Walking the Path of Life: Sylvia's Camino de Santiago Journey

Episode Title & Number: Walking the Path of Life: Sylvia's Camino de Santiago Journey 6-#6

Summary of the show: Sylvia shares her inspiring journey across the Camino de Santiago, highlighting the importance of interdependence, adaptive strategies, and inclusive infrastructure for travelers with disabilities. This episode explores how travel can be a powerful act of resilience and community building.

Key topics & timestamps:
00:00 - Welcome & Episode Overview
01:06 - Sylvia’s Camino de Santiago Journey
02:49 - Preparing with Sight Loss
03:53 - Overcoming Control & Embracing Presence
05:41 - Packing Light & Adaptive Gear
07:32 - Building Deep Human Connections
09:01 - Navigating Diverse Terrains Safely
11:11 - The Multilingual Sensory Environment
18:15 - Finding Peace, Joy & Reflection
19:39 - European Accessibility & Inclusion
22:18 - Visiting Once: Assistive Tech
25:34 - What US Cities Can Learn
30:28 - Sylvia’s Personal Vision & Future

Sylvia's Bio: 
Sylvia has dedicated her career to improving the lives of individuals with visual impairments through leadership roles at several prominent organizations. An inspiring strategist and advocate for high-quality vision rehabilitation, equity, and inclusion, she brings a powerful perspective shaped by her own lived experience with blindness. Beyond her professional duties, she serves on multiple industry boards, contributes as a content writer and podcast co-host for platforms like Bold Blind Beauty, and is an active member of Daring Sisters, a nonprofit empowering blind women. Devoted to her family, Sylvia is also a proud wife of 30 years and the mother of an adult daughter. 

Connect with Sylvia: 

• LinkedIn: @SylviaStinsonPerez
• Website: Total Impact Partners
• Instagram: @SylviaSPerez
• Facebook: @Sylvia.S.Perez

Connect with Bold Blind Beauty to learn more about our advocacy:

• Join our Instagram community @BoldBlindBeauty
• Subscribe to our YouTube channel @BoldBlindBeauty
• Check out our website www.boldblindbeauty.com

Music Credit: "Ambient Uplifting Harmonic Happy" By Panda-x-music  https://audiojungle.net/item/ambient-uplifting-harmonic-happy/46309958

Thanks for listening!❤️

Transcript

Steph

Hello and welcome back to the show. I'm so glad you're tuning in with us today. On this platform, we're dedicated to shifting perspectives and broadening horizons through the pillars of access, inclusion, and representation. Today, we're discussing the world of inclusive travel with our guests and regular co-host, Sylvia Stinson Perez.

Imagine for a moment embarking on a grueling, multi-week, hundreds-of-miles pilgrimage across international borders. Now imagine navigating that terrain with sight loss. I love what Marcel Proust, French novelist, critic, and essayist, has to say about journeying. The real voyage of discovery consists

Not of seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. Sylvia recently laced up her shoes in Portugal and embarked on the historic Camino de Santiago, crossing into Spain. From navigating rugged coastal paths to exploring how international infrastructure rises to meet disabled travelers, Sylvia's journey is nothing short of incredible.

Today, co-hosts Nasreen and Gabby are sitting down with her to explore what it truly means to navigate the world boldly. So let's begin. Sylvia, welcome, welcome. So how does it feel to be in the interviewer seat?

Sylvia

Thanks, Steph. Well, I'm an adventure. So I think it'll just be fun to talk with all of you about what that true adventure looked like for me.

Steph

So now I'm gonna turn the mic over to Nazarene and Gabby ladies.

Nasreen

Sylvia? Steph is right. We are absolutely dying to hear about your wonderful trip. And you know, the reality of that amazing trail, actually. So Silvia, you began your communal journey in Porto, Portugal. And for anyone unfamiliar, the communal involves miles of unpredictable terrain. What steps did you have to take to mentally prepare?

And logistically prepare for a truck of this scale because you know, you're a traveler with sight loss, right? And that can be daunting, and I would bet many people would not even want to try.

