S6E03 Color Down Under with Bree Banfield

Australian Bree Banfield shares with us her passion for color surprises in interiors, how color comes intuitively to her and how the light down under changes the color game completely. Listen to our conversation and receive valuable insights to the color selection process for home interiors. 

With an extensive career spanning 30 years, Bree Banfield is an Interior Designer renowned for her expertise in trend forecasting and styling. A maestro in color, Bree approaches each project with a commitment to creating aesthetically appealing and emotionally rich spaces. Her projects, marked by surprises in color, pattern play, and innovative use of scale, reflect a passion for gently pushing boundaries and intuitively understanding her clients' brief. Beyond her role as an Interior Designer, she stands as a visionary trend forecaster, shaping the contemporary landscape of Australian interiors with her forward-thinking aesthetic.

Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Good evening everyone and welcome back to the Color Authority. Today I'm going to be speaking to Bree Banfield. She has an extensive career spanning 30 years as an interior designer. Renowned for her expertise in trend forecasting and styling.

She's a maestro in color as Bree approaches every project with a commitment to creating aesthetically appealing and emotionally rich spaces. Her projects are marked by surprises in color, pattern play and innovative use of skill.

They reflect a passion for gently pushing boundaries and intuitively understanding her clients. Brief beyond her role as an interior designer, she stands as a visionary trend forecaster, shaping the contemporary landscape of Australian interiors with her forward thinking aesthetic.

Good evening, Bree. It's evening for you, it's morning for me. Because you're an Australia.

Bree Banfield: Thank you so much for having me, Judith. It's been a long time coming and sorry that it's taken so long for me to actually be here, but I'm so happy to be here now.

And it is evening wear daylight savings though, so it's just I probably look a little bit like I'm in the dark, but it is still a little bit light outside here in Australia at about 7:30pm yeah, thank you.

Judith van Vliet: I'm, you know, I insist because I just wanted you on the podcast and I knew the moment would come and obviously we see each other once a year in Milan, but I'm happy to do finally.

Bree Banfield: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Judith van Vliet: I have that same question since I think the start of the podcast and I'm going to ask you obviously that very same question and that is what is color for you, Bri?

Bree Banfield: No, I love this question actually, because when I first read it, I've obviously listened to the podcast. I'm like, people have such great insight into this, what is going to be my big thing.

But I think if I have to be really authentic about it, for me color is like visual emotion. So, you know, we have feelings inside of us and we're able to recognize those and maybe use language to describe them.

I find color is like the visual version of that. So. And I know it's different for everybody as to like which colors represent which emotions. We do know obviously there's some statistics about which ones tend to be, you know, provoking particular emotions.

But that for me is kind of what color is. So when I'm in a space, if it's devoid of color, I feel like it's almost devoid of emotion as well.

Like or there's a potential negative emotion or just a not you're not sure how to feel when, when there is Color, for me, that evokes particular feelings, whether they're nostalgic or,

you know, happy or whether it's kind of setting the scene for something a little bit more serious or whatever it is. So I think that's my. That's my take on what color is.

Color is visual emotion.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it is certainly visual. And we live in a highly visual world. I mean, we've talked about this already a few times. But what I love about your bio and how you present yourself, and also, I think it's very visible in the work that you do.

You say that your designs evoke surprise, especially when it comes to color. But color, of course, if you've done that once, how can you continue to use color as a surprise effect?

Like, how. How do you make that work?

Bree Banfield: It's interesting, isn't it? Because I feel like maybe even some things I do aren't surprising to me, but might be particularly surprising to someone else who hasn't seen that before. So it could be literally just the combination of colors.

But I find in interiors, what tends to be surprising is how you use them. So it could be the proportion or where it's used. There's a lot of tradition around color and interiors.

You know, in Australia, we have a lot of white spaces still, which is changing a lot. But when color is used, often you'll have, oh, we'll keep the doors white.

We'll keep the skirting boards or the trims white. We'll keep the ceiling white. So when you put color on the ceiling or color on a. On a door trim or even just a door, people are like, whoa, okay, that looks amazing.

And we didn't know that that would look so good.

So I guess it's those little. I guess maybe I'll run out of ideas and it'll stop being surprising. I don't know.

Judith van Vliet: You've been doing this for many years, so it's. It's obvious that, you know, there's. There's something that in color that keeps you going. You also travel a lot. So I think also what you do particularly well is obviously, you travel a lot and you take that bit of information and you apply it differently.

