{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3.945,"endTime":6.645,"body":"Hello and welcome to"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3.945,"endTime":6.645,"body":"Fiction Fans, a podcast where we"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":6.645,"endTime":8.595,"body":"read books and other words too."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":8.655,"endTime":9.285,"body":"I'm Lily"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":9.645,"endTime":13.005,"body":"And I am Sarah, and I'm so"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":9.645,"endTime":13.005,"body":"pleased to welcome cl Pirlo back on"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":13.005,"endTime":16.565,"body":"the podcast this time to talk about"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":13.005,"endTime":16.565,"body":"her new book, terms of Service."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":16.947,"endTime":17.727,"body":"Hi, everybody."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":17.984,"endTime":19.334,"body":"Nice to have you back."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":19.364,"endTime":20.384,"body":"Good to be back."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":20.711,"endTime":23.081,"body":"and cannot wait"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":20.711,"endTime":23.081,"body":"to talk about this book."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":23.291,"endTime":28.841,"body":"Sarah and I got on an hour early to"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":23.291,"endTime":28.841,"body":"get like most of our chaos out, so"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":28.841,"endTime":32.861,"body":"we could actually ask you questions"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":28.841,"endTime":32.861,"body":"and not just scream the whole time."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":33.431,"endTime":36.131,"body":"I, there's, there might"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":33.431,"endTime":36.131,"body":"still be a little bit of screaming."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":36.161,"endTime":36.911,"body":"Fair warning."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":36.971,"endTime":38.921,"body":"is, screaming is always welcome."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":38.921,"endTime":40.361,"body":"I'm never gonna say to screaming."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":41.081,"endTime":43.871,"body":"So before we get into that,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":41.081,"endTime":43.871,"body":"our quick introduction, what's"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":43.871,"endTime":45.521,"body":"something great that happened recently?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":46.571,"endTime":49.991,"body":"I finally moved to a new place."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":50.451,"endTime":54.381,"body":"I was previously living somewhere where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":50.451,"endTime":54.381,"body":"the ceiling was really sloped so I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":54.381,"endTime":57.081,"body":"could stand up in about 10% of my room."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":57.631,"endTime":60.301,"body":"And now I'm in somewhere that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":57.631,"endTime":60.301,"body":"has a normal ceiling where I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":60.301,"endTime":62.761,"body":"can stand up in 100% of my room."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":63.331,"endTime":65.491,"body":"So I'm very excited about that."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":66.331,"endTime":67.021,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":67.231,"endTime":71.431,"body":"Oh, moving is always like the worst"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":67.231,"endTime":71.431,"body":"until you're done, and then it feels so"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":71.431,"endTime":72.211,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":72.331,"endTime":76.501,"body":"Once you've unpacked the final boxes"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":72.331,"endTime":76.501,"body":"and have like a comfortable bed to sleep"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":76.501,"endTime":78.631,"body":"in, you're just like, oh, okay, cool."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":78.691,"endTime":79.921,"body":"We're, this is so much better."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":79.976,"endTime":80.266,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":80.401,"endTime":83.911,"body":"But, and, and while you're"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":80.401,"endTime":83.911,"body":"doing it, it's a nightmare."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":84.911,"endTime":85.331,"body":"Sarah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":85.946,"endTime":91.676,"body":"My good thing is that I was blessed"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":85.946,"endTime":91.676,"body":"once more by the pug distribution system."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":92.236,"endTime":95.506,"body":"So I have accidentally"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":92.236,"endTime":95.506,"body":"acquired a third pug."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":95.816,"endTime":96.956,"body":"Her name is Cookie."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":97.136,"endTime":101.396,"body":"She is eight months old and"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":97.136,"endTime":101.396,"body":"she and Dumpling spend the"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":101.396,"endTime":103.646,"body":"entire day play fighting."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":103.866,"endTime":104.886,"body":"That's all they do."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":105.036,"endTime":106.056,"body":"I am so tired."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":106.086,"endTime":106.806,"body":"Please send help."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":107.806,"endTime":110.116,"body":"But the thing is, if we add"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":107.806,"endTime":110.116,"body":"more Sarahs, then you'll need to"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":110.116,"endTime":112.156,"body":"add more pugs to even out the ratio."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":112.156,"endTime":114.286,"body":"And then it's just like a vicious cycle."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":114.406,"endTime":115.186,"body":"It's true."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":116.186,"endTime":119.726,"body":"It is like the bigger a house you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":116.186,"endTime":119.726,"body":"get, the more cats you can put in it,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":120.196,"endTime":120.616,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":120.716,"endTime":123.296,"body":"and then you have a lot of cats"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":120.716,"endTime":123.296,"body":"and you have to get a bigger house,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":123.416,"endTime":125.966,"body":"but then you have a bigger house"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":123.416,"endTime":125.966,"body":"and you can put more caps in it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":126.966,"endTime":127.456,"body":"exactly."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":128.506,"endTime":133.186,"body":"My good thing is that this week I"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":128.506,"endTime":133.186,"body":"beat my father at fantasy football."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":134.186,"endTime":134.936,"body":"Oh, hell yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":135.206,"endTime":136.186,"body":"Congratulations."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":137.186,"endTime":140.946,"body":"I am not super into football"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":137.186,"endTime":140.946,"body":"and he is very into fantasy"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":140.946,"endTime":145.686,"body":"football, so I have been needling"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":140.946,"endTime":145.686,"body":"him endlessly about it all week."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":146.571,"endTime":148.311,"body":"You beat him at his own game."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":148.356,"endTime":148.986,"body":"really did."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":149.106,"endTime":150.816,"body":"I think he's a little happy about it,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":150.816,"endTime":152.676,"body":"I never thought I would,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":150.816,"endTime":152.676,"body":"I'm gonna be honest."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":153.31,"endTime":154.69,"body":"What is everyone drinking tonight?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":154.87,"endTime":160.33,"body":"I have tea because tea features heavily"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":154.87,"endTime":160.33,"body":"in this book, although I am drinking"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":160.33,"endTime":161.92,"body":"iced tea 'cause it's warm today."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":162.4,"endTime":168.52,"body":"I am drinking a Monster Energy drink"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":162.4,"endTime":168.52,"body":"out of a very nice, reusable water bottle"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":169.0,"endTime":171.12,"body":"because I love reusable water bottles."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":171.12,"endTime":172.26,"body":"I don't know, get yourself one."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":172.29,"endTime":174.06,"body":"This isn't a sponsorship picked at one."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":174.15,"endTime":174.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":175.123,"endTime":177.133,"body":"Brand non-specific water bottle."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":177.673,"endTime":181.388,"body":"Yeah it, it has a brand, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":177.673,"endTime":181.388,"body":"not saying it because they don't pay me."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":181.528,"endTime":181.818,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":182.818,"endTime":187.878,"body":"I am drinking the finest"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":182.818,"endTime":187.878,"body":"of ASI boxed wines imported"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":187.878,"endTime":189.078,"body":"directly from the deep."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":190.078,"endTime":194.928,"body":"I thought about having some nice imported"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":190.078,"endTime":194.928,"body":"astro tea, but it is too hot here"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":194.928,"endTime":196.878,"body":"and I did not make iced tea in time."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":197.598,"endTime":198.858,"body":"Yeah, it's summer."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":199.308,"endTime":200.418,"body":"Still is summer."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":200.538,"endTime":200.928,"body":"yep."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":201.928,"endTime":204.538,"body":"And this is"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":201.928,"endTime":204.538,"body":"actually a book podcast."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":204.538,"endTime":206.578,"body":"So has anyone read anything Good lately?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":206.578,"endTime":210.418,"body":"Although the obvious answer is terms of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":206.578,"endTime":210.418,"body":"service, which we're about to talk about."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":210.895,"endTime":218.425,"body":"I recently finished  MJ Kuhn's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":210.895,"endTime":218.425,"body":"among thieves and it was very good."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":218.485,"endTime":221.075,"body":"I'm very looking forward"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":218.485,"endTime":221.075,"body":"to this equal go read it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":221.555,"endTime":221.825,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":221.825,"endTime":224.825,"body":"That has been on my TBR for"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":221.825,"endTime":224.825,"body":"an embarrassingly long time."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":224.975,"endTime":227.165,"body":"it, yes, it has been"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":224.975,"endTime":227.165,"body":"on the TBR for a long."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":227.195,"endTime":229.535,"body":"We really should just like"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":227.195,"endTime":229.535,"body":"make it a podcast book because"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":229.535,"endTime":230.585,"body":"then we know we'll read it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":230.645,"endTime":231.485,"body":"It's the only way."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":232.485,"endTime":234.105,"body":"List is endless."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":234.18,"endTime":234.6,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":235.6,"endTime":238.17,"body":"And there are only"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":235.6,"endTime":238.17,"body":"so many days in the year."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":238.17,"endTime":239.01,"body":"Tragically,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":240.01,"endTime":243.25,"body":"Yeah, we don't get a second"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":240.01,"endTime":243.25,"body":"year just for reading, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":243.55,"endTime":244.0,"body":"we should,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":244.96,"endTime":245.95,"body":"Yeah, we deserve it."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":246.16,"endTime":246.32,"body":"we do."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":247.32,"endTime":249.12,"body":"Or the first year"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":247.32,"endTime":249.12,"body":"could be for reading."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":249.3,"endTime":250.14,"body":"That would be fine too."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":251.01,"endTime":251.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":251.73,"endTime":252.57,"body":"I wouldn't mind."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":253.57,"endTime":255.67,"body":"Alright, so terms of service."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":256.67,"endTime":262.95,"body":"We struggled so much with how to"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":256.67,"endTime":262.95,"body":"phrase the genre of this book because"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":263.1,"endTime":266.86,"body":"some of it might be a spoiler, so."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":267.22,"endTime":271.84,"body":"I did have a number of  like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":267.22,"endTime":271.84,"body":"as an author, when you're about"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":271.84,"endTime":275.15,"body":"to publish a book, you get a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":271.84,"endTime":275.15,"body":"of like various editorial briefs."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":275.15,"endTime":280.54,"body":"Like, this is the, you know, blurb that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":275.15,"endTime":280.54,"body":"we're sending to X website that we're"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":280.54,"endTime":285.64,"body":"publishing an excerpt or a promotion on,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":280.54,"endTime":285.64,"body":"or, you know, this is like the marketing"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":285.64,"endTime":287.2,"body":"sheet we're giving out or whatever."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":287.68,"endTime":292.49,"body":"And there were a number of times where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":287.68,"endTime":292.49,"body":"it was like, this is an interesting way"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":292.49,"endTime":296.63,"body":"to phrase the genre, but I understand"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":292.49,"endTime":296.63,"body":"why we're phrasing it that way."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":297.02,"endTime":299.69,"body":"Please don't describe it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":297.02,"endTime":299.69,"body":"somewhere, some way else."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":299.75,"endTime":304.68,"body":"And also please remove this one word"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":299.75,"endTime":304.68,"body":"that you have in there that is a spoiler."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":304.68,"endTime":307.35,"body":"I know that that's a common"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":304.68,"endTime":307.35,"body":"genre, but remove it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":308.35,"endTime":311.345,"body":"I think we landed"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":308.35,"endTime":311.345,"body":"on technology, fae"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":312.075,"endTime":312.915,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":313.185,"endTime":315.975,"body":"I, I think I advertised"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":313.185,"endTime":315.975,"body":"it as like space fae or"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":316.11,"endTime":316.38,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":316.41,"endTime":316.83,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":316.86,"endTime":317.25,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":317.325,"endTime":318.075,"body":"you used the word"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":318.15,"endTime":321.7,"body":"I feel, I feel vindicated because I,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":321.835,"endTime":325.765,"body":"I use space fae because"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":321.835,"endTime":325.765,"body":"it's so obviously sci-fi ish."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":325.975,"endTime":330.265,"body":"So I just slap space onto things that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":325.975,"endTime":330.265,"body":"are kind of sci-fi because I think"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":330.265,"endTime":336.745,"body":"everyone's used to like space just"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":330.265,"endTime":336.745,"body":"being used as a general sci-fi prefix."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":337.315,"endTime":338.965,"body":"And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":337.315,"endTime":338.965,"body":"where I was coming from."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":338.965,"endTime":345.465,"body":"Like I at about maybe like 75"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":338.965,"endTime":345.465,"body":"pages in to the book texted"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":345.465,"endTime":347.375,"body":"Lily going, it's space fae."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":347.88,"endTime":348.12,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":349.12,"endTime":350.01,"body":"It's Spaceface."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":350.505,"endTime":355.755,"body":"Well, because, you know, I, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":350.505,"endTime":355.755,"body":"of like, star Wars, star Trek, Stargate."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":356.115,"endTime":359.565,"body":"People just kinda use Star as like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":356.115,"endTime":359.565,"body":"a preface for that kind of genre."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":359.805,"endTime":363.435,"body":"So oftentimes we'll just use"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":359.805,"endTime":363.435,"body":"space as a preface for anything"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":363.465,"endTime":369.195,"body":"that's sci-fi or specifically"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":363.465,"endTime":369.195,"body":"sci-fi that's not earth based."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":369.435,"endTime":372.795,"body":"Like, you know, if you have a sci-fi"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":369.435,"endTime":372.795,"body":"that's set on earth, people won't, if"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":372.795,"endTime":376.275,"body":"you have a sci-fi that's clearly not"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":372.795,"endTime":376.275,"body":"set on earth, no matter where it's set"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":376.635,"endTime":378.795,"body":"space is just kind of a common prefix."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":378.795,"endTime":382.425,"body":"So I just use that 'cause it's, it's easy."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":382.425,"endTime":382.485,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":383.79,"endTime":384.9,"body":"in marketing."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":385.59,"endTime":387.12,"body":"and aren't we all in space?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":387.18,"endTime":388.05,"body":"If you think about"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":388.05,"endTime":388.17,"body":"it,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":388.365,"endTime":389.145,"body":"We all are."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":389.205,"endTime":389.805,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":390.805,"endTime":392.125,"body":"There's no not space."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":392.23,"endTime":392.59,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":393.59,"endTime":395.09,"body":"Or if there is, that's a different book."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":395.555,"endTime":396.185,"body":"Yeah, that's true."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":396.185,"endTime":399.605,"body":"That is a very different book that I don't"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":396.185,"endTime":399.605,"body":"have the technical knowledge to write."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":399.605,"endTime":402.425,"body":"I would have to get a degree"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":399.605,"endTime":402.425,"body":"in like astrophysics first and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":402.485,"endTime":403.745,"body":"still wouldn't understand it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":404.745,"endTime":410.875,"body":"Speaking of, this book was, felt a"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":404.745,"endTime":410.875,"body":"little harder, sci-fi, if you will, than"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":410.905,"endTime":416.375,"body":"your first novel Bluebird, which was also"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":410.905,"endTime":416.375,"body":"sci-fi e adjacent and then of course,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":416.375,"endTime":418.145,"body":"Hunter's Gambit was a fantasy novel."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":418.693,"endTime":421.693,"body":"So, has your research process"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":418.693,"endTime":421.693,"body":"changed for this book at all?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":422.693,"endTime":429.294,"body":"Yes, I had to do a lot more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":422.693,"endTime":429.294,"body":"research, into various like God, I, I'm"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":429.294,"endTime":434.604,"body":"trying to avoid spoiling various types"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":429.294,"endTime":434.604,"body":"of like physics that I wouldn't get into."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":434.754,"endTime":437.464,"body":"I don't think it's a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":434.754,"endTime":437.464,"body":"spoiler to say that in."