One Message Remains by Premee Mohamed

Your hosts discuss Premee Mohamed's latest collection of stories, "One Message Remains," and praise its evocative writing and strong character development. They explore the book's themes of colonization, exploitation, and war, and discuss how the fantasy setting reflects real-world issues. They also appreciate the collection's progression from plot-driven to introspective storytelling, and the portrayal of resistance against oppressive system.

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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

Transcript

Lilly 0:00

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily.

Sara 0:07

And I'm Sarah, and today we will be talking about One Message Remains, which is Primi Muhammad's latest collection of stories.

Lilly 0:16

I did just go through a crisis there where I was like, are you gonna say novellas? Are you gonna say short stories? I don't know. I feel like the first one's kind of a novella and then the Other ones are shorter.

Sara 0:26

Yeah, I think the first one counts as a novella. I mean, I don't actually know the lengths of anything, but I don't think they are all novella length.

Lilly 0:33

No.

Sara 0:35

But they're not all short story length, either.

Lilly 0:37

No. Collection of stories, it's a good way to get around it.

Sara 0:41

Yes.

Lilly 0:43

But before we get into that, there's always something good that happened, isn't there?

Sara 0:49

Yes. And my good thing is that my daffodils have finally started blooming.

Lilly 0:53

It's DAF season for you!

Sara 0:55

It's daff season. Yeah. So I have some really gorgeous daffodils. I have another bunch that have not started blooming yet, but the first flower had just started opening up this morning. So they're going to be blooming shortly.

Lilly 1:11

That's so

Sara 1:12

Let me, let me send you a picture.

Lilly 1:14

I have the The daffs have started coming up, but they don't actually have buds yet, so I think I'm still a couple weeks out. Which makes sense that I'm behind you a little bit on that. daffodils are my favorite. Ooh, hello discord. Oh, that's my favorite kind too, where it's orange on the inside and white on the outside.

Sara 1:35

Yeah. They're so pretty.

Lilly 1:37

Daffodils are my favorite fucking flower of all time. I love them so much.

Sara 1:41

I don't know if I would say they're my favorite. But I think that I need to plant more of them.

Lilly 1:47

I love them. And especially that where you get the two different tones. The ones that are all yellow are, like, fine.

Sara 1:53

I don't like the all yellow ones. I mean, yeah, they're fine,

Lilly 1:57

as much as I hate yellow tulips, though. If you're gonna have a yellow flower, do a daffodil! It

Sara 2:03

I don't hate yellow tulips. I just think that, like, all yellow flowers are, I don't know, usually boring. At least when it comes to that flower shape. Like, I do like yellow ranunculus, for example. And yellow roses are okay, although they're not my favorite. But it's just something about the multi tone.

Lilly 2:24

works so well for daffodils. Yeah, agreed. Completely. Well,

Sara 2:30

that is probably very boring to you, our listener, because you can't see the picture that I sent Lily. Sorry.

Lilly 2:37

It's a daffodil! You know what daffodils look like. and my good thing? It was gonna be that I finished darning one of your pairs of socks, but I have since misplaced it. I mean, I did still finish it, but I can't show it off to you triumphantly. You'll just have to know in your heart that I did it.

Sara 2:53

I, the, the part of me that is connected to these holey socks knows that it's been

Lilly 2:59

Yes. It's good I've embarked on my ridiculous Dracula movie adaptation journey. And I like having something to do with my hands while I'm watching TV or whatever, so

Sara 3:13

I knit for that same reason.

Lilly 3:15

that was good. are you drinking today?

Sara 3:19

I have some black tea. It is French breakfast tea from Mariage Frere. It's very nice.

Lilly 3:29

I assume that's similar to but slightly different from English breakfast tea.

Sara 3:34

Yes. It's not, I mean, I don't actually know what's in this because I just have the teabag and I don't have. A, like, case. it's a teabag that was given to me. It's not something that I own. But, it's a little less strong, I think, than English Breakfast Tea, and slightly more floral, but not in a way that I dislike.

Lilly 3:58

Oh, you and I are just never going to agree on that. That's okay.

Sara 4:02

we're not. That's fine.

Lilly 4:04

I am drinking coffee with a little bit of oat milk in it. It's very nice, it's warm and caffeinated.

Sara 4:12

Also good.

Lilly 4:13

very good things. Have you read anything else lately? I sure haven't.

Sara 4:20

I am intending to embark on a Star Wars reading journey with a friend of mine.

Lilly 4:27

Oh, like the nov or I always get this wrong. They're not novelizations. They're

Sara 4:33

Extended universe.

Lilly 4:34

yeah. Because novelization implies that it's the same story as was on the screen.

