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WUN's mission is to help women to connect with other women, so they can share learnings, build confidence, and develop their own passion for the fast moving utilities space. Through our podcast episodes, we aim to provide our listeners with the skills they need to build long-lasting and fulfilling careers in the sector.
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WUN4ALL
Ep. 77 Neurodiversity - Sarah Wilson, Learning & Development at Valda Energy chats with WUN Advocate, Kerris Mackley
In this episode , we are joined by Sarah Wilson from Valda Energy to reflect on her journey being diagnosed with ADHD. From her journey at school and throughout her career, we discuss what it was like to navigate work and daily life without a clear understanding of neurodiversity, exploring the personal challenges and emotions that came with that experience. We discuss where individuals, managers, and teams can turn for reliable resources and support, and highlight the benefits that emerge when workplaces genuinely embrace neurodiverse talent.
Listen in to gain valuable insights into Sarah's journey and what businesses across utilities can do to create more inclusive environments and provide meaningful support for neurodiverse employees at every stage of their careers.
Welcome to the Women's Utilities Network One for all podcast. Our corner of the world where we'll be talking all things energy water, sharing personal stories and debating female issues. Enjoy.
Speaker B:Hello and welcome back to the Women's Utilities Network One for All podcast. We have a very, very exciting guest with us today. We are very, very lucky to wel Sarah Wilson from Valda Ng discussing all things neurodiversity and her journey. Sarah, I will I'll hand over to you to do an introduction. You will do it far better than I will, so please introduce yourself.
Speaker A:Hi, my name's Sarah. I've been in utilities for a long time, almost 20 years or so. Started off my journey in water and then moved on to the wonderful world of gas and electricity, which I've been there ever since. But yeah, my whole life has been utilities. I'm a bit of a neurodivergent champion in the workplace and being neurodivergent myself. And I'm also a huge nerd and like to attend comic cons.
Speaker B:Amazing. What an intro. Oh, we love it. So. And my name is Cerys Mackley. I'm a one advocate and have been for about four or so years. And once again, thank you so much for joining us today. Really exciting story. Really, really great insights that we're going to have today and really looking forward to hearing a bit of your story and sharing it with our network. Yeah, without further ado, I'll jump in and just wanting to hear about you and your story and really share some of those kind of key learnings insights that you have. So I suppose my first question, can you share your journey with us? Just a high level of where you started and also how you came to your diagnosis kind of later in life.
Speaker A:So during school I was always classed as a daydreamer. Couldn't concentrate on anything, was always the chatty one. So there was an instance back in school where someone was taking photos of everybody in the classroom environment and I, I was just looking around and I was like, why didn't he take a photo of me? Little did I realize my photo was in the paper a couple of days later saying that I was contemplating my next creation. Cause I was just sat there like. So that's probably one of the first signs of inattentive ADHD. But back in the 80s, early 90s, it wasn't a huge thing for girls back then. So I just got deemed all those things, could try harder if she only applied herself, all that sort of stuff. So, you know, you just sort of bimble along life thinking, yeah, I could do better, but obviously I'm not good enough. Fast forward to secondary school and I didn't do very well in my GCSEs purely because I couldn't concentrate on my homework. I couldn't concentrate in school because the subjects wasn't interesting to me. Science, practical, great, I could get on with that, I could do it. But anything where I had to put pen to paper and think about things, I just couldn't concentrate. So I left school with very little qualifications, sadly. I went to college. I did a course I Business administration, something that, you know, relatively straightforward to do because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I dropped out in my second year to, to work full time. And that's when I started my journey in utilities at Thames Water. So I worked in a call center environment. It was, you know, you're on the phones, you have to deal with stuff as it comes along. So I was absolutely fine with that. And I know with a lot of ADHD people, they jump jobs a lot because they find it boring or it doesn't interest them anymore. I just moved departments.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So I just went to different teams. I was, I was there for 13 years doing various different jobs and then I moved into. I moved to Oxford with my partner and I started working at British Gas. But I was still, like, I had good days where I was really productive and then I had days when I was just staring at my screen and I couldn't. Couldn't fully engage with what I was, what I was meant to be doing, but I didn't know why. So I then joined Valda Energy five and a half years ago, nearly six years ago now. And I was doing a very structured role. I was in collections, I was. My day was very structured and I was doing really, really well. And all of a sudden a job in learning and development came up. Because I've always supported people, I've really enjoyed that. I got the job and put me in a training room in front of people, absolutely fine, I can perform, so to speak. But then it got to the point where my boss was saying, okay, we need to research and write a course on X. So I was looking at it and I was like, okay, brain, kick in, kick in. And I have been sort of looking at things in social media recently about women with Neurod. And before that I was like, that could be me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I was, I was like, okay, so that could be me. Some of these traits, some of these videos I'm seeing You know, it. I resonated with them. And when I, when I started doing this job, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna go and get myself on the list for testing. And now the list is long, so I went down the right to choose through the NHS. So it's a private provider that support the NHS, so the wait lists are long. Took me 10 months from referral from the doctor to day of diagnos. I was diagnosed with inattentive, mainly inattentive, adhd, which now I have to wait further seven to ten months for medication. But it's a long journey. I think I knew. I think I knew, but then the. When someone else told me, that was an emotional moment. So I went through everything. So I was, I was crying pretty much throughout the whole thing. Yeah, I was hopeful because I knew that there was. I feel valid. I feel like there's a reason and I can work on that reason. However, I did feel incredibly sad for the teenager who struggled through school, through the child who just didn't get on with her work. It's even making me emotional talking about it now. But I was like, what could I have done? What could I have been? I mean, I love my life, don't get me wrong, I love my career, I love my life, but what could I have done had I had the right treatment and the right knowledge back then when I was younger? So, yeah, it's been a journey.