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":437.899,"endTime":439.339,"body":"There are two groups of fae."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":439.609,"endTime":443.629,"body":"One of them has various plant-based"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":439.609,"endTime":443.629,"body":"abilities, and the other has various"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":443.729,"endTime":445.679,"body":"like air and water based abilities."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":445.829,"endTime":450.756,"body":"So I did have to do a lot of research"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":445.829,"endTime":450.756,"body":"into, for example, food limitations."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":450.756,"endTime":452.496,"body":"If you're working exclusively."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":452.821,"endTime":459.077,"body":"With sort of space fantasy vegan,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":452.821,"endTime":459.077,"body":"I had to do various research into"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":459.137,"endTime":462.967,"body":"at what point does, for example,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":459.137,"endTime":462.967,"body":"like if you're working with air, at"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":462.967,"endTime":469.267,"body":"what point does it include like dust"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":462.967,"endTime":469.267,"body":"particles that aren't air that thus"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":469.327,"endTime":471.757,"body":"could not be part of this magic system."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":472.024,"endTime":475.054,"body":"so there was a lot of research"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":472.024,"endTime":475.054,"body":"I had to do in terms of what the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":475.054,"endTime":476.734,"body":"limitations of those abilities were."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":477.074,"endTime":482.894,"body":"There was a lot of research I had to do"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":477.074,"endTime":482.894,"body":"in terms of writing a self-contained unit."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":482.894,"endTime":487.454,"body":"So the bastion, which is the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":482.894,"endTime":487.454,"body":"setting is fully self-contained."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":487.974,"endTime":491.567,"body":"And so there was a lot of stuff"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":487.974,"endTime":491.567,"body":"where, I never mentioned it in the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":491.567,"endTime":496.961,"body":"book, but basically in terms of food,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":491.567,"endTime":496.961,"body":"Soylent green I didn't mention it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":496.961,"endTime":498.971,"body":"because, you know, we all kind of."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":499.681,"endTime":502.621,"body":"Kind all kind of know that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":499.681,"endTime":502.621,"body":"that's probably what was going"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":502.621,"endTime":504.211,"body":"on, at least to some degree."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":504.631,"endTime":508.221,"body":"But there was definitely an"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":504.631,"endTime":508.221,"body":"extent to which, I had to do a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":508.221,"endTime":512.211,"body":"lot of research into sort of like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":508.221,"endTime":512.211,"body":"how would air filtration work?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":512.721,"endTime":515.991,"body":"How would like clothing work?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":516.021,"endTime":519.621,"body":"'cause obviously, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":516.021,"endTime":519.621,"body":"probably either all recycled"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":519.621,"endTime":521.621,"body":"or all polyester or, you know."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":522.346,"endTime":526.466,"body":"Made of various other like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":522.346,"endTime":526.466,"body":"non-organic materials."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":527.076,"endTime":532.116,"body":"So especially at the beginning of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":527.076,"endTime":532.116,"body":"book one of the characters wears the same"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":532.116,"endTime":536.166,"body":"set of clothes for many, many days in a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":532.116,"endTime":536.166,"body":"row before she gets a change of clothes"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":536.166,"endTime":537.486,"body":"because it's kind of something that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":538.031,"endTime":540.011,"body":"Like, she's like, man, I'm kind of gross."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":540.026,"endTime":541.091,"body":"I, I need new clothes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":541.301,"endTime":543.641,"body":"But the clothes are kind of designed"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":541.301,"endTime":543.641,"body":"to be something you could wear for"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":543.641,"endTime":547.541,"body":"multiple days before you have to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":543.641,"endTime":547.541,"body":"change because you'd be really limited."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":548.027,"endTime":551.537,"body":"there was research I had to do"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":548.027,"endTime":551.537,"body":"that I actually, I got scolded for."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":551.757,"endTime":555.647,"body":"I initially put like concrete"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":551.757,"endTime":555.647,"body":"streets, like as, as I dimensional."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":555.677,"endTime":557.177,"body":"It's like, oh yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":555.677,"endTime":557.177,"body":"street was made of concrete."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":557.577,"endTime":561.947,"body":"And I was at a retreat taught by"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":557.577,"endTime":561.947,"body":"Mary Robin at at cowal and she was"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":561.967,"endTime":564.397,"body":"like, there would not be concrete."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":564.757,"endTime":565.837,"body":"Get that out."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":566.837,"endTime":569.297,"body":"No, not the materials being used here."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":569.327,"endTime":570.137,"body":"No concrete."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":570.137,"endTime":572.177,"body":"And I was like, yes, ma'am."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":572.177,"endTime":572.807,"body":"Understood."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":572.837,"endTime":573.647,"body":"No concrete."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":574.157,"endTime":579.077,"body":"So even, even at the very, like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":574.157,"endTime":579.077,"body":"late, late stages of editing the book,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":579.077,"endTime":582.347,"body":"there were still tech mistakes that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":579.077,"endTime":582.347,"body":"I made and I'm sure there are some"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":582.347,"endTime":583.907,"body":"tech mistakes that are still in there."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":584.227,"endTime":588.607,"body":"I am not a scientist"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":584.227,"endTime":588.607,"body":"and it probably shows."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":589.607,"endTime":592.312,"body":"There, there was enough"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":589.607,"endTime":592.312,"body":"in there that I also, not a"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":592.312,"endTime":594.172,"body":"scientist, was fully on board."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":594.817,"endTime":595.177,"body":"Hell, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":595.217,"endTime":595.507,"body":"same."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":596.747,"endTime":600.137,"body":"you, you mentioned the bastion,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":596.747,"endTime":600.137,"body":"which is the, the setting for this story."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":600.137,"endTime":603.227,"body":"We follow Lucia, Lucia, something"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":603.452,"endTime":605.437,"body":"I, I say it as lu, but,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":605.512,"endTime":605.782,"body":"Lucia."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":606.332,"endTime":607.772,"body":"I mean, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":606.332,"endTime":607.772,"body":"it's, it's written down."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":607.772,"endTime":611.162,"body":"I say Lua, but you could probably"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":607.772,"endTime":611.162,"body":"mispronounce it any other way you want."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":611.732,"endTime":615.632,"body":"You know, also, this isn't like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":611.732,"endTime":615.632,"body":"Space America, the pronunciation"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":615.632,"endTime":618.932,"body":"for various words is going"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":615.632,"endTime":618.932,"body":"to be different accordingly."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":619.482,"endTime":622.032,"body":"You know, I, I don't wanna be like, if"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":619.482,"endTime":622.032,"body":"you have a British accent and you're"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":622.032,"endTime":623.712,"body":"pronouncing these words, go to jail."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":624.222,"endTime":626.872,"body":"Because I mean, to be fair, a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":624.222,"endTime":626.872,"body":"of the British do deserve jail, but"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":626.872,"endTime":628.721,"body":"not for this pronunciation reasons."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":629.006,"endTime":633.176,"body":"except when they say taco instead of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":629.006,"endTime":633.176,"body":"taco, then they should go to jail."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":633.236,"endTime":635.976,"body":"That is that illegal."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":636.096,"endTime":636.516,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":637.516,"endTime":640.876,"body":"Luckily, there are no tacos in this"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":637.516,"endTime":640.876,"body":"book for this to run into that problem."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":640.906,"endTime":641.416,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":641.416,"endTime":643.366,"body":"That that does not come up as an issue."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":644.366,"endTime":647.646,"body":"So Luzi is a first responder."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":648.456,"endTime":653.046,"body":"Her job is, is to deal with sort of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":648.456,"endTime":653.046,"body":"the failing infrastructure of the"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":653.046,"endTime":657.419,"body":"bastion and try to prevent disaster or"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":653.046,"endTime":657.419,"body":"deal with it once it's happened and."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":657.902,"endTime":663.212,"body":"I thought it was so interesting how"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":657.902,"endTime":663.212,"body":"she, so she's a very anxious person."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":663.282,"endTime":664.962,"body":"That that's very clear right away."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":665.232,"endTime":668.142,"body":"messy, neurotic type of personality."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":669.142,"endTime":672.202,"body":"But you never described that"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":669.142,"endTime":672.202,"body":"clinically like it, it's never, and"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":672.202,"endTime":674.752,"body":"she has a diagnosed anxiety disorder."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":674.917,"endTime":679.967,"body":"No, no, I, I, I think that that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":674.917,"endTime":679.967,"body":"oftentimes does characters a disservice"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":679.967,"endTime":685.014,"body":"if you, particularly if you introduce"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":679.967,"endTime":685.014,"body":"a character very clinically because I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":685.014,"endTime":688.854,"body":"think that, you know, if you present"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":685.014,"endTime":688.854,"body":"a character with a diagnosis, readers"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":688.854,"endTime":692.334,"body":"are going to just jump to their"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":688.854,"endTime":692.334,"body":"stereotypes about that diagnosis."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":692.584,"endTime":694.624,"body":"So yeah, she's very anxious."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":694.784,"endTime":698.114,"body":"And in, in my own head, I viewed"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":694.784,"endTime":698.114,"body":"her as kind of neurotic, but I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":698.457,"endTime":701.187,"body":"don't think that she would probably"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":698.457,"endTime":701.187,"body":"be clinically described as that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":701.187,"endTime":703.407,"body":"And also it's space fae, I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":701.187,"endTime":703.407,"body":"don't think they have the same"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":703.407,"endTime":706.257,"body":"standards of like mental health"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":703.407,"endTime":706.257,"body":"and clinical diagnoses that we do."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":706.497,"endTime":710.757,"body":"And also, frankly, the DSM five"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":706.497,"endTime":710.757,"body":"has issues like, let's be honest,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":711.132,"endTime":713.262,"body":"We can hope they've"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":711.132,"endTime":713.262,"body":"evolved past that by this"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":713.547,"endTime":713.907,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":714.957,"endTime":719.291,"body":"I thought it was especially"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":714.957,"endTime":719.291,"body":"interesting how, I mean, so she's"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":719.291,"endTime":725.141,"body":"anxious and that is displayed"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":719.291,"endTime":725.141,"body":"both with very overblown things"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":725.201,"endTime":727.211,"body":"but also very reasonable things."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":727.651,"endTime":731.701,"body":"so we kind of get to see her dealing"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":727.651,"endTime":731.701,"body":"with these in very similar ways,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":731.701,"endTime":733.171,"body":"which I thought was fascinating."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":734.201,"endTime":738.761,"body":"Yeah, I I have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":734.201,"endTime":738.761,"body":"anxiety myself had I essentially"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":738.761,"endTime":742.301,"body":"describe it as I had my anxiety"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":738.761,"endTime":742.301,"body":"midlife crisis when I was 16."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":742.811,"endTime":748.971,"body":"So for me, I'm well acquainted with"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":742.811,"endTime":748.971,"body":"how you can have a worry that's very"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":748.971,"endTime":752.811,"body":"reasonable, like, I'm gonna miss the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":748.971,"endTime":752.811,"body":"train, and that can spike anxiety."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":752.811,"endTime":759.081,"body":"And then very large scale, abstract"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":752.811,"endTime":759.081,"body":"worries can also spark the same anxiety."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":759.081,"endTime":761.934,"body":"And, you know, the like little"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":759.081,"endTime":761.934,"body":"ape brain in the back of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":761.934,"endTime":763.704,"body":"your mind is like, these are."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":764.499,"endTime":767.019,"body":"Equally insane, equally dangerous."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":767.049,"endTime":771.129,"body":"Like your anxiety for missing the train"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":767.049,"endTime":771.129,"body":"is gonna be the same anxiety as like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":771.849,"endTime":773.919,"body":"what if your loved one is hit by a car?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":774.219,"endTime":778.959,"body":"Like your brain just fully goes into"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":774.219,"endTime":778.959,"body":"overdrive no matter how reasonable"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":778.959,"endTime":781.149,"body":"or unreasonable the anxiety is."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":781.449,"endTime":784.949,"body":"And that is definitely something"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":781.449,"endTime":784.949,"body":"that, happens to Lucia in that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":785.489,"endTime":788.579,"body":"there are a lot of very reasonable"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":785.489,"endTime":788.579,"body":"fears about the bastion."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":788.609,"endTime":791.459,"body":"There's a lot of real"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":788.609,"endTime":791.459,"body":"structural degradation."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":791.459,"endTime":793.619,"body":"There's a lot of like serious"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":791.459,"endTime":793.619,"body":"problems that can happen."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":793.619,"endTime":794.729,"body":"And she's dealt with a lot of them."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":795.059,"endTime":800.459,"body":"But the result of that is she kind of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":795.059,"endTime":800.459,"body":"sees those potential problems everywhere"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":800.459,"endTime":806.189,"body":"and as kind of happening constantly in,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":800.459,"endTime":806.189,"body":"in a way that they're, they're not quite,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":807.189,"endTime":809.979,"body":"But I mean, your hyper vigilance"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":807.189,"endTime":809.979,"body":"saves your life once, and then it's"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":809.979,"endTime":811.659,"body":"like, well, I'm justified forever now."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":812.659,"endTime":812.989,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":812.989,"endTime":813.709,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":813.839,"endTime":817.619,"body":"the one time it saves you, you're like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":813.839,"endTime":817.619,"body":"well, I guess I gotta rely on that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":817.619,"endTime":820.019,"body":"constantly, forever going forward."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":821.019,"endTime":824.854,"body":"One other thing about Lucia"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":821.019,"endTime":824.854,"body":"that I found really interesting and."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":825.854,"endTime":831.394,"body":"I feel like I noticed it more partially"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":825.854,"endTime":831.394,"body":"because Lily and I had had a discussion"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":831.394,"endTime":836.044,"body":"about kind of the opposite of this in"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":831.394,"endTime":836.044,"body":"one of the previous books that we covered"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":836.374,"endTime":842.224,"body":"was Lucia's, confidence and insistence"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":836.374,"endTime":842.224,"body":"that she is in fact just like the"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":842.224,"endTime":844.774,"body":"other girls, like she is not special."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":845.024,"endTime":849.854,"body":"And it was so refreshing to see that in"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":845.024,"endTime":849.854,"body":"a character because I feel like that is"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":849.974,"endTime":853.584,"body":"counter to what we see very frequently."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":854.584,"endTime":863.194,"body":"Yeah, I, I don't like the n log"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":854.584,"endTime":863.194,"body":"movement attitude, shall we say, but, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":863.194,"endTime":867.464,"body":"know, I think it kind of comes back to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":863.194,"endTime":867.464,"body":"Lizzie's like anxieties in her worries."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":867.494,"endTime":871.104,"body":"She's very aware that people are"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":867.494,"endTime":871.104,"body":"statistics that, you know, even if there's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":871.104,"endTime":875.514,"body":"only like a 10% chance something could"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":871.104,"endTime":875.514,"body":"happen to you, you are a statistic."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":875.514,"endTime":877.254,"body":"You could be part of that 10%."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":877.864,"endTime":881.554,"body":"So she doesn't view herself as any"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":877.864,"endTime":881.554,"body":"different from anybody else because"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":881.554,"endTime":885.004,"body":"in the back of her head  she views"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":881.554,"endTime":885.004,"body":"people as statistics, even as she"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":885.004,"endTime":887.374,"body":"views them all as unique and important."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":887.974,"endTime":893.164,"body":"She does not place certain"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":887.974,"endTime":893.164,"body":"people higher than others."