a year, and then went back to the conference the following year. And this time, Roger Callahan, who invented energy psychology with invention of thought field therapy, was actually speaking at the conference. So I went to hear him and I knew someone in the audience. And so I said, Claudia, what do you think of this? And she said, I use it, it works. Okay, if Claudia says it works, I trust Claudia, amen. So I went and got training and thought field therapy. And once you know, talked about therapy, it's easy to pick up Emotional Freedom Technique. And once you know, Emotional Freedom Technique, you really can move around pretty easily. I didn't at least that's been my experience. I've also use something called ask and receive, which is a little similar to your technique, I think, tapas acupressure technique, and just start doing something called Blue Diamond healing, getting great results with that. And probably what I use the most is logo synthesis, which was developed by Willem Lammers. So anyway, I'm using all of these things. And most of my interventions involve energy psychology.

Dr. Alice Lee: 3:55

Wonderful. And I know that you get fabulous results with your patients. And thank you so much for that introduction, let's just go ahead and start with what got you interested in using et or empower energy technique and adding it to your toolbox when you have already so many other effective techniques.

Mark Bottinick: 4:16

I'm a bit of a fanatic. I just love learning these techniques and adding more techniques to my toolbox. I'm just passionate about energy psychology. And what I really like about your technique is it's about focusing on what you want to create, and then having the intention to heal anything that's getting in the way of that. So you don't need to know what's getting in the way. Now usually, I do a lot of work to prepare the person I'm working with to use your technique by eliminating the barriers that I know are in the way. So let's just take somebody who has fear of public speaking GE where did this person get fear of public speaking, it could be something like, I had a really critical mother, she was always on my case pointing out what I was doing wrong and I became anxious, expecting people were going to point out that I was doing something wrong. And I was anxious, because that was going to help me do the right thing. If I was anxious, I'd be paying attention to myself more. So that I would use something like logo synthesis, to heal all of the memories of mom, saying something critical of me. And maybe the one off memories, like the time she embarrassed me at Thanksgiving in front of everyone, and beliefs. In five, relax, I'm gonna screw up, and I'm inadequate and things like that. And then behavioral software, I need to be anxious when I'm speaking to people. So I say the right thing. I need to be tense and not relax, so I don't make mistakes. So I will smooth the road with logo synthesis. And possibly one of the other tools I use to try to reveal these minor traumas that set up the social anxiety. And sometimes that's just enough, and the results are splendid. But it's really nice, I think to have a tool where you can specify how you want the person to show up, how they're going to feel how they're going to think what attitude they're going to have their emotions, how they feel in their body, like everything, and to essentially install that intention. Now, previously, to learning your technique. If I were to do that, I would use ask and receive by Tom all Taffer and Sandy Radomski, that's a fantastic technique. I think all therapists should know that technique. I've used that one as well. Yeah. And the nice thing about that technique is that when you're using the technique, it surfaces, the resistance to what you're trying to install. And then you can heal the resistance. So when there's no resistance, then you have what you're trying to get. Now your technique is like that, in that we're writing an intention as to how someone is going to feel how, and I've even used it for how their physiology is going to behave. Yeah, wow, the immune system is going to react. Well, it's functional and psychological. Yes, yeah. And the way I think about is will create an intention that if this comes true, it really solves the problem. So I'm kind of thinking about the problem holistically, how are they feeling? What can emotions? Are they having had a feeling in their body? What kind of thoughts did they have? What's their general attitude? What are they assuming about others? How are they thinking about themselves, I'm like, trying to think about the problem from all these different directions, and then creating an intention that's going to solve all the problems. But create an intention. That's a succinct, so a paragraph, not a white paper. And then with your technique, of course, I follow the intention, with the intention to heal anything that's in the way of that happening, your technique as a standard, generic, if you will, instruction to for anything that's going to get in the way to be healed. And then I will add to that as necessary, and like specify things that I know specifically need to be healed. I'll throw that in. And so I learned this technique from you at the conference. I wanted to be supportive to you. So I showed up at your training. But I didn't know that I was going to be adding something to my tool chest that was going to be so powerful. I didn't expect it really. But I started to use it. And I was like, Oh, wow, this is like, great. I'm helping people really make breakthroughs here.

