S6E07 Color Out of Context with Nieves Contreras

Nieves Contreras talks about what inspires her and how she wants to take design, material and in particular color out of context. She explains how material and processing have become part of the innovative brand Lladrò, what are the challenges for the Spanish design market in the next years and how AI may influence the return to true craftsmanship. 

Graduated in Industrial Design as well as a Master's in Design Management from UPV in Valencia. She has developed a significant part of her professional career in Paris, France, collaborating with product design studios, creating designs and artistic direction for various sectors, from furniture and home appliances to luxury brands and connected objects, at studios such as Marc Berthier, Pascal Mourgue, and particularly eliumstudio, where she worked for 10 years. Simultaneously, she has been active as an independent designer, deeply involved in craftsmanship and its contemporary renewal, creating furniture for Expormim, and as the co-founder and creative director of the handmade ceramic brand sagenceramics (Manises).

Since 2019, she has been the Creative Director of Lladró, a Spanish porcelain company recognized internationally, heading the Creation and Development Department, consisting of a team of 15 people. She is responsible for the creation and implementation of the new creative strategy and the revitalization of the brand through product diversification and a contemporary approach.

Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Foreign. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome back to the Color Authority podcast. Today I'm going to be talking to Nevis Contreras. She graduated in Industrial design, but she also has a Master in Design Management from UPV in Valencia. She has developed a significant part of Professional CURE in Paris, France, collaborating with product design studios, creating designs and artistic directions for various sectors, from furniture to home appliances, sciences to luxury brands, and anything that is connected. Since 2019, she has been the Creative Director of Lladro, a Spanish porcelain company recognized internationally, where she's heading the creation and development department. Good afternoon, Nieves. Welcome to the Color Authority and I'm super excited to talk to you about everything that is color.

Nieves Contreras: Thank you, Judith. I'm very happy to be able to talk with you about this subject that's super interesting. And I know that there will be many, many things that we. We will be able to discuss about.

Judith van Vliet: Ask all my people on the podcast the same question, also about color. And I know you now work with a very colorful brand. I think every time I go to a show or an exhibition, I immediately know which ones are yours. But what is color to you personally?

Nieves Contreras: For me, color is. It's really an experience. I think I've always been interested in how we feel color, how we are surrounded by color. For me, it's like the way. The most beautiful way nature expresses and is telling information about the things that are happening. If the weather is nice, the sky is blue, or if the fruits are okay for eating, then you see the color of the fruits and you realize that they are mature enough to be eaten. Or when you're ill, you see you're pale, and it's like a very interesting way and like, kind of magical also. And I love also how you can connect with true color. I've always been very interested, and I think that the artists I really love the most are those who are working around color and around how color or even installations make you feel. They try to connect to your inner self through color. Like James T. Or Mark Rothko or Anish Kapoor, Olafur Eliason, Carlos Crudier. Those are for me. Yeah. Those who connect with me in the most, like, direct way. So I love installations around light and colors. It's always been fascinating for me.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Did you see the exhibition here in Madrid, Foundation Juan March?

Nieves Contreras: I was looking at that because it finishes now in June, and I was like, I would maybe take a train, just go to the exhibition. I'm sure I've seen many of the works that are exhibited there, because I've Always been around exhibitions, around light, about. About color and light. So I. I think I know many of the pieces, but experiencing them in first way, it's always so nice.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, yeah, it is. I went a few weeks ago and it was really good. So yeah, you should really go talking about color and light and then Carlos. Carlos, of course, with everything that's perception, with color and light. It's. Yeah. A true inspiration. And of course, the more color there is. For some reason we feel very inspired in arts and in design. Yeah, very true. Yes. You studied industrial design. You have been in so many different positions and companies. Now over you are in Ladro. But tell us a little bit about how your journey started with design. Like, why did you want to be in design already as a child?

