Israel & Rachel Campbell "SOUP" Podcast
Join us for an exciting Season 2 of our podcast, which garnered over 7000 downloads last year! Your hosts, Rachel and Israel Campbell, are back to take you on an incredible journey. In this podcast, we invite you into the ongoing dialogues about life, love, parenting, relationships, spirituality, and whatever else sparks our interest!
Our motivation for creating this podcast remains unchanged: we believe that discipleship should encompass more than just a classroom experience; it should be a way of life. Drawing inspiration from Jesus' interactions with his disciples, we see that it was far from a traditional classroom setup. Instead, it was a continuous exchange of teachings and discussions encompassing all facets of life.
Imagine savoring a delicious bowl of soup – that's what our podcast is like. We're here to engage in honest and unfiltered conversations, covering a wide spectrum of topics. And now, we invite you to share this podcast with your friends, family members, or coworkers, just as you'd share a great meal. Just like Jesus and his disciples, we're here to explore the richness of life together!
So, come join us for another season of candid conversations as we dive into a little bit of everything – from the profound to the lighthearted!
Israel & Rachel Campbell "SOUP" Podcast
Israel & Rachel Campbell "SOUP" Podcast Season 2 Episode 19 ''Who needs enemies with friends like this"
Friends can be our greatest allies or our unintended nemeses during life's more turbulent chapters. Our latest episode wades into the complexities of support systems against adversity, as exemplified by the biblical Job and his circle. You'll discover the nuances of advice that aims to uplift but sometimes misses the mark, and we'll share personal reflections on finding the balance between truth and encouragement. There's a candid exploration of how our words can impact those grappling with trials and the vital role of empathy and unity within the Christian community when standing against societal challenges.
Treading carefully through the minefields of public discourse, we unravel the art of graceful communication. Inspired by C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity," we dissect the importance of presenting a cohesive front in faith conversations and the transformative power of gentle correction. The episode contrasts the wise counsel of Nathan the Prophet with the abrasive tone often found on social media, inviting listeners to embrace humility and discretion. We dissect the pitfalls of speaking with certainty about God, a lesson underscored by the error of Job's friends, providing a poignant reminder of the weight our words carry.
As we wrap up, the spotlight turns to the transformational nature of the Word, steering us from using sermons as platforms for indirect reprimand. We delve into the significance of the Holy Spirit's guidance in cultivating relationships that allow encouragement to flourish. Our narrative concludes by encouraging you to share the comfort found in God's message, emphasizing the cascading effect of positive affirmation on the individual and broader community. This episode promises to arm you with insights for uplifting those around you, ensuring that encouragement echoes throughout your interactions.
Yes, we are back and I cannot believe you don't have a sweater on. It has been raining for four days in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2:I'm cozy, oh I could be rainy, but I love it, since we are originally from Seattle.
Speaker 1:You feel like home and I feel more like Noah's Ark. I've been trying to think of some kind of Instagram post to say something like if this is only four days of rain, what would we have done when, back in the days when it rained 40 days, I would have broke onto the Ark and remove the unicorns and remove the mosquitoes and been salmon. Yes, done something crazy.
Speaker 2:But you know what, like LA is so dramatic, really? Because they are acting like this is the end of the world, because we've had four days of snow or rain not even snow. And I'm like there's a reason why Hollywood is in LA, because we love the drama.
Speaker 1:We love the drama. If there's not one thing, it's a drought, if it's not, that it's raining too much, but yeah, but we are praying for all those people that are affected by it and all that kind of stuff. So, new podcast today and we are talking about something I'll give the title right here, with friends like this, who needs enemies and again, we always say this about the Campbell Soup podcast is that it always usually comes in our conversations, whether it's on a walk or in the car or in passing. It seems like sometimes that's like that because of the seasons we're in, but we're always talking about something. And this actually came from my devotion so far this year and I'm reading all of the, you know, just going through the devotions that they give you, like the scriptures to read through the year, and it's the book of Job.
