Colin Kingsmill - Planned Passing

On the show today, we’re going to be discussing a rather contentious, difficult topic, but it is one that Canada adopted. We’re going to be talking today about assisted suicide – and that’s when a person chooses their exit. How does the person’s decision affect their family? And how does their family cope with moving through the grief? These are just a few of the questions that we’ll be discussing with our guest today.

We have Colin Kingsmill with us, and he’s willing to share his experience. Collin was a successful banker in Switzerland, where he lived with his family. And he’s since moved, leaving everything behind. He now resides on Canada’s east coast. He also is a successful transformational coach. And we’ll also be hearing how he made that switch!

Here’s what we talk about:

• Understanding that suicide isn’t an easy topic to discuss.
• Colin’s mom had an exit plan prepared. She didn’t want to be a burden on anybody. And wanted to leave in a dignified fashion on her terms. 
• How do these exit plans work?
• Colin’s experience of knowing the date and time of her mother’s meticulously planned passing.
• The effects of the loss on Colin’s life. 
• The struggles that mean dealing with when it comes to grief. It’s important to consider seeking professional help!
• And much more!

Connect with Colin Kingsmill!

Website: https://colinkingsmill.com/

Connect with me!

Website: https://www.understandinggrief.com

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/annedebutte

You don't have to grieve alone, as a coach I can help support you. To discover how grief coaching can help you please book a FREE call with me

To access your FREE resource 12 Ways to Heal https://www.understandinggrief.com
Connect with me:

Website: https://www.understandinggrief.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annedebutte
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reconnectfromgrief

Transcript

Anne DeButte: 0:01

Welcome listeners on the show today we're going to be discussing really, probably, a rather contentious, difficult topic, but it is one that Canada adopted. We're going to be talking today about assisted suicide, and that's when a person chooses their exit as is accepted in Switzerland or made, as it's known here in Canada. How does the person's decision affect their family, and how does their family cope moving through their grief? These are just a few of the questions that we'll be discussing with our guest today. And I'm thrilled that we have Colin Kingsmill with us, and he's willing to share his experience. Colin was a successful banker in Switzerland, where he lived with his family, and he's since moved leaving everything behind, and he now resides on Canada's east coast. He also is a successful transformational coach, so be curious to see how he made that switch. Welcome Colin, thank you. Anne, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me so welcome. Yeah, this is a

Colin Kingsmill: 1:32

rather sensitive topic, isn't it? Sure that

Anne DeButte: 1:38

I don't think too many people are sharing about it, but the grief that is felt can can have a bit of lingering repercussions. Would that be a true statement? Colin, from your experience, yeah, the grief does linger. I don't know if it's connected to, you know, a decision to do made or not. I think, I think grief lingers

Colin Kingsmill: 2:07

because nobody teaches us, teaches us about it, right? It's it's not taught in schools, it's not promoted. It's not part of our culture. I don't think to speak about it until it's there on your doorstep exactly. You have to. You have to deal with it. So, yeah, it definitely lingers. My God,

Anne DeButte: 2:30

we're going to cycle back to discuss that in a little bit more detail. I'm curious if you could go into more of your personal journey and what led you to leave behind a successful career in banking. Let's start. Let's just dive in there.

Colin Kingsmill: 2:50

Sure, sure. So I grew up and decided that I I, I decided that I needed to be successful. I needed to be all of the things that comes with success, I think, as a reaction to the childhood that I had, which was rather bohemian and hippie and laid back and a bit artistic, and I thought, well, I don't want any of that. I want a suit and tie. I want to go to university. I want to be successful. I don't want to have the right cars and the right house and the right trips and all that stuff. And so I pursued it all with vigor. You know, I went to Simon Fraser University. I got a triple major in political science history in French, not because I thought it was super smart, but I really didn't know how to decide which one I liked them all. So I took them all in a triple major format. I moved to Switzerland and got into Swiss banking. I was wearing a suit and tie, and I thought I was absolutely fabulous. And in the sort of decade that ensued, I checked everything off of the list that I had wanted to accomplish. So, you know, success. I had a successful business. I had 25 employees. I had the right cars, I lived at the right address. I had the right watches and clothing and furniture and vacations and friends. You know, it was, you know, Easter in central Bay and Christmas in San Moritz kind of thing. And I woke up one day, it was April 6, 2001 and I had a bit of a spiritual awakening. We can get into that now or later. But I had an experience that showed me that this particular life that I was leading wasn't the whole story, and I I got the impression that I didn't have to achieve anything in this particular lifetime. So the experience was some past life regression. It was unintentional, but it happened. And I saw all of these narratives, all of these stories in great detail with me in them. So I came out of it and thought, Oh, okay. Well, there's no rush. I don't need to do all this right. Now, interesting. We live on a wider spectrum. And I just, I was just like, well, I'm sad and depressed and anxious and unhappy, and this isn't fulfilling me. You know, you couldn't buy enough cars or things or toys or shopping in Milan to satisfy me, and that, that awakening that day, just kind of brought it all home. And I thought, well, I don't need any of this. And I gave everything away. I mean literally, like carte watches to my cleaning lady, mountains of designer clothing to my colleagues that were going to stay in banking. I'm like, well, here you can use this, yeah, and I moved, I moved back to Vancouver, British Columbia, and just started from scratch, from with nothing. So