Nieves Contreras: Well, it started quite soon. I remember when I was 16 years old, our teacher, our fine arts teacher, teacher in high school, took us to the. This exhibition in Valencia about Bauhaus. And I really didn't know about this subject, that this profession of designing things and doing like utilitarian objects, like furniture or daily objects that we use in the kitchen for many different things. And I discovered the school, the Bauhaus movement, the school and all the great designers that had been working, Marcel Breuer and all the big people, artists and the first designers. And I already knew that I wanted to do something about that. So when it came to choose the university, well, I knew already that I wanted to do industrial design. And I was so happy during the studies. And well, by the end of my studies, I had a chance, the opportunity to go to Paris to work. A teacher had a contact there in a design gallery that they were promoting young designers, young French designers. And I had the opportunity to go there for an internship and then getting to know the design world in France. And from there I got engaged in a design studio with Marc Berthier. He was a designer, furniture designer, doing also many things around electronical devices. And he took me into here, his studio. And from there I worked also with Pascal Morgue and got engaged in a small design studio. But they are very oriented through to innovation, electronical devices and many objects that are connected with technology. So I had been always working around design innovation, around many subjects, but also connected with craft machine. Because I've always been interested in materiality, materials and the way of doing things with hands. And I had met during one of my visits in Valencia, when I was already living in Paris, craftsman here, that was working with ceramics. And I fell in love with the process, with the material, with his company, it Was a very small workshop here near Vallenville in Manises. And they were so nice and so passionate about their work and they were doing classical things. So I proposed him to make a new line of work, doing contemporary designs, but using the same material, the same processes, and exploring, seeing what we could do. And it was a great for me because we created a brand. It was called Sachen Ceramics, where I was doing the. The logotype, the creative direction, designing some pieces, inviting some friends, some designer friends to design for us, creating the catalogs, photography, while doing everything. He was my partner, Vicente. He was doing the. All the production and the knowledge of the ceramics. So it was a great experience. We were able also to start selling our products, going to fairs in and doing the booths and connecting with some distributors. But then we weren't lucky because it was 2018, no, 18, 2008, and there was a big crisis here in Valencia. So it was a very small workshop. So he did it to reduce the risk. So we put on hold this project and I continue to work in Paris with the studio within studio and with the other projects. And this was like a very nice experience that stayed there and has been sleeping since then.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it's close to your heart. You know, it's local, it's Valencia. It's also ceramic. So it's really materials that are so typical for also what is being, you know, the craftsman's pain. The typical Spanish craftsmanship as well.

Nieves Contreras: Yes, it was a great experience and so human. It's like, I love this way of working where you're in touch with all the people that are really manipulating the things that are close to the subject and they know so much about things because of all the years they have been working and developing this knowledge.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, exactly. As an industrial designer, you and creative director, you've had different roles. You've worked for big companies, you've worked for smaller studios. What would you say is your. Is your signature? Like, if somebody would see, ah, this is something that has gone through the hands of Nieves Contreras. This is like something you can see this is hers.

Nieves Contreras: Well, that's kind of difficult to know. I know that when I work in a project, I always need to have a connection with something, like maybe something cultural or something from nature. It needs to have a strong concept since the beginning. I need to work around that. And I love taking things out of context. That's something I always love. I use a lot of taking 2D to 3D or the 3D to 2D or things that are from very Ancient cultures, bringing them to now or the opposite. I try to make this cross from even materials, how you use one material, but in another way that other material is being used. So I'm always trying to make this cross connections between things and always. Yeah, finding a story behind that. Because for me it needs to have sense. You need to perceive an object and very quickly see what it's telling you.

Judith van Vliet: Right.

Nieves Contreras: So it's not about something easy, it's not about something that's really like evident. But it needs to, when you know the story that you say, okay, this is something that. That's also. Yeah. Connecting to something that's true to yourself. And I think always I try to make some twists that make some kind of humor or that are like light hearted, that are light. I think also that lightness is one of my main things.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, I think especially with the collections that we see with Ladro, you can clearly see there's a playful aspect, it's fun and it's indeed just like you said, it's bringing things out of context. Because how do you travel a lot? Of course, how do cultural or regional meanings influence the color, for example, that you choose? I mean, it's because it's not only Spanish what you use and what your inspiration is. You use, as you said, ancient cultures, different cultures. How do you use that? And how do you then apply that in a color context as well?

