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THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
🎙️ Welcome to The SJ Childs Show Podcast! 🎉
Join Sara Bradford—better known as SJ Childs—as she bridges understanding and advocacy for the neurodivergent community. This podcast shines a light on autism awareness, empowering stories, expert insights, and practical resources for parents, educators, and individuals alike.
Brought to you by The SJ Childs Global Network, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting autistic individuals and their families worldwide, this show is your weekly dose of inspiration and actionable ideas. Visit sjchilds.org to learn more about our mission, find resources, and connect with our growing community.
Catch us on platforms like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Goodpods—or tune in Fridays at 8:30 AM EDT on the Helium Radio Network’s Life Improvement Radio (Channel 1). Together, let’s foster a brighter, more inclusive world! 🌟
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https://sjchilds.myshopify.com/
THE SJ CHILDS SHOW-Building a Community of Inclusion
Episode 216-Redefining Neurodiversity: A Journey with Dr. Nicole Tetreault
Are you ready to challenge traditional views on neurodiversity? This episode with Dr. Nicole Tetreault, a dynamic neuroscientist, will reshape your perspective. A personal revelation, sparked by her mother's Parkinson's diagnosis, led Nicole to pivot from a conventional career to a mission in neuroscience communication. She walks us through her fascinating journey, unveiling the power of focusing on strengths over deficits in the neurodiverse community and how she is using this paradigm-shifting approach to write her book on neurodiversity.
Nicole doesn't stop at just reshaping perceptions. She's on a mission to transform how we design our societies, workplaces, and especially our education systems to better cater to neurodiverse thinkers. Imagine classrooms designed to foster emotional connection and safety, where students have various modes of communication, production, and access to information. Nicole argues for a radical shift from rote memorization to intellectual, creative, emotional, physical, and sensorial pursuits. She reveals how this can revolutionize learning for neurodiverse individuals.
But Nicole's vision doesn't stop with neuroscience and education. She is also passionate about providing free resources to the public and designing meditation programs for natural nervous system regulation. She talks about her exciting upcoming projects — an executive functioning summit, a meditation course, and a retreat. Plus, we get a sneak peek into her forthcoming Bright Mind Study Guide. All of this is part of her mission to reassure people that they are okay just as they are. So, join us as we explore Nicole's inspiring work and find out how you can support her initiatives at Awesome Neuro. This episode promises to be a beacon of hope, encouragement, and transformation.
Welcome to the SJ Childs Show, where a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. Enjoy the show. Hello and thank you so much for listening to the SJ Childs Show. I'm so grateful to have you as a listener and I want you to reach out to me if you have any show ideas, guests you'd like to invite, if you want to be a guest yourself, or if you want me to give any shout outs to you or anybody else, any businesses that you prefer or that do a great job in the community, and I just want you to know that this is a community I want to build with all of us together. So if you ever have any ideas, please, please, please, reach out to me. You can reach out to me by email at sjchildshow at gmailcom. You can find me on pretty much all social medias, and if you Google SJ Childs, there's about five pages worth of SJ Childs stuff to find. So come and find me. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining the SJ Childs Show today. I'm so excited to have this conversation with Nicole. I'm going to let you pronounce your last name. Thank you for being here today.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. That's Nicole Tetreault
Speaker 2:Thank you, and you know you told me before but my listening skills it's better if I'm like phonetically, have it written down and then I can practice those things. So nice to have you here today and I'm looking forward to talking about the company that you have, the mission that you're on and all the information that goes along with it. It'll be a great discussion for everyone. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me and thank you for the work that you do, oh great.
Speaker 2:It's been such a nice way to build community, which has been so rewarding for all of us and in feeling like you know, we have this family that we can count on, and I know that my listeners are so appreciative of the amazing guests that I can bring and all the valuable information. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you here today.
Speaker 3:Well, by luck and chance, we both are great friends with Harri O'Kelly and she's really kind of a, I would say, a gifted autism light shining kind of advocacy and awareness in our community, in our society really. And I happened to be working on my first book, which is all about neurodiversity, and I met Harry and I felt that she was an ideal person that I wanted to interview and interact with and talk to. Being a neuroscientist is my background, so I came into neuroscience with really the deep intention to reduce suffering in life. My mother was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, which is a neurodegenerative disease, and it really spearheaded and kind of lit a fire inside of me to want to really understand the brain, cognitive diversity and to really bring voice to people who are voiceless or who tend to be minimized in our society. And through my studies, towards the end I did get my PhD and I was studying autism in the you know, kind of at the cusp of really when the neurodiversity movement was really taking shape in a new way, where, from a scientific perspective, there was so much in the research, in the studies, in the aim of the studies to really focus on the deficits and to think about ways that we need to fix people and fix their brains Rather than flipping it and saying, well, wait, what's a different way to look at this and see the strengths?
