S5E07 Totally Obsessed with Trendstefan

There is a reason why I picked this title and you hear that when you listen to the conversation. Stefan is a true trend hunter who never stops searching for the new as his curiosity brings him to over 30 fairs a year. In this interview we talk about what is trending right now, what is coming and we wonder about what the future may bring when it comes to color and its application.

 Stefan ”Trendstefan” Nilsson is one of Sweden’s and Scandinavia’s most influential trend experts. Constantly on foot, he visits fairs and world cities to scout the latest in design, lifestyle, sustainability, retail and hospitality. These insights are shared in various magazines and at seminars. Trendstefan also runs the design arena Designgalleriet, and is most visible on social media under @trendstefan. Swedish magazine Rum have listed Trendstefan as one of the most influential people in architecture and design in Sweden. 

Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Color Authority podcast. I hope you're sitting down because this is going to be one dynamic conversation. I'm going to be interviewing Stefan Nilsson. Now, that probably doesn't say much to you, but Trend Stefan probably does because he's one of Sweden's and Scandinavia's most influential trend experts. He's constantly on foot. He visits about 30 fairs a year world cities to scout the latest indesign lifestyle, sustainability, retail and hospitality. These insights are shared in various magazines and at seminars. Trent Stefan also runs the design arena designgalariet and is most visible on social media. Under TrendStefan, Sweden's magazine Rum has listed Trent Steven as one of the most influential people in architecture and design in Sweden. Let's find out what's happening in the world and what trends we should be looking at. Good morning, Stefan. Welcome to the Color Authority podcast. How are you this morning?

Trendstefan: I'm great, thank you. I need to think a bit. Am I good? Yeah, I am good. I'm usually very optimistic and. Yeah, and today is one of those good days, I think. Yeah, yeah, I'm good.

Judith van Vliet: Well, it's always a good day when you talk about color. I mean, we have.

Trendstefan: That's true.

Judith van Vliet: So I have that very same question to everybody who I invite, and that is, what is color to you? So what is color to you personally, Stefan?

Trendstefan: I. I am a very colorful person. I would like to identify as. And we're now recording this. And you can see my living room, and I have various colors on the walls and in the ceilings. I am a very colorful person. I think I like to be. Yeah. I identify that because it gives you an opportunity to express your personality. So. Yeah, yeah, I'm a very colorful person. I would like to say. I even have red hair a bit nowadays.

Judith van Vliet: That's natural, right? Your hair is natural.

Trendstefan: Yeah, it is natural. But we sort of, like, help it nowadays at the age we are at, so we help out. Yeah, no, but I am redheaded, and I also identify as a redhead, sort of like a pipeline stocking kind of person. So, like. Yeah, loud and about. That's what I. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Well, you are obviously from. From the nordic, so that's the perfect story. And I can see indeed, the green reflecting in your shirt.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Actually, it reflects back in my, my earrings. There's always a red light in color. I love when we talk about color. Like, when you talk about specific color, suddenly you see it everywhere.

Trendstefan: Yeah. Yeah. Do you have a favorite color? I mean, that's a kind of tricky question.

Judith van Vliet: It's one of those questions that a lot of people ask me, and I tend to change. I know I'm a yellow person, so I have the beiges, the sand colors, yellows. I tend to shine. I tend to be a person that needs to shine with those colors. So it's definitely warm. But because of my blue eyes and today I'm also wearing blue, it's more like a lavender reddish blue. Those are also colors because of, I guess, me being blonde and blue eyes, they fit me very well. I must say that my Wardrobe is still not completely adapted to this. Being a yellow person, I'm still moving that area slowly, but I stopped buying black.

Trendstefan: Good, Judy. Good, good. I can't understand all these people in the creative industry who are all wandering around the cities wearing black, or like, who are you? What's your identity? I have one color that I am difficulties with that I really love. I really love apricot and peach. So, like, at the reddish tones. And every now and then, when that comes back as a trend color, I fall in love with it automatically. I love that color, but I cannot wear it because since I'm a redhead and I'm also red skinned, it's sort of like, clashes and I can't wear it, but I love it. It's a strong love with that feeling and I can't have it.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, that's the same with me with yellow because I'm so also fair skinned even now living in Madrid, but I'm still fair skinned. There are some yellow will work and some that won't. So. And I think that's still where people, when, when I talk about color, that's still where people struggle. They very often go to trend colors and not necessarily trend colors are the ones that make you feel good and not always ones that actually suit you very well. That's very largely what you do. You know, you even are, I mean, I didn't even know your last name. I just saw.

Trendstefan: I don't have a last name anymore.

Judith van Vliet: I still don't know how to name. I'm still thinking about how am I going to call the podcast? You're like, like Trendstefan or should I use your full name? I'm not sure if people to understand it's you. When I know that.

Trendstefan: Either or that works, I want to be like Princess Diana. I have no last name. You know, that's me.

