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WUN's mission is to help women to connect with other women, so they can share learnings, build confidence, and develop their own passion for the fast moving utilities space. Through our podcast episodes, we aim to provide our listeners with the skills they need to build long-lasting and fulfilling careers in the sector.
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WUN4ALL
Ep.64 Making Sites More Accessible - Inclusivity in the Utility Industry with Meg Ginsberg, South West Water & Julia Stichling, WUN Advocate
Meg Ginsberg is an assistant project manager at South West Water who has forged an inspiring career in the wastewater industry after facing significant personal and professional challenges. Born in Guildford and now based in Devon, Meg became a mother during the pandemic and navigated multiple surgeries that left her a wheelchair user by the age of 18. Originally pursuing a career in nursing, she shifted to project management, completing an apprenticeship and soon to start a degree apprenticeship at Exeter.
At South West Water, she manages large-scale projects across Devon and Cornwall, including flood and pollution reduction, working closely with engineers to modernise Victorian sewage systems and future-proof infrastructure.
Passionate about inclusivity, Meg launched "Construct Ability”, an initiative to help disabled people enter and thrive in construction and engineering.
With sights set on becoming an engineer herself one day, her unique perspective as a wheelchair user drives her mission to make the industry more accessible, adaptable, and diverse. Meg is proud to be part of an essential industry and hopes to continue changing perceptions and driving meaningful change.’ -Royal Academy of Engineering, National Engineering Day 2024 Role Model
This is truly a great listen!
Welcome to the Women's Utilities Network One for All podcast. Our corner of the world where we'll be talking all things energy water, sharing personal stories and debating female issues.
Speaker B:Enjoy. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Women's Utility Network podcast. My name is Julia Stichling and I am one of the advocates here at the Warren. I'm really excited to be joined for today's podcast by Meg Ginsberg, assistant Project Manager at Southwest Water Pen and Group. She's also the founder of Constructability. Welcome Meg.
Speaker A:Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker B:Julia, it's really exciting to speak to you today and I wanted to just start off and ask you, can you tell us a bit more about yourself, how you landed in the water industry?
Speaker A:Well, so my life has taken quite a few sort of quite quick right hand turns I think and I wasn't expecting to be in the water industry at all. So I started two years ago at Southwest Water as a level four apprentice project manager. Prior to that I'd actually started a university degree doing nursing. So completely different. And I sort of had all my life ready to go into medicine. And actually it was after I had my daughter at 18 that I had some sort of complications following her birth and ended up having three major reconstructive operations on both my feet. So as a result of that I had to withdraw from university, which obviously at the time was sort of like the end of the world. It was a challenge to sort of, I guess decide where my next direction was going to be and what I wanted to do. But actually the apprenticeship allowed that sort of earning while learning and also it was an area that I sort of, I guess I had a passion for in terms of engineering and you know, water as a resource is so valuable and everything like that. So it was a bit of a I'll try it out and see if I like it. And actually it's been the best decision I've ever made. I'm now on my level 6 project management degree, apprenticeship at Exeter University and thriving and yet loving the opportunities it's given me while now being a full time wheelchair user and still going through operations.
Speaker B:It's really incredible to hear that story and I really think a lot of our listeners are going to feel empowered by hearing that even if life throws you a curveball, you can adapt and you can make your own path and find your own path. So I just wanted to say I'm really astounded by how you managed your life so far. Being able to divert and fall back into something that you love and then you thrive in it. Yeah.
Speaker A:Thank you. I have been very lucky and I think it's only been possible because of the support and have amazing support with friends and family that have been there to pick me up. And it has been really difficult. It hasn't been an easy few years, but there's always, you know, positives and things to look forward to and work towards and that's what I've sort of found within the water industry.
Speaker B:That's amazing. You have also recently earned some recognition in the water industry. You have won the Energy Utility Skills Awards, Water Apprentice of the Year and also the Helen Hawkins Apprentice of the Year Award. And I was won. Wondering, could you tell us a bit more about what your current role actually entails at Southwest Water?
