S7E05 Challenging Color Codes with Studio RENS

In this interview for the Color Authority podcast Studio RENS, the Dutch design duo composed of Renee and Stephanie, discusses their 17-year history of exploring the transformative power of color and material. Their creative synergy relies on a balance between Stephanie’s analytical structure and Renee’s creative, hands-on spirit, a partnership that allows them to embrace the freedom of experimentation without losing focus.

RENS is a design research studio specialized in the applied investigation
of colours and materials. Based in Eindhoven, the Netherlands, we offer
customized designs and valuable insights through a multitude of practices
and services. RENS was founded in 2008 by Renee Mennen and Stefanie van Keijsteren. We pair a precise, almost mathematical approach to design research with hands- on material experiments and a keen eye for color. Across disciplines and in a variety of mediums, we work on collaborative, commissioned or self-initiated projects. 

RENS collaborates closely with clients and partners to get to the heart of the matter (and the color). Previous projects and partnerships with museums, companies, brands, and labels from all over the world include:
Spectrum Design, Piet Hein Eek, Samsung, Auping, Wolfgordon, Lacq, Cor Unum Ceramics, Desso, Tarkett, Moooi Carpets, Lighting Laboratory Leuven, Philips Innovation Services, Canon, Pode, Baars & Bloemhoff, Kruisherenhotel, Design Museum Ghent & Zuiderzeemuseum.

Transcript

Judith van Vliet: Good morning, Studio Rens. Welcome to the Color Authority podcast. And I am extremely happy to finally have you two here on. On my episode number four of 2026. How are you guys?

Studio RENS: We are doing great, thank you. We are happy to be here too.

Studio RENS: Yeah, it's really nice.

Judith van Vliet: It's a good day to talk about color because here in Madrid it's pouring, pouring, and it's great. There's absolutely no sun. So I'm happy to be talking about color because I think color always brings a little bit of sunshine, even though the sun is currently unavailable.

Studio RENS: Yeah, we have very gray weather as well here.

Judith van Vliet: I've been asking the same questions since I think I can't even remember if it's already season three or four. But it's interesting to see all the variety of all the answers that I've been getting. And obviously there's probably two answers in your case, but I would love to know what color is, is for you both, either personally or in your work.

Studio RENS: Well, I think. Yeah, personally and work, I think it comes really together in a way. But for me, and I think it's also the same as for renewal, that color is like, we cannot give it, like in a fixed meaning or that we can say, okay, this is color. But I think color is in our work at least, like movement, it stands for that is always in a change and that, that's a life. So color is everywhere. The world is in color. Everything has color. But. But it's. But the color here now in Eindhoven is way much different than, for example, now in Mexico or when it's gray weather or when it's really sunny when, when it's morning, when it's evening. So it's like moving during the day and it's changing during the day. So you. So I think that's. Yeah, we are in the middle of it and. Yes. So I think.

Studio RENS: And it's an endless source of inspiration for us. I think that because it's never the same and it's always in a movement, it will always give new insights so we can go on on color forever. I.

Studio RENS: You'Ve.

Judith van Vliet: I mean, most people that even if they don't know the studio, I think they will get to know the studio now because it's. It's not just a European reach of the podcast, it's rather global. There's a lot of listeners in North America and a lot of them in South America. So it's very interesting to see that they're going to probably looking at your, at your designs and they're going to understand how important color is for both of you.

Studio RENS: I think.

Judith van Vliet: You'Ve started your studio already quite a while ago. But I mean you're both different. You have quite different tasks within the studio from what I had learned. So what initial professional or creative synergy brought you two together? And also how do you divide you both being different characters, having different obviously ways of looking at color within the studio? How do you pair something that is precise, almost mathematical, if I may say, with more really the hands on experience that you also follow.

Studio RENS: Yeah, I think that's how we work now is different than we started. I think that's quite important to tell you because we started almost 17 years ago to work together as a studio. We graduated both on the Art Academy, me in Breda, on the department Product Design and at school we were friends, of course, and we worked a lot together and I think people. But also we, we noticed that working together was a really pleasant way of making projects. And without like knowing exactly what connected us on the best way, it was just, it felt really nice to do it together. I think we were both like quite good in the process and doing the research part and the start of the project. And then if it went on and went more to the end result, it went always a little bit more difficult or we tried to.