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":893.374,"endTime":896.674,"body":"I mean, obviously, you know, she loves her"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":893.374,"endTime":896.674,"body":"family, you know, all that type of stuff."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":896.854,"endTime":901.354,"body":"But there's not an extent to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":896.854,"endTime":901.354,"body":"which she weighs her life more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":901.354,"endTime":904.204,"body":"heavily than she would weigh the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":901.354,"endTime":904.204,"body":"life of like a random stranger."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":905.204,"endTime":907.499,"body":"And she was so strong"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":905.204,"endTime":907.499,"body":"in her principles too."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":907.559,"endTime":911.369,"body":"Some of the other characters try to,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":907.559,"endTime":911.369,"body":"to trip her up or catch her in a,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":911.369,"endTime":914.064,"body":"a logic problem like, well, what if"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":911.369,"endTime":914.064,"body":"killing one person would save a hundred?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":914.774,"endTime":916.364,"body":"And she just says, that's stupid."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":916.424,"endTime":918.834,"body":"No, which was excellent."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":919.834,"endTime":923.344,"body":"Yeah, there, there's there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":919.834,"endTime":923.344,"body":"of internet debates about like, oh, well,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":923.524,"endTime":927.784,"body":"like what if Batman just started like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":923.524,"endTime":927.784,"body":"murdering people all the time, and surely"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":927.784,"endTime":930.034,"body":"that would fix problems or like, whatever."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":930.034,"endTime":933.394,"body":"And you know, you see a lot of internet"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":930.034,"endTime":933.394,"body":"debates about like, oh, well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":933.394,"endTime":937.744,"body":"if Batman kills 10 people, then like, this"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":933.394,"endTime":937.744,"body":"is, and it's like, no, no, no, no, no."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":938.074,"endTime":943.894,"body":"You're, you're getting into a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":938.074,"endTime":943.894,"body":"really insane type of discussion."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":944.224,"endTime":947.764,"body":"And so Lu's whole mentality"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":944.224,"endTime":947.764,"body":"is just like, absolutely not."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":948.154,"endTime":951.154,"body":"I'm not doing those"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":948.154,"endTime":951.154,"body":"bullshit hypotheticals."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":951.664,"endTime":954.994,"body":"Human lives are human lives, end of story."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":955.994,"endTime":958.034,"body":"This isn't like a little logic puzzle,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":958.794,"endTime":959.084,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":959.474,"endTime":960.614,"body":"not how this works."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":961.614,"endTime":966.544,"body":"So going back to what you said"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":961.614,"endTime":966.544,"body":"about the Bastion earlier, something"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":966.544,"endTime":968.882,"body":"that I. Thought was fascinating."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":968.947,"endTime":974.582,"body":"I, I guess I'm trained to expect dystopias"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":968.947,"endTime":974.582,"body":"when you get future sci-fi societies."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":975.302,"endTime":976.802,"body":"Yes, those are very common."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":977.802,"endTime":980.202,"body":"We love them, but they are"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":977.802,"endTime":980.202,"body":"definitely very common."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":980.592,"endTime":984.162,"body":"And it did not seem, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":980.592,"endTime":984.162,"body":"we don't see a ton of the inner"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":984.162,"endTime":988.662,"body":"political system of the Office of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":984.162,"endTime":988.662,"body":"Administration, but it seemed overall"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":988.662,"endTime":991.812,"body":"that they're very concerned with"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":988.662,"endTime":991.812,"body":"sustainability because they have to"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":991.812,"endTime":994.032,"body":"be, to keep, you know, society running."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":994.412,"endTime":997.972,"body":"And they seemed fairly reasonable,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":994.412,"endTime":997.972,"body":"at least from the bits that we saw."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":998.362,"endTime":1001.712,"body":"And that was also very refreshing"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":998.362,"endTime":1001.712,"body":"to read a book where, I don't"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1001.712,"endTime":1004.412,"body":"know, the, the machine isn't"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1001.712,"endTime":1004.412,"body":"trying to keep everyone down."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1005.412,"endTime":1010.272,"body":"Yeah, when I was conceiving of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1005.412,"endTime":1010.272,"body":"how like the bastion worked politically"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1010.322,"endTime":1014.242,"body":"within like the, the human sections I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1010.322,"endTime":1014.242,"body":"guess, which is most of it, it there"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1014.242,"endTime":1019.252,"body":"was sort of this view of it as kind"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1014.242,"endTime":1019.252,"body":"of like, sort of star trekky, but"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1019.252,"endTime":1024.532,"body":"like the, the ideal of Star Trek very,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1019.252,"endTime":1024.532,"body":"like, we don't really have money."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1024.742,"endTime":1029.002,"body":"We don't really have like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1024.742,"endTime":1029.002,"body":"class stratification."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1029.495,"endTime":1033.645,"body":"everything is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1029.495,"endTime":1033.645,"body":"practical kind of by necessity."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1034.125,"endTime":1036.695,"body":"And like, for example,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1034.125,"endTime":1036.695,"body":"there's a bit where."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1037.385,"endTime":1044.285,"body":"Lucia mentions that, you know, she"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1037.385,"endTime":1044.285,"body":"lives in a, like one unit house because"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1044.285,"endTime":1049.205,"body":"she is a one person and she would"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1044.285,"endTime":1049.205,"body":"be assigned like a different house."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1049.305,"endTime":1051.705,"body":"If she got like a partner and had"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1049.305,"endTime":1051.705,"body":"kids or whatever, she would be like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1051.915,"endTime":1053.685,"body":"assigned to a different housing unit."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1054.135,"endTime":1059.069,"body":"So it would be solely based on, there"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1054.135,"endTime":1059.069,"body":"are three people in this family unit,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1059.219,"endTime":1061.139,"body":"thus you need X amount of space."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1061.139,"endTime":1063.029,"body":"Thus he will be in this building."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1063.319,"endTime":1068.929,"body":"so there there's kind of that intense"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1063.319,"endTime":1068.929,"body":"practicality and that sort of sense"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1068.929,"endTime":1073.305,"body":"of, Like viewing things is sort of,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1068.929,"endTime":1073.305,"body":"everything is a resource, right?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1073.875,"endTime":1078.495,"body":"I think, I think in our current"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1073.875,"endTime":1078.495,"body":"situation, we tend to view things that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1078.495,"endTime":1082.335,"body":"are resources as somehow different."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1082.365,"endTime":1084.615,"body":"Like we all know food's a resource, right?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1084.915,"endTime":1090.315,"body":"But for example, there's literally a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1084.915,"endTime":1090.315,"body":"limited amount of helium in the world,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1090.825,"endTime":1094.245,"body":"but everyone's putting it in balloons"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1090.825,"endTime":1094.245,"body":"anyway and like kind of wasting it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1094.275,"endTime":1095.745,"body":"'cause you wanna like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1094.275,"endTime":1095.745,"body":"make your voice high."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1096.132,"endTime":1099.672,"body":"So it's not something we view"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1096.132,"endTime":1099.672,"body":"as a resource because it's not"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1099.672,"endTime":1102.912,"body":"something that we view is scarce."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1103.182,"endTime":1107.382,"body":"So when you live in a place where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1103.182,"endTime":1107.382,"body":"literally every single thing is"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1107.382,"endTime":1111.402,"body":"scarce and is viewed as a resource,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1107.382,"endTime":1111.402,"body":"there is definitely a sort of almost"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1111.402,"endTime":1116.974,"body":"brutalism to it in that it's the bare"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1111.402,"endTime":1116.974,"body":"bones of practicality by necessity."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1117.974,"endTime":1123.164,"body":"Which is very different from the"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1117.974,"endTime":1123.164,"body":"experiences she has after she meets the"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1123.164,"endTime":1126.039,"body":"Astro, who are, as we said, the space Fae."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1126.629,"endTime":1127.439,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1128.369,"endTime":1131.549,"body":"And they are throwing all the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1128.369,"endTime":1131.549,"body":"kinds of parties you'd expect."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1132.329,"endTime":1132.549,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1132.549,"endTime":1132.969,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1133.359,"endTime":1137.229,"body":"yeah, it, it was the, the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1133.359,"endTime":1137.229,"body":"switch from sort of restriction to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1137.229,"endTime":1144.009,"body":"indulgence and Lucy's, I mean, she's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1137.229,"endTime":1144.009,"body":"not very judgmental, but she's a little"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1144.009,"endTime":1148.649,"body":"judgmental about it in sort of the, the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1144.009,"endTime":1148.649,"body":"way that she doesn't really understand"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1148.649,"endTime":1151.319,"body":"it, like it's so foreign to her."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1151.779,"endTime":1156.039,"body":"Sort of like the wild partying"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1151.779,"endTime":1156.039,"body":"and viewing things in abundance."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1156.469,"endTime":1159.649,"body":"there was a lot of stuff in the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1156.469,"endTime":1159.649,"body":"back of my head about like, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1159.649,"endTime":1162.949,"body":"know, types of Fae tropes that you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1159.649,"endTime":1162.949,"body":"see a lot when I was writing this."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1163.309,"endTime":1166.799,"body":"And you know, one of the tropes is like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1163.309,"endTime":1166.799,"body":"oh, you can't eat the food with a Fae"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1166.849,"endTime":1168.409,"body":"or else you're stuck there forever."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1168.469,"endTime":1172.762,"body":"And here it's like, no, it's not like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1168.469,"endTime":1172.762,"body":"poison or anything, or like enchanted."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1172.762,"endTime":1177.322,"body":"It's just really good if you spend"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1172.762,"endTime":1177.322,"body":"your life eating like protein bars"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1177.592,"endTime":1181.402,"body":"and then somebody's like, Hey man, do"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1177.592,"endTime":1181.402,"body":"you want this like fresh apple tart?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1181.762,"endTime":1184.342,"body":"You're gonna be like, I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1181.762,"endTime":1184.342,"body":"can't, how do I go back?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1184.362,"endTime":1184.782,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1185.782,"endTime":1190.562,"body":"So it, it, it was kind of those"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1185.782,"endTime":1190.562,"body":"sorts of mythology elements that ended"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1190.562,"endTime":1193.092,"body":"up informing a lot of how the astro work."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1193.572,"endTime":1198.782,"body":"So talking about these kinds"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1193.572,"endTime":1198.782,"body":"of Fae tropes it reminded us a little"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1198.782,"endTime":1202.992,"body":"bit of the hunter's gambit where"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1198.782,"endTime":1202.992,"body":"you kind of subvert classic vampire"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1202.992,"endTime":1207.102,"body":"tropes in, in the sense that you"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1202.992,"endTime":1207.102,"body":"take kind of like a step to the left."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1207.162,"endTime":1210.132,"body":"Like they're still recognizable"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1207.162,"endTime":1210.132,"body":"as the trope, but you're just"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1210.132,"endTime":1211.302,"body":"playing with it a little bit."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1211.582,"endTime":1215.682,"body":"And you definitely do that with Fae tropes"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1211.582,"endTime":1215.682,"body":"as, as you've talked a little bit about."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1215.962,"endTime":1219.082,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1215.962,"endTime":1219.082,"body":"more, although this might end up"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1219.082,"endTime":1223.372,"body":"being sort of spoilery, so maybe"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1219.082,"endTime":1223.372,"body":"in a, in a nons, spoilery way."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1224.352,"endTime":1225.192,"body":"I will be very vague."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1225.382,"endTime":1225.892,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1226.442,"endTime":1230.122,"body":"can you talk a little bit more about some"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1226.442,"endTime":1230.122,"body":"of the Fae tropes that you play with?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1231.007,"endTime":1231.877,"body":"Yeah, sure."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1231.877,"endTime":1236.037,"body":"So, kind of the main one that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1231.877,"endTime":1236.037,"body":"comes up is the idea of like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1236.037,"endTime":1237.957,"body":"don't tell the fig your real name."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1238.457,"endTime":1240.407,"body":"That comes up right at the start."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1241.017,"endTime":1245.482,"body":"Obviously I deal with, you know, don't eat"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1241.017,"endTime":1245.482,"body":"food of the fig. There's also kind of a,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1246.022,"endTime":1253.452,"body":"there's a lot of like verbal contracts and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1246.022,"endTime":1253.452,"body":"other sort of legal general like oh gosh."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1253.452,"endTime":1255.702,"body":"I'm like, I'm struggling"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1253.452,"endTime":1255.702,"body":"to avoid spoilers."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1255.792,"endTime":1258.432,"body":"Yeah, this is, this"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1255.792,"endTime":1258.432,"body":"is a hard question actually."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1258.942,"endTime":1261.992,"body":"I know there's, there's, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1258.942,"endTime":1261.992,"body":"there's a lot of verbal contracts."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1261.992,"endTime":1266.622,"body":"There's a lot of like, legal ease a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1261.992,"endTime":1266.622,"body":"of stuff like that because you do see in"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1266.872,"endTime":1271.922,"body":"Fae mythology a lot of kind of like, oh,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1266.872,"endTime":1271.922,"body":"when you bargain with the Fae, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1271.922,"endTime":1274.562,"body":"you never get exactly what you expect."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1274.902,"endTime":1278.172,"body":"You know, it's based on like what's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1274.902,"endTime":1278.172,"body":"said literally rather than what's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1278.172,"endTime":1280.762,"body":"said figuratively that kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1280.762,"endTime":1282.352,"body":"You see a lot in mythology."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1282.352,"endTime":1287.292,"body":"So here there's a lot of a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1282.352,"endTime":1287.292,"body":"of contracts related stuff."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1287.322,"endTime":1289.002,"body":"I mean, it's literally"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1287.322,"endTime":1289.002,"body":"called terms of service."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1289.122,"endTime":1292.302,"body":"And I did that because no one"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1289.122,"endTime":1292.302,"body":"ever reads the terms of service."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1292.722,"endTime":1296.112,"body":"And this isn't a spoiler, this is like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1292.722,"endTime":1296.112,"body":"chapter two or three or something."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1296.552,"endTime":1301.602,"body":"When Lucia has to deal with her contract,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1296.552,"endTime":1301.602,"body":"she kind of spaces out 'cause she's like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1301.602,"endTime":1303.042,"body":"what the hell is all this legal shit?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1303.372,"endTime":1307.812,"body":"So she doesn't read the terms of service"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1303.372,"endTime":1307.812,"body":"because nobody reads the terms of service."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1308.812,"endTime":1312.052,"body":"I mean, she's understandably"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1308.812,"endTime":1312.052,"body":"overwhelmed by what's going on."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1312.052,"endTime":1313.727,"body":"Like, so understandable."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1314.727,"endTime":1314.997,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1314.997,"endTime":1319.197,"body":"It's really understandable why she's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1314.997,"endTime":1319.197,"body":"like zoning out and like, like, what"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1319.197,"endTime":1320.517,"body":"was that, what are they talking about?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1320.517,"endTime":1323.707,"body":"Hold on a sec. But that was definitely"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1320.517,"endTime":1323.707,"body":"one of the reasons why I called it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1323.797,"endTime":1327.187,"body":"terms of service is once I, once I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1323.797,"endTime":1327.187,"body":"realized that part of the, the plot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1327.187,"endTime":1331.177,"body":"was that she doesn't know the terms"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1327.187,"endTime":1331.177,"body":"of her contract exactly because she"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1331.597,"endTime":1332.887,"body":"didn't read the terms of service."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1332.887,"endTime":1335.137,"body":"I was like, well, I gotta call it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1332.887,"endTime":1335.137,"body":"terms of service because nobody"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1335.137,"endTime":1336.547,"body":"reads the terms of service."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1337.447,"endTime":1338.347,"body":"Nobody reads them."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1338.492,"endTime":1339.877,"body":"Immediately relatable."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1340.717,"endTime":1341.647,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1342.037,"endTime":1346.477,"body":"if she had asked afterwards to"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1342.037,"endTime":1346.477,"body":"read it over, would they have let her,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1347.227,"endTime":1348.577,"body":"That's a good question."