Nieves Contreras: I've always loved traveling and discovering new cultures for me, for many people. But it's really a source of inspiration and it really tells you about how people live their lives. And it's so different from cultures even that now we are very globalized and all the things are almost the same everywhere. You can find the Starbucks in every country and in every small town. But I think that even through light, through nature, that's very specific. In each country, the perception of peoples and the perception of color is changing. And you see that some countries are more into earth tones and more countries are more vivid tones. Like in Mexico you can think profusion of colors because of also the light that they have there. Like in Spain we have like a very strong light, very vivid light. So it brings that you need to have like vivid colors, colors that are very joyful that it goes with the contra, with the culture. And for me, working with color and applying it, it's. Well, it's kind of spontaneous and I would say it's not very. It's something intuitive for me. So it's complicated to explain. But when we work in a project also we try to put the color also since the beginning, because as we are working around the concept, I think it comes already the concept, with the color, with the palette that we are going to work about that. So if we are working, I don't know about collection of tattoos, the colors that are used in tattoos are already there. There's a palette that exists, and if we are already taking that out of context, I don't want to add more information. We will keep the colors, but then if we are, like, trying to take something out of context, then I will take maybe the sculpture, and then I would change totally the color. So it takes this out of context right away. So sometimes the color is really related very closely with the object, and sometimes it's kind of the opposite when you're trying to go to the other side of the concept to apply the colors.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, yeah. Color is very intuitive. In my work, obviously, I have to explain my client why I picked a certain color. But, yeah, color is something that just. I think it's information that when you're thinking and you're designing, it just comes. And then it's just, this is it. This is the color.

Nieves Contreras: I think that it's interesting because it's intuitive, but once it's done, then you. You know why. Yeah, you know, it's. It's amazing because it's like. Yeah, of course. It's like this green because it connects me with this pistachio thing or that's used in this country or in this specific, I don't know, flower that we saw. And we are using this pink because it reminds us of the concept, and it's really linked. But when we are working on that, it's kind of intuitive and very innate. Something that really sprouts.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it's really a spontaneous color. I think color is. And it should be spontaneous. That's why people normally pick the first color that they fell in love with and then go and look at other colors, but they always go back to the first one. Yeah, it's interesting how that works for me.

Nieves Contreras: It's also interesting because when we are working with colors, people that feel colors, you are. We are feeling the same things almost at the same time. And they're like, okay, this is the trend. I say, yeah, I know this is the trend, but we are, like, creating it. It's a feeling. It's a feeling. And the feeling is shared between the people that are feeling it, that are the most sensitive about color. So we can see it in fashion, and they're not trying to. Okay. Which is the Color that's trendy. It's like there's one designer that's thinking about earthy tones because of the return to nature, the roots, traditions. And then many designers, many designers around are feeling the same thing. So then all of a sudden, there's this big trend that arouses because all these people are feeling the same thing at the same moment.

Judith van Vliet: Yep. I think that's why color connects. It's a connection. You know, it's. I always teach everybody that color is a language. So if you speak color, you can speak with many people without, you know, learning or Chinese. Or even if you don't speak Spanish, if you speak color, you can still talk to each other.

Nieves Contreras: Yeah, that's really nice.

Judith van Vliet: What excites you about design? Because you've been working in design for a long time. But so it's as you said, everything is starting to look the same. Globalization. Whether something is particular, Spanish or Chinese, sometimes we can't even see it. But what keeps you still, what makes still your heartbeat faster? Like, what are things that you're saying? Yes, this is, again, something that feels new or innovative.

Nieves Contreras: I love things that are intelligent. I really love when I see something that's very simple but has so much intelligence in the way it's done mechanically because of the simplicity, getting to a solution with the fewest things, that's something that's always, like, astonishing me. Also finding the details that are very well done. Like, I'm always surprised and excited when I see very detailed work, hand work or even mechanical work. But when precision is something also that I love, and materiality, I love the innovation around materials. When I see new materials that are coming up, designers are experimenting around that. Like, now I'm really excited about mycelium. And it's like, what is this? And it's great. And maybe there's something to be done around that. And I think today there's a big challenge also about sustainability and how to find solutions to the problems that we are going to face. And we are facing already around the lack of materials and how we are going to engage in this future with the problems of. Of production and the lack of materials and all the pollution and all these things. So this, then I think that as designers, there's a big, big field of exploration, of innovation, of doing things that are smart and are using less materials and are intelligent and really have sense.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, I fully believe that is true. And it's interesting how people are experimenting and then it will take time. You know, it takes time to adjust and to But I think it's also interesting, especially when you here in Spain, I feel, especially in the craftsmanship, there's a lot happening. And I think also generally Spain is growing, like the design community, design world. It's growing. I think it's growing in importance. Spain generally is very popular currently. I mean, we can see that from obviously, the houses, the prices, the tourism, of course. But what do you think makes Spanish design in that sense? What does make Spanish design so interesting and different, perhaps on an international level? Like, how do you feel that it is different? Is it the craftsmanship? Is it the ceramics, perhaps, or the clay that is being used?

