Israel & Rachel Campbell "SOUP" Podcast
Join us for an exciting Season 2 of our podcast, which garnered over 7000 downloads last year! Your hosts, Rachel and Israel Campbell, are back to take you on an incredible journey. In this podcast, we invite you into the ongoing dialogues about life, love, parenting, relationships, spirituality, and whatever else sparks our interest!
Our motivation for creating this podcast remains unchanged: we believe that discipleship should encompass more than just a classroom experience; it should be a way of life. Drawing inspiration from Jesus' interactions with his disciples, we see that it was far from a traditional classroom setup. Instead, it was a continuous exchange of teachings and discussions encompassing all facets of life.
Imagine savoring a delicious bowl of soup – that's what our podcast is like. We're here to engage in honest and unfiltered conversations, covering a wide spectrum of topics. And now, we invite you to share this podcast with your friends, family members, or coworkers, just as you'd share a great meal. Just like Jesus and his disciples, we're here to explore the richness of life together!
So, come join us for another season of candid conversations as we dive into a little bit of everything – from the profound to the lighthearted!
Israel & Rachel Campbell "SOUP" Podcast
Israel & Rachel Campbell "SOUP" Podcast Season 2 Episode 21 ''Projecting or Reflecting"
Have you ever caught a glimpse of yourself in a mirror and wondered if the reflection staring back is truly who you are, or just a facade we've grown accustomed to? Rachel and Israel wrestled with this very question as we dissected the theme of 'Projecting vs Reflecting' in our spiritual and daily lives. Inspired by a church message spotlighting the children of Israel's command to shed their jewelry, we're led to introspection. Are we, like Peter before his transformation, wearing masks that conceal the God-given power within us? Stripping away the layers, we share candid experiences and the subtle allure of projecting false perfection, especially within faith circles.
The pressure to present an impeccable image can be overwhelming, and it often sneaks into the most pious of places—our faith communities. We peel back the curtain on this struggle for authenticity, offering personal tales and insights that reveal the dangers of living behind a pretense. We take a hard look at the cultural obsession with rented luxury and the social media highlight reels that can distort our genuine faith experiences. In a call to embrace our flawed humanity, our dialogue serves as a gentle reminder to reflect the true essence of Christ's love in our actions, rather than an airbrushed version of righteousness.
As we navigate the delicate dance of engaging in worldly affairs without compromising our divine mission, we contemplate the impact of our words and deeds. Can we participate in political discourse without letting fear and personal bias eclipse the light we're meant to shine? We examine how prayer, stillness, and peace can become transformative tools in our quest to reflect Jesus more clearly. The challenge we leave you with is a profound one: to consider the distinction between reflecting divine truth and projecting our own insecurities. Join us on this thought-provoking journey, and as always, your responses and inquiries are not just anticipated but essential to our collective exploration.
Ah yes, we're back, we're back, we're back. And. I absolutely love this subject that we're going to talk about today. I obviously I always like talking with you, Rachel, so it's kind of hard to say which one is the best.
Speaker 2:I like your outfit. You look like you're going camping.
Speaker 1:Well, hey, this is a good floor for our men's camp coming up in May. Didn't even think about that. Come on, men at flourishing, or if you're around the world and you want to come to LA and go to our men's retreat, you can come to LA to go to the wilderness. Yes, but if you live in Billings Montana, come to LA so you can go see our one tree.
Speaker 2:See how easy the outdoors could be.
Speaker 1:Yes, Clamping made easy. So let's talk about this a little bit. Our topic today, and I'm even typing it right now. How good is that? Are we projecting or are we reflecting? I like this, so talk to me about it for a little bit, well you start because you are.
Speaker 2:This message was on Sunday, if you are at flourishing church, and it was so good that I just told Israel that I really feel like we should talk about it a little more in depth. And you know, campbell soup is always for discipleship, and so we're talking about the word of God a little deeper than we do on Sundays, and so your message was so good on Sunday. I keep telling him that because it really was a powerful message and it's kind of. Israel loves to do series and have you know what I'm, what I preached last week, what I'm preaching this week, and he has all of these like a scheduled thing, which is great, especially since a lot of people preach at our church. But this one was a one-off and I'm so, so glad that you did it and it was something that God laid on your heart. But I don't want to preach your message because this was something that God really spoke to you. So I think it'd be great if you kind of give a quick summary.