Judith van Vliet: I mean, that's a strong branding that you have over there. I think that is because what you do, you've been doing it for so many years, you do it so exquisitely. Well, the way also, you present, because we met in Prague the first time, may I believe that was just, you know, just the way you speak and we present, you have a lot of energy. You travel the world to see what is new, what is innovative, what are people doing, what are they feeling, what are people moved by? Because I think it's all in the emotional level. How do you, how do you select where you go and where you don't go? Like, because it's not. Sometimes. It's the same with Milan design Week. I know you've been, too. You're like, oh, this big artist. This is going to be. You're inside and you're like, meh. But how do you make your list? How do you know, know where to go and what we're not?

Trendstefan: Well, you're asking a big question and lots of, like, some understandings there. I travel. You need to have an open mind. So I try to travel to unexpected places. The easy answer to, like, all the fairs I go to, I will go to anyone that people invite me to. And I could go to, like, a bathroom fair because you always learn something. And I think that's sort of like, you need to keep an open mind. I mean, who wants to go to a bathroom fair? Who wants to do that? But I will go because, like, you learn something, you learn. So that there's, like, changes in the way the porcelain in the bathroom is, you know, is evolving and also colors in bathrooms. So, yeah, I'll go to. I'll go anywhere where people invite me to. That's first thing. Secondly, when you go to, like, a big event like Milan or, like, Paris is also kind of big. I need to go to where the established brands are. I need to see them because they are sort of confirming, maybe they're not ahead of things, but they're confirming something. And then I need to see the younger audience, and I need to see the young talents because that's where things are really sort of, like, happening. But then again, like, in Milan, I came across this American studio, studio wrapped. I'm against name dropping, so I'm not going to be doing that. But they were called studio wrapped, and they did an installation which was about, like, where is our creativity going? And I think that's one of the key questions of our times, speaking about, like, value changes, how things are changing, and when everyone can do anything on AI, where is creativity leading us? Is it going to be very generic or extremely personalized? It's either or. And they would say that we think that thing will get generic. And I agree. And I think that the new creative things that are standing out and looks different is. Are the new it items that we want to have, not the generic ones.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Trendstefan: So, yeah, there was a long answer to your short question.

Judith van Vliet: It's a good one. No, because I even struggle with that sometimes. Like, I should go or not going to dutch design week, you know, because that's where that. What you said, that's where that first student innovation, that newness is coming from. But it's. I think it's interesting to. To make that selection, and indeed, you go where people invite you to. That's the first thing. And sometimes you find things in such unexpected airs or shops or moments. What is a cool hotspot that you see right now and you think that people should really take into account when they're making their agenda?

Trendstefan: I think that maybe it's a bit early, but I think that we're going to see a huge focus on eastern Europe because of cost efficiency. I can see how the whole wine industry right now is moving towards eastern Europe because everything is getting expensive right now because of inflation and we want to save money. So we're now buying wines from eastern Europe because they're cheaper still. And I think that also we might see that also from a design perspective, like, maybe we'll buy chairs that were made in the baltic states or, like, Romania. So I think they're still lacking a bit of, like, a level of creativity. But I. I think maybe there's an opportunity there. I hear people are talking about the design week in Bucharest. I haven't been, but maybe we'll see that. But otherwise than that, I think that where is the most creative hub in Europe? I have to say that large, established cities need to be mentioned. So, yes, Milan. Yes, Paris. Not necessarily London right now, but maybe they will come. Not Berlin. From a design perspective. From an art perspective, yes, but not from a design perspective. So, yeah, Paris and Milan. Yeah. And maybe Spain. And I think also Lisbon is kind of interesting right now.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, yeah, definitely for textiles, ceramics.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: There's a lot happening in the art world as well, but those are definitely emerging. You know, it's slowly, slowly emerging, which is indeed, indeed interesting.

Trendstefan: I keep my eye out for Valencia in Spain because also they have the industry surrounding that city. So I think that could also be, like, potentially like an interesting destination. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: I'm thinking about going to Habitat in September just to have a feel about what that's about, because I've never been and it's a relatively new thing. It's going to be interesting. You're talking about fair season now. It's sort of like June indeed is slow. There's, I mean, unless you obviously went to neon Khan in Chicago. I tried to do my fares within Europe, not so much. But now that fair season is slowing down. But there's always a design fair, just like we just said. Heimtzville, Stockholm, Milan, Paris. It seems to you almost can never. Palma, you went to Ksant as well. What is a red line from what you can see from the first part of this year of what you see when it comes to trends? Or is there something that you see popping up in several cities and several fairs?