Studio RENS: To avoid this in a way.

Studio RENS: So we were always like more focused on the first few steps in the design process than on the end result. But of course then at that moment you are just doing what you're doing and you're not really noticing why. But later on after our graduation, because that was quite nice, we also did our graduation project together and it was. We were duo at the academy who graduated together, which was quite special. But we also never decided, okay, we will start like this design studio together. But it was more like you're so.

Studio RENS: We were like really connected I think personally, but also in how we, how we work, how we, How we started things, our vision in a way, how we look like into the world of these signs. So I think it was for us it was really logical that we just started and I think that's like also this strong thing, I think of how we work is that of course we have vision, but we just do or we just start and we just make things and explore things and not like with a really clear goal or focus. Of course there is a focus. There is always a focus button next to the focus. There is also a really big space for freedom and.

Studio RENS: A Lot of time. It also starts with, like, just starting with something and follow our intuition and embrace the freedom that we have. And especially because in the art academy, you're so used to all the feedback and the moments that you can talk together. So it would be, like, very weird to just start on your own. So it was kind of logical that we start together without knowing where it would exactly end.

Judith van Vliet: 17 later. 17 years later.

Studio RENS: Yes. And it's also, I think, like, in the beginning, like, if you ask this, then do we have, like, our qualities or is Renee, like, stronger in this? Or I. But. But then I hear it still, then we would say, yeah, no, do everything the same. Yeah, but of course, it's also that you grow, like, into your work also together. And I think now it's really.

Studio RENS: More.

Studio RENS: Clear what's my role like in the studio. And for Renee, I think that I'm. I'm more like the analytic person. So, like, I'm really focused on the. On the root or the plan, like, where we want to go. And I. And N is in our studio. She's way more focused on the hands, on working, like, really more freedom. So. So I think. And that really works really well so that I. I'm more focused on framing, in a way, or making the.

Studio RENS: You have much more, like. You're way more structured, I think.

Judith van Vliet: I love to have somebody who's more structured.

Studio RENS: I love to have chaotic spirit in the studio. And I need stave for the structure and also for, like, having more like, head space. It's like planning everything, but also give everything kind of borders. Because if I don't have any borders or lines, I will go everywhere, I think, and I will never stop. And I think Stephanie is also the one who tells me sometimes, okay, but now we can go on forever. But this is the moment that we can also choose something. And I think it's already there or it's already super beautiful. So, um, yeah, of course, within experiments, that's also kind of difficult. You can always go on forever. So you need someone or you need a moment that you say, okay, let's look at what we did and talk about the things we. We made and then decide on. On that how we go further with.

Judith van Vliet: Sounds like you're very compatible. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Studio RENS: But we. Yeah, yeah, think because it works still really well also. So I think that we are definitely.

Judith van Vliet: Many years yet to come. So that's. At least that's what it sounds like. So you do a lot of projects and research, because I think that's very much of the experiments that you do, and they're founded obviously by questions. I know you work a lot with intuition and obviously there's always an objective and a goal. But I think having conversation with your client is super important before you even obviously start, even if your intuition sometimes is already speaking to you. But what are key questions that you really find important when you have these conversations before starting a certain project? I mean, I think that's also interesting for the listeners to understand.

Studio RENS: Yeah, I don't think it's always about the questions itself. It's more about being in their environment and being in the place or at the factory or really dive in the world of the client. So of course it's important to get to know each other a little bit. But for us it's. It's not about talking, but it's more about being there literally on the spot. See what they are making, how they are making things. Really dive in the process, in the production process. Yeah, so we always, I think the first question is always like, can we go to your world? Can we dive into your world? Can we visit the factory? Just as an open question. Because of course we, A lot of times we don't even know ourselves what we are going to make or what we are going to discover. It's just like it always starts with like an question, can we visit your world?