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1349.037,"endTime":1351.302,"body":"Oh God, I can't answer"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1349.037,"endTime":1351.302,"body":"that without spoiling"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1351.357,"endTime":1352.442,"body":"Okay, we'll ask again."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1352.442,"endTime":1353.432,"body":"We'll ask again in a minute."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1354.362,"endTime":1355.202,"body":"Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1355.562,"endTime":1359.222,"body":"There are ways you can"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1355.562,"endTime":1359.222,"body":"access your contract."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1360.222,"endTime":1361.782,"body":"However, I."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1362.782,"endTime":1363.082,"body":"Spoiler."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1363.082,"endTime":1364.042,"body":"Spoiler, spoiler."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1364.152,"endTime":1364.372,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1365.452,"endTime":1370.312,"body":"It was fascinating to me"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1365.452,"endTime":1370.312,"body":"how the astro spoke very casually."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1370.642,"endTime":1374.632,"body":"There were a lot of like double to be"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1370.642,"endTime":1374.632,"body":"verbs and they used ain't quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1374.942,"endTime":1379.082,"body":"which felt very different from, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1374.942,"endTime":1379.082,"body":"the, the queen was very, you know,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1379.172,"endTime":1381.992,"body":"regal and used antiquated language."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1382.442,"endTime":1384.782,"body":"And so that was sort of that"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1382.442,"endTime":1384.782,"body":"contrast between how, what you"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1384.782,"endTime":1388.322,"body":"expect a fairy to talk versus"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1384.782,"endTime":1388.322,"body":"how most of them were speaking."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1389.322,"endTime":1396.012,"body":"Yeah, I, when I created sort of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1389.322,"endTime":1396.012,"body":"two Fae realms, I knew that there were a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1396.012,"endTime":1403.812,"body":"lot of ways in which I wanted, queen stuff"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1396.012,"endTime":1403.812,"body":"and king Airy to stand out as old and,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1403.812,"endTime":1407.802,"body":"you know, very, like the oldest and wisest"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1403.812,"endTime":1407.802,"body":"of their kind, et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1408.062,"endTime":1412.292,"body":"and one of the things that I ended"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1408.062,"endTime":1412.292,"body":"up settling on was giving them much"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1412.292,"endTime":1414.242,"body":"more antiquated forms of language."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1414.732,"endTime":1420.522,"body":"Sef is more floral Aries a little more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1414.732,"endTime":1420.522,"body":"brutal, but they both do not use slang."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1420.812,"endTime":1425.912,"body":"You know, a lot of the other astro, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1420.812,"endTime":1425.912,"body":"know, it's aint It's y'all, it's in it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1426.302,"endTime":1428.342,"body":"It's, uh, a lot of stuff like that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1428.452,"endTime":1432.529,"body":"And, it felt like a, a good"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1428.452,"endTime":1432.529,"body":"character beat to exclude all"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1432.529,"endTime":1434.545,"body":"of that from, the Canan Queens."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1434.94,"endTime":1437.31,"body":"General syntax and general vocabulary."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1438.31,"endTime":1438.91,"body":"I mean, they're old."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1438.91,"endTime":1439.99,"body":"They gotta sound old, right?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1440.68,"endTime":1443.765,"body":"It others, them, they're even"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1440.68,"endTime":1443.765,"body":"more othered than just being fairy."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1443.765,"endTime":1443.825,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1444.825,"endTime":1445.305,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1445.365,"endTime":1449.265,"body":"And, and one of the other reasons"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1445.365,"endTime":1449.265,"body":"I did it is that there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1449.265,"endTime":1456.405,"body":"of elements where I wanted Lucia"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1449.265,"endTime":1456.405,"body":"to seem kind of like a version of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1456.405,"endTime":1460.215,"body":"what Sef might once have been like."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1460.905,"endTime":1468.535,"body":"A lot of Lusia you can see, like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1460.905,"endTime":1468.535,"body":"if Lucia had gone down the same"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1468.535,"endTime":1472.525,"body":"series of paths as Sef, she could"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1468.535,"endTime":1472.525,"body":"have ended up in the same place."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1472.855,"endTime":1475.705,"body":"And Luzi also does not use much slang."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1476.275,"endTime":1479.395,"body":"She doesn't use a ton of casual phrases."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1479.545,"endTime":1481.945,"body":"She's generally a lot more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1479.545,"endTime":1481.945,"body":"precise in her speech."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1482.445,"endTime":1485.115,"body":"So I wanted that mirror as well."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1486.115,"endTime":1486.865,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1487.865,"endTime":1490.415,"body":"Well, we've clearly run up"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1487.865,"endTime":1490.415,"body":"against the spoiler wall,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1490.935,"endTime":1493.25,"body":"I wanna talk about spoilers."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1493.625,"endTime":1494.825,"body":"it's a big spoiler."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1495.825,"endTime":1499.545,"body":"so before we keep going"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1495.825,"endTime":1499.545,"body":"and dive into that part, Sarah,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1499.545,"endTime":1500.25,"body":"who should read this book?"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1500.94,"endTime":1502.19,"body":"I mean, space Fae."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1503.1,"endTime":1507.3,"body":"Not, not if you, if you are a space"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1503.1,"endTime":1507.3,"body":"Fae, you should read this book too."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1507.33,"endTime":1513.495,"body":"But if you like the concept of a"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1507.33,"endTime":1513.495,"body":"sci-fi version of the Fae that does"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1513.495,"endTime":1517.365,"body":"something fresh and new, both from a"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1513.495,"endTime":1517.365,"body":"mythology perspective, but also from"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1517.365,"endTime":1521.215,"body":"a, like a romantasy perspective I think"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1517.365,"endTime":1521.215,"body":"this is gonna be a good book for you."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1521.605,"endTime":1525.595,"body":"And if you just like a survival"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1521.605,"endTime":1525.595,"body":"sci-fi adventure set in a rundown"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1525.595,"endTime":1527.965,"body":"megalopolis, like this is gonna be great."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1528.325,"endTime":1530.155,"body":"You'll have a, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1528.325,"endTime":1530.155,"body":"a good time with this book."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1531.155,"endTime":1535.32,"body":"I just a note though,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1531.155,"endTime":1535.32,"body":"not that this book is romantasy,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1536.1,"endTime":1541.71,"body":"but if you've read a lot of Fae romantasy"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1536.1,"endTime":1541.71,"body":"and you're like, I'm looking for not this"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1541.86,"endTime":1543.93,"body":"for the 5000th time, then you'll like"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1544.02,"endTime":1547.56,"body":"yeah, this, this book is, this"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1544.02,"endTime":1547.56,"body":"book is not romantic, but romantic"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1547.71,"endTime":1549.78,"body":"also tends to play with Fae tropes."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1550.11,"endTime":1551.88,"body":"And this does that in a different way."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1552.585,"endTime":1552.825,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1552.825,"endTime":1556.65,"body":"This, this is not like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1552.825,"endTime":1556.65,"body":"no hate to Sarah at jma."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1556.935,"endTime":1557.805,"body":"This is not that"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1557.855,"endTime":1558.365,"body":"and I,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1558.5,"endTime":1561.254,"body":"completely different"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1558.5,"endTime":1561.254,"body":"flavor of of like mythology, of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1561.254,"endTime":1563.534,"body":"Fae, of fairy, of all of that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1563.534,"endTime":1567.544,"body":"It's completely different,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1563.534,"endTime":1567.544,"body":"slightly to the left in space."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1567.844,"endTime":1569.794,"body":"So if you're ready for"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1567.844,"endTime":1569.794,"body":"that, if you're like, I have"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1569.794,"endTime":1573.364,"body":"read 10,000 romantic books this"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1569.794,"endTime":1573.364,"body":"year, I need something different."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1574.364,"endTime":1575.814,"body":"but I still want it to be Fae."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1575.999,"endTime":1576.359,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1576.779,"endTime":1577.199,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1577.319,"endTime":1580.319,"body":"If you still want some of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1577.319,"endTime":1580.319,"body":"it, I, but you don't want."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1580.54,"endTime":1586.85,"body":"the vibes of romantic, but you still want"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1580.54,"endTime":1586.85,"body":"a little bit of the elements of Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1586.85,"endTime":1587.63,"body":"The fairy mythology."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1587.63,"endTime":1587.9,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1587.9,"endTime":1589.16,"body":"Then this, this might be the book for you?"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1593.437,"endTime":1596.877,"body":"This episode of Fiction Fans"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1593.437,"endTime":1596.877,"body":"is brought to you by Fiction Fans."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1597.507,"endTime":1598.327,"body":"That's us!"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1598.387,"endTime":1601.987,"body":"We really appreciate our patrons,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1598.387,"endTime":1601.987,"body":"because otherwise we fund this"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1602.017,"endTime":1604.137,"body":"podcast entirely ourselves."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1604.667,"endTime":1607.847,"body":"Patrons can find weekly"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1604.667,"endTime":1607.847,"body":"bonus content, monthly exclusive"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1607.867,"endTime":1611.727,"body":"episodes, and they have free access"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1607.867,"endTime":1611.727,"body":"to our biannual zine, Solstitia."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1612.357,"endTime":1614.997,"body":"You can find all of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1612.357,"endTime":1614.997,"body":"that and more at patreon."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1615.027,"endTime":1616.997,"body":"com slash fictionfanspod."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1617.307,"endTime":1618.657,"body":"Thank you for all of your support."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1619.267,"endTime":1622.067,"body":"The remainder of this"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1619.267,"endTime":1622.067,"body":"episode contains spoilers."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1626.971,"endTime":1633.991,"body":"So speaking of like romantic tropes and"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1626.971,"endTime":1633.991,"body":"Sarah J. Moss but general romantic too."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1634.471,"endTime":1638.761,"body":"I didn't think you would do this"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1634.471,"endTime":1638.761,"body":"to me, but I was so worried that"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1638.811,"endTime":1642.231,"body":"li Sander would turn out to be the"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1638.811,"endTime":1642.231,"body":"asshole trainer, love, interest,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1642.651,"endTime":1642.861,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1643.676,"endTime":1647.451,"body":"and, and not just,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1643.676,"endTime":1647.451,"body":"not just stay an asshole."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1647.481,"endTime":1649.191,"body":"And I was so glad."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1650.046,"endTime":1652.836,"body":"That I can say this"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1650.046,"endTime":1652.836,"body":"with absolute certainty."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1653.406,"endTime":1658.596,"body":"At literally no point in the entire"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1653.406,"endTime":1658.596,"body":"process of conceiving writing,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1658.656,"endTime":1662.586,"body":"editing, and selling this book, has"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1658.656,"endTime":1662.586,"body":"that ever once occurred to me as a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1662.586,"endTime":1669.486,"body":"possibility until the moment you said"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1662.586,"endTime":1669.486,"body":"it that never even vaguely came up."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1669.666,"endTime":1672.756,"body":"I, I didn't, I didn't think he"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1669.666,"endTime":1672.756,"body":"would do that to me, but like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1672.756,"endTime":1678.096,"body":"that's such a trope in like in, in these"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1672.756,"endTime":1678.096,"body":"kinds of books or in the romantic kind"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1678.096,"endTime":1680.796,"body":"of books that I was just, I was worried."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1681.046,"endTime":1682.156,"body":"I was concerned."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1682.696,"endTime":1682.876,"body":"no."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1682.876,"endTime":1688.936,"body":"Now that you mention it, I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1682.876,"endTime":1688.936,"body":"in hindsight, I'm like, that makes"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1689.776,"endTime":1692.996,"body":"sense as like a, a thing that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1689.776,"endTime":1692.996,"body":"could pop up 'cause it is a trope."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1693.016,"endTime":1695.656,"body":"But that literally at no"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1693.016,"endTime":1695.656,"body":"point ever occurred to me."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1695.656,"endTime":1697.306,"body":"It never popped into my brain."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1698.306,"endTime":1704.756,"body":"It is interesting how Fae mythology"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1698.306,"endTime":1704.756,"body":"and fairies are at this current cultural"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1704.756,"endTime":1708.176,"body":"zeitgeist so synonymous with romantic."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1708.846,"endTime":1710.606,"body":"Like They are one in the same right now."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1710.666,"endTime":1715.886,"body":"Not that they are throughout all of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1710.666,"endTime":1715.886,"body":"time, but it's just, yeah, you can't,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1715.946,"endTime":1720.741,"body":"you can't like totally get that out of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1715.946,"endTime":1720.741,"body":"your head when you're reading it, but."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1720.836,"endTime":1724.196,"body":"But also like the, the asshole"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1720.836,"endTime":1724.196,"body":"trainer who turns into a love interest"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1724.196,"endTime":1726.686,"body":"is not necessarily a Fae romantic"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1727.526,"endTime":1728.726,"body":"thing specifically."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1728.726,"endTime":1731.156,"body":"Like you see that in"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1728.726,"endTime":1731.156,"body":"Fourth Wing, for example."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1731.516,"endTime":1733.076,"body":"A common like romance"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1733.166,"endTime":1733.886,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1733.946,"endTime":1734.576,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1735.716,"endTime":1735.956,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1735.961,"endTime":1736.831,"body":"No, that does not happen."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1737.126,"endTime":1737.456,"body":"That doesn't"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1737.576,"endTime":1740.036,"body":"it does, it"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1737.576,"endTime":1740.036,"body":"absolutely does not happen."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1740.036,"endTime":1743.936,"body":"And I was so glad that he just"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1740.036,"endTime":1743.936,"body":"stays a dick the entire time."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1744.386,"endTime":1744.716,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1744.716,"endTime":1745.886,"body":"He just stays an asshole."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1746.186,"endTime":1746.546,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1747.296,"endTime":1750.596,"body":"He has, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1747.296,"endTime":1750.596,"body":"redeeming qualities, a little"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1750.836,"endTime":1751.916,"body":"May maybe."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1752.096,"endTime":1753.146,"body":"tiny, tiny bit."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1753.476,"endTime":1756.776,"body":"It's like, it's like 5% and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1753.476,"endTime":1756.776,"body":"the other 95% is asshole."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1757.776,"endTime":1761.346,"body":"and he gets away"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1757.776,"endTime":1761.346,"body":"with so much Queen Sef has."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1761.496,"endTime":1764.826,"body":"She kind of at, at the end acknowledges"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1761.496,"endTime":1764.826,"body":"like, Hey, maybe I should have"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1764.826,"endTime":1766.746,"body":"given him a single consequence."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1766.956,"endTime":1769.626,"body":"It's like, yeah, maybe you should have."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1770.376,"endTime":1774.186,"body":"Yeah, there's definitely a sense"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1770.376,"endTime":1774.186,"body":"to which Sef's relationship with Annie"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1774.186,"endTime":1778.026,"body":"and Lysander is messy and complicated."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1778.606,"endTime":1783.213,"body":"And even though she's a very, just"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1778.606,"endTime":1783.213,"body":"person in the sense of justice is blind."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1783.733,"endTime":1785.833,"body":"Very, like balancing the scales."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1786.118,"endTime":1792.13,"body":"there is an extent to which she at least,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1786.118,"endTime":1792.13,"body":"you know, as I was writing her and writing"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1792.13,"endTime":1796.615,"body":"her actions, there is a slight extent"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1792.13,"endTime":1796.615,"body":"to which she feels as though she owes"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1796.675,"endTime":1803.545,"body":"Annie and thus, by extension kind of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1796.675,"endTime":1803.545,"body":"owes a little bit of leeway to Lysander."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1804.155,"endTime":1807.705,"body":"That again, he does kind of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1804.155,"endTime":1807.705,"body":"go, he goes too far at the end."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1808.025,"endTime":1811.115,"body":"Like he, he's very much, he"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1808.025,"endTime":1811.115,"body":"does follow the letter of her"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1811.115,"endTime":1813.515,"body":"law, not quite the spirit."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1813.545,"endTime":1817.205,"body":"And at, at the end when he really"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1813.545,"endTime":1817.205,"body":"goes against the letter of her law"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1817.235,"endTime":1821.855,"body":"is when it's like, nope, that is the,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1817.235,"endTime":1821.855,"body":"that is when the justice is blind."