S03E05 Creating Design Synergies with Certosa Initiative

Founders of Certosa Initiative Margriet Vollenberg and Remi Versteeg will reveal why they are going to be the talk of Milan Design Week in this exclusive podcast interview. How is color influencing this years' Milan Design Week and how did it influence the installations at Certosa? What are the innovations we can expect in materials, design while tapping into our multiple senses? How is combining color ever more so important and what role does the absence of color play in todays' design?

Beyond Space, architects with a distinct focus on delicate interiors and grand-scale transformations, bundle forces with Organisation in Design, makers of Ventura Projects and instrumental in breathing new life into rediscovered districts of Milan. Brought together by a deeply shared passion for design, their complementary track records make them a natural match to move the crowds into the up-and-coming Certosa District. In the face of turbulent times and on such short notice, the team sees itself floated by the sheer energy of the historical moment of resuscitation and is poised to make the Certosa Initiative the Talk of the town during the 2022 Milan Design Week. 

Remi Versteeg is equal parts architect and entrepreneur. He founded his first company back in 2002 (many were to follow) and obtained his degree in architecture from Delft University. In 2016, he co-founded office for architecture Space Encounters. In 2021, he co-founded Beyond Space together with Stijn de Weerd. Remi is driven to innovate and always seeks to combine diverse perspectives to forge new connections and lead him down roads less traveled. 

Margriet Vollenberg is an entrepreneur and a professional in the global field of design and has over twenty years’ experience in the design industry. Margriet, founder of Organisation in Design and founder & art director of Ventura Projects, has got a grand sense of adventure on the one hand and the prudence to do business wisely on the other. She is a graduate designer who studied at the Design Academy in Eindhoven under Lidewij Edelkoort. Her company Organisation in Design (started 2005) provides clients with services design strategies, consultancy, and art direction. For 11 years she was driving force behind the successful design events Ventura Projects in Milan, Dubai, New York, and many other places all around the world.

Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Color Authority podcast. This is an exclusive podcast about Milan Design week happening this week, and in particular about Certosa Initiative Beyond Space. Architects with a distinct focus on delegate interiors and grand skill transformations bundled forces with Organization and Design, the makers of Ventura projects who were instrumental in breeding new life into rediscovered districts of Milan, brought together by indeed a deeply shared passion for design. Their complimentary track records make them a natural match to move the crowds into the up and coming Certosa District. Now, in the face of turbulent times and on such a short notice, the team sees itself floated by the sheer energy of the historical momentum of resuscitation and is poised to make Schedules initiative the talk of the town. During 2022, Milan Design Week, I'm going to be talking to two of the founders. One of the first is Remi Versteeg, who is indeed equal parts architect and entrepreneur and he found it Indeed together with Stein De Weert Beyond Space. Then the other guest is the other founder, who is Mahit Falmber. He is an entrepreneur and a professional in the field of design and has over 20 years experience in the design industry. And indeed, she is the founder of Organization in Design. So let's hear why they are going to be the talk of mine. Design Week 2022. Good afternoon, Amy. Good afternoon, Marshid. How are you today? And are you excited for this podcast and Neil and Design Week? Oh, absolutely we are.

Margriet Vollenberg: I mean, my God, it's incredible to be here after two years of absence, of course, but you really feel the energy of the city. And we are in June now, so it's incredibly hot, I can say. Still sweating, still sweating, still sweating. But everything is well, nearly finished. It's never 100%, but we are there, so we are excited about it. I'm excited about it, actually.

Judith van Vliet: You're running to run? Yeah, I think last year September was great, but I think this is the real big one, right? This is like, everybody's back, the city is full, it's buzzing with people from all around the world and it is extremely hot. So I'm not going to keep you too long. I just want to do this interview with you guys because you have a new initiative which I think is super interesting. Before, however, we're going to dive into your new initiative. I just wanted to do this intro question that I do in all of my podcasts, which is indeed, what is color to you? So maybe we can start with the both of you or you can decide who wants to answer first, but what is color to you guys, even personally or professionally?

Remi Versteeg: For me, on a professional level, especially for me, car is a tool. It's a tool to get focused, to get clear what's important, what's not, what you want, to highlight and to create, telegraphies and make people happy, to make people happy.

Judith van Vliet: I like that. That's very true. Market, what is it for you? What is color to you?

Margriet Vollenberg: I think for me, especially on a personal level, color is very important. I'm not such a black and white person. I think I'm very colorful also in my clothing and the choices that I make professionally.