Anne DeButte: 6:03

we're really getting off topic, but you've raised such an important point here. Was you the epitome of what people have in there? It's everybody's dream, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, but it's not the things that bring us joy, it's the feeling behind the success. And it sounds as if that was possibly missing for you. Well,

Colin Kingsmill: 6:34

100% so I was trying to achieve success as a compensation for something, right? Yeah, so I was, I was trying to achieve success as a compensation for some sort of core wound of unworthiness, right? So I believed that I was not worthy, right? And therefore to be worthy, to be accepted, to be loved. If I did all of these things and had all of these things and performed in a certain way, then I would be loved, then I would be accepted. And that proved to be wrong

Anne DeButte: 7:16

Absolutely, because feeling unworthy, that's something we need to do from the inside and decide we are worthy. We do deserve, right? Well, this sounds like an amazing topic for another day. We could do another, another one, exactly, and this is what happened listeners, when I did the pre call with Colin a little about a month ago, wasn't it? We totally got off topic, but I'm doing this as a way to cushion what it is we're going to be talking about, because I recognize it is a sensitive topic, and some listeners may wish to drop off the call now, because talking about suicide, let alone assisted suicide, might not be something our listeners truly want to listen to Sure. If you are interested, please stay with us, because we are going to sort of go into this a little deeper. You knew about your mom's decision that she had an exit plan, because this is something that people in Switzerland, and that's, I believe, where the you in the family grew up. Is that correct?

Colin Kingsmill: 8:50

Yes, partially between Switzerland and the west coast. So between both of them. Yeah.

Anne DeButte: 8:57

Okay, so how long had mum been interested in her exit plan. I

Colin Kingsmill: 9:05

think my mother was prepared for about 15 or 20 years. She so she had signed up to this thing called the exit society in Switzerland, which is a voluntary nonprofit organization where you, you become a subscriber, and you pay a very nominal amount every, every year, that's, it's, it's, it's tiny. And when the when, when the time comes exit, will help you leave. And they do it very methodically, but I think she just knew that she didn't want to be a burden on anybody, and she didn't want to suffer, and she she didn't want to end up sort of the vegetable in in in a bed for years. And so she decided very early on she must. Been in her fifth, early 50s, and she said, I want to leave in a dignified fashion on my terms. I didn't know that, though, for 20 years like I wasn't really informed. I knew in the last year that she had done this a long time ago, so it's sort of in the last year of her illness. I discovered that she had been prepared and planned for this. So it wasn't a spontaneous decision,

Anne DeButte: 10:33

and that in itself, did that come as a bit of a shock, because when did mom first get her cancer diagnosis. Colin,

Colin Kingsmill: 10:43

she was diagnosed in 2016 No no, gosh, no Gosh, earlier, earlier. It was 2020, 13, I guess. Okay, 14, yeah, 1314, 1516, 17, so

Anne DeButte: 10:59

you knew mom had, was it a considered a terminal cancer. At that point she

Colin Kingsmill: 11:06

got she had lung cancer, and they did a they did an operation. The operation was very successful. So really, initially, in 2020 1320, 13, 2014 everything was fine. The operation was a great success. Everybody was very happy. And for two or three years she was she was okay. She came back clear all the time. So everybody was feeling, you know, quite positive about it, that it was going to be okay. And then I guess it was 2016 early 2017 it the cancer came back with a vengeance, really, from one day to the next and went outside of her lungs and into her lymph nodes. And I think once it was it really, really spread quickly. And I think immunotherapy at the time, was becoming a little more popular, but that wasn't going to work. It really came back with a with very, very quickly in 2017