Because, of course, the Australian market is different than. I mean, we talked about your trip to Vietnam. We talked about, obviously, how we see each other sometimes here in Europe and Milan.

How different is the Australian market? When you look at sometimes something that you see abroad and you want to bring it into Australian interior colors and design, how do you have to tweak that?

Because it is a Different market. Although it is distant from Europe.

Bree Banfield: It does, I find over the years, you know, being involved in forecasting,

oh, Gosh, probably over 20 years now,

I did initially do a lot of trips to Amera, and I was working with a company that believed that's where we were getting our trends from. And I recognized very quickly the American market tends to.

Or did. I don't look at it a lot now, to be honest, but sits kind of by itself and doesn't. It just does its own thing. And Australia was much more connected to, I would say, the UK and the European market than the American market.

And so I started to recognize that and push for a bit of a shift in our research at the time.

But Australia is.

We. We like to take on new things. We're definitely a little bit adventurous. However, there's a. Just a kind of a conservative undertone to a lot of the things. And so it can take a little bit longer for things to, I guess, take root.

And. And being a very small market as well, that definitely affects what kind of takes, I don't know,

direction here. And,

and there's not a lot of micro trends because we can't kind of afford to have them with such a small market.

So I find that at the moment, the European trends definitely are the ones that tend to filter through. And whether that's because that's the brands that we have here as well, overseas brands, and what's coming into Australia,

but also it's our way of life too. And I feel like, actually it was interesting. I had some conversations last year in Milan with some of the big brands, Martini and Co, for instance, where they were talking a lot about outdoors and how this, how important this was.

And Australians have been talking about that for a really long time because it's part of the live. Our climate is obviously quite forgiving in terms of being able to spend more time outdoors than potentially in Europe, where you kind of probably pack everything up for at least half of the year and put it away and.

And don't venture out. We will probably spend a lot more time connected to that. So it was interesting to see almost like a reverse effect where they were looking towards the extreme climate in Australia to see what was the best type of furniture to have there and what, you know,

lasted and all of those sort of things. But typically that doesn't happen and we tend to inherit whatever's been created for a completely different market.

So it is a real skill here. I think if you are working for a furniture company or anybody in interiors to Decide what you bring in to Australia and what's going to work here because there's a lens on that.

Not everything does. There's things that are a little bit more micro in Europe that just don't take off here. There's definitely colors that I would say we tend to not grab onto.

Like whenever I can see,

I say, like a pretty clear orange is becoming a bit of a trend. I know in Australia it will be a completely different tone here. We don't take well to that, that type of color and historically have never, and I will, you know, I'll be proven wrong if it changes,

but I've never seen that a strong trend color here.

Judith van Vliet: Why is.

Bree Banfield: I think it's got a lot to do with our light. I, I, you know, if we want to get technical, I do think that we prefer slightly muddier colors here. They just work better.

We have a much clearer light than Europe too. So those bright, clean colors in Europe are okay. When you put them here, they're almost a bit overwhelming. So we want everything just to be dialed back ever so slightly.

So if you, if I know there's oranges kind of a direction here, it will be terracotta and clay. You know, it'll be a muddier version. We'll kind of pull it back and it'll be in much smaller proportions for instance, as well.

Yeah, that's,

yeah, I probably haven't captured that in a really good sound bite of what difference is. But yeah, I think Australians are also very.

We do want to be different. We want to explore things. We are adventurous.

I think the mass market can be slightly more conservative. So I'd say from the design point of view, we definitely are trying to lead the way. And I think Australian designers have really made a mark all over the world now.

And, you know, I can probably mention Australian designers and people go, oh, yes, I've heard of them. Whereas maybe in the past that wasn't so much the case. So I do think we really want to push those boundaries here.

But there are definitely limitations in the mass market. So I guess there's two different ways to look at it.

Judith van Vliet: I always talk about light and how light influences because I think a lot of people what happens in trend forecasting, and I think this is sometimes the big issue in trend forecasting, as you know, is that people don't take into account their culture.

They're indeed that certain colors just don't work. But also the light and I think, I think the light, what you just mentioned is so interesting. So meaning that if you would see a color palette that perhaps works well in a bluer light, like North Europe.

You'd have to tone that down in saturation levels in Australia, then.