Judith van Vliet: I see.

Margriet Vollenberg: Well, working 22 years now in the field of design, for me, it is really part of the tendency. So what is happening is part of the trend, what is happening at that time. So we really see, for me, colors mark a period of time, almost.

Judith van Vliet: So now I've seen quite the exciting line up for your exhibition, and the first images are so promising. And that's also why we're doing this podcast. And we're going to go live as soon as I've edited, because I'm sure everybody wants to hear about it. Can you shortly explain the audience about your new project called Chateaus Initiative and how you think you're going to be detox at Midland Design Week 2022?

Margriet Vollenberg: Well, yeah, detox. How do you become the talk? I think you become the talk when you do something that nobody expected. And that's exactly what we did and not expecting, even. We surprised ourselves because it's only what was it? How many weeks ago?

Remi Versteeg: Two months ago.

Margriet Vollenberg: Two months ago that we started this. That's crazy.

Remi Versteeg: Yes. So interesting, because it was because just ended and there was still a small opportunity to do it. And we noticed everybody wants to meet again. They want to speak each other. They want to show their works. With two years already.

Margriet Vollenberg: Yeah. It was late February, beginning of March, that Rami and I were here in Lam. It was a little bit of a cold day. It was dark because it was 08:00 in the evening, and we were here in the district. And we said to each other, we have to do it. Yeah, I think we have to do it. You just did.

Judith van Vliet: You're just like, okay, two months ago. We need to do something that's new, that's exciting, and we're going to get people back together again.

Remi Versteeg: Exactly. I want to give young people, established people, they want to give an opportunity to show them. And we understood that a lot of people had the same earth, and it was so short. David. Everybody wants to go, but there was not in April. So we just took the big step and we said, okay, let's make this space where we can do it all together. That's why it's also called Chadoza initiative. It's an initiative which everybody joins and everybody gives his speeds together, and we just bring it all together. We are creating the cross office we would like to see and the different kind of directions people are thinking of.

Margriet Vollenberg: Yeah. And also very little. I stay very well connected with my audiences, my designers, with which I work since many years, and also for them, it was so important to do something again. And so they requested me, Will there be something again? And so I was very happy that around March it would say, yeah, we have this initiative. So come on.

Judith van Vliet: What I wanted to also ask you guys, why are you going to be so different? So what can people really expect that's different from other installations, from other designers, from other initiatives? Why do people really have to come to you guys?

Margriet Vollenberg: It's all about the mixture, the mixture that we give and the energy that gets to have this mixture, the interdisciplinary crossovers that we bring here. And of course, also saying that now when I'm saying it's not new, it's not completely new, and it's not that it's not seen, but I think the way we put it here is so vibrant and so full of energy that that is really what Chapel's Initiative stands for.

Remi Versteeg: We want to be kind of blank, where everybody could put their own ideas and they could bring their own we want to do everything. And I think the salon in Milan, I think the only fair which kind of has the opportunity for fashion, for design, for architecture, for expressions, on what kind you like. And that's exactly the field which we also saw, which was coming more and more. We want to bring it all together, where you can be excited at every corner and there are everywhere, there will be surprises.

Judith van Vliet: There are some of the installations that you guys have, I think on Instagram they look very appealing. Can you talk a little bit about some of the projects that you are going to be presenting, some of the designers just shortly? Who you think is going to make people want to come to your initiative?

Margriet Vollenberg: I think, first of all, what is great is that we have over 150 designers presenting here in about 70 exhibitions. So that is already an incredible number, and also such a short period of time. And the other thing what really amazed me was that we have exhibitors from Korea, we have exhibitors from Australia, we have exhibitors from Japan, from Brazil. So it is incredible that the world was really ready again. So it's not only Europe, of course, also the Netherlands. We underage, of course, as an indicator, they are very prominent. But it was the world that was waiting for this. So what we see, what we really attracted was what I said before the end of the narrative, but also, what is it? What did you contemplate about in the past year and what would you like to let it out now? What would you like to show to the public and to the international design scene, of course. And the reaction that we got on that was really what gave us energy again, to create a further so I.