Speaker 1:Okay, quick summary. And I you know you're so right, I love series, I love anything. And then I love little. I love little sentences in the Bible and really asking the Holy Spirit to just kind of reveal. And so this one story in the Old Testament that I think I've read I don't know how many times, but just never put it together and it's just the story of the children of Israel on their way to the Promised Land, and God pretty much says I'm not going with you, I am not going to go with you because of some things. And it ends up where he pretty much tells them to stop wearing jewelry and fine clothes. And it's such a. It was just kind of a shocker because I put myself into that story and went why are the people living in tents and in the middle of the desert waking up every morning putting on jewelry and putting on these fine clothes? And I just began to really kind of sense and see that we do the same thing, is that we project something that we aren't. So they were projecting, in a sense, success when actually they weren't really quite successful right now, that whole phrase fake it till you make it. They were doing that, but God actually said I won't go with you if you keep on projecting things that you aren't. And so then that kind of goes with our title.
Speaker 1:Today is then reflecting, because then you know, we talked a little bit about the Christology or the, you know, seeing Jesus in a text, and we talked a little bit about how Peter did the same thing. He was always projecting. Oh, you know, no, jesus, I'm the greatest disciple, I'll never, I'll never abandon you. And then Jesus is like you're just projecting. You know, before the rooster crows, you're going to deny me three times. You know, projecting just stupidity, because we don't, we don't like quietness.
Speaker 1:And so he projects one time on the sermon on the Mount of Transfiguration, he's like, well, let's build a temple or a tabernacle for this one and this one, god's like, this is my beloved. So he's always projecting something and then kind of getting rebuked for it. But then we see this new Holy Spirit change, transformation. You know he goes and Jesus says this is who you're going to be. He changes his name from Simon to Peter. You know all this transformation that Jesus does. And then we see that they line up just to get his shadow. And so now he's not projecting, now he's reflecting God's glory and he's being healed, and so I think that that's what we wanted to talk about. In fact, I had somebody message me that said hey, I know that's not a series, but you need to talk more about it. So I'm like I will be able to go listen to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yes, now you can say, listen to the podcast and there's so much in it. But let's just first start with the whole thought of the Israelites and God's like I'm not going with you, not playing these games, because they, he said, take off. The things that you're identifying with, that aren't me, you know. And so they're in the, they're in the desert, they're fighting to survive, they're just looking for water, they're, they're running from slavery, but their jewelry is just so important to them and it's so true that we do that. What is our jewelry? Maybe it's not, maybe it is jewelry, maybe you are trying to be bling bling and really you're struggling and you're just putting this facade out there. And there is.
Speaker 2:I think it's a very American thing that we do, where we pretend to be further along, smarter, more less afraid, whatever it might be, whatever negative thing it might be. We, we project a lot and we're almost taught to project. You act tough, like you know, my daddy used to tell my brothers like no one will mess with you if you don't act afraid, if you throw the first punch, everybody will stop. And you know it's all projection and in some ways it's really self protection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it sounds good.
Speaker 1:It sounds good and it sounds even like some of the things that you can say is you know, just be you know, and all of these kind of words. It can sound really like, yeah, fake it till you make it. It really sounds like it can help, but the reality is I love it. God says no, I'm not going to go with you if you keep on doing that and the authenticity of you know, no, just stop trying to pretend to be something that you're not. It's so important and you know the best. We live in LA and so you know. Some people think, oh, they always ask us have you, have you run into any actors or actresses? And I'm like, yeah, every Sunday we have tons that go to our church.