Dr. Alice Lee: 9:09

Well, before you share with us, all of the breakthroughs you're discovering through E T. One of the things I wanted to mention that I think is different about the E T technique is that connection, that intention to connect to life energy, which is the idealized source of energy. And if you recall, during the conference, I demonstrated in the conference how you could like in an energy pass, you can focus and breathe deeply and visualize light and all that wonderful stuff. But until you connect to that idealized source of energy, the energy testing for that person is still staying at their baseline. But once that intention of connection to life energy is set, you can actually muscle test the power CERN and show that now the person's energy state is much more powerful. And I think that's something that has been missing in a lot of the techniques, because it's always about setting positive intentions, but not really setting the stage by having a good energy source that will empower the healing process in a way that's different from the person's baseline energy state. And maybe you can talk a little bit about that difference, because it is, I think, in some ways, introducing almost like a spiritual element to the E T, that's different from just cognitive shifts.

Mark Bottinick: 10:40

Well, I think you're onto something. I've been studying film Marlins Blue Diamond healing techniques, and he agrees with you that connecting to source can really make a huge difference. Especially for sticky problems, there are some problems that just easily disappear. And you really can't get rid of the phobia and five minutes, sometimes. But there are other problems that really are sticky. And you can work years on trying to help somebody really eradicate something, connecting to source might be kind of a magic ingredient that helps someone get over that hump and get the relief that they're looking for. It's hard to know the mechanism of action in any of these things, right.

Dr. Alice Lee: 11:29

We're working within visible energy. The only other thing that I would say is very different about the technique is the clear intention to deliver the healing energies through space time. So whether it's in the past, present future, and also helping to heal at different levels of being, whether it's spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, or social. And I think setting the stage that you are intending to send this source of energy to whatever area that person needs, in terms of levels and time is not something that often clearly gets stated in some of these other techniques. And it really does depend on the level of openness of the therapists to think that's possible. Otherwise, if you don't have that kind of openness or shifting your paradigm, you will only work on this specific technique. And you might miss out on how that energy might be beyond space time that we are connecting to, and how it can heal in ways that may be a little bit different one from what we experienced when we're in our physical body.

Mark Bottinick: 12:42

Well, I'm certainly a believer that our past and not just our past, but the past of our ancestral past can have an impact on us. So I think there's some research that shows this is not a crazy idea where the habituated mice to be afraid of an artificial smell a smell they would never encounter in nature. And the offspring of those mice were also afraid of the smell. We all have trauma in our ancestral lines. And the idea of having the intention of healing our problem, as far back as necessary is why not?

Dr. Alice Lee: 13:22

Yeah, I do feel like so much information is carried in the information in our DNA, a lot of it ends up being just seen as biological shifts in our body, whether we have the ability to methylate or activate certain vitamins or whatever. But I think that those biological outcomes have its source ultimately, and experiences and information that been gathered over the years, and maybe in our ancestral lineage. All these things are. That's why I think during the ASAP conference, I was presenting the universal principles First, to introduce people to these are universal principles. I didn't think about them from scratch. But we are trying to integrate all of those universal principles into this very succinct technique. And what I noticed from talking with you is that even though the technique is very straightforward, there's the wrote phrase, and then you stick the intentions in there, whether it's an intention for something positive, or intention to release something negative, that you can just list them. We are different people. And so we give it our own spin, right? We'd give it our own style, and that's fine, because we don't want to be micromanaging anybody's approach to this technique. But you know, with all of these universal principles coming together, I think that's why I like this technique personally, because I could just do so much more work in terms of healing for my patients than some of the other techniques that I've learned and every technique that you've mentioned, other than the blue diamond one that you learned at a step conference last time, I've also been introduced through you. So you're my mentor, you've shared with me so many of these techniques, and I've really enjoyed learning from you. I think it was really when you introduced logo synthesis to me. And there was another clinician that introduced ask and receive as a technique to me that I started to understand that a lot of the healing does not require tapping on our acupressure points, although some people might benefit more from the tapping than not tapping. Having introduced this about the E T, I just wanted to read what the E T technique or in power energy technique is, for those people who don't know this technique. And once I've gone through that, maybe we can then go on to the question of how it's been working for you like maybe some clinical vignettes or something that you wanted to share. Okay, so the technique itself goes like this, it starts with a statement, I now choose to be one with life energy, as a wave is one with the ocean, or as a sunbeam is one with the sun, and be empowered to blank. And this is where you can put in your intentions. The number of intentions I think depends on at this point on the clinician energy testing to make sure that the number of intentions isn't too much work in one moment for the patient. Because everything that you set intention for gets translated into things that need to happen. And if the body can't follow through or whatever, it can be stressful, but you can literally list a lot of different intentions at that point. And then it finishes with the paragraph, I completely and gratefully accept healing energy at all levels of being and through space and time, from life energy to create and achieve the sealing process. I embrace the positive shifts that occur as I heal my beliefs, emotions, fears, pain habits, traumas, injuries, negative spiritual influences, and other blockage blockages that prevent me from receiving all the energy and support I need to heal and empower my life at all levels of being now and through space and time. Now, this final or the current version of ETs a little bit different from the one that I shared, during the June conference, I took out clear and release from the paragraph. And the reason why is because I thought I would keep the word healing, and not focus too much on the clear and release as additional intentions. Because the problem with clear and release for a lot of my patients is that results in pretty high levels of detoxification, because a lot of my patients are ill because they're highly toxic. And that can create a little bit more of a healing crisis for some of them. So I just removed the clear and release from that paragraph. And it opened up more opportunities for more gentle healing process for my patients. So that's the current technique, it's on my website under the Information tab. So if you go to the Information tab, on holistic psychiatrists.com, and then you look for energy medicine techniques, and click on that, it will immediately show the infinite intention technique starts with a simple form, which is energy breaths, intermediate level is empower energy technique, or E T. And the more complex more creative process is called story form, or just focusing on E T today. So I'm gonna throw it back to you Mark, knowing that this is a technique. I'm really curious about what you discovered as you started using E T, with many of your clients.