Remi Versteeg: Think one of the great installations we have is Long.com. It's an amazing installation with light, and also because we want to go further and more in the evening, where we can have music and food and people even go into the nightlife also with temperature, but it also becomes dark. So we have some super nice Light installations. Also, of course, we created one ourselves. And I think it's also special of our collaboration, where there's so much knowledge and experience in the organization. And of course, from beyond space. We made three big installations before and also a lot of Light installations. For example, in 2019 we made a big tunnel with Light together with two of the lights in China. And this year we wanted to create or make the venue itself almost as an artist. So what we did here is we have this huge cathedral. We call it. It's a space of 12 meters high, 35 wide and 7 meters long. It's amazing space. But as architects, when you see the space and when you walk in, you're also a bit small. And if you would only put exhibitors there and everybody needs attention, but they all start competing each other and there will be a lot of senses they're going to try to get. And in the end, it feels bit like it could feel like a mess. And it's such a shame that you wanted to give everybody the same, like highlights and spots where they can stand. So what we did was an intervention in the space of twelve huge cubes of cloth of curtains, there are nine x nine x 9 meters. It's easy to say it's really big in this way. We created with this installation, we call.

Unknown Speaker: It.

Remi Versteeg: We really made a square. All the exhibitors are taking place inside. So you got into the cathedral, you see this big space with all the blocks, and then you go through the first opening inside of these curtains, and then you are inside that exhibition, that room. And the rooms, like how the architect Paladio designed the palaces, you would move from the one room to the other. And we use this piece, which transition from the one room to the other room as a small reset where you have new focus. And you enter the new room and there you go, surprised again, you have focus for the next exhibitors which are presenting their objects or they have their presentation.

Judith van Vliet: And it really taps into indeed my question that I wanted to ask you guys. Because in my opinion, in September last year, there was sort of a color boom. There was more color being used. And I think that also was due to coming out of our homes again, right now I see that some of your work that you've selected, and I'd like to know a little bit about how you've selected designers and artists when it comes to color. Because some of the work, it is very colorful and it's really like candy to the eye, let's call it like that. And others, the absence of color tends to play also the role of silence. Just like you said, there's constantly impulses stimuli, especially on Design Week. We're getting so overwhelmed. How do you think both can live side by side color and then the non color?

Margriet Vollenberg: Yeah, well, they can live side by side. They are here side by side. But I totally agree what you're saying, because I think I also saw this almost two different parts where designers were walking, one of color and the other one of the absence. Because what we see and I think also it is almost like the moment the designers work with nature together, or they work with materials that they, for example, recycle, or they work with material studies, natural coloring, etc, etc. Then you go to these soft tones, earth tones of sometimes even almost white or sand colors. And on the other side we have those well, let's call it the recycling of plastics or the recycling, you know, that are always very almost colorful. Exactly. Very dramatic. That is a very great combination which you see here. And for me, it's not that I selected on that. I mean, it's not that I select on color, but exactly as you said at a certain point, that there were two ways, those two things that were.

Remi Versteeg: Happening, even want to add a third. Because I think you also now see much more material as color, especially now during more sustainability and ecological. So we make use of really more pure materials and then you will see the colors of the nature. And I think that you could even place it as three different kind of directors, of course, working together and also enhance each other.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. What are you both seeing material use wise? So you said just natural materials, because obviously we're all thinking about ecological design innovation in this perspective, everybody's thinking about the whole sustainability. What are you seeing that you think is new?

Margriet Vollenberg: I think the way the designers dive in those materials, I really want to understand them and how they are reacting. For example, we have this designer that really knows everything about Rafia. They mean how also the coloring of rubber stuff. Yeah. And it's a total color. It's a natural material. He's making shoes of the material. The soles are natural rubbers. So it's like always, the designer really wants to emerge in it to understand completely. We have this American designer, Abigail, and she is well, she dove into the bioplastics and what can it do and how does it react and what if a natural color is added on that? Almost at a certain point, when she added natural color, it looked almost unnatural because of the translucent of it. It had a very strange light effect and copper effect. I think it is completely different what designers are doing now. They dive into that material research and something else comes out of it. It's different than, for example, a company that has to do something with sustainability because they have to. This is like the next step, I.

Remi Versteeg: Think, to go on with that part. Like, we also have some boochis company. They make acoustic spray from old big banners from outside where you have these big bowls with attractions on it. So they crush it again and they just reuse it in a spray. It becomes gray because all the colors together become gray. And it's a very cheap and even natural way of sustainability and reuse, which is also exhibiting here at what I.

Margriet Vollenberg: Like, then, for example, gets new purpose because of having a spray of toilet paper. You have an acoustic effect in that. So again, when you dive into it, when you look further and when you experiment with it, you get new results and new possibilities.