Speaker 1:And I have read Job, you know, several times through the years and stuff. But this year in particular, I'm like looking at it with this new lens like never before and just really like what. And Job can be a complicated book. It can, you know, be hard to understand. It's a book that shares a little bit about suffering. But one of the things that just jumps out to me is Job's friends, and so that goes with the title. With friends like this, who needs enemies? Rachel, have you ever had some friends that were kind of like Job's friends?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say that I have. Do you know, honestly, if I'm really looking back on my life, the thing I would say, the people that were maybe more discouraging than encouraging were family, and I love my family to death. But I think the people that can be closest to us can, almost in the name of being protective, speak things that are pretty discouraging. Or maybe they're just not hearing from God for the season of life we are in and, in good intent, they're saying the wrong thing. I think all of us can fall into the trap of that, and I think that's kind of what Job's friends did. They were probably good guys in a and that was a big blip in their life. I'm praying.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, and just kind of, if you're not aware of the story of Job, it's actually, you know, it's in the middle of our Bible, so we could kind of think that it happened maybe more towards the middle, but it's actually historically about the time of Abraham, and so it's more like in Genesis is where that story is taking place and one of the key moments I guess there's so many key moments but one of the key moments is towards the end of the book, where God asks Job to pray for his friends, and God also rebukes Job for some of his attitude, but he also rebukes his friends for being wrong, and I think that that's the part that just blows me away is everything that you read. When you read about Job's friends, they all quote scripture. In a sense, they all have these 95% truths. But if that 5% is wrong, you're totally wrong, and that was what God did. Is he rebuked them for, like you think you have it right and you're actually wrong, and I think that that is such a great conversation to have and I think it helps us. Like, what you said earlier is are we encouraging or discouraging? And so we kind of want to talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1:Today is in a world where everyone is pushed to have a comment. You said the other podcast a couple of podcasts ago like I don't even really want to know the post. I want to read what the comments said. And we live in this world where never before when we were raised, of course no social media, no platform to even have a grievance or to be even told what you thought, in fact, kids were to be seen and not heard. And now we are making up for lost time and really saying some things, and I just reading the story of Job makes me. When I read it and I read the story of his friends, it really humbles me and I begin to repent because I'm like God. Please help me not be that person that has partial truths but really is airing on sharing your heart about somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's a fine line. You know, there's seasons when God will ask us in certain situations to speak up, and you know, I think about Nathan the prophet, and he said you are that man too, david, but he went before David with fear and trembling, you know, and he really had to weigh the consequence of that. And so there are seasons when God is asking us to maybe be used to bring correction, but it's always out of a place of. I think the difference is humility, the humility, and we live in a world where we need to be unified as the church. We need each other more than we've ever needed it.
Speaker 2:Church is under attack when Christian ideology, like anything that we believe, our Christian faith, it's under attack by culture, then it's so important to recognize the need for unity, and what we're seeing right now is kind of a Job's friend syndrome, where there's these leaders and Christians that are attacking other Christians. And maybe we could just have the conversation today to open up conversation for you, maybe in the Word and with God, on what is our stance on other believers that don't believe or aren't living exactly how we're living. What has God called us to do? Are we called to be the Holy Spirit in their life? Have we been anointed and appointed as the one who knows all and is the only one that the Holy Spirit can use, and are we to sit in a seat of judgment? What does the Word of God say about those kinds of things and that spirit?
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it, I love this conversation. Eugene Peterson said this that sufferers attract fixers, like roadkill attracts vultures, and so what we have to be careful of is trying to fix everything, and I think that that's a really like you said earlier. You're kind of like I don't think Job's friends really had this malicious intent, but it is that we try to fix things and we try to be the Holy Spirit for people and we actually that is not what our job is to always do. And I really like what you said is that there is a time. You know, ecclesiastes says there's a time for everything and so getting the right timing.
