Fiction Fans

Author Interview: Like a Bullet by Andrew Cartmel

• Episode 197

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Your hosts are joined by Andrew Cartmel to discuss Like a Bullet, the latest addition to his nefarious Paperback Sleuth mystery novels. They talk about wartime novels, the allure of ill-begotten Nazi good, and Cordelia’s “go get ‘em, but have a backup plan just in case" approach to encounters.


Find more from Andrew:
https://reclaimedradio.com/shows/andrew-cartmel/

https://www.instagram.com/vinyldetectivelondon/

https://twitter.com/andrewcartmel?lang=en


Find us on Discord / Support us on Patreon

Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

Lilly:

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily.

Sara:

I'm Sarah and I'm so pleased to welcome Andrew Carmel back onto the show. This time to talk about like a bullet, the latest paperback, sleuth novel.

Andrew:

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I don't know if I've heard anybody else say the title out loud before. It sounded really good. Maybe it.

Lilly:

It's very good. It is a a, oh no, I should have remembered the poet's name.

Andrew:

I re remembered'cause I have to, it's Melville.

Lilly:

Thank you.

Andrew:

It's a poem called Shiloh Requiem, I think so. It's great'cause it's a, it's just, it sounds like a totally cool kind of action title, like a bullet, and then it turns out to be this I guess it would be 19th Century poem by, by Melville. So it's, it is kind of a cool little double whammy that.

Lilly:

Absolutely. I.

Sara:

I loved. Reading because, because you include a little bit more of the poem in the book itself. and I loved seeing the context of it. It, it made me, honestly, it made me want to go and read the poem.

Andrew:

It, it is really interesting'cause I mean, we like everybody else, I only know Melville through Moby Dick. This fortunately is considerably shorter this poem, it takes less, less of your time. But it's, it's quite interesting poem and I thought it was quite nice to be able to give an analysis of it from one of the characters, sort of to give a bit more of an explanation of why it seemed relevant.

Sara:

Absolutely.

Lilly:

And there are a couple of delightful little literary conversations like that in this book, since this is a book about books. But I don't wanna get too far into our conversation because first, what is something great that happened recently? I.

Andrew:

Ooh. Okay. So my friend Ben Ovi, whom you may know it looks like he's going to help me put on another play. So that was great. So hearing from him and suddenly outta the blue uh, it looking like that we'll be doing a play this year. That, that was great.

Sara:

That's very exciting. Can you tell us more about the play?

Andrew:

Only I, I won't only because I don't wanna jinx it. It's, we, we haven't, it's not a done. I don't wanna have end up with egg on my face, but I'll be very happily let you know as soon as it's sorted out. But I'm hoping to do a comedy in October or November at a theater I haven't, we haven't used before. So we'll see if we can pull that together.

Sara:

Fingers

Lilly:

exciting. Yeah. Sarah, how about you?

Sara:

My good thing is that I have tomatoes on my tomato plants.

Andrew:

Oh.

Lilly:

lucky.

Sara:

I'm very pleased.

Lilly:

I still only have flowers, but it is colder where I am.

Sara:

Yeah, I mean, and I, to be fair, I wasn't sure that I would get a lot of tomatoes this year. I'm still not sure if I'll get a lot of tomatoes this year because it has been cooler this summer, but I'm at least going to have three or four.

Andrew:

It is lovely.

Lilly:

You know, technically, summer only just started.

Sara:

Well true, true. But it's still been cooler.

Lilly:

Yeah. My good thing is that our third issue of our literary magazine came out a little while ago a little longer by the time this episode is out. But I learned how to make epub file types instead of just PDFs, which has been a, a challenge and I've overcome it, and now I don't have to, well. Not that I don't have to worry about it anymore, but it's not hanging over me all the

Andrew:

Yeah, yeah, I know what that's like. So congrats.

Lilly:

Thank you. What is everyone drinking today?

Andrew:

Well, I've been drinking hot chocolate all day, but just this evening I made myself for the first time in months, a cup of green tea and there's a reason for that. But I think you can ask me about the books I'm reading and the reason for that is from books, a book I was reading, so I'll save it for the

Lilly:

Oh, perfect.

Sara:

I thought about making myself tea. I thought about making myself hot chocolate because hot chocolate is,

Andrew:

so good. Never hesitate.

Sara:

it's excellent, but it also features quite a bit in this book.

Andrew:

So true.

Sara:

ultimately I decided that I would have a glass of red wine in honor of Monty who is the author of the books that Cordelia is looking for in like bullet.

Lilly:

And I am drinking iced tea because it's warm out. It is a black tea rose blend,

Andrew:

good.

Lilly:

From the Huntington Library, which is neither in Huntington nor a library.

Andrew:

And they make, they make iced tea there. That's kind of interesting.

Lilly:

Well, the, the tea leaves are from there. They have like a tea house. It's more, I've only ever been to the gardens. Uh

Andrew:

that's That's how civilized.

Lilly:

Yes, it's really lovely. It's in la and so I made myself iced tea from it and it's very good. A little, just a tiny bit of sugar.'cause I'm

Andrew:

Do you, do you get down to LA much?