Speaker A:Yeah, of course. And those awards, especially the Helen Hawkins Award, because I got to meet her husband, Jeremy, which was incredibly emotional and meant a lot to be recognised. They have really sort of fueled me on to do more and to sort of achieve more and do better. So my role at Southwest Water. So I currently manage 18 wastewater projects, so all the way from the bottom of Cornwall to the top of Devon. They range completely. I think as the apprentice I got given all the sort of the random projects that being sat around for the last stamp, but actually they've been brilliant to learn and get that wide scope of the business. So I've got sort of large infrastructure projects like brand new wastewater treatment works, I've got flood defense, new suds, surface water separation, infiltration reduction, sort of loads and loads of different things that have, I guess, allowed me to meet a lot of people in the business as well quite quickly. So that's what that I'd be doing. And I'm based on site and in the office as well, so obviously that has challenges with accessibility. But I've always said all I want to do is do my job and do it well. So I'm sort of trying to navigate those barriers and try to overcome them.
Speaker B:That's super interesting. How much time do you actually in your role spend on site during a week? Is it half, half, or would you say it's even more?
Speaker A:No, I would actually say it's less than that. It depends where the projects are in their life cycle, to be honest. If there's a project nearby, I had a project recently down in Dawlish Worm, which is only about half an hour away from our office, so that was more of a once a week sort of popping down. But obviously when they're a bit further down in Cornwall and I'm sort of balancing my university work as well. It's a bit more difficult to sort of have a nice jolly and get a pasty. So, yeah, I'd probably sit once a week, sort of maximum, but usually what I do is I sort of do, I guess, a tour of Cornwall. So if I'm down there for the day, I'll go see quite a few sites at once as well, which is usually quite good.
Speaker B:That's really cool. I think it's quite good as well to have that diversity of projects because that keeps it interesting and can get into more detail on one project, but then the next day you're working on something a bit else that keeps it challenging and also probably gives you a lot to kind of learn from and gather new experiences in.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100%. And it made my level four college work really easy in many ways because whatever evidence they needed I could usually find quite quickly. I'm now doing quite a lot of work with developer services as well, which is a route that I didn't really see myself going in. But they wanted someone from our engineering delivery department that would actually sort of take all their projects at once and I thought for my progression to have more of a program of works that would be quite good. And actually, again, I've really enjoyed that side, learning about the laws, meeting customers, engaging with local councils a bit more as well. So I think there's always opportunities. It's just making sure that you're, I guess, constantly sort of working towards them and trying to find them.
Speaker B:It's also probably sometimes realizing the things that you didn't expect. Like you just mentioned before the law and working with the councils. When you think about the water industry, your first instinct wouldn't go, oh, I need to work with, with the council and liaise, whether we can dig up the road, whether we can go through this field. So there is, there is probably a lot involved around your day to day job that you wouldn't have associated prior to starting in this role.
Speaker A:Yes, and I think it's that also collaboration piece as well. And the education side, which is, I guess another like the creative side that I didn't think would come. And that's something that's really given me a lot of energy. So going into the schools, teaching kids about apprenticeships on one side and all to, you know, the water industry in general and then actually sit well, I guess taking the time to speak to residents and explain why we're doing these projects and how it's going to impact them and how they can be included as well. I think that sort of stakeholder engagement piece is something that I didn't think, think I'd be able to have and have that sort of close relationship. And I sort of say project management's been the conductor in an orchestra. You know, you're constantly trying to keep everyone to the same time and finish at the right time, everything like that. And it's all sort of. You don't know how to necessarily play a clarinet yourself, but you know, you know the basics to get people by. And I think I never knew how many different instruments I'd be conducting in many ways.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:So that'd be really, really brilliant. Just to sort of see how many people are involved and also the different roles and responsibilities, I mean, I would have never known about them or anything like that. So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm constantly finding new ones as well, which is why it's always exciting and progressive.
Speaker B:I think that's the beauty of the water industry. There is so many sides to it and I certainly, when I speak to people that have recently joined the water industry, they see that side of it. But also when I speak to people that have been in the industry for 25 years, they are still in industry because there is that many aspects to water and your job in day one is not going to be your job in, you know, 20 years later.
Speaker A:Yes. And I think that whole it's a job for life is brilliant. Even if you come in and out or anything like that, I think it usually has quite a big place in people's hearts because we know how important it is and we know how much work there is to do. And I think the people that stay in it for a long time know that challenge and they're just constantly sort of picking away try and do the right thing and improve it for. For everyone.
