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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
🎙️ Welcome to The SJ Childs Show Podcast! 🎉
Join Sara Bradford—better known as SJ Childs—as she bridges understanding and advocacy for the neurodivergent community. This podcast shines a light on autism awareness, empowering stories, expert insights, and practical resources for parents, educators, and individuals alike.
Brought to you by The SJ Childs Global Network, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting autistic individuals and their families worldwide, this show is your weekly dose of inspiration and actionable ideas. Visit sjchilds.org to learn more about our mission, find resources, and connect with our growing community.
Catch us on platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Goodpods—or tune in Fridays at 8:30 AM EDT on the Helium Radio Network’s Life Improvement Radio (Channel 1). Together, let’s foster a brighter, more inclusive world! 🌟
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https://sjchilds.myshopify.com/
THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
Episode 210-Empowering Children with Differences and Disabilities: A Conversation with Meg Zucker
Ever wished you could empower children with differences and disabilities to thrive? Our guest today, Meg Zucker, author of Born Extraordinary: Empowering Children with Differences & Disabilities, will share with us her inspiring journey and how, through her experiences, she has become an advocate for children with visible and invisible differences.
Join our enlightening discussion as we challenge the common missteps of fear-based parenting and explore the value of mental strength, confidence, and a new era of parenting. Together, we'll unravel the chapters of Meg's empowering book, such as Embracing the New Normal and Take the Bully by the Horns, where she emphasizes the importance of self-reflection for parents and the power of instilling empathy and kindness in our children.
This conversation is an eye-opener to celebrating diversity and learning from parenting mistakes. Listen as we share personal experiences and insights on the strength found within the disability community and the importance of resilience. Learn more about Meg's book, Born Extraordinary: Empowering Children with Differences & Disabilities, and the potential it holds to create a world of understanding, acceptance, and empowerment. Join us and together let's redefine the norm.
Welcome to the SJ Childs Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show. Hello everyone, welcome to August 2023. In just 10 days we'll have the Virtual Autism Summit the 1 and 36 mix. Reach out to me If you have scholarship tickets available for any families you might think could use a ticket and might not be able to afford it. It's $25 for the two-day event. You can go to my pages. You can look up the 1 and 36 mix on a bunch of different social medias. Come and join us. I'd love to have each and every one of you show up and really engage.
Speaker 1:August 11th and 12th, from 10 am to 8 pm, eastern 1 and 36 mix virtual autism event. You will have access to all of the speakers in the community chat. You will have access to the live podcast Autism Dad Embracing Autism, the SJ Child Show and 36 of our amazing autistic presenters. Don't miss it, guys. Reach out to me. Get those scholarship tickets to families in need. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 1:Hi and welcome to the SJ Child Show Today. I'm really looking forward to getting into this conversation. I have a wonderful author and her books are so important. I'm not sure if you have multiple ones, but the ones that you have in your program, because something that is so important to me and my kind of mission I think my whole life has been seeing children. Empowering children, like really wanting them to see their value and understand that, just because they're them, that is what brings their value to this world. It's so important when we see people on this journey that we help, support one another and it just brings about such a beautiful sense of community. Thank you so much for being here today, meg Of course it's a pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really exciting to have you here. Meg Zucker. She is the author of and of course, I blank out when everything's not in front of me. I'm going to let you tell the story about everything, and maybe an introduction and what you got you started into being such an amazing advocate.
Speaker 2:So I'm the author of Born Extraordinary Empowering Children with Differences and Disabilities. I'm also the president and founder of Don't Hide it Flunted, which is a 501c3 nonprofit organization, and we focus on, essentially, acceptance and empathy and we do a lot of social emotional learning programs for people of all ages across the country, and we've been around since 2015,. Although this is my first book, I've been writing for the past 12 years in magazines and newspapers and done some TV as well.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic and it's really cool when we can find these mediums to share our passions and help educate others. Tell us about kind of growing up and what part of the world are you at.
Speaker 2:So well. First of all, I was born with a genetic condition called extradactily, which means I have one finger on each hand, shortened forearms and one toe on each foot, and it's a condition that I passed along to two of my three children. I was born in Illinois, but then I was raised in the Middle East and South Asia, and in fact, a lot of the stories that are in the book follow me abroad, not just in the United States, and so you know my, my focus in terms of this book and why I wrote this book was because my parents really well, I also had brothers, but they and my brothers were not born with my genetic condition. It didn't end with me, though. I have three children, two of which share it.