Anne DeButte: 12:10

Oh, gosh. And is this when you discovered that she had signed up for what you term exit. I

Colin Kingsmill: 12:18

think she had told me it was a little bit before maybe she had some suspicions about not feeling good. But she did tell me within the year, within about a year, she did, she did tell me, and I thought, I mean, it's very universally accepted in Switzerland. There's two ways to go. There's exit, which is this subscription, and you have to have three doctors sign off, and it's, it's a, it's a, it's a very, very well organized program. And then there's Dignitas. And Dignitas is more pay for play. I mean, it's 10,000 Swiss francs, and you can decide that you want to end your life and you don't need all of the medical advisors to tell you that it's okay. So the two quite different systems, but generally accepted in Switzerland. So I thought, wow, you're taking everything into your own hands and and you want to have a dignified departure, and you don't want to end up like your mother, you know in a care home that that is suffering, and she was very organized. I mean, everything was perfectly, perfectly organized. So when she told me, I wasn't really surprised, because it was kind of universally accepted

Anne DeButte: 13:39

there. So when you had the news. It wasn't a shock because of the the way it was readily accepted in Switzerland.

Colin Kingsmill: 13:47

Yeah, the news wasn't a shock until I knew that there was a date that was the shock. That was a bit of the that was the shocker. So at the beginning of 2017 she got re diagnosed. It wasn't looking good. They said she sort of had, maybe had six months to go. So, so that's when she said, I'm going to do, you know, exit, and it will be prior to me being completely incapacitated and stuff. So that was, that was kind of the shocker, the reality that it was so close, but not the concept,

Anne DeButte: 14:25

okay, because all of a sudden you've got a date. And, you know, whereas even with your mom had cancer. It would be termed a sort of an anticipated ending, but we don't know the date, so, right, the hope is sort of there, but then when you got that end date, there's a finality, isn't there to it? Mm, hmm. Is that what you dis use meant by it was a shocker

Colin Kingsmill: 15:06

that that that that part was a bit of a shocker when, and typically with exit, they don't, they don't let you just go. When you decide it has to be clear to both your your the exit doctor, your family doctor, and a third party psychiatrist, that it's close to the end, it's close to time, and letting you live any longer would be really undignified for you and against your wishes. So three medical professionals decide, and it's it. There's a window of, you know, four weeks to six weeks where you can say, Okay, we're ready. And I think we had about a four week, a four week window. And that was a bit like, Oh, wow. It's going to be August 29 you know, the day after our our holiday, that that that brought it, that brought it all home. It's like, okay, we have to organize flights, and

9: 16:04

30am on August 29 is going to be the day and the time that it happens. And then the police come, and then the funeral thing come, truck comes, and it was all very systematic, but yeah, that that moment of knowing the day and the time was a little bit of a shocker. That was for

Anne DeButte: 16:23

sure. It would be you, don't you? It's one thing to be aware, but then when you given the sort of potential date, it's a little harder for your feelings and your thoughts to catch up with themselves. Would you say? Yeah, I

Colin Kingsmill: 16:44

suppose it's like, it's like knowledge and embodiment, right? Like, you know something is going to happen, versus you really feel it in your whole kind of, kind of body and soul. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It the the day and the time and the meticulous list, the meticulousness with which it was planned, and everything associated with it, like they bought an apartment for my stepfather. They partially moved him out. He didn't want to come back to the house again that same night. So it was all very well planned out in ahead of time to make it make life as effortless and easy as possible for him to continue. You know, they created a whole new apartment. She stocked the cupboards and the pantry and the fridge so that it was weird. It was like she was almost still there. And then, yeah,

Anne DeButte: 17:50

you can't imagine. I'm just wondering if by going through all this, it gave her a purpose. She was working towards something. Yes, she knew her death was imminent, but by planning it to the degree you're sharing, it almost sounds as if perhaps she had a purpose and some enjoyment and and knowing that who she was leaving behind was going to be well cared for,

Colin Kingsmill: 18:26

I think it gave, I think it gave her great joy to know that she was in control. She was planning it all of the details. I mean, she even did things like, you know, she she gypped, rocked the attic because she thought it would be better to sell the house if the attic was actually finally finished, you know, and they've had the house for 40 years. But, you know, I think she found solace in and and I, and I remember seeing her checklist, you know, she really couldn't write in the end, but she could read it, and she had her checklist, you know? And it's like, I don't know. I just, it just seems, it seems so lovely that she could just manage this, as if, like any other part of her life, right? I mean, she obviously didn't manage her birth, but she managed every other part of her life with, you know, tasks and objectives and to do lists and and results. And why not this? And she did it. It was, it was very well managed. Was that she enjoyed it?