Mark Bottinick: 18:48

Well, it's been really useful, especially when I don't know what needs to be healed to create an outcome, I can just basically request the outcome. I have a client to overreacts psychologically and physiologically, and it makes sense that this person would have this pattern based on their life history, but wasn't working it was producing very negative effects and is actually causing a level of disability because of the physiological or the reaction to foods and environmental allergens and things like that. This person was really having trouble living a normal life because of this. We worked very diligently trying to heal the kind of the difficult life experiences that set this up. And the beliefs I need to overreact. I need to overreact so I'm safe I need to overreact so I'm good enough all those kinds of angles on it. And we made some progress but was Five steps forward three back over time and a little further, but coming back a lot, and it was a little disappointing wasn't really life changing. Once I did your workshop, and starting to use this, I could basically create an intention that this person's nervous system would work in an ideal fashion, and react to life to toxins to whatever, in an ideal fashion,

Dr. Alice Lee: 20:32

what a wonderful intention. I love that.

Mark Bottinick: 20:35

And it worked worked. Now, we're still working together, that we're still getting all the bugs out, but there's definitely been significant success. And so anxiety has come down, feels different, life feels different. And physiologically, things are getting better. So this person was having these kind of histamine reactions to sorts of things. And now it's not happening. So that was, you know, I mean, I was thrilled about it.

Dr. Alice Lee: 21:13

That's wonderful. And I'm glad that was one of your earlier experiences using E T. Because I know how important it is, for me, when I'm learning a new technique to get a little bit of that evidence, yeah, early kind of success to even keep using it. And you had tried so many different techniques for that man. And when you added the E T, it just seemed like it was doing something a little bit more significant, like in terms of helping that individual. So I'm so glad that you had that positive outcome, then you can just move forward with exploring with that tool.

Mark Bottinick: 21:47

I'm using it with someone to who has schizo affective disorder for non psychiatrists listening, psychosis, mood instability, and we're using this to create mood stability, it's not perfect, but it's definitely is helping. And this person can contact me while they're manic, and can dial that back. Luckily, when this person's manic, they know they're manic, they don't like being manic and wanted to go away. It's not always the case of mania, of course, in this case, person seeking the help. And previously, this person was flipping between mania and depression, mania and depression, there's no middle ground. And we've got a lot more middle ground using this tool of creating an intention where my thoughts are going to arise. At the ideal pace, my nervous system is well balanced. And again, just writing something up, that would address all the ways that his problem is manifesting, emotionally, cognitively, physiological physiologically, as well, as I now I'm a social worker. So I don't know, as a limit to what I know about what's going on a physiological level,

Dr. Alice Lee: 23:11

I always feel like I'm always in the middle, where sometimes I use the energy medicine techniques. And sometimes I'm using the functional medicine tools. And I'm trying to put it together. But what that does for me as a clinician is that sometimes I don't have just one tool that I have to work on developing to help fix the physical body. Like I may not be developing my repertoire of experiences where I'm not using supplements to stabilize mood, when I do energy work, I may say, you know, I can do so much. But then the rest can be handled with the supplements. Whereas for you, you're like doing a lot of work, that normally I leave for supplements, or I believe that the supplements need to work on. And yet you're able to achieve it through energy psychology, which makes a lot of sense, because there's no way you can get rid of phobia, with energy psychology without it changing physiology at the same time. But at the same time, it's very hard for an MD to really, truly fully trust the energy psychology piece to fix the biology piece.

