S6E10 Biomimicry Futures with Geraldine Wharry

Geraldine Wharry is one of the world's leading Fashion Futurists. As a Regenerative Futures Architect, she helps partners decode emergence and implement change, whilst adopting strategies leveraging creative, systemic and environmental imperatives.

Trusted by organisations ranging from Nike, Samsung, Afterpay, Christian Dior to Seymour Powell, Geraldine's blend of strategic, regenerative and creative foresight has been applied across fashion, beauty, technology, sustainability, culture, media, gaming, the arts, health, travel and industrial design. Geraldine is also a regular speaker on stages ranging from SXSW to the Adidas global headquarters. 

Her views on a future of fashion that stands at the crossroads of Tech, Purpose and Sustainability are regularly featured on the BBC, Vogue, The Financial Times, BoF and other international press publications. She writes about strategic futures for Dazed Beauty and in her monthly column 'Tomorrow' for Spur Magazine in Japan.

Questioning established future foresight methods and innovation implementation problems, by applying regenerative futures thinking and Biomimicry, has been a running thread in Geraldine's practice and the school community hybrid she founded, Trend Atelier. She is a regular guest lecturer at leading universities in Europe.

As a Fellow of the Royal Society for the Arts and a member of the United Nations' Conscious Fashion & Lifestyle network, Geraldine Wharry's mission is to inspire leaders, industries and people to enact visionary futures, for the greater good of the people and planet.

Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Welcome back, everybody, to the Color Authority podcast. The podcast about everything you need to know about color. Now, today we're going to be talking about color, but we're going to be mainly talking about feature scenarios and quite a bit of terminology that I even sometimes had to look up because I'm going to be speaking to Geraldine Wharry. She's one of the world's leading fashion futurists. As a regenerative futures architect, she helps partners decode emergence and, and implement change whilst adopting strategies, leveraging creative, systemic and environmental imperatives. Let's talk to Geraldine and ask her what this is all about. Good morning, Geraldine. Welcome to the Color Authority. I'm happy that we finally are here. It's been a while that I've been like, oh, I need to invite her and, and this is a last second chance that you're available. So I'm super happy to have you here on, on my podcast on International Podcast Day, which is today.

Geraldine Wharry: Oh, amazing. I did not know.

Judith van Vliet: How are you?

Geraldine Wharry: I'm really good today. Very excited to be with you. I love your podcast and the conversations you have and, and so I'm, I'm really excited to, to spend some time with you and the listeners. Good.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, you have. I mean, I've been following your work obviously since a very long time. I think the first time we met was at a color marketing group meeting. I think it was in Catania. Sicily, right?

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, in Sicily. You were heading the group at the time and I spoke at one of your. At your conference that year.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it was great.

Geraldine Wharry: You had some really great people there as well. I have really good memories of that. And then I tagged on a couple of days in Sicily, which was amazing as well.

Judith van Vliet: Sicily is always a good idea. Like Italy generally is always a good idea. But yeah, I remember that was the, obviously the last conference before COVID So I think it was good that we got together and it was fun and I was. You were doing already a lot of interesting things, but we're going to dive into those topics in a while. But you've been studying a lot as well. You've been researching a lot and you've come along a lot of interesting, I think, new ways of doing trends, doing color, doing design in general. So I'm very pleased that this is happening right after you've. You've actually published some pieces about that. So we're going to dive in. Nor do interviews also with people when I don't understand what they're doing. But I'm curious. So I think that's a little bit this case. Like, I know the terminology of most of what you do, but I'm like, oh, I need to know more about this. So that's. Normally when I do a podcast with.

Geraldine Wharry: Somebody, to be honest, I'm sometimes confused because there's so many different terminologies. I think that's maybe something we can talk about too.

Judith van Vliet: Exactly. Just like, even just do a book on terminology, I think some designers would just need it, like, what does this mean? What does that mean? But I think generally designers currently are just overwhelmed with everything that need that they need to take care of in their processes. And obviously one of those things is also color. But before diving in, I'd like to also know what color is for you. Geraldine.