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1822.215,"endTime":1823.895,"body":"The scales need to be balanced."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1823.895,"endTime":1825.095,"body":"That is when that kicks in."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1825.095,"endTime":1826.955,"body":"And Sef is like, absolutely not."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1827.255,"endTime":1829.115,"body":"That was a direct."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1829.82,"endTime":1831.41,"body":"You directly disobeyed."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1832.22,"endTime":1835.58,"body":"You know, this isn't something where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1832.22,"endTime":1835.58,"body":"I can be like, there's wiggle room."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1835.7,"endTime":1838.79,"body":"This is fully something where it's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1835.7,"endTime":1838.79,"body":"like, this was black and white."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1839.79,"endTime":1843.57,"body":"Which is ironic in a sense, because"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1839.79,"endTime":1843.57,"body":"if she had reigned him in earlier, he"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":1843.57,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"might not have gotten to that point,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1846.37,"endTime":1846.82,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1846.85,"endTime":1849.46,"body":"You know, it, it is, but it, it's,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1846.85,"endTime":1849.46,"body":"it's, again, it's one of those things"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1849.46,"endTime":1853.0,"body":"where I, I have characters throughout"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1849.46,"endTime":1853.0,"body":"the book, I think, say this, where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1853.15,"endTime":1855.79,"body":"Sef isn't cruel, she's just heartless."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1856.21,"endTime":1858.49,"body":"So she has, I mean, literally"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1858.55,"endTime":1866.485,"body":"as, As we find out but she isn't actively"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1858.55,"endTime":1866.485,"body":"trying to make anyone's lives harder."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1866.485,"endTime":1869.755,"body":"She's actively trying to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1866.485,"endTime":1869.755,"body":"make their lives better."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1869.815,"endTime":1872.841,"body":"She's just not lovey-dovey about it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1873.019,"endTime":1873.949,"body":"she doesn't know how to be."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1874.389,"endTime":1880.449,"body":"So with Lysander, there's definitely"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1874.389,"endTime":1880.449,"body":"that extent to which she is trying to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1880.869,"endTime":1883.629,"body":"make him happy and fulfilled in life."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1884.063,"endTime":1889.303,"body":"in a way that, you know, like a rational"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1884.063,"endTime":1889.303,"body":"human who's maybe been to therapy would"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1889.303,"endTime":1893.083,"body":"not think is a, is a good solution at all."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1893.083,"endTime":1899.173,"body":"But to, to them and to Sef you know,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1893.083,"endTime":1899.173,"body":"the way she kind of gives Lysander some"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1899.173,"endTime":1906.635,"body":"free reign is definitely a, a way in"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1899.173,"endTime":1906.635,"body":"which her heartlessness expresses itself."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1906.715,"endTime":1907.615,"body":"And again, it really is."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1907.615,"endTime":1908.635,"body":"She's not cruel."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1908.725,"endTime":1909.835,"body":"She is just heartless."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1910.075,"endTime":1913.015,"body":"It's more like, yeah, she's not ruthless."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1913.165,"endTime":1914.725,"body":"a pejorative, it's just a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1914.755,"endTime":1917.275,"body":"Yeah, yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1917.665,"endTime":1920.935,"body":"You know, 'cause I, I feel like so often,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1917.665,"endTime":1920.935,"body":"you know, there's the like, cruel, evil"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1920.935,"endTime":1926.935,"body":"queen trope, and it's like Sef has a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1920.935,"endTime":1926.935,"body":"tiny bit of that, but it's not malicious."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1927.265,"endTime":1927.955,"body":"It's like."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1928.84,"endTime":1931.33,"body":"It's kind of its own version of Brutalism."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1931.64,"endTime":1934.34,"body":"Different from how the bastion"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1931.64,"endTime":1934.34,"body":"is, but it's, it's sort of its"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1934.34,"endTime":1936.62,"body":"own version of practicality."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1936.89,"endTime":1938.81,"body":"It's its own black and white."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1939.305,"endTime":1943.145,"body":"All of the troi become"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1939.305,"endTime":1943.145,"body":"troi due to some kind of trauma."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1943.685,"endTime":1945.875,"body":"And they don't go to therapy."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1945.875,"endTime":1949.055,"body":"They just turn into these,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1945.875,"endTime":1949.055,"body":"you know, immortal beings."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1949.245,"endTime":1949.535,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1949.64,"endTime":1951.14,"body":"And then they do a lot of weed."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1951.545,"endTime":1952.025,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1952.13,"endTime":1954.44,"body":"If they're, in the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1952.13,"endTime":1954.44,"body":"deep, it's so much weed."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1954.62,"endTime":1959.2,"body":"If they're in, like, if they're in the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1954.62,"endTime":1959.2,"body":"mist I honestly was not able to figure"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1959.2,"endTime":1962.62,"body":"out exactly what they're smoking, but"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1959.2,"endTime":1962.62,"body":"that there's a lot of vaping going on."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1963.62,"endTime":1963.83,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1963.83,"endTime":1967.07,"body":"So they, instead of doing therapy,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1963.83,"endTime":1967.07,"body":"they just do a lot of drugs."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1967.445,"endTime":1968.465,"body":"So many drugs."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1969.465,"endTime":1971.325,"body":"There's straight up"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1969.465,"endTime":1971.325,"body":"just having a good time."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1972.325,"endTime":1972.475,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1972.685,"endTime":1976.355,"body":"So now that we're in the spoiler section"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1972.685,"endTime":1976.355,"body":"I do wanna circle back to the question"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1976.355,"endTime":1982.035,"body":"about if Lucia had asked for her"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":1976.355,"endTime":1982.035,"body":"contract, would they have let her read it?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1983.035,"endTime":1985.435,"body":"I think they would."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1985.525,"endTime":1989.005,"body":"Oh God, that is such a difficult"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1985.525,"endTime":1989.005,"body":"question because I don't think it ever"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1989.005,"endTime":1991.195,"body":"occurred to Lucia to read her contract."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1991.345,"endTime":1995.605,"body":"Like I I don't think it would've"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1991.345,"endTime":1995.605,"body":"been something she'd have thought of."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1996.175,"endTime":2001.675,"body":"I think they probably would've said like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":1996.175,"endTime":2001.675,"body":"oh, well there's nothing prohibiting"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2001.675,"endTime":2002.965,"body":"you from reading your contract."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2002.965,"endTime":2005.365,"body":"But I don't think they would've like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2002.965,"endTime":2005.365,"body":"held her hand and walked her to where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2005.365,"endTime":2007.195,"body":"it is and explained how to access it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2007.555,"endTime":2010.255,"body":"Like, I think they would've just"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2007.555,"endTime":2010.255,"body":"been like, well, it's not illegal."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2011.255,"endTime":2012.95,"body":"If you, if you"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2011.255,"endTime":2012.95,"body":"find it, you can read it."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2012.95,"endTime":2014.475,"body":"We're not gonna stop"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2012.95,"endTime":2014.475,"body":"you, but we're not gonna"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2014.63,"endTime":2017.75,"body":"Or, yeah, like I, I think"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2014.63,"endTime":2017.75,"body":"that's probably how it would've,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2017.81,"endTime":2019.01,"body":"how it would've gone down."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2020.01,"endTime":2023.67,"body":"Oh man, she is absolutely thrown"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2020.01,"endTime":2023.67,"body":"to the wolves in the sense of like"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2024.06,"endTime":2026.46,"body":"social norms and rules with the Astra."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2026.97,"endTime":2032.08,"body":"That hit my anxiety every time she's"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2026.97,"endTime":2032.08,"body":"trying to operate within their culture"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2032.08,"endTime":2035.59,"body":"and she's just like flailing and"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2032.08,"endTime":2035.59,"body":"doesn't know what their norms are."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2035.59,"endTime":2036.79,"body":"I was like, do stop."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2036.85,"endTime":2037.54,"body":"What are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2038.54,"endTime":2045.47,"body":"Yeah, she, she is, her personality"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2038.54,"endTime":2045.47,"body":"type is extremely at odds, the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2045.47,"endTime":2047.36,"body":"personality types of the averages."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2047.36,"endTime":2052.26,"body":"Rosie ironically again, she's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2047.36,"endTime":2052.26,"body":"closer to Sef than she is to most"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2052.26,"endTime":2054.09,"body":"of the others personality wise."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2054.6,"endTime":2058.23,"body":"Even though, you know, Sef as Queen"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2054.6,"endTime":2058.23,"body":"is, you would think is like, ah, she"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2058.23,"endTime":2060.27,"body":"exemplifies everything that the Astro are."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2060.52,"endTime":2061.9,"body":"And she, she does not."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2062.45,"endTime":2067.823,"body":"And so Lucia is closer in personality"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2062.45,"endTime":2067.823,"body":"to Sef than she is to most of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2067.823,"endTime":2074.183,"body":"others, except she obviously doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2067.823,"endTime":2074.183,"body":"understand the, wordsmithing of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2074.183,"endTime":2077.273,"body":"astro that Sef very clearly has mastered."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2078.273,"endTime":2080.793,"body":"And no one explains it to her."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2080.853,"endTime":2084.123,"body":"Lysander, of course not because"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2080.853,"endTime":2084.123,"body":"he likes to see her struggle."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2084.643,"endTime":2085.183,"body":"An asshole."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2085.688,"endTime":2089.503,"body":"It, it amused me to no end"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2085.688,"endTime":2089.503,"body":"that like it never occurred to"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2089.503,"endTime":2091.453,"body":"Lucia to ask to see her contract."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2091.873,"endTime":2095.713,"body":"It never occurred to her to sit down and"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2091.873,"endTime":2095.713,"body":"ask Annie like, so what's their deal?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2096.583,"endTime":2102.583,"body":"Yeah, no, it, it, she, she misses,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2096.583,"endTime":2102.583,"body":"I think what we would view as obvious."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2103.013,"endTime":2108.563,"body":"Because she has, she's so overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2103.013,"endTime":2108.563,"body":"in every, you know, all her senses are"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2108.563,"endTime":2113.153,"body":"overwhelmed, her mind's overwhelmed"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2108.563,"endTime":2113.153,"body":"that she never has the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2113.153,"endTime":2118.223,"body":"to get any perspective and to think"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2113.153,"endTime":2118.223,"body":"about things in the same way that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2118.223,"endTime":2120.563,"body":"like an onlooker would think of."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2120.983,"endTime":2123.353,"body":"So all, a lot of this stuff"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2120.983,"endTime":2123.353,"body":"just does not occur to her."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2123.443,"endTime":2127.883,"body":"She's too busy dealing with other types"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2123.443,"endTime":2127.883,"body":"of anxiety and things that she views as"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2127.883,"endTime":2130.133,"body":"more practical and immediate threats."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2130.433,"endTime":2132.713,"body":"But they're more external threats."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2132.713,"endTime":2135.303,"body":"They're not interpersonal issues."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2135.303,"endTime":2137.018,"body":"Those just don't come up to her as much."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2138.018,"endTime":2142.163,"body":"Speaking of things that didn't"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2138.018,"endTime":2142.163,"body":"come up to her the tension that I"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2142.163,"endTime":2146.513,"body":"felt as the reader of waiting for"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2142.163,"endTime":2146.513,"body":"her to realize that time was passing"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2146.543,"endTime":2151.313,"body":"differently in the bastion versus the"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2146.543,"endTime":2151.313,"body":"deep, like she doesn't think about it."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2151.313,"endTime":2151.573,"body":"There, there are."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2151.763,"endTime":2155.433,"body":"Are hints left in the text and,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2151.763,"endTime":2155.433,"body":"and in dialogue that, that she"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2155.433,"endTime":2157.233,"body":"has, but she doesn't recognize it."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2157.233,"endTime":2161.343,"body":"But anyone who knows anything"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2157.233,"endTime":2161.343,"body":"about like Fae tropes is"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2161.343,"endTime":2163.083,"body":"like, this is, this is coming."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2163.383,"endTime":2167.643,"body":"And I was waiting for like that"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2163.383,"endTime":2167.643,"body":"full first half of the book for"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2167.643,"endTime":2170.043,"body":"her to realize like, oh my God."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2170.433,"endTime":2171.273,"body":"Oh my God."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2172.273,"endTime":2177.373,"body":"Yeah, that was, that was something"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2172.273,"endTime":2177.373,"body":"where I knew that people who were"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2177.373,"endTime":2182.353,"body":"well acquainted with Fae myths would"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2177.373,"endTime":2182.353,"body":"pick up on it, and I knew that all I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2182.353,"endTime":2186.583,"body":"really had to do was leave a couple"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2182.353,"endTime":2186.583,"body":"of like little bits of foreshadowing."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2186.583,"endTime":2188.173,"body":"I knew that if I laid it on heavy."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2188.698,"endTime":2191.518,"body":"It, the readers would"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2188.698,"endTime":2191.518,"body":"not be happy with it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2191.738,"endTime":2193.608,"body":"But yeah, I, I I was having a good time."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2194.493,"endTime":2195.693,"body":"Right in those bits of foreshadowing."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2195.903,"endTime":2199.773,"body":"But you know, if you don't know"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2195.903,"endTime":2199.773,"body":"Fae tropes, that would not occur"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2199.773,"endTime":2201.183,"body":"to you as a thing that's happening."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2201.453,"endTime":2206.193,"body":"And Lusia does not know Fae tropes by"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2201.453,"endTime":2206.193,"body":"virtue of not existing in a world where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2206.193,"endTime":2208.503,"body":"there's fame, mythology as we know of it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2208.883,"endTime":2210.383,"body":"And to the astro, they're immortal."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2210.413,"endTime":2211.193,"body":"They're unchanging."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2211.193,"endTime":2212.153,"body":"So it doesn't affect them."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2212.183,"endTime":2213.083,"body":"It literally doesn't."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2213.143,"endTime":2215.993,"body":"So it's not something that they"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2213.143,"endTime":2215.993,"body":"would like think of mentioning."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2216.203,"endTime":2219.593,"body":"Like the only person who mentions"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2216.203,"endTime":2219.593,"body":"it even slightly is Annie."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2219.953,"endTime":2224.393,"body":"And she doesn't like, she, she's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2219.953,"endTime":2224.393,"body":"unwilling to tell Lucia outright,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2224.393,"endTime":2227.633,"body":"like, I think Annie's line is just"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2224.393,"endTime":2227.633,"body":"like, I briefly went back to the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2227.633,"endTime":2229.673,"body":"Bastion, but it wasn't my bastion."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2230.223,"endTime":2233.583,"body":"And you know, that's kind of like, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2230.223,"endTime":2233.583,"body":"'cause a shit ton of time had passed for,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2233.943,"endTime":2236.013,"body":"so it really was not the city she left."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2236.333,"endTime":2241.073,"body":"But you know, a reader who knows these"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2236.333,"endTime":2241.073,"body":"tropes might pick up on that eia, does"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2241.073,"endTime":2244.823,"body":"not know these tropes and is too busy"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2241.073,"endTime":2244.823,"body":"concerned with things that she thinks are"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2244.823,"endTime":2246.503,"body":"more immediate, even though they are not."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2247.503,"endTime":2249.933,"body":"Yeah, it was, it was fun to write"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2247.503,"endTime":2249.933,"body":"and that was something I knew that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2249.933,"endTime":2251.463,"body":"was gonna happen very early on."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2251.773,"endTime":2255.63,"body":"again, you know, don't eat the food of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2251.773,"endTime":2255.63,"body":"Fae, don't give the Fae your real name."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2255.63,"endTime":2257.79,"body":"I was like, yep, time is"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2255.63,"endTime":2257.79,"body":"gonna pass differently there."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2257.97,"endTime":2261.99,"body":"That is how the trope works,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2257.97,"endTime":2261.99,"body":"and it is so good every time."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2262.715,"endTime":2265.68,"body":"And then we even got some"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2262.715,"endTime":2265.68,"body":"of the classic imagery, right?