Speaker B:Absolutely. With being so busy in your day role, you have also recently decided to set up a charity called Constructability after obviously FAC struggles of coming to side being able to access side easily in a wheelchair. Tell us a bit more about constructability and what your aim is.
Speaker A:So Constructability really came around because I was really struggling to do sort of little things in my day to day job and I'd had quite a few challenges with just even being able to sit my desk and stuff like that. And again, it was a big learning curve for both my business and the contractors and consultants. So, you know, not where is this a negative thing, it's a positive, you know, look what we've achieved now. And actually I was doing so many bitty tasks. So, for example, I was trying to create my own adaptive PPE or I was trying to speak to the site managers on the projects I was managing and saying, actually, could we have an accessible welfare unit because you can just tick that box instead and stuff like that. And then I think you realize that it's completely bigger picture than just me. And why isn't this more of a standard for everyone? So constructability really came about to make more of an industry change, but also go wider and make more of a. Sort of. Lots of different sector changes as well. Hence why it's not called water ability or some other random name. It's about the construction, energy, housing, water gap in it, all of that sort of stuff, and trying to set better standards that we should all be complying with. I think it's also about painting a bigger picture as well, to show that by making things more accessible on site through recruitment, within education, you know, all of this, it's safer for everyone and it's better for all. So we're not just saying it's for the. The one wheelchair user that might happen to come onto your site, actually, that, you know, there's a. There's a bigger picture for this. So we have the three aims within that. So the first one is to increase the number of disabled people in the construction industry. So we need to have voices represented, particularly when we're looking at civil engineers and sort of the actual design. And I do quite a lot of talks with the IC about inclusive design and actually really thinking about it within that early concept phase. So it's not a last sort of retrofit and expensive cost to the project. The second aim that we've got is to educate the employers and employees of the support available. And I think that's one thing that I really struggled with, was the isolation, not knowing what is right, what's wrong, what's legal, what's not, where the help is. And I think constructability will be a real, really sort of positive, centralized information source. You know, we're not going to be replicating what other people have done, but we're going to be a hub in a way to really showcase this is what is out there, this is who you need to speak to and if you need support that we're there. And then the third one is to actually innovate the change and adaptations. So for a few of my sites that I can't go on, we've done drone surveys so that I can be independent and have that dignity still. And still do. My workload. Technology in whole, has a massive space and area of opportunity within disability, so we definitely want to be tapping into that and by, I guess, understanding the areas of change. We need to speak to people. So these are speaking to disabled people who are already in industry and seeing what do they want improved, so what do they want adapted and how can we make this better? So I guess while we're setting up and we're currently going through the process of registering as a charity, we need to have these voices to help us really shift shape, the next path. And I find that so exciting because this is something which I truly believe is going to make sort of waves in all industries. And how brilliant is it to be able to sort of be there from the start and see it and watch it grow?
Speaker B:I think you mentioned it before, it's not just for the water industry. And you are able to create that change on basically any side, because whether it's a water side, a gas side, electric or even a housing construction project, you know, certain elements, especially in terms of health and safety, have to be the same anyway, and certain elements around how a site in general is set up will apply to all of them. So I'm very sure that you'll reach a wider audience with constructability. I just wanted to also mention the point. I think including the voices in a certain way, you're also giving the voices to people that might have felt unheard before, because you're certainly not going to be the first person struggling with this, but you are likely the first to speak up and do something about it. And I think that's very commendable because you will then enable other people to have a say and design their lives around a job that actually is accommodating for them.
Speaker A:Thank you. I think there are definitely individuals that are working really hard. I think a lot of the time it's just within their organisations, though. So you'll see brilliant companies that have got amazing EDI groups or disability sort of support networks, but actually that's quite small fish. And the energy they're having to put in to make those changes, we could be doing on such a bigger scale. I'm really, really fortunate to have appointed five trustees that are all disabled and they all have, you know, varying disabilities, different backgrounds, different specialisms, and even their voices as well, are going to be just so valuable, I think, to provide a different perspective and to really ensure that the charity. But when it becomes a charity, we stay on our mission and we actually do the things that we've promised and that we're separate from we're going to do, which is exciting in general and that, you know, you can't do it by yourself. I think that's the thing, you know, you've got to have the people around you. So very, very grateful to have all the support and for the people who have mentored and sort of said, yeah, it's a brilliant idea because it is in many ways and it's a shame that it hasn't been before. So, yeah, now's the time, 2025 would be the year to get it up and yeah, hopefully going.