Speaker 3:And so, really, right, when I was finishing, at that point my mother was in her very late stages of Parkinson's disease and I had a real shift. I had a great job lined up. I was going to be, you know, kind of fast-tracked and I decided to take a different direction and I really wanted to become a science communicator and I wanted to share really the most positive, life-changing neuroscience studies and positive psychology. I really wanted to share that with people and offer them that doorway where they can use science in their advocacy, they can use it in their understanding and in their level of comfort to say I'm okay. And that really kind of shifted my mission.
Speaker 3:And as I did that, you know my son a couple years later was in third grade and he was identified as gifted and I saw that he had these really different ways of receiving and processing the world.
Speaker 3:And I took a deep dive into the work of James T Webb, the founder of the Social, emotional Needs for Gifted and Great Potential Press, and I started really researching the neuroscience of neurodiversity and in that, you know, I read thousands of papers and I started speaking and talking about it and then from there I really wanted people kept saying can you write a book, can you write a book? I really want this information and so, really, the book was born out of the desire of people really wanting concrete science and understanding and I was really lucky to meet many brilliant individuals along the way, where I interviewed them and shared their stories of what you know it looks like in the brain and then what it looks like in our behaviors and what it looks like on the individual soul level of people who are struggling in society, being otherized, being kind of neglected, pushed aside, and really wanting to shape the dialogue, to see the strengths within this population.
Speaker 2:It's so important too that I have to take in all that you said. It was so great. It's so important when we really can give our kids and our teens direction in the way that's best for them, when we learn to follow their lead, and I think that has a lot to do with that Letting yourself be open to the idea of changing your path, changing your idea of what the future might look like. Because, especially in working with you know and raising near diverse children, flexibility is your best friend and it seems so ironic sometimes that, yes, there's like this, craving for stability and for schedule and things, but the idea of having the flexibility within those confines and boundaries is so important for really, like you said, strength building rather than deficit on look you know, and kind of teaching kids that it's really great to build with their strengths in their challenged areas, which is so funny.
Speaker 2:I think we've came from different, different angles and that I wrote children's books about and trying to teach the children and in my kids class.
Speaker 2:These are the things, how you can support them. This is what dyslexia looks like and if it's something that you can identify with, here's how to ask for help and it's getting these ideas in front of the right audiences, in front of the right people that really are searching for this information, and these little kids don't know they're searching for this information. This is just hopefully character building for them for the future in moving forward, that these you know more typical peers, or even your diverse peers, will really be able to either support or identify with the children around them. So I love that it's we have that same idea of that's how we're going to fix things and we have a little quote that I think you'll like. That is a little bit of knowledge can turn fear into understanding. It carries so much weight and getting that little bit of an understanding about a disability or you know something can help move mountains and give that person that I you know, being seen, being cared for, being treated with dignity is so important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I love a few things you said and I think you know the. The first thing is that communication. You know when you are offering, so you're offering through children's books, you're offering a doorway for a child to see there's other ways to exist. Then what I've been taught, what I've been told and, oh my goodness, I can communicate with others about this, hopefully in a safe way.
Speaker 3:And the second part that I think you know, that is really important, that what you're saying is with a little information, you know understanding comes in. But when that understanding comes in, what really comes in is compassion, where we see the other human being as a fellow being, rather than seeing that kid who's having a tantrum in the classroom that may not be known to anybody, that the lights are activating their nervous system, that that trigger is causing pain for them and at the core of that outburst the truth of it is there's suffering. And when we can begin to see that behaviors aside from using the terminology of cry for help, but a behavior is really a root cause of an emotional state and a thought state that is happening. And so the sooner that we can teach children through what you're doing the books to be able to identify and communicate, the sooner that they begin to a soothe themselves and be communicate with others, and and create compassionate communication and connections.
Speaker 2:And that was so important for me, knowing that my children with dyslexia and autism, adhd and anxiety all of the things were going to be able to be understood. Now, unfortunately, you're always met in society with people that don't have the process or the ability to have these resources taught to them, and all of the classrooms don't have the books and that, and so there there is definitely a lack of information. But that's why we're doing things like this today really being able to impact and show a different audience and be able to get across to a whole new level of thinkers. How do we best improve the world for neurodiversity and for neurodiverse thinkers, like you said, instead of just pointing out the deficits like what is what does that new world look like? What kind of steps do you want to take in your you know path to do that?