Geraldine Wharry: I was thinking about this because I am originally a trained textile designer and my specialty was print. So color was everything. It wasn't just drawing, it was how colors spoke with each other. And for me, I was thinking about all these different words. But in the end I landed with color is my best friend, because it's really, for me, a long story of kinship. And it started with discovery, because when I was learning textile design, we were also doing a lot of color theory. And I started employing different relationships between color in my prints. And then this physical and emotional experience was happening inside me where the colors were speaking and making me feel a certain way. And it just became a little bit of a thing I was strong with as well. That carried me through my work when I became a fashion designer. And I was able to design with color and work a lot with color and be and make really good choices also with color in terms of prints and the colors that did well for the brands I worked for. But it was always, even when we were in the design studios picking out our color palettes, just like I remember salivating. And now I guess, obviously as a futurist, I don't employ those skills in the same way, but I still utilize it a lot in my own personal life in the way I dress in my home. And it's a real story of kinship and comfort. And color really is home. You know, it's your best friend. And it gives you that feeling of fulfillment. And I think that's why it's so important for it to connect with people's authentic selves and not just what's trending, because you want to really have an authentic relationship with color because it goes all the way from making you feel better, all the way to being a tool for self expression. So those are just so many different things. That all I could think about is actually, you know, color is my best friend. Like today I'm a little bit tired. I'm wearing bright colors. I just feel, I, you know, it just signals to me in the world I'm here.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Geraldine Wharry: And that, that's just my personal relationship with color. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: I, I fully understand that. Like I'm, I'm also wearing orange. I know most people are not going to see that different shade of orange, but always when I have one of those days and I'm feeling a bit like, ugh, I, when I wear orange or yellow, I just, my mood literally changes. I'm like, okay, I can do it today. You know, I can.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: And it's different if I wear black or a different color. You know, it's, it's interesting how color work. Do you miss working in color professionally? Do you miss that or because you're adopting it a lot in your, your life, as you said, your personal life, it's enough. Or do you miss it being a color futurist, for example?

Geraldine Wharry: No, I don't really miss it because I have to say I wear a lot of color. Like people who know me, I wear prints, I wear color. I, you know, I wear. Today I'm wearing you bright pink earrings with my bright orange top. Like, I, I just for me, I guess that's why I love fashion. It's just self expression. It's so. I, I wouldn't say I miss it a lot in terms of working with it professionally, but I am still fascinated by it. And I, you know, I've interviewed you and you know, I've, I know a lot of people who work in color. I, and I think it is a very important part of navigating our relationship with fashion and design and our environment and just very well placed in the current context of society and what people need as well. And I always say fashion is a mirror of society, but I think actually color is too. And so I wouldn't say I miss it because I introduce it. And I still look for those signals when I'm doing foresight. Whether it's color finishes, like who's innovating in that space, it's always part of your life.

Judith van Vliet: Color is part of everybody's life. Even if people say I don't really do color, it's always there. It's always, as you said, it's a friend or it's invisible friend for some people.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Your vision on the future of fashion, because that's very much what your direction is now. And you've You're, I mean, you're, you, you've obviously went from textile, you went to fashion. You're doing many things, but let's say, let's focus on, on the fashion part for now. So the future of fashion, according to your view, is rather different than that of, of others that I have also spoken to. But generally, a lot of people that we always, we all, we both know in our, in our inner circle. Tell us a little bit more about what your future vision is of how you see the future of fashion.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, I started, I became a fashion designer in 99, so it's been a while. And then, you know, obviously I did the typical career progression into being a senior designer and design director. But then when I kind of pressed the reset button, I went into futures because I thought I, I grew very tired of the fashion system. I was experiencing a lot of waste in my work, and I. There was a lot of dissonance there. And this is back in like 2007, 2008, and I was unpacking that and trying to figure out, like, it just didn't resonate with me creatively anymore at all. It felt very wasteful, not just on a material level, but also even just on a creative level because we were just designing hundreds and hundreds of styles and so many collections. I'm like, why? What for? What I guess was my point of differentiation is that I then went into foresight for one of the biggest agencies for fashion trends in the world. And then when I decided to go, I'm taking a bit of a windy road there. But when I decided to become a consultant, I had two choices. Either go for being an agency, hire people, grow a team, or be independent. And I thought, I want to be independent because I just want to have a voice. I want to have the freedom to not just do trends from a journalistic perspective. Because in the trend foresight teams we were called, you know, most forecasters were actually called editors, trend editors. It was very much structured like a journalistic team. And so I guess since the beginning, I've been talking about things like sustainability, sustainability and climate change, you know, for over a decade ago. And I, I realized quite early on that it was perhaps a form of bias, but that I was going to lean into that because I could. And, and it was not a big decision with a business coach and all these things. I literally, you know, looked at the people I admired, look, and I was just like, this is where I'm going. This is what resonates. And it's. And that's what led me to have the freedom to really have my own vision of fashion, which is very much aligned with an idea that it's unhealthy abundance and we need to redefine abundance in our industry. And really it's been a long journey of unpacking that from a perspective of innovation and emergence. Not just looking at materials or sustainability, but technology, just everything, Culture, media, all the way to infrastructure, fashion as a form of infrastructure.