Nieves Contreras: I think more than design itself, it's about the companies that have always been here in Spain. There's a lot of small and medium companies that have been working with so many different materials, small workshops with glass, with ceramics, with wood, with foam, with metals. It's kind of a small country, but with so many varieties that I think this is a richness that we have in the country. So just in one country, you can do whatever you want. It's been changing over the years because of the big companies and the people also producing in China or in other countries that are. That it's cheaper. But there's still some people that have kept this knowledge and they maintain this craftsmanship and this knowledge of the materials. And I think that's something that's very unique in Spain. It's about the honesty and modesty of the people here in Spain. I think that's very important and very interesting. In Spain, people are really honest and modest when they are talking about what they do. It's not about doing out of fuss about any. About nothing. They're really authentic when they say that they can do something. And the good quality also. It's been something that's very well known here in Spain, that there are lots of small workshops that are doing great things in a good way and in a very modest way, and also with joy. I think joy is something that's very characteristic from what's made in Spain.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, I think it's just generally the Spanish have so much joy. It's been now a year and a half that I live in Spain, in Madrid, but I don't know, you guys always smile, you always laugh, you always. There's a lot of optimism from. There's more optimism than where I was born in the Netherlands, and there's more optimism than in Italy as well, where I lived for 14, 15 years. I think the Spanish just. They have a different way of living and I think that's also. That's what you see in the food. You see it in the materials, the artisan as well. The handmade, like you said, the handmade, I think in Spain is just.

Nieves Contreras: Is.

Judith van Vliet: Is beautiful, just like you said. But how, how can the handmade. Because you, you try also with Ladro to connect with artisans, craftsmanship with a smaller workshops, like you said, not just go with big productions. How can you use the handmade and still be innovative? Because a lot of people in their minds, handmade is traditional. But how, how do you think you can use still something that is made small by hand and still make it new?

Nieves Contreras: Yeah, well, for me, innovation, it will come also through this knowledge of the material and this preservation of nature and environment. And for that, I think that craftsmanship has all its interest and it's really this knowledge that will be very useful because we are no longer going to be able to produce and to consume in such big quantities things we've been in these past years using and spoiling the resources in such a way, because they are produced in very huge quantities. So you're not giving value to what you're using. Even you take sip something, well, it's cheap, you throw it away, you don't mind. And that's losing also the sense and the consciousness of things and of where the things come from and all the resources that have been used just to make something. So I think that craftsmanship, it gives this value again to objects. For sure it will be more expensive, but you have to, you know who has been doing that object, you know that there's someone behind that, you know the resources, where they, where they have been taken from. And you're valuing this and this object will. Will be with you for a long time. You're giving value to that. So I think in. In that sense, that's where I think innovation can come from. Craftsmanship, it's like a kind of going back, but with a new vision because we will be able to just change the things. It will be made by craftsmen, but the use will be adapted to what we need today or what we will need tomorrow. So I think in that sense, there are lots of things that can be done with smaller teams. You can use new technologies like 3D printing, you can mix it with craftsmanship, you can mix it with laser cutting, you can mix it maybe with AI. I don't know many possibilities that can be done when there are smaller people working with that. And they are very close. I think also coming back to the territories and doing things that are near to you, that are produced really in your town or in your city by Grafman. That can be a very big source of innovation.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Is that also something? Because, I mean, you've been now at LA for a few years, of course, and you made a big change in the company. You know, you make it go from here to what it is today, a big turnaround. Can you tell the audience a little bit about this journey and how you managed to get the brands at the top again? And also because probably I have the feeling it has to do with artisans, craftsmanship, innovation. It's not just pushing marketing. For sure. There is a bigger story behind it. Yeah.