Mark Bottinick: 24:23

I think that if you have a problem, and you're only approaching it from a biological perspective, but there's some energetic psychological problem that's essentially making that biological problem necessary. It doesn't work if you only approach it biologically. I agree. Right now, I know it's possible to be depressed for purely biological reasons. I get that and I'm not suggesting that in that case. You need to use energies, psychology, that could be there. Maybe you're missing some kind of nutrient, you're not processing it right, you're, you have some allergic reaction that's causing inflammation, I get that. But if you believe you don't deserve to be happy, there's no supplement that's going to get beat that's going to fix that. There's no medication, I don't think that's going to really fix that. And sometimes people come in there, the medication is numb them out. They've maybe lost the lows, but they also lost the highs. And so it's nice to have something like energy psychology where you can figure out, oh, okay, so you're depressed because you believe your mother didn't love you. And then you use energy psychology to either make that idea go away entirely, or change your reaction to the reality, then, mood just gets better?

Dr. Alice Lee: 25:53

I do have a question because you are using some of these intentions to clear even memories of things. And the question is, does that cause memory problems for the individual? Are there consequences of just not remembering things?

Mark Bottinick: 26:12

I've been doing this since 97, five days a week all day, right? i Don't dabble in this. This is all day, I'm using these tools. And first of all, no one's really lost a memory. It's not like some kind of electroshock treatment and I can't remember what happened to me in middle school. It's not like that. Now, of course, it what does happen is that your memories become less emotionally charged. Okay, you can still remember, I was assaulted. But when you connect to the memory of the assaults, kind of like a movie saw many years ago, is does not produce fear and anger and sadness and anger, whatever, emotionally neutral.

Dr. Alice Lee: 26:59

So having a client or a patient say he said intention to no longer remember, whatever it is that you I think

Mark Bottinick: 27:07

he'll that you know what I'm going for his healing the memories, not that they're not gonna remember, they're gonna, okay, they're gonna remember them. But there'll be a healer and a memory the neutralized. So you still remember, but what I was gonna say is that we remember, most easily emotionally charged memories, things that are our best memories, the most fun, the fantastic ski trip, and the worst. And so if you neutralize a memory so that it is just like, it feels like a banana you ate two weeks ago. Feels like nothing right? Then you know what happened, but you do start to lose the details. Because when it's emotionally neutral, there's just just not as sticky, it doesn't come back into the mind so much. And so I wouldn't do this if someone had to go testify in court, because I think it could interfere with their ability to to recollect details than to testify about it. No one has ever come to me and said, I'm angry. I don't remember getting beaten up so well.

Dr. Alice Lee: 28:19

Good. That's just something I wanted to clarify. So you gave a couple of really interesting clinical experiences that you found it was helpful for you. I was curious whether you had talked with or heard from other therapists would who were using, we started to use E T, and maybe share what you are hearing in terms of their experiences using E T.

Mark Bottinick: 28:44

Well, there is one therapist who I became friendly with over the course of that conference. And she's beginning to implement it. In her practice. She's doing work. It's was called psycho physio PBD. Do you know what that stands for him spacing on the name basically, psychologically caused illness. Okay. And she's beginning to ambulant this, I think a little slower than nine, then. So I'm not sure what her experience is.

Dr. Alice Lee: 29:20

I remember you had texted me like, like the very next day after you learned et. And you mentioned that one of the clinicians that you were having breakfast with had used it and had some good results. Oh,

Mark Bottinick: 29:34

okay. Yeah. All right. Now, I remember I did have breakfast with somebody the day after technique. I don't remember the details. Now, you could not get something out of this technique, and it's not hard to learn. It's really surprisingly easy, which is great, right? Because therapists graduate and they need to really be effective from the get go. It's great to be able to learn a tool like this, and have something powerful in your back pocket from the start.