Studio RENS: Yeah, think it's also, of course it really depends on the project which questions there will be. But I think it's also what's really interesting that we have in a way always focus on the things that. That are already there, but also what's missing.

Studio RENS: Or.

Studio RENS: Or like all the mistakes or the things that they believe it's a mistake or it's not, it's not working well. I think like in all different parts of a process there is there you can.

Studio RENS: They appear, I think during the process. I think all the questions always appear. So we, we are super trustful, I think in that way as well. So we just. If we are for example, somewhere in a factory, we make photos, we film things, we look in the trash. Really it's so easy. Like we really, we are always super interested in like the mistakes, of course, and the health fabrications. Because I think there, there's a lot of story behind it always. So I think. And then the questions appear itself, I think during the process.

Studio RENS: Yeah, and it's, it's. I think what's a really good example is that we worked with Alping in 2016 or something. It's a Dutch bed company and there they gave us like blanche. So. Yeah, so they said, okay, just come and visit us. And we are really interesting what you see or what you notice if you walk around in the factory. And then we were there and they make like all the beds they make on then made on order, so. So they don't have stock. So what you saw like in the factory, because of course they are. They have metal frames, but they also have textile. They have wooden color frame. But you literally saw the colors of the clients moving through the factory, like in all different materials. And there was like. We noticed there was like this. This corner where then the one red fabric also. So. So we were like, okay, but who is this person? Like there came immediately you think, okay, that this person really dare to choose color because. Yeah, who has like a bed in red.

Studio RENS: So especially because everything was like gray and white and bare.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Very neutral, I imagine. But you guys also have something with red, I heard. So you were. Cause Renz was.

Studio RENS: That was why we were so focused on this.

Judith van Vliet: Exactly. Well, red also. I mean, we all know the research behind red captures the eye. I mean, we all know this obviously. I mean, they're still researching obviously the why psychologically. They have certain ideas of it, of course, but indeed, I mean, Rens was founded on your infatuation with the color red. At least that's what I had read. What specific characteristics besides the bed, but also symbolism and distinctiveness do you think that red possesses and made it ideal to obviously build your business upon? Because it's at the beginning. Foundation of your business. The color red.

Studio RENS: Yeah, it started with the color red. Of course, it's not like literally started because we had a few years before the project red where rent was already there. But then we were like so focused on making products. Products because we were of course like graduated as a product designer. And we thought, okay, I would really need to make tables and chairs. Then it really doesn't work. And it was also not. We didn't enjoy it as much as we did like all the research on the Academy. So we also forced ourselves a little bit into something we really didn't enjoy. So we thought, okay, I think we just have to start with something we will be happy with, do it, go back to experimenting, try different things, playing, and don't think about any outcome or any end result or any deadline. So we bought this big bath or pen. Oh yeah, mother's. She.

Studio RENS: She's like into Texas. She had like the pigments and all stuff. And then we really wanted to make like a. A world in One single color. And we just started just by dying everything we saw. Like, so like at the end, it ended up also in our clothes. Those were. We were wearing like, okay, yeah, maybe.

Studio RENS: I can also dye this fabric or my socks or.

Studio RENS: Yeah, like, so it was.

Studio RENS: Yeah, I think we. At that moment we were also like in a bigger studio together with other people. And I think they were a lot of times surprised by seeing us doing this weird experiments without knowing exactly what we were doing. But we are. That's also, I think typically us, we are super driven. So if we think this feels right on a intuitive, intuitive. No, yeah, okay. Level, I think then. Then we really dare to go for it. So we don't have any doubts then about it. We just know no fear. And yeah, so it took us, I think, yeah, we did it for a few weeks at least. We just. It started with fabrics. Then we also dyed boot. We had like this timer next to the pen so that we can also made and like a paper with like signing and make notes of the things we are. The small results. So the whole studio turned out to be red in the end because we did so many experiments. I now forget what the question was.

Judith van Vliet: But what is red really meaning for you? Like, what is a symbol of red for you?

Studio RENS: Yeah. Yes. So that's of course one of the most things that people ask us. It's like this question, what's always there? But we both had the feeling, okay, if we want to make a world in one single color, then it has to be red. And it was just the feeling that we had. And of course, afterwards.