Speaker 1:But some people think that it is always the time to go into the temple and updo the tables. But that only happened once with Jesus. It wasn't the consistency of his ministry, and so some people are just table throwers and that's all, but they're never the part where after that he invites the blind in and he lays hands on them. You know what I mean. So there's just this balance of theology, balance of timing, like you said, and it's so important to do that, and I just love that. Cs Lewis used to in his book Mere Christianity. There was some things that he would say hey, I'm not even going to discuss this because this forum is open to non-believers, and so we're not going to talk about the differences between us as Christians in a forum that has unbelievers in it, because that will only weaken somebody's choice of faith and I just always thought that that was so wise is absolutely.
Speaker 1:we're going to have disagreements and absolutely we should be adamant, not wishy-washy about some of those, and we should talk about it. We have to be aware who's listening and who's watching. Is this social media platform where you're really going to change somebody's mind? I mean, how many times, rachel, have you had somebody post something Jesus Jukyuu on something and it just really brought the conviction of the Holy Spirit and you changed course? You know what I mean. So, and was it good for everybody else to see that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if we are called to bring correction, it's always out of a place where it's it's humility and it's not. I'm doing this and you're not, and so therefore you are the worst. You you know. Name calling that is, name calling to other believers is not godly in any way, shape or form, and belittling posting. You know, if you're posting about someone that you don't think is theologically correct, your just is wrong because you're bringing judgment on a fellow believer, and so we have to be aware that you know you could be doing the right thing in the wrong way and be just as wrong as the person you're trying to bring correction to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the heart of God never dishonors people. The heart of God, god's nature, when he does correct and when he does. I want to read this scripture first, because it's so good, and it's Romans 2, verse 2 through 4 says you therefore have no excuse. This is. I love this because it doesn't mean words. This is just telling us how. It is you who pass judgment on someone else, for whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself because you who pass judgment, you do the same things. You're not holier than thou.
Speaker 2:I think that's something we need to all be very aware. First is us. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such thing is based on truth. So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead others to repentance?
Speaker 2:And I love that, because the whole goal is to lead others to repentance, and if we see somebody that's not doing the right thing, our heart should be grieved and wanting their heart to turn toward God so that they can live a fruitful life. And I just feel like there's this almost a competitiveness or a righteous indignation that I don't feel the heart of God on it at all when we're just judging fellow believers on. You know whether that's women mad at preachers who don't believe in male preachers. You know what I don't love that. There's a lot of pastors and preachers who don't believe in women preachers, but I can be just as wrong as them if I start attacking them, calling them names. I mean, two wrongs never make a right, and I love this verse because it's just reminding me I have failings too, and do I want to be judged by the law or do I want to receive the grace of God, because it's His kindness that leads all of us to repentance?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just don't see the fruit of the Spirit in always attacking. You know what I mean and, like you said, even when Nathan the Prophet talked to David, he had a relationship with him and you know he had built that relationship and then there was some wisdom on. You know, that whole is a whole, another story of learning the art of being able to talk to somebody and them going. I am that man. This just a phenomenal, you know, ability to communicate that in such a way, and I think too many keyboard ninjas today just say it, or you know, there's this bravado of masculinity, of, or just this superior spirituality of like I've no, the Holy Spirit told me, so I have to say it. That's not actually accurate. In fact, this is what is crazy, because we read about Zopar actually saying this to I love it, actually say this to Job. And this is what he says. And it is so funny to me because it's just like this Again, he says all the right scripture verses and he says you know, job 42, 7, let's us know, for the Lord finished speaking to Job and he says about his friends I am angry with you and your friends for you have not spoken accurately about me. That's a rebuke.
Speaker 1:But later Zopar says to Job shouldn't someone answer this tort of words? Just listen to his spirit. Shouldn't someone, like I've got to answer? And it says is a person proved innocent just by a lot of talking? Should I remain silent while you babble on? Just like I can't handle it and I've got to say it? And then when you mock God, shouldn't someone make you ashamed? And it's like this God said you didn't even, you didn't speak about me accurately and you had this passion.