Judith van Vliet: And that's the surprise effect that you were talking about, right? That's also a surprise because when you're working with a new material in a different way, color maybe comes along naturally, but it's not imposed. It added maybe, perhaps, yes, in the end part of the process. But it has more natural flow, I guess, than what we did for the last couple of years. Do you agree with that?

Remi Versteeg: Totally, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think to have a material and then paint it is quite dishonest, I think. Why aren't we smart enough to use something with the material and the color it has? You can have big surprises.

Judith van Vliet: I personally believe that the rule of color is becoming more important, and that's not because I'm a color designer and I work in color, but I do think that it has the power I mean, you just said it yourself, color makes people happy. So the power that it can have on people's well being is something that we've started to see a lot in design as well. Where do you believe color is heading in the world of design and architecture? Even maybe now what you're showing at Shiftoza, but even like in the next couple of years, what do you think that's going?

Remi Versteeg: Well, I think the color is going to be much more diverse. I think what I just told about the material as a color, how it's important, but I also have to address what we designed once, the boring collection. So my favorite color is boring gray. And a lot of people don't believe gray is the color. But I think it's an awesome color. It's one of the best colors, to my opinion, again, because it has all the colors in itself and what's great that you can make combination so it matches very well. A lot of colors are also signaling, so they are also distracting. I think we should curate the combination of color better. So I think you have a very important job in the sense, but we also should have spots where it's kind of more relaxed and at ease of this combination. And I think we are getting more and more grip on the combinations of color. To be able to read the color, you want to have that speaking, the colors that should kind of shine and show that there are next two coasts that are more laid back and are more to the back. And I think this is a trend that we're much more aware of the combinations. As you have the Japanese color book, which you probably know, which is an amazing book, where you have all different types of color combinations. I think people are more and more or I hope at the times that people more and more of how they have to combine course instead of just choosing a few.

Judith van Vliet: I think that's the duality that you're talking about. So expression, very colorful and then easy on the eye comfort, being, well, literally in a space with colors that are not stimulating or over stimulating you too much. I think those worlds are living side by side very much. No, I was just thinking about, indeed, the Boring Collection from Lansfeld, which indeed, that was something that was disruptive.

Remi Versteeg: Yeah, it's our collection. I designed it personally.

Judith van Vliet: Oh, wow.

Remi Versteeg: I moved we split in my previous office. So this was one of the projects which was really from my head. So we took it with us to be on Space, but we're still creating new pieces, and we found out that it's the perfect antidote to these overstimulation, and we're giving people and designers the tools to decide where it's not about and to give more podium for the colors or the expressions where it should be about.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it's about contrast in the end. How has color just generally I mean, you just said you designed the Boring Collection a couple of years ago. How is color influencing your careers, both of your careers, differently from, indeed, even Chateau's Initiative? But how does it influence your choices that you make, the people you work with? Is there a red line in how you tend to work with color?

Margriet Vollenberg: I think for me, as our director, when I make an exhibition like what we have here at Chateosa, I absolutely look at columns of the objects of the works presented, because I think it is color is a story, and when you make an exhibition, you're telling a story. So for me, it is very important what happens together. And sometimes that can be full of contrast. Other times, they have to work together. So for me, it's something important. But what I said before, also when you ask the introduction question is, for me, also very signs, period of time. So what is happening when if we think about Ma'am, we immediately have those colors in our head, or if we think about exactly, we immediately have the colors. So it is more than just a trend. It is almost it marks something that.

Remi Versteeg: Is interesting because basically, as architecture, as architects are very afraid of colors. Of course, renovated architect and also practicing. So from the history on, we are creating buildings that should last for 15 years. So that's why the color has a climate more quicker or shorter span of period. We're now doing a lot of interiors too. And you see within the interior branch, you already have five to ten years of research. And you can look at items which are changed even faster, like furniture. And as we are now, we're a multidisciplinary and we are able to kind of turn the buttons for all these different things. You see that we are also getting more color in our architecture to define exactly what you say, period of time. Don't be afraid of it. That it's just this moment and just grab the moment, which is totally fine. In our homework, we are using more. We talked about the material as color. So we really like the purity of the material and a combination of that. And we're also more and more trying to highlight objects which we normally want to kind of push away. Like for example, air insulations or floors, which we want to make gray or black. In our latest project, we made a full air installation of a nice mint green and looks amazing. And suddenly the space was much more spacious because suddenly the ceiling became another design element which we can use. And adding to that, we are also launching. During our first project, we worked on it for five years. It's a smoke detector and it's from a frustration where smoke detectors are always pruning, especially they are always white and always in plastic.