Speaker B:Yeah. And I think, you know, it's. It's super interesting to hear, you know, from where you are now with the diagnosis to kind of that full journey and where that manifested when you were younger versus how it manifests now, and I think to finally reach that diagnosis, unfortunately, as long as it takes, must have been a really huge moment. And I think, you know, picking up on a few things, what you said about women understanding that they're neurodiverse through social media wouldn't be the first time. I think we're. The understanding of how adhd, autism, all of these kind of various types of neurodiversity look in women is still really, really developing. And I suppose, you know, we've talked about how kind of your feelings in your journey, but looking back, what was it like kind of navigating that. That work and daily life and understanding kind of before and post diagnosis.
Speaker A:So before diagnosis, you sort of resign yourself to the fact that you're just lazy. You have these moments where you, you just sit there focusing on one thing or you. Even in my home life, for example, you take a day off work and you're like, I'm going to sort out this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do everything. I'm going to change the world. And then you just get up, you have your breakfast, you scroll through your phone for a bit or you put a movie on, and then all of a sudden the whole day's disappeared. And then your partner's coming home from work and was like, I thought you were meant to be doing this. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, having that understanding, because I used to kick myself and it used to cause arguments, and it's just having that forgiveness for yourself goes a long way. I had a day the other day where I was. I was just so overwhelmed.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:This was at work. I had lots to do and I just couldn't focus on any of it. So I was flitting around between jobs and I was like, okay, so I just need to go sit outside for a bit. And I just took five minutes to refocus, went back again. But sometimes I'll have days where I have to just go, I'll do something for 20 minutes and then I'll go off and have a breather, come back again. And it's about recognizing when you're having those days, especially being unmedicated. So, I mean, I know the medication is not going to be a miracle pill. It's not going to, you know, magically fix every single problem that I have. But knowing and acknowledging when you are having times where you're not fully up to speed and being able to be vocal with the people around you about it. And I find that I do let people know. Some people don't. But I just say to Tom, I'm. I'm particularly tired today. I can't focus. I'm just going to concentrate on x, y, z. Yeah. And then it's just a deeper understanding because if I don't get everything that I should do done, at least I'm still reaching out for that support.
Speaker B:And that's like such a powerful thing. Right. Being able to. And you know, the diagnosis confirms this right of understanding and being able to put a name to these feelings, getting process and how you're working. And I think, you know, my personal belief is very much is that neurodiversity is diversity of thought. Right. So having these people, you know, having these kind of variations of thought process in your teams is super, super valuable. But equally, as I said, sometimes that comes with challeng challenges and things that we've got to negotiate and ways of working etc. And I suppose from your perspective, you know, living, breathing in and also sharing out with your teams in your learning and development role is where can you know you've spoken about it as well. Where can individuals and managers and teams as well businesses find reliable support kind of resources and also, you know, where, where can, where can we help? What are those kind of daily interventions and what are the resources that are available to help people on this journey?
