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WUN's mission is to help women to connect with other women, so they can share learnings, build confidence, and develop their own passion for the fast moving utilities space. Through our podcast episodes, we aim to provide our listeners with the skills they need to build long-lasting and fulfilling careers in the sector.
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WUN4ALL
Ep 71 #WUNCareerStores - Nuclear Power - How Operational Power Stations Provide Opportunities for Women
"Operational nuclear isn’t all about radioactive rods and scientists; there is a whole village of people that make power stations safely contribute to the UK’s energy mix."
In this latest WUN podcast Aimee Konieczny, WUN Advocate and Commercial Director at Indigo Swan, talks to Caroline Burgess, Enablement Manager – Single Integrated Delivery Organisation at EDF Energy’s Sizewell B Nuclear Power Station, about Caroline’s varied career across renewables, oil and gas, and most recently nuclear, and the skills she has learned and can now put into practice on a nationally important infrastructure site.
Caroline talks about the variety of roles available on power stations, living and working in a rural county and how she’s learned to deal with being the lone female voice in various male-dominated industries.
Welcome to the Women's Utilities Network One for All podcast. Our corner of the world where we'll be talking all things energy, water, sharing personal stories and debating female issues. Enjoy.
Speaker B:Hello, I am Amy Kinyechny 1 Advocate and Commercial Director at energy consultancy Indigo Swan. I'm a bit of an energy geek and I love learning everything possible about industry including having a tour of Sizewell B nuclear power station on my birthday. I am happy to welcome a guest for this podcast, Caroline Burgess, who is from Sizewell B itself. It's like I'm around celebrities. It's amazing. Here's a little bit about Caroline. Caroline is the Enablement Manager of single Integrated Delivery Organization at Sizewell B and she's been working in energy for the last 20 years, starting in renewables. Caroline began her career working on offshore wind turbines and quickly learned she had a passion for fast paced project delivery roles. After working in renewables, Caroline moved to the oil and gas sector working on large Capex projects in West Africa, then into consultancy where our paths actually crossed for a little while and most recently to operational nuclear at EDF's Sizewell B site in Suffolk. In her current enablement manager role, Caroline is committed to achieving Sizewell B's ambition to extend its operating life from 2035 to 2055 and beyond by leading the commercial delivery through continuous improvement. Welcome Caroline. Hello.
Speaker A:Thank you Amy. Firstly, thank you for having me. This is very exciting. It's my very first podcast.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm delighted to host you. It's my very first hosting of a podcast, so we'll go through this together. You've had such a varied and interesting career, Caroline. Please tell our listeners how you found your journey as a woman in several male dominated working environments from such a long age. What is it that you've learned about yourself and how to communicate with others when you might be the lone female voice?
Speaker A:So I think it's fair to say that my journey, like all journeys, have been one of discovery and evolution, both personally and professionally. So going offshore at 21 years old onto a large vessel in the middle of the sea as the only woman was pretty daunting. I was fresh out of university, I was full of these ideas and these ideals and within about a week I realized that they were just that they were just ideas and ideals and that reality was something completely different. I think that was my first big life lesson in the working world. So. So you can have all these thoughts about how things should be, but in reality something is very different just because that's not the Case it doesn't mean you should forget who you are and your values. And pretty quickly I think I realized I needed to work out who I was and what made me tick and where I could add value in this male dominated offshore construction world. I think that was key for me. Adding value. How could I use all these unique skills that we as women possess to bring something different to their way of working, the way they led teams and the way they get stuff done. Meetings were really typically full of loud talking, lots of, lots of opinions and quite a few disagreements and usually after all of that didn't actually end up making a decision. I'm pretty good at making decisions and I think give me the facts and I'm confident to put myself out there and make a decision and then drive it to conclusion. I think that was my USP and I quickly worked out I could add value by taking all that information, making a decision and then seeing it through to an outcome. I would say that was the beginning of my confidence building. To be heard as a lone female voice and definitely one I've never forgotten.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think I just can't even begin to imagine, one at 21 being a new graduate, two, being out on a boat in your first professional career, being surrounded by, you know, people that aren't the same as yourself, and then having to find yourself two at 21, that's just incredible.