Bree Banfield: Yeah, absolutely. I think that we also like quite harmonious color schemes traditionally. I would say culturally, here it's much harder to put a finger on it. We are a very multicultural country.

So, you know, we. Whereas you can talk about Asia and particular colors and their meanings, I think in Australia that. That's quite different for everybody. So it's. It's a bit harder to kind of put a definite finger on.

Well, these things don't work or these things mean this, so they won't work or they will.

It's a. I guess I find it a lot more intuitive here in terms of what I just instinctively know won't quite work here or won't have the longevity perhaps it has somewhere else.

But it definitely. I think the light is the first factor here. Absolutely and always has been in terms of the difference in color. But culturally,

yeah, I think maybe the cultural difference for us is that we are multicultural,

so we can't. We're sort of, you know, we need to make sure that we're not polarizing in terms of a particular type of person that lives in Australia, but also making sure that, you know, it works across the board.

So I guess my. My take on it as a very general look on Australian interiors is that we do like quite harmonious spaces, and we do like them to connect to the outdoors.

So the slightly muddier colors,

definitely more in terms of an undertone,

probably work better here than the very clean ones. And the clean ones do, but maybe in much smaller amounts. I would say that's a very generalized view.

Judith van Vliet: How does. Because obviously when talk. People talk about Australia and also New Zealand, you know, you.

Bree Banfield: You.

Judith van Vliet: You fall under that, you know, name of Asia Pacific. How does Australia relate interior wise, color wise to Asia? It's like people say, oh, that's a European column. Like, you mean Dutch, Spanish, Italian.

Like, what do you mean? And that's the same for Asia Pacific. But how does Australia and your market relate to countries like Japan and then completely different Korea, China. I mean, China is having a big influence generally on the world.

How is influencing? Because they're closer than Europe.

Bree Banfield: I know, but I think that there's an aspiration factor there. I think that particularly in Australia,

I guess the rise of European design in terms of being quite aspirational. And when I say European, I am probably being quite specific to, you know, the gathering of people in Milan because That's something I see every year and obviously it's representative of a lot of different cultures, but you do tend to pick up a particular directions there when you're taking it all in over the week and you can kind of see what's happening.

But I do think we're all kind of connected in the same way. I could be very broad in saying Australia is probably more likely to take the lead in trends from Europe, say, rather than America.

But I think over the years we're all so connected that when I, when I'm looking at trends, one of the most fascinating things about them is there can be a designer working in China, in New Zealand, in Los Angeles,

in Milan, in Melbourne, and you get them all together at somewhere like Milan Design Week. They're presenting whatever they've been working on. None of them have spoken to each other, and yet there's threads that join all of those things together.

So for me, the world is becoming much more global, you know, all the time. We're way more connected than what we were when I probably started first trend forecasting. And now maybe I need to re examine all of my things about, you know, where, where trends come from.

For Australia, maybe it has shifted a bit and I'm not even particularly aware of it. But for me, that's the whole, I guess, fascination and in intrigue in trends is how people are coming up with a similar idea.

You know, I've seen it happen with not just color, but with treatment of a particular material or how something's dyed or how they created a particular look and why they looked at, you know, that particular chemical or natural process and, and seeing that happen, you know, across different places that have obviously different cultural influences.

But we are just so much more connected now that those threads are happening. And it happened anyway. But I think they're just much more common now. So maybe I'm totally lost.

Whatever. The question you was, was how you.

Judith van Vliet: Were related to Asia. Yeah.

Bree Banfield: Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yes. So in terms of Asia,

I don't think we necessarily particularly look to it to see what's coming,

you know, specifically, I think it's taken into account,

but maybe a similar influence comes to Asia from other countries.

So I don't know. And they're also culturally different. It's a small area. Right. But it's like you said, when people talk about Europe,

you think about it and say, well, what do you mean, which particular part of Europe? I guess it's the same thing. If you say Asia Pacific, I'll be, oh, we like, oh, Whereabouts.

Because I feel like Australia is different to New Zealand. And we see that, you know, working with Dulux, and Dulux has Dulux New Zealand as well.

And knowing that what happens here mostly translates. But they're colors that are the most popular are not necessarily the same ones that are the most popular in Australia.

And it is cultural. It is very much connected to their landscape and their country as to why it's different.

So I guess values and morals always place that, you know, importance on why a particular color does well and doesn't. It's.