Speaker A:So for an individual, I think it's different for everybody. Everybody who is neurodiverse has different needs and even people with all women with ADHD do not have the same traits, same symptoms and things like that. It's about voicing what you need at that time. I highly suggest if you do feel that you are neurodivergent is to go down the steps you need to seek a diagnosis. It's a validating feeling. It stops you from being so hard on yourself. Get down that doctors try and get a diagnosis diagnosis or if it's say for example, another neurodivergence such as dyslexia, dyscalculia, any of those, go to your hr, get occupational health involved, see if there's any way that you can get yourself assessed. If you've got private health care or anything like that, check that out as well. Always just tell your team, just tell your line manager if you feel like you can't tell your line manager, tell your HR or some someone you trust within the business who might be able to take those steps or give you advice. EAPs are very important from like mental health perspectives. We do have a really good eap. We have Vitality Health Healthcare here at Valda for support. So if your companies do have that, then absolutely lean on them. But the. I found the right to choose one the best for me because in our area the waiting list for NHS is locked down at the moment. But now, now I am on that list. I'm not with a quicker provider. There are quicker providers out there, but yeah, I have, I am in the process. If you like, your HR teams will have a wealth of knowledge. I know there's always the CIPD which, which a lot of people rely on, but we use a company called Lexic and Genius within for our support that with our neurodivergent colle and I did a course with Lexic about different types of neurodivergence actually led me down a hole of dyscalculia which I didn't really think I knew about it, but I didn't know a lot about it, and I fell down a hole of researching about that. But that then led me to wanting to raise awareness within my own company. And I've actually done a workshop around neurodivergent awareness, making people aware that there are no neurodivergent members of the team. So we've tailored one for everyone, but we've also tailored one a little more towards managers and the support they can get for their neurodivergent employees. There's also. I mean, some companies may have, like, networks.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So as companies grow, you can get a network for any D. And I subject. I'm quite keen to get a neurodivergent group going and maybe a menopausal women group as well, which is something that also affects ADHD as well, just to make you guys aware, which is also great fun. I have that on top as well. But I think also with teams and businesses, it's about bringing in the DEI die. It's about making people aware that it is a situation, but it's also making people aware that you don't have to be diagnosed in order to get that support. If you find yourself just, like, fiddling with things all the time, maybe a fidget tool of some description might be beneficial to you because you might just be, like, picking up your phone and just looking at. You may not be scrolling, but you're just, like, finding something to do with your hands. I've got a fidget ring that I just sit there and mess with. Some people might have jewelry and all that sort of stuff, so anything that would help and support maybe the environment, like allowing someone to have headphones or maybe moving them to an area that's not so bright, because sometimes it can be sensory, light, things going on, but just listening to the individual, listening to what they feel like they need. They may not know that they need stuff, so you may suggest stuff to them that might help them that they don't necessarily feel like they need. But I've just ordered a bunch of squishy cubes.
Speaker B:Yes, the good stuff. The good stuff. Yeah.
Speaker A:Squishy cubes for when, like, I've. I've ordered one for myself, but I've also ordered some for our members of the team because I. There was one. One I noticed they had a stress ball on their desk and it was absolutely annihilated. And I've got. I have one of those. You know, those 3D printing dragons that move.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, I had one of them on my desk. But I was like, here you go. This one's a bit more sturdy. Sit there and play with that when you're on course. But little things do make a huge difference.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, as you said, it's those, those kind of interventions that are, you know, can be really, really small but can make a meaningful difference. I work, someone I used to work with, used to always used to kind of run training workshops and used to always bring a plethora of various kind of, I don't know, springs, coils, you know, and, and the, the transformation that that had in a workshop was quite fantastic because if you were in a full end to end day workshop, it was, it was quite, quite amazing. I think as well to your points around diagnosis. I know, you know, it's super hard route and I think it valuable thing and it's really, you know, it's kind and really great that you're sharing kind of that feeling of actually I understand now and I can put a label to what I'm going through and how it affects me and that kind of internal, actually I'm not lazy and this is something I'm experiencing. And then how that in turn, I think can transform how you as an individual see yourself, how you see, you know, your value. And I think, I think it's a really, really important and valuable message is that you're not, you said you're not lazy, this is not a problem. But actually, you know, you just, it might be a 3D printed dragon, right? Yeah, yeah. It's also great to hear you kind of championing broadly in your workplace and I think, you know, we all need those people in our organization. So I'd love to ask and understand is what benefits have you seen in the workplace when you kind of truly embrace neurodiverse talent and support neurodiverse talent to the max.