Speaker 3:Well, I think when we begin to design a classroom and class and design societies and workplaces based on the idea of universal design, where things are acceptable and accessible to all people, so you know that really started with the movement of creating that for people with physical disabilities in terms of having walkways that are for ease. But when you think about a simple classroom, you know offering students different ways to receive information, through having audio books versus textbooks, to having books on a kindle where you could change the font size change you could have the book read to you. So when you do that, you open the way individuals can learn. And we know that learning happens specifically through an emotional connection. So the child and adult needs to first of all feel safe in the environment. And so when we're creating classrooms that you know could be causing triggering the nervous system for any sensory input, when we're doing that, the first level of safety has kind of been pulled out. So then when we begin to have the awareness of creating classrooms with soft lights, you know offering stations where there's a quiet station, maybe there's a station where you have children who like producing their work through verbalizing.
Speaker 3:You know, I think, a standard test.
Speaker 3:You know when we're requiring a child who has dyslexia and dysgraphia to hand write something, you're not going to get their best product.
Speaker 3:But if you offer them ability to verbalize their answer, record it, use voice to text, all of these things, when you think about it, are actually free.
Speaker 3:It just has to do with how we design the classroom for different production and communication styles, you know, and I even think for people who are extremely nonverbal at some points, you know, offering different modes where they could communicate through art, you know. So it's really us changing the idea of the educational system to be set on this rote memorization and standards which in some ways are really outdated, you know, and when we begin to kind of think about education being an engaging level of intellectual, creative, emotional, physical and sensorial pursuit, when you give children the right level of engagement same thing with adults at work you really are having the best products of an individual. And I think you know it comes in the line of when you think about the three stages that one can work. You know, there's the zone of competence, the zone of excellence and the zone of genius, and really our goal in society is to get people into that zone of genius and really nurturing their natural strengths and bringing in supports when needed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and offering all of these tools, especially like you said. I mean, I'm just like envisioning this perfect center that is, you know, ideal in all these ways that you're mentioning, and you can even think of even physical ways. I was thinking like standing desks for those who need that extra room for movement, and things like that. There's just, there's so many more ways that we can access the ability to engage our kids, especially with not only considering all of their sensory needs but also looking at interest based learning. Wouldn't that be fantastic, you know, if we could really center around that to support all the different ways. Like you're saying, through art.
Speaker 2:I was reading a story about, excuse me, a child who was making art and they were a non verbal and their pictures were scary or something, and someone had complained and I thought, well, that's just silly. That child is expressing their feeling about how they're, how they're feeling and like they should be praised. You know they should be like, supported in that. And oh, let's under. Let's find the underlying cause of what's making them seek to to express themselves this way. Well, it's obviously because they're trying to express a feeling that they're having, and I I find that, in accepting that and flourishing that within your child is so much better than diminishing or, you know, trying to put a stop to it, and I maybe that's the way of old thinking that hopefully will. We will change in the future. Where do we need to change these things like what is the level at what we are going to make an impact in the educational system?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the example you gave is so important for a lot of things, right, when you think about a child who could verbalize and say I'm upset, x, y and Z happened. Or actually I really love zombies and I love, I love activating my level of fear and I like exploring it, you know. So I want to step back a little bit because when we talk about brainwiring, when we talk about human uniqueness, really when it comes down to it, each of us has our very own unique brain patterning, like a fingerprint. And when we come back and we think about the story you're talking about the child who is sitting there and drawing disturbing quote unquote images. I think, as adults and as people who are curious beings, that asking what's going on, what is this all about, what does this mean to you?
Speaker 3:And to also have the awareness horror movies do exist, you know there's a giant subculture of entertainment and exploration and, if I'm not totally incorrect, I feel like the author who wrote, for example, interview with a vampire wrote it based in memory of the death of her son. And so, through art and through expression, we find ways to convey story about suffering. And the biggest way we share stories is through art being, music, being art, being. You know written accounts, oral accounts, and when you think about that, storytelling is the number one way that we create community and connection, because all of a sudden, somebody says, ah, so, just like me, this is, this is an experience I have. I'm afraid of zombies, I'm afraid of being alone at night, whatever it may be, and also know you know, coming back to that unique fingerprint that some people's fear centers are differentially regulated. You know they looked at, for example, the brain of Alex Hannell, the famous climber, who did the climbing of the Yosemite, and he did it freestyle and doing that climb, his fear centers were different than the average person, he didn't take in fear, and at the same time, he has an incredible visual map of El Capitan in his brain for move by move by move. And so when we begin to shift our storyline and so you're asking me, coming back to education, when we begin to shift our storyline of what education looks like for a child. You know, having a child do what they love earlier on, the sooner they'll hone in on the natural skills and what it takes for them to do that, and it also gives them a lot of airy to explore. If you're putting a child in a room where they're forced to do 25, 35 math problems and they've shown you they already know how to do the first three, that's good enough and they want to sit there and they want to write their creative stories or they want to create their music. Let them. And so I think it's really an education offering natural acceleration for where children grow and thrive and really shifting. And I think the challenge we live in, unfortunately, is that, a educators aren't paid enough period and I just think that it's a huge disservice. B I think they don't have enough support for what they need to be doing, to do differential education and creating these sort of pods. So it's really.