Lilly:

I grew up in Southern California, so I have family down there still.

Andrew:

Sweet.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm. Has anyone read anything good lately?

Andrew:

So the books I'm currently, I'm as usual, I've got a bunch of books on the go, but the, the one that's relevant to the beverage is I'm reading a book by Michael Pollan called, this Is Your Mind on Plants. I. And in he, he co it's about psychoactive plants and he covers opium, caffeine. And what's the third one? And something else later in the book? Oh. Yes. Psychedelics. I think it's it might be peyote or masculine or something, but I haven't got to that. But yet, and it was such a beguiling account of caffeine and how. Its impact, which is incredible on our civilization. Like the whole idea that the, the Reformation, the enlightenment would. Brought about by caffeine drinking. It's, it's fascinating. Also, he was talking about how in the Far East it's completely, was completely a spiritual beverage. It was developed to aid meditation and it was, you know, first grown by Buddhist monks. And so I thought, wow, I've got some green tea in the kitchen. I, and I was compelled to go and make some, so I, I'm reading that, but I'm also reading a book called Silver Nitrate by Sylvia Marino Garcia, which is a supernatural thriller. About the movie business in Mexico in the sixties, and I dunno if you know about silver nitrate, it's an old technology for making movies, but I saw a silver nitrate print at the British Film Institute. Last year and it's remarkable. Like it, it looks like nothing else, but it's really dangerous because it's highly flammable and can spontaneously combust. So all these vast libraries of, of silver nitrate prints have gone up in flames. But, so it's a really fascinating technology and it has a certain sort poet resonance, which Sylvia Marino Garcia certainly. Digging into, she wrote a famous book called Mexican Gothic. Anyway, so those two are very much on the go, but you can't shut me up, I'm afraid. I gotta keep going. Gotta tell you about my other discoveries. I reread a book called Falling Angel by William Hertzberg, which again is a supernatural crime story. It's a detective novel. It's made into a movie called Angel Heart, which with Mickey Rourke and Robert De Niro. And it was such a great book. I, I had forgotten how great it was or I'd never realized how great it was. So I looked at all these other books by the, the author and one of Berg's books was this enormous biography. Of a famous hippie writer called Richard Brogan, who I knew all about, but I'd never knew any, any of the details of him. So I started reading the biography. And that's fascinating too. It goes into all the kind of the poets, the beat poets and the, the San Francisco in the late fifties. That whole scene from which Richard Brogan arose. So, I know I'm talking about too many books, but I couldn't resist mentioning that one'cause it's, it made such an impression on me.

Sara:

No such thing as too many books

Andrew:

then, then one more I've, I've rediscovered Patricia Highsmith and I, the London Times declared here the finest crime novelist of them all. I thought, oh, that's a better, but now I've read a few that I hadn't encountered before. I think they may be right. She may be the greatest crime novelist of all time. So, but I promise that's, that's me done for books for the, for a little while.

Sara:

Well, it's great because I don't have an answer and I feel like we've covered enough books.

Andrew:

have two of my books. You have two of mine.

Lilly:

And I will also borrow one. Thank you,

Andrew:

Oh, great.

Lilly:

Before we

Andrew:

should literally, a, any of those books are worthy of your time, particularly the Patricia Highsmith's two books in particular, deep Water And The Glass Cell, they were just completely knocked me out. They're such brilliant, brutal crime novels.

Lilly:

Wonderful. But actually that's a lie. I did read one book. It was like a bullet by Andrew Carmel.

Andrew:

Oh, again, what a great title.

Lilly:

it really is, and I. This book. So we are back with Cordelia Stan. She's been hired to find some very rare paperback novels, and in this book particularly, she's looking for a series of commando novels. And what drew you to that for the topic that Cordelia is sleuthing for, for this book?

Andrew:

Ooh you're asking me to excavate a bit. I can't remember exactly. Why I decided to write about war. Obviously I go from through different genres and so this time it was gonna be war novels. I suppose I was aware of, uh. that there is this sort of school of pulp war stories that, especially in paperback, which were popular, late fifties, early sixties, far enough from the second World War for people to be able to turn into popular entertainment, but near enough for it to be very alive in the memory of the population. But also, to be fair, I believe. I had the basic McGuffin, the basic storyline. I, that's right. I'd come up with a basic storyline, which I don't wanna give too much away, but there is, sort of treasure at stake and people are willing to kill for it. And I had a war story, which enabled me to make that part of the plot. And because it was a war story. That's why that was the genre of books we're exploring. I can give more details about that in the spoiler section.

Sara:

We will save that for the spoiler section. We have read what I would consider a war novel. The Eagle has landed by Jack Higgins. I, I feel like that counts.

Andrew:

Oh, I, I like that book a lot. it's sort of been somewhat weakened in my memory by, I. An inferior film adaptation, but the book was really strikingly good.