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2265.78,"endTime":2271.03,"body":"Queen Sef's bower is like under"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2265.78,"endTime":2271.03,"body":"a hill that has a tree on it,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2271.03,"endTime":2273.04,"body":"which is very classic fairy."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2273.68,"endTime":2274.46,"body":"That was delightful."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2275.46,"endTime":2278.4,"body":"Yeah, I was, I was having such"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2275.46,"endTime":2278.4,"body":"a good time writing stuff like that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2278.4,"endTime":2280.5,"body":"because I'm a very visual writer."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2280.62,"endTime":2285.67,"body":"I'm, I'm also an artist for those of, for"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2280.62,"endTime":2285.67,"body":"those listeners that haven't heard me be"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2285.67,"endTime":2287.8,"body":"like, oh, I'm also an artist all the time."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2288.08,"endTime":2292.49,"body":"I'm also an artist, so I visualize"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2288.08,"endTime":2292.49,"body":"a lot of scenes before I write them."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2292.49,"endTime":2295.52,"body":"And I know there are a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2292.49,"endTime":2295.52,"body":"authors who work differently where"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2295.52,"endTime":2298.4,"body":"they think of like the interiority"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2295.52,"endTime":2298.4,"body":"and how that would be written out"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2298.4,"endTime":2299.63,"body":"before they think of the visuals."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2299.84,"endTime":2301.97,"body":"But for me, I always think"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2299.84,"endTime":2301.97,"body":"of the visuals first."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2302.43,"endTime":2306.13,"body":"So coming up with these, ways of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2302.43,"endTime":2306.13,"body":"bringing in, you know, like the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2306.13,"endTime":2311.55,"body":"bower, Sef bower bringing that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2306.13,"endTime":2311.55,"body":"into sci-fi was very fun for me."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2312.55,"endTime":2312.84,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2313.035,"endTime":2313.275,"body":"quick."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2313.305,"endTime":2314.445,"body":"I have a stupid question."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2314.445,"endTime":2316.635,"body":"I know you're about to ask a good"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2314.445,"endTime":2316.635,"body":"one, but I have a stupid one."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2317.115,"endTime":2322.605,"body":"Very early on, speaking of hints, very"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2317.115,"endTime":2322.605,"body":"early on, there's the Icosahedron, which I"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2322.605,"endTime":2324.195,"body":"had to look up and I'm embarrassed about."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2324.225,"endTime":2324.885,"body":"It's a D 20."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2325.555,"endTime":2326.335,"body":"Is a D 20,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2326.605,"endTime":2329.785,"body":"Is it just a total red"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2326.605,"endTime":2329.785,"body":"herring or did I miss something?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2329.785,"endTime":2330.865,"body":"it's a total red herring."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2330.865,"endTime":2331.825,"body":"It's a total red herring."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2332.105,"endTime":2337.915,"body":"It is just one of those pieces of like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2332.105,"endTime":2337.915,"body":"era one, bricka brack and it being a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2337.915,"endTime":2342.092,"body":"D 20 is ' cause it's a D 20 and that's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2337.915,"endTime":2342.092,"body":"just me throwing in a little bit of fun."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2342.362,"endTime":2344.012,"body":"Yeah, no, that, that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2342.362,"endTime":2344.012,"body":"is fully a red herring."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2344.012,"endTime":2349.502,"body":"It's, it's just something that Carrie and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2344.012,"endTime":2349.502,"body":"briefly thinks like might be the diamond."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2349.952,"endTime":2355.922,"body":"Because you know, they're like, man,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2349.952,"endTime":2355.922,"body":"literally there's so much era one"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2355.922,"endTime":2357.932,"body":"trash, like littering around the place."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2357.932,"endTime":2360.642,"body":"It's kind of like, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2357.932,"endTime":2360.642,"body":"those those European countries"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2360.642,"endTime":2363.942,"body":"that still have like landmines from"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2360.642,"endTime":2363.942,"body":"World War II that are unexploded."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2364.302,"endTime":2366.072,"body":"And you're kind of just like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2364.302,"endTime":2366.072,"body":"yeah, sometimes they just show"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2366.072,"endTime":2368.922,"body":"up and like a bomb squad has to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2366.072,"endTime":2368.922,"body":"be called in to deal with it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2369.222,"endTime":2372.582,"body":"That's kind of how a lot of like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2369.222,"endTime":2372.582,"body":"era one bricka brack is treated."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2373.582,"endTime":2375.202,"body":"All right, Sarah, you"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2373.582,"endTime":2375.202,"body":"can ask your good question now."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2375.537,"endTime":2375.627,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2376.147,"endTime":2379.602,"body":"I I don't, I don't know if it's really"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2376.147,"endTime":2379.602,"body":"a good question, but and it's not"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2379.602,"endTime":2382.002,"body":"relevant to the story at all really."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2382.332,"endTime":2384.882,"body":"But it's something that I was"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2382.332,"endTime":2384.882,"body":"wondering as I was reading it."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2385.072,"endTime":2389.122,"body":"Do you know how the first astro"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2385.072,"endTime":2389.122,"body":"were created from the Terraforms?"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2389.302,"endTime":2393.682,"body":"Or is that something where you figured,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2389.302,"endTime":2393.682,"body":"I knew they were, I don't know how,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2393.742,"endTime":2395.452,"body":"I don't need to know the details."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2395.952,"endTime":2397.662,"body":"I, yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2397.662,"endTime":2402.452,"body":"So, basically when the terraforming"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2397.662,"endTime":2402.452,"body":"ship, hi, we're in spoiler territory."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2402.642,"endTime":2402.912,"body":"When the"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2403.007,"endTime":2403.777,"body":"It's a spaceship."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2403.917,"endTime":2404.137,"body":"Ah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2404.502,"endTime":2409.762,"body":"Yeah, well, like when it crashed"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2404.502,"endTime":2409.762,"body":"in my mind, so the, the way you become"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2409.762,"endTime":2413.242,"body":"a STR is you basically have part of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2409.762,"endTime":2413.242,"body":"the terraforming device in your body."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2413.752,"endTime":2417.802,"body":"And the way the astro do it is"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2413.752,"endTime":2417.802,"body":"they generally replace something"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2418.322,"endTime":2422.342,"body":"like an organ or part of your"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2418.322,"endTime":2422.342,"body":"skin or something like that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2422.772,"endTime":2425.772,"body":"And in my head, how the first"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2422.772,"endTime":2425.772,"body":"ones were created is they happened"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2425.772,"endTime":2429.552,"body":"to be just like average workers"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2425.772,"endTime":2429.552,"body":"near those terraforming devices."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2429.552,"endTime":2433.842,"body":"When the ship crashed, they were"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2429.552,"endTime":2433.842,"body":"damaged in the crash and kind of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2433.842,"endTime":2437.792,"body":"just like splash damage, essentially"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2433.842,"endTime":2437.792,"body":"terraforming splash damage."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2437.822,"endTime":2441.802,"body":"And that healed the injuries that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2437.822,"endTime":2441.802,"body":"they had sustained during the crash."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2441.802,"endTime":2442.772,"body":"And then they were like, Hey, if."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2442.974,"endTime":2446.574,"body":"We could fix some people with this, and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2442.974,"endTime":2446.574,"body":"then it went terribly from there on out."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2446.884,"endTime":2450.874,"body":"So that, that, that in my head"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2446.884,"endTime":2450.874,"body":"is how the first OSI came to be."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2450.874,"endTime":2455.721,"body":"But that's not actually inherently, that's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2450.874,"endTime":2455.721,"body":"not anything the reader needs to know."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2456.111,"endTime":2458.841,"body":"I mean, it's, it's not, it's"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2456.111,"endTime":2458.841,"body":"not relevant to the story at all."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2459.501,"endTime":2461.811,"body":"yeah, it's not relevant and it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2459.501,"endTime":2461.811,"body":"was something where I never really found"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2461.811,"endTime":2464.451,"body":"a good place to like sprinkle it in."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2464.891,"endTime":2468.191,"body":"Because, you know, as, as a writer"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2464.891,"endTime":2468.191,"body":"you have so much more in your head,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2468.551,"endTime":2470.291,"body":"but you never wanna be like, anyway."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2470.321,"endTime":2471.011,"body":"Hello reader."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2471.101,"endTime":2476.111,"body":"Welcome to five Pages of me explaining"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2471.101,"endTime":2476.111,"body":"things that happened like forever"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2476.111,"endTime":2478.181,"body":"ago that aren't relevant now."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2479.351,"endTime":2483.411,"body":"there anything else that you,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2479.351,"endTime":2483.411,"body":"like any other cool idea that you"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2483.411,"endTime":2487.161,"body":"had that you wanted to include but"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2483.411,"endTime":2487.161,"body":"just couldn't find a good place for?"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2487.161,"endTime":2487.191,"body":"I."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2488.012,"endTime":2494.382,"body":"yes, I. Really wanted"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2488.012,"endTime":2494.382,"body":"to include more of what"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2494.382,"endTime":2497.592,"body":"happened to the original crew."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2497.622,"endTime":2500.592,"body":"Like the original, not, not"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2497.622,"endTime":2500.592,"body":"like the C-suite, but like"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2500.592,"endTime":2502.722,"body":"the command crew of the ship."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2503.032,"endTime":2504.232,"body":"We see a little bit of that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2504.232,"endTime":2508.068,"body":"We see like a picture and like, the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2504.232,"endTime":2508.068,"body":"remnants of like an office plaque."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2508.498,"endTime":2513.028,"body":"We see a bit of that and I, I kind of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2508.498,"endTime":2513.028,"body":"wanted to include more about it, but I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2513.028,"endTime":2515.518,"body":"was just like, this, this isn't useful."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2515.867,"endTime":2516.857,"body":"It's not going anywhere."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2517.192,"endTime":2520.067,"body":"It, it would, it would, again, it would"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2517.192,"endTime":2520.067,"body":"just be a few pages of me being like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2520.187,"endTime":2525.407,"body":"here's what I, the author I have thought"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2520.187,"endTime":2525.407,"body":"of that isn't important, but here you go."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2525.767,"endTime":2526.627,"body":"Hey, isn't it neat?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2527.447,"endTime":2528.437,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2528.767,"endTime":2528.977,"body":"That."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2529.097,"endTime":2531.677,"body":"I, for all that I love Lord of the Rings."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2531.917,"endTime":2533.997,"body":"I don't write the Silmarillion."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2534.012,"endTime":2538.152,"body":"And the Silmarillion is, Hey, here's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2534.012,"endTime":2538.152,"body":"all the shit that wasn't in the book."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2538.152,"endTime":2539.532,"body":"It's literally a Bible."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2539.812,"endTime":2544.582,"body":"I, I, I actively try not to include"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2539.812,"endTime":2544.582,"body":"any of that in my book because"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2544.582,"endTime":2547.222,"body":"there's only one person who can do"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2544.582,"endTime":2547.222,"body":"the Silmarillion, and it's not me."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2547.757,"endTime":2551.032,"body":"And to be fair, the Silmarillion"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2547.757,"endTime":2551.032,"body":"is not in the Lord of the Rings."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2551.062,"endTime":2554.182,"body":"No, it is also not even though,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2551.062,"endTime":2554.182,"body":"let me tell you, a lot of the Lord of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2554.182,"endTime":2560.062,"body":"Rings has like, by the way, let me explain"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2554.182,"endTime":2560.062,"body":"some things, except oftentimes it's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2560.062,"endTime":2563.962,"body":"like, and then Tolkien decided to spend"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2560.062,"endTime":2563.962,"body":"a page talking about how pretty a tree"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2563.962,"endTime":2566.092,"body":"is, and you know, we love that for him."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2566.122,"endTime":2567.832,"body":"Apparently he was like that in real life."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2568.012,"endTime":2568.852,"body":"So good for him."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2568.882,"endTime":2569.752,"body":"He was consistent."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2570.752,"endTime":2576.752,"body":"Speaking of trope, subversions"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2570.752,"endTime":2576.752,"body":"and becoming Astro, our main"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2576.752,"endTime":2580.932,"body":"character, Lucia goes through her"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2576.752,"endTime":2580.932,"body":"crisis of finding out that she has"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2580.932,"endTime":2583.377,"body":"outlived all of her relatives, and."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2583.987,"endTime":2588.531,"body":"We time skip a little bit, find out"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2583.987,"endTime":2588.531,"body":"that she has her heart replaced and"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2588.591,"endTime":2592.101,"body":"becomes heartless, similar to queen Sef."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2592.474,"endTime":2596.374,"body":"And then later she has the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2592.474,"endTime":2596.374,"body":"to take her heart back and she chooses"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2596.374,"endTime":2600.904,"body":"not to, which was a fascinating journey."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2601.404,"endTime":2606.594,"body":"I think we're so primed to expect the, and"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2601.404,"endTime":2606.594,"body":"then they fix it and everything's better."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2607.164,"endTime":2610.704,"body":"Quote unquote, better"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2607.164,"endTime":2610.704,"body":"resolution from heroes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2611.704,"endTime":2612.184,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2612.214,"endTime":2616.414,"body":"No, I think there probably was in my"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2612.214,"endTime":2616.414,"body":"head early on some version of things"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2616.414,"endTime":2618.154,"body":"where Lucia takes her heart back."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2618.544,"endTime":2625.534,"body":"But the more I wrote it, the more I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2618.544,"endTime":2625.534,"body":"realized that she just wouldn't like her."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2625.954,"endTime":2628.264,"body":"Her original anxiety would be."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2628.339,"endTime":2633.019,"body":"It's sort of too much, like she"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2628.339,"endTime":2633.019,"body":"would have too many worries about"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2633.019,"endTime":2636.002,"body":"like I. Why did I give up my heart?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2636.002,"endTime":2637.532,"body":"Like, why did I bargain this away?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2637.862,"endTime":2642.272,"body":"And in the end she kind of is"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2637.862,"endTime":2642.272,"body":"like, I can't second guess past me"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2642.422,"endTime":2647.792,"body":"constantly or else like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2642.422,"endTime":2647.792,"body":"I'll, I'll just be in a loop forever."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2648.192,"endTime":2651.792,"body":"So she ends up not giving it, not"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2648.192,"endTime":2651.792,"body":"getting her heart back and just kind of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2651.792,"endTime":2653.952,"body":"being like, yeah, this is who I am now."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2654.012,"endTime":2655.182,"body":"I can't go backwards."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2655.182,"endTime":2656.592,"body":"I don't want to go backwards."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2656.922,"endTime":2658.082,"body":"I don't wanna know what I gave up."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2658.696,"endTime":2662.356,"body":"and I, I think we don't see that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2658.696,"endTime":2662.356,"body":"as often, but it felt very true"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2662.356,"endTime":2666.689,"body":"to her character and it felt more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2662.356,"endTime":2666.689,"body":"true to the, the story as a whole."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2667.059,"endTime":2670.089,"body":"you know, 'cause like you said, so much"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2667.059,"endTime":2670.089,"body":"of it is subversion and a different"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2670.089,"endTime":2671.979,"body":"way of doing like a phase story."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2671.979,"endTime":2677.809,"body":"And I, I feel like if I had had her take"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2671.979,"endTime":2677.809,"body":"her heart back, it would have been less"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2677.809,"endTime":2680.179,"body":"of a subversion than I wanted it to."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2680.179,"endTime":2684.679,"body":"It would've felt more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2680.179,"endTime":2684.679,"body":"fairytale than I was writing."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2685.109,"endTime":2686.909,"body":"And again, it just didn't"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2685.109,"endTime":2686.909,"body":"make sense for her character."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2686.909,"endTime":2690.269,"body":"It felt like better character growth"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2686.909,"endTime":2690.269,"body":"for her to not take her heart back."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2691.104,"endTime":2694.994,"body":"It's really genuine change"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2691.104,"endTime":2694.994,"body":"instead of regression in that sense."