Sylvia

Well, I love the word unpredictable because that is probably the best word to describe it. And about five hundred thousand people each year from across the world complete the Camino de Santiago. And there are many paths. And so we chose the one that we ended up walking about two hundred miles in two weeks. And

my feet are still suffering from it. So it wasn't like an overnight decision. We were following people online who were doing it, and I really wanted to do that. That sounds like a real test of resilience and getting out of my comfort zone. So there was a training period. It was kind of a dream that really required lots of preparation.

Just gradually increasing my walking distance. And I think a few of you know that I had an actual injury three months before I was supposed to go. So I had to literally take two months off. So then I was down to like just over a month to continue training. And so one of the things mentally that I faced, and probably I realized this about three or four days into our more about 15-day walk on the Camino. 

So y'all are probably familiar with this: we like to control things. When you can't see, you're always thinking ahead, like, okay, I'm gonna do this, and then this is gonna happen, and this is how I'm gonna manage that. Right. So my husband, he was like our logistics guy and the encourager and all this.

And so I would be asking him, okay, now did you book the room, and what if the room's not good, and blah blah blah blah blah, just all these questions. And like three days in, I was like, okay, all I'm thinking about is the future things. And I need to really focus on what's going on. And when I let the future go and stopped worrying about where I was gonna sleep, what I was gonna eat.

All those things I I really was able to be present. We always talk about this whole concept of being present in life, and I think this was possibly one of the few times in my life where I've really been present for an extended amount of time. My brain quieted, and I'm really now trying to continue that with myself. But we did research.

We figured out how far we thought we could walk, and so we literally booked our accommodations the previous night and sometimes the morning of, based on how we felt. So deciding what equipment to carry was a big thing, and I'm gonna show y'all. This was my backpack. Yes, it's purple for three weeks.

Had one packing cube of clothes. 

Wow. Mm-mm. 

That was really, really hard, and then even the cane, people were asking, what kind of cane are you gonna take? So I am a big fan of this telescoping cane, and I blinged it up a little bit with purple, this little strip of purple, just to kind of give that little little bling for me. And I carried two canes, and I'll talk a little bit about that later. 

So another thing is everyone might notice today I have on a headscarf. And this is one of the headscarfs I wore. And people were like, you need a hat, you gotta protect yourself from the sun. I did get a tan; I think it's gone by now, though. But I don't really love hats; that's gonna take up more room, and it's gonna be less things I can bring. So I came up with this whole headscarf thing, and that has now become my like signature. And what I loved about the headscarf is that you can only take a cube of clothes.

I literally had two pairs of leggings, a pair of shorts, and like four sh nice color shirts, but nothing that made me feel like beautiful. So the headscarf kind of gave me that like, hey, this is just a little piece of beauty on my journey. So it just became something fun.

Nasreen

Wow, that's a lot there that you shared with us about the trip and all the different facets from mentally preparing to the logistics of it. So those are some really great trips for our listeners.

Sylvia

We also had to figure out how to communicate. So I originally thought, I'm going to use my cane most of the time. And we'll get to into the terrain in a bit, but I realized that's not possible for most of it. And so we had created this cool tether system where I could be anywhere from holding onto his backpack to four feet away. And so that became real a really great thing for just allowing me to have that interdependence.

Nasreen

Absolutely. Interdependence very key, especially when we're traveling and we want to do for ourselves. So that's really, really great. And I because and I'm I'm sure in in a hot place like that you don't wanna be all snuggled up anyways, right?

Sylvia

Actually, the temperatures vary from cool to hot. I wouldn't go in the summer because it's boiling out there.

Nasreen

So you were saying that when you went, the temperature wasn't as hot as it should be. Okay, that's great. Which brings me to my next point. So on day two, you had shared an update about facing the real conditions of the trail. Can you please paint a picture for our listeners on what those physical conditions were like and how you adapted to them day by day, 'cause I'm sure that changed on the fly.

Sylvia

Yeah, so we started off on wonderful boardwalks along the coast and listening to the ocean. That was just amazing. Beautiful. But then we encountered things like cobblestone streets, which you absolutely cannot use a cane on, loose gravel, rocky paths, dirt trails. Wow. And on some of the dirt trails, by the way, there were moments where

I used my skills, okay? But I dropped the tether and just walked. And that was so freeing to be able to just walk. But I'd use what was under my feet and listened carefully. I knew that my husband was there to tell me if there was gonna be anything big, but there were 10 to 15 minute times when I could just walk and listen and pay attention. That was But there was also

Big inclines and declines. Wow. We've we crossed mountains. And there were crowded city streets. We walked along traffic. Sometimes we were in what I would call unsafe situations. And there was lots of fatigue. And I had a lot of foot issues. I had eight blisters. I visited the podiatrist twice during my journey, one about four days in and one on the last day. I lost a couple of toenails. I have since lost toenails. It was every day in some way kind of painful, and it was still magical. I just needed to navigate the obstacles that were in front of me right then.