Trendstefan: Yeah, I don't have my list. I'll need to look at my papers. I prepared for this meeting. Of course I did. I think that the whole design industry is pretty affected. I mean, what happened also, you need to look at sort of like a larger scope. A whole interior design industry exploded during the pandemic because people were investing in their homes. And then when we sort of like opened the doors and we could go out, people completely stopped investing and buying things for interior homes, also for offices. Completely stopped. And then you had the energy crisis and then had the financial crisis and then you have a recession. I mean, so from like a super high, it came a deep, deep, deep, deep low. And I think that we still see the after birth of that meaning that we see like people are afraid. People are not investing in new designer names or new design or new aesthetics. Everything basically looks the same, but the only thing that's different from last year is the color. So there is a huge focus on colors, but the actual design is not different. So the sofa is the same from last year, but it's a new color. The chair is the same as from last year, but a new color candle holder, everything is the same, but a new color. So that's where the focus is. But I've seen that we're actually now getting closer to shift. I talked about that American studio that was talking about where is this new creativity going? And I saw that also in Milan where there were like talks about, okay, so we're now working from home. You are working from home and I'm working from home. So who needs an office? Or what should the office look like? Or what should our homes look like? So the whole, there's like a larger question actually rising right now, which is like, what is a home? What is the kitchen? Should we cook in the kitchen? Or should we have like fedoras or whatever those food delivery brands you have, or should they be doing that? Or should we have the kitchen as something else? I have my kitchen in my living room right now. And is that the future of the home, or is it something different? You know, so these questions are quite interesting, but no one is taking a stand and saying it's this. People are just having, like, the conversation, but no one is giving a firm answer, saying, like, okay, so this is the answer.

Judith van Vliet: People are waiting. I feel like we're on pause. And what I always see, you know, when you do trends, you look at what's happening in the world generally. Everybody is waiting for what's happening politically.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Not just in Europe, but we all know that the American elections have very big influence on everything we do and what we buy and our economy. I hope this is not going to be like this until November, but it is something that influences a lot. I feel people are not daring. I think daring accepts. They're daring more with color. That's what I'm seeing. But they're not daring enough when it comes to real innovation and real novel. They're not putting themselves out there. And you see that in affairs. Everybody's working with these high end top designers and, like, literally five names that are working with the big brands. And it's lovely. They do amazing work, but there is a lot of great people, I think.

Trendstefan: I totally, I totally agree. I'm so. I'm so bored with these five names. We don't have to give up these names to the audience, but I think we all know who they are because, I mean, every brand out there is working with, like, five people, and they're reoccurring on all these other places. And I was like, yeah, give me a new name. But that's why I was really happy when I went to Copenhagen and I could see a big brand like Vitra is now doing new things with people I've never heard of. And regardless of the outcome of that sofa, I just love that they're working with new people because it gives me a reason to fall in love again. And that's also what this is also why this industry is so appealing, because you fall in love, you fall in love with people, you fall in love with pieces, you fall in love with opportunities. Falling in love is a big part of my job, and I love falling in love, and I need that. And I. Yeah, these five names. Yeah, I've seen them so much.

Judith van Vliet: We know what they can do. And I think that's the whole safe playing that a lot of brands are doing. They just. Everybody wants to go safe, and then indeed, it gets a little bit boring. Right?

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Talk about those colors. Because, yes, the color game, people are, you know, improving their color game, that's for sure. Whether the colors that you really see that are really out there and that you would even suggest people to do something with, feel that they're new as well.

Trendstefan: Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Is it. Am I allowed? I think that the whole trend game right now, especially with colors, is, like, exploding so fast. And I was just wondering, is it me or is it, or do you see that as well? Let me give you an example. At the beginning of the year, we saw colors at textile fairs. Like, I'm textile. People were talking about yellows and purple. I know you were working with the purple and yellows. And then all of a sudden, you go to Milan and it's all about burgundy, and then you go to Copenhagen, and it's all about pale blues. It's like, we've leaving. I mean, colors are not right now lasting for more than two or three months, or do you see the same thing as I am or.

Judith van Vliet: I think it's difficult. I find it ever more difficult because with most clients that I work with, it's a yearly. It's not even seasonal.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: And it becomes trickier because if one client asked me a project today, I'll have certain colors, but then if a client, even in a similar market, asked me colors two, three months ago, or probably in the next three months, I'll probably different colors again because I'm seeing other things. I feel that the standard of what we say is color trends, I think is wider and wider.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: And it doesn't mean that somebody's right and the other person is wrong, but I do feel there's a lot of choice, but I think that choice is confusing brands as well.

Trendstefan: Right, right.

Judith van Vliet: Because people are like, I saw, like, the icy blues.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Burgundy and the chartreuse is still old in Milan. And then if you don't see that in other fairs, people are like, oh, but maybe then I got.

Trendstefan: It's out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's. I think that something's happening with color right now, and it's enormously interesting because it's, like, exploding so much and the colors are so important right now. People are talking about the exact neons of burgundy or the exact neons of that ainse bleu. It's like, it's not like, oh, it's going to be a light blue and people are specific, like, hardcore. It's going to be that one. And I think that's kind of interesting to see how that's evolving as well. Right now. I think that we're going to see more colors, but I think that we're going to be also seeing a stop of colors soon.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Which colors do you feel are like, yeah, no. Been there, done that. Stop it. Stop using them.

Trendstefan: There's one color that I really like that I see is not so very common, which is like, orange. I like orange. Orange is a color that I'm emotionally attached to because I'm a redhead, and there's no orange. Nothing orange at all. And I think that also people are using the words. I don't think that people are using color experts enough, because I think that also people could be working with color experts. There's, like, plenty of them. And maybe find the color combination that's good for a brand, sort of what their stands for, and not just follow the burgundy trend, because that's happening right now. Maybe you should do a more. A yellow trend. Sorry, more yellow red and not so blue. Red as burgundy could be more like chili or tomato and not as blue as burgundy could be. And I think that people are putting their color choices in the hands of designers, and designers are not necessarily good at colors. They are good at design, and they're good at doing chairs, and that's what they should be doing. A color expert should be something else that should be brought along under the color of the chair. What suits a kitchen? Maybe yellow and green and red aren't the perfect kitchen colors for chairs. Maybe it's something else.