Judith van Vliet: Right.

Geraldine Wharry: And I'm critical, but that stems from a real love of fashion, you know. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: And I think also if you, if this, I mean, this has been your world, so you're allowed to be critical because you've seen the ins and outs of it.

Geraldine Wharry: So.

Judith van Vliet: So you're allowed to have an opinion and obviously to choose a new direction. But new directions not always are easy for everyone. And I think that's where I feel like most of us are stuck. Because what you do with your business is you help partners decode emergence and change. But how difficult is it for businesses especially, but even people to change? I mean, it's not, not everybody's open to that. How do you, how do you help them?

Geraldine Wharry: I guess with partners it's, you know, it can be challenging, but it's maybe not as challenging as people think, but it's a lot of, I guess, hand holding in a way, and helping people accept how to go from one paradigm to another or from one cultural code to another. And I have this thing I did for myself and for a client called the thought leadership nex nexus. And really it's like there's a cultural, societal and technological shift where like new ideas are emerging and then conversations emerge and we're like decoders and, and we help bring the clarity and take action and a bit like illuminators because people are very resistant to change and struggle to take those risks. So in foresight, when we show what's emerging, what's bubbling up, what's gaining momentum, it gives them that confidence. And there's a great. I saw Brian Eno speak at the RSA a couple years ago. And so this is a quote from, taken from that event. And he says revolutions happen in two phases. Realization. Something has gone wrong, everyone realized the other person has realized the same thing. People talk more about it. And then revolutions, revolution, sorry. Happens when people feel their strength as a community. So it's really hard to be first, but there are always those people who are happy to be first and pave the way. And I think what's very hard at the moment, especially with fashion is we see these changes happening and then we engage with them, but we engage with them in a performative way or in a surface way. So then what we need to do also, and what is much harder, is then work as sort of systems architects and from a strategic perspective, help our partners think more systemically. And that's not sexy at all for anyone. And I think that's our biggest challenge right now. Understanding that culture is one thing and it's very important, but we are also infrastructure. So if we look at planes or movies, those were big changes that were both technological, that led to cultural change, and they were also very linked to. Connected to infrastructure. So. So, yeah, I think that's. That's the biggest challenge. It's not necessarily the cultural change, as always, and people often think it's all about mindset, but where I've shifted in the last couple of years and is understanding, yeah, it's mindset, but actually it's also a lot about architecting and understanding the levers you need to pull to actually make that shift happen.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it's a systematic change because if you, let's say you're a big company, you have a system in place, you have a production line in place, a process on how you approve certain designs, how you produce them, what your quality control is, some kind of change over there, and you're going to have to, like you said, take them by the hand and show them what are small steps that they can take in making those changes.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think the future of fashion, just to go back a bit, the vision, just to go back to your last question, is somehow embracing fashion not just as culture, but as infrastructure. Because some figures show that if we were to put together all of our financial output, we would be the seventh biggest GDP in the world. Yet we do not have a seat at the table when it comes to the big conversations on investment, on policy, all of those things. We're not taken seriously as an industry at all. But in the UK alone, we represent half of the creative industry's financial input.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, it's crazy if you think about.

Geraldine Wharry: It, but there's no investment. We're just investing in AI. And that's because no one's saying, hey, actually, we're in. I think in the UK alone, we employ one point. There's 1.3 million jobs in the UK alone connected to fashion, generating approximately £60 billion annually. So I guess I went from a very romantic love of trends of just the vision. Look at these amazing emerging trends. And doing very well, with that and now ironically I'm kind of going back to that. What's happening behind the scene the way when we are designers, nobody sees the color lab dips, the color approvals, the fittings, the trips to China, the prototyping, the first proto, the second proto, the final product, the pre production proto, the sample collections. I mean, no, that's like 90% of the work. The technical packages. You know, we are engineers, we. And I think we need. And it's very, very hard to make that point.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, people don't understand that. They really think, I mean I don't do fashion obviously, but that I literally sit at my drawing board playing with color and then suddenly an idea is born and then that's it. And then that's, that's just a 5% and then the rest comes. And half of the time things are just not even possible to produce because not all ideas are manageable in industry processes, for example, or not the materials or. There's so much to it that a lot of people, like you said, they, they don't see that until they've lived it. You've talked about regenerative trends because I think that's a little bit like you said. I did emerging trends, I did fashion trends. It was all very creative, it was obviously all very insightful. I do think that regenerative trend is a little bit of what you just said. It's the behind the scenes, it is how things are made a little bit more than it looks good and we can sell it. But what is your vision on regenerative futures and how would you explain that to, to our audience?