Speaker B:And once it is a registered charity, what are sort of your plans in terms of how do you plan on making these three goals part of your day to day?
Speaker A:Yeah, so that's the area that we've got many plans and many ideas and in many ways we sort of, I think we need to ascertain how much funding we can get, obviously to get going and also who we're going to be connected with. So my first tip list is to get the supporters on board to really start reaching out to these large scale companies, reach out to the smaller companies where like the SMEs and see if they'd like our support. And I guess the, the goal would be to have like a sort of accreditation, so to say they're supporting us in our mission. We'd come, we'd have, you know, give presentations, we'd have that education side, we'd ensure that their work that they're doing is complying with, you know, how we should see fit. And in a way they're taking that extra box. So if they are looking at a new design of a bridge, for example, they've really included disabled local voices within that first initial planning stage. So I guess the accreditation is one side. There's another aspect to that as well that I'd love to work towards in the future, which is making sure education providers as well are really pushing for access to knowledge within their courses. So even within project management, when you talk about communication and how does disability come into that and sort of that side of things just make it a bit more of a day to day thing. And I think that helps people remember that they need to be including it in the work that they're doing. And I guess another goal that we're hoping to have is a conference and have that collaboration. We need to be really working alongside the large membership bodies already like the ICE or igem and really supporting each other in highlighting the good work that people are already doing and then making sure that's now the new standard. I know from speaking to my trustees, we all have our small goals in general that I hope constructability will be able to amplify. My four year old daughter. I'd love it if we could have one accessible play equipment piece in every new development because not only is it brilliant for disabled parents, but it should be a fundamental right for disabled children to be able to have that same experience. So you, if I guess at this stage we're trying to hear all the different views, see people's goals and try and support towards that and then once we start getting some funding we can sort of, I guess start to put those on the map and get them ticked off and really start creating new guidance, new governance. And even when we have our website running as well, that'd be a great sort of hub place as well.
Speaker B:Sounds like you have a lot to do next year. I think it must be quite important as well to have the support, you mentioned it before, to have the support of people around you, but also to have the support of someone like Southwest Water who kind of want to make, you know, work life as adaptable as possible for you.
Speaker A:Yeah. And constructability has been born from water, you know, pen and will always be a part of constructability's journey. And I think that's really brilliant because they did help me so much in my early career in many ways giving me education opportunities and the support that I needed. So it's lovely to see that they'll sort of, I guess, be captured in the history. The connections is a big one. So even sort of. I recently did a talk to all of the health and safety leads for the water companies across the uk was brilliant. You know, I've had them reach out asking me to do it to their supply chains and I think it just takes that one connection to then spark hundreds of others. And as I said, this can't be a one woman show or anything like that. So it will be then asking people like, I've got a colleague, Alex Bewley, he works for Mark McDonald and he's chartered now civil engineer. He'll be glad that I said that. But he's very much, you know, so keen to include even neurodiversity in the conversation. So I need to find these people who are brilliant and that are going to really sort of mention constructability when they also meet people and use it as a bit of a device to develop also spread the, spread the word.
Speaker B:And I think that's the key part as well because There could be so many other things as well that you can include like neurodiversity. You know, there might be things that by setting certain standards for a person using a wheelchair, it might actually make life easier for someone else and you hadn't even thought about it. But in their daily reality, this one adaption makes life so much easier as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's that bigger picture perspective and also looking at sustainability and all of that side of things. And I think we have so much work that we could be doing to positively. I always say tick it off a millionaire, but a lot of the time it does have to be a tick box because other people don't, you know, they don't do it otherwise. But to tick off so many different things in one and if it has to start from accessibility, well, what a brilliant place to start because everything, you know, we should be access for all, we should be catering for the needs of everyone in our society and if we can then start moving on from that and creating more green spaces or creating more community driven spaces and, or places for children to be set, all of that sort of stuff, it just comes from the basics. And I don't think at the moment we're quite hitting that criteria. And I think a lot of voices aren't in the room when big decisions are happening, which is a shame.