Judith van Vliet: Well, as a color expert, I fully agree with that.

Trendstefan: Obviously, I'm not surprised.

Judith van Vliet: I think also with. With orange, what we still see is obviously the whole terracotta, you know?

Trendstefan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: The burnt oranges and the dark, they're not new, but I have the feeling they're becoming this new neutral. Like, they're. Yeah, they're just somehow staying together with all the reds, browns, and the beiges and the sands. Like, they're like, neutral palette that seems to always be popping up. And I feel when it comes to. With color to products or whatever you're doing, in my work, I see clients using less trends. They want me to look more at the market, their brand and their product. It doesn't make it easier, but, yeah. To go with the color of the year and then just stick it on everything. Yeah, it's definitely not working. And especially orange is a beautiful color. I fully agree with you. But it's also a very difficult color to apply in interior designs.

Trendstefan: Right. Totally.

Judith van Vliet: For product. But in interior designs, it's always a bit, it's tricky. Like, like I'm yellow and like, sometimes purple. Purple is colors that just psychologically people are like, oh, no, no, purple. It's funny. I don't know why that is.

Trendstefan: Yeah. Yeah. But I think that, I think it is so funny with colors because people are so emotional about colors. I think that's super, super interesting. I mean, for my generation, I'm super old Judy from my generation, for instance, blue has a certain, like, association with it because blue is very conservative. My parents would be using blue when I was brought up. And so blue is a very, like, boring color. I would not be using blue. I mean, now I have a turquoise on my, in my living room. But that's not really the blue I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. I think it's interesting that people are associating things with colors.

Judith van Vliet: Yep. Yeah. And it's interesting that more people want to know about color so they understand color. That's very much seeing them in my work. But when we mostly talk about design and color and trends. But what, what is the first thing before all of that is lifestyle.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: How are people moving? What are behaving? What are eating? What's going on? What do you see coming up that you think is going to be big?

Trendstefan: That's still a big question. I can answer a short and easy answer, and that's saying that. I think that, I mean, nostalgia is huge, and you heard me say that on stage. And I think that we're going to maintain nostalgia for a while because it's likable and we need likable things right now because it's a scary world. Yeah. Do you know, for instance, also, I'm returning a question to you. Do you know, when do you use animal prints? What sort of, like, circumstances makes you use animal prints? Recession. Recession. The answer is recession. During recessions, we always use animal prints. And you can see that also in patterns right now, also in fabrics or furniture pieces, zebra and leopard. And everything is like animal prints because it's a recession. And I think that we need to be confirming that we have a recession. We're going to be continuing that. So. And I think that also, therefore, you have nostalgia. And nostalgia is a safe space to go to. I mean, there's also a niceness with it. We're looking for nice attitudes. I heard that and I double checked it. And also the listeners can do, I heard that self reduce turned the whole department store in London into a fun house. So, like, all the window displays were like laughing mirrors, whatever you call it in English. And there was, like, happy people, like, showing you around into the department store. So, like, I think that all, all this niceness is enormously important. I see also, like, especially in the food segment, how people are now experimenting with food. Today I saw that Pringles, you know, the potato chip Pringles is now collaborating with the Caviar house so you can do your caviar tasting with Pringles. That's super strange, but also kind of funny. It makes you laugh, you know. Yeah, we need that.

Judith van Vliet: Like the pop art movement, you know?

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: I mean, pop art, I feel also, art wise, that is coming again, back and has its cycles. But it is that fun part, because pop art is, is fun. And not necessarily, that's only Andy Warhol. I'm talking Ronnie Cutrone. I'm talking Basquiat.

Trendstefan: Yeah, exactly.

Judith van Vliet: No, there's a lot of these. We here in Madrid, we have, I think, also a museum of fun. So, I mean, that's. And that's just fun and laughing. And I think that's what we, we need. But I totally agree on the nostalgia. And yes, I'm guilty. I have a zebra chair, so, which is so quiche, but I kind of like it.

Trendstefan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Find your own flavor. I mean, I think it's fine, but I think that as, I mean, again, as an overview of our lifestyle, I think that consumerism is absolutely challenged right now. And I think that nostalgia is a way to approach that, meaning that, like, you could do things with old things or vintage or upcycling or whatever you want to do, but you don't want to buy new things today. Also, I told you about the Pringles and the caviar thing today. I also saw that the fashion brand Jacques Meuse, did you say that? Jaquemus? Yeah, I'm not so good a friend. They opened a flower shop in Paris where they used upcycled fabrics that they're not using anymore to cover. So, like, the bouquet of the flowers. And again, that's a way of working with your brand as doing something different. I think the flowers are super intelligent, but also, then the upcycling aspect of wrapping the flowers in fabrics they're not using and super interesting. That's something.