Anne DeButte: 19:41

Well, it certainly that's what I was, sort of thinking myself for sure, knowing that she was okay with all this. Did it give you

Colin Kingsmill: 19:57

some comfort? See? Oh, yeah. Wow, yeah, oh, it gave me just immense, not joy, but I guess comfort and solace and sort of gratefulness. And it made it so much easier for me that we stayed up all night the night before, and we laughed and we spoke, at least, I tried to understand and giggled. And it for me, it was, it was just wonderful knowing that that she was in control. It was the way she wanted it to be. She she left in, you know, she had a chaise lounge in her sun room, she was surrounded by her flowers, the music she liked her best friend was there. Like I couldn't imagine a more beautiful way to say goodbye and see you next time. Kind of thing. It was, it was it for me it, and I think for everybody, involved having her go that way, as opposed to seeing her kind of disappear in a in a hospice, or disappear in a in a nursery home, or disappear some other way, because the end would have been really awful. I mean, it was just consuming her. Yeah, this was beautiful. She could still walk around. She chose the clothing she wanted to wear, the shoes, like everything was her choice, and she was happy about it. And the last thing she said was, thank you so much for letting me do this. Those were her last words. It's like, Thank you for letting me be in charge of this.

Anne DeButte: 21:45

And I thought, as if that was so important to uh, yeah, she wanted all to the very end, for sure. What a lovely memory, though, that she gave of you as you were saying that you would have been watching her disappear and become a smaller form of who she had been in your life. And now that you can look back and you can see her choosing her outfit and laughing and like it does sound surreal when you kind of go back and you you boil it down a No, I think when we does

Colin Kingsmill: 22:26

kind of, it does kind of, yeah, it does kind of sound surreal, but in a good way, like I'm I'm thinking about all those moments now, and I'm really smiling because she left in joy and in gratitude, notwithstanding all the pain so

Anne DeButte: 22:46

left joy and gratitude. What a beautiful thing to sort of say. I know when we spoke earlier, you found her passing when she did take her last breath to be spiritual, but it also brought you to a very rough time in your life. Can you share the two? Because at the moment, we're leaving mom and joy and happiness and then all of the, I guess reality sinks in, yeah,

Colin Kingsmill: 23:25

and I think, I think so, I kind of see my life in two big chapters, right? That that first one that we spoke about at the beginning was me as a young child, or an adolescent, a young adult, kind of going, well, I want the antithesis of what I had before, so therefore I'm going to spend, you know, 15 years going to school and getting an MBA and becoming an entrepreneur, all that stuff that we, yeah, that we spoke about before. I wasn't living in integrity, right? And I think what, I think I know, what happened when mom left, was I realized I was I was still not living in integrity. I was trying to live up to some kind of standard that I thought she had for Okay,

Anne DeButte: 24:12

those unspoken beliefs, yeah, we sensed as children, but nobody's ever said anything to us. Have they exactly

Unknown: 24:22

and honestly, I think they were probably all in my own head, the stories and the expectations and the narrative that I'm supposed to do this and be this and have this and do the even though it was different than that period, right? It was different than the call. It sort of seeking fabulous success era.

Anne DeButte: 24:44

Okay, I

Colin Kingsmill: 24:45

was, I was still trying to go to a destination that I thought I needed to get to. And then when, when mom left, it was like, Oh, wait, how much am I doing? I. For those unspoken expectations that were probably just self induced. So I did have this sort of again, like another sort of spiritual awakening, or another opening up of of my life story thanks to the end of hers. So So since then, my my story, has been all about living in integrity, living in authenticity, discovering who I really want to be and what I really want to bring to the world, and what I guess my purpose is on on this planet. So, and also I was, I was an only child of an only child. So I think, you know, I think that played into it too. There was really nobody. There's really nobody else in the scene that I was held in that sort of position of no

Anne DeButte: 26:02

aunts or uncles or cousins, is to sort of help you through this period. You were alone. Yes,

Colin Kingsmill: 26:11

yeah. I mean, look, gosh, I still have my father, I have my stepsister, I have my cousins in California, but nobody you know right there kind of going,

Anne DeButte: 26:22

it's here, I am kind of gonna be okay. It's yeah, you kind of come words of comfort in that, yeah.