Judith van Vliet: Not very pretty.

Remi Versteeg: No, exactly. Nobody thought was need to be pretty. So that's why we are launching need. Because there are equipment we need and there are four devices. Slow loop, smoke detector, WiFi, router and ventilation. And you can spray them in every color you want because we made the functional part separate from the outer part. So you can click it all and you can just with the spray and you can make in every color. So again, this is very important that we give designers tools to make color essential. So we give them the freedom to work with that. And so you have to come and check it out, of course. And then we can create all the calls you like.

Margriet Vollenberg: What I would like to add on this is that I think also fashion did a lot of us also as designers and as architects. And there were maybe even ten years ago, it's not that long ago we were also a little bit afraid of.

Judith van Vliet: Carried a little bit architecture. Still a little bit afraid, definitely.

Margriet Vollenberg: For example, I don't want to talk about male female, she's proud. But I see now that and I really like that, that male designers are really much more into color than for example, ten years ago. And that is all that's about fashion that came closer to us it's because of a lot of different things like that. But it's a very good we see that in the designs that come out. For example, what you're saying now about meat and about the sodium detector that you can color, who cares? A few years ago, that's what we do now. And that's very good. I think it's something also when you make a collection, let's say you are a designer and you are designing chairs and you make a collection of chairs for now, it's not normal that they become red, yellow and green. It will be researched and designed as well. And that was different years ago.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, I think indeed design is not just more about functionality anymore. Color is not just about functionality anymore. Red, danger, blue if you want to eat less blue kitchens, it's just that you're less hungry technically. But it has a function, it has a color psychology part, but it also enables different sets of emotions in people. And I think that is indeed why we're seeing more color. Because after what's been happening over the past two years and what's still happening and what's happening with the war in Europe, I think people have a lot of emotions that sometimes, like you said, they need to be toned down by maybe grace and neutrals. And sometimes they just need to express themselves. Do you think you see that now after covet in the designs that you're seeing, do you see a difference from, let's say, precovette?

Remi Versteeg: Yes, I see it a lot in the interior design also because there was a transition and we want to have everything white, so it was spacious that it becomes more and more dark again, so people are more creating kind of more clothing. This is more intimate. And you see also that also due to I think also people were more on their phones and that they need to be pulled out of it so that it's much more also about your senses and your expressions you can create. So I think that it needs to have more impact now to show people how the world can look like. And I think before it was already a bit more like a standard size, and now we're going to show off again.

Judith van Vliet: Well, what I saw from your website, there are some installations that indeed go beyond shape. Color, they tap into multiple senses. You talked about light shows before. Is this, you think, where design is moving? Is this the new innovation which is really tapping into multiple senses?

Margriet Vollenberg: Yes, it's a new innovation I find really big. But I think it's also a very necessary thing. I don't think we talk about one dimension only anymore. We talk about different dimensions, different disciplines, different combinations. In fact, for example, the installation of Beyond Space and Boss, it's about sound, it's about life, it's about shape, it's about volumes. So all the senses are there. But we see that also create a chef, for example, with an insulation, totally white. But it's also about taste. It is about color, even if it's white. But the colors on your plate and.

Remi Versteeg: Some of perfume, it's about smell. We should do another installation with and Boris and the clean shed. We have all five senses together. Then we create our six cents.

Margriet Vollenberg: Yeah, exactly. That is completely for me, it's completely new. And then maybe also answering the question, what can we see at Chateau's Initiative where we cannot see it other places? We have all the senses here. In fact, you have a very good example with something else, perfume. It's about a sense. It's about how does stillness sense? What is the smell of stillness? And if you come into that room and it's amazing, because that's exactly what.

Judith van Vliet: It is, people have different reactions. Right? Because for me, silence is a different color, it's a different sound. Are you tapping into that what people are sensing when they're going in?

Remi Versteeg: So with the archives of we built a pyramid over there which is completely sprayed with the crusting material. So punish silence. Just go into the pyramid and then you will be at complete silence because there is no echo or whatsoever. If you go then to some tales of perfume and you close your eyes, you can be in a totally different world only because of your smell. If you go to the creative chef to lunch and then taste, it shows how important these elements are. And I think exactly what you're saying. I think we're one of the few exhibitions, expositions or initiatives which are combining all these together. But at the same time, we also have dance performances and we have a fashion show coming up, two or three every day. We have DJs coming on Wednesday on our Party International, going to show their art of sound. And we have live shows. So you can have everything you want. In my way to have an expression, it's over here.