Sara:

Yeah, it's been a couple of years since we read it. And we read it for the podcast and ended up never releasing an, an episode on it. But I, I remember it being quite compelling. Do you think that, that, Experience with those novels brings anything different to reading like a bullet. I mean, obviously you don't, you don't have to have read tons of of war

Andrew:

think it does, because j Jack Higgins, who wrote under a variety of pseudonyms, including James Graham, I had a bunch of his books as James Graham the Wrath of God was one. That's exactly, he was tuning out these kind of war and crime and espionage novels, some of which were very good. but he was a kind of prolific, I don't wanna use the word hack writer, because he was too good for that, but he, he was writing pot boilers. He was definitely writing for money. And I read a bunch of his books back to back, and I remember being deeply distressed because the same phrases would turn up, like the stars in the sky at night would be like a. Handful of diamonds streed across black velvet. And then another, there's another thing, and in fact, Cordelia mentions this I think in one of the books where a wind blows a little trapped wind blows in and circles around the corner of the room and dies. And it's a great description when you read it once, but when you read it twice and, and this is the problem with people who are writing lots of books, particularly back in the days before we had. Word processors. Because what I do is I keep a file of all my books. It's a huge file. It's getting a bit too big to search. But if I think, did I use that phrase before? I can actually look and see, but these guys could never have done that. And another example would be John Dixon Carr, great crime novelist. And there's a secrets in his. Books where somebody's walking up to the front of a house, said in the garden, the birds were bickering. I thought that's the greatest description of Bird song ever. The birds were bickering. Then I read it another one of his books then, and another one, which is just such a shame because it is a brilliant description, but it's cheapened by repetition. Anyway, all which is to say Jack Higgins is in that sort of area, very gifted writer, but writing commercially for money, you know, for QuickBook, but he'd still. Brought out some beautiful books, and that is exactly the kind of genre writing that we're talking about in this case that Cordelia is, is looking at. Just as a sideline, I wanted to say though, that Jack Higgins daughter wrote some very effective historical novels, and she apparently she did really well. I, I'm wondering if, if her name was Patricia Finney or something like that, I, it wasn't the same as her dad, but anyway. Exploring and, and good to know.'cause I remember him saying something like, oh, she's a much better writer than I ever was, and she had quite, quite a lot of success, which is great.

Lilly:

Do you have any recommendations for a reader who after reading like a bullet, might want to try out a, a war novel?

Andrew:

Oh, a good one. What would a good one be? Let me have a quick think about that. There's a book. By Len Dayton called Bomber, which is just stunningly good. It's really great. It's about one night a bomber bombing mission over Germany, and it's about all the characters involved, both in the British bomber, but also on the ground, like the people who are gonna get hit by the bombs. And it's this, I'm getting goosebumps thinking about it. It's this enormous kind of sweeping expanse. A and it's really. Examined with huge, brilliant, critical detail. So that's an amazing war novel. So I, now that I've, my brain's kicked in. Thank you. T I, I'm beginning to come up with various suggestions, but I don't think I can come up with a better one than that. So Bomber by Len Dayton, and it's also got this beautiful thing that the bombing mission. Takes place on the, and this is very appropriate to us now, takes place on the night of the 31st of June. And at the beginning of the book, he says, there never was a bomber called, whatever it was, there never was these characters. And he all said there never was a 31st of June in that year or any other. And oh, that's. Right. That's just so clever. Just the, part of the brilliance of, of Len Dayton, who people may know him better if they know him at all now as a, as an espionage novelist, but he knew a lot about World War II and Bomber is a remarkable novel and, a big one, but it's one of those big books that you kind of love getting lost in

Sara:

Awesome. I, now I'm tempted to go check it out.

Andrew:

it. It's an extraordinary book, really powerful.

Sara:

So in like a bullet bringing it back to your book for a minute there's a lot of conversations around research for writing books because Monty, who has written these commando novels is essentially getting his, stories from someone who was there and, and did that kind of work. And. You have a line about including details that only a chap who'd been there and done it would know. So what was your research process like for this book and, how did you know those details to include? I.

Andrew:

oh, right. Yeah, I, I did do a quick. bit of research about the weapons and there's this something fascinating about, I think it was about how the stem gun jammed. If you put in the full complement of bullets, it would tend to jam. Oh, well that's great. But you know, I, I feel a bit ashamed. I just researched that online, but it was such a beautiful little detail and I thought it, it really was a telling detail. It's the sort of, you don't need much of that. I think I'd say. He says in the book, you don't need much of that just to bring it to life. So that was just a bit of yield. The online research I'm not sure why anything came from life. My dad was, did fight in the second World War. He wasn't a commander. He was in the Canadian artillery. So I picked up a lot of stuff from him, but I'm not sure I've deployed any of it in this particular book.

Lilly:

The internet does make research easier.

Sara:

It's true.

Lilly:

I think Monty also makes a a reference to the fact that when he was writing, you had to actually go to a library to research.

Andrew:

Yes, and I remember my buddy Ben, who I mentioned earlier, has always done research. Like he's always been really good at that. And he always used to berate me or tease me For being lazy about doing research, but all that changed since the internet arrived because I, I didn't have any ideological objection to research. I just had an idea. Ideological objection to leaving the house.

Sara:

I'm very valid.