Speaker B:And I think that's part of like the women's utility network. We are trying to create that more diverse industry in terms of bringing more water into the utility industry. The same thing happens through constructability and through the efforts that many, many companies are doing with their individual networks to bring in general more diversity into the workforce and to make sure that people's voices are heard and also accommodated for.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I think we're at the time in utilities now where we're fighting for the same resources, we're fighting for the same people. And actually we can't be picky, we can't be discriminating against whole sectors of people because we need them and we need their skill and we need to be seeing people as individuals rather than just numbers. I think we've got about make sure I get this right. 96 billion set to be invested in water and sewage infrastructure between 2025 and 2030. So we do need people. And at the moment the disabled community is this sort of untapped resource that is currently waiting for the support. For me, going into work is more than just a paycheck, it is for mental health, it's for stability and it's for my own Progression and balance in many ways. And, you know, when you look at medically, everything like that, to have a stable job with support is going to be so beneficial for people, as long as we can make sure it's safe, flexible and, you know, the right thing for them at that time.
Speaker B:Absolutely. I think in the direction of also tapping this potential you mentioned before, obviously in just the water industry, we'll be. We'll be fighting for the best talent. But also obviously in other industries there are similar issues. And that's why I quite like that with constructability, you have this wide focus. You're not just limited on the utility industry, but you can literally, hopefully increase, include other industries where that change would benefit people with disabilities as well, to then have the chance to enjoy work and thrive in work and be their best selves. Because in the end, we all want to go home and say, we've achieved this today. We've had a good day, we've had colleagues around us that support us and we had something that mentally challenges us in terms of work. That's something where we learn, something where we come home and we have achievement, success, feeding, oh, 100%.
Speaker A:And, yeah, it's that value, isn't it, that it brings to us as individuals which we have the opportunity at the moment to unlock so many more people. And a lot of those people are the ones that really need it. So how exciting is that to be able to help people along the way? It's. I think we need to. When we talk about value, sadly, a lot of the time it is making it about money and how is it actually more beneficial to companies for making it more accessible and stuff like that. And there are lots of research out there to say more diverse teams create better products and end results and outcomes and all of that sort of side of things. I think. I think it's looking at it from the whole life cycle as well. In terms of. If you think about accessibility, as I mentioned at the start, you're not retrofitting, which is obviously hugely expensive. And actually it never is truly accessible because it's always the afterthought, it's always sort of squeezed in. And I think it's the value of their employees as well. So it's staff. So we do have three sort of targeted areas to help break down the goals, because otherwise there is kind of too much to do. And like I said, it's hard to know where to start until you get those voices in the room. So the three targeted areas are that we're encouraging disabled people into Construction, as I say. So looking at the recruitment process, how can we make that more accessible? The second is ensuring that people in construction, if they do become disabled while in the job or if they become injured, they can still do their role or an adapted role. So if someone's out of work, put them on a course to keep upskilling them, or can they use a piece of equipment that can still use their, still mean they can do their job. And then when you look at it like that, that means a reduction of lost time, injuries and the money that causes. And I think it's about just supporting the employees no matter what happens, if that makes sense because they're so valuable and so precious in many ways. And also we've got this massive aging workforce that is still expected to be doing the work that they were doing 20 years ago, which it just isn't practical or realistic. So that third targeted area to support our aging workforce is so important, number one, to keep them safe, but also to selfishly to try and keep them in the job for as long as possible. Because at the moment we don't have anyone to fill their gaps. So yeah, I think we're talking about value. We are going to have to pitch it in that money sense to companies. But I think it by far gives back its sort of worth in many, many different ways. So I just, I think it's that communication piece when we're speaking to people about trying to get the message across.
Speaker B:Especially when we talk about the water industry and UNPEI coming into effect in April next year. They are under serious pressure to deliver in terms of the desired results and what obviously governs them to deliver as well in a certain aspect. But there is a huge pressure in terms of resources and that is workforce. And with the three points that you just mentioned here, we can create a complete different scenario for people in the industry that will make it a lot easier for utilities and contractors and every employer basically in the industry to retain their staff. Because as soon as you know you've had something happening to you that's life changing, an injury or something, whether that's, that's on work or off work related, you then have a lot more probably loyalty as well to someone that has supported you, which in the end means you'll get the best out of that person because that person values what you've done for them and the person feels valued for who they are and who they bring to work every day.