Sara 4:38

Yes, correct. Yes, so obviously there are a lot of Star Wars books and there are books that were published before Disney got control of Star Wars and that are now considered not canon. Like, they were canon, but then Disney took over and said they are not canon. As opposed to what Disney says are the canon books. We are starting with the not canon books, there's like 500 gazillion of them. I don't know how long my motivation to read these will last, but I'm doing it with a friend who's very excited. And I really enjoyed the I went to Disneyland right after Galley, and the Star Wars section of Disneyland was really fucking cool.

Lilly 5:25

I'm still mad they changed Star Tours.

Sara 5:28

I don't know what Star Tours was.

Lilly 5:31

It was Star Wars. It's still Star Wars, but they, like, upgraded it, or updated it. Anyway, it's fine.

Sara 5:37

I still don't, I mean, I still don't know what, what, like, where is that ride?

Lilly 5:42

Star Tours was I mean, it's in that same area. It's the one where you, like, sit in a room, and it's like you're in a spaceship, but you're just watching a movie and, like, the seats shake. When the ship gets hit and there's like a funny tour guide animatronic guy.

Sara 5:57

That was not one that we went to.

Lilly 5:59

Well, it's a classic. And they changed it. But we're not here to talk about Star Wars. We are, in fact, here to talk about One Message Remains by Primi Muhammad. And, Sarah, I think we've agreed upon this before, but she is our, one of our auto buy authors,

Sara 6:17

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Every I have read by this point, a fair amount of her work, not nearly everything that she's published because she is incredibly prolific. We've covered a couple of her stuff on the podcast and I've read some of it just for personal reading and I have loved every single thing that she writes just because her use of language is so evocative. And she, she just puts together a sentence really, really well.

Lilly 6:44

Absolutely the best prose, I think. I'll say some of the best prose. I'll hedge that a little bit. But I cannot think off the top of my head someone that I think even gets close.

Sara 6:57

Yeah, I mean, she is just a top tier writer. And I, I really enjoyed this collection for that reason.

Lilly 7:06

As always, yeah, great, great prose which makes the reading experience enjoyable, even when the stories themselves stress me out.

Sara 7:15

Yes.

Lilly 7:16

I, I do think that this was not the right time for me to read this collection, just like, in general.

Sara 7:24

I mean, I will grant you that world events, things that are happening in the U. S. government make reading about a country that's perpetually at war because it's trying to expand its borders all of the time and thinks that it's always right. It's maybe a little bit too much bleed over.

Lilly 7:43

Yeah, right? This was not an example of I love reading stressful books because it distracts me from real world stuff. This did not distract me from real world stuff.

Sara 7:55

No. But, like you say, Muhammad's writing is just so good that I loved it despite that.

Lilly 8:03

Yeah, and the plots that she puts together and the characters that she introduces us to are still, like, really incredible, just in this case, a lot.

Sara 8:14

Yes.

Lilly 8:16

Honestly, I think I've really sabotaged myself with her writing because the first thing I read of hers was The apple tree throne, which is like, kind of cute. And now every time I read a story, I'm like, Are they gonna kiss? No kissing.

Sara 8:35

That's true. I do think the Apple Tree Throne is a lot sweeter in many respects than anything else that we've read of hers. I really want to read, I read the first book of this just for myself. But she has a Lovecraftian trilogy. Like Cosmic Horror Trilogy, and I really enjoyed book one and I keep meaning to, like, add it to the podcast schedule, and we just never It never ends up happening. But I think that you would really enjoy it.

Lilly 9:07

I mean. Evidence suggests that yes, I would. Well,

Sara 9:14

but also because of the setting and the, the world and the concepts and stuff like that. As I was reading it, I was like, this is a Lily book, but we're not talking about that book either.

Lilly 9:26

this collection did a really fun thing where all of the different stories are sort of taking place in the same setting, the same geopolitical events, although from, you know, different sides or different aspects of the conflict. And

Sara 9:44

And potentially different time periods too.

Lilly 9:47

yeah, unclear.

Sara 9:49

Yeah, I didn't really pay much attention to the passing of time in that sense, necessarily. But you do get, it's. Like you say there's this country that's perpetually at war. And these stories deal with things related to that.

Lilly 10:06

And so Seeing that world unfold piece after piece was a really enjoyable experience. We start with the first one that was the longest. I think the first story is like 50 percent of the

Sara 10:21

Yeah, it's, about half of the, half of the page

Lilly 10:24

And then there's three more stories. Yeah. So we get like a pretty good deep dive into the perspective of a very loyal member of this team. And sort of unpacking that for him. We also get the first, I wouldn't even say hints of fantasy, but uh, I mean this world is definitely fantasy, but it feels like the plot deals so much with real world themes, it almost feels unfair to call it fantasy.