Speaker 2:My focus and intention was, since my parents did such a great job in raising me, but they didn't write a guide book, I'd like to write down exactly the types of things, thoughts of wisdom and other nuggets of good stuff, but also mistakes, that even I made, even though I'm the one that gave birth to my difference. The other thing that's really important about the book is that it's not just my story. So it's a story, or it's a parenting guide, if you will, but it includes the stories of at least 30 other parents of children with visible and invisible differences and disabilities that it was really important that anyone that picks up this book, while thematically well, while we don't all share one another's experience with being different or disabled, thematically the book is there to lend a supporting hand to those parents and then, ultimately, to empower their children.
Speaker 1:So important too, we really find. My two children are artistic and my husband and I. I understand, like you said, how we have to sometimes prepare more than just ourselves and our kids. I thought of it as preparing my kids' peers and the neighborhood kids, so that's what started me in writing my books too, is that idea that if they can get a little bit more understanding through their friends and the people that they grew up with, then hopefully everybody can be more supportive of those things that they need more support with. It's been so wonderful to see the growth that the children have when they get the knowledge that they need, and a little quote that we like to say is just a little bit of knowledge turns fear into understanding, and kids I love that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting. My first chapter is called embracing the new normal, and I talk about how the opposite of hate sorry, the opposite of love is not hate, it's actually fear. And every as a parent, every misstep, or even as a person who's physically different, every mistake that I've made really was rooted in fear. And so and I talk about that in the first chapter, which is called embracing the new normal, so that first chapter is really designed before a parent turns to empowering and supporting their kids probably not in that order they really have to do a check in on themselves. And how are they doing? What's their mental strength? Are they fear-based parenting? And if they are, then helping them lead them through that and past it? Because how can we possibly expect that type of level of mental strength and confidence from our children if we haven't achieved it ourselves?
Speaker 1:So important and it's really important that we I think this new era of parenting is so fantastic. In fact, this exact this episode is in the Purposeful Parenting series, so perfect place for it to be, because it's so important that we don't look as much at who our kids are going to be, what are we going to make them into, kind of like I felt like our parents were accustomed to do for us. And it all comes down to, you know, generations and generations of teachings and they were taught what they were taught. We were, you know, got what we got out of it and decided whether or not we were going to repeat it or not repeat it. And I don't know about you with your ages, of your kids. I have a 23-year-old stepdaughter and then a 13 and 11-year-old and, believe me, that 23-year-old, bless her heart, got all the mistakes made. You know, I kind of narrowed out what wasn't working anymore in parenting and what I didn't know, I guess. And now I know better, now I can do better right With what I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean so my kids right now are. I have a junior in college and a high school senior and a high school sophomore. But you know, in terms of what you were saying before, you know the the, there's a chapter at the end, right before the additional words of wisdom, which is all those other parents a lot of them have contributed, and also throughout the book. But you know, I I started don't hide it, flaunt it are, you know, my nonprofit. It's not even mine anymore, I mean it's, it's bigger than me in a good way. But I started it because Ethan, our son, was bullied on the playground for being different when he was in first grade and again he's a junior college now, so it's a long time.
Speaker 2:And I started to do social emotional learning programs because I felt there was a real hunger in the classroom environment for teachers to not just focus on kids like my son, who was different, but also what about the kids that were willing to taunt him?
Speaker 2:And that sort of brings me to. You know you were talking about other kids and you know, even though this Chapter is called take the bully by the horns, b, ul dash Y, even though that's the title, I really actually focused on the concept of friendship in that goal. You know there's a lot of signs on the wall or posters Be kind, choose kindness. It's not a bad thing to be kind, it's a good thing to be kind. But you know, when you're living the life in the shoes of a kid that's different or disabled, I think that falls flatter. And in fact you know it's not, it's inadequate, because you know if another parent says to their child, you know, be kind to Ryan, you know, then to me that just means they can smile at them or not in the hallway and that's kind, they're just not being me and that's all the kid hears, and but that Ryan needs a friend, ryan needs kids to play with on the weekends and invite to a birthday party, and so that's what's so important in this, in this space.
Speaker 1:I love that. Define what the kindness means to find action that they can take, solution finding right, and they need that.
Speaker 2:And that's that's the problem we do is is is teaching the other kids that they have the right level of, or they they can understand that they'll. They might not share the same condition or experience with the other kid. It doesn't mean that based on something about themselves or their family, they don't like to be judged. So even if they don't have the same thing, they can feel the same way. And once you start teaching kids that, that sort of bridges things and so you can build that friendship. And it's not just about kindness. Again, to me it's a good thing. It's just inadequate in this, in this regard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. I think that just having posters up or not really like teaching our kids how to communicate with the other students in asking questions, if they are curious, and in in a kind manner and more. It's all about the education behind it and what they need to know so that they can make the right choice. And if they have the information and they're still making the wrong choices, then maybe something needs to be in place, and it's so. It's great that you said that, because I kind of in a panel they were asking about well, what do you think should be done? You know, in behavior, when behavior is bad things, and I kind of have like this outside the box thinker idea Okay, I think it's really guilty as charged.