Judith van Vliet: We see things and it's. But I think they're interesting and they're good. So when nostalgia obviously means nostalgia is something that comes back and very often it comes back when we are in a recession or when, yeah, **** hits the fan. Which literally. Yes. How, how important we all look back because a lot of people say, well, yeah, you need to watch the future. Yes, but you also need to watch the past. How do you observe the past and to see what may happen. Like what cycles do you see? Whether that's 90 year cycle or ten year cycle or even a bigger one. How do you do that research and feel when something is really happening?

Trendstefan: Yeah, it's with all the trends as in general first. I mean, you need to see how something is emerging. That's the seed, something interesting. I talked about the cases of Pringles and the dragon. These are seeds. And when people are copying that and making it more commercially available, when it comes to Zara and H and M, then it's reached full circle and then it's available. So, and that's, that's sort of like lifespan from the seed with someone who's doing something creatively interesting. And then when it becomes mass market, that's usually two or three years. Usually. And sometimes it speeds up and sometimes it slows down, but usually that's a cycle of two, three years. So I think that we're going to be. I've seen nostalgia now for two or three years. So I think that my eyes are now wandering to the next thing. But for the mass market, again, depending on who you're talking to, are you talking to a brand who are. In the terms of creating something? Yes, go for nostalgia. But if you're a designer or a creative person who wants to do something that stands out, don't do nostalgia, do something else. I know that people are talking a lot about wellness and longevity. We're now living longer. I have difficulty seeing how that's going to be becoming products. I think that's more like an attitude. And I. But then again, people are talking about it. But I'm waiting for. To see the first actual examples of products. Yeah, I'm waiting for that.

Judith van Vliet: Very healthcare oriented. We think of bigger tech companies as well, whether we like, we like that they're not. But I think when I think about wellness and healing and all of that, it's also very. How color can help in that definitely is moving away from what then really is color trends, although you can still adapt those softer, tranquil colors. But I think color can be very healing. And I think we're moving into that area as well.

Trendstefan: Yeah, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: You can use color to just feel better during your day.

Trendstefan: Yeah. But also performance wise, I mean, sometimes you need colors to sharpen your focus, and sometimes you need to have colors that sort of, like, opens your mind for creativity or other thinking. So color can help that. Like, strong colors that's sharpening or softer colors are relaxing. I mean, so that's. Yeah, I think absolutely, you can work with colors in that sense. But I think also it's important to change. I mean, you should not be in the same room the whole day. I mean, work wise or whatever.

Judith van Vliet: Or color wise.

Trendstefan: Or color wise. Yeah, yeah. Look how complex nature is. I mean, I think it's super important. I think that's also something that we're looking to right now, and we're going to be doing that for a long time. We're looking at into nature. I'm not saying biophilic design, because that's like the trend of five years ago or something, but I think that, you know, maybe not necessarily take in nature, but rather be out in nature and then just wandering around and let your minds drift. I think that's something I think we'll see.

Judith van Vliet: I think the outdoor, which has started with COVID it's. We're only at the beginning of it. I mean, I see it very much in other countries where the climate is even drier. So I'm looking at Mexico. There's just literally, I mean, those beautiful haciendas, they don't even have walls. They just have a room in case sometimes, you know, you need to protect it for some rain, but. And then they have this brutalist movement. The brutalist movement in Mexico and Latin America, but also in Spain, is very architecture wise and interior design wise. And it's interesting because you almost don't see that difference between the surrounding, which is very rocky, deserty, cacti and the house. So it's more that movement and that's not biophilia. This is just completely integrating yourself in your surroundings, which is.

Trendstefan: Yeah, I still think that the cities will be like magnets. I still think, like on a mega trend, long term basis. I think that cities will be still be magnets. And we want to go to citizen and be young and go to clubs and meet people. So cities will be destinations. But I think that also, there's a talk of other things. I think that cities are also trying to become more like have. Like at least have a park section. I think that absolutely the concept of the line in New York, it's not new. What is it, 20 years, 1520 years or so? I think the cities want to have that so you can be close to something that looks like nature, but in the city.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, yeah. And another topic that I've been following closely is migration due to climate change.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: This is going to be. Going to be big as well. So this is absolutely, absolutely for our homes, how we're going to protect ourselves. I just sat in yesterday with somebody who says that in Dubai, most apartments now don't even have windows because windows makes light come in. And that's. And I'm just like, we're going to live in bunkers. That makes just completely depressed. Like, don't want to use color inside. I'll be depressed.

Trendstefan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally agree. I totally agree. I totally agree. I think that also migration and climate changes are enormously important and going to be affecting our lives. Absolutely, absolutely.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. In a recent interview, very interesting, you said that we are slowly moving away from these neutrals. We see that. We see these people obsessed with color. Is. Is it that we are obsessed with color or that more people know about color and people are adapting color? Why do you think that is? Is it just because it's fun or are we really finally learning how to apply color?