Judith van Vliet: We.

Studio RENS: Got like this question so often, so we had to think about, okay, but why did we choose for this specific color? And it's. And it's because it's a really bold color. You really make like a statement with it. But it's also difficult color in a way. People are. Yeah, not of course always, but a lot of people are scared to use color. Like if you wear it, for example, if I would wear like a red dress or whatever, then. Yeah, then you. Then you really.

Studio RENS: Statements.

Studio RENS: Yeah. Make a statement because then you are there, you know, like in every now you cannot hide.

Studio RENS: I think black. If you wear something black or white or beige, you are. You are a person who can hide easily. But if you wear red, for example, you are there if you want it or not. It's. It's there. And in a way, without knowing exactly why, I think that was also a moment in our career that was very important for us because we were really searching for our place within the design world. So. And then I think you have to do something. And somehow I think that's also what the color red means for us. You really need to stand out. If you want to do something, you need to stand out. So that was for us what the color red was. But still is, because it's the foundation of our studio.

Studio RENS: Yeah, still, I think it's. I think we started with this research and it's still a never ending. Yeah. Story or. Research. I think the things that we do nowadays, I think they're still related to.

Studio RENS: That moment or research project, but it.

Judith van Vliet: Also connects to what you said. Colors are movement. So it's not just one color 17 years ago or in 2016 or even before that. And then it's the same. I mean, except the fact we both, we all three know how many reds exist. And probably there's more being, you know, created each and every day. And I think the interesting point of your studio is that you really emphasize on research, so design research. And that obviously creates innovation because that's why you look in the garbage bin. Because you're looking, you're looking for mistakes. And very often, I mean, I mean, I did the same in my previous jobs. I mean, you always look at what didn't work out or what looks like a mistake and suddenly you're like, but there's something here, you know. So how critical is it for you to focus on this part more than perhaps the finished product? Because I think it's the journey and you definitely are more sometimes focused on the journey than on getting the perfect finished product. So how do you, how do you do this part of the research? How do you seek for innovation? How do you look for new insights during this whole process?

Studio RENS: Yeah, for me personally, it's, it's, it would never be an option to think about the end result if you start with something, because then you will never really make new things. Because if you know what you're going to make in the end, even if it's a little part, then you cannot really enjoy the process. You cannot fully play, you cannot fully do experiments. You will always like, think about a functional part in the end. And for me, it really doesn't work. So it's also the way I'm. Yeah, I am as a person. Maybe I don't know how, but for me, it's no option. And it really not will, it will never help if I think about the end result. Of course, sometimes with clients or assignments or something, you will have a kind of goal in the End. But then I think we are also kind of lucky that we have our portfolio and our DNA of the studio that we have the freedom to always work in a carte blanche kind of setting.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Otherwise they wouldn't work with you, right? No, because they go with another studio. Yeah. But let's say a client says, I want a chair. You still have to create a chair, right?

Studio RENS: Yeah, but. Oh, we. Or we say, yeah, we don't. So that is maybe. I think it's also that, like, if a client really wants to have a chair, then they ask like an other designer who's really good, like into these signing it.

Studio RENS: Yeah. Or it's not about the shape. I can also imagine, for example, if a client would ask for a chair, then we would just using archetype chair. Like the shape will be existing already, just a chair that we all know. And then we are designing the skin or looking at the color or like the shadow, the light that falls on the chair. I think then you are still searching in a different way. So then the chair is not this design piece. We will never like, design the shape.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, right. No, because you really explore color and material. That's really something that's really important to your studio. How do you see that relationship between the two? So the color and the material? And what does it mean to be, as you say, colorful to the core while still maintaining something that's material focused? Some materials already come obviously with their own color. The coloring of a material, how does that work in your process?

Studio RENS: Yeah, I think everything is always a conversation between the color and the material. Because a color is always shown on like a material. A material has always color. So they are always connected and they always already have like a relationship. And I think that we. Work like that's, I think maybe a really good example. Like if we work, for example, really focused on a material, then we would choose one color in this material and like make all new experience with this. So then it's more focused on the material. But of course the color will change also by doing new things. So it's so you.