Nieves Contreras: For me, what's very interesting is that we are using design not just a tool for doing things, but about thinking what we want to do. So it's using design in a strategic way. So I'm part of the directors committee and I'm working also with the other directors, looking at what we want to do in the future with Yadro. So the owners of Yadro, they have that in mind that you need to to know what you want to do. And it's just not just about if I like this object, I don't like this object, it's what's our goal and what we need to do to achieve that goal. So that's using design in a very strategic way. And knowing that all the people that are working in Yadro, we are going to the same direction. We as creatives, but also the marketing, but also the commercial people are aiming to go there. Then it's easier when you have all the team that's involved so are in the creative department. What we do is trying to maintain the DNA of the brand using the same processes, the same people that were doing the classical pieces. But we are exploring how we can innovate in this way through new aesthetics. Exploring with colors, for sure. It's something that it's been a big change in the company looking for new typologies, how we can use porcelain, not just with sculptures that are decorative, but what other parts of the house or the lives of people we can put porcelain in. So lighting is a very big field for us where we can use our porcelain because of the qualities of colors, shapes, translucency, and we can create decorative objects that are useful also for using, like porcelain in jewelry or doing candles. And exploring all those fields is a very big way of innovating. And also in the last three years we have started working also with artists. So going into the art field, for me, it's also something super interesting because it's giving also the artists a new material where they can experiment and they can bring to life their universe, the creative universe. And as we are working in a very handcrafted way, we can make even unique pieces.

Judith van Vliet: True.

Nieves Contreras: That are not like in big series. We are doing very, very small series. And then we are connecting with the art collectors, the art galleries, the art world. And then that's also expanding another field for us. That's super interesting.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. The art world is obviously it's connected to what is design, of course. And I think they're even becoming more intertwined. There's a lot of designers that call them artists and the other way around. But I think it's very interesting of the many collaboration that you've done lately. But I think especially the art part, it's exciting, right? It's something completely new for. For you and. And for the brand. Of course.

Nieves Contreras: Yes. No, it's a. It's a journey where we are experimenting, we are learning also because it's not. It's not simple. It's not like the commercial world or even the world that was before in Yadro. It's another way of doing. But it's so exciting and we see so many possibilities that can be done. And also working with artists, it's kind of special because they are like designers. I think we are used to blend into companies and to know from the inside and trying to adapt. And an artist, he has his universe. So it's very important that you're connecting his universe that needs to be preserved are really put into value. So it's like melting. It's like co branding. No, it's not like they are doing something for us. It's something that we get to an agreement between the brand and the artist and then trying to connect these two words to do something together.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I've worked in the art world for a couple of years. It's completely different. It's a. But I miss it. It's a beautiful world. Yes. I mean also you've done wonderful collaborations over the last couple of years with amazing designers like of course our Spanish Jaime, Paul Smith, Marcantonio, but also Lee Broom. You know, I saw the beautiful lights that you did in the collaboration with Roluce. What do you look for? So when you're looking for a designer from the brand's perspective, what does an artist or a designer, what are you looking for? Like the maybe keywords of characteristics. What does this person need to represent?

Nieves Contreras: It needs to have A very strong identity. I think that's something also that's very important for us because we are porcelain. It gives you so many possibilities that then the artist needs to have a very strong universe, visual identity that you can connect really, at first sight. You need to see, okay, this is Libroom, or this is Marc Antonio, or this is Naoto Fukasawa, or this is Martial Wonders. We are always working with artists or designers that have this signature that's really, really visible. And then we normally, the artists and designers, they're so happy to be able to explore their own language through porcelain. That's something also, that connects us very quickly because they want to be challenged and to challenge also. So that's something that we are finding, how to get our process, our porcelain, to a next level. It's always a challenge working with a new project with an external designer. Also, we have an internal design team for the rest of the pieces, and we know the limits, and we are trying to push. Push, but from the inside. But when. Sometimes when someone comes from outside, it's easier even to push the company to go farther.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, no, I've. I've heard that many times before. And it's. It's a psychological thing, I'm sure, because, you know, it's what we don't know, sometimes we'll feel it's. It's better or it has a different quality. Also, when. When I. When I listen to the designers that you've just name, they have most of them, not all of them, but they have a very strong color palette. Like, they. It's. I mean, Jaime. I mean, I've. I've literally never really seen him only working with white or with neutrals, for example. I mean, I think he would never avoid to do that. But it's. It's interesting that I think that's also very much part of what the brand is about. It is. It's also color. Your color identity is very strong, I think.