Speaker A:And that loyalty that you mentioned is so rare I think at the moment. So if we can Try and sort of, I think, adapt a culture, I guess, in many ways, of that sort of sense of you're supported and, you know, you'll be safe with us no matter what happens.
Speaker B:Really brilliant.
Speaker A:I'll tell you an example recently as well, because I'm sure the cat will be out the bag before this go live. But I had a few interviews recently, actually, and had two offers. And the offer that I accepted was the offer because they said, come look around our offices. We've already spoken to facilities about access and we're able to do this. We've already got this. And they removed so much hassle and stress from me and they took that energy and sort of, I guess, did the work themselves. That actually, that's the company that I wanted to work with, not the one that offered a lot higher. Because for me there's different value. And that's just brilliant. We need to be doing more of that. I shouldn't have to be constantly advocating for my just my needs to get to my desk. And so many people have that struggle. So if we can have someone in our jobs and workplace that are there, stood next to you, supporting you. Yeah, it's brilliant. Rare to find, but we'll make that happen more.
Speaker B:Absolutely. Well, first of all, congratulations. Oh, thank you. But also, I love to hear this because I think we are changing. We are not in a world anymore where money dictates everything. We need to have that feeling of we walk in into a space that we feel safe, that we can see ourselves spending, let's be honest, the majority of our time during the week. Because even if you work from home, you are still with your head in the office. You are still talking to colleagues, customers, suppliers, whatever. So being able to then create a culture where people want to come and work for you is much more important than gaining a bit more money. But in the end, you're not in a mentally happy state. You might still be, but not as valued as you are when someone comes and makes these proactive accommodations or just cares about you as a human so much.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's that fulfilment, I guess, in many ways. And it is very emotional.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker A:I guess a lot of the time, the reminder of things you can't do when things are inaccessible. Before I was 18, I would never have thought about drop curve or, you know, how a handle works or anything like that, because I didn't live that perspective even then. Having my daughter, I then would start to think about drop curves and just thinking about how can I get the pram up and stuff like that. And I'll be being a full time wheelchair user. You know, I see the world from not my previous 5 foot 9 height. You know, I'm the size of my 4 year old in many ways. And it does change how you feel about yourself, it does change who you are, you know, you're nowhere near less valuable. And I've got so much strength now that I would never have had before. But I think to be constantly reminded, oh we can't do this or you can't go here, it does have an impact. So like you say, to have that sort of support from the people around you, to actually be ripping down those barriers for you, you know, I don't have enough muscle to do all of um. So yeah, it's brilliant and rare to find, like I say. But by talking about accessibility in your everyday conversations, it then becomes second nature to go, oh, is that meeting room accessible or is that training day? Can we make sure we put the access information on the invites? Because you know, people want to know someone might break their ankle the next day. You know, it's important for everyone as, as much as any dietary requirements. So yeah, we need to be thinking.
Speaker B:About that and I think by raising that awareness as well it will prompt prompt abled colleagues to think differently because it's not because they don't want to think about it, it's just they've not seen the world from someone else's shoes that has to ask these questions. And by then making people a bit more sensible to sensitive to certain topics, they then understand, okay, maybe I clear this before I invite me to a meeting or someone else, whoever it is, and I make sure that any person that I invite is, is feeling accommodated for and taken care of in this space.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's exactly. And Alex, I mentioned earlier we, we go around with the IT doing inclusive design workshops so we actually do more of a practical element. So I bring my spare chair with me and I will ask for volunteers and say, would you like to see how it is to open a door?
Speaker B:Simple.
Speaker A:A lot of the time we're in weirdly sort of actually accessible places because it'll either be at university or a workplace but actually you start to see, see the gaps and the floors even in these brand new buildings and you start to see I guess a light go off and they go, ah, never thought about that. And that's what we need to start doing more of because to have then their voice in the meeting amplifying disabled voices. You know, we can't be in sat there. So we need those people to advocate for us and it's brilliant. They start to realize, you know, the strength that you have to have. And then we think about if you wouldn't have core, you wouldn't have that muscle if you didn't have the dexterity in your hands. And it's understanding that the requirements for individuals are always going to be different. And I always go and tell people that we're never going to be fully accessible because in many ways we've got contradicting requirements that, you know, each person's different and even their day to days are different. So we're never going to be fully accessible. But it's having that conversation and seeing the value in those people and you.