Studio RENS: You cannot see them separately. No, they're always connected.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, I feel fully agree.

Studio RENS: I think that was also like, if you talk about the project and the starting point of the studio, the project, red. I think that was the moment where we were like, oh my gosh, why is the industry trying to keep all the colors the same? Why would you talk about color codes if like you can never make the same color because the whole time the surface or the material will change. The color itself. So of course, if we put every textile, which is always different, in the same color of red, like red dye, for example, then still every piece will be different. So was also the point where we thought, okay, this is kind of magic. Of course, a lot of people know, and we also knew. But then still, if you are doing it yourself with your own hands, you are surprised by the results of having so much different domes without one within one ingredient or one color. Red.

Studio RENS: Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: When we talk about the dyeing, just like you just, you said, you know, the dyeing is a little bit the work of an alchemist. Of course, I mean, that's obviously where it derives from. How does the original material and the color indeed determine the outcome when you work with liquid dyes or with powered pigments, waters and salts? I mean, as you said, it's always a surprise. But I would imagine, and certain points, some consistency perhaps is necessary. Or is that absolutely not required by your, by your clients?

Studio RENS: Yeah, that really depends, I think, because sometimes it does and sometimes it really doesn't. Because I think it's also what we did for Dark Cat Deso, for example, there we re dyed them leftover materials, and there I think this was exactly what happened. They color like in this factory, they do it always the same and red has to be red and blue has to be that blue, because that's how they work and how they do this. And then we told them, okay, but we want to have it died in different time frames. So then, then you get like all different tones of red for this example. And. But then they, they just got like an error like, huh? But no, we can only like if we diet, then it always has to be this. And now it's like half transparent. And it's not like how we, how we normally, how we normally work. And I think that's, that's for us when it starts, like really, it gets like really interesting. And then we think again, now we got you. Because why has to be always everything how it's supposed to be? You know, because this half. Yeah. Now I just call it like half tones, but of course it's like a tone over red. They were really beautiful. And they were way more, they were.

Studio RENS: Way more beautiful than the clearet that they were used to.

Studio RENS: Yes. So I think it's also. And then afterwards we just convinced them and then they were like, really? Then it was for. Then for them it was also like an eye opener, that there is like way more possible within their technique. But it's like for us now, if I'm telling you like this. Then it's of course it's really. Then you think, yeah, of course it's logic. But for them it was like they.

Studio RENS: Are so used to one way of working. And I think that's also our job is to show industry and especially the production process and the people who are working there that there's much more to discover if you're open, just if you open your eyes and look at the steps in between instead of only the end result. Yep.

Judith van Vliet: It's also changing their perspective and it's storytelling. If you change the storytelling of why each red is slightly different. This is already. Well, obviously for marketing purposes, but yeah, I mean for them it was innovation. For you guys, it's something that you do. So. But it's, it's the conversation again that you have with them. How are your projects different from, for example, working with established names such as Pitajn Egg, also a previous guest on, on the podcast Samsung to perhaps working with a museum or with a very specific brand with a particular corporate identity. I mean, in the end, for example, they want their logo to look the same obviously on each and every printed piece or website. But I would imagine that working with a company, working with an artist or a different, another creative, and then working with public institutions is completely different, isn't it?

Studio RENS: Yeah, it is, but it also isn't for us because I think that we, that our approach is always the same in a way. So of course like the client and the question can be different, but I think the way we work will always, will always be the same. It's just how we are used to work. And I think that's also what I said before. I think it's also why they ask us. So somehow we create the freedom that people ask us for our specific way of working. So if it's about PETA and A or Samsung or if it's about a museum, of course sometimes the time frame can be different or it's not from A to B, but it's just like we skip some steps because the timeframe will be different and we don't have any time to really dive in as deep as we want to dive, for example, but we always dive. We always really zoom in and adapt the information of a company or an industry or whatever. I think in that way it will never be different or not that different.

Judith van Vliet: No, you can't cut the research phase. Even though a lot of clients, when they look at the budget list, they'll be like, oh, can't you just shorten the research I'm like how I still need to get to know you. Right, you still need to.