So that's going to change still within Asia Pacific from one country to the other. How Australia sits. I think I said already it's very multicultural, and I think it's probably one of the most multicultural countries within Asia Pacific, I guess.

So we're going to get probably a much broader influence than maybe China would, for instance, because they have probably much stronger culture,

whereas Australia's cultures borrowed as well as inherent. Like, there's just such a big mix there. So I guess that's the way I'd kind of see it.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, I think that's the beauty of color. You can never quite nail it for anybody because there is the most.

It's culture. It's, it's. It's light, so it's, it's. It's interesting. I think the key word here, and also that's part of your work, is playfulness. Right. So your designs are colorful.

They're playful. You always try to, you know, sometimes I feel there are also quite bold choices and combinations that you make. I guess that's part of your surprise factor. Can you walk us a little bit through on how you make those choices?

What factors do you really prioritize when you're selecting colors or a color palette?

Bree Banfield: Yeah, I guess it starts with who I'm doing it for. So I do private work for people that are going to live in those homes. So it's. We'll start with them.

How do they live? What do they love?

Because there'd be nothing worse than someone creating an interior for you full of colors that you really despised.

And then the same thing goes, I guess, for a brand in a different way. They may not have love and hate of particular colors, but there'll be, I guess, a goal or an objective in.

In those combinations.

So it may be, oh, we really want this to resonate with, you know,

mass consumer in Australia. So you need to take that into account. We really want this to represent how biophilic interiors have really taken off. So there'll be a brief, I guess, that I have to address.

And that's first and foremost, whether it's private or brand. And then the second thing would be,

I think I am very conscious of colors working together, let's say, particularly in a home as you travel through it. And that can be quite tricky. If you're going to use bold color or strong color or saturated color, it's really easy.

If you're going to go, okay, we're going to do white and a little bit of beige and a little bit of neutral because that's much easier to kind of make work as you walk through a space.

And in Australia, we have a lot of open plan homes. So you're going to have potentially like an entry and then at some point it's going to open up to multiple rooms that all connect.

So if I'm going to be using color there, I've either got to use one that works across all of these spaces or how do I transition them? And that's usually the challenge is the transition of color through a space.

So that'd be the secondary things. So, you know, you can't just go and choose a whole heap of surprising bold color and make it change from one space to the other without any kind of rhyme or reason or connection.

I think connection and those little details are what makes a space feel,

I guess, coherent and connects to the owner of the space too, or how you live.

So, yeah, there's multiple factors. You know, if I want to boil it down to a couple of things in terms of when a. When a client doesn't come to me and say,

we really love XX and X, and a lot of them do really struggle with this. They might be drawn to particular things, but not really know what colors they like.

But they know they want color in their home. You know, I'll look to their wardrobe. Okay, what have you got going on in here? Is there particular? Maybe it's not the thing you wear every day.

Maybe it's the accessories that you love. Maybe it's that I find very inspiring in terms of, you know, artists have a such an amazing eye to bring color together. And so you can sometimes find art in a home, existing art, where you can kind of go, okay, I can see how we can draw these colors out and bring them into the home.

And you loved that artwork because you were drawn to it. And often color is the reason. So, yeah, I guess it's digging down and finding the connections of whether it's the brand or the homeowner, what they connect back to color.

Because I think that in the end, if you don't, you can do whatever you like. And. And even if it looks beautiful, if there's no connection to the person who lives there and enjoys it every day, then it hasn't really been successful.

Judith van Vliet: So, y. Yeah, you may like it, and it will look amazing in your portfolio, but if your client is not happy, it makes no sense. Right?

Bree Banfield: Yeah. And actually, that really would kind of upsets me. Like, I. I know sometimes you can get a great shot, but even if I look at that shot in my portfolio, I'm always going to remember that the client was like, just not.

I just don't really love it. Like, I want them to. I want them to be. Yeah. I want that emotion to come from the color. I want them to walk into a space and feel the way they want it to feel, whether it's, you know, the bedroom or the living room or the kitchen.

And it. And it evokes some kind of connection. So that is always the ultimate goal, I think.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Talking about not, you know, either not getting it quite right or perhaps not having a client who's particularly pleased. What are common mistakes people make when choosing colors for their homes?

And how can. Obviously they can be avoided, but I think it happens a lot more than we think.

Bree Banfield: Yeah. Oh, 100%. My work with Dulux over the years has probably given me many examples, and I think the most common would be what you've already touched on, and that's light.