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, there was a really interesting big academic research on what regenerative means because a lot of people use different definitions and it's a bit vague and it almost runs the risk of being co opted the same way the world sustainability has. But having been in that sort of sustainability space for a long time and seeing how it was hitting a wall and trying to unpack that. Why, why is something not clicking? Why? That's also what took me into regenerative. I, I had an, a personal awareness of it as well. Because. Just a little personal story, but my father and mother are really into healthy eating. My father is a filmmaker, but he had a gap in time where he studied to become an organic farmer and actually became, you know, got a degree and did. Decided to study biodynamic farming. So as a teenager I was a bit exposed to that and I understood that. But the essentially the regenerative, the word regenerate Means to create again. It means renewal or revival. And so it's very much based on the natural systems that sustain life on Earth, because those are naturally regenerative and circular. Even when something dies, it has a purpose and it's a system where there is no waste. I mean, even in the circular economy or sustainability, there is waste. And so it's about creating conditions conducive to life and constant regeneration. And it's important to understand that regenerative is not the same as sustainability, which implies that something will endure over time without degrading, but it doesn't necessarily regenerate itself or go back into the system. So as far as, like, what regenerative futures or what regenerative trend might look like, a regenerative trend might be something, okay, how can we bring that back? How can we make it this beautiful feedback loop and a regenerative. In terms of regenerative futures, it's really aligning all of your work in foresight, even if you're not a forecaster and you're just using trends as part of your toolbox in a way that you feel and understand promotes life on Earth for all living systems. But there, it's really growing there, you know, regenerative economics, the circular economy is a regenerative economic system. Regenerative leadership is really burgeoning as well. What that means regenerative futures, obviously, regenerative design is also a big, you know, something that's really emerging in terms of forming new design principles. And also regenerative manufacturing and industry. There are even new factories that are modeling as forests. And this is a very interesting field. And obviously regenerative agriculture is something that's talked about a lot in fashion when it comes to materials and sourcing. So it seems a bit obscure at first, but I think it's a fascinating way of recalibrating our methodology and also how we understand our output, our impact.

Judith van Vliet: On everything and all living mechanism and all living beings. I did a presentation for the Forecast Club on indeed regenerative design. And funny enough, there were a lot of people in the design world that had never heard of the word. There was obviously people that did. So I had numerous examples, obviously from Europeans that also are. For me, it's very much a movement that did not start in Europe, for me, really moved to some people that were really close to nature and still are closer to nature than we are in Europe. And that for me is really Latin America. But there's a lot of this happening in Africa, of course, as well. And it's Very interesting how this is now what you said. There's now even regenerative leadership. There's. I mean, that the word is growing, you know, and it's growing in newer systems. I'm very curious to see what, what will happen over the next five to 10 years with all of this. It's exciting.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a paradox because today designers, industrial designers, architects, you know, we're dedicating to creating our built environment, but we very rarely consult the natural world. And there's a sense we lost our way. We haven't been listening to the intelligence that's already been out there for billions of years and that it's all there for us. And people are starting to really understand that.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, I think that directly connects to something that really is a topic that you've been working with, which is biomimicracy, which is a whole new way of designing. I think it's. It's an element of what obviously also regenerative design is. It is indeed, like you said, going back to a way of designing like we used to, but we've sort of forgotten our ways. Can you tell a little bit more how. What your vision is on this, on biomimicryssi and how you use it right now in your work?