Sara 10:58

Yeah I would agree with that. I feel

Lilly 11:01

I mean it's not wrong, it's definitely, like, there's magic.

Sara 11:05

yeah, there's magic, there's also kind of science. But it does deal with very relevant real world themes like colonization and atrocities of war, what that does to people, how you can push back on them, like how people do push back and, and how people don't, can't see that they're in the wrong.

Lilly 11:30

Mhmm.

Sara 11:31

So it, it did feel very relevant and real world.

Lilly 11:36

If we're going to use my Pillars of Genre Theory. The setting does absolutely have SFF elements to it, but the plot is all very literary. That's a bad genre title is the problem.

Sara 11:54

I mean, you could take the SFF elements out of the story and the plot would fit in a modern setting.

Lilly 12:05

Yeah, it would just be way less fun to read.

Sara 12:08

Yeah, I mean, it would be a different story, but the plot itself is not necessarily

Lilly 12:13

the first one at least, I

Sara 12:15

yeah.

Lilly 12:17

the additional elements that we get sort of added in the stories as we go Brings it more and more into that sort of fantasy space. And some, I don't know, okay, do you think a gallows made out of human bones is fantasy? Technically not, but also, yeah?

Sara 12:37

Right, I mean, yes, yes it is, but the gallows made out of human bones is not necessarily The plot in a, like, building, building a gallows is not fantasy.

Lilly 12:54

right,

Sara 12:55

So, yes, I think that the, the setting gets progressively more and more fantasy. And I think the fourth story, the general's turn, like, you can't divorce that from the fantasy at all. The plot of that one is definitely firmly fantasy too.

Lilly 13:11

mm

Sara 13:12

But I think the first three, you could lift them out into a modern day story and have the same plots.

Lilly 13:20

I Muhammad's work deals with the human element, so Distinctly. That it makes it I don't want to say relevant, but transferable in that way. Because it's about the people so much more than do some dope demon hunting or something.

Sara 13:38

yeah, it's, her, her stories, particularly in, in this collection, are very character focused and character driven.

Lilly 13:47

It felt like the order in which these were written. I think it was super interesting to start with a character that is fully bought in to, oh shoot, what was the, is it Treya, Treyatowin? That's not quite, quite right. Treyatown is the name of the country.

Sara 14:06

Yes.

Lilly 14:08

To start with a character who begins fully on board, like he's very loyal to his country although he does go through growth of understanding.

Sara 14:17

and he thinks that he's doing the right thing. Like, the war is over. He is trying to, with his squad dig up the remains of the fallen enemy soldiers so that they can be categorized and, and sent back to their relatives. And everything is varied by the books, according to Traoton, but not at all, according to. The country that they have just, you know, rough, roughshod, trod all over.

Lilly 14:49

In that sense, it's about culture clash, right? Trayotan considers one way of dealing with human remains to be respectful and the people who they are inflicting that upon have a very different way of dealing with their loved one's remains. And so that, like, refusal to acknowledge someone else's perspective. Although, I am a little suspicious, because they weren't just digging up the bones to catalog and return to their families. They're also using a crazy sci fi gun to suck the souls out of the bones to use for power?

Sara 15:27

It sounds like they did that for their own dead too, though.

Lilly 15:31

Absolutely, absolutely. But then you do have to wonder how much of this, custom is. to allow for that exploitation.

Sara 15:44

True.

Lilly 15:45

I mean, you can't, like, untangle those. I would have to be a anthropologist of this country that doesn't exist to give you a good answer. But I think that was at least a wink wink, nudge nudge. Because what we learn about Trayotan is they're super exploitative and not great. So I think there's a hint there of like, the main character honestly believes he's doing it for the right reasons, but

Sara 16:10

I mean, I, I absolutely don't think that, that Trayton is doing it for the right reasons. And they don't, they don't care whatsoever that they're trampling over the customs of the people that they have just. You know, invaded because they want their power and they're going to get it. But our main character does think that he's doing the right thing and trying to be respectful of, of. The people that he's digging up,

Lilly 16:36

hmm,

Sara 16:37

and the fact that he's actually not being respect respectful at all is, like, that never crosses his mind. He is doing the right thing because it's the Traotan way.

Lilly 16:47

hmm. It, it makes him a bearable character, I would say. I mean it's, it's hard being in his head because he is so Like, in line with the Tray o ton propaganda. But at least he doesn't get what he's doing. You know, he's not a caricature. Mohammed's work also is always so good about never having, like, a cartoon villain.

Sara 17:17

Right, all of her characters are always nuanced.