Speaker A:And I think the key there is you can't begin to imagine because I don't think I did imagine, I didn't give it any thought if I'm really honest. Again, you have these ideas and these ideals. You come out of university, you've done well at university, you know, you've got this great graduate scheme and you think, I'm just going to go for, for it. And then I think when you actually land and I remember watching that boat sail off thinking, oh, oh, okay, here I am now, well, I better see what's going on then. I do think it was naivety to an extent, but I think that naivety and that innocence has really given me that push to do something different. And probably why my career has moved as quick as it has because I had that courage to go and do something a bit different.
Speaker B:It's certainly brave. Certainly brave. I think a lot of people get stuck in that kind of first career role post university and to just go and do something that was quite radical back then. I mean, going offshore now and going offshore as a woman now is probably a little bit more not mainstream, but kind of more expected, I guess. There's a lot more women entering that stage or that phase. But back then, not without making either of us sound incredibly old, it was unheard of. Really.
Speaker A:Absolutely. And I mean when I look back, the cabins were set up with four beds in each cabin and essentially you would hot bunk so you would swap over day and night. So they would allow a certain amount of people to be on the ship and I was the only woman so I wasn't allowed to hot bunk.
Speaker B:So oh my goodness.
Speaker A:And I mean I look back now and I just think it's mad and I think now we're getting to the point where there are more women going into these industries and they are offshore and it's not just the token woman, but we still have to think about those things. And I'm not quite sure we're there yet, but I look back and I just laugh.
Speaker B:Of course, that's just, it's, it's a different world, isn't it? And something that, you know, my professional career has only ever seen me in an office. So I've never had to think about, you know, the logistics of being a woman on a boat. But yeah, absolutely fascinating. I'm sure that we could probably do an entire podcast just about, about that. But we're here to talk about about operational nuclear and it's something that our listeners haven't had much of an insight into before. So most recently your career has taken you over to Sizewell B, an operational nuclear site. Many people might think that working in nuclear is literally just for scientists, engineers or construction like the new Sizewell C site, the Hinkley site, these big kind of nationally important infrastructure projects. But what opportunities would you say there are for people that don't actually have a STEM background? They're not scientists, they're not engineers. Are there opportunities for then?
Speaker A:So absolutely. So I think it's such a common misconception so that you have to be an engineer or we call them a new a nuclear scientist to have a career in nuclear. Absolutely not the case. Equally, I think people see these big construction projects and think this is the way into nuclear when actually operational power stations offer so many career opportunities at size will be alone. We employ in excess of 800 people a day just to run the day to day operations. And there's careers across maintenance, chemistry, environment, catering, domestic services, planning, hr, visitor center, supply chain, finance, all areas that are not technically technical roles. So I think with that, in addition to the fact that size will has that ambition to extend its life from 2035 to 2055 and subject to business case approval. We're building this big delivery organization as well, covering non technical roles. So that's across a wide range of roles from project management, cost control, planning, cad, qa, hse, program excellence, administration. So there's so many roles and responsibilities you can do that are not technical. I think the added benefit there at size will be is it's an established nuclear power station, so it's got processes, it's got procedures and 30 years of operational experience which brings structure, stability and ways of working that allows knowledge transfer and opportunities to move around the business trying different roles with the support of the businesses and edf. So I really would consider anyone that's interested in nuclear, that's not from a STEM background to really think about operational power stations and the opportunities that they can offer.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean you've listed off a great, a great long list of actual potential opportunities there and it's one of those things. It's like when you see the advert to, to join the army or whatever and it's like you don't just have to be a soldier, be in the army, like you don't just have to be a scientist to work in nuclear. You mentioned there around the whole catering piece, it's completely passed me by that of course you need caterers, of course you need people to do food and things. So what's it like day to day on. On an operational site with the. The security function and food function and. And how does that work?