Trendstefan: I wish the later was true. I think that. I think where our eyes are wondering to people who have the self esteem to play around with colors, there's no right or wrong. I mean, you have the living room. You see that in the picture and maybe you'll do a snapshot or I'll send you a picture. Regardless of my living, where I am in. When I did this living room, I had a Norwegian color expert help me and she colored the ceiling. It's actually Sandy. You see the white area on the wall, so it's sandy. And she said, the city of Stockholm is like, built of houses that have a sandy hue. It's not terracotta, it's Sandy. So the reflections from the outside comes in with the sandy here and the ceiling. So. And I think that people are just playing around and I think that this is something that's. And there's also a way to talk about not buying things. You're just adding colors. I love that people are playing with colors. They have a door in a different color, they have a window sill in a different color. It's like, I just love that people are playing around with that. And I think that's. That's a new kind of creativity. I think that the whole creative cluster of color experts, it's still kind of new. And I think that we should have more of that. I think that we should have, like, schools. We have the school that teach designers. We should have schools that teach, like, color experts, and we should. That there's no right or wrong. It's just about having more. I don't get tired of glasses. I know there's, like, tons of people making glasses. I'm not tired of glasses. This is a glass of water. It's, like, still early, so I'm not drinking anything else but water. So it's, I mean. Yeah, more colors. There's no right or wrong.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Trendstefan: I think that also the paint the wall paint companies should tone down a bit and let other people's play the role of using colors.

Judith van Vliet: There's a lot of these new ones on Instagram, which I. And a lot of creativity there. And also, I get that you don't buy a new sofa and everything a year because not, we can't afford that. And also, it wouldn't be sustainable. But to change the color of your, your walls, you could, that's something you could even do every year if you want, or even often. And a friend of mine always says, if you want to experiment with color, just start with the bathroom or with it, you know, the little room in the house.

Trendstefan: Right.

Judith van Vliet: And just go see there because just, you know, and see what, you know, what effects it has on you. So it's, it's interesting advice. I think those start with the small things.

Trendstefan: And I agree.

Judith van Vliet: Do what?

Trendstefan: You totally agree?

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Do what makes you feel good.

Trendstefan: I had this conversation the other week about, with a woman who had a super small kitchen, which is like, not everyone has a huge kitchen. I mean, it was super small kitchen, and she experimented with color in that room, that small kitchen room. And I think again, yeah, start with a small thing, and then you'll, you'll see it's not so scary, and you will not get tired of it, and you'll adopt and you'll love a new color next year. I think it's nice.

Judith van Vliet: Totally nice. How do you think, when we look at a couple of years ago and where we are now with color, where do you think we're going to move next? Or when would you like us to move next? When it comes to color and material as well, because you can't really separate the two of them. What do you think is coming next? Now that we have this huge color bubble a little bit all over the place, it's not very centered.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Are we going to be more centered in the near future, you feel?

Trendstefan: Yes, I think that. Absolutely. I think that we're now, you know, quite recently, we're starting to see stars in this industry. There's a Swedish girl that's called Teclan, and she's. Yeah, yeah. And I think that there are other people out there as well, of course. And I think what. And what they are contributing with is, like, they're actually working with colors. And I think that's, that's super interesting. And, and she is amazing in what she's doing. She has a playful approach to it. It's not difficult. It's just a matter of love. I talk about this whole trend and design in the sense, but about falling in love, and you get the same sensation with her as well. She's falling in love with a specific hue of yellow or specific hue of reds. I mean, you're falling in love with something, and that's fine. When we have that, we have these kind of, like, stars that sort of, like, also have a professional angle. They're not doing it just for the fun of it, but they're actually professionals. Then it's going to level up. And I think that we're not done with this leveling up. I think that we're going to have, as well as we have these five designer names, maybe we will have five color experts that are, like, talking about that. I think that you can also look at the british designer Yinka Illoori. What he's doing is also super interesting. What he's doing. He's talking about colors that make you happy, and it's like, yeah, we need people to talk about colors from a different angle and not necessarily doing a chair. You know, they can talk about red and not do a chair. Yeah. We're just on the beginning of this. There's going to be more.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. And. Oh, no, I'm not really seeing that pop up with Matthew Williamson, obviously, but also the Brazilian Lot, you know, he does amazing.

Trendstefan: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. Yeah. He's also one of those people. Totally amazing. So if. Listen, if the listeners, if you do not follow Michel Lot, it's a must. He's on Instagram, and he is my number one Instagram account that I. So, like, every picture you fall in love with everything in that picture. Yeah, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Now that I'm in Spain, I'm also falling in love. I mean, I've followed them before, but maybe it is because my surrounding has changed. Six months. Like Patricia Bustos. Like, I love her color game because it's exactly my color. It's those soft yellows and soft lilacs, but there's. There's so many. So there's so much new talent that is popping up that I wish they would be more visible. I'd wait.

Trendstefan: I think. I think that. I think it's a very feminine driven industry. I mean, a lot of these stars are female or have, like, a female association with them.

Judith van Vliet: I'm happy to have you on, because yesterday, everybody went through my Instagram and said, so, is this a feminist podcast? Because I'm only seeing women. I'm like, just scroll down. There's men. But seriously, it's very female driven.