Speaker 1:And they're like, really, you have a bunch of actors and actresses that go to church. Oh, every like, almost every single one of them is because, as Christians, we do that. We are the greatest actors and actresses. You know, coming into church had just gotten to fight with your spouse through your shoe at your kid, and then come in and like, praise the Lord, you know, and we just do that. We pretend maybe, like you said, self-preservation. We're hard to not let anybody in again, all these things that are projected and then we never get healed so that we can reflect his glory, because we're constantly projecting, and that's a and that's a lot of energy, rachel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, trying to trying to create the perfect facade. You know, like Israel and I tell on ourselves all the time at church because we really don't want to be the kind of church that thinks that, like you know, that thinks that we somehow are closer to God. And there's, we are human beings that are working out our faith with fear and trembling. We are trying to please God, but there are so many things in our life that we still don't don't have all together and we're not pretending to. And in Bible college I just remember that our teachers and all the pastors, they would teach us that people need to feel like you are another level than they are, and that was always taught to us. And Israel and I were both raised in pastors' homes and I think that we both have very much rejected that, because it first of all puts really unwanted pressure on our kids for people to think that pastors, kids and pastors are set apart in this whole new realm. Now, of course, the Bible says that we'll be judge double, and so we really have to get our act together and we work hard at being Christlike. But at the same time, we're still human and you know that projection thing it separates people more from God than brings them to Him, and so it's so important for us to not play those games and it's so easy to play them. I look back at our life and how many times we were we felt the pressure in church to project and Israel told the story on Sunday.
Speaker 2:That was hilarious and it was when we were going to this big church and Israel was speaking and we like it was back in the day when name brands were just so very important, and especially in the church world, and he got me he had gone to New York and got me a fake Louis Vuitton bag that had very good stitching for a fake bag. I mean, if it was going to be fake, it was like a high end fake Louis Vuitton bag and instead of paying 15, he paid 40. That's the kind of bag it was and I had it. It had a handle and I was holding it at this church and the pastor knew exactly the style. It was like that's the new model of Louis Vuitton and he's talking about my bag to me and I'm just standing there like yeah, and all of a sudden, right when he told us that he liked my bag, the handle broke and the whole thing just fell to the ground and all my junk went on the ground in the green room, and it was almost the moment of like God saying, take your jewelry off or I'm not going with you, don't play these games.
Speaker 2:And so we do that so much and that's what we want to talk about in this podcast is, you know, how can we be people who are authentic and real and we're not projecting, but we're also so full of faith and so full of Jesus that we reflect? And so there's this fine balance, because we're not also called to wander around complaining about our life all the time and there is this element of having faith and dressing the way that you really want, like dressing for the job that you want. Those things actually aren't bad, unless it's actually a part of your identity and you're pretending you're already there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I go back to really the practicality and hopefully this will hit you in a you know, not some abstract thought, but like Instagram, instagram is a real big fake it till you make it. And so in LA it's crazy, we had, I remember, one person who was wanting, was wanting, to be an influencer and so rented a kitchen to teach these things on how to cook for your family wasn't even their house, so it was such a sham of like influence, like trying to influence, it wasn't even and just the pressure. And so you know, and I get it, but they have it here One of the biggest money makers in LA is there's a guy who makes more money renting out his jet for influencers to come on and film than he does actually renting it out to actually fly. He can charge more per hour and never have to pay the fuel cost to just come in and then you can film like it's your jet.
Speaker 2:Like you're getting on the jet, you're having your campaign. That's gross.
Speaker 1:They'll take the photos.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, that's all yeah.
Speaker 1:But again, and God says I won't even go there with you, and so, but it's not just that grotesque, it's and I said it on Sunday it's the mom who is, you know, showing how good of a mom she is by how she took off the crust and now the peanut butter and jelly sandwich looks like a, you know, a dinosaur, and you know, and moms, I'm not. I'm not trying to hate on you.
Speaker 2:There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:No, I'm just saying, moms, you'll show that, but you won't show the upstairs bedroom of the third child, who's, you know, always the demon child. You know, and you know what I'm saying, and that pressure of trying to be the perfect mom or the pressure to have the perfect relationship, and so you know, I think we've always taken photos. Just the other night we took this beautiful photo on the sunset and we kissed at the end, but we've never posted that fight when we're at the house together and we're both mad. And then you know how. You have to walk through the hallway and they're both there, but you're both mad and you're not talking. So you're like, excuse me, we never filmed that, and so it's just like just that pressure of always trying to be something that we're not is exhausting.