Speaker 1:There's one scripture it's so crazy a little bit later where it says that one of the friends said I feel the spirit of God on me. So I have to say this. We find out later wasn't the spirit of God what was his own flesh, his own anger, his own resentment? Not even accurately describing God. And so I think that that's just a couple of things that just jumped out to me this week. I'm just reading Job like wow, I don't have to answer everything. Not everything deserves my answer or needs my answer. Does that make sense, rachel? It's just like he had this. Shouldn't someone answer this taunt of words? Nope, Nope. You don't have to answer every false thing, every wrong thing, every hurt. Sometimes we just have to remain silent until the Holy Spirit says to speak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's more power in our private conversations with God about it every time anyways. And are we actually called by God to be disruptors or interruptors? And I believe that God has called us to be interruptors, interruptors of hate, interruptors of fear, with the goodness, power and grace of God. And I guess the question for me. You know, job's friend forgot that the power of God was enough for Job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so they thought that they had to add their humanity into God's ways. And that was the biggest mistake is that they thought that they had to add to the power of God. And I think that right now we can look at government, we can look at how some churches aren't you know? Whatever I hear this all the time and it's really frustrating is that there's these Christians that think that they're better Christians than other Christians and I. The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, and the kind of talk that comes out of people judging other Christians is actually us wounding the body of Christ.
Speaker 2:And I'm I'm so passionate about it because I think about our family and there have been times in our family where one of our kids has failed and done something that's embarrassing to them. It's something that could be keep them walking in shame or they're just off Like they're not living their best, their best selves. And as a family, I never take them in front of our church that we're leading and say, hey, this is Silas, and Silas stole from the corner store. This did not happen, but I'm using it as an analogy and I bring Silas up in front of our church and I go. Silas did not live according to the laws of God and I just want everyone here to know that Silas has sinned and he has fallen short and he needs to be reprimanded and looked at as someone who's not as strong as a Christian. Would that honor Silas and give him space to fall and get back up, or would that discourage him so much that he never wanted to show his face again? And shame attaches to his life, and shame was the thing that was trying to attach to Job's life through the talk of his fellow Christians, the fellow people, and Colossians four, five through six says walk in wisdom towards those who are on the outside, redeeming the time.
Speaker 2:That word right there, redeeming the time, means to take back what's been stolen, and I believe that the church has been, really Christians have been very irresponsible with their words and because of it, the world is mistrusting of God. Yeah, and we did not. We did not speak for God. Well, like you were saying, and it says to Walk in wisdom towards them, to redeem the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt that you may know how, and you ought to answer each Person, and that word grace is the word Charis. I love the word Charis, my middle name, but that word does not mean to rebuke everyone or to remind people of their sin and to attach Shame on to someone else.
Speaker 2:The word Charis actually means something which affords someone else joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness, grace of speech. That's the way of Jesus. That's the heart of God. It is his kindness that leads this world to repentance. It's his kindness that leads me to repentance when I fall. And it's not shame, it's not. Why didn't you do it different? You? It's not a Jesus spanking. You deserve this because you did this. That's not the heart of God, and so we have to. We need to be people that carry Charis. Let's have our words seasoned with sweetness, with delight, where someone feels better about who God is, who they are, the road they're on, when they're finished talking with us. Then, someone who makes them feel like you're never gonna make it, you're not good enough, follow me, because I am good enough, I am making it. It's not the heart of God.
Speaker 1:No, and I mean again, like you said, this conversation is something that we're pretty passionate about can you tell?
Speaker 1:We're very passionate about it and and not passive about it. Understand, this isn't a passive where we somehow allow sin and we condone different things. Not at all. But there is a Humility, like you said, rachel, because God resists the proud but he gives grace to the humble, and so there is I mean there's some. A lot of teaching of Jesus is like, hey, before you take Out the speck in your neighbor's eye, maybe you should remove the plank in yours, and it's so easy to just do that.
Speaker 1:And I just think there's a scripture in Jude where Jude is even saying that the angels, when fighting, even with the devil, or in the way that they use their tone, arguing over the body of Moses, even they understood this authority type thing and the way they addressed it, which just shows us as Christian. It's, it's it. The context of it is we. We're not all that. The context of it is we're Not these incredible super Christians, but there's even this, this aspect of it, and Jesus even says this to the disciples.