Dr. Alice Lee: 30:06

That's great, great to hear that.

Mark Bottinick: 30:09

I used it with someone who I thought the theme was an issue with self care. So we created this beautiful intention that she would deeply love herself and care for herself, and nourish herself and just follow through on what she needed to be well. And she had a an amazing experience. I mean, she basically was visited by spirit guides. I mean, it was just off the charts magical experience. And

Dr. Alice Lee: 30:48

it's just Tuesday for Mark.

Mark Bottinick: 30:52

And she, and she, her behavior has changed. If you have someone who's got an issue with self care, you give them the supplements that they manage to not take them. Yeah, you come on time, or I should dress now but they don't. And it's all subconscious, right? Oh, I'm

Dr. Alice Lee: 31:09

so glad that that happened with the individual. Just recently, I had an individual who came to see me, she was very distraught, she was having lots of panic attacks, she was thinking that she may have to quit her job because she wasn't functioning well at work, fainting, all sorts of side effects, definitely generalized anxiety. I saw her for one session, and the route went overboard and went beyond what she could handle. And she became overwhelmed and developed a lot of these physical symptoms, when there was a really significant betrayal, in a relationship that she had, like a serious betrayal where a romantic relationship went south very suddenly, it was kind of an emergency, I was like, if she doesn't resolve this trauma, she really literally might end up losing her job or go in the hospital. So I did et I muscle tested her or did the energy testing before and after we did the intervention. So I had to introduce energy medicine to her I then tested the muscle testing before and after, when she's tapping into the problem. That's another thing that I use a lot, which is have the person tap into whatever the problem is, as you're tapping into the problem, and you muscle test them, there'll be weak, and then you use E T on the problem, have them tap into the problem again, afterwards, you can muscle test them as they're tapping into the problem, you get a sense of how much of a difference it creates, literally, like if it helps 80%, their energy tone, or muscle tone will go up stronger by 80%. If it's like extremely helpful, they will be rock hard, you know, like granite when you push down on their arm. Anyway, so we worked on the trauma. And then she missed her next appointment. And I had to go away for an event out of state. And then finally we got back and I think several weeks after the first appointment, and she had already gotten better. I think part of was part of it was I did tell her that one of the supplements that a therapist, naturopath, I believe that had recommended to her might make her more anxious. So she removed that. But at the same time, we did the E T. So there was maybe a contributing aspect because she was no longer taking a supplement that may be exaggerating her anxiety as well. But literally, by the time I met with her the second time, which was probably a couple of weeks after our first appointment, she was already pretty stable. She was having panic attacks or chronic anxiety. And in fact, my last appointment with her, which was about a week ago, maybe a week and a half ago, she was telling me she was sharing with me that her boss was having a hard time because of some personal problems. And she was shouldering more more responsibilities at work. And she was still able to function pretty well with all of these additional burdens at work. So I felt like that was a really great turnaround for her because she was no longer obsessing over the trauma and feeling heartbroken and betrayed anymore. And literally, it was just like one session. So I was like, really happy for her. That's great. Yeah. Well, let's move on to maybe some of the things that we're discovering in terms of its limitations, etc. Because I wanted to share with the audience that is listening in terms of what it can't do, like some things that we have to be careful of. Why don't we have you start with maybe some of the things that you're discovering, in terms of limitations for ET

Mark Bottinick: 34:56

it's hard to specify what are the limitations You never know until you work with someone, I don't think if someone was suicidal, and I don't know, our bridge, I would pull out this technique, not that I wouldn't work with someone with suicidal thoughts, but maybe not when they're in an acute state. Some still figuring out what limitations there are. But my inclination is to try to use energy psychology most of the time, because I get really good results with energy psychology, I have some limitations, you're doing different ballpark of work than I am, you're doing biological kind of work. Now you do see limitations psychologically?