Speaker 2:And the problem with it is that when you start faking it, there's no room to become real.
Speaker 1:You don't even know your real self. Eventually, is that true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it also, you know, the Bible talks about how God desires truth in the inward parts, and it's really hard to be authentic with God when we can't be authentic with ourselves. And he knows, he knows what we're struggling with. He knows, you know the tempers we have, he knows it all. And it's almost like we try to Instagram God and like God, these be my life.
Speaker 2:And he's like take the filters off and let's deal with some things so that you can have true power and you can have a good life, and I think it is like this. It's almost a trap that causes us not to be free.
Speaker 1:Okay, I 100%. Let me throw the ball. Pickleball you a whole.
Speaker 2:You always talk about this pickleball?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I just feel like it's a rally, like I'm hitting the ball to you to then hit back.
Speaker 1:Okay sounds good, but I okay. So I really like what you said before too is like okay, so we know in our weakness he's made strong, and so we don't want to fake it to you make it. We don't want to do this. But then the other one is and we said it on Sunday is Debbie Downer. You know we should add that to the yeah.
Speaker 1:And then she makes the face, and so you don't want to be so authentic that like we have a pastor friend we love, but like every time he's in front of the congregation it's a little too much. Like you're like, oh my goodness, like, don't make the whole church cry every week because of how tough your life is. That's not going to build faith. And so how do you what? How do you know the balance right, is it? You know what is that balance? And I guess maybe going to that Old Testament story is like God wasn't against clothes, but it was like never against jewelry. It wasn't the jewelry, it wasn't the fancy clothes, but was it the attitude behind it? Like, so how do we navigate that?
Speaker 2:I don't know the exact answer to that Because I'm not the Bible answer man for those of you who are from the 90s, but I, I there's so much that you could take out of that. You know he, he doesn't want you walking into your promise, back in with the same things you were in slavery to, and you know that separation and all of those things. There's so much in that. But I think the main thing is he doesn't want us to pretend, he doesn't want us to project something that we're not, when we're really called to reflect who he is. Right, it's the taking away of ourselves and it's the addition of who he is. And if we can learn to do that, we, the world, will love Jesus.
Speaker 2:And right now, and Christians, and right now, I think the litmus test is we're not doing well in this because people are not loving Christians. And so why? What's the thing we're doing? What are we projecting that's not reflecting? Because Jesus is always attractive. Jesus was attractive to sinners and to the, to the ones who believed, and so what is it that we might not be reflecting? Well, I think that's the big question, right.
Speaker 1:Oh, so good, and I think, as I said it and you're answering, I'm like, yes, there it is. It's the title Are we projecting or reflecting? Projecting will always be about us. So, even if you're trying to be authentic, you could be too authentic, because you're projecting Debbie Downer and it's still making it about you. Reflecting has nothing to do with us, has everything to do with God, and that's a really good thing to consistently be asking as a pastor does this post project?
Speaker 1:That's really good or does this reflect as a mom? Does this project or does this reflect In a conversation? Was I projecting or reflecting? And I can easily say I have failed at this many times where I've been more about, well yeah, trying to name drop or trying to what I've where I've been, or something like that. I project what we know I've been projecting instead of really reflecting the grace of God.
Speaker 2:So how do we do that? Okay, in a practical way, how do we do that, like, let's say, that somebody wants to talk about politics? Okay, we're coming into in America, we're coming into the voting season, which we're so excited about my favorite.
Speaker 1:nothing brings together the church.
Speaker 2:Come on, jesus be with all of us. So, okay, let's talk about that. So Jesus, the church and politics, jesus, the church and Trump. I wonder how many times we project out of our fears and out of what we want to happen, instead of reflecting Jesus. And how do we do that? What's some practical ways? You know, what are some practical things? That if somebody's listening today and they're going into, they're really, they're really passionate about politics. So how do they go about reflecting Jesus and not projecting in that?