Speaker 1:To those disciples were like you'll call down Sulfur, call down, right, you know, call this down. He's like what spirit are you of? And so you can be a follower of Jesus more intimate than any person on the planet. Only 12 other in 11 other individuals were with Jesus as much as these disciples, and Jesus has to rebuke them Because they got the wrong spirit. And I, I know I can get the wrong spirit. I know that I can get the wrong attitude towards certain things, certain people, and the thing that humbles me is I can back it up with the word of God, I Can back it up with my Sunday school scriptures, but what Job showed me is that I can actually not have his God's heart on a certain area, and so that humbles me, that I can try to make things in the way I want them, to my own biases, my own passions. And Job's friends got a Rebuke because they didn't accurately actually describe God's heart.
Speaker 2:I think what helps me too is like having a healthy perspective of who I am, like, you know, making we have a list of all the miracles that God has done for our family and for me personally. I have a running list, but I think on the list that's just as important is the list of what I've done wrong and Remembering grace. Like remembering this is actually the power of God. This is actually an honor to be given a microphone or a pulpit or a friendship or a marriage where I have to steward my voice in those things. Being a mom, you know every area that my voice is released in the name of the Lord. It's a really big responsibility and I don't want to waste my words or have really amazing things to say, but have a judgmental heart that doesn't have the right spirit behind it. And if, if it's not, you know God breath, if it's there's not an anointing of freshness and a and a grace to invite people to grow, instead of trying to hold people down and suppress. Because I want to be elevated, I just it's such a scary place to be, and so I remember when I came from.
Speaker 2:Good, I remember that I almost didn't pass Bible college. I remember that I was involved in drugs and addiction. I remember the time I was a snot to Israel and failed. You know there's all of these things, but I think that that list is just as important and you know, we can make that list disqualify us and make us insecure but really, a list of the places where God has brought us from and and that, like almost like our own Egypt, can remind us of how thankful we are to be in the promised land, to be how Thankful and grateful and how much we really don't deserve what God has given us. If we can carry that spirit, I think it stops us from being this person that has to correct everybody else because it's like no, the only one great is God. This is not about me. This is not about me Portraying judgment to someone else. It's me going. If he can do it for me, he could do it for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. So I mean, I have two lists. That is brilliant, a list of everything We've also done wrong. We'll remind. Well, quickly, it's almost like the story of Jesus, you know, with writing in the on the ground, you know, and let's go writing the sins of probably mostly all just believe, writing the sins of everyone. While he was sitting there and the the oldest were like I, yeah, yeah, okay, I'm leaving now because I recognize, you know what I did, the way and kind of innocence, wise, remembering where we were from. I remember one time I was having an attitude towards somebody and you like, we're, like Israel. Do you remember what you were doing?
Speaker 2:And I was like I mean it's humbling for all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm like, oh my gosh, all of a sudden I had grace. I want to not change it, but as we're kind of getting close to wrap it up, okay, what do we do when we do see somebody airing? We have relationship with them and and maybe that's one of the things we'll go back and forth with is do you have relationship with them? Is it's just so? What can you do, cuz, sometimes do you do nothing. I mean what? What are the things that you can do? Because you could have this Righteous indignation, which is nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:The Bible says to be angry, so not so Well, I reach. What are some things for you? And so I think maybe I'll just start it with the do you have relationship with the person? Cuz, that's a game changer. And if you don't, and it's just some random person on Instagram or whatever, I just don't think it's effective. Personally, I just don't think random. You not having relationship, there's no deposits so that you can make withdrawal just doesn't work, and so just maybe for me is like I, I don't have the equity, relational equity to try to correct that I have no relationship, and I'm praying God will use somebody that does. That's one of the ways I process it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think for me the word of God doesn't return void.