Dr. Alice Lee: 35:44

Well, I was gonna say in terms of ET I have discovered some limitations. There's one limitation that makes a lot of sense, but really wasn't as clear to me when I was working with EA T at the beginning as it is now. And that is that the core of EA T is connecting to a really powerful energy source life energy. And I think one of the limitations with EA T, is when someone has difficulty with that, when they set intention to be you know, connected to life, energy, whatever their idealized source of energy is, they may have difficulty with either the spirituality or they may feel guilty, or they might, they'll say the words, but they really don't believe that there is such a thing as this ability to come back to energy that is ideal. I've had actually people where I would show them, like through energy breaths, that when they set that intention to connect to that perfect source of idealized energy, that they can be stronger, and yet, they will still discount it. It just now

Mark Bottinick: 36:45

that you mentioned, I have a client, who's an atheist. And so I have, when I introduced the technique, I basically said, This is what's coming, you're gonna do this, and this, and I used a long form you taught at the conference. And so there's that line in there about being open to open and receptive to receiving spiritual support. He objected to it. So I just dropped it. And yeah, I'm getting good results with him. And he, by the way, is one of those people who advances slowly, I've been using all the techniques I have, and just creeping along, and we've been able to, I think we've been still going slowly or faster than we were.

Dr. Alice Lee: 37:34

Well, with atheists, I think I've asked them what their idealized source of energy is, if they could speak it. And I've had one lady who was an atheist who said that she would want to call it universal force. And when she would connect to that ideal, universal force, like in Star Wars or something, she was very strong. So it made no difference what you call it, yeah, in

Mark Bottinick: 37:59

this, in this case, this person actually knows a little bit about physics and the idea that there, there's energy out there that that was not a problem. But the spirit of the idea that it was the spiritual energy was the problem dropping that didn't seem to diminish the effectiveness.

Dr. Alice Lee: 38:22

It is also helpful when it comes to that word. Spirituality could be defined as love, peace, joy, truth, these are all kinds of spiritual qualities. And to that extent, connecting that word to a religious connotation. That's one limitation, I think is has to be dealt with. It's almost like, if you're not connected, or can't connect to that idealized source of energy, then you're back to kind of your own battery pack of energy. And it's not quite as powerful.

Mark Bottinick: 38:56

Yeah. And if you're working with someone who has a mindset, my problem is biological period. So then they're thinking, so the therapy is just support is going to help them feel better about their biological problem. I had someone I don't think he's interested in working with me, because we just have a different conception of as to why he's so depressed. He wasn't so interested in exploring these non biological possibilities. But you know, that's also a limitation. And it goes out on the style of energy psychology, because he's, this person at least is thinking, Well, the answer is in a medication. It's not believed. It's not memories. It's a chemical imbalance. They bought that hook line and sinker, and that they're sticking to it.

Dr. Alice Lee: 39:50

Right. Thank you for bringing that up. I think that it brings up the second limitation, that's a big one. And that is The more the technique is relying on the mindset, for example, EFT Emotional Freedom Technique, half of it is intentions, but the other half is tapping. So there's actually a physical interaction happening at the skin level and the neurobiology of acupressure points. But when you go into these mind based cognitive techniques like ask and receive logo synthesis, and power, energy technique, it's all mind. It's all based upon your mindset. And I think the second limitation is where that mind is the belief system, the paradigm, the openness, how strong your intentions are, what your focus is, is the person so upset that their mind is all over the place, and they can't really focus on the words that they're saying is the person psychotic, they can't even read the words on the paper. So I think that when we're turning to a purely mind based technique that doesn't require any kind of tapping, it really does require the individual to to be able to suspend disbelief, and to be able to just do it with an open attitude, with intention afterwards, assuming hold that disbelief. But while they're doing it, if their mind is interfering with it in any way, like as they're doing et, or as they're doing local synthesis, or ask and receive, if part of their mind is saying, I hate being here, my mom always makes me come to these therapy sessions, I really need to be doing my homework, oh, I'm hungry, I want to go to this place or that place to eat. And at the same time, they're trying to like do this technique. I would say that that definitely is a limitation for mind based techniques. What would you think about that?

Mark Bottinick: 41:56

Well, it's reminding me of someone who goes through life with a lot of resistance to life. Based on his early history with his dad, I was throwing everything at this young guy trying to help them change. And it took a while for something to work, I think I reminded this guy of his dad and his basic way of being in life as No, and I need to resist you, because you're going to be in your intrusive, so I need you to push back. It took a while for us to get over that hump.