Lilly 17:19

hmm. They consider themselves justified. And, like, you can follow their logic, even if from the outside you can go, But, maybe not. Maybe don't do that. So we get this Like, I would say a very in depth look at, I can't remember his name to save the life of me, but the main character in One Message remains.

Sara 17:41

It is Major Zajos, T Z A J O S.

Lilly 17:47

Him.

Sara 17:49

The Major.

Lilly 17:50

As sort of our introduction to this collection. And then, the other three stories are from perspectives that are not on board with Tray O Ton in the same way. And so I thought that was a very interesting way of sort of formatting the collection as a whole. introducing us to this conflict from their side, basically, and then sort of unpacking all of the awful shit they do.

Sara 18:19

I mean, the general is not necessarily on the Trayton side in the final story.

Lilly 18:29

That's true. I guess, yeah, quibbling

Sara 18:30

in his head,

Lilly 18:31

character is there. Sure.

Sara 18:34

But, I, we can quibble over whether or not he's the main character, but he is the perspective character.

Lilly 18:40

fair enough. I just, I really loved. Did you have a favorite? Mine was definitely Forsaking All Others.

Sara 18:47

I think mine maybe was The general's turn, actually, because it was a little bit weirder

Lilly 18:58

Mm hmm.

Sara 18:59

than the others, like, kind of offbeat, but still dark and nuanced and thoughtful about the themes that it dealt with,

Lilly 19:13

Mm hmm.

Sara 19:15

but they were, they were all good.

Lilly 19:17

It, that one felt like it was the most, I'm gonna say existential. That's not really the right word for it. you know, when we start in the first story, it's very concrete. There's a narrative path. The characters are taking actions on the page. And then, They sort of get more, see I don't want to say thoughtful because they're all thoughtful, but like the the story itself

Sara 19:42

I feel like that story is more, The General's Turn is more, there's a word that I'm looking for.

Lilly 19:51

it just more abstract? Is that the word I'm looking for?

Sara 19:55

Maybe, it's, it's definitely more not introspective, but like

Lilly 20:00

The

Sara 20:00

the heads of the characters.

Lilly 20:03

I feel like the prose itself spends more time philosophizing whereas in One Message Remains There is absolutely a philosophical concept that Premi Muhammad is trying to get across to the reader. But it's more of a show don't tell kind of situation. Whereas, by the last story, it is the story itself that is kind of pontificating and exploring these themes.

Sara 20:31

yeah

Lilly 20:32

and I do feel like that sort of goes, through these works, you get a little bit more of that each time.

Sara 20:38

yes, I agree. And I did like that progression a lot. I thought it meant, it, I thought it made for a really interesting reading experience.

Lilly 20:48

And it is really helpful, you know, to make it accessible to the reader.

Sara 20:55

Yes, that too!

Lilly 20:57

Dropping you into a fantasy setting that, where you're philosophizing about the nature of death, etc, etc From the outset, I think would be a lot. Whereas in this case, Mohammed kind of holds your hand and is like, First, I will introduce you to what's happening, and then we can get to the cool stuff.

Sara 21:16

It's interesting because I believe The General's Turn was first published as a short story in a magazine.

Lilly 21:24

wild. Choosing to put it at the end of this collection makes so much sense to me.

Sara 21:30

Yeah, it was, I'm pretty sure it was published elsewhere first. It was published in the Deadlands, and I think it's the only one that was previously published of these stories.

Lilly 21:44

Bonkers.

Sara 21:46

But I do feel like the reading experience, and obviously I didn't read it in the Deadlands when it was originally published. But I do feel like the reading experience of it, for me, was deeper because I had the context of the previous stories, and Knew a little more about the world and the setting. Even if the characters were completely different. But just that, like, world context? I feel like that helped.

Lilly 22:19

Yeah, I have to imagine it would have. And it, like, it is metaphorical enough that you can. engage with it without having the background knowledge of the rest of the collection. But

Sara 22:30

absolutely. But you just get that, that additional layer.

Lilly 22:35

yeah, I, hmm, if I had known that, I would have said that one of us should have read it first, just to see, like, how that affected the reading experience. A little test, if you will.

Sara 22:47

Womp

Lilly 22:48

too late now. Can't unring that bell.

Sara 22:52

Give it to your husband to read.

Lilly 22:55

Honey, I have some homework for you.

Sara 22:57

It's good homework.

Lilly 22:59

is. He's been working his way through Discworld, which has been really fun. For me, personally. And also him. Okay, so, who should read this collection? If you appreciate gorgeous prose, And if you have the emotional bandwidth to deal with concepts like colonization and war and exploitation,

Sara 23:24

Yeah. I don't have anything to add there.

Lilly 23:27

yeah.