Speaker 1:What would?
Speaker 1:projecting look like yeah, I mean, you're so right Is number one. It's so oftentimes when we're really dogmatic and we're really can be borderline too passionate about a thing, then oftentimes it is because of fear. We're fearful of, maybe, how the nation is happening and what's going on and you keep on listening to fear talk shows and fear television. You're going to project even more of that because that fear is building up. And so I think that reflecting also has to do with what we do in life.
Speaker 1:So projecting is a lot of talk, projecting is a lot of showing something that we really not, and reflecting is really oftentimes doing the things. And so you know, to me I don't know if this helps you or not, but projecting could be just the blah, blah, blah, and the reflecting could be actually going to do the things that Jesus said to do, and so I'm going to actually help some people and not just blast. I'm going to actually serve somebody and not just blast. Does that make sense? Where I'm reflecting, why I'm doing this is because how good God has been to me and so I'm going to be generous. And it could be just a stranger in the store. It could just be something. I'm going to reflect God's glory instead of just projecting what I'm afraid of. I don't know if that helps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just want to say there's nothing wrong with being patriotic and loving America, there's nothing wrong with believing in certain things that you want politically to happen. Those things are really actually a good thing and it's our responsibility as American citizens and as Christians to know who's running and know who is running for godly principles and all of those things. And so there's nothing wrong with that and, I think, having godly conversations. But when it gets into the name calling and it gets into the shaming and when it gets into dividing God's people, those things are not reflecting Jesus. Those things are projecting, you know.
Speaker 2:And so we have to look at that and go how do I reflect Jesus, even in something as divisive as politics? What does the word of God say? What does Jesus? What's his example? When he walked this earth as a man, what was he doing? How was he bringing people together? But how was he also dividing the soul from the spirit? So all of those things are so important. But I do think that a lot of the political division comes fear based, and it's a. It's a. We're afraid that America's going to change, we're afraid that people are going to sin, and the truth is America's going to change and people are going to sin, and Jesus Christ is still the king of kings, and so yeah it goes back to your message and even the podcast that we did.
Speaker 1:What's our job, what's God's job, you know? And to reflect but I agree with you is man, we love our nation. We love, you know, there's not another nation on USA's worst day and we've done some bad things. We've still given more to missions. We've done more things for other nations to help them when it comes to war and protection. I mean, we love our nation. We want to, you know, fight for that and do as well.
Speaker 1:But also, looking at Jesus's lives is he was really good at, you know, being in a Pharisee's home or then being in Matthew the tax collector's home. He was really good with people he had on his own team. It's pretty amazing. He had a zealot, Simon the zealot. Then you know, he's got a tax collector and it's like being able to have conversations and do life with people that are different from you is really one of the ways of reflecting Jesus, because Jesus was this, you know, a friend of sinners. Yet then Nicodemus, a famous Pharisee, was still coming to Jesus at night, needing that, and so just being able to have those relationships are really good.
Speaker 1:I think that that helps reflect. And then I also think helping reflect is sometimes Jesus didn't say anything and it really bugged people that he didn't say anything. I think sometimes part of reflecting the love of Christ is not really actually saying your opinion all the time and always what you think about things. Sometimes it's just better to reflect a love. Maybe that sounds like a cop out to you, but I do think that somehow the way we respond is really important. I think that that's what you were saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one thing, jesus, where he wasn't silent was that even in those silent times where he didn't say anything, he was saying a lot because he was always praying.
Speaker 2:You see that over and over Jesus would go away to pray and then he would come back and he would have the confidence in his God, in his Father. He'd have confidence in knowing like that. This is a conversation that I'm not going to win in an argument, and there's more happening in the spiritual than there is in the natural in some moments, and we have to be that way. We should be saying a lot, but sometimes I think projecting is when we're just shouting it on Instagram or we're shouting it at people, instead of crying out to God and then being able to carry peace and walk out things without words. It happens because we are saying a lot and Jesus said a lot in the right moment.