Speaker A:Absolutely. I mean, firstly I will say we have fantastic catering, so we're very, very lucky. Absolutely brilliant there and really sort of availability of different catering, all different areas and times, which is fantastic. We are a 24,7 site, so we've got great catering. But there's opportunities to say within security. Working on a nuclear power station is of high security, always will be. We need to protect the people and the public, so there will always be an element of high security. But actually once you're on site, it is like working on a. In a small village, everybody knows everybody, you will walk around and everybody says good morning, good afternoon, good evening. As a management team, we're very much encouraged to be around sites. So we do time on plant, as we call it, and that's not necessarily just in the plant, that's in the offices working with the teams, very much promoting that nuclear safety culture, which is that open environment where people feel they can talk to anyone and everyone and raise concerns and areas for improvement. So we spend a lot of time day to day around site, doing that, integrating in with it and driving just operational performance as well as that project investment, delivery side.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, it's just, it is utterly fascinating. I think it's such a great big landmark in the county and just to know what opportunities there are locally, that. That's fantastic. And you know, we're both really fortunate. We're happily settled in rural East Anglia. We've been talking pre recording about imminent house moves, which is, you know, very exciting. I'm over in Norfolk, you're in Suffolk, but, you know, I'll forgive you for that. Maybe on the house move you can, you can move north of the water. Caroline for myself personally, I was really keen to find a success and engaging role where I didn't have to move to a big city like London or Manchester or whatever. Whereas your career, as we've already kind of spoken about, has taken you to travel. The world really is. It's been incredible. How have you found that experience of working both overseas but then coming back to a familiar location, albeit a rural county, but working on such a nationally important site? How's that been for you?
Speaker A:So, as you said, I'm Suffolk born and bred and 18. I just couldn't wait to get away the world. Suffolk was felt very insular for, for a young Budd female, I guess, and looking at what I wanted to do in the future. But I guess when you. It's very different when you hit 40, isn't it? So life feels very different. So it's interesting. When I look back at my career, I sometimes forget the varied roles I've had and the many different locations I've worked in. I guess I've never really had a plan, it just sort of happened. I always followed the areas interested me and would give me a different experience working. And I was really fortunate. Within energy, there was a thriving industry so I could bring my global experience back to the local market. So growing up I knew Sizewell B. I mean, it's iconic on the Suffolk landscape and I knew several people who have worked there, do work there. So it was a little strange coming into the business as a senior executive member, especially as I think people who knew me personally and don't know my career and experience to suddenly sort of be there leading a huge team. It's such a responsible role, it's a little bit daunting, but as I said earlier, it's a bit like a big family. Everyone helps and supports you, so it makes a transition so much easier. Now I'm living back in Suffolk, I can't imagine living and working anywhere else. So it's such a beautiful county and I love being able to leave work and drive to where I keep my horse and be able to ride and de stress so quickly. I actually did a really great recruitment campaign for Ed. They film me with my horse at my livery yard, showing what working in Suffolk can offer you and the opportunities that it has to have this great work life balance and not spending hours commuting. So I think it's absolutely fantastic. And I think that the experience that I have gained from all over the world, different cultures, different ways of working, different ways of doing things, has really helped bring me back to size. Well, and bring that outside perspective into an industry that sometimes can be a little insular. People grow up in the industry and they are looking to bring people in from outside that give you that different perspective. And I definitely think that opportunities that I've had taken advantage of helped that when I've come back to size will be.
Speaker B:I think there's a lot to be said there about that whole kind of sleepy county Persona that Norfolk and Suffolk in particular have. But I think you're absolutely right. People have to want to be here for a reason. You don't go to Norfolk or to Suffolk to go anywhere else. You are making a conscious choice to be here. And I think just from my view, you've obviously got Sizewell, you've got the Backton gas terminals, you've got some. All of the offshore work outside of in the North Sea and, you know, like the Thames Estuary and things. Because I think. I think we can probably, probably stretch it a little bit down to East Anglia. We'll cover off Essex as well. And I think there is a lot more happening in this region than people maybe think is happening. And yeah, I think it's great to have that opportunity. But is there anything. What would you say was the main thing that you've learned, especially from taking away the West African culture? What was it when you were there that you Kind of something that really stuck with you, that you've been able to implement, maybe not in this particular role, but in your life post West Africa. Is there something that has particularly kind of stuck with you?