Sara 23:28

I mean, everyone should read this book because Prima Mohammed is an incredible author, but it does deal with really heavy themes, so if you're not in the headspace for it, save it for later.

Lilly 23:38

Read it during a good week, not a bad week.

Sara 23:42

Yes.

Lilly 23:43

Zero escapism, I think, is my official stamp for this collection.

Sara 23:48

Read it instead of the news. This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Fiction Fans.

Lilly 23:54

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Sara 24:01

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Lilly 24:08

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Sara 24:16

The remainder of this episode contains spoilers. Although, I'm not really sure how I mean, I guess short stories and novellas can be spoiled. But

Lilly 24:29

of course they can be spoiled. It's just usually when we talk about collections, we keep it kind of high level and talk about the collection as a whole. Which I think makes sense when it's a lot of short stories, because doing a deep dive into any of the short stories would just be, it's just a lot.

Sara 24:47

it's a lot. Yeah.

Lilly 24:48

this is four different stories. We can get a little more in depth about those, I think.

Sara 24:53

And they, they also are all related to each other, which I think helps for the sake of discussion.

Lilly 24:58

absolutely. So, one message remains. includes some absolute gems of a line, propaganda line, for example. Why did they not simply lie down and accept Trahoton? As an example of how the main character starts and his full loyalty, we'll say.

Sara 25:22

Yeah. The, the major definitely is very patriotic to the point of idiocy.

Lilly 25:31

Yeah.

Sara 25:31

would say

Lilly 25:32

That did mean that it was very satisfying to, like, experience his deconstruction over the course of the story.

Sara 25:41

yeah, it was satisfying. I mean, I like, he had it coming, so it was satisfying in that sense, but it was unsettling to see the way that his reading of the last, like, words of these people that they're exhuming and, and turning into. Plasma. Yeah, yeah, ghost, ghost goop. The way that that intrudes into his psyche, and how he doesn't recognize it, but the reader does, and then slowly he starts to realize things, like, it was, it was done very well. I really liked it, and it, it felt right that it happened to him, but it was, it was also unsettling to read.

Lilly 26:34

Well, sure. I really loved Okay, so there are some fantasy worlds where when someone is disbelieving, I find it really stupid. You know what I mean? Like, really? Magic is real, but you don't think that thing is possible?

Sara 26:50

Yes.

Lilly 26:52

Whereas in this story, the Major is basically being haunted by the ghosts of the people whose last resting places he has. violated. And so he's hearing these voices in his head, but he is convinced that it is just stress and lack of sleep. And that did not feel contradictory to me, because of the way these two different cultures handled the ghost goop, just conceptually. The Major and Trayton were like, it's just residual energy we use it to juice up a battery, there's nothing spooky about it. Whereas The counter argument, of course, being, Dude, those are souls. What are you doing?

Sara 27:41

Yeah, it, it felt very in character for him to just brush it off.

Lilly 27:46

Yeah, and that, like, that actually, I think, fit with his character in a way that, like, it not improved his character, obviously, because he sucked, but improved the characterization of him.

Sara 27:59

Yes.

Lilly 27:59

because, like, that, that kind of bullheaded refusal to consider something from someone else's perspective, like, really worked.

Sara 28:11

It was, it was very in line with Trayotan as a whole.

Lilly 28:16

And then he eventually, gets broken. I, it's so interesting that you used the phrase, he deserved it, because I, I don't know, I'm like, yeah, his ending isn't good, but I, I didn't feel that vicious about it.

Sara 28:35

I mean, I actually think he has a very good ending.

Lilly 28:38

Yeah. He has grown so much as a person.

Sara 28:42

Yeah, but, but he only does that because of the experiences he went through. Like, I do think that, that him as a colonizer, essentially, deserves the experience.

Lilly 28:56

Yeah, and like I hadn't thought of it

Sara 28:58

what I mean.

Lilly 28:58

does fit. You're right.

Sara 29:00

Yeah.

Lilly 29:01

It's kind of like the really delightful phrase, couldn't have happened to a better person.

Sara 29:06

Yeah.

Lilly 29:06

Like very, very good double edged sword there.

Sara 29:09

I mean, karma.

Lilly 29:10

Yeah, and there's something so beautiful about forcing him to experience the last moments of Of these people, and having that be the vehicle for him to become more open minded. Like, literally open minded, because his mind has been, like, open to all of these ghosts. I don't know, The first one is so good. The whole thing is so good. We're gonna say that a lot. It's gonna get really old. Sorry.

Sara 29:41

But it will be no less true.

Lilly 29:44

And opening with this one, I just think, sets you up so well for really understanding the mindset of Treyauton and its loyal supporters.