Lilly:

So. This is of course one of the paperbacks luth novels that focuses on Cordelia as opposed to a vinyl detective novel that follows the vinyl detective and there is a lot more action adventure in this series of books. Is that just due to Cordelia's Go get'em. Approach to

Andrew:

Ooh, I wasn't, I mean, I'm sure you're right. I wasn't particularly aware of that. That's interesting. Because one would've thought because she's a female protagonist and because the the world of books, which is quite a cozy world, there wouldn't be so much. But yeah, that's, and she is, she does have tendency to get into scrapes also. She's quite kick ass. And also she has a very useful friend in the shape of her landlord.

Lilly:

Yes, and maybe it's just my perception. But it feels like Cordelia is going and finding trouble, whereas the vinyl detective is doing normal things and trouble is thrust upon

Andrew:

Yeah, he does his best to stay out of

Lilly:

Yeah.

Andrew:

true.

Sara:

Yeah, that was, that was actually the point that I was going to make. Was that the vinyl detective? Yes. There, there is some action. Particularly like in the, in the first couple of books, I think, but he is trying to avoid it as much as he can and Cordelia is going out and being active about getting herself involved in, these kinds of hijinks.

Andrew:

And I also think that there's still something about. Because is a female viewpoint character, we're more invested in her and more concerned about her when Jeopardy beckons. I, I think that there's some truth in that.

Lilly:

We have this question officially in the spoiler section, so you might not be able to answer it. And I guess it's actually not a question at all, but we noticed and really appreciated that Cordelia always has a sort of safety backup plan whenever she does embark on one of her adventures. And that just felt very realistic. I mean, the maybe low key real world version is texting your friends when you get home.

Andrew:

Yeah.

Lilly:

she has the sort of much more involved version of that whenever she's going on one of her heists.

Andrew:

When I'm reading a book. I always like the character. If I'm supposed to sympathize with the character, I want them to be smart. I don't want'em to make dumb mistakes. So when I'm writing my own books, I'm very aware of that. So I try and make my characters as smart as possible, and in a case like that, when they're doing something dangerous, to be as careful as possible. So I guess that's probably where that comes from.

Sara:

Definitely, I mean, I appreciated it. Just, I like that she's sensible about these terrible things that she's doing.

Andrew:

She is very methodical. That's true.

Lilly:

Yes. We get an introduction to a, a couple of different characters or, and maybe a reintroduction to some of them as well. And one thing that I noticed coming up in this book was sort of the difference between old and new money. Eric make loud, the, the rockstar Ozzy and Finn, the. I'm gonna call them computer nerds. then of course, motha and Betty is two other characters who had much more different tastes perhaps. And maybe I, I was mostly picking up on the description of their homes and how they seemed, although all of them are rich, it's displayed very differently and I thought that was very interesting.

Andrew:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Methe particularly, I'm so pleased with that name. I believe it means dark flower. but she's, she's a, this very kind of sinister, ruthless British aristocrat, and I could really see that character, and as you say, old money and lots of it. But Betty, of course, we met in the previous book.

Lilly:

yes. And Eric McCloud, we've met in other books as well, although Cordelia has not.

Andrew:

No, it's fun and, and one of the fun things about this book is. WI began, began to have this book come together in my head as I was finishing the previous paperbacks, finishing writing it. And I realized I could hook them together quite easily because I knew this was gonna be about looking for pulp war paperbacks. And in the previous paperbacks with Asra Assassin, and she actually finds a stash of these, and they, these really exist. These, these are these book by guy called Finn Hassel, which is about this, german Batal anyway, it's completely nuts. But these books sold in their millions and they do exist and they're, they're absolutely pulpy war stories. So she finds a whole treasure trove of these and sells them to somebody at a huge profit. She flips them, and I suddenly thought, wait a minute. That could be Eric May Cloud. So I set it all up. So I, I went, actually went back and I didn't, I don't think I actually said it was Eric, but I made it all very. I made it uniform and made it all hook up nicely so that it could lead into this. So it actually became a little kind of ute to, to this novel. So I, I really like doing that.

Lilly:

Fantastic. Are we. To move on to the spoiler section. Sarah, did I cover everything?

Sara:

I think we have, I, yeah, I wanna, I wanna talk about spoiler stuff.

Andrew:

I, I, I love it.'cause it means we can, we don't have to worry about what we're saying,

Sara:

Exactly.

Lilly:

Well, before we move on to the spoiler conversation, I have our, segue question for Sarah. Who should read this book?

Sara:

You should read this book. Well, a, if you read the first two and enjoyed them, you're going to like this one. But if you haven't read the first two. If you want a book featuring delightfully awful people going on. Some sometimes murderous adventures and fun heists, but crucially, that doesn't stress you out for the main character. Like, yes, that she's in danger, but I'm not worried at the end of the novel that she's going to be dead. And I really, I really enjoy that. Like, it means that I can enjoy the danger that she's in without stressing.

Andrew:

I think that's, I mean, obviously if, if you've got a recurring character, you sort of always know that, don't you? But it, that is the particular, I think, appeal of the cozy crime novels. They can get very dark and scary for, with a safe place at the center of them.