So someone will be in a well lit fluorescent warehouse looking at color tips.

Think whites and beiges are probably whites and neutrals, the hardest colors to choose. And people think they're the easiest,

so they make the mistake of walking in and going, well, that looks like kind of the cleanest white or whatever it is that however they might describe it, the whitest white.

That'll work. And then they come and paint it and go, why does it look blue?

Why does it look gray? Or whatever it is? And it's usually the light.

So, you know, I guess the way to avoid that in any. Whether it's paint or fabric or floorboards, even carpet rugs, is literally just to make sure you site it in the space you're putting it in, which is not always possible, but usually you can, or have an expert kind of at least understand what the light's going to be like in that space.

So you can avoid painting a whole room a color and particularly neutrals, because they have an undertone that not everybody recognizes, you know, you know, a cooler undertone in a neutral, can you think it's going to be this warm space and then you paint it, and that's just not anything like I thought it was going to be.

And it happens all the time. And gray is coming to that too. I think the stronger the color is, probably the more likely actually, you're not going to make a mistake because it's.

It's kind of stronger and you can kind of see what it's going to do. And it might shift a little bit in. In the light, but those more nuanced colors shift enough that you realize it doesn't match anything else in the room or it makes everything else look pink.

Pink undertones as well. That's always a big one with neutrals. People don't realize, and they'll paint something that they say is, it's neutral, and then they paint and go, why does it look pink?

Like so. Yeah. Understanding that I think is. Is tricky.

Get good advice or, you know, look it up. But those are the biggest mistakes I think I see is color choice without checking the light. Second one would be proportions.

Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Oh, proportion. So no, talk to me about proportions, because I think people don't get that either. And that's why a lot of people are afraid of color, because they won't do color.

I'm like, you can do color. Just it's about proportion. So it's not overwhelming.

Bree Banfield: Yes.

I think people could get that wrong quite easily, too. And maybe that's what's. What's scary is they sort of just said they go, well, if I just pick a white or a neutral,

I know it's going to be fun and I'll just paint it. And then they don't necessarily get that right,

but then they introduce something that should be maybe a small amount of color, you know, in a big way. It could be even a doona cover or, you know, a throw or something that's just overpowering.

So really have to take into account the light and the other colors and materials in a space when you introduce any kind of color, because color can take over. It can be overwhelming, you know, and I've already.

I've already said that I think it evokes emotions, so it can actually make you probably quite overwhelmed if the proportions are wrong. I don't know about how you get it right.

Maybe you've really got to just do a little bit more work before you dive into it and kind of have almost the. The mood board and the proportions in front of you and make sure it.

It feels right when you look at it. I think a lot of proportional color is quite instinctive.

So it can be hard if you don't really know how that works.

Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Well, there's the rules, you know, that we were all taught when we, when we studied about color and, and color and design. But I think it's very right what you say most of the time is intuition and just trying it out.

You know, don't buy the big sofa for 20,000 before you're actually sure about the color of your thing. But try to work already with mood boards in the light in the space you're going to be designing for.

I just bought a light as well, so that I have, I have Australian light. I've got light for, you know, most parts of the world. Kelvin.

Bree Banfield: Yep.

Judith van Vliet: That the light entails. So it's, that's important, you know, light but proportions.

Bree Banfield: I always find that fascinating.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Bree Banfield: Because I've worked in commercial color as, as you have too due to having those different lights and watching the change between color as you switch the lights. But it's like quite fascinating how much it can sometimes change and I think most people would actually be quite shocked by that when they actually see it happen.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Bree Banfield: I think obviously understanding the basics, something like the color wheel will really help you when you're putting together a color scheme and, and in proportions as well. But I do think the really good stuff comes from intuition,

not just technical. There. Yeah. There just has to be a lens on it. Otherwise you know, everyone can do it. Right. You can't just sort of go these are the rules.

And there are rules because color is technical.

But there's, there's an emotional aspect I think to color that is also can't be like necessarily taught in the same way as technical color. I don't know. I can be challenged on that.

Judith van Vliet: It's funny how we are. Even when you work on your LinkedIn profile, you work on your portfolio, you put down your skills, Right. Creative skills, writing skills.

We never put down our intuitive skills. It's just funny, I just now there's no intuition barometer, you know, in education.

Bree Banfield: Yeah. And it's actually think it's. These are. Intuition is probably the thing that draws you to particular careers. Right. Like you know that you're, you really get that thing and that's why you want to work in that area.