Studio RENS: Even if there's no budget. Because of course then it happens sometimes that there's not enough budget for us to really dive into the process. I think still we are going to do the whole. Not the whole, but we still do the experiments because we need it as information also to get to know the company. It would be not possible to make something interesting for us without doing this research.

Studio RENS: I think it's also like what's the difference working with such different clients so and also different projects. It's also the difficulty in a way of our studio because it's a quite wide range. So if people ask us like what are you doing like or what do you do for. For living? Then it's not like one sentence that we could say, okay, this is what we do. Because it's also we for one client we are really focused on a color story. Like the other is way more focus on the material research. The other is more like on. On an exhibition or more like a spatial installation. Yeah, like installation or, or it's really like about. Of changing like process in the factory or production. So it's like. So it's wide. Yeah. So it's like a. It's really in different levels. I think we work in. And that's also what we really like.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Studio RENS: And of course we also do self initiated projects. So it's, it's a combination. I think that's the most joyful part in our work is that we combine those things like with working with clients and companies and making more artistic self initiated projects.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah. Your latest ceramics have been called sexy ceramics. I mean I think it's nice when somebody calls your ceramic sexy and dynamic. Discoloration. I mean there's a lot of. I think still the work, the name Discoloration perhaps is still on that edge of do we like it that it's different or do we not, you know, it's. But dynamic already is obviously very, very positive. Could you a little bit explain a little bit more about that process of those beautiful ceramics, those sexy ceramics and how the color research was so central to find. I think that balance as you were speaking about spatial design, of course that balance of creating the discoloration and the color research that was behind it.

Studio RENS: Yeah. So I think the sexy ceramics, it's quite an old project and it's nothing to do with color. So this is like we were asked by this ceramic museum in Leo Water and it's about hide and seek. And it's really more about. About the material without adding any color. So. So I think this is not the.

Studio RENS: It's not about discoloration.

Studio RENS: No, no.

Judith van Vliet: And the.

Studio RENS: I think like the.

Studio RENS: The.

Studio RENS: Think. What's a really good project to talk about in this way? It's like changing perception. I think maybe you meant this. We did like this installation for the Sein Museum gent.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah, that's the one. I mixed them up.

Studio RENS: Yeah. Yeah. And this was. Yeah, I think still personal favorite. Yeah. One of our. Not best insulation, but I think it is. But it was like the opening was.

Studio RENS: On the day everything closed because of COVID Yes.

Studio RENS: So we had like the opening and then the next day it was locked down. So it was a really weird time. And then afterwards it.

Studio RENS: It.

Studio RENS: Yeah, it was open for maybe.

Studio RENS: Few.

Studio RENS: Months, but then everyone was still like a little bit scared and afraid. So this was like really pity because.

Studio RENS: We.

Studio RENS: Worked on it for a really long time. But this was. We just made like an installation where we used all chairs of Martin Bischoff.

Studio RENS: From.

Studio RENS: Spectrum. And then we did like all different tests with textiles and. White lightning.

Studio RENS: So natural light, not natural lighting, but like the more general lightning normally use. So the white light.

Studio RENS: And it's like. So what we wanted to show is like the movement of color. Like in a way where we started, I think this podcast, it's like one color of blue will be totally different in a different. Environment. And lightning is like. Yeah, it's number one that change color in a way. So it's also like, if you like, the lightning in this space has like a lot of influence on a color. So there we made an installation. Where we changed the lightning, and it still was wide light, but it totally changed the colors of the textile.

Studio RENS: So you couldn't see the lightning switch from one to the other. But like within the chairs and the textiles on the chairs, you would like it turned from red to green. So people were like super almost frustrated because they didn't get the whole thing.

Judith van Vliet: They didn't understand.