Sara:

Yeah, exactly. This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Fiction Fans.

Lilly:

That's us! We really appreciate our patrons, because otherwise we fund this podcast entirely ourselves.

Sara:

Patrons can find weekly bonus content, monthly exclusive episodes, and they have free access to our biannual zine, Solstitia.

Lilly:

You can find all of that and more at patreon. com slash fictionfanspod. Thank you for all of your support.

Sara:

The remainder of this episode contains spoilers.

Lilly:

Well, as Sarah mentioned just a second ago, I really felt your joy in writing less likable characters in this book. I think it's something you've mentioned before about this series. But I think every single character in this had something about them that made me go, you would be so cool. Except

Andrew:

Oh dear.

Sara:

But, but that's great because somehow I still enjoyed reading about all of them.

Lilly:

yeah.

Andrew:

Well, somebody called them my gallery of grotesque. I, I think that these people are pretty normal, but it's true that, that that's how they do strike the reader. But, but that's also what makes them vivid and I think engaging for the reader.

Sara:

I think they're normal, but just like a notch above because I mean, most people don't go on. Heists to steal rare paperbacks. Even though, I'm not gonna say I haven't been tempted because I am a book collector. I, I do, you know, sometimes there are those books that I just, man, if I had no morals like Cordelia, I would Yeah, I get it.

Andrew:

no morals and a very good he plan.

Sara:

Yes. And good backup, which is also quite crucial.

Andrew:

Crucial.

Lilly:

which does bring me to the one character with zero flaws, which is Edwin and of course Rain Bottle, his dog, although that might just be me projecting a little bit.

Sara:

I think, I think Rain Bottle is absolutely the character with zero flaws. I might argue a little bit that Edwin I mean, Edwin's a great guy. I love him,

Andrew:

but he does tend to kill people. That is, some would see that as a character flaw.

Lilly:

I thought it was interesting though when he embarks on his, his personal heist in this book that we don't quite see on the page. He does not actually end up following through with his plan to kill the bodyguards who have been trying to kill Cordelia at that point, for like at least a third of the book. Mm-hmm.

Andrew:

Yeah. I, I like the fact that that turned out I, there, there probably was a stage at which I thought he would kill him, and then I thought it's so much more interesting if he doesn't. So much more human. And also it was very useful from an exposition point of view because instead of just killing the guy, the guy, not only could he tell us lots of interesting things, but also suddenly he could become. An ally an associate an accomplice that's, he could help us out. So that was a much more interesting way for it to go. And also it made Edwin sort of more complex and nuanced Instead of just killing somebody, you, you could see he could hold back when he saw there was a better way.

Sara:

I thought that it was really interesting the way that I was born became kind of their man on the inside. And that transition from antagonist to Ally was just fascinating. And it does bring, like you say, it does bring nuance to Edwin. And it, it also tempers his serial killer ness just a little bit. Like he's not, he, he doesn't kill people who haven't in some way, you know, deserved it.

Andrew:

Well, yeah, I mean also Osborne he was one of two people who tried to kill or cordelia, but obviously he didn't really wanna do that and he felt terrible about having been part of that. So that, that's sort of what, that was what saved him, I think.

Sara:

Poor guy. I felt bad for him.

Lilly:

Me too. He was almost my caveat for the one character with no flaws. But you get one attempted murder, not two. That's where I draw the line.

Sara:

Something that struck me in this book is we see Tinkler, who we know from the vinyl detective novels and who we've seen in previous paperbacks, sleuth books, but it struck me that he's almost kind of cool in this book at points. Like he's, he, I. Definitely think he's cooler in Cordelia's novels than he is in the final detective's novels.

Andrew:

is odd because she has dated him and, and really kind of looks down on him. But yet, but one reason he might seem cooler, and this one is because there's people who are even nerdier than him, which are the two brothers in, in Cambridge. So by comparison to them, he is kind of cool.

Sara:

Well, and also like he's supportive. Yes, he just wants to sleep with her, but he's supportive. He doesn't bat an eye when she says she's going to steal books, and he, he brings her, he brings her text so that he can do it more, so that she can do it more successfully.

Andrew:

That's true. Yeah. He, he brings her the bag of tricks from, from Nevada.

Sara:

Yeah, so I just, you know, I, I was very supportive of him in this book. I was like, actually, ler, you're, you're great right

Andrew:

That's nice. He, he'd be so pleased to hear that.

Lilly:

Cordelia tends to get herself in over her head. And in in this book we see that by her attempt to steal a couple of paperbacks ends up with her in possession of 13 bars of Nazi gold. An escalation that no one saw coming.

Andrew:

That when I realized that Nazi gold could be at the heart of this novel, I was so pleased. And that's that sort of, that's the novel, sort of grew outwards from that.