Speaker 1:What about kindness? What if we put in kindness in place? What if, if you get in trouble, you have to do five acts of service and you have to, you know, write some, find you know what an actor that you're fond of, and start there, start with somebody you really like and then build on that. Now, okay, well, now add five more students that you might be friends with in the school, write about them and how you could be kind or something. And what if we practiced so much kindness instead of punishment that it changed the way they started thinking? And instead of rebel, rebel, rebel, you know, kind of in this vicious cycle.
Speaker 2:I think, look, I mean, I think to your point not every kid anyway responds in the same way to consequences. Some kids, you know, really that teaches them a lesson, and the other ones just get mad about it and yeah, whatever they have to do. You know, I think that's an interesting point and suggestion and always moving the needle is a good thing. I would, I would agree with you on that but dig deeper, beyond just acts of kindness, like I said, and just have that kid really really more. You know, that's why we do our, our programming for kids, where we ask them to write or do art with a theme, the things that make me different, make me me, and ask them to be vulnerable about themselves and really think through that and maybe even opportunities to share, because I do agree, I think, I think it's that's a positive way of moving the needle.
Speaker 2:But you know those kids in terms of their true nature, who they are, what they are like. To me, I think if we haven't, if we haven't sort of made them hold up a mirror and really think about themselves, then I think we could be a little bit in danger that those wonderful, kind acts will just be like what they are in a given moment and they won't have a long-term impact. I know this sounds weird, but like even on that kid's soul, that's so true, that is so true.
Speaker 1:I think you're right about the introspection. They need to really take a look inside themselves and find those vulnerabilities. To understand how safe or unsafe those things make them feel is the same way they're making someone else feel as well. So, such a great point what kind of things do you guys do at the nonprofit? Sounds like you do the program, go around the schools and do programs and things.
Speaker 2:Yep, so well, let's start. That was our flagship program. Where it turned into. I piloted it after Ethan, our son, was bullied on the playground, but it turned into a national program. So that is something we continue to do, those kind of programs. So there was also a project Flont programs, we call them in middle schools and high schools, but we've also done programs at Boys and Girls Clubs. We are a coalition member with the Elizabeth Dole Foundation to create programming for families of disabled veterans. We do I also, and we do a lot of diversity, equity and inclusion programming in Fortune 500 companies, but for the staff, as well as programming for the staff and kids like take your kid to workday programming. So what turned? What was triggered by a very negative incident my son being bullied actually blossomed into a lot of positive and I'm really proud about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting. How that happens often is that we turn these events that are traumatic, unfortunately, for our kids or ourselves, and we have an idea that helps others in the future to not hopefully have to go through that same trauma. And yeah, it's hard, it's. We always want to know, especially as parents, how to best protect our kids in that moment and what can we teach them, what can we instill in them? You can only do so much. You can't be in control of them or the other kids around them at all times. So, yeah, so that is really tricky. What type of? I had this great question, but then I just was listening too hard and it blanked out of my brain. That's a great thing, I think. No, it's not. What? Oh, that's what it was. What type of accessibility do you need for your family and things like that? Is there any other support needs that you have in place that you look for? Maybe in the community that could do better.
Speaker 2:Well, for my family, we don't have any needs like that. We are quite self-sufficient. It doesn't mean I can play the flute, so I guess, but I did play the trombone for years and so, yeah for sure, yeah, no, look, I was raised by parents that helped me realize I was living in my own version of normal, capable of doing anything and everything within my means. I certainly know that there are people that leverage things like prosthetics and things like that, and there's nothing wrong with that. We just have, I think, that it's a very individualized sort of need. But for our family I'm just trying to think, if there's anything but truly there's not, it's just we happen to physically look different and have to manage it. And in fact my book, after Embracing the New Normal, the next couple of chapters one is building their dignity, because when you're living your life as if you're a fish in a bowl with everyone staring, it's really working with the kids to sort of build up that sense of self. And then and so to me those are the types of it's not about having accessibility needs, but just sort of needs in this sort of mental strength and emotional strength. And then in the third chapter it's called Let Go and Let Live and that really is about. Of course, we all want to protect our children, but we don't want to overprotect them, and so it's really focusing with parents about how to navigate that, but again, based on that dreaded fear. You know, if we're prone to that as a parent, then we're gonna raise very stifled kids. So those are the kind of things.