Speaker B:Are at the forefront of raising the bar to have those conversations. And that's actually how, you know, I got to know you first because I found you on LinkedIn at some point and connected and then started following you and seeing the posts and the topics that you're discussing, which is obviously water industry based but very much your personal view of how you see the industry and the challenges that you have faced. And I think you know, you've recently been recognized as well by the Royal Academy of Engineering as a role model and you definitely are because you are making the way for people that are already in the industry and people wanting to enter the industry but struggling with maybe accessibility topics around being on site, being in an office. Because even being in an office sometimes can be challenging for people not from an accessibility point but from asking for certain accommodations.
Speaker A:Yeah, thank you. It does mean a lot and it's being a really, I mean selfishly in many ways constructability is being a really good focus for me when everything else is unstable. I mean when you've got medical appointments and I've got my fourth operation coming up, I'm trying to buy a house at the moment, my daughter's moving to school. You know, there's so much unknown that to have something really positive that you can put your energy into and know that even if it's sock tomorrow, at least we've started that conversation, as I say selfishly, has given me a lot of value and has actually made me quite motivated to move on, meet more people and then include that within my, my university work and include it within my day to day practice and you know, just, I guess it's the continuous learning even from my side because I do things wrong and I get nervous about making LinkedIn posts because I think have I got the right image descriptor have I, you know, done this and that? And I've had people say, actually Meg, could you change it? And, and that's what we need, we need the feedback, feedback. And I guess constructability is going to be creating that positive feedback for people then to learn from and change.
Speaker B:And I really like the piece there as well, where you said at the beginning of the kind of goals for constructability, where it's about the education, both for employers but also for people, what kind of support is available? Because I don't think it's often very clear what's out there and there's. I certainly know it from a partner with neurodiversity. There's a lot more than you can think out there that you can ask for, that you can get support with. And it's definitely worth having that conversation because then it might make life a bit easier for everyone also for the employer to then hire these kind of people that require certain accommodations to make sure that everyone gets to bring their best version to work every day.
Speaker A:Yes, it's trying to navigate them, which is always the terrifying bit. So I actually got £20,000 worth of funding from the Access to Work Government Granted scheme. I didn't know about it till a good few months into my job and actually when I went to my hr, they'd never done an application before, so we were sort of looking at each other like, oh, does this mean it's.
Speaker B:On me or on you?
Speaker A:And actually collectively together we put in the application, we explained why I needed this adaption or this, you know, electric motor on the back to help with sights. And now I've got this incredible custom made wheelchair that's got off road wheels, two powered sort of electric add ons, depending on what site I go on. And again, it's about that independence and that dignity and that gives me so much strength, knowing that I can go by myself and do my job and not have to rely on others, which is brilliant. But not many people know about it. It's hard to get through. Takes long time as well, over six months a lot of the time. And if you don't know anyone else who's used it, a lot of the time you don't know what they're looking for or what you're even looking for. I mean, they go to me, oh, what accessible, like equipment do you need? And I said, I was kind of hoping you were going to tell me yourself. But constructability hopefully will be a hub for that and you'll be able to find people who have similar lived Experiences that can support on those decisions.
Speaker B:I guess it must be quite overwhelming as well for, you know, like you said before, your HR department, they've never had to do something like this before. So it's a big learning curve. And I think the importance here is really to say you don't need to know what you need to get out of it. It's a process along the way and the questions will lead to the answers of, you know, like you said, I now have this off road wheelchair with batteries and with this and that added on to make it more easy. But probably at the beginning of it you didn't know that was exactly what you needed. So I think it's, it's about encouraging people to ask for the support and then as soon as you engage in the discussion, it becomes clearer what this support actually means and could be.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly. And like I say, it's different for so many different people as well. And as access needs change, you know, next year I might actually need a different type of equipment. So I think it's that constantly checking in as well and being like, are you happy? Have you got everything you need? Need? Is there anything more we can do? And that's all a lot of the time. Well, for myself that I want is just someone there to actually, if I'm having a really bad day or actually something's not working for me to go, actually, could you help with this? And that's what we need to be having better conversations about. I guess it's that person to person, deeper conversation.