But you can't maybe, I mean maybe if someone examined you and pulled apart all of your personality and said, well it's because you're an empath and *** you can. But most people It's.

There's something there that draws you to something,

or there's just things that you know are right and wrong.

And it is a lot. Exactly what you said. It's experience as well. It's seeing things over a period of time and learning it inherently, like, without really trying to learn it, it's just imprinted on you.

And so, you know,

what works and doesn't work. So there's definitely that.

Judith van Vliet: Talking about experience and we talked about existing elements. You know, hardly do you ever do a home that's, you know, double Agassa white, and you've got a clean slate. That hardly ever happens.

There's flooring. There's perhaps furniture that they're not willing to change. It all impacts color choices. How can you. How can you pick those color choices then, correctly in harmonizing? Because I think that sometimes there's a lot going on in a space.

And how are you going to. Then put in color? Because as you said, color can also be overwhelming.

Bree Banfield: Yeah. I think if you're doing it on your own,

just start. Start small is always what we recommend, so it could be okay. I. I have a space.

It's fairly neutral. It's not really doing anything for me. I'm not finding it has character. It's. Or I'm not connecting to it, and color is the way that I might be able to create that connection or create that character.

I think it's starting with smaller things. I always like art as a first point of reference, because I find also art is quite emotional and quite personal. So if there's particular pieces you're drawn to that you can bring into that space,

and then you can draw on those to bring more color in through accessories.

Small stuff, cushions, throws, you know, materials,

little bits of decor, even flowers, for instance. And then see how you feel with it and see what response you get from that. And then you'll know whether that's made you feel better.

I feel so much more happier now that I have those three cushions or whatever it is, or even that bunch of flowers. I think that's when you know that color is supposed to be in your life, is you kind of have that, oh, that makes me feel so much happier,

or whatever it is, or karma, which is also a really important thing.

So, yeah, small amounts. I mean, if we're talking paint, we always say, look, paint a door, paint a chair, paint a piece of furniture before you paint a whole room, and just see how you feel that.

Let it sit.

You get more adventurous, you get more confidence. Right. The more you test things out. So it is about confidence. I think with color we've seen such a big movement, I would say globally in terms of, and I would say also probably particularly in Australia with such a, a culture of white homes or mutual homes,

that we've seen such a big movement towards color. And I think it's just from gaining confidence. And that confidence has probably come from seeing color used a lot more social media, the Internet,

more examples of it. Probably a little bit more of a focus on, I guess, trends in a way, not fads, more like long lasting trends and why they're exist and then having those examples and kind of seeing it.

Whereas before when the Internet didn't exist, it'd probably take quite a bit more convincing to say, like, I think you should paint this whole room, you know, turquoise or whatever it is.

Now you can probably pull up five examples of how well that works in a space. And so you're able to convince somebody because they can go, yeah, actually no, I really like that and I can see how it works.

So the visuals that we've been able to kind of create over time have created more confidence in just the use of color in spaces. So. But if you don't have the confidence and you're still not getting it from that.

Yeah, just start small and build from that.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. I always advise people to go wild in their bathroom and then see what happens.

Bree Banfield: Yes. You know, or even the bedroom. Right. Like where it's your private space. So. Because people do worry about what other people think, of course, that that's inevitable. So if you're going to do it in the entry or the living room or where someone's walking and going, why did you do this?

At least you can kind of try it out in the spaces that only you enjoy. Yeah, Bathrooms, powder rooms are always good, you know, like the small, the small space where people tend to go, like, I can use the wildest wallpaper in here.

That's a really common thing that people tend to do. Yeah. Bathroom's a good idea though. I like that.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, exactly. I think that's also something that you're starting to see. Just like you said, there's more color use online. I do think there's a lot of also emerging trends online and it seems like we're moving away from the micro.

And as you said, Australia, you can't really do macro either because it's just the market is just smaller and it's not that quick moving. I think there's so many trends coming up and up and up and Also the many color trends, I would go to Maison Object and then I'll be in Milan.

And it seems the color trends again have shifted.

So it's getting more difficult, I think, also. But what are like color trends or emerging color trends that you're seeing that you really are excited about?

Bree Banfield: I don't know about excited about because I think, actually I think having said all of that about the movement towards more color,

I think we're shifting back a little bit at the moment.