Speaker A:So speaking from personal experience, I think my work have been incredibly understanding. I've let them know every step of the way what's been going on from when, when I put the referral forms in after they were sitting in my bag bag for six months. Classic. So from putting in the forms all the way through to, to my diagnosis, they've been incredibly supportive if I've needed anything. There have been moments where I've needed time off to go for blood tests, for appointments and all that sort of stuff which, which they've absolutely supported. But I think having the people there to sort of be like, I'll go into a time where I had a couple of meetings lined up with some people that are, are quite high up and I Was concentra else I did not look at my calendar and I missed two meetings and like I said, they were both quite high up people now where I've been open and I did a post on LinkedIn about my diagnosis and how I was feeling. People did understand a lot better. So I walked up to one of them and was like, I'm really sorry, I've. I was just head down in what I was doing. I didn't look at my computer, I am so, so, so sorry. And she just looked at me and goes, is that your adhd? And I was like, yeah, I'm really sorry. And having that, you know, she could have got really angry about that but she wasn't, she was like, okay, so I understand that it's not the end of the world, let's reschedule, you know, let's do it again. So people are really understanding because I've publicly said that. Whereas if I did not let people know that could have been quite detrimental and it could have been like Sarah's lazy, she doesn't tempt me and she always forgets what's she doing. I did actually ask to have my outlook maybe on my personal phone so it would come up on my watch and remind me use of tech. But there was those sort of pushback between work, life balance. So we are currently looking for another way to me to be reminded. I've touch wood, it's not happened since and I don't think it will because I'm hyper aware of the situation.
Speaker B:Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker A:But I want, I do, I just wouldn't mind just like putting something in place. I am always constantly looking at my calendar now because I have learned that lesson. But you know, who's to say that one day I might just have my head away from my screen at one point during the day and completely forget and it happens and it, it, it does. But I think sort of like just having, having that support and knowing that people are aware really goes a long way because you do get some leeway in certain things. I might have a project and I certainly know my boss does this with me, he will give me a tighter deadline than what I actually need it to be so I can then work towards that deadline. So if I know it's two weeks away, I probably won't start it until a week's time. But if I think it's only a week away, I will work towards that and get that done early so it can be checked, verified it and made sure it's all good. So having those things in place for me personally, I feel has really helped me and having that support network there has helped me thrive. Whereas before I may not have said something, I may have just taken the hit of being late or not having that thing in on time or not getting that thing done. But yeah, I think having that support and knowing that that support is there, it helps me thrive. From a personal perspective, I, I mean I can't, I can't speak for anyone else that I work with because everybody's plan is different and everybody's status is different. But I can certainly attest for myself that, yeah, having that right plan in place for me has certainly helped me overcome a lot of things.
Speaker B:And I think that is super, super important kind of message as well on the headline. Because I think ultimately if you're a business over a certain size, you're almost 100% likely to have a neurodiverse person working for you in some capacity. So these are the people that are in your business and it's how you get the best out of that person and how you want them perform. So it's probably talent you've already got in place. It's also potential talent that you might be hiring, you might be bringing in. Right. And I think there's a super important thing of how do we help people perform the best? And you know, I, I say this, you know, you're, you can hear it from your speaking today. It's your passion and your engagement and your ability and also that hyper focus when it kicks in and you want to get something done on a deadline.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:These are all brilliant things that businesses can benefit from, from and, and it's, it's really, it's great to hear an environment where that is, you know, really allowed to thrive and enables you to, to do the best, which is great.
Speaker A:Absolutely. So I attended the DEI conference back in London a month or two ago and it gave me food for thought on how we can sort of from the application to, throughout the career support anyone. So I just want to highlight this because I didn't realize this. So say, for example, you've got a person who's autistic looking at a job spec and they're looking at that job spec. And a lot of autistic people are very literal in their thinking. So if it gives you a list of requirements needed, if they don't check off every single point on that requirement, they're going to be scared to apply for that job. Even from tailoring that job spec to, you know, have a list of things that are potentially required but have even desirable but not critical to the role. If you feel like you would be a good fit for the team, please apply. Changing that wording, being very clever about it. To encourage people who are neurodiverse to apply for jobs, we had someone request the interview questions in advance so they can prepare for that. Having those things in place and being able to provide that to a Neurodiverse person. You don't even have to be neurodiverse to ask for these questions. And I don't know why people don't think of this before, you know, before just knowing what you're gonna say because quite often, I mean for me as an ADHD person, I'll quite often talk, just talk. It doesn't have to be relevant, I'll talk. But for someone who is potentially autistic and, and needs to know what they are talking about, can't be put on the spot. That's something that is very person who may be a super duper fit for the role but just doesn't do well in that sort of situation.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:You know, you're losing talent because you are putting them on the spot. And that can come across as not interviewing well.