Trendstefan: Yeah. And I think that there's going to be, like, a. A hindrance there. Perhaps, like, men. Architects are going to be saying, like, no, we don't do colors. We only wear black. We don't do colors because they're afraid. I think you definitely should look at houses also from. From color perspective. I know that the Norwegian color expert, Dagnit, she's the one who's doing my house, and she's talking about architecture a lot. So she's doing, like, color of the houses. Like, and I think that also one of the conversations about the future, like, how do we make our city feel safe? We have gang violence. I mean, there's, like, a safety issue out there, and maybe the houses should not be gray, or maybe they should, like, different tones of, like, pastels. I don't know, but we should have this conversation. Maybe colors will make you feel safer in the city.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. I'm seeing a lot of articles lately on some modern architecture, and also on a few. There's a lot of posts and articles on how the world used to, like, especially, obviously, in what is Europe, we have beautiful architecture that's very old, and then you sometimes see those new buildings just like what happened here, like, and we are becoming more gray and gray. And I do think that color, if you beautify a neighborhood using color people to care more about it, you know, they care more about their neighborhood. They want to keep it clean. They want to keep it perhaps safe. It's a different area. And I think definitely there's. There's. There's something that we can do about that.

Trendstefan: Yeah. Yeah, we lost. We lost the whole conversation. I mean, just look at the Bauhaus movement and courbossier. I mean, there's so much colors. We've just lost it somewhere.

Judith van Vliet: Industrialization is not always a great. A great thing, and it's. It's the whole playing safe. And I think that's the biggest issue. We play safe, and that is for longevity, and things need to last long, and I get that. But why can't orange last long? Why not? I don't see an issue there personally, but, yeah, it's, I think a lot of people just, you know, they need to up up their game when it comes to especially color. But what makes your heart tick?

Trendstefan: What does make my heart tick? I want to be surprised. I want to be knocked off my feet. The unexpected. Absolutely. I think that's key. And when someone's been thinking, I mean, these are the meetings I have where the young creatives, this is what I see when I go to Eindhoven or to the younger designers in Milan. That's what I see there. I go to all the design schools in Sweden to see what they're doing right now. The whole generation of these younger designers are very conservative as well. I think they're being affected by Covid and they're also being fostered, like, oh, if you want to be a designer, you should be safe. You should do something commercial. So I see more creativity in the fashion industry right now than I do in the design industry. People are experimenting with aesthetics and their looks and whatever. I see more of that in the fashion industry than in the interior design industry. I see some, but they tend to stay small and very, like, local and very small oriented. They don't want to grow, and that's okay. But I wanted to see something else, but, so my heart runs when I see something that sort of, like, changes the way our lifestyle is. Did you go to that soft **** exhibition in Milan? Did you go to that one, Judith? You did. You're nodding your head. You did. I did not. But that's, that's, that's like a newness to it. I didn't go because I didn't have time. But maybe we need to have a new conversation about sensuality. I don't know. Maybe we're too rational right now. So things that sort of, like, makes my mind go, that's what I like. That's what I like.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. You see a little bit more roundness coming through again. I have the feeling there's roundness coming through. And then obviously, you know, what Faye did for root arts. You know that already. She spoke a lot about sensuality, sexuality as well.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Depending where you are in the world, obviously, where the youth can talk about that. I mean, I think that's very, that's very european driven, but it's interesting. Yeah. The whole being surprised. I have to be honest. It hasn't happened in a while, like.

Trendstefan: No, but that's true, though, especially in Milan. I think that everything was okay. But I mean, very like the most surprising thing in Milan was that people were queuing 6 hours to go to the Gucci exhibition. Why? Why, why do people queue for 6 hours to see six pieces? Why? I don't understand that.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, that's. That's something I don't understand. I don't queue like, I queue Max.

Trendstefan: Now you flash your vip card going like, hello, I'll do this.

Judith van Vliet: The color authority.

Trendstefan: Exactly, exactly.

Judith van Vliet: The name tends to work. Yeah. You don't only do trend research, obviously. You work with your design gallery as well.

Trendstefan: I do, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Super interesting. I mean, what type of design do you display? Talk a little bit about how you research pieces. How does that work?

Trendstefan: So I do have the gallery space, which is now mobile, because there's no money in galleries, sorry to say. I mean, all these listeners is thinking, they're going like, oh, I want to open a design gallery. Don't. The answer is no. But I think it's fun. I think it's an opportunity for me to meet other people, to work with them closer. I do some exhibitions also with the museums, mainly in Sweden, of course, because I'm based here. And I think that all this sort of like putting things on display is really interesting. I don't know. Again, we're talking about Milan, but that's also something we did recently together. Did you go to Triennale to see the exhibition that Inga Sempea did? What she did was she made an installation, basically like a living room or like a house, like a flat apartment. And you could walk in between her things and touch it. And I think sometimes we put design on pedestal and what she did was taking it so like, oh, no, you can sit on the sofa. No, no, no, you can touch the lamp. That's okay. No, no, you can take. You can look at the bookshelf. You can take out the book if you want to, out of the bookshelf. And I think that's also design. Sometimes we forget that these are things that we actually should have in our surroundings. And if I can't touch it, what use it is it? So that was a good exhibition. I mean, so I like exhibitions. I do like exhibitions. It's also part of my, my world. And there are live with. I try to promote fairly young designers, un established designers, not only exclusively, but I try to do that because also, again, I want to find the new talents. I want to think, but find out whether they are thinking about how are they doing things. So that's a way for me to understand this generation. And how that's changing.