You don't really conquer the Camino all at once. You conquer one step at a time, one challenge, one hill at a time. And isn't that essentially how life is?

Nasreen

That brings me to my next point about the senses of the Camino. You mentioned that you walked over fourteen miles in a single day, and then you kind of found some immense joy in listening to the bird sounds and the unique s sense in the air. When sight is limited, how did your other senses kick in and take shape and help you to connect with the landscape of Portugal and Spain?

Sylvia

Well, as someone who's blind and has been for a long, long time and has traveled a fair amount, I think I have always been focused on what I can get out of this experience that is not visual. Because even going far back

I've gotten very little visually out of an experience. So it is about all the other senses. I'm a pretty avid bird listener. So all the different birds and comparing the birds to what I hear at home and in other places was fun. I use the Berlin Merlin Bird ID app. Listen to water. Water all along the way. Like we started with the ocean waves, but

Through the mountainous areas, there were constant streams running and those little babbling brooks, and that was just wonderful. And then one day we went way out of our way and did a more than 17-mile hike just to visit a waterfall. And I literally laid down by that waterfall.

Because I was completely wiped out. And just laid down by that waterfall and listened to it. And just it was so magical. There was also the sound of rain. And so just the sound of water is so soothing. Everywhere in Europe, this is just a common thing, you hear church bells, and I love to hear the bells ringing. One of my favorite thing was the languages from across the world.

People from across the world walk the Camino, and you were constantly hearing languages from everywhere in the world. there's a greeting along the Camino. In in Portugal, it's bon camino, which is good camino, good journey. And in Spain, people switch over to buen camino.

So you get that con no matter where someone is from, you're constantly hearing that from people. And you can hear the smiles in people's voices. Even though they're tired and they're really having to find their resilience and persistence, you can just hear the smile in their voice. There are also great smells, eucalyptus and pine trees, and of course the smells of lots of animals, which may or may not have smelled good.

Nasreen

Down to the interpersonal connection, Sylvia. The commun Camino is famous for its community. How did fellow pilgrims on the trail with you interact with you? And what do those spontaneous moments of connection teach you about human nature and shared journeys?

Sylvia

Well, we did not encounter anyone else who was blind on the Camino. I do know there are people who have. We did encounter- we didn't meet them, but we heard about a gentleman who was in a wheelchair and blind, and there was a large group who were escorting him across the Camino, which was just amazing to hear about. But

We didn't encounter tons of people who were asking questions about blindness. I think people were super inclusive and kind. I did meet one day this couple of girls who were in high school, and they were doing the Camino as their high school project, and they were supposed to interview people. So they interviewed me because they were like, my gosh, tell us about all your sensory experiences. And then some of the other experiences I had, I loved one day.

And y'all will get this, like the whole bathroom thinking, like, how do I, you know, where where's the bathroom? I'm traveling with my husband who can't like, walk into the bathroom with me. So several times I would be in line waiting, and either someone who spoke my language or a language I could understand would assist me, or

And one person even provided like sided guide and told me, okay, when you go in, this is going to be here, this is going to be there, which was really helpful because things weren't where I thought they should be. And another just funny story is one day we were walking with a group, and they were from Scotland and New Zealand.

And that's what happens along the way. You end up kind of walking with a small group. Sometimes you're just walking yourselves, and sometimes you end up walking with with a group. And so this one day we were walking with this this this group, and the wife asked me a question, and all of a sudden her husband goes,

"You couldn't see? I thought your husband was just tugging you up this mountain." And I turned to him, and I said, Shh, don't, don't talk. Because that's what was happening. He was tugging me up. Don't tell him. But but but yes, people were super like kind and welcoming, and I never felt like people thought I didn't belong. So

Nasreen

That's amazing. And that's actually encouraging for our listeners to know that if they're ever to take on a journey like this, that they'll feel safe and included and feel that they're well represented within this space as well. I mean, generally Europeans are pretty friendly and nice, and they accept people with disabilities. 