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2695.009,"endTime":2695.579,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2696.119,"endTime":2696.389,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2696.484,"endTime":2699.507,"body":"well, I mean, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2696.484,"endTime":2699.507,"body":"we've used this in some marketing"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2699.627,"endTime":2703.107,"body":"graphics and stuff, but one of the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2699.627,"endTime":2703.107,"body":"descriptions for the book is the ship"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2703.107,"endTime":2706.707,"body":"of Theseus, but with people and you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2703.107,"endTime":2706.707,"body":"know, that that's kind of part of it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2706.707,"endTime":2711.747,"body":"Like, she can't take back the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2706.707,"endTime":2711.747,"body":"original part of her body ship."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2712.197,"endTime":2713.187,"body":"Like it's gone."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2713.187,"endTime":2715.047,"body":"She's, she's moving on, she's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2713.187,"endTime":2715.047,"body":"something different now."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2715.477,"endTime":2718.057,"body":"So yeah, it, it was necessary"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2715.477,"endTime":2718.057,"body":"for her to not take it back."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2718.057,"endTime":2722.407,"body":"And I, I think if I had made it so"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2718.057,"endTime":2722.407,"body":"that she takes her heart back, it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2722.407,"endTime":2725.227,"body":"would've weakened the story as a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2722.407,"endTime":2725.227,"body":"whole and weakened her character."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2725.277,"endTime":2728.122,"body":"Well, and it's, it's less,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2725.277,"endTime":2728.122,"body":"I'm gonna say less realistic."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2728.122,"endTime":2730.582,"body":"I know we're talking"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2728.122,"endTime":2730.582,"body":"about fairies, but hear me"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2730.747,"endTime":2732.967,"body":"What you're telling"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2730.747,"endTime":2732.967,"body":"me fairies aren't realistic?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2732.967,"endTime":2733.837,"body":"That's crazy."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2734.362,"endTime":2737.692,"body":"Well, people do go through"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2734.362,"endTime":2737.692,"body":"traumatic events that change them,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2737.962,"endTime":2743.122,"body":"and you can't go back and undo that,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2737.962,"endTime":2743.122,"body":"but you can like, make peace with"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2743.122,"endTime":2744.652,"body":"who you are now and move forward."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2745.142,"endTime":2749.132,"body":"And so it feels a lot better in that"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2745.142,"endTime":2749.132,"body":"way, like just to have her say like, no,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2749.312,"endTime":2750.842,"body":"this is who I am and I'm okay with it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2751.352,"endTime":2753.992,"body":"Instead of like constantly"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2751.352,"endTime":2753.992,"body":"trying to fix herself."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2754.377,"endTime":2754.797,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2755.027,"endTime":2759.347,"body":"Yeah, like it, it the sort of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2755.027,"endTime":2759.347,"body":"undoing of what you've been through"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2759.887,"endTime":2765.101,"body":"I think, you know, can work with some"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2759.887,"endTime":2765.101,"body":"narratives but, did not work for this one."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2765.201,"endTime":2769.071,"body":"You know, a a lot of this is very,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2765.201,"endTime":2769.071,"body":"like, you cannot undo your actions."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2769.311,"endTime":2771.291,"body":"You can't take back what's been said."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2771.591,"endTime":2773.421,"body":"You can't undo a contract."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2773.631,"endTime":2779.417,"body":"Like once something happens to you, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2773.631,"endTime":2779.417,"body":"have to go forward with that as it is."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2779.787,"endTime":2783.987,"body":"And yeah, no, it, it is something"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2779.787,"endTime":2783.987,"body":"where, you know, trauma does change you."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2783.987,"endTime":2787.527,"body":"And, you know, oftentimes when you've"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2783.987,"endTime":2787.527,"body":"been through something that really"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2787.527,"endTime":2790.737,"body":"hurts, you want to be like, like if"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2787.527,"endTime":2790.737,"body":"only I could go back in time by a week."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2791.097,"endTime":2793.947,"body":"If only I could go back in time"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2791.097,"endTime":2793.947,"body":"by a month, then surely things"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2793.947,"endTime":2794.757,"body":"would turn out differently."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2795.351,"endTime":2797.841,"body":"and you know, we, we can't,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2795.351,"endTime":2797.841,"body":"we can't time travel."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2797.841,"endTime":2799.701,"body":"That isn't what happens to people."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2800.011,"endTime":2803.836,"body":"You know, you heal and you move"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2800.011,"endTime":2803.836,"body":"on, but you can't you know, go into"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2803.836,"endTime":2807.196,"body":"your brain and like, dig out the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2803.836,"endTime":2807.196,"body":"piece of you that was hurt or dig"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2807.196,"endTime":2808.726,"body":"out, you know, the trauma itself."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2808.726,"endTime":2809.986,"body":"That's, that's not how people work."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2809.986,"endTime":2811.096,"body":"That's not how life works."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2812.096,"endTime":2814.956,"body":"So Lysander, thank"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2812.096,"endTime":2814.956,"body":"goodness is not the love interest."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2815.556,"endTime":2816.246,"body":"No, he's not."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2817.296,"endTime":2823.696,"body":"However, we do get some delightful"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2817.296,"endTime":2823.696,"body":"tension between Lucia and then as"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2823.696,"endTime":2827.626,"body":"she becomes astro and becomes Ziane."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2827.646,"endTime":2831.586,"body":"Her second sort of persona"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2827.646,"endTime":2831.586,"body":"or not persona, second self"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2832.186,"endTime":2832.426,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2832.426,"endTime":2835.021,"body":"It, it's the, the Fae, take your name."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2835.891,"endTime":2839.891,"body":"So as, as asi she is, she is Ziane."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2839.911,"endTime":2840.871,"body":"She's not Lua."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2841.441,"endTime":2843.871,"body":"She has to get that new name."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2844.231,"endTime":2845.016,"body":"New name, new self."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2845.836,"endTime":2850.636,"body":"but as both selves, she has some"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2845.836,"endTime":2850.636,"body":"great tension with Kerian, who is kind of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2850.636,"endTime":2855.196,"body":"the antagonist throughout the book, but"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2850.636,"endTime":2855.196,"body":"then also secretly the good guy all along."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2856.196,"endTime":2856.436,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2856.526,"endTime":2857.936,"body":"They are, they are the good guy."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2857.936,"endTime":2864.326,"body":"In the absence of better choices"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2857.936,"endTime":2864.326,"body":"they, they don't do good things and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2864.326,"endTime":2866.666,"body":"they're definitely kind of fucked up."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2867.326,"endTime":2868.046,"body":"But, but"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2868.571,"endTime":2870.281,"body":"But they are"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2868.571,"endTime":2870.281,"body":"trying to save the world."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2870.371,"endTime":2873.251,"body":"I feel like that gets you"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2870.371,"endTime":2873.251,"body":"automatic good guy privileges."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2873.506,"endTime":2874.826,"body":"it gets you a little bit of leeway."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2874.901,"endTime":2875.231,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2875.546,"endTime":2877.076,"body":"They're just very bad at it."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2877.426,"endTime":2877.716,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2878.716,"endTime":2880.666,"body":"So there's some tension there."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2880.966,"endTime":2884.429,"body":"And then at the very end, they do kind"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2880.966,"endTime":2884.429,"body":"of have a, I mean, they're, they care"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2884.429,"endTime":2886.019,"body":"very much about each other by that point."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2886.019,"endTime":2887.849,"body":"They've been through quite a bit together."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2888.292,"endTime":2892.192,"body":"and so while there is, in that sense"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2888.292,"endTime":2892.192,"body":"some romance in this book, you use a"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2892.192,"endTime":2895.472,"body":"very light hand throughout the story."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2895.982,"endTime":2898.802,"body":"And I think that also"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2895.982,"endTime":2898.802,"body":"is refreshing in a way."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2898.832,"endTime":2901.592,"body":"Like not, not every story needs"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2898.832,"endTime":2901.592,"body":"to be like about the love that"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":2901.592,"endTime":2903.932,"body":"conquers all, even if I did like it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2904.932,"endTime":2907.727,"body":"I think the, the way I was"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2904.932,"endTime":2907.727,"body":"sort of writing it, so  if you've"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2907.727,"endTime":2914.997,"body":"read Pride and Prejudice there's so"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2907.727,"endTime":2914.997,"body":"many bits where Lizzie is just like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2915.067,"endTime":2916.447,"body":"yeah, this guy just kind of hates me."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2916.447,"endTime":2918.187,"body":"And he's not, interested at all."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2918.457,"endTime":2922.807,"body":"But if you, if you read it in hindsight,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2918.457,"endTime":2922.807,"body":"you could totally see all the bits"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2922.807,"endTime":2924.577,"body":"where Darcy is in the background."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2924.577,"endTime":2926.557,"body":"Like, oh my God, she's the perfect woman."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2926.557,"endTime":2927.307,"body":"I don't know what to do."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2927.392,"endTime":2929.342,"body":"and Lizzie's just"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2927.392,"endTime":2929.342,"body":"completely oblivious to it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2929.342,"endTime":2932.307,"body":"And in my head when I was"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2929.342,"endTime":2932.307,"body":"writing this, there's an element."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2933.092,"endTime":2937.862,"body":"To that with Kerian where they"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2933.092,"endTime":2937.862,"body":"are much more interested in Lua"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2937.862,"endTime":2939.722,"body":"than she is consciously aware of."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2939.932,"endTime":2942.242,"body":"She's very much so, like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2939.932,"endTime":2942.242,"body":"they are an antagonist."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2942.302,"endTime":2944.072,"body":"They are here to do bad things."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2944.432,"endTime":2947.192,"body":"And Kerian is like, damn,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2944.432,"endTime":2947.192,"body":"you're fascinating girl."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2947.762,"endTime":2948.512,"body":"Holy shit."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2949.322,"endTime":2950.252,"body":"What's going on with you?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2950.252,"endTime":2951.122,"body":"You free later today?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2951.512,"endTime":2954.392,"body":"And she's just like, yeah, they're,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2951.512,"endTime":2954.392,"body":"they're doing that just because I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2954.392,"endTime":2957.902,"body":"am in their way and they wish to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2954.392,"endTime":2957.902,"body":"stop me and that is exclusively it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2958.332,"endTime":2960.792,"body":"Which is obviously not the case."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2961.002,"endTime":2964.392,"body":"But I, it was definitely something"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2961.002,"endTime":2964.392,"body":"where I was writing it as like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2964.452,"endTime":2968.412,"body":"they're much more into her from the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2964.452,"endTime":2968.412,"body":"beginning and not necessarily into,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2968.412,"endTime":2971.802,"body":"in a sexual way or romantic way or"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2968.412,"endTime":2971.802,"body":"anything like that, but into, in sort"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2971.802,"endTime":2976.062,"body":"of a, there's something fascinating"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2971.802,"endTime":2976.062,"body":"going on inside your brain and I wanna"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2976.062,"endTime":2977.682,"body":"figure out what it is and how it works."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2978.082,"endTime":2983.722,"body":"And Lucia is not aware of that in the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2978.082,"endTime":2983.722,"body":"way that perhaps a reader in hindsight"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2984.352,"endTime":2987.112,"body":"might be, because again, the story"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2984.352,"endTime":2987.112,"body":"told from her point of view, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":2987.112,"endTime":2988.552,"body":"know, the reader sees what she sees."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2989.547,"endTime":2992.492,"body":"I mean, I, I do think as"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2989.547,"endTime":2992.492,"body":"the reader, it's pretty obvious"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2992.492,"endTime":2995.342,"body":"that Kerian finds her fascinating."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2995.702,"endTime":2999.212,"body":"Again, like you say, not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2995.702,"endTime":2999.212,"body":"in a romantic way initially, but just"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2999.212,"endTime":3005.119,"body":"in a, you think differently from anyone"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":2999.212,"endTime":3005.119,"body":"I've interacted with, you know, so far."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3005.659,"endTime":3008.809,"body":"So I, I do think that comes"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3005.659,"endTime":3008.809,"body":"through, even if Lucia does"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3008.809,"endTime":3010.789,"body":"not consciously recognize it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3011.689,"endTime":3011.899,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3011.899,"endTime":3012.589,"body":"She, she does not."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3013.589,"endTime":3015.324,"body":"I mean, they"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3013.589,"endTime":3015.324,"body":"leave breadcrumbs, right?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3015.324,"endTime":3020.574,"body":"They're, they're actively not taunting"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3015.324,"endTime":3020.574,"body":"her, but kind of trying to entice her."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3021.219,"endTime":3022.089,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3022.094,"endTime":3023.064,"body":"Ab absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3024.114,"endTime":3026.604,"body":"You know, in the beginning there"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3024.114,"endTime":3026.604,"body":"are very much the white rabbit"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3026.664,"endTime":3028.014,"body":"to her Alice in Wonderland."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3028.464,"endTime":3032.064,"body":"And that, that kind of continues"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3028.464,"endTime":3032.064,"body":"in many ways, except it is, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3032.064,"endTime":3033.054,"body":"know, it's a little fucked up."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3034.054,"endTime":3038.194,"body":"I mean, it's probably for the best"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3034.054,"endTime":3038.194,"body":"for their relationship that she as Zianne"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3038.214,"endTime":3040.584,"body":"doesn't remember anything that happened."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3041.584,"endTime":3045.424,"body":"Yeah, there, there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3041.584,"endTime":3045.424,"body":"a bit where she and Ian are talking,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3045.484,"endTime":3050.644,"body":"and Ian's like, a better person would"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3045.484,"endTime":3050.644,"body":"tell you what I did to you, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3050.644,"endTime":3052.354,"body":"not a better person, so I'm not gonna,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3053.354,"endTime":3055.304,"body":"She has the option to learn it all."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3055.304,"endTime":3055.874,"body":"She chooses"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3055.994,"endTime":3056.804,"body":"And she chooses not"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3056.924,"endTime":3058.394,"body":"Carrie respects that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3059.394,"endTime":3059.694,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3059.694,"endTime":3064.324,"body":"No, they, they, they you know, they"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3059.694,"endTime":3064.324,"body":"fully respect the decision she makes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3064.694,"endTime":3067.154,"body":"And they would've if she decided"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3064.694,"endTime":3067.154,"body":"to keep her heart as well."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3067.404,"endTime":3070.164,"body":"But yeah, they, they aren't"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3067.404,"endTime":3070.164,"body":"going to tell her ever."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3070.899,"endTime":3072.999,"body":"And the fact that that"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3070.899,"endTime":3072.999,"body":"benefits them is just gravy."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3073.644,"endTime":3073.764,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3073.824,"endTime":3074.994,"body":"They're not a better person."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3075.084,"endTime":3076.704,"body":"They, they are not the better person."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3078.034,"endTime":3079.474,"body":"are better than Lysander."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3079.474,"endTime":3079.984,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3080.194,"endTime":3080.644,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3080.689,"endTime":3082.219,"body":"But that's such a low bar."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3083.219,"endTime":3085.229,"body":"The bar's low, but yes,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3083.219,"endTime":3085.229,"body":"they are better than."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3086.229,"endTime":3089.599,"body":"so the ending of this"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3086.229,"endTime":3089.599,"body":"book is quite open-ended."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3090.029,"endTime":3095.109,"body":"Was that always the case or did you"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3090.029,"endTime":3095.109,"body":"ever have a version where the end with"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3095.109,"endTime":3098.919,"body":"more concrete except didn't include"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3095.109,"endTime":3098.919,"body":"concrete as we have talked about?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3099.144,"endTime":3100.164,"body":"Yes, no concrete."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3100.574,"endTime":3106.294,"body":"There was a version where Carrie"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3100.574,"endTime":3106.294,"body":"and dies permanently and it was more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3107.284,"endTime":3113.824,"body":"lu as than Ziane being forced to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3107.284,"endTime":3113.824,"body":"take up their mantle and carry on."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3113.994,"endTime":3118.427,"body":"And I ended up not doing that because I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3113.994,"endTime":3118.427,"body":"was like, nah, I don't wanna kill them."