Judith van Vliet: And you get inspired by a new way of thinking as well. It changes. I mean, that's the whole me also being part of color marketing group. It's the talking to people. It's the community. It is. Sometimes you feel you're very, you know, going one directed because you are freelancer and you are in one market. It's good to just talk to other people. I think that's what I teach some of my students. Like, it's the first thing. Talk to people you don't know.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Scary. Like, people are like, oh, but yeah, yeah, just ask and ask the five whys. Also what I teach, if the five won't work, go to the ten. If you want to find a solution to things, you know, it's in a very small thing sometimes.

Trendstefan: Yeah. I also do, like, my interviews with basically everyone. And I think it's also important to listen to that. I mean, I mean, talking to big brand names, it's not necessarily interesting. They're just trying to answer the correct answer. So they're very boring from an interview perspective, but rather talk to other people I talk to. As I said, I go to all these fairs that people are inviting me to, and I also talk to all these people who I come across. I'm constantly talking, as you realize. So I'm like, so why? Why are you doing this? How, what are you going next? I mean, these are like, yeah. Understanding the world we're in.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. It's curiosity, which is the first thing that you should have. Yeah. You ever get tired of researching? You never get tired of the new. You just don't want to sometimes sit in a black room and not think and not observe the world.

Trendstefan: Well, the thing is, like, I need to differ trends from myself. So it's an understand. People are very often misunderstanding the concept. And especially media, like tv channels or something else would come up to me and say, like, oh, can we not follow you when you start a trend? And I'm like, but that's not what I do. I'm trying to analyze why we're doing things. I'm not starting something. I'm not a trendsetter. I'm a side viewer. I'm looking for a side and trying to. Yeah, yeah. So I'm getting tired. No, because I want to understand our world. No, I don't get tired. No. I can get frustrated, but not tired. I get frustrated because I don't understand Orlando. Things are too slow or something like. And also, sometimes when I'm wrong, it just like, enormous bathing. But I said frogs were going to be in, but they're not. And then I'm frustrated. Why did not frogs happen? Yeah, the animal, the animal frogs, for instance. Yeah. Mushrooms happened like a year or two ago. And then I was thinking, I'm like, what's coming after the mushrooms? Maybe it should be frogs. Yeah, let's say frogs. And it wasn't. There are no frogs out there.

Judith van Vliet: That's good to acknowledge because everybody's very focused on where are we going? Future trends, future colors. But nobody really checks in with.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Not even with themselves, whether they like. And also it's okay. And it's normal to be wrong because nobody has this glass bowl.

Trendstefan: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: And also it's not mathematics. There's no certainty. Life is. People change all the time. So that's why trends and color change all the time, because people change.

Trendstefan: Yeah, I know a trend analyst as we are, it's an analytical perspective. And that's my analysis, that's my thinking. That's what I think. And therefore, to me it's very, I'm very happy that I'm on my own. I don't have a big brand behind myself. Well, I have the transdevant brand, but I don't have like a company behind me. It's not McDonald's. I'm just me, myself. So it's my thinking as well. So when I am on stage, I'm giving the audience my perspective of what I see. We're going, and I have these sort of like, resources. I do these 30 plus fairs per year. I do these statistical resources. I do these interviews, and these are my tools to be able to do something clearly. And of course there's a selection. We only have, like a certain amount of time. So I cannot talk about everything that's happening out there and where we're going. But on a limited space, this is where we are and this is, these are the most important things where we're going to. That's what I do.

Judith van Vliet: And then as the designers and the brands to take and pick, they really think fits their brand and try it out.

Trendstefan: Yeah, I want to move into that more for the future. I want to be more like, I want people to be feeling that they should not sit in the chair and say yes, but rather yes, and, and take the information I say and use it from their perspective. So when I say that checkered patterns are coming or leopard patterns are coming, they should take this information. I would say like, okay, so many percent of checkered patterns are increasing. More and more brands are doing checkered patterns. This and this design is doing checkered patterns. And then a brand or designer should say, like, okay, but I will do it from my perspective, that's what I want to give them. So they should not follow but rather be inspired.

Judith van Vliet: No, I think that's true. There is too much copy pasting happening. Yeah, and that's not good for the world. I mean, I hate traveling the world and seeing the same things because that's not why I travel. Friend Stefan, thank you so much for this talk and for sharing your knowledge with with color authority podcast.

Trendstefan: Thank you for having me. It was lovely seeing you again, and I'll see you soon. We're going to have our secret meeting after summer, you and I. Secret meeting? Don't tell anyone. Now.

Judith van Vliet: I hope you enjoyed this last episode before the summer. What do you mean summer? Yes. I'm not taking my summer holidays in August. I'll be taking my summer holidays in September. So this was the last episode for now. We'll see each other back in October. And in the meantime, make sure you rate the call authority podcast and let us know your feedback on what you enjoyed most. So happy August, happy September, and we'll speak back in October.