I think that we tend to. There's a lot going on in the world. We won't get into all the different things. Everyone has something different that they're focusing on. And I don't think all of it's positive in terms of change.

I love change, personally. I think generally it's a good thing. But I think there's a lot of uncertainty at the moment. Whether it's financial,

political.

I think that that tends to make us.

I guess depending on who you are, you might go in two directions. And this is very kind of cliche and typical, but, you know, at a very top level view of it, a lot of us will go to ground and look for much more calming colors.

Grounding colors.

Safe we want. Safe we want. I don't know, we don't want to invest in something because we're not sure about what's happening this year financially. So people tend to pull color back a little bit in that instance.

So I think we started to see a little bit of it last year and.

And I think we'll probably see a bit more on the flip side of that. So I'm talking about, you know, the move back to neutrals. I don't think it's white.

I think it's still really warm,

cozy. The hues, which is still beautiful and it's still color, but we're going a little bit safer. Whereas I think the flip side tends to be that people also just really want joy in their life when they're faced with so much uncertainty.

So there will also be people who kind of go, okay, no, I want fun. I don't want to feel safe. I want to feel like something lifts me up and, and makes me feel happy when I'm at home.

That's what I want from my space. So I think it kind of, you know, if I'm going to really simplify it because, you know, it's way more complicated than that.

There's kind of the two directions that, that people tend to go when there's that kind of underlying uncertainty in a kind of global sense. So, yeah, they're the probably. I think they're the things that will start to happen.

And.

And I think the other thing is probably authenticity. I know that word gets used so much, and I actually really love that word. You know, when you get sick of it,

especially when you have to talk trends and describe things, it's like tactility. I love the word tactility, but if I have to say it again five times to try and describe something, I need more words for that.

But authenticity is one of those words, too, where I do think that's really important to people as well. I think there's. I think that obviously ties back into uncertainty, but it also ties into, you know, brands being authentic, people being authentic.

And then for me, that translates into interiors being authentic. So they tend to probably be a lot more eclectic and personal and layered in terms of it's not all new.

There's pieces from your past that represent you. And so color becomes a lot more important, I think, too, in authenticity, because you want things that connect to you and the way you live.

So, yeah, they're kind of the big overarching things I kind of see happening right now without kind of getting into the really nitty gritty of how that exactly looks in a space.

Judith van Vliet: Do you use it already?

Bree Banfield: I do a little, yeah. And it's definitely something that I've. I'm very fascinated by and a little bit torn about because I think that, you know,

what AI is capable of is amazing and could change our lives as, you know, humans in the world for good or bad. And unfortunately, I feel like that does come down to who is wielding it in our everyday lives.

It can definitely make a difference, but there's an argument against that in terms of sustainability as well. There's a lot more information coming out now about, you know, every time we use ChatGPT, for instance, to craft an email,

how much water that's using to cool the servers, and, you know, like, so there's a lot of that sort of stuff. Whereas, you know, when you're just in your office and going, this is just much easier if I do it like this, you're not really thinking about what's happening there.

So it's maybe just another environmental crisis being created.

But, you know, AI has the possibilities of actually solving so many problems for us if it's, you know, used the right way. But what I was going to say about it in terms of, I guess, color and aesthetics is I think when we started to first see a lot of AI generated imagery that affected color and how it was used even particularly probably in brands and products and things like that.

And it was a lot sort of cleaner and, you know, had a.

I guess a more fake look about it is probably a good way to put it, which kind of related back to that. But now I think we're seeing the flip side where we kind of like, we're a bit sick of the AI generated perfection and we want the imperfection and the authenticity.

So that's kind of when that. So it comes back as a backlash against it.

Judith van Vliet: When I also.

Bree Banfield: What's your take on AI?

Judith van Vliet: Well, I'm. I still won't let it pick my colors. Like, I would still. No.

Bree Banfield: Oh, gosh, no. I would never let it do that.

Judith van Vliet: Because the outcome is just. It always feels like something I've seen before because obviously AI cannot predict. It takes from the past.

So I think, indeed it is useful for information. Although I am also aware of, you know, the big, as you said, the big databases. And it takes so much power, so much more than just a Google search.

So being aware of that is so.

Bree Banfield: Tempting to use it. Right. It's really hard not to.

Well, I think there's two things. Absolutely. People are lazy, and people will get more lazy the more they probably rely on AI to do things for them. Let's face it, however, the flip side of that is a lot of us are so crazy time poor that when we can kind of go like,

okay, this is going to take me two hours to craft this document, but I can dump all of the points in and it'll do it in like, what, a minute?