Speaker B:Absolutely. But kind of being that role model as well for your 4 year old, how do you try and make her ready to face the challenges that the world holds?
Speaker A:Yeah, Olive, bless her, she is just. She's my motivation and she's my strength and she. We've had a difficult journey with my operations and me and her dad split up, but he's again, we're best friends, you know, he's the best dad anyone could ask for. So it's again, it's that support network that I'm so fortunate to have. I guess in many ways Olive's had to learn with me and that's, I think why our relationship's been more difficult. When she was little, I mean, she was born during lockdown, which I know a lot of mums struggled with. And then having my first operation and I guess not being able to do things that as a mum I had on my head that I expected I should be doing. And you know, this is the role that I have, you know, I'M not a mum if I can't do this. And when I was in recovery, it was then her dad that took a lot of the parental duties and stuff like that. So that then had a massive impact on my mental health. And actually it was really difficult because I wanted to give her so much and I couldn't at the time. But now coming out of that and the works really helped, actually work really focused my mind. And she loves it, bless her. I mean, her dad's a civil engineer as well. He is. We're both, I guess, in many ways, role models to her. But she comes home, she goes, I want to be an engineer. Not an engineer apparently, but an engineer. And she wears her little hard hat and I go, oh, you could be a project manager like Mummy. And she's like, oh, actually I might do that. And she now goes around, now that she's a bit older, she can open doors, she advocates for me. She goes, she literally, she goes up to cafe and this is like, it was this disabled loo for Mummy and you know, she's so many voices in one. I'm so proud of how she's, you know, gone through that because. Because she in herself had many emotions and she resented me for a long time. Cause it was like, well, I want daddy then if Mummy can't do it. So, yeah, navigating having a kid at 18 and within lockdown and then all of these different life experiences has been tricky on both of us. But she knows that she's loved, she knows that she's got the best people around her and I think that's all anyone can give. And yeah, I'm just so grateful that now it's just normal and she'll be the one going to tell her friends, oh, my mommy's in a wheelchair. You know, she's got light up wheels and stuff like that and making it more of a normal for everyone else, which is, as we say, it's that lived experience. You either have a colleague or a friend or yourself that are disabled. Otherwise a lot of the time you don't think about it. So, yeah, that's really exciting. And yeah, she's in every way my biggest achievement.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's so wonderful to hear you talk like this because it also shows the connection that you have. And although it was obviously a difficult journey in some ways, I think think you have the biggest advocate on your side there. And this is what's going to change the world. Because if we have people around us that start advocating for us, then change is going to happen.
Speaker A:Yeah. And she's brilliant. Like I said, being four and a half as well. It does start from a young age, that impact that we can have on people. And that's why I say to, if you're a STEM ambassador or anything like that, go speak to the primary schools. Those little brains are ready to be influenced in the positive way and they want to start their Lego building and all of this sort of stuff, or they want to learn why water comes out clouds and we can have such an impact and how brilliant and how rare is that to be able to do that in our jobs and within utilities. And I don't think many kids have a, an aspiration to go into water at the age of 10 or anything like that, but could we start to change that if we make it exciting and show them how critical it is and, you know, paint the picture that we live day to day.
Speaker B:Exactly. And the job that is involved as well, to get water out of your tap, it's not just, you know, putting a few pipes in the ground, but there's so much more around treatment and the quality of water and everything that's involved. So, absolutely, if we could influence children at that age to think a bit broader and what's actually possible, we could maybe generate that future level of staff that every company needs in the utility industry anyway.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Mek, for sharing your story. It is absolutely incredible. You are such a superstar. Please never, ever let anyone dim your lied because you've achieved so much and it is really, really incredible to hear what you have made out of, you know, your life changing event and then made it round into something that is so powerful and will change the world for many other people as well. Because if sites are just a tiny bit more accessible after the work that you started to do with constructability, you've already made a big change for everyone else.
Speaker A:Thank you so much, Leah. That's amazing. And if anyone wants to support as well, please do get in contact. We need voices, we need energy in people. So yeah, please, please do reach out.
Speaker B:Excellent. Thank you very much.