Sara 29:54

Yes, absolutely.

Lilly 29:56

when we get that Was it a general? Whatever the, that awful army dude is in the second story, The Weight of What is Hollow, I don't like him, but I kind of like, have an idea of what's possibly going on in his mind.

Sara 30:13

kernel.

Lilly 30:14

Colonel. Military word!

Sara 30:17

Yeah, I mean, and he's It's pretty terrible, but we don't see as much of it, but, but also, he's terrible in the same way that, like, we saw the Major be terrible, so it feels like all of the military people are just gross and exploitative, and they don't necessarily realize it, but they are.

Lilly 30:41

Aid, if you will.

Sara 30:42

Yes,

Lilly 30:43

It's, putting those two stories back to back, though, I think, like, The colonel is hardly on the page he gets like two pieces of dialogue, he's kind of just a spooky specter antagonist in the background, and we don't get anything from his perspective, but because we just spent so much time in the major's perspective,

Sara 31:09

we don't need the colonels.

Lilly 31:10

yeah, and obviously they're different characters, and even when you think of the Major at the beginning and being very loyal to Trayton, he's still a very different guy from the Colonel.

Sara 31:23

Yeah, I mean, I, I suspect the Major is also a slightly better person than the Colonel, even though he has drunk the Kool Aid. Like, the, the Colonel wants these prisoners of war who are being executed to suffer,

Lilly 31:37

just for entertainment value.

Sara 31:38

just for entertainment value. Like, he's rotten down to his core.

Lilly 31:44

But we don't, so like there's, there's those two separate things, right? Like, genuinely bad person and indoctrinated in a way that is, I'm not gonna say not his fault, but more understandable given the environment he's in.

Sara 31:59

Yeah, I mean, he's, he It's hard to think of yourself as indoctrinated when that's your culture and everyone around you is like that.

Lilly 32:11

We get really, like, explored very thoroughly in One Message Remains, and then we can kind of just carry that over to the Colonel, and just, and then we don't have to spend a whole lot of time establishing that. We can just focus on, oh no, but here's also how he's awful, in just other ways.

Sara 32:30

Yes.

Lilly 32:31

Using his power to make a young woman really uncomfortable and like, kind of hit on her, but not really. It, that whole thing.

Sara 32:40

He's, he's hitting on her with plausible deniability.

Lilly 32:43

Mm hmm.

Sara 32:44

He's just a creep. But I, I really enjoyed The Weight of What is Hollow because it shows the Young woman Taya, I believe her name was pushing back on some of the colonel's cruelties in a way that again is, is plausible deniability. And it's just like, small ways you can frustrate the system.

Lilly 33:09

Without putting yourself in danger, though. I think that was a really, well explored concept in this story. Because our main character doesn't want to do the shitty thing. And her family is like, If you don't do the shitty thing, like, we are going to get punished for it. We agree that it's shitty, but also, like, I don't want to die. And so, kind of going through the process of, How much can she get away with? And yeah, pushing back on a system without exposing yourself.

Sara 33:43

Yeah. And seeing the perspective of people who were conquered by Traoton because the land and their traditions come from a pre Traoton time, which is only like three generations back, but they're there because they're the ones who, you know, surrendered to save theirselves.

Lilly 34:05

And, and the experience then of kind of being complicit, then, because they are helping with these awful things, but out of self preservation. That whole aspect I thought was, was very well done in a very short work. Like, there's a lot happening in this one. and yeah, it was three generations because her grandfather remembered

Sara 34:32

Right.

Lilly 34:32

the, like, pre colonization.

Sara 34:35

Yeah.

Lilly 34:36

Is this the one that you That made you wonder what the timeline stuff was?

Sara 34:43

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily say it was this one specifically, it was just kind of all of them in general. And it's fine that they're some vague nebulous timeline. Like there doesn't, they don't have to have a timeline.

Lilly 34:57

I am just, I did not have that question at all. And maybe I just wasn't reading closely enough. I just assumed they were all happening at the same time. Like, you know, roughly around the same time. And we're just seeing the different stages of previously Conquered peoples within the system, right? So you have in the first story, it's, like, just recently conquered, and in The Weight of What is Hollow, we have, oh, okay, this is what is going on with these people who had been conquered, you know, 50 years ago or whatever, and then, mm hmm, mm

Sara 35:34

That's certainly possible. But because Trayotan is basically always conquering. always expanding its borders. It also doesn't have to be the case.

Lilly 35:48

I know. I just, that question didn't even occur to me,

Sara 35:51

Yeah.

Lilly 35:52

You're right. It does not actually say that that's what it is, but I thought it was.