Colin Kingsmill: 26:30

How did you cope? Oh, I didn't. Well, I don't. I didn't. I started drinking too much. I started taking anti anxiety pills. I certainly I was depressed. I think I took antidepressants as well. So there was a phase of I need coping mechanisms, and I had them all. I but I in the in the and it was also sort of covid. Covid also happened. So there was a lot of isolation. And we were living in Italy at the time, it was like, it was like, covid happened living in Italy, where it was very acute there, and it was sort of this dystopian world, right? And at that moment, I said, I need to go home, not just geographically, but also sort of, you know, metaphysically.

Anne DeButte: 27:49

So it sounds that Colin, with the death of your mom, there was no nothing to tether you to where you were living. What I mean, it almost sounds as if your life started to unravel yet again for you.

Colin Kingsmill: 28:10

Mm, hmm, yes, yes. So in 2001 I hit a wall, right? And said, Okay, let's start from scratch, or let's start again, right? And in 2017 The same thing happened. It was like, oh, okay, let's start again. And this time I've started off in a at home, at peace, feeling integral, feeling authentic, and really embodying much of the things I've been learning about and reading about for the last 20 years. You know, whether it's spiritual awakening or whether it's meditation or mindfulness, all these things I finally embodied them took that

Anne DeButte: 29:02

sort of untetheredness and unraveling for you to find that and that's so often happen when our parents die. We've never lived life without a mom or a dad, if we're lucky to have them into our elder years, and when they're no longer there, it's almost as if the child in US becomes throws a temper tantrum, and who's going to take care of me? And what about me?

Colin Kingsmill: 29:33

Yeah, yeah, very, that's a very good analogy. Actually, I probably did have a bit of a temper tantrum, you know, and and all of those coping mechanisms dulled that, that you know, the pain of hitting myself up against the the walls, I suppose. But, but. Thankfully, I got over them all and

Anne DeButte: 30:03

through that, you're here. I'm curious to know what your biggest challenge was when you were going through that, because it sounds as if you came to terms with mom's choice. She wanted to die dignified and have control over her own death. Sure you could say, what was the biggest challenge in all of that for you? I don't think

Colin Kingsmill: 30:31

there wasn't. There wasn't really a challenge pre that day, like because it was so well organized and so full of love and, yeah, it was just kind of beautiful, the whole thing and how it happened, beautiful and dignified and caring and everything it was afterwards. And I think this is we hinted on this before that that nobody prepares you for grief. I don't think. And I guess the biggest challenge was really the solitude. Okay, you know? Yeah, I think it's the solitude. And I suppose I could have reached out to some support groups, but again, we're not taught that, or I wasn't,

Anne DeButte: 31:26

and we think we have to muster on and cope. Yeah,

Colin Kingsmill: 31:32

yeah, exactly. So I think the hard part was just the solid sort of that solitude and, oh, I have to figure this out on my own, and I'm by myself, and I wouldn't have known where to turn

Anne DeButte: 31:51

with this, Colin is I'm what, how you're explaining. It is beautiful, and I really honor and thank you for going there with me. I'm hoping it can help so many others who are being faced with that their parents or their spouses, decision to have made, or I don't, I don't know how many countries now have signed on for assisted suicide, and I've heard from a few people that have said it was the best thing. They loved it. They got to sort of hear they had a eulogy before the day they got to hear more about mom's life, and then from other people who are really angry at they didn't have more time with the person because they chose that end date, which you knew, as you said it was coming. You just didn't know. But that puts people into such turmoil believing that they could have had more time with them. What might be some of the thoughts you could share? Look, I think,

Colin Kingsmill: 33:17

I think I ponder. I would suggest that if somebody's angry because there wasn't more time, perhaps there was some kind of trauma or something that wasn't spoken about, right? Because if to me, when you say I don't have enough time, means there's some kind of message or some kind of communication or some kind of closure that you may have needed to have, and if you're in that state of mind, I would speak to a trauma and loss therapist because, because, and I've done it because, I don't know if I told you, but remember, I got those letters from my mother, not there. Weren't from my mother to her best friend last September, and I should have never really seen them. They were a gift from my dad. He said, Look what I found. And they reminded me of that childhood that wasn't the easiest, right? It was traumatic for a child. Yeah, so, so, so, I think if there's anger about not enough time, it means something was unresolved, and a trauma and loss therapist can really go back and see what you need to unlock, what you need to to crack open, and what you need to heal and maybe forgive that child or the parent or the people that in the relationship. So that's what