Lilly:

Was that sort of your, your original concept

Andrew:

Well, the, okay, so in full disclosure, I read a book by Marjorie Allingham, which is a classic crime novel called Tiger In the Smoke, and that was about these soldiers who came back from the war after mysterious mission with something. And I thought, oh, it's gonna be N Gold, but it wasn't. It was something really boring. It was just so boring. And I thought, oh, but that's fine'cause that frees me up to do what I thought it was gonna be, which is they, they've got this cash from Nazi Gold. So I, it was, I was inspired by that book, which in is, is a huge classic and highly regarded. But personally, it disappointed me on that front, which is as great as I say,'cause it, it, it enabled me to come up with a, a plot for this.

Sara:

Nazi Gold definitely is more fun than. anything else I can think of. So.

Andrew:

In that book, it was like a, it is like a statue of an angel, like a really boring, anyway, it was really boring. It was super boring.

Lilly:

You mentioned that originally Edwin was going to murder the bodyguards. how much of the book changed because of that? Change.

Andrew:

is sort of in a kind of state of flux before you get there. And so I would've considered that possibility and perhaps discarded it quite early on because Osborne was so useful for the for, for the ending, which is a kind of a well organized taste, isn't it? and also you want to keep the level of mayhem and jeopardy high, but at the same time you sort of, sort of wanna keep body count low in terms of plausibility.

Lilly:

Yeah, someone's gonna notice if too many people show up dead, right?

Andrew:

Well certainly body count by somebody like Edwin because you can't have'em just slaughtering people at your convenience. If the bad guys are killing lots of people, that's a different matter.'cause it just makes them more dangerous and scary.

Sara:

Also, we want the bad guys to be caught at the end. We don't want Edwin to be

Andrew:

Yeah,

Lilly:

True. Yeah.

Andrew:

that's right.

Sara:

We've talked a little bit about this, but Cordelia kind of assembles a team at the end. And we do get these, these very fun like group heist scenes. how did your planning of the heist for a group differ from planning the heist for Cordelia alone? Or, or does it?

Andrew:

Well this was, this was definitely like a classic highest, like an ocean to 11 type thing.'cause you have a bunch of people coming in. I was very pleased with how, how it. It turned out because it, it moved really quickly and it was like you just hit the beat. Like, they obviously worked out the things they needed to do and they just did them. And it was kinda really smooth and smart. And it ended up with the bad guys neatly tied up with a, bow and left for the cops because I I had a lot of trouble initially working out what, because we, I had a dead body to deal with. I thought, how the hell. Are, are we gonna get the dead body? And it, you know, I realized the dead body could be useful if you planted it with, how did you get the bad guys to the dead body? I went through all these scenarios and suddenly thought, oh, it could all happen at LAN's house when I realized I could just bring it all together there, everything could happen. And that was, I was very pleased with that. And it took quite a while to work that out because the body was in Cambridge, right? And I thought, oh, we have to go to Cambridge and what are we gonna do? But then I realized that they could just bring the body to London That I was very pleased with that just from a craft point of view you know, like purely carpentry, so to speak. I, I, it just logistically, I worked out what needed doing, and so it ended up being this very neat, clean ending where all these things happened and they just, they nailed the bad guys. So good. I was very happy about that. That was one of the two things that I really was proud of in this book. One of the two sequences. I wonder if you'd guess what the other one was.

Lilly:

Hmm. Is it the uh, the pepper spray in the

Andrew:

Oh, thank you. So, yeah, thank you. I mean, it was wrong with me to go fishing for that, but I really wanted to know if that had made an impression.

Lilly:

No, it was so perfectly set up when Edwin Gifts pepper spray to Cordelia and says, whatever you do, do not use it in a car. But of course, she's at the time being suffocated by a plastic bag, which keeps her safe from the pepper

Andrew:

When I realized that I, I was just so pleased. I was just so pleased because I thought, she's in the car, she can't use it. But what if they, what if I, and it was great'cause like the two things. Cancel each other out. It was so wonderful. Their attempt to kill her actually protects her and I was just, I was walking around on air for days after I thought that I was very, so those are the two sequences I was supremely proud of is the pepper spray in the car and the final high setup. I just thought those worked really. I know this is very modest, but I'm being honest with you guys, I was very, very happy with those and I sort of felt that those two sequences made the book, at least for me.

Sara:

I, they definitely work really well. This is such a fun book. I enjoy all of your, books. The vinyl detective books, the, the paperbacks, sleuth books. But I do have a fondness for Cordelia because I am a book collector myself. And so I, I can definitely, like, I understand the terms in a way. I don't necessarily with the vinyl detective books. And, and so it just, it's, it's really fun.

Andrew:

Hmm.

Sara:

Incidentally, about the um, the pepper spray, I had no idea that it was illegal in the uk.

Andrew:

Again, I just, I did research and I thought, whoa, it's illegal. Wow. That's, yeah. And then I was looking up and I was looking at these, all these caveat, all the you know, warnings like, do not use in a car. And I thought, oh, hmm.

Lilly:

knives also, which we see a little bit of. When the, at the time unknown entity is threatening Cordelia or perhaps Tinkler they use a

Andrew:

The, the old knife with the photo trick. Yeah. The Commander Dagger. My dad actually had one of those, even though he wasn't the commander. I remember seeing it when I was a kid. It was very distinctive and it's kind of iconic. It it represents the commander as that Commander Dagger.