Speaker A:I think it's adaptive leadership, actually. So I can imagine a different culture working in the UK in offshore waters with European people, to moving to Nigeria and working with Western African people and the different ways of things that are needed to get things done. And I've had to learn that it's not one size fits all in my leadership approach and My communication. So I think for me, when I first went into West Africa, I was very much quite direct. This is how we do things, this is what I want to do. And I worked out very quickly that didn't work within Africa because it was a different way of working. So it was very much about relationships and building those relationships and then making that decision and sticking it and driving through to it as well. Because there was an element of the Western culture that they were looking for guidance and I think I had to learn very quickly that culturally I needed to adapt my leadership style and that's been very helpful. Coming to work back aside. Well B where again, it's completely different culture. So I think that was probably my best takeaway from my time in Africa.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that's, that's. That whole relationship piece is just so vital and something that's becoming more and more. More important than business. You know, nationally, regionally, globally, whatever it is just how do you work on a. On a human to human basis really, isn't it?
Speaker A:But especially when I think we work, we still work quite remotely, you know, so everything we're doing with the podcasts we do, they're all done remotely. So actually how do we build a relationship where someone we might not actually meet face to face?
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely. I think it comes back around quite nicely to that whole village feel that you mentioned about working at Size well B and then those, the people that you get to see every day when you're on site and. And how of works together on the relationships you can build. So if we do talk a little bit more about Sizewell B itself. So it is the UK's only pressurized water reactor. It's got a generation capacity of 1.2 gigawatts, which is around 3% of the UK's energy needs. Feel like a proper. Like I could go on, on Mastermind or something with my size Well, B Star. It is the baby of the UK's nuclear fleet, but it is still 30 years old, having been commissioned in 1995. That makes me feel extremely old. It has got this iconic kind of golf ball design which you mention and you know, sort of prominence on the. On the coastline, which means it is a local landmark and it's loved and loathed by neighbors. As I mentioned right at the beginning, I've been lucky enough to visit the tour to go round the site on the ground, but I also actually flew above it in a friend's. This sounds very ridiculous. In a friend's private aircraft. I've got a Friend who does, you know, kind of sightseeing sites. And we did an energy tour of the county and it took us within specified safety parameters, but we went s. Well be away. But what is your data day to day working experience of the actual site? Is it full of radioactive green glowing rods like you see on the Simpsons? What is it like, you know, from when you swipe in to when you swipe out? What are you doing? How is it feeling? What is that kind of operational feel of a nuclear power station?
Speaker A:Only the odd blown going green rod. So only a couple. But seriously? No, not at all. So actually the exposure to radiation on a power station is no different to wandering around in everyday life. I think that's a common misconception regarding Nucle. So we have this motto. So nuclear safety is our overriding priority. It's literally at the forefront of everything we do and every decision we make. So no two days are the same, but there's always an overriding theme of nuclear safety which is ingrained into our working day. So it starts with our start of day brief where the entire station through a series of cascadence have a safety brief. So we have changing safety messages that reflect on nuclear, industrial, behavioral and human safety factors. So they cover themes and international learning to ensure that we're constantly at the forefront of continuous learning. So once that's done and we understand the operational priorities, we'll all start our day and this is where for me the variety really starts. So we're setting up cider at present. So I spend a lot of time doing the strategic long term vision. What do we want to achieve and how are we going to do it? As well as offering support to my team who continue to drive and execute the portfolio. There is a lot of stakeholder management and engagement through internal and external. So nuclear is such a hot topic at the moment that we spend a lot of time hosting visitors and supporting the long term vision of the energy supply to the uk. UK Personal development is really important at edf and I spend a lot of time working with my team to support their development stretch projects as well as my manager actually to support my own. EDF and the nuclear industry are fantastic at offering different opportunities, which I'm sure is why people tend to stay in the industry for so long. So you can literally feel like you have a new role and a new challenge by moving departments, which is brilliant. I absolutely love the variety and the challenges that every day brings. It keeps me engaged and always wanting more.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's just great. The piece around Opportunity and a simple switch within the same company. I think sometimes people forget that. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a massive corporate on the scale of edf, it could be in an SME changing department as well, having a different role. I think a lot of people, what's that mantra that you know, the grass isn't greener on the other side, the grass is greener where you water it. So if you actually stay within a company that's nurturing you by the sounds of EDF and sizeworld in particular, they're allowing you to grow, they're allowing you to flourish and you're giving that back to them. That's surely got to be a good thing as well, hasn't it?