Geraldine Wharry: Right. So, yeah, I guess my relationship with biomimicry started. I'm just going to unpack this a little bit because it started back in actually at the start of the pandemic, because at the time I was already thinking, I need to educate myself more on systems design, because what we need is to understand how systems work. And at the time I was looking into something called transition design, and the program was not. I enrolled and then it didn't happen because of the pandemic. And then I was like, well, I'm talking a lot about nature, but I don't really understand this. And I looked into biomimicry and took an introductory course. And it's something I've always wanted to explore more because for me, from my perspective as a futurist, but also I call myself a regenerative futures architect. There's different pillars to my work and how I envision change, and one of them is futures literacy. And so I've always been interested in trying to create new methodologies or new approaches, principles, frameworks. And biomimicry has already been used in incredibly successful ways for design. But what most people don't know is it's actually amazing for systems design, even like organizational design, et cetera. So I looked at it from that perspective. And we decided with the biomimicry mentors at Learn Biomimicry where I studied that it was based on what I wanted to do. It was best to study becoming. Sorry, a biomimicry educator versus a biomimicry practitioner who is someone who actually applies biomimicry. And basically biomimicry is the practice of looking at nature's designs, strategies, ecosystems, organisms to solve complex human design and systemic challenges. And it's been used by NASA, hospitals, you know, everybody knows about Michael Phelps during the Olympics wearing that shark skin suit all the way to Velcro wind turbines, all the way to the circular economy, which is directly also inspired by biomimicry. And I use it very much as a solution driven practice. Although when you enter that field, a personal journey does really, really start. Ultimately it's a very pragmatic practice. Does that. I hope I'm answering your question.

Judith van Vliet: Yes, you are. Yeah, people are gonna go probably rewind to listen to it a few times. Yeah, that's possible with a podcast. So that's perfectly fine.

Geraldine Wharry: I might just give like one example. Like biomimicry is not gonna say I'm gonna solve all of the problems. It's gonna say I'm gonna solve this particular problem. But through that solution, a whole web of solutions is going to open up. So I might look at one particular example. Like the famous one for organizational design is amps and bees, you know, and, and, but it's, you know, it's used in Ideo, Estee Lauder, Jaguar, Nike, Levi's, it's. And even recently. But Microsoft actually created a role of a head of biomimicry and integrative technologies. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, we all know ants and also birds obviously, and bees. They all work in synagogue together and they have a way of communicating, which I think we're learning now, how they communicate. But I mean, you see them in the sky, they don't hit each other, they fly together. Clock. And if we would do that with cars, it will be a big mess. So it's so much that we as humans can learn from. I think this community building and structure that obviously nature shows us already it's here.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. So biomimicry itself as a practice, because it's not a concept, it's a practice, it's got even its own kind of ethical codes. It works according to what's called life's principles and also a framework called model measurementor. So through life's principles alone, you have, I think eight rules on how to design and some of them apply very well to how to do foresight. And it ranges from understanding your local context to collaboration. Because biomimicry doesn't exist without collaboration basically as well. And local resources. Local, yeah, everything context. So say if in my methodologies they wouldn't be able to work if they weren't adapted to everyone's local context and if a type of feedback loop wasn't introduced from the learners or users. Because nature is constantly adapting and it's been doing that successfully for 3.8 billions of years. And AI itself is, is also, also uses biomimicry tremendously. So, so, so this was a portal I entered. I just finished my certification and it was really to just kind of put my money also where my mouth was and just say, I, I understand this from a biological perspective technically and this is one way we can do it. It's not silver bullet, but it's one approach.

Judith van Vliet: It's a new approach. Well, it's not a new approach, but we're relearning that approach. How would that look like? If you look at how biomimicry would, for example, how would that influence color and material design? Because I would imagine it influences me. I'm Dutch but living in Spain. It influences me in a different way than you. Born French and live in the United Kingdom. Because your contact is mine, right?

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. If you were to work with biomimicry, when you're making a color decision, you would ask yourself and your team, has nature already solved what I'm trying to solve and how? And because as a biomimic or aspiring biomimic, nature becomes your sense of measure for what works and provides a successful solution. So a biomimicry led decision may not look like nature at all. It's not about it, it's not biophilic or it's, you know, there's. People confuse biophilic with biomimic. Biophilic is more about connecting with nature from an aesthetic and a feeling perspective. Biomimicry is a little bit more nerdy. It's saying know actually how does it work? But it will fully emulate nature strategies and performance versus just focusing on nature. Inspired esthetics. Yeah. So you might go on a resource and you know, say, oh, and in fact there's some amazing innovations in color and materials now with SparkCell, this company that's been doing amazing work with color and finishes, using technology that is, has absolutely no plastic, is completely natural, that is inspired by butterflies. How, how, how, how light Reflects so that even some of their finishes can even change colors depending on how you see, it's a real like environment for me.