Speaker 2:So I hope I've answered your question. Yeah, absolutely yeah, I mean actually, and I wrote about it in the book. When I was very little, my parents took me to a place in Chicago, an institute, to try and put a prosthetic on me and I was adamant, like I hated it, and I threw it across, I hurled it across the room and it was not for me and you know I finally my parents gave up and we left. And it's not to say again that those kind of assets are not great for people that need them. I think you know. But I talk about the fact that I think sometimes, you know, parents should be cognizant of the fact that you know, listen to your kid, you know, is this something you think they need or is this something they actually need? And they'll probably be very vocal about it once they are vocal, and that might change, it might evolve. I am positive, though if very early on, you make that decision for them, then they're going to be dependent on it.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's a good point For me.
Speaker 2:I never had to do that because I knew what I was capable of, and so it never even occurred to me to offer things like that to Ethan and Charlie or our sons who share my condition. I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that and I think it's exactly like you said, kind of living in a new normal.
Speaker 1:But if we really look back at our entire history, diversity is what we are, that's how, what we're all like. We are all so diverse, like none of us are the same, and so it's embracing that rather than, you know, pathologizing it and making it some some horrible thing. But I think I love that about the disability community is it may be a little bit sectored into, you know, autism, physical disabilities and that such, but I really have found a kind of friends and with so many places and so many parts and so many different support systems along the way, like Mindy we you know, we're saying I had the honor of interviewing her last year and just being able to watch and follow like the inspiring things that can come about from you know, something that might look to someone else like a struggle and you really take it in. As a parent really have to teach our kids that resilience so that, like you said, they have that within them to grow and do that. So how, how is college going now then for those guys?
Speaker 2:One of the things I was going to say is because you touched on something really important and I hope you read the book.
Speaker 1:Please, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:But you know, but important, extraordinary, you know. One of the things I talk about is how I I probably did a little bit of a misstep in terms of communities, you know, for my kids, like I, I never had that grown up. I also lived abroad, in the Middle East and South Asia, so it wasn't different yeah.
Speaker 2:But even when I was in the United States, it wasn't available and there wasn't any. I'm dating myself. There wasn't the internet, there wasn't anything like that. And so you know I write about in the book about you know the importance of of that. I think it was a missed opportunity.
Speaker 2:I see these, you know whether it's through social media or the, you know the safe groups of people that you can connect with. And you know whether and even it's not only on social media. I see they have picnics once a year or whatever they're doing, or events and kids get to connect and the level that they would otherwise not experience. I thought for our family, I'm like, well, my boys have me so they don't need that. But you know, in the book I talk about how Ethan's like, yeah, mom, I would have been curious, I'd never had a friend that looked like me or whatever. And you know, in that sense, I, I, it was a big misstep for me, and so you know I'm. I write about that because I think it's important for people to know where I screwed up, not just the things I'd recommend based on it.
Speaker 1:I think it's where we get our most wisdom from people is those ideas, because if somebody else has gone through it and they've said this is don't do this, then we have a better idea and might go into it a little more cautiously than if we're just like do do, do you know? Not knowing any of that. So I completely agree and yeah, at the beginning I mean for us it was a lot different because it was more. I mean, obviously my kids were born with the outer ear microchip, but it's not as I mean it is did affect me in my whole life.
Speaker 2:But, you know, I have a parent that's a contributor, with a son that has that condition in the book. Yeah, oh, really yeah so you really do cover everybody, and you know it's almost like you have to.
Speaker 1:You have to understand that everybody's on their own journey and things affect people so differently across the board. People have different ways they process their feelings, or they process society, for that matter, and so, yeah, I think that giving all this great information is so valuable and so inspiring. Thank you so much. Yeah, where can we go to find the book and all of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just want to say thank you for having me. I really appreciate it, I'm very grateful. So you just go to megzuckercom M-E-G-Z-U-C-K-E-Rcom. That's my author website and it has everything from media appearances to about the book will show. I mean, you know it's available anywhere and everywhere, certainly Amazon and you know Walmart and Target and Barnes, noble and all that kind of stuff. So I personally recorded the Audible. Oh, awesome, yeah. So a lot of people are, I find, excited about that, because people tend to be backing, you know, post COVID back in cars more than they used to be and it just, you know, something that passes the time. So I'd be delighted if your audience, you know, want to check out Born Extraordinary and Post-A-Review and let me know how you like it.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent. I hope that they will as well and I will be. So it's been such a pleasure to have you on today too and connect with you. I just you know, at the beginning of our journey with autism it was very isolating and lonely and just not knowing many people, like you said, not having other families to lean on, and I kind of created that. I started making Facebook groups so, like you said, kind of through social media and such, but now it's just brought me this amazing opportunity through podcast and everything. So what a pleasure it is to be able to connect with you and it's just been so much fun. So thank you for your time today and I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I've got to make it work Schedules right. They can be tricky those things sometimes. Well, you have a fantastic day. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you, sarah, thank you.