Dr. Alice Lee: 42:37

When you discover that, I think that it's helpful for them, to see how strong their energy he is through the muscle testing when they're in that mindset. So like, for example, if you start to discover that he has this projection, transference towards you, of you being his dad, and he's had this conflictual relationship with Him, then you could say, Okay, go ahead and tap into that feeling that you have, when you look at me, and you think about my, your dad, and let's muscle test you. And now let's have you look at me, and just think of me, as you know, Mark Botnick. And let's muscle test you. And it might help give him this kind of concrete idea of how he might be blocking or lowering his energies, when he's having those kinds of beliefs, which then will motivate him to work on the process, not so much the content, like the process of releasing that a subconscious habit of like, blocking the whole therapeutic process. Because he thinks of you partially, as that same dad figure

Mark Bottinick: 43:45

pig would help with this person is I had to convince him, I come in peace. I'm on your side. I'm not trying to force you into anything. And you want to continue to have this kind of approach, you know, to your life, I think it's going to get in the way if you're if you have this kind of reaction on how's your boss going to feel about that, for example, we're not monolithic, part of us knows, I should get rid of this. And another part of us is no, I need to keep this and it took us a while but we got there.

Dr. Alice Lee: 44:25

Excellent. There is one other limitation that's very common that I think we need to bring up with E T. With et it's very simple. You just make a list of whatever you want to work on. So you can work on like let's say if a person is afraid of the color yellow, just as a silly example, they would say you could list two things. One is I feel positive whenever I see yellow, and the other thing would be I want to clear and release or heal my fear of yellow colors. Okay? So those are two different ways that you can address a problem getting rid of whatever the fear is, or reinforcing a positive reaction towards that which you fear. The limitation that I have is, when a person is trying to address a problem, if you make a list that's like, really long, and if the problem is really severe and core and stuff like that, I think that one of the things I've come to understand is that, because you're connected to that beautiful, infinite, idealized source of energy, it downloads all of that energy into the body and tries to get things moving like it's trying to follow directions, based upon the intentions, the energy is all there, and it's working. But if the biology is not there, if the amount of work required to fulfill all those intentions, is basically too much work all at once. I do feel like the person might notice more stress during the healing process. So one of the things that I've done is like, I'll list a bunch of things. And then I'll do my energy testing and see is this an appropriate amount of work today for the patient, or is a too much work for the individual to try to shift for today. But will it cause a healing crisis that will be difficult for them. So if the energy testing is saying this list of stuff that you've created for the individual gets a green light a thumbs up, and you can work on this whole list, and it's not going to be too much work for that individual, then I will go ahead and do it. If some of them are too much, then I can go down the list and kick out the ones that are maybe too much of an expectation for the body to shift and change. That's another thing that I've discovered with my energy work. Because when you set an intention, that's the energy level, it then cascades into biological shifts and changes.

Mark Bottinick: 47:01

Yeah, I agree. I think I just instinctively choose one little thing, maybe not so little. But I'm not Thoreau. I'm not trying to heal everything at once. So if I'm helping someone with social anxiety, I'm not also trying to help them with their depression because their dog died and their anger at their boss and choose one thing, and this is the thing we're trying to make happen. I'm gonna, for example, with social anxiety, I'm going to feel really good when I meet people feel comfortable in my body assume goodwill, and I want to heal anything that's going to get that would interfere with that all the memories of being bullied in middle school and my mom's criticism and just anything else that I don't know about that's interfering with me having this. Yeah. And then what I expect is that next week, they're going to say, Wow, I noticed the difference. I'm not having that recurring thought. I'm feeling unblocked. Now I'm working with someone who has been working at a high level in business for quite a while, but there's been like a ceiling he's been blocked in by himself. And he got unblocked. He's now really taking steps he's never taken before. To be a rainmaker in his business, while we're using other techniques to try to get rid of things that went away. And we made incremental progress along the way, for sure, very significant progress in helping him be less anxious. But even though he was not as anxious he still wasn't as powerful as he wanted to be. And then we did your technique he at some something really shifted.

Dr. Alice Lee: 48:57

Wonderful. Sounds great. Do you have any other final like statements or things that you want to share with the audience before we finish up our podcast today?