Lilly:

And it leaves no question in our hero's mind that this is in fact about these books, right? It, it links the, the threat exactly to her current job. a little while ago you mentioned the body and I felt so bad for Finn. I didn't think it was possible, but he must have been dead for a, a week. How much time passes in this book and no one

Andrew:

I do. I dunno, but it's, it is, it is several days. Yeah.

Lilly:

no one notices. So I, the only thing that could make me feel bad for him.

Andrew:

It's, it's, yeah. But just because he is, he is a terrible, shallow person, doesn't mean that that should have happened to him and his brother. All along I had this notion that his brother. Would go into hiding that when he emerged from hiding, it would actually turn into a love story. And I just couldn't find anywhere to fit that in the book. And uh, my editor said, well, what happened to the brother? You need to top that loose end. So I thought, okay, I'll put the love story in at the very end.'cause I thought he should have a happy ending. And I was able to do it in just a few sentences. And then the editor was really pleased'cause he thought I just pluck this out the air. But this had been my plan all along, but there just didn't seem to be room. To include that.'cause it just seemed the book was over at that point. So I was really happy to get that in there so at least he could have a happy ending.

Sara:

He deserves some happiness.

Andrew:

Well, he is al he was always very nice and polite too, wasn't he? He was trying to be a good guy.

Sara:

He was doing his best and he had to live with his terrible brother who didn't necessarily deserve to be. Dead and left for dead for three days or, or however many days, but he

Andrew:

it's interesting that it is not just the fact that he is dead, it's the fact that he's, he's lying unnoticed.

Sara:

Yeah.

Andrew:

Which is particularly poignant that that gets to all of us. That's really interesting

Lilly:

Although to be fair, it's only because Ozzy is in hiding that he doesn't say anything. Right. He has been noticed, just the person who noticed.

Andrew:

and I can't afford to step forward. That's right. Yeah.

Lilly:

Oh, I thought it was so well done. Very, very subtly done during Ozzy's introduction. He comes up and hugs cordelia, like completely shatters all personal space boundaries. And of course her hackles are raised. I, as the reader, my hackles are raised. I'm like, Ugh. But then he immediately also does that to who was with her at the time? Tinkler, I think. Yeah.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

so it's like, oh, okay. He's just like this. He's not specifically creeping on Cordelia, and it

Andrew:

No, he just doesn't really, he is trying to navigate human relationships, so he doesn't really have the hang of it.

Sara:

Well, and especially because you can contrast that to Finn, who is clearly creeping on Cordelia.

Andrew:

Yeah. He thinks he's a ladies' man.

Sara:

Yeah, he is, he is uh, not,

Andrew:

not anybody's man,

Sara:

no.

Andrew:

but you know, don't speak, kill the dead poor guy. Yeah.

Sara:

I mean, again, he didn't, he didn't necessarily deserve to be left as a dead body for multiple days, but I wasn't sad that he was a dead body. I.

Andrew:

And he, he proves very useful at the end for entrapping the bad guys.

Sara:

Also very true.

Lilly:

Well, I think that covers our questions. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about? Any other plastic bags over the head that we missed?

Andrew:

Those two secrets I was so proud of, I, I, couldn't resist sort of fishing to see, but it turned out that that had proved memorable for you. So I was enormously delighted to hear that. I like the way that Monty turned out as a character. He is kind of lovably. I. You know, he's, he's just himself, you know, he's, he's terrible, but he is himself. So that was a lot of fun. And again, he was sort of a hippie sixties character. And I, I'm fascinated by that period. So that was, that was fun to explore. And there were a lot of people who were writing those pulp novels at the time. You know, they were just like writing books super fast for, for low, well, relatively low pay, but you know, making quite a lot of money outta doing it. So that was a real thing, that sort of wave of paperback, pulp fiction. But maybe we'll get to explore that more in some future novels of the paperback sleuth.

Sara:

I was gonna say, do you have any plans to bring Monty back? Obviously not, or not necessarily as a main character, but just as a kind of cameo or, or

Andrew:

hadn't thought about that at all, but that he could easily recur because once these characters become part of the repertory company, they do tend to, wh whenever I think, oh, I need a certain character for a certain purpose in a book, I've got this wonderful broad range o of characters to drawn. So he could easily turn up and it might be fun for him to turn up into a vinyl detective book.

Sara:

Absolutely. And you are amassing quite a cast of characters at this point,

Andrew:

It's so, so much fun and it's really great. It's, it's, it's fun creating characters, but even more fun to have a character you've already created and bring them back. It just sort of gives them even more of a three-dimensional existence.

Sara:

and it's a nice little tidbit for the reader too.

Andrew:

Right? Just little Easter egg for the read. Great. I love that stuff in other people's books. So.

Lilly:

While you were writing Monty in particular, was there anything that in, in the back of your head, going. I need to put something in. So readers don't think that the author is writing themself as an author into the book,

Andrew:

He's very different from me, isn't he? Yeah. However, that basement flat that he lives in, I lived in that basement flat for a number of years, so that there is that resemblance. I, I've changed the, the floor plan of it, but the basic layout of it is, is exactly as was.