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3119.342,"endTime":3121.187,"body":"Despite the really"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3119.342,"endTime":3121.187,"body":"good pun you just made."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3122.072,"endTime":3122.522,"body":"Yeah, I know."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3123.502,"endTime":3126.136,"body":"but so  that was a potential version."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3126.186,"endTime":3131.926,"body":"There was also a potential idea"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3126.186,"endTime":3131.926,"body":"ending of like doing like a time skip"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3131.926,"endTime":3136.546,"body":"epilogue where we find out more about"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3131.926,"endTime":3136.546,"body":"how like terraforming has happened."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3136.546,"endTime":3139.306,"body":"But then I was like I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3136.546,"endTime":3139.306,"body":"don't, I don't like that."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3139.426,"endTime":3141.616,"body":"Also, the book was getting"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3139.426,"endTime":3141.616,"body":"long enough as it was."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3141.616,"endTime":3144.506,"body":"So that was definitely out"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3141.616,"endTime":3144.506,"body":"just for economy of words."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3144.756,"endTime":3151.462,"body":"But it, I felt like the open-ended"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3144.756,"endTime":3151.462,"body":"ending was a good way to end a book"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3151.522,"endTime":3156.082,"body":"where so much of the world building and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3151.522,"endTime":3156.082,"body":"plot revolves around the characters not"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3156.082,"endTime":3158.122,"body":"actually knowing how the world works."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3158.502,"endTime":3161.982,"body":"I thought that giving too"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3158.502,"endTime":3161.982,"body":"many concrete answers at the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3161.982,"endTime":3164.109,"body":"end wouldn't fit in as well."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3164.109,"endTime":3170.319,"body":"Thematically with the overall lack of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3164.109,"endTime":3170.319,"body":"knowledge of, you know, what lies beyond."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3171.319,"endTime":3173.244,"body":"So don't tell us, but."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3174.069,"endTime":3177.339,"body":"Do you know then what they see"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3174.069,"endTime":3177.339,"body":"when those doors open and they"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3177.339,"endTime":3179.146,"body":"find out like what happens?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3179.486,"endTime":3180.116,"body":"I have no idea."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3180.596,"endTime":3180.866,"body":"I have no"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3180.986,"endTime":3181.256,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3182.246,"endTime":3182.846,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3182.906,"endTime":3185.636,"body":"I mean, I, you know, eventually"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3182.906,"endTime":3185.636,"body":"the planet gets terraformed."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3186.026,"endTime":3189.776,"body":"Eventually the Astro die out because"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3186.026,"endTime":3189.776,"body":"it can't make any more astro."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3190.286,"endTime":3192.986,"body":"And you know, even though they"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3190.286,"endTime":3192.986,"body":"are functionally immortal, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3192.986,"endTime":3194.336,"body":"know, things can still kill them."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3194.736,"endTime":3198.432,"body":"So, you know, eventually the planet"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3194.736,"endTime":3198.432,"body":"becomes fully terraformed and habitable"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3198.722,"endTime":3200.552,"body":"and eventually the Astros are all gone."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3200.552,"endTime":3202.562,"body":"But that's so far down the line."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3202.862,"endTime":3206.162,"body":"Probably when they open the door, they"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3202.862,"endTime":3206.162,"body":"see exactly what was what left behind."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3206.632,"endTime":3208.642,"body":"Because terraforming"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3206.632,"endTime":3208.642,"body":"doesn't work instantly."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3209.032,"endTime":3210.052,"body":"It's not that fast."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3210.342,"endTime":3214.572,"body":"For all of the mystery at the"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3210.342,"endTime":3214.572,"body":"end, it still definitely felt optimistic."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3215.112,"endTime":3215.982,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3216.102,"endTime":3219.852,"body":"heroes have accomplished"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3216.102,"endTime":3219.852,"body":"their goal, like they are successful."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3220.132,"endTime":3222.652,"body":"And now it's just a matter of"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3220.132,"endTime":3222.652,"body":"seeing what that actually means."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3223.652,"endTime":3224.792,"body":"Yeah, I did not."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3225.032,"endTime":3227.222,"body":"I think that was, again, one of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3225.032,"endTime":3227.222,"body":"the reasons why I decided not to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3227.222,"endTime":3230.012,"body":"end it with Carrie and dying is"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3227.222,"endTime":3230.012,"body":"'cause I, I didn't want to end it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3230.012,"endTime":3232.892,"body":"on a depressing note, there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3230.012,"endTime":3232.892,"body":"of depressing shit in this book."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3232.892,"endTime":3234.692,"body":"I didn't wanna end it on a sad note too."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3235.352,"endTime":3237.932,"body":"I wanted to end it with"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3235.352,"endTime":3237.932,"body":"a little spark of hope."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3238.112,"endTime":3240.842,"body":"You know, you're going into the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3238.112,"endTime":3240.842,"body":"unknown, but it's not all fear."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3241.842,"endTime":3247.062,"body":"I mean, even when you think like,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3241.842,"endTime":3247.062,"body":"yeah, Lucia does outlive her family, but"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3247.062,"endTime":3249.912,"body":"her family like lives long and prospers."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3250.722,"endTime":3252.192,"body":"They don't like die tragically."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3252.642,"endTime":3256.362,"body":"Yeah, she missed it, but it's not like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3252.642,"endTime":3256.362,"body":"oh, she was gone and then they were all"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3256.362,"endTime":3258.252,"body":"killed by an ax murderer or whatever."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3258.252,"endTime":3260.822,"body":"Like they live out long, happy lives."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3261.087,"endTime":3262.709,"body":"I mean, it's a, a tragedy for her."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3262.709,"endTime":3266.699,"body":"It's not necessarily a tragedy"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3262.709,"endTime":3266.699,"body":"for them in that sense."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3267.699,"endTime":3269.109,"body":"Yeah, I mean, obviously, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3267.699,"endTime":3269.109,"body":"know, they would go through the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3269.109,"endTime":3272.469,"body":"tragedy of losing a family member that"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3269.109,"endTime":3272.469,"body":"they care about, but they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3272.649,"endTime":3277.129,"body":"be going through the same degree of"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3272.649,"endTime":3277.129,"body":"abandonment tragedy that she does."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3278.129,"endTime":3281.519,"body":"Well, I think that about wraps"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3278.129,"endTime":3281.519,"body":"up what we have for you this evening."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3281.909,"endTime":3283.409,"body":"Thank you so much for joining us."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3283.409,"endTime":3284.429,"body":"It has been a delight."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3284.459,"endTime":3285.599,"body":"Loved the book."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3286.704,"endTime":3290.334,"body":"can't wait to hear what crazy"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3286.704,"endTime":3290.334,"body":"thing you have for us next."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3291.006,"endTime":3298.427,"body":"So I got so tentatively, tentatively"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3291.006,"endTime":3298.427,"body":"I'm, I'm still in the process of pitching"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3298.427,"endTime":3303.197,"body":"it to my agent, even though she sounds"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3298.427,"endTime":3303.197,"body":"enthusiastic, potentially a lit RPG."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3303.812,"endTime":3303.992,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3304.992,"endTime":3306.072,"body":"I love video games."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3306.072,"endTime":3307.452,"body":"I love lit RPGs."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3307.662,"endTime":3312.222,"body":"I have been a fan of them for like,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3307.662,"endTime":3312.222,"body":"easily over a decade, except mostly"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3312.222,"endTime":3316.902,"body":"it's been like manga and man and"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3312.222,"endTime":3316.902,"body":"light novels and anime and stuff."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3317.142,"endTime":3319.872,"body":"It's only very recently come to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3317.142,"endTime":3319.872,"body":"the West, so I'm like, yes, let"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3319.872,"endTime":3322.302,"body":"me write a lit. RPGI love them."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3322.302,"endTime":3323.712,"body":"I love video games."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3323.712,"endTime":3325.662,"body":"I play them a completely normal amount."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3326.082,"endTime":3329.022,"body":"yeah, so Lid, our pt,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3326.082,"endTime":3329.022,"body":"hopefully, fingers crossed."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3329.772,"endTime":3330.822,"body":"That's exciting."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3331.212,"endTime":3334.692,"body":"And I am still living in hope for"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3331.212,"endTime":3334.692,"body":"a sequel to the Hunter's Gambit."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3334.872,"endTime":3337.902,"body":"I don't know if that's gonna happen,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3334.872,"endTime":3337.902,"body":"but I, I'm living in hope still."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3338.402,"endTime":3339.152,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3339.575,"endTime":3344.965,"body":"Hypothetically, hypothetically if, you"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3339.575,"endTime":3344.965,"body":"know, I got offered a chance to do like a"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3344.965,"endTime":3350.755,"body":"sequel to Hunter's Gambit, but it wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3344.965,"endTime":3350.755,"body":"be a thing like you know, what I have"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3350.755,"endTime":3353.105,"body":"planned in my head I would just not do it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3353.105,"endTime":3354.185,"body":"I would just not take that deal."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3354.405,"endTime":3357.645,"body":"'cause for me, it's more important"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3354.405,"endTime":3357.645,"body":"to treat the work as I think it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3357.645,"endTime":3360.855,"body":"should be treated and do what I"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3357.645,"endTime":3360.855,"body":"think is best for the world and the"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3360.855,"endTime":3363.865,"body":"characters and the narrative than it"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3360.855,"endTime":3363.865,"body":"is for me to just produce a sequel."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3364.825,"endTime":3365.245,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3365.455,"endTime":3366.835,"body":"that's absolutely valid."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3366.835,"endTime":3369.865,"body":"I respect that, and I hope"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3366.835,"endTime":3369.865,"body":"that you get the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3369.865,"endTime":3371.095,"body":"write the sequel that you want."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3371.569,"endTime":3373.959,"body":"Yeah, I've, I've definitely"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3371.569,"endTime":3373.959,"body":"gotten a lot of comments from people"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3373.959,"endTime":3376.209,"body":"about, you know, hoping through a sequel"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3376.419,"endTime":3376.689,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3376.779,"endTime":3378.429,"body":"I mean, it's, it's a standalone book."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3378.459,"endTime":3379.539,"body":"It doesn't need a sequel."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3379.539,"endTime":3380.559,"body":"I just want one."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3381.069,"endTime":3381.999,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3382.179,"endTime":3383.469,"body":"I mean, I do too, right?"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3383.469,"endTime":3384.639,"body":"I, I love vampires."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3384.639,"endTime":3386.439,"body":"Let me write more vampires, like, come on."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3386.529,"endTime":3387.069,"body":"Come on, man."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3388.069,"endTime":3389.839,"body":"Well, is this book out?"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3389.839,"endTime":3391.009,"body":"I should have looked that up before we"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3391.114,"endTime":3393.574,"body":"This book comes out"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3391.114,"endTime":3393.574,"body":"on the 23rd of September."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3393.574,"endTime":3398.074,"body":"So we are recording on the 17th,"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3393.574,"endTime":3398.074,"body":"which means it comes out next week."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3398.074,"endTime":3400.644,"body":"But for listeners it's"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3398.074,"endTime":3400.644,"body":"presumably already out."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3400.644,"endTime":3401.184,"body":"Go buy it."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3401.514,"endTime":3402.474,"body":"It Yes."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3402.834,"endTime":3403.194,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3403.224,"endTime":3405.144,"body":"Yeah, it came out yesterday, guys."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3405.394,"endTime":3406.774,"body":"We're reporting from the future."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3406.774,"endTime":3408.184,"body":"It came out yesterday."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3408.234,"endTime":3409.014,"body":"Go purchase it."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3409.014,"endTime":3412.074,"body":"It's available anywhere books"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3409.014,"endTime":3412.074,"body":"are sold, including the internet,"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3412.809,"endTime":3413.229,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3413.244,"endTime":3414.894,"body":"which is where most"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3413.244,"endTime":3414.894,"body":"books are sold these days."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3414.939,"endTime":3415.209,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3416.209,"endTime":3420.469,"body":"And if someone wants to follow you"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3416.209,"endTime":3420.469,"body":"for updates on maybe future projects"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3420.469,"endTime":3423.654,"body":"or whatever you're doing, can you"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3420.469,"endTime":3423.654,"body":"plug your, your website social"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3424.009,"endTime":3424.249,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3424.299,"endTime":3430.159,"body":"I am on Blue Sky at Ciel Pierlot"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3424.299,"endTime":3430.159,"body":"which is, I, I'm very, very basic."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3430.159,"endTime":3431.419,"body":"My name is all my handles."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3431.759,"endTime":3432.599,"body":"I'm at Blue Sky."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3432.599,"endTime":3436.309,"body":"I predominantly post more"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3432.599,"endTime":3436.309,"body":"business-y stuff there."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3436.369,"endTime":3438.079,"body":"So announcements, for example."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3438.559,"endTime":3441.089,"body":"I'm also on Instagram"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3438.559,"endTime":3441.089,"body":"also at Ciel Pierlot."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3441.109,"endTime":3444.019,"body":"I post a lot more promotional stuff there."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3444.229,"endTime":3447.829,"body":"I post more stuff about my own life"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3444.229,"endTime":3447.829,"body":"there, you know, the occasional story."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3448.229,"endTime":3452.459,"body":"So Instagram is a better place to"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3448.229,"endTime":3452.459,"body":"find me if you want more personal"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3452.459,"endTime":3454.319,"body":"stuff, more cool pretty pictures."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3454.659,"endTime":3458.589,"body":"Blue Sky is a better place to find me if"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3454.659,"endTime":3458.589,"body":"you just want the business highlights."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3458.949,"endTime":3463.169,"body":"And then I have my website, which is also"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3458.949,"endTime":3463.169,"body":"conveniently enough, cielpierlot.com."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3463.229,"endTime":3468.029,"body":"And mostly what I have there is"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3463.229,"endTime":3468.029,"body":"summaries of my work where you can find"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3468.029,"endTime":3470.219,"body":"my work, reviews, that sort of thing."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3471.089,"endTime":3471.959,"body":"That is where I am."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3471.959,"endTime":3472.769,"body":"That is what is there."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3473.104,"endTime":3473.594,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3473.864,"endTime":3474.614,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3475.014,"endTime":3475.704,"body":"Thank you for having"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3475.704,"endTime":3475.914,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3476.031,"endTime":3477.954,"body":"This has been as always a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3478.194,"endTime":3478.524,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3478.614,"endTime":3480.564,"body":"I always love coming"},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3478.614,"endTime":3480.564,"body":"on your guys' podcast."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3480.564,"endTime":3481.314,"body":"Thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Ciel","startTime":3481.314,"endTime":3481.914,"body":"And hopefully I'll."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3482.619,"endTime":3483.399,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3487.684,"endTime":3491.034,"body":"Thank you so much for listening"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3487.684,"endTime":3491.034,"body":"to this episode of Fiction Fans."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3491.484,"endTime":3492.864,"body":"Come disagree with us!"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3493.164,"endTime":3496.424,"body":"We're on BlueSky and"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3493.164,"endTime":3496.424,"body":"Instagram at fictionfanspod."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3496.734,"endTime":3500.194,"body":"You can also email us at"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3496.734,"endTime":3500.194,"body":"fictionfanspod at gmail."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3500.224,"endTime":3502.464,"body":"com or leave a comment on YouTube."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3502.994,"endTime":3506.434,"body":"If you enjoyed the episode,"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3502.994,"endTime":3506.434,"body":"please rate and review on Spotify"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3506.454,"endTime":3509.804,"body":"and Apple Podcasts, and follow"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3506.454,"endTime":3509.804,"body":"us wherever your podcasts live."},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3510.549,"endTime":3514.049,"body":"We also have a Patreon, where"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3510.549,"endTime":3514.049,"body":"you can support us and find exclusive"},{"speaker":"Lilly","startTime":3514.049,"endTime":3516.519,"body":"episodes and a lot of other nonsense."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3516.934,"endTime":3520.394,"body":"Thanks again for listening, and"},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3516.934,"endTime":3520.394,"body":"may your villains always be defeated."},{"speaker":"Sara","startTime":3520.859,"endTime":3521.489,"body":"Bye!"}]}