Speaker 2:And if I Speak the word of God, you know, especially like for me if it's from a pulpit or it's from social media and it's to like a mass group, then I don't have the relational equity to always be rebuking every single person and in a really like aggressive way and really like the anointing of God does that. The times that I've been the most corrected and and Like convicted in a service no one's talking about my personal stuff, they're just preaching the word of God under under the power of the anointing of God, and it says that it's the anointing that breaks that yoke. And if we really want to see change, it's not a person we're trying to change, it's a spirit anyway. So then why are we fighting flesh things? Why? Why don't we fight in the spirit and release the word of God that carries the anointing to have that breaking and then Then the Holy Spirit can do that, and I feel like when we feel like it's on us to correct everyone, we don't think that the power of God is enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I, just, I just have the belief Because it's my personal testimony of how I was set free is that the word of God and the power of God and the moving of the Holy Spirit is enough.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. The thing for me that always helps me too is just God is not mocked. Whatsoever a person sows, they reap. And I've been around now ministry long enough. I don't have to correct it, because whatsoever a person sows, they reap, and so it's, it's. I don't, I don't have to be the garter of that.
Speaker 1:I just I just I can cringe, I can be like, eh, but I know I have reaped things that I have sowed and I just know God's not mocked and so if it feels like they're getting away with it, yeah, feels like they're winning, you don't need to. You just I think that's the time where you humble yourself even more and you're even more aware of your failures and you just kind of go, yeah, god deals with those things, and we pray mercy. We pray not what we deserve, but God's mercy. That's what Daniel prayed Not what we deserve, lord, but your mercy, but we also just there's a For me. There's just a piece. I don't have to fix it.
Speaker 1:God is not mocked and I've never seen, never. 26 years of ministry, 50, 40 something years in the church, never seen anybody get away with it. Yet Never, not once. What's over a man, so he reaps. So I've seen consequences for actions that I've never had to try to correct. Might not show up right away, may not be that, but I mean time after time again. I just trust God and he is so much better at it than we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just want to say you know, as pastors, we do bring correction out of relationship, and so you know we're talking this. This whole podcast was about kind of like, how do you not rebuke Job's friends, that kind of spirit. But there's also moments where you know, we pastor people and we say, hey, we see this airing your life. We've been praying about it and we really feel like we want to just put a red flag up, maybe bring some protection to you. This is what the word of God says, this is what we're seeing, and. But those kind of conversations happen out of our relationship equity and it also happens out of more of a kitchen table. It's the come around the table. We're family and so we're going to have these hard conversations. We don't believe that the hard conversations should ever be from a social media place or from a passive, aggressive place. We've got to be able to be truth, truth carriers, but in the right setting, right.
Speaker 1:Well, and I even would go one step further it shouldn't be done from the pulpit is my personal opinion. The pulpit is such a holy place and it's not the time for passive aggressive. You know the church, they're not doing this, so I'm going to preach on that for a while. I probably would have done that when I was younger. I think I even made some points like, like threw in a couple of points in my sermon that had to do with that rebellious person back there, and I have since then repented and just been like no, this is a holy moment and this is teaching. Yeah, of course the word of God does rebuke, but I like what you said let the word of God rebuke.
Speaker 1:I have been more rebuked by the word of God than a pastor actually saying something, and that's how powerful the word is, because he knows the secret parts of our heart and it really does cut. It, cuts asunder is the King James version of it, and so I love it sharper than a two-edged sword. So I hope this helps. We don't want to be the negative, nancy, we don't want to be like this, but it is true, I love what you said in the beginning, rachel. Are we discourage or are we encouragers and our hope, even in this podcast, is to encourage us in those areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you don't feel like you're naturally an encourager, ask the Holy Spirit to help you be encouraging, and ask the Holy Spirit to convict you when you're discouraging, even in relationships like your spouse and your kids. Practice encouragement and see what the Holy Spirit can use your life to do.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, that's so good. I hope you like the Campbell Soup podcast. We like you. Yes, we do. That would be an encouraging thing, huh. So I encourage you to share this with a friend and don't just share it with your negative friend. Share it.
Speaker 2:This is a good one for you.
Speaker 1:With friends or whatever. Thank you.