Judith van Vliet: But I think most listeners as well.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, yeah. SparkCell just got a ton of investment. It's a really successful startup that's revolutionizing the space for color and finishes.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, but, and it's. So these would even be finishes. And let's say when we're talking about this specific example, because I'm sure there, there's, there's more out there, but let's say that they just are the ones that now are growing and gaining in popularity. Perhaps. But those are finishes that are not only. Because I know I'm going to get this question. These, these colors are not only going to be able to, to be reproduced on, let's say coatings and plastics, they can be reproduced on this as well. It doesn't have to be natural because I know people are going to have that question. So what they're producing, it can be produced on something that is synthetic.

Geraldine Wharry: I mean, sadly, biomimicry innovations can be very polluting. You know, I've got to be completely honest. Velcro is not made out of a biodegradable material. Also, biomimicry is used in, in robotics and in the military. So, so however, in its principle, in, in principle, how it works is incredibly holistic. For example, one of the biomimics in our, in, in our alumni group has been developing an insulation material for building because a lot of architects use biomimicry looking at bark because bark is amazingly insulating for the tree and how bark functions. And so obviously she's going to be developing that with natural materials. But when you're using biomimicry, you won't necessarily have a material output. It could just be even in the flow of water or permaculture or different ways in cities of creating water flows and, and yeah, yeah.

Judith van Vliet: So for urban planning even this would be amazing obviously to adapt to climate change and growing cities.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. And it's used in interesting ways in Africa. My biomimicry co pilot is an architect and she manages huge building projects in Johannesburg.

Judith van Vliet: So yeah, you said it also influenced on how you now do future insights because obviously why are you futurists but adapting biomimicry and everything that is regenerative design and trends. How. So how, how, how did that make your vision or how did that change now your process and your methodology of creating possible futures?

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. So when biomimicry meets futures, nature is still your guide, measure and mentor. And you make a shift, a sort of metamorphosis, into becoming a regenerative futures architect. So you're no longer a forecaster, you're an architect of change. And it starts with an identity shift all the way to the actual systemic change you can impact. Because I really believe that the next evolutionary chapter for future foresight is to create those new metrics and value exchanges that are not based on data or the amount of likes, but are based on nature's living intelligence, which has been serving our planet, you know, for billions of years. So it's about maintaining that future's intelligence and how we guide cultural codes. Biomimicry lives in the future and we can use it to help us decode emergence, but put it through the lens of how is this emergent signal serving living systems and understanding those new forms of intelligence, Then it's about understanding life's principles. And in that sense, nature is our greatest futurist. And we are nature anyways. It's not like something that we're not a part of.

Judith van Vliet: We see ourselves as separate from nature, but we're not.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah, so that's a whole shift in mindset foresight methods based on some of biobimicry's principles. And so we can. Based on just looking at those principles in the biomimicry sort of methodology. It's not about serving unlimited growth, it's about serving regenerative futures and then the final output which is key to strategic foresight. If we look at strategic foresight, it's very much also about systems thinking. So then we look at systems innovation in futures. It's not just about systems thinking, it's systems innovation. Because with biomimicry we can solve some of our wicked interconnected problems. Looking at how organisms may solve these. These problems. Not just organisms, ecosystems. We have an ecosystem here in London and the Greater region. So. And that's. Those are. It's not that different from what we already do. It's just a recalibration and to be more in synergy and not just talk about that synergy and talk about interspecies harmony and all these beautiful concepts we have, but actually create solutions around that. Yeah, design, design, strategic solutions. So I think it's a bit of a recalibration for a lot of forecasters who may be more in the theory or in the research or in the presentation and just kind of deliver foresight forecasts and are kind of treated separately. Ideally in a more harmonious system. We are more integrated in the change that a company is trying to make. And that's very difficult. That's a whole new paradigm shift. But it's potentially also about. And again, that's where the personal shift in our role changes. Understanding our role. Do we sort of need to rethink our agreement and our role? I really do think that our current methods of future foresight are a bit outdated. And I do think so many things in the world right now need some change. And the field of foresight is not immune to that.

Judith van Vliet: No, I fully agree. I think also, I mean, customers, companies, people, they always want new forecasts because they're inspiring and they are inspiring, but the application, I think there's still a big gap there. I still feel a lot of people don't know how to apply a trend or color, but I think systematically going, indeed, like you said, going deeper and changing processes and completely changing the application of how you do things in not just aesthetics, because still, trend forecasting very often ends up in beautiful aesthetics and then it stops. So how would you see that happening in the future? And what is the role of AI in all of this? Because you talked about AI before.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: How do you feel that we can move forward as futurists and how we could better give future insights? And how is AI influencing that as well?