Speaker 2:Reflecting is when you have the confidence in your prayers. You have the confidence in who God's nature is and that he rules and reigns. The government shall be upon his shoulders, and I think sometimes we get that wrong and I just wonder you know there's so many hateful Christians and I wonder how much they're praying, because sometimes I have this anger inside of me, but when I take it to God, he always comes it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and that, when it comes to reflecting, it's so true, I think, of Old Testament, which is a new tip. You know, we look at it as like what's the New Testament version of it and we see it in in Acts. But an Old Testament was Moses would be with God and his glory Would get on to Moses, and then it would reflect His face, would radiate his glory. And so how do we reflect? It is spending time with God.
Speaker 1:And there's an old story of I think it's DL Moody, and he comes into this war. He was invited by the owner or the Manager or whatever, into this factory and he was a person we know. Dl Moody was such a prayer warrior, was such a holy spirit meet fill me that he came into this factory and didn't preach, didn't you know list what? The Christian, what, what was wrong with these Pagans? He just came in and the actual weight of God's glory was on him, the Reflection of the Holy Spirit, the factor, the workers started weeping and crying uncontrollably because he just got into the room and people started weeping and then they had, like this revival service.
Speaker 1:That was Unplanned and it wasn't, you know, with the Bible bashing them. It was just because he had been in the presence of God, and I think that that's a big thing. How do we know if we're projecting or reflecting? Well, it's pretty hard to reflect Something that you're not, I think, as a pastor and a minister. Of course it's never Orcs oriented, but I think you know it's definitely biased grace. But I do know the difference between having been in prayer and and and, and you know repentance and Sacrifice and God not me, but you be shown through this versus just getting up trying to do it on my own strength and Projecting like I really know this text or I really know the Bible. That never goes well. Versus God move I mean, it's been my prayer lately, you've heard is God, holy Spirit, move me aside and you speak to your people. It's always way better.
Speaker 2:I think just realizing that we're really not as good as God Like that's the bottom line, if we can make it any simpler is that we can't do what God can do and our words, my. I will mess up my words every time and I, I fear the day that the ashiu makes fun of me because I get facts wrong and I, you know, like I just get scared of that, like it can actually make you in like Paralyzed to be who God's called you to be, if you're. You know you know your frailty, but the truth is no one can ever correct you for carrying the love of Jesus and Reflecting who he is. That that is something that will never be mocked. And I just feel like sometimes we put too much trust in our own Words. When we can, really we can even project God, and God does not need our Projecting and he really does just want our his, like us, to reflect him, to be able to radiate Jesus.
Speaker 2:When people see us and know us, when they really know us, when they have a conversation that's hard with us, do they feel the love of God or do they feel Condemnation and that they're a wretched, and that's never the heart of Jesus, that the heart of Jesus is hope. The heart of Jesus Is even when he rebukes us. It feels so much like love and it feels like I can be better Because of not because of who I am, but because of Jesus and who he is. And the simple gospel is that it's not our job to project something. Yeah, it's our job to reflect the Savior, it's our job to reflect the presence and power of God. And and when we get that part right, when we spend time with Jesus and we just do that, it changes the heart of Changes, the heart of man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's such an easy thing. I know last week we might have said, hey, write a list or something. I think it's an easy prayer to whatever situation we find ourselves in. Take in a breath and just saying Holy Spirit, help me not project, but help me reflect Christ. And that's the work of the Holy Spirit. He can do that, that we are Reflecting, we're here a light, we're salt. You know all those six situations, but we're reflecting the glory of God. And so, just if you find yourself not being able to find the balance of that or you know, being able to see what the difference of that is is really ask the job of the Holy Spirit to just do that in your life.
Speaker 1:Holy Spirit, I don't want to and it's really cool about even that Old Testament story. It's God's like. I'm not gonna go with you unless you do this, and God always wants to go with us on that journey. It's just a matter of are we gonna project or reflect? So hope that that is awesome. Give us some Feedback. We love to hear questions, emails, all of that. But until next week, reflect, don't project.