Sylvia

What I found is that everyone was really focused on their pilgrimage and talking to people too, but their pilgrimage and how hard that just putting one step in front of the other was. It's hard. I want people to know it is hard. It's not like you're going to just take a walk. It's hard. 

But I think one thing I also realized is that every single person on there was carrying their own baggage. You know, we're all carrying these backpacks. Some people were carrying a day pack, some people were carrying big packs. But we're all carrying something in life. And I think that's a place where we realize we all have the same goal, the same mission. We're all carrying stuff. And to just honor that with each other.

Nasreen

Absolutely. That's beautiful and so encouraging. I I I wanna kinda just flip back a little bit to the word pilgrimage that you just used. I just wanna ask you for part of my closing question, is what did this pilgrimage mean to you?

Sylvia

It really helped me see that we're all just walking the paths of our life and that we're all just doing the best we can to put one foot in front of the other. We all kind of have that same mission in life to find peace, to find joy. And I think there's something special about that. And I'm really trying to maintain that.

That peace and that joy and that presence within myself, which is hard when you get back, and life throws all the stuff at you.

Nasreen

Yeah. So it sounds like you came back very relaxed and sort of very surreal and sort of Zen-like and just sort of more focused, and you're letting yourself kind of stay within that scope, and hopefully you can. So I'm gonna shift gears over here and move over to Gabby, who is gonna look at the global inclusion and infrastructure. So Gabby, over to you.

Gabby

So Sylvia, as you crossed from Portugal into Spain, did you notice a shift in in sorry, in terms of physical accessibility, trail markings, or how local communities accommodated disabled travelers?

Sylvia

Well, I guess not, since I can't really see anything, not particularly, but there are signposts along the way that have these shells or arrows, and I have a little shell here. Everybody carries this little scallop shell. This is the one I carry that marks you as like that pilgrim. I think access is not just those things that we think about practical things like curb cuts, etc., which

In some places were more prevalent than others, but we were also walking through a lot of tiny, very historic villages where sketch a little challenging challenging i'm just gonna go use the word challenging the bigger more developed kind of areas were less challenging you would have better smoother pathways all that but I think what I did find and and it kind of alluded to earlier is that there was always this willingness to assist when needed. Nobody really like

We're like, my gosh, you're blind. What do we do with that? I mean, and I have encountered that in the world, but I did not encounter that anywhere on the Camino. And I think it might be because, you know, people are coming from across the world. There's every age group you can imagine walking. There are lots and lots of older people walking. One day I will just admit that this 90-year-old man who seemed 90 years old just blew past us on a mountain. Just yeah. That was motivating. Keep going. 

So you have all these different people from all walks of life, of all ages. And so I think that it's really just a reflection of society that, hey, we have to accommodate everybody. And I think that that happens there. That's beautiful. Yeah, the greatest accessibility feature that we encountered was people. It was just the people.

Gabby

I love that. You know, you said how people came together, and you know that I think that just adds to that idea of like, one, you know, I know people in Europe are really friendly, but not just them, you know, people coming together and doing a shared activity. I think that's even, you know, more beautiful. While in Spain, you had the opportunity to visit ONCE, the internationally renowned organization providing services for the blind. What was your biggest takeaway from seeing the advanced technology and strategies they used to support independent living and working?

Sylvia

Well, one of my goals while there was definitely to visit ONCE. I've been doing some work in Honduras and trying to even connect them to ONCE because ONCE is considered one of the world's leading organizations for helping people who are blind really live independently and work etc and so i had emailed them and you know a couple of their different offices and said hey i want to visit in this one guy jose he emailed back and said let me know when you're a day or two away and we'll meet up.

And so he gave me the tour of their facility in Pontaverde, which is not their largest one, but it was giant in this beautiful old historic building. Like I think he told me it was like 48,000 square feet, but it has a residential component, which they use in the summer. But what I will tell you is that it was just state of the art. And my favorite, I think my favorite part was the orientation and mobility room. And they're literally working with babies on up.