Nieves Contreras: Yes. And it's something that has been inside the brand since the beginning. When the brand was created, there was a palette that everyone knows now about, the Yadro palette. It was a very pastel light colors, almost like aquarelle. And that was very characteristic from the brand. Through the time, we've been exploring new colors, trying to bring some more saturated shades, exploring with metallic finishings and not just colors, but also these finishes are very important, and we have a very big palette that gives us so many possibilities of playing around that then it needs to be exploited. So then for sure, it's something that we push forward because it's just making things white is so boring that we need to push color. It's not easy because people are normally. They are afraid of color buyers. They're like, oh, you need to have taste when choosing colors. And normally people are like, okay, black, white, and that's it. So for us, it's important to push and to show all the different possibilities that are there. And when I was telling you about our lighting collection, something that we can bring different to the market is that use of color. Because otherwise the white, you can do it with, I don't know, with anything, any material. With glass, it's always white metals, always black and white. But our strength is really pushing with all the palette of colors. We have so many, and we are. Even when we do these collaborations, we bring sometimes new colors because, oh, we didn't have this orange. We will formulate that. We have a laboratory, internal laboratory, that sometimes we need a specific color and they will develop that for us. So that's great.

Judith van Vliet: Would you even so if you. Because you also have collections that have limited editions, like, limited edition, I mean, smaller pieces. Right. So you would be able to do a specific color palette for one specific design or one iconic design, for example.

Nieves Contreras: Yes, that's something that we really do. And that's so exciting because I love when we do a limited edition piece, and I'm like, okay, can we redecorate it? Doing it in another way and trying to find another finishing. And that's something that's very interesting for me, these limited edition pieces, because it gives us also the possibility to explore more.

Judith van Vliet: Yep, exactly. It feels like you have no color limitations. Porcelain also, it is a rather easy material to color, but it feels like in your company there's less limitations than in other companies. There's many companies that are having a maximum amount of colors, and some colors cannot be reproduced or the pigment is an issue. But I feel that you have.

Nieves Contreras: Well, we have a very big palette of colors. But honestly, I can tell you that we have. We. We struggle in general, all the companies in porcelain with reds. It's something it's so complicated to get. Like, we don't have a Ferrari red. It's almost impossible. We've been trying to get to that red. And yeah, it's because of the temperature of the firing. The strongest colors are very hard to achieve. And the red, it's. You obtain it through gold. It's the gold inside that gives you the red. And, well, it's. You can have a red, red with less temperature, like when you're firing at 800 degrees, but when you're going to high temperatures, then it's super, super hard.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it's. Yeah. But that's due to the pigment. There's not much you can do about that. No, that's. That's true. Yeah. So everything that I think generally also red, obviously in pigment, it's also a more expensive color. But knowing that there's gold inside, at least for the pigment for porcelain, it's also expensive. Of course. It's. It's a more expensive color generally to be applying than, than other colors. Yeah. Not a lot of people know that.

Nieves Contreras: Yeah, I know.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's funny how that is. How do you hope that your designs are impacting people or the design community? Like what is like you something you want people to feel or how they feel impacted when they see some of your iconic designs or colors?

Nieves Contreras: What I love is that people connect with the pieces that we do. I've always been when people love and they really have an emotional connection with the pieces that we do, that's for me the most accomplishment, the biggest accomplishment that I can have. And in general for the design part, I think that for me it's important to see and to understand how through design, through a strategic. Strategic design, you can also change the direction of a company. It's not about superficial using of design or just doing one thing with a designer. It's really something that, that for me needs to be integrated in the culture of a company to be consistent through the time with a really long vision term. And then I think that's, for me something that's really important is. Yeah. To use design in the right way and to see that it can really help companies to positionate and go forward.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. I think especially the long term strategy, like you said, I think that makes, makes it very different. A lot of people are looking for next year, the next three, four, five, but they don't really have like a 10 to even. It would even be better if they have a 20 year. But there's, there's not. It's, it's always a little bit about next year, next year sales, not about the longer strategy. And I think that makes your work so different. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What changes would you like to see in the Spanish design industry for the next five to 10 years? Thinking about strategic thinking or where do you think the Spanish market will be growing in the next couple of years? And what does it need to grow?