Anne DeButte: 34:47

I'm hearing you say. There's unfinished business, and that's where I didn't I could have had more time with them in the hopes they could perhaps in that space of time, it's. Completed it. Yeah,

Colin Kingsmill: 35:02

there's that or that. I mean, there's also, you know, there may be some, some ego and some selfishness involved, okay, like, I certainly know my stepfather didn't want my mother to go. He was very opposed to it, and made her, I think, you know, I don't think that was an easy ending for those, for them, but that was more his

Anne DeButte: 35:32

stuff was his, exactly, you know,

Colin Kingsmill: 35:36

his, his selfishness. So I think either way, it's a, it's a, if you're feeling this way, it's it's a time for introspection, a time for healing, a time for some analysis and a time for some professional help. Don't do this by yourself. Yeah,

Anne DeButte: 35:58

was there any psychological help for the family to sort of help process mom's decision as you were going through.

Colin Kingsmill: 36:08

Um, I think we could have asked for it. I think exit is very much there when you're a member every year, right? They're there with support and with tools and with with, with options. Okay, I didn't feel like I needed them, but I know they were there.

Anne DeButte: 36:29

Okay, I'm going to ask you a very sexist question. This was just raised on a conversation I was having with a gentleman yesterday. Do you think it was the fact that you're a male, that you didn't

Colin Kingsmill: 36:45

seek help have that got anything to do with it? Oh, probably. Look, I know that men, men are suffering today, right? You know, I do a lot of work around healing and health and transformation, and we just did a men's journey. Men today are are really struggling with things, things like this, asking for help, you know, and I'm certain that that part of that sort of stoic, white, Anglo, Saxon Protestant, I'm okay. Um, was part of my equation too. On undoubtedly, yeah, undoubtedly, because we're again, we're not, we're not talking about, we're not taught taught about grief, but we're also not taught how to mean men in 2023

Anne DeButte: 37:44

and it's complicated. It is because so many men have been raised to see tears and emotions as a weakness, whereas now I believe, well, I know myself, it's an act of courage and resilience to be able to be that way in front of somebody else. It right, to me, takes tremendous, yeah, resilience and willpower to be able to allow yourself to be so vulnerable when you you're feeling the emotion thanks for is that some of the, let me finish that sentence, thanks for going there with

Colin Kingsmill: 38:26

me. Yeah, men today are dealing with a lot, and I think, I think it grief can only compound that those challenges of, you know, performance and position and expectations, etc, etc, yeah, when a lot of the lot of us are overwhelmed and full of anxiety and depressed and not know, don't know what to do with things like, you know, toxic masculinity and how, where did that come from? You know, so Exactly, yeah, very challenging, very challenging times to sense make today, let alone deal with grief.

Anne DeButte: 39:15

Is that something, if you were able to go back and talk to the younger you that you would recommend seeking help? Would you might

Colin Kingsmill: 39:27

100 100% don't go this alone. You're not by yourself. You have your tribe. Get some help. There's professionals out there. Sense making is very hard to do. Our biology is not was not ready for this, right? And and we live in very complex times. So reach out and get help. Find your tribe, find your community. Because. Is, yeah, you know we all, we know all the reasons we all need very, very sure we all need it,

Anne DeButte: 40:07

and that's why I say for my coaching clients that it's great that they're reaching out to me, because grief needs support. It's not a go at go alone, kind of. It's too complex, isn't it? For sure, think

Colin Kingsmill: 40:24

it's too complex and, and I always say to my coaching clients, too or or the people that I work with, is, is I don't want you to have to suffer as long as I did. We can accelerate this.

Anne DeButte: 40:40

Yes, I can help you. I can,

Colin Kingsmill: 40:43

let's get let's get you through this faster than it took me, because it took me two, two sort of midlife crises, right? Early life crisis was a later life crisis, so I've had a couple

Anne DeButte: 40:56

Exactly. Oh, my goodness. I'm just have a one other question I'd like to sort of ask you, if I may. Of course, do you think experiencing unwitness of your mum's assisted suicide has any influence on your work as a transformational coach today?