Geraldine Wharry: I mean, AI is part of the ecosystem now. I don't think it's to be excluded, but it's key to understand it's not the only form of intelligence for us. And biomimicry is about working, thinking as an ecosystem. So if you only relied on data and AI, that would be problematic. And there's some really interesting platforms that are biomimicry led, that are using AI now that are amazing. One of them just had a big award at the Global Change Conference in Paris is called Asteria. But so to go back to your question, if our role in futures is just to create prompts and find keywords that are trending and do research based on that and become sort of wordsmiths for AI. I just don't see the point, really. Yeah, I think where the dissonance happens is that we're still in a phase where we think our work is all about signal gathering. And we have way more signals than we need, and we've had them for decades. And let's be honest, for those of us who've been in this field, not just in foresight, but in design in general for decades, obviously things change, but a lot doesn't. I think our understanding of change and innovation needs to. So if AI is just about Signal gathering. It's not interesting. But if it's about facilitating information and creativity and being part of a broader ecosystem of craft, then it's, you know, it's very important. Yeah. So I think obviously the dissonance right now is the carbon footprint of AI. That's a whole other. It's not even another conversation. It's really part of the. We're creating a big problem here. But I think I use AI. I think AI is one of those new players on the block. It's been around for decades. It was invented decades ago. But I mean, as far as the mainstream use, it just needs some critical thinking, just like everything else.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Everything that's new needs some feedback, like critical feedback. After having used it for a while. We need to sit back, get at that table and discuss, you know, law, regulations. Not only that, it is indeed, especially those data centers, the water they require. It's just.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. And how extractive it is to local communities. And I think it's about balancing that global digital culture with authentic change, local expression, just all of those things. So if we can try and be a little bit more disciplined as creatives in terms of having those. That Constitution, that Bill of Rights, if you may, or that Bill of. We do not have any shortcomings when it comes to creativity that we are incredibly strong with. And we need to lean into the things where we have less strength. And I think at the moment our Achilles heel is speed and quick solutions also because we're under pressure to provide.

Judith van Vliet: That all the time. Yeah.

Geraldine Wharry: And so that's what I'm trying to contribute in my own small way to the regenerative futures field is something that is identity shifting, but it can also be practical and applicable. Because I think myself, and, and I, and I criticize myself for this. I've grown frustrated with the next trend. Like, I just don't see the point. And I, I'm just more hungry for actual change now. And I'm just like, don't show me the next trend. Show me the next really interesting infrastructural change. Because whatever is being coined as truly innovative has been talked about for years now, like highly personalized production so that there's no overproduction. Still not happening. You know, there's just so many innovations that just have not scaled. And it's like, how can we scale it the way nature could scale it in a way that is efficient but also doesn't hurt our, Our, Our planet, you know? Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: No, I fully agree. I mean, what we see back here in In Spain, I think in Europe, in Europe in general is people going back to crafts is really doing things with their hands. And I think that is this counter reply to pressure. A digitalized world being under pressure, but also just literally being stressed. Obviously using your hands, it, it makes you slow down. But I think at the same point as, as, as what you said, it's still not applied. You know, we keep, we, we say, we talk about craft since how long now? Authenticity as well. But when is that going to systematically be applied for mainstream. You know that. And that's, that's exactly what you're saying, like when is that happening?

Geraldine Wharry: And I think that's where fashion has got caught in the tripe trap of hype and what I call the hypercycle of just wanting those likes, wanting those clicks and starting to treat itself as media versus identity and something very utilitarian and practical.

Judith van Vliet: We're very much on that crossroad, I think for fashion especially because there's still big lines up in front of those not gonna name any brands when they've got a new job. But there's also a movement, obviously mindset change. As you said, people want things to do differently. Where do you think that balance is going to lie in the next 10 years when we look at fashion? When you think about purpose, I think purpose also is very important. But also obviously the circularity and the regenerative aspect in fashion, I think one.