On how to do echolocation and how to really understand the sounds in your environment and use that to navigate your world. And then they have this whole texture thing on the floor where it had all the different textures that your feet might encounter, and they're teaching people of all ages how do I navigate this. How do I work with this? How do I learn from this? And it was just amazing. And then, you know.

They work within the school systems as well, and they had a Braille embosser that could emboss over 150 pages of Braille in like a couple minutes. I mean, it was magnificent. They had a gold ball team, and they have actually taken people on pilgrimages on the Camino, tour groups of people who are blind. But they were really, really focused on people living fully integrated lives and just having extraordinary skills as people who are blind. I was just so impressed with them, and honestly I left thinking, can I come back and volunteer? Essentially it's like, well, when you learn some better Spanish, that will help.

Gabby

I love that. I love, this is really inspiring. I agree with Nazarene. This definitely makes me wanna someday do this walk and, you know, check these places out. So that leads me to my next question, which is: seeing ONCE's impressive operations firsthand, what practices or technologies do you think organizations and cities in the US should adopt to improve true inclusion for the blind community?

Sylvia

Well, what seemed to me obvious is that, especially in Spain, people were comfortable with people who are blind. And so I know that ONCE is very well known throughout Spain. And I think that people who are blind are respected there. And so there's clearly been this great public awareness piece that has happened there. And I think that has really empowered people who are blind. There's also seemingly a big focus on ensuring that people who are blind are actually working within the blindness sector, like, you know, in executive director, CEO roles. And I've always believed that that's a really key thing: making sure that people who are blind have the opportunity. 

When they have the skills and the experience, making sure they have those opportunities. And I saw that there. The technology really focused on ensuring people have the skills. And it's not enough to just introduce people to a skill. It's just really making sure people develop those skills, not putting a piece of technology in their hand and go, good luck. Or putting a cane in their hand and going, good luck.

Really creating those opportunities where people can really maximize those skills. And a big part of that is getting out of your comfort zone. I mean, I have always been visually impaired. And so I didn't use a white cane until I was like 30. And before that, I realized I was using all of those skills. I was using listening. I was using what was under my feet to navigate. But promoting that more.

And promoting a sincere understanding of that and really helping people get out of their comfort zones. And because it is scary. Like it was scary for me. And I do lots of things that are kind of scary, but I figure, well, if I mess up, I mess up, and I learn something. So yes, those are, I think, the key things that

And then the integration of organizations. I mean, ONCE partners with a lot of organizations. And I think the willingness to partner and and pr promote what other organizations are doing that leads to that an improved lifestyle for people is just you know, an amazing thing.

Gabby 

That's incredible, you know, 'cause you know, g getting out of your comfort zone and, you know, just kind of like letting people see the potential and understanding their potential that they can bring to a space in the world, right? That's really beautiful, and I love that.

Sylvia

House one thing that I will just add, which might be slightly controversial, but I sort of alluded to that they're preparing people who are blind better. Like people have better skills, for the most part. And I'm not saying that here or in other places people don't have skills, but that would be the truth. you know, when you only get

When you're not started from early, early on in life, about really learning that you can do things, that you have potential, that you can walk, that you can cross streets, that you can walk a Camino, that you can zip line, whatever it is, if you don't ever hear those things and then push yourself or have people who will push you to do all those things, it's a it can be very limiting for you.

And then you don't if you're not out there doing things, you're not developing skills. And I say that to myself as well. I mean, I can be just as afraid as anyone else. So mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gabby

No. No, but you're right. You know, I noticed that in Europe when I've been there. So it's it's definitely a very different way of kind of how the training is set up and how, you know, it's there's more conversation around that. So

Nasreen

Well, maybe our people should have a conversation with their people.

Gabby

Yeah. Exactly. We often talk about how losing sight doesn't mean a lack sorry, doesn't mean a lack of vision. Looking back at the entire journey from Port from Porto to Spain, how has this adventure reshaped your personal vision for your next chapter?

Sylvia

Well, I do think that the Camino has expanded my vision. It's helped me feel a little bit more confident about getting out of my comfort zone. It also did very much help me recognize the value of interdependence. And I've talked a lot about that interdependence concept over the past couple of years, but I could not have walked that without my husband.