Sara:

His garden sounded lovely.

Andrew:

it was a, it was a really nice little sun trap, that garden. And uh, me and my girlfriend who lived there for a few, we had a lovely little cat who used to enjoy being in that garden. it's always fun to re reuse parts of your personal history. It makes things seem more real if you're riding from experience.

Lilly:

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was a, a wonderful book and a wonderful conversation.

Andrew:

Thank you for reading guys. I really appreciate it and thank you for helping to get the message out there in the world.

Lilly:

Absolutely.

Sara:

like I said, we have so much fun with these books.

Andrew:

Oh, bless you. That's really great to know. It's great to see there's somebody out there reading it. It's fantastic. So thank you.

Sara:

Yeah, it's, it's always nice when we have one of your books on the podcast schedule.'cause I know, I know that I'm gonna have a good time.

Andrew:

Well, let's, hope that we soon have three series spinning out there. Keep your fingers crossed.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

Yes. And speaking of all of your different projects, what do we have to look forward from you next?

Andrew:

Ooh. So as I say, I'm trying to get a play on in October, November. Probably the next thing to happen is I. This new series to go like it's been sent out to various people. At some point, somebody's gonna read it. It's summer holidays now, but somebody will read it. And I believe it's a strongly, I believe it's got a strong appeal and I think people will go for it. So that might be the next thing to happen At some point there'll be other books in, in both the paperback, sleuth, and the Violent Detective series, but this may happen before that. So keep your fingers crossed.

Sara:

Is there anything you can tell us about it or do you want to wait until it's.

Andrew:

Yes, it's a, it's a period piece. It's set in the 1930s. It's two characters, man and a woman. the great thing about it is you, you know sir, you're saying how you enjoyed the paperback. So,'cause all these little details meant something to you, whereas the vinyl detective, it wasn't really your world. Well, both the paper actually for the final detective are specialized worlds. But this. Third series, it's a straight up crime series. It doesn't have any specialized world that might alienate people. I mean, I could, I could easily imagine people think, well, I don't wanna read a book about vinyl, or I don't wanna read a book about paperbacks, but this is straight up crime novel.

Sara:

Well,

Andrew:

And I, I don't think it has any limitations. Like, so the others do have a sort of, I thought that they had built in appeal, and they do. But that's also the flip side of that is sort of a builtin limitation. So I think the appeal, potential appeal of the new series. It's hopefully unlimited. Oh, and one more thing I should mention, since we last spoke, the vinyl detective is being translated into Spanish

Sara:

Congratulations.

Andrew:

it's, I've just heard it's also gonna be translated into Russian.

Sara:

Oh

Lilly:

very cool.

Andrew:

yeah. So it'll be it, English, German, Czech, Spanish, and Russian. So that's, it's, we're gradually expanding across the globe, guys.

Lilly:

That's awesome.

Sara:

And I

Andrew:

I was really pleased.

Sara:

I will say that yes the, the paperback sleuth books have more that I understand about the world. But the thing about both I. This series and the vinyl detective series is that even if you don't know anything about vinyl, like I don't know anything about vinyl or if you don't know anything about book collecting, you still make the stories and the characters and, and everything very accessible so you don't have to know things about those

Andrew:

you for saying that. I, I really do hope and believe that that's true. The problem is getting people through the front door, if you know what I mean, like getting them to read the books and I think that they could be offputting the fact that it's vinyl, vinyl and paperbacks. I don't think there's any problem. Once people get, you get people reading, but there's a problem getting them to turn the first few pages, whereas hopefully the new series, which is, as I say, straight up, detective, police, crime, murder mystery, that may, may not be that difficulty there. So we'll see.

Lilly:

Wonderful. Well, thank you again for joining us

Andrew:

It's been a pleasure. Thank you. And a privilege.

Lilly:

Where can our listeners, we'll put the links in the description below. Let's see if I have memorized it. We've got Instagram and twitter slash x or whatever it's called now,

Andrew:

And Facebook. Yeah.

Lilly:

Facebook and you have your Medway Pride radio

Andrew:

Yeah, which I think is more accessible through reclaimed radio simply because functionality is better. Like if you wanna listen to old episodes, if you go to Medway Pride, it's really difficult to find them. But on reclaimed radio, it's much easier. So, yeah. And I was just recording some, some more shows today, so if people would have a listen, that'd be amazing.

Lilly:

great. And did I cover everything? Did I remember it all?

Andrew:

I don't think there's anything, anything else out there at the moment. There might be more websites to come, but we will see.

Lilly:

Alright.

Sara:

Awesome. Andrew, thank you so much. As always, thank you for coming onto the podcast. It is such a delight to, to chat with you about your books.

Andrew:

I really enjoyed it and I look forward to seeing. I hope to see you guys soon because that will mean there's more books out there for us to talk about.

Sara:

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Lilly:

Come disagree with us! We're on BlueSky and Instagram at fictionfanspod. You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail. com or leave a comment on YouTube.

Sara:

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Lilly:

We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Sara:

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!