Studio RENS: No, they really thought that within the fabric there was something with lightning or something that would change. But it was like the surrounding or the light in the environment or in the space that was changing and then the whole. But I think that was also super nice because it. This idea was already in our head years ago. And that was because we were working with Takat and Deso and we wanted. Or we went to the factory and I think at that moment we captured and we saw one testing machine because of course, like, within every Production process. They have, like, this huge space with all different kind of testing machines. And we are always fascinated by that. So we saw this testing machine with, like, separate squares with different artificial lights, white lights, and there they just add, like, the carpet. So it was just. I think it was green carpet as a tryout to see how it will look or how it will appear in different lights. And then it was like, we were like, what's happening here? Because we asked the buyer, what's this? And he explained us, okay, we need to do this, because, of course, they deliver in offices and stuff, so they have different lights in different spaces. And then it could be that this same green carpet would turn from, like, one space, it would be green, and then the other space, if the light would be different. But it was still, like, not a weird light. It was just a white light. It could appear red instead of green. And this was so. Yeah, we were blown away. It was so beautiful that we made a photo of it. And years later, we made this installation based on this first idea or this picture we made back in the days. Yeah. And it was super beautiful, and it still is. So we were.

Studio RENS: Then. I think it's also what's really interesting is the people, like, if you were in this exhibition and the colors are changing, then the first question is, which color is the real.

Judith van Vliet: The real one?

Studio RENS: And then there is no then. Then, like, the answer is, there is never a real color, because it depends on everything. So that was also what we really were like. Okay. Because. Because it was, like, the whole time switching. So then you were also, like, how is it green? Or is it red? Is it green? And then, like, at the end, you thought, yeah, it's maybe both or. Yeah, yeah, it's like, so. Yeah.

Judith van Vliet: But it made people think. And I think that's very much what your studio does. It makes people think, what is your color power?

Studio RENS: Ladies?

Judith van Vliet: Don't say red. No, you can say red. No, you can say red. But.

Studio RENS: No.

Judith van Vliet: Yeah.

Studio RENS: I think that, like, if you talk about color power, then it's. For us, I think it's that you. That you dare to fuse color in a way. So it's not that we have. Okay. This color is, like, for us, color power. But I think that what we really believe in is that there aren't ugly colors or, like, what? Or there aren't, like, matching colors or not matching colors. I think it's. It's always about the connection of colors. And that's also why we really don't believe in. Trending colors like. Or, like, this is now the color of the year, because all colors are always everywhere already. It's like more the marketing that needs to highlight colors. Like, and it's. Of course, it's now it's this. And then 10 years, that corner is back again.

Studio RENS: And it's also the industry, of course, they make every season a new ring of colors. But it's also so weird and stupid. And if you talk about durability, it's like, insane that they do it because if you do this and every company does that, then you have, like, a lot of leftovers, which is like, insane because it costs a lot of money. And it's like, they are still so beautiful, but it's just like laying there in a big hole being ugly, or they tell them that they're ugly at that moment. So it's super weird that it happens because I think it's more that we need to learn how to adapt and embrace the fact that color is always there. And it's just that color always is beautiful. And it has nothing to do with, like, seasons or favorite and trending colors. It's just the way you use it.

Studio RENS: It's also really funny because we are now, like, working on a bed. Textile collection is a totally different thing. But then the. The launch will be in. Yeah. Like a little bit before we intern. Then, like, if you talk about those people who are always working with this trends, they say, oh, but you cannot use a summer colors because it's winter season. And then I'm like, yeah, but who are you? Maybe like, if everyone has this colors, then you have to bring like the summer. Yeah, it's like, so maybe we need.

Studio RENS: This positive colors in winter. Yeah, exactly. They are so scared. Yeah.

Studio RENS: To just do it, like, other than others or. I think it's really stupid to think in that way because it's. You are in need.

Studio RENS: Always. You could.

Studio RENS: Use like an orange or purple or blue or it really. The. Yeah, it's. For me, it's. Yeah. It's a really weird way of thinking.

Judith van Vliet: Color is indeed. It's also so personal, difficult to define it. But yeah. Thank you so much, ladies, for sharing your passion, first of all, because that's, I think, one of the first things that really comes through and talking about your work and your projects and thank you for being part on the Color Authority podcast.

Studio RENS: Thank you. It was super nice.

Studio RENS: Thank you for asking us.