Speaker B:Absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, on top of that if you, you know, women's utilities network, women are already less likely to apply for jobs than men. And then if you have neurodiversity on top of that, it's. Yeah, it's. It's a really, it's a really interesting, a really interesting thing I suppose kind of my, my last question for you Sarah is around what can we do as businesses in general, but also our industry we're in utilities is, is what can we do to better support Neurodiverse employees at all stages of the career. So whether you're kind of entering maybe graduate apprentice level versus kind of, you know, really senior professional down the end. What can we do as an industry at that level to. To support.
Speaker A:I think first things sort of with the application process make it sort of a bit more accessible. Make it. So if it is, if it is, for example an entry level job, have the requirements but have the, have like I said, with the desirable thing and all that sort of stuff from the start, sort of play to the strengths and listen to that person. If that person, you may be working in a call center that say strictly no phones or strictly this and strictly that. But if that person's stim for example is just scrolling or they may need to take five minutes just to scroll, let them do that let them have their fidget toys. If it is a call center, you may not want the noisy clicky ones, but you might want one of the stress cubes. Having that, like knowing that person if they are heading towards a situation where they are potentially burning out, letting them go and have extra breaks, maybe just make people feel valid. Don't dismiss it and be like, everyone's got a bit of ADHD in them. Everybody's on the spectrum, you know those sorts of things. But listen to them and support them as, as they see fit, whether they've declared a neurodiversity or not, or if you suspect, but just be there to guide. Also having the strategies in place for all DEI meaningful initiatives and not just tick box boxes.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Having that support available to everyone regardless. It's about the value, it's about the appreciation. And as someone with adhd, I like to feel valued. I like to know that I'm doing a good job not to have someone completely dismiss everything that I do and then pick on the little things because that makes you feel super bad. It makes you feel like you're worthless. I mean, I do make a joke with my, with my boss and he goes, can I have a word? And I'm like, am I packing my stuff? But sometimes when it's unexpected, deep down I'm like, oh no, oh no, oh no. Am I actually getting fired when I've done nothing wrong? And I know I've done nothing wrong, but it's the natural thing. So knowing the people that you're working with, if you've got a person who's, who doesn't like surprises, who doesn't like finding out big critical things in a group setting. Yeah, maybe taking them aside before it happens and just making them aware of the situation so they can prepare for the group session. You know, little things like that will make it make a world of difference and make everyone feel valued and, and supported. And that's the main thing. It doesn't take a lot, it really doesn't take a lot to make a person who is neurodiverse supported, whether it be different, different software needed for someone who's dyslexic, maybe different types of tasks or slightly different tasks or having just little things there for someone, it's not expensive, it is just support once it's in place. It's like having someone with the back problem, you know, maybe giving them a special chair or just a backrest or something like that can make them feel more comfortable, can make them feel. Feel supported and and welcome basically.
Speaker B:Yeah. And also, well, help. Help performance and help them to do, to do their work and do their job.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I think it's a really, it's a really interesting thing and that kind of, it's about treating everyone as having a bit of that individual view and as you said, you know, regardless of diagnosis or those kind of things, but actually taking the time and the energy to just lift the head up and have that individual view of this is this person and this is how they perform best and how I can help them is. Yeah, you know, it's a really amazing message and a really, really encourag. I think, you know, there are people of all different, you know, various neurodiversities in, in your workplace right now and it's how we can work together to support everyone and to get the, the right resource out there. So, Sarah, thank you so, so much for joining. Massively appreciated. Any closing words or closing reflections from you?
Speaker A:Now you put me on the screen. I just think, you know, obviously I'm, I'm open to this is going on LinkedIn. If anybody wants to ask me any questions about the way I work or my journey, I'm absolute to ask me. I'm not shy as you can tell, but I think we just need to sort of like work harder just including everyone from any perspective, any walk of life. I think treating people as individuals other than numbers really, really helps. And I think I've been quite fortunate in joining this smaller company where sort of people know my quirks and people get used to, to me being me and I, I've. I've finally found a company that I work for. I, I mean don't get me wrong, all companies I've worked for have been great but this company really sees me for who I am and what I can do because it's a smaller company. So I think that anybody, regardless if you are going to, if you feel like you need to get yourself diagnosed or if you feel like you are neurodivergent, get yourself down that path. I can't say it enough. Since diagnosis, I've really sort of come a long way. I've still got a long way to go, but still I am learning now the way I am.
Speaker B:Amazing and thank you so much. Really appreciate it and sharing. I know it's a super, super great to hear your own personal story and to see where you are. So thank you so much everybody for listening in to the One for All podcast. If you're not already, please do sign up to our network and subscribe. You can check out all of our upcoming events and upcoming goings on, from podcasts to mentoring on our website. And thank you so much for joining.
Speaker A:Thank you very much. Touch.