Colin Kingsmill: 41:20

That's a good question. Anne, um,

Anne DeButte: 41:26

I think it must,

Colin Kingsmill: 41:28

but it's also combined with my belief about the universe, about spirituality, about energy, about where we go, um, my belief in heaven. So and then the fact that, you know, recently, she, when we had our conversation, she came back and said, I'm here that day, which is kind of ironic, but, but yes, because I really, I saw how the spirit left the body right in that last breath. And I'm like, Well, you haven't gone anywhere. You're you just you left this thing. Now you're over there. So, yeah, I felt it. I felt it that the her spirit left, but it didn't leave. It just left that particular,

Anne DeButte: 42:34

the earthly body. They say, yeah,

Colin Kingsmill: 42:39

yeah. I mean, and I felt that, and I saw it, so, yeah,

Anne DeButte: 42:44

so that helps you with the work you're you're doing today, is having that understanding,

Colin Kingsmill: 42:52

yeah, I It's interesting. I haven't thought about it in that way, but I, I you, you certainly nailed something that, now that I think about it, yes, it has an impact,

Anne DeButte: 43:06

and

Colin Kingsmill: 43:08

it has an impact in that I really do believe we all need to rediscover our humanity, our commonality, as opposed to our diversity and all of the labels and the the way, whether it's countries or borders or genders or labels or flags or whatever seems to have seems to have created more separation as opposed to oneness. Yeah, so I'm a big believer in one humanity also because of that experience. Yeah,

Anne DeButte: 43:47

would you like to share with the listeners what was going on that day when you felt your mom's presence?

Colin Kingsmill: 43:55

Oh, it was so crazy. I mean, so for six years I've been, I kind of always knew that, I kind of always felt that she was there, you know, and guiding me. And I've, I've come home to Canada, and I have a red barn, like I did when I was five years old. And so there's all these things that are like, Well, how did all this happen? But the the day that you and I had our conversation, I was woken up at 430 or five in the morning, and it was my mother's voice, like it wasn't a dream, it was I'm here. And it was unbelievable, because I only remembered it when you and I started to have the to have a conversation. But it was really interesting, because after so many years of you know, we lived for 12 years in Europe and and there was this home coming in the last sort of 18 months. And here I am. I'm at home. I'm in my space beside the ocean and nature and the forest and my barn. And all these things that are deeply nourishing to me. And then all of a sudden it's like, Hey, I'm here. And then you and I spoke, um, about these very things, and I thought, and it was the day before her birthday, and I thought, Wow. Well, there we go. Hello, universe. Um, sending, you know, big messages. Talk about flags. Yeah, that was a pretty, pretty cool thing to happen in May that it was her birthday. She said, Hello, I'm here, and you and I had a conversation about it. There was this sort of trifecta of

Anne DeButte: 45:37

Proof of Heaven, I guess, exactly. Thank you so so much for this very authentic conversation, and I hope listeners, it's brought you some solace of your experiencing some of these hard conversations that may be coming up for you. Colin, you wrote a book, and I don't know the title of it. I'm

Colin Kingsmill: 46:06

writing it. The developmental editor has told me to go back to the drawing board on a few things. But it's called fearless, and it's about, yeah, it's about crossing this bridge from fear to Bliss, and none of us deserve to live in psychological suffering. And fear is a big component of that. And

Anne DeButte: 46:31

that is so true, the psychological suffering, the stories and the thoughts, as you mentioned, living life to somebody else's dreams that you thought would make would bring you the love and attention that you needed. Yeah, we truly bring our own suffering. Yeah, so

Colin Kingsmill: 46:57

I'm on this mission, and I'm, I'm like, rediscovering your humanity, live in integrity, become fearless, so you can thrive and live again in freedom. So hopefully, hopefully our conversation has helped some people with a little bit of that. I

Anne DeButte: 47:20

sincerely hope so too, when your book is out, let's

Colin Kingsmill: 47:27

absolutely we can we can we can have a have a session, catch up on, on that I love that. That'd be great. Okay,

Anne DeButte: 47:35

thank you again for being willing to to, to go to this very, very sensitive topic, as I've said, well, listeners, that is a wrap. We're out of time if you've enjoyed the conversation, it's hard to say. If you've enjoyed if you found the conversation insightful and helpful, please follow us, because we're dropping all kinds of topics onto the podcast in an attempt to help others navigate this very, very challenging times. Thank you for being with me today. Colin,

Colin Kingsmill: 48:14

oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Anne, it's been a pleasure. Applause.