Mark Bottinick: 49:08

Well, if anyone's new to energy psychology, first of all, skepticism is expected. Right? And this stuff sounds out there. At least it sounded totally out there to me when I heard it. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. And it was out there, even as I was using it, I probably use it for three years. See really good results, but thinking, well, it's coincidence. You can't be tapping, gotten rid of her fear. But I really would encourage people who maybe have been doing traditional talk therapy and have not gotten the results they want to look into energy psychology can be a game changer. And you can use it on really subtle things in like what Just awful little things that create our behavior and create our feelings. Like I was in a bit of a an unpleasant mood, why am I in an unpleasant mood right now? And it's like, oh, I'm upset, because I've got three dogs and they've destroyed the backyard and I want to have grass and we're going to track mud in my kitchen is needs to be redone. And we don't have the money for it. And I had some like, why do I need to right now my life is where I want it. Like five years ago, I wanted to be here. So now I'm here, but it's still not good enough. Oh, that's interesting. So I think I have a program software that tells me that there are things in my life that I'd like to change, I need to be unhappy. So that I will know that I need to change them. And I'll be motivated to work on them. Like I couldn't just be happy, because then nothing would get better. So I always have to be unhappy so that I can always be making things better. I think a lot of people are running that program. So I used logo synthesis on that. And really, it was a really big shift. Yeah, so now I'm like, look out in the backyard. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, the dogs tore up all the grass again, I don't need be angry and unpleasant mood just because of that. So I have more acceptance go anyone who is wants to accelerate their healing. And to achieve greater professional success, this can be really a fantastic tool. And you can even, I mean, I taught it to teenagers who use it on their own. I've had grade schoolers learn how to use energy psychology on their own to make changes. Yeah, it's literally that simple. I mentioned on my website, if anyone is in Maryland, and wants consultation, it's get beyond talk.com. Get beyond talk.com.

Dr. Alice Lee: 52:05

Wonderful, in fact that that was actually my next question for you is, how do people reach you and be able to schedule with you. So

Mark Bottinick: 52:14

my email is Mark at get beyond talk.com. I'm happy to set up a consultation. They're actually surprisingly long, because I love talking about this stuff. So I'll hear what their situation is. And then I'll say, Oh, well, do you have any idea how that came to be? Oh, you went through that? Okay. So if we work together, I would recommend we use energy work to heal these memories, and these beliefs and these, these kinds of things that God said up from this experience that you had, which is producing the stuff in your current life that you don't want, you can almost always find the correlation with the current unhappiness, there's usually stuff in the past that if it didn't cause it, it's complicating it. Yeah, your boss might actually be a jerk. But you can't speak up to him? Because of what happened with your dad?

Dr. Alice Lee: 53:11

Oh, my goodness, yes, of course.

Mark Bottinick: 53:14

He'll this. Tell your boss? No, you can't call me at 11 o'clock at night and talk to me in that work? Yeah. So you learned you couldn't do that, because your dad would have gotten too angry. And if you heal this, then this becomes easier to to deal with.

Dr. Alice Lee: 53:30

Exactly. For those people on a reach mark, it's get beyond talk.com. And his email is Mark, ma RK at get beyond talk.com. And for those people who want to learn more about my practice, my website is holistic psychiatrist.com. And that's where you're going to be able to see the podcasts and all my articles and the energy medicine techniques. Okay. Oh, one other thing I wanted to let people know is I will be moving to New York. So I'm going to have two practices. One in Utah, one in New York, starting November 4 is when I will be spending a good portion of my time in Yonkers, New York, where I can also see patients there. So I'm really excited about that. And look forward to adding more patients who can reach me from the east coast as I continue to grow my practice. So for today, I want to thank you and I really appreciate all of the people who have listened to this podcast I am so glad that you taken the time to learn from Mark and I about E T and some of the other energy medicine psychology techniques. One of the things that I hope you got from our podcast is how energy psychology isn't just something you heal at the emotional level and psychological level, but that it can affect all of the levels of being including your biology, and that it can be very powerful and very simple to use. So for those who want to get notifications for the podcast, please subscribe and also go to my website anytime you need are more holistic articles that will come out on a regular basis. And for those of you who wish to integrate high quality nutritional supplements, from reputable sources, and also to support my holistic psychiatry practice, please register for the full script free online dispensary. That helps keep you supplied with industry's largest catalog of professional grade supplements available on my website under the Products tab. So I want to wish everyone a great week. So thank you very much for joining me. Thank you Mark once again for being here on our podcast. Thank you so

Mark Bottinick: 56:00

much, Alice. Really great talk to y'all. Thank

Dr. Alice Lee: 56:03

you so much, Mark. Hopefully we'll have you back on our podcast in the future as well. All right, bye bye everyone.

Marc Ronick: 56:11

The content provided by this podcast is for informational purposes only and has not been approved by the US FDA. This podcast is not intended to provide personal medical advice which should be obtained from a medical professional.

Buzz Burbank: 56:41

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