Sara 35:57

It, it could be. I feel like maybe that's just a, whatever your headcanon is, that's the right answer.

Lilly 36:04

I kind of like my version, though, because if they are constantly expanding their borders, Then at any moment, they are gonna have groups of people in very different stages with very different experiences all happening at the same time.

Sara 36:19

Yes, absolutely.

Lilly 36:21

And that's kind of where I, where I was, thought it was going. Alright, Forsaking All Others was probably my favorite. It's about a deserter of the Trayauton army. And he's trying to get back to his hometown, basically. Not because he thinks they'll save him, but just as like a launching point to figure out what the hell to do next.

Sara 36:42

It's a place to go.

Lilly 36:44

And then we also get interspersed with that, the story being told by his grandmother that we eventually find out is the story she's telling him when he shows up at the end. And so we get kind of their two different arcs, her a lifetime of resistance and him just sort of scrambling to survive in this really awful time.

Sara 37:09

I really enjoyed her sto I mean, I liked both of their stories, but She was really badass. She was great.

Lilly 37:16

She was incredible. And speaking of, like, a continuation from The Weight of What is Hollow, that idea of pushing back against an oppressive system from within it, although she is not within it in the same way as the main character is in The Weight of What is Hollow,

Sara 37:35

she's not as complicit in

Lilly 37:37

right? But she exists in this country and is like, too bad, too bad for you. I think I liked this one the best because it felt the most triumphant.

Sara 37:48

It does feel the most triumphant. I, well, I mean, I still felt that One Message Remains has a very, like, happy ending.

Lilly 37:58

It does for our main character, but like, as far as the overall situation, they're still conquered and trying to deal with Traoton now.

Sara 38:09

I mean, I'd say that's the same thing with forsaking all others.

Lilly 38:13

Yeah, but for yeah, I mean, you're right. They're both fairly optimistic. I just think in forsaking all others, I really wanted the boys to kiss.

Sara 38:23

Except that one of them dies at the

Lilly 38:25

Yeah, I mean, obviously before I got to that point. I'm telling you, I just have been ruined with un realistic expectations of the apple tree throne.

Sara 38:36

Do they even, they don't kiss the apple tree thrown either, though.

Lilly 38:39

But I remember, like, reading it going, they were together?! Twist! Delightful, sweet, romantic twist! And so now I'm like, there's the possibility for all of these stories to have a delightful, sweet, romantic twist, and none of them do. And that's fine. Like, they're good stories. That's not what they're about. But every time I go into it going, But it could be.

Sara 39:04

Will this be the one?

Lilly 39:05

Yeah. No. No, they're not. That's not what these stories are. And I need to stop trying to make it happen. But hope springs eternal, Sarah.

Sara 39:17

But back to, back to forsaking all others. And I feel like it, it does feel more hopeful than One Message Remains because One message remains, the, the bulk of it is a big downer, right? Like, we have the Major who's really a shitty person, although he doesn't recognize that, doing shitty things. And Forsaking All Others, like, our main character, who is this deserter trying to go home, like, he's actively trying to not be shitty.

Lilly 39:52

Mhm. And, like, people are helping him along the way. It's a very much, like, People helping people story, in that way,

Sara 40:02

it feels more collaborative

Lilly 40:05

And then of course his grandmother, who's just like, Oh yeah, also I was a badass rebel and destroyed supply lines during the war.

Sara 40:13

yes, she was great.

Lilly 40:16

an inspiration to us all.

Sara 40:18

Yes, absolutely.

Lilly 40:20

The

Sara 40:20

And then the,

Lilly 40:21

turn.

Sara 40:22

the, the final story was the general's turn, which, like I said, I think was probably my favorite just because of how kind of weird it gets. And it is, again, we have a prisoner of war where this, he's being tried as a war criminal or he's been caught as a war criminal and brought to this kind of sham of a Of a stage play, where if he finds the right, like, path, he can save himself, but no one ever has. And we have the general of the title, who is not narrating the book, but he's, like, speaking with this prisoner. And it's very, like, yeah, just odd and offbeat. And I really liked it.

Lilly 41:16

We also see in Forsaking All Others, Well actually in, okay, death, is who I'm talking about right now.

Sara 41:25

Yes. Death is a person.

Lilly 41:28

yeah, this universe's Grim Reaper, you know, death, personification, entity, is introduced, I mean, obviously, in One Message Remains, they talk about death, but in a very abstract way. And then, we sort of see more and more of her as the stories go on, as well, which I really liked. The moments in Forsaking All Others, where the grandmother is talking about, I think, the two times that she has seen death.

Sara 41:58

Mm hmm.

Lilly 42:00

Like, I really, really loved. And then, this, she's obviously on the page quite a bit more in the General's turn.