And all I have to do is quickly read over it and check it and maybe tweak it a bit. So when it starts saving you time, I. That, I think from a.

I guess a business point of view or an everyday point of view, it's very tempting to use it for many things. Right? Yeah, yeah. Or even just ask it random questions.

Judith van Vliet: What I do see is that a lot of messaging and I, you know, LinkedIn allows you now to help, you know, get help from AI Instagram as well. There's so much messaging that starts to look the same.

Bree Banfield: Yes. Oh, you know what else? I mean, we've.

I have my own podcast as well. I probably should mention it because my yes, you should counterpart will kill me if she. If I don't. It's called Design Anatomy, and we did a great episode with Tom Blatchford, who's a photographer in Australia that also creates amazing AI art.

And, you know, in that Discussion. We sort of touch on, you know, how that affects all of the different things and how we use it.

Judith van Vliet: Talking about the future of design, because I think we're talking about the future of design when we talk about AI and how AI influences. How do you envision the role of color in interiors in the next decade or so?

Like, what do you think is really going to be key?

Bree Banfield: Yeah, I think, honestly, I think it continues to be more important,

I guess, you know, really touching back on things, needing to be more authentic. I think we need more connection,

and I think color is a really important way to do that. So I do think that,

you know, even though I just said maybe we're moving slightly back away from it, I mean, I guess sort of more bold, saturated,

confident color, maybe we're pulling back a little bit on it at the moment to feel a little bit safer and. But we still want the warmth and the connection to our spaces, and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.

I think actually we're going to want that more and more. So I do think color is going to play a really important role in that, Whether it is just like, what kind of neutrals or what kind of saturated color.

And I think recognizing how important it is in terms of setting a mood or evoking a response in a space has. Has really. I don't know. People are just very aware of that now.

I don't know why they weren't aware of it before. Maybe it's just a cyclic thing and we're coming back into it. Yeah, same. I guess my view is that it will become more important.

And I do remember the point I was trying to make before about AI. Now,

go ahead. What I was going to say, what I was going to say about, you know, when you talked about how it's. It's obviously it scrapes the Internet and what it has access to to learn.

And so it tends to be more historical and less predictive. The other thing it is. Is quite.

I guess so it's learning from us. And it becomes very obvious how skewed a lot of our views are. Because, you know, you can put in something like generate an image of parents cleaning the house.

It's always a woman. Generate an image of scientists, they're always men. So, like, it's. You know, I feel like there's. I had an example where I, you know, you talked about how we can now use AI in Instagram and all of those apps.

You have that option, and they really seem to be like, pushing that as well. I noticed Today I had WhatsApp suddenly saying, it's got meta AI and I'm like going, I don't even need this.

I'm just chatting to my friends. What do I need AI for? Hopefully I can know what to say. But you could generate like a background to a, you know, a group chat.

And I have a group chat with some gorgeous girlfriends and I tried to generate like a, you know, a picture of what would kind of be us and put in a description of us and where, you know, women of a certain age.

And it kept showing me really old women. And I'm like, but I don't look like that.

Or I'd go, no, that's not quite right. And then suddenly young women. So I'm like going where there was like this big gap and I could not get it to hit this kind of middle, like, you know, 50 and 50 looks like it was 70.

So if I said to AI, 50 year old women, they showed me like short gray hair, I'm like, that's not what 50 year old women look like.

Judith van Vliet: At the moment anymore. No, I mean, I just saw that video of Cher and I'm like, wow.

Bree Banfield: That'S Cher78, isn't she? Yeah. Oh my God, I loved that. She looked amazing and moving around, doing her thing, singing like. Loved it.

Judith van Vliet: That's the future for women as well. Yeah. AI needs to catch up.

Bree Banfield: I think it does.

Judith van Vliet: Brie, thank you so much for being part of the Color Authority podcast. I loved the insights about everything that is coming from down Under. Thank you so much.

Bree Banfield: No problem. Always happy to chat. Truda Tuna that. Thanks for having me.

Judith van Vliet: Thank you for listening to another podcast of the Color Authority. I hope you enjoyed it. Please rate, comment and feedback the show. This is now a beautiful option on most podcast directories.

So let us know what you think and next month we will come back to you with another colorful episode.