Geraldine Wharry: Of the beautiful things about AI is the fact that more and more brands will have a difficult time hiding the data. The data is all there. And in terms of even brands who are trying to embed the circular economy or like the digital passport law in Europe, that's, those are early indicators. So even there might be some kind of information route that influences fashion to stop the bs, basically. And as far as relevance, it's, it's, you know, when we look at Vogue as an institution, it's so important in the history of fashion. But it's, you know, when we look at legacy media, I think of fashion as a legacy system. And what's interesting right now, and maybe seems disconnected, is that reports this year show that hiring for graduates has dropped by 30%. So the listings, it's become the hardest it's ever been to get a job for young graduates. And I think what's going to come out of that is either more apprenticeships where because people, companies are hiring more when you have like two years experience, so perhaps more craft. There's also a return to certain, more jobs like being a plumber or an Engine, you know, structural engineer, things like that. Yeah. But also I think it's going to lead to a lot of innovation where we're going to see these young graduates who are like, well, I ain't got no money, I ain't got no job. My parents are supporting me, I have all this time. And that's how Apple was born, in their garage in a way, you know. So I think there's perhaps these unintended consequences from the job market currently that are going to place people out of their comfort zones and there might be some place where we see tremendous innovation there because usually people don't just sit on something and not do anything, feel sorry for themselves. So. So, long story short, I think fashion at the moment is in a kind of legacy system that is living on borrowed time. And I can't tell you exactly how it will change, but I think the biggest mistake is to think that the future is in digital or virtual fashion. It might be if virtual, you know, glasses, all of that stuff comes out. I think it's more in biotechnology and health and also. Yeah. Some kind of personalization, like really responsive manufacturing and. Yeah, so, so, yeah. And there's a lot of, of, of people who are trying to, and working on these projects that are pioneering this and are making it work. There's. The templates are there. Yep, true.

Judith van Vliet: So that they'll go in the market and they'll be able to show us and inspire, I think, many others out there.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. At the moment it seems quite utopian, but it's, it's not. It's just, I think the mistake is to think that one thing will fully disappear, like fast fashion overnight. It's going to be different kinds of markets and systems cohabitating. And what we're not factoring in is some kind of big climate tipping point. Yeah. Legislation. All these things are slowly coming through. So I think the future of fashion is there's no shortage of creativity, of media, of micro trends. It's just now. Oh, actually fashion is infrastructure. Yeah. Fashion could literally change our cities if we had local centers where things are upcycled. People bring things, it creates jobs. Fashion could change so many things, help change so many things.

Judith van Vliet: And that's the mind shift that we need to go from a fluffy, romantic, idealized, magical world to something that actually is very tangible and that could bring, could bring solutions to.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: Our world.

Geraldine Wharry: You might want to continue collaborating with your amazing influencers and musicians. Great. But why aren't you also collaborating with your waste management system in your city or doing something an amazing activation or creating new jobs in that way where people are willing to be apprentices. Like, why are. There's just so many other ways we could be functioning that would be incredibly meaningful, but also creative and exciting, impactful. I think we just need to. But that's, that's marginal at the moment. But this is where change happens in the marginality.

Judith van Vliet: Always. Always. My last and final question, obviously moving back to color. What is your color power? Geraldine?

Geraldine Wharry: I think it's a. My color power is about integrity or staying integral. And I guess that goes back to self expression. It's hard. I can't go for a day without feeling integral to myself and like I'm following my, my path and, and color for me is, is the first point of contact when I open my world. I open my blinds, I see the sun, I see color, I open my wardrobe. It's just that, that way of saying, you know, how do I want to show up today? So in that sense it connects to the healing power of, of color. And, and, and I think that's a great place for where color needs to be today because there is so much tension and anxiety and burnout. And so color for me is, is that resonance with yourself you might just have, I mean, if, I don't know, if, you know, I, if I, if I want to draw or use materials I have at home, I may not actually draw something figurative. I may. May just do a collage. And the colors being put together heal me. You know, they, they make me feel more integral.

Judith van Vliet: Color is integrity to who we are and how we want to represent ourselves.

Geraldine Wharry: Yeah. And so I think in that sense it's a call to action. Yes, there are a lot of color trends out there, but just find your color, find your color expression, find your color integrity and what makes you happy.

Judith van Vliet: Thank you, Geraldine. I think that was like perfect ending to our podcast. Super, super interesting. I feel completely energized and ready to also just deep dive into everything that you do and some small circles out there. But thank you so much for sharing all of this beautiful content to our podcast.

Geraldine Wharry: Thank you so much for having me. It was my pleasure.

Judith van Vliet: Thank you for listening to another podcast of the Color Authority. I hope you enjoyed it. Please rate, comment and feedback the show. So let us know what you think and next month we will come back to you with another colorful episode.