Judith van Vliet: And that, I think, is very interesting. I think it started in retail. It started in retail that you would get your you went to a hairdresser and at the same time you could also buy a car and you could do your grocery shopping and you could also have lunch. But it's interesting that that now also is happening also in the design and in art weeks. In design weeks. So you are all encompassing. Let's say anything you're looking for, you just go to the initial and you'll find it.

Remi Versteeg: We do postcast, for example.

Judith van Vliet: Live interviews.

Margriet Vollenberg: On Thursday, press conferences.

Judith van Vliet: So with all these senses, indeed, you're trying to give people emotions. You want people to come to your event, obviously. That's why also we're doing this podcast while you're doing numbers of interviews, of course. But how do you want people to truly feel when they're again leaving your exhibition? What do you want to give them to them?

Remi Versteeg: Life experience. Then when. You go away here, you go back at home, you go to your husband or wife or whatsoever, or your friends and you have to tell how was Milan? And you will definitely got to put three, four things you've seen here. That's what you want to have from the past, when all the experiences I've been to Spanish and to Milan and to New York, and you always have a few of these things where you have this immersive experience, almost. And I think these are the things we can remember. Our mind is trained to remember that kind of moments where you're a bit out of your comfort zone and all your senses go on. And I think here also with the lightest days with Boris Architect, which we have every evening, we want to kind of give people like, whoa, what's happening over here? And then from the human body will kind of put on all senses and then you're vulnerable with it. And then you can get really new stuff. So when people leave, they've been here, they definitely have a few of these experience. It could be some piece of perfume, it could be created Chevrolet. But you will go home with these amazing experiences which you can get on your phone.

Judith van Vliet: They will go home inspired, at least with new emotions.

Remi Versteeg: They will film it, they will do everything, they will put it on Instagram. But everybody who's been here will remember it much better than when you just see it on your phone.

Judith van Vliet: What about you? What do you want to give?

Margriet Vollenberg: I mean, not so much to add that I think it's also about imagination. We are a black campus. The designers, the exhibitors, they filled it in. This is what it is now. And by having the experience to be here, your imagination starts creating. And that is exactly what I would like to do with the public. I want that they have this experience, start thinking further, give it back again, and I mean again, you have this dialogue that is just growing and growing. Beautiful. Let the show begin.

Judith van Vliet: Yes, let the show begin. Just one last question. What's next for you guys after this? I know we still have to start. I'm full aware of that. What is next after Milan?

Margriet Vollenberg: Okay, now, for me, it is a project that I launched here, which is called Join and New. And we join a new we are creating almost this platform where online, where digital designers can come together, people from the creative industry and where they come together with us, together with Join you, they can be helped in the professional business international designers. I launched it two years ago in the Netherlands. And here we are in to push the borders to go further, to do that internationally.

Judith van Vliet: That's you, Marquee. So that's your new project. How about you?

Remi Versteeg: We will have our Basel after this. On the 16th period, we will have also a spatial intervention for one of the galleries to again make the viewing of the artworks which are presented more interesting again, get people their senses to get open, to get a bit anxious sometimes, or surprise, let's say positively, to open up and see the new things.

Judith van Vliet: So at Basel for you, which is.

Margriet Vollenberg: Like tomorrow, technically, my partner signed the.

Remi Versteeg: V. He will take that one. So I did this one with them and I think I hope I still have enough energy to pass by, but I know for sure he can set up the same high expectation and performance as we do here.

Judith van Vliet: Well, guys, I just want to thank you for your time and I wish you all the best of luck for the press conference today and obviously for the rest of this week. We'll see each other on Thursday. And Kudos. Yes, congrats.

Margriet Vollenberg: Thank you so much.

Remi Versteeg: Thank you so much.

Judith van Vliet: Thank you all for listening to this podcast with Chateausa Initiatives founders, Amy and Marshid. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you're going to be visiting Chateausa Initiative. Please do so, because Thursday the 9 June, I'm going to be doing again an exclusive live interview at five with some of the designers of Chateau's Initiative. So make sure that if you're Milan, that you're going to be there. My next interview is going to be launched in two weeks time and that's going to be with Sarah Forcemark. Sarah Forcemark is working for Adidas and we're going to talk about global color vision. So stay tuned and enjoy Milan Design Week.