And the way we communicated and the support that he provided absolutely could not have done it without him. So, recognizing that to me was a big deal. I went like, I'm gonna use my cane; it's gonna be great. And then three days in, I'm like, maybe we should switch to that tether. This cane is not working out. so

Recognizing that interdependence is a valid, valuable thing to have in life. I also realized that I really am and continue to be inspired by mentoring people and to helping people really recognize their own potential. I now also have this little travel bug now. Like, I can't wait for the next trip. I just returned from a Daring Sisters retreat. but like

Home going okay, what's next? What's next? Which I'm gonna tell y'all what's next. I wanna create adventure opportunities for people, and I'm starting to talk with people about that, but I'm planning a Camino walk for women next year, women who are blind, women who are sighted, women who are whatever, for women next year. To encourage people to dream beyond their fears. Because I think that's what I want to encourage myself to dream beyond my fears. Just put this little thing. I'm also starting my next book.

Nasreen

I love that Dream Beyond.

Gabby

Yay! my gosh. That's so exciting.

Sylvia

It's gonna be similar to my last one, but called Walking the Paths of Life.

Gabby

Love it. I think I just wanna say one note, you know, Sylvie, you've always been really good at being able to inspire people around you. You know, as long as I've known you, you've always given that very great, as you know, like, look, we can do it. Like there's nothing that can stop us. And I stand fully behind that idea that, you know, we can be self-advocates.

We can inspire each other, we can lift each other up. It doesn't have to be like, yes, we're going through these hard things, but as you said, everybody has some level of baggage that they're carrying through life, but it's just about how we come together. And I think you've always been really, really good at being able to do that. And I say that I think I said that in a couple of our podcast episodes, but it's true.

Sylvia

Thank you. Well, I'm just about I'm I'm really about let's let's all come together and really like you said let's let's push each other. I'm about let's push each other or pull each other or carry each other, whatever it is at that moment that someone needs. So yeah. So one final thing I want to say is vision is not about what our eyes can see. It's a believing that there's another mountain to climb, another person to encourage, and another dream worth pursuing.

Gabby

Well said.

Steph

Wow, what an incredible conversation. And can I just say, Sylvia, when you were talking about the pilgrims carrying their packs and about the ruggedness of the trail, it seemed to me that it's symbolic for life. Everyone is carrying something. And I think for folks that have done this particular pilgrimage, they get that, yes, and that's why they are so open to different people. 

We talk a lot about differences, but differences are the things that really color our world. Without differences, I think our world would be rather bland. Yes. But life is really about the struggles and the things that we're carrying, and I think because we are human And we tend to forget that people are carrying things.

Sylvia

And we're all on that same journey. I think that's what we forget. We all have the same, we have the same dreams, the same goals. We're all headed the same place. Recognize that. So next time I go, you can actually get your pack carried by a service. And that's what I'll be doing.

speaker-3 (35:39.372)

Hey, I'd be right there with you doing the same thing.

speaker-1 (35:42.37)

Same thing, yeah. I suffer. What are you for, thing?

Steph

I'd like to do it on my own the first time, yeah just for the experience, and I would intentionally, you know, pack light because doing the journey is an intentional act by itself. But yeah, I think if I did it a subsequent time, I would hire a service as well. Yes. Because it sounds hard. It sounds grueling.

Sylvia

And I do want I want to make sure people understand that because, you know, while I'm walking, everyone's texting me because they're watching my Instagram and they're like, we want to do it, we want to do it. I need all my friends to know that this is not a walk in the park, okay? This is hard because, you know, then I'm thinking they're gonna go do this, and they're gonna be like, We hate you. You're not our friend anymore because it's hard but magical, which is essentially what life is, right?

Steph

Right. And I think Sylvia, that your journey reminds us that exploring the world really isn't about how much sight that you have. It's about the vision to step out into the unknown. True inclusion means ensuring the world's most historic pathways are open and welcoming to everyone. 

I just wanna give a huge thank you to you for sharing your adventure with us, and to Nazarene and Gabby for guiding such an insightful conversation. If you, our listeners, would like to connect with Sylvia, we are going to put her contact information within the show notes. If today's episode inspired you, please take a moment to subscribe, leave us a review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 

I'll leave you with this. Belongingness entails an unwavering commitment to not simply tolerating and respecting difference, but to ensuring that all people are welcome and feel that they belong. john a. powell. Thank you so much. And until next time, stay full, stay beautiful, and keep moving forward.