Speaker A:Absolutely. And I think there's a really good example. We talked about careers for non nukes. I think it's really important to mention that actually people come into the industry and may start being a non nuclear and actually end up training and developing into a nuclear role and also vice versa. So people will come in as nuclear operators and we'll move into more of what we would call the non plant touching roles. And I think that's really interesting because it offers such a variety. So it literally feels like you're doing a new job and a new role within a new company, but actually you're still at size well being. There's such fascinating opportunities in that way and I think that's why they retain people so well, because it's really quite exciting. They recognize the ability to invest in people and a big part of my day is around supporting, coaching, educating, developing people as well as being coached and educated and developed myself as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean it sounds like a great place to work, like sign me up, it'll be, I'll be there, I'll be part of the SISAL team. I feel a lot of people, especially the young women who are going to be listening to this podcast, are genuinely going to consider a career in operational nuclear as a result of the experiences that we've spoken about yours today. So what advice would you give to these women starting their career in energy, or perhaps those who are currently in one area of energy and might be looking to switch to nuclear instead.
Speaker A:So firstly, I would say you've chosen well. So it's such an exciting time for the energy industry. I've literally never seen so much change and exciting opportunities. And of course, I think within nuclear especially, we're seeing something of a bit of a nuclear renaissance. So it's becoming cool and it's coming Sexy again. So there's longevity within not only the new build, but life extensions and defuelling, which was something that wasn't on most people's radars 10 years ago. And there's so many exciting opportunities, not only in operations, but in construction and supply chain areas. It's honestly just fantastic to see. So we talk a lot about transferable skills within nuclear. So I think in a world where people no longer necessarily look for jobs for life, and that's something that we've always offered, we recognize that with such demand on those good people, we need to work out how we get these people qualified to the nuclear standard, but quicker than it's traditionally taken, and then keep them engaged and retained with opportunity. So building skills from other energy industries, especially the likes of operational oil and gas or renewable assets, means people are already on that road to being used to working in a highly regulated industry. We're always looking for people to bring new ideas into the industry, ways of doing things more efficiently. And simply, they're the transferable skills that would add value and we would welcome.
Speaker B:I mean, this has been an absolutely fascinating conversation, Caroline, and it has been a real pleasure to talk to you today. Have you got any final insights or anything that you'd love to share with our listeners today?
Speaker A:Thank you. I mean, it's been fantastic. So I think what I'd like to leave with is so as a woman, I think it's finding your own style of communication and leadership and being true to yourself with your style. I found an amazing role model in still what is only my only female manager that I've had, and she really inspired me to be true to myself when it came to my working environment. I wanted to be an approachable, considered and organized professional. So I've needed to take the time to work out what that looks like and how to do it. It's a bit of a cheesy line I like to use that says, in a world full of lions, be a lion. Lioness, I love.
Speaker B:Like that. Like that.
Speaker A:I believe, I do believe that essentially what that's saying is we don't need to adapt to the environment we're in and become the lion. We can be who we are and use the skills as amazing women have. We need lions and lionesses and the woman. We have these skills that men don't have, so just use them.
Speaker B:Wow. I mean, what a cracking final insight there, Caroline. I think that is a fantastic way to end our podcast today and thank you so much for your time and yeah, definitely go and be a lioness in a prideful alliance like I. I love that. That's great. You. To all of our listeners today, I hope you found this podcast fun to listen to and it's prompted you to investigate careers in operational, nuclear, or indeed working in rural counties. You can subscribe to listen to more podcasts and follow one on all our social media channels. Visit www.theone.co.uk for our latest podcast events and how to become a member. Thanks for listening. It.