Nieves Contreras: Yeah, I think about sustainability. It's like our biggest challenge in the following years, how to produce less and consume less and find better solutions in a design way. Not just producing things like design can be applied also in strategic thinking. Design thinking, service design. I think we have so many challenges that just working around projects and still consumerist things is going to be outdated. It's something that it's going to be over in a few years. I think that reflecting in things that make sense and things that are useful for the communities and we are also getting, we are all getting older and the elderly are going to be a very big part of the societies. So also I think that we need to start thinking about how are we going to handle that part. So the challenges for me in the following years, sustainability, finding services and also let's see how AI is going to change our world. Because I think it's something that has, is going to have a very big impact in all our lives on the companies, for sure.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. No, especially I think right now there's a lot of positive and negative, there's a lot of people that have obviously started using AI, but I think we have not yet understood the impact. We're not there yet.

Nieves Contreras: No, no, I think it's hard to imagine the impact because it's going to depend on so many things. For sure, our regulation is going to be needed to have a responsible use of AI, but I don't know, it's growing so fast that even the regulations are going to be so slow that it's going to be like in five, 10 years. There's a very big bias about that. And yeah, we need to think in what makes sense and not just do things and create more things that are not needed, but really think about what we need and what are the solutions that we are going to propose and do things for a better world, not just to make money, quick money now and let's see what happens next because otherwise we are faced to a big problem.

Judith van Vliet: Yep. I think this is what we've been doing for too many years and it's time to rethink. How do you think AI possibly can influence dadro? How do you think it could possibly influence in a positive or a negative way?

Nieves Contreras: Well, I think in a positive way there are things that we can use for improve processes and to improve things that we internally are wasting time in. Many things that are purely administrative and have no added value. So I hope that AI at least will save us from all this boring work. From another point of view, I think that we are going to be in a good situation as craftsmen, to be in a position of people who are giving value to all this craftsmanship, all this artist work, all the handmade work, all the keeping the traditions and keeping the values of a company, I think that's going also to be good for us, I hope, and I think it will not impact us in that way, because we are not in industrial way of production and our values are different and are the same before, like doing excellent products in handcraft, in a handcrafted process, and looking for the artist, the artistic interpretation of things. So in that way, I think for us, it can impact us positively for the use of that things and in the market, I think that craftsmanship is going to have a bigger success. We see that people are now very interested also in doing things with the hands. You go to a street, you find at least two ceramic workshops in every street, and everyone is like doing things with their hands. And really, people need to get away from screens and computers and things and go back to the materiality and to feeling things and touching things and doing things by themselves. So in that way, I think craftsmanship is going to have a very big moment in the following year.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. What is next for you, Nieves? What are projects that you're working on or something that you'd like to be working on project like a dream project of yours?

Nieves Contreras: Well, this is my dream project, really. I always say I have the best work in the world because it's really so nice and it's so rich and different because we touch so many different things that I cannot get bored of the things that we do. Yeah. Now, now, as I was telling you before, the art editions is a very challenging, exciting thing. I'm looking for new artists to work with, so I'm connecting with them, proposing the project, trying to see what we can do together. And this is something that we are exploring for the following three years, where we want to show the art shows that we are going to participate in. And it's also very interesting that we are working with different also countries. For example, India, for me, it's a very interesting market because we are doing specific pieces for them. So that's also another culture very different from us, and we have a specific project that we are doing for them. So exploring Indian culture, understanding it and exploring new pieces that we can adapt to that market is also very exciting.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, no, I get. And they have a completely different color game.

Nieves Contreras: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Like even, I mean, people say, talk about Morocco, they talk about Mexico, of course, Colombia. I mean, whole Latin America generally, generally is very colorful. But India is like next level.

Nieves Contreras: N. No, India is crazy. And it's very cultural. And they. They have so many meanings that you need to be very accurate about what you're doing and about the meanings that they have. Because even like changing a little bit of shade or changing a little bit of some sign that they have somewhere, it can completely be very complicated. Not for them, because they have. It's like just the deities. So it's something that's also connected to their culture in a very spiritual way. So you need to be super careful when working with that.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Well, I look forward to see this collaborations come out. I think everybody now is imagining already the colors and the possible artists that you're going to be working with. Thank you so much, Nieves, for sharing this big information with us and also sharing your just your passion for everything that is design.

Nieves Contreras: Thank you, Jaydit. I always love talking about all these subjects. It's so inspiring and being able to share it. It's. It's very. It's amazing.

Judith van Vliet: Thank you for listening to another podcast of the Color Authority. I hope you enjoyed it. Please rate, comment and feedback the show. This is now a beautiful option on most podcast directories. So let us know what you think and next month we will come back to you with another colorful episode.