Sara 42:07

Yeah.

Lilly 42:08

And so that sort of slow escalation of, Oh, you know, whatever, it's their version of the personification of death, and then, Oh no, she's a lady!

Sara 42:19

Yeah, death is actually a, like, someone that you can see and interact with. And I did like that, I don't know if I would call it a reveal, but yeah, that escalation in the stories.

Lilly 42:33

And it, cause, well actually, I think the weight of what is hollow, The main character sees death at one of the executions. Just for like a moment and it's kind of a blink and you'll miss it.

Sara 42:44

she does. I mean, she, she says like, oh, there's death

Lilly 42:47

Mm hmm. And you're

Sara 42:48

and that's

Lilly 42:49

whoa, okay. And then yeah seeing more of her and then right and then love is a man who follows her around or something I think.

Sara 42:59

Yeah.

Lilly 43:00

that's fun. Good mythology in this world.

Sara 43:04

Yes.

Lilly 43:05

it mythology if it's real?

Sara 43:07

It's a fine enough word for it.

Lilly 43:09

It gets the point across. Yeah, I have a good collection. Never disappointed by Premium Muhammad.

Sara 43:17

Yeah, I have never been disappointed by anything of hers that I've read.

Lilly 43:22

I don't even know when a good time for me to have read this would be. Not this week.

Sara 43:27

Probably not for the next four years.

Lilly 43:30

But then, the flip side of that is, isn't that when you need those stories? I don't know.

Sara 43:36

I, I feel like an argument can be made either way.

Lilly 43:38

Yeah. And

Sara 43:41

but it is not, I mean, even though we say, oh, some of these stories are happy and have a happy ending and It all is in the framework of this Very cruel, exploitative.

Lilly 43:54

that system is not destroyed at the end.

Sara 43:57

No.

Lilly 43:58

I think Chris Farnell was talking about this a little bit when we interviewed him some amount of time ago that I can't remember. Two weeks ago? Anyway.

Sara 44:07

Last week?

Lilly 44:08

week? That feels like a month. In fantasy stories, or SFF, in fiction, you often get the story of the one hero standing up against the oppressive regime and toppling them, and how that's like simply not realistic. And it's much more stories like this, where it's someone doing their best to be as obstructive as possible and maybe making a couple people's days a little bit better in this, in the small moments.

Sara 44:42

or a couple of people's days a little bit

Lilly 44:44

Yeah, and seeing that exploration of triumph and, not rebellion, but

Sara 44:53

Resistance?

Lilly 44:55

yeah, that's

Sara 44:55

And, and also, you don't always need a chosen one. Right? Like,

Lilly 45:00

yeah,

Sara 45:01

like, you can be ordinary people and have an impact, even if it's not big, it's still an impact.

Lilly 45:08

Always makes me think of Lord of the Rings, obviously. Which is funny because that is, oh, it's, you know, the bravery and the small things and the everyday stuff. But then also, but it is one Frodo. Saving the world, at the same time, so. A little bit of a contradiction there, Tolkien, but I'll let you have it.

Sara 45:29

But I think, I think the point was that. with Frodo is that it could have been anyone. Frodo was not, you know, the chosen one by prophecy or whatever. He is just an ordinary hobbit.

Lilly 45:40

But this is not a Lord of the Rings conversation. Isn't everything a Lord of the Rings conversation, just a little bit?

Sara 45:46

With us, yes.

Lilly 45:48

But yeah, really good book. Obviously our collection of stories, very glad I read it. Didn't leave me feeling bad afterwards. It wasn't like a downer in that way.

Sara 46:00

Right.

Lilly 46:00

just, yeah, the, there are some really legit stories that. Make you think. You, yeah. No escapism here.

Sara 46:09

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a thoughtful collection as expected from Muhammad.

Lilly 46:13

Yeah, of course. Excited to see what she does next.

Sara 46:18

Yeah, I believe that things have already been announced because, like I said, she is incredibly, incredibly prolific. I think she had like four books come out last year,

Lilly 46:29

Damn.

Sara 46:31

something like that. So yeah,

Lilly 46:34

Well, looking forward to it.

Sara 46:36

and maybe this will be the year that we read her Cosmic Horror Trilogy.

Lilly 46:40

I'd be down. You know I'm always down.

Sara 46:45

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Lilly 46:48

Come disagree with us. We're on Blue Sky and Instagram, at FictionFansPod. You can also email us at FictionFansPod at gmail. com. or leave a comment on YouTube.

Sara 47:00

If you enjoyed the podcast, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Lilly 47:07

We also have a Patreon where you can support us, find exclusive episodes, and a lot of other nonsense.

Sara 47:13

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!