Speaker 3:It comes from the system where in our society, educating our children is the number one priority. You know, I'll disclose to you that I was in my younger years with my son at school and there was a note going around oh, our public schools are having a meeting about this, and we were a private school at the time. Somebody wrote back in the email. And this is the problem in our society. They said why do I care about what the public schools are doing? My kid is in private school and you know, I thought, boy, you're missing A the boat on a very simple thing, aside from being a decent human being and caring about other people and living in society, is that if you have a selfish inclination, you better realize that in 20, 30 years, 50 years, when you're retired, all of these children are going to be voting and dictating the rights you're living in in society.
Speaker 3:So you better hope they're freaking educated and make the best possible decision for all beings. And so that's what it comes down to. Is that? I think even in the education system there's elitism that we struggle with. You know, I'm here in California and we have obvious pockets where there is money filled in one school and one district, and then there's classrooms that are absolutely depleted, not even having books, and so I think that this is a huge problem that we're in and it's not going to be solved by one human being. It's going to be solved by society and people really recognizing that free education, equal education, is accessible for all beings and by doing so we better all society.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and give everyone the opportunity to be part and grow as a part of that society, as I understand, kind of feeling isolated in some ways. You know, tj wasn't, it was first grade. I think that they said, well, we don't have options for algebra in first grade, like sorry, and it was so defeating for me to think, oh my gosh, how could this education system, with these educators who have college degrees I know they can do algebra Like maybe they don't love it, but you know they've already got past this Like why can't there be a system or a school or a place for him? And of course, that's you know kind of where we start as parents and on these missions to find the right advocacy, find the right places where our children are understood. We hear these stories, like you said, where we can identify yes, I'm going through that so much and it's so important to you know in that moment, look at all that you have and know that you're helping on different levels Because I know how I have, as mentoring others, learned so much in that process and really had to sharpen my skills and what I was going to provide skills or resource building for them.
Speaker 2:And then you think, wow, how did I get to where I'm at and thank goodness for the people who have helped me to get here. And it's such like this chain, you know, events that work down, that really help build this community and now, like I said, going into more of the gifted community and not leaving the autism community, of course, you know, because that's just where I've like found my roots but to really understand that there's still more that can be done, there's still more resources that I can find, even though I kind of felt like I was just, you know, up against the rock in the hard spot for the longest time. So it's incredible that there are now these amazing resources. Tell us about the company, the awesome, and what that looks like and what you guys do there, and that's such an important resource for the community.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so with awesome neuroscience, a lot of the work that I do and our team does is we do free education. So in terms of we offer free writings, I do a lot. So on my website you can read a lot about giftedness and different ways that individuals process. We also offer a lot of resources in terms of videos where we kind of talk about these different things. And then, yeah, more recently, what we're doing is creating actually a training and advocacy program that is meant to be shared with parents and educators and that is going to look a little bit different because it's going to offer some CEUs and it's really based on my book.
Speaker 3:We're getting this kind of information into school systems to parents, where they could really process and sit down and say what is an educational plan, what's the difference between an IEP and a 504?, and just these little things. And then, how do I tell people what neurodiversity is? How do I talk to my family, how do I talk to my parents, and so this is going to be much more structured as a class and really centered on training. And then a lot of what I do is I speak with a lot of schools and really my intention is to shift the dialogue and communicate the brain strengths. And then another avenue that I am developing and working on is creating a lot of meditation programs for neurodiverse families for any family really and for kids to offer ways for naturally calming the nervous system. I'm a huge meditation and advocate for different types of meditation, and so really offering this is a doorway for emotional and mental regulation.
Speaker 2:So, so important. I think that wow, it just takes me back to one of the children's books I wrote was about anxiety and that was my story as a child is having anxiety all the time and having to teach myself how to do breathing exercises and I teach that in the book and how you really have to be understanding not only of what's happening in my body, like why is my heart pounding, why is my chest feel like this, why is my stomach aching and little kids or children don't understand those biological effects that are happening to them. They have a hard time identifying, unless they know, of course, what it means to have that. But I think it's so important that we teach those ways to regulate because those are the life skills that are going to impact the rest of their lives and the rest of their relationships and connections with people. So very important yeah.
Speaker 3:And I mean I think that's the number one thing you know there's showing now there's been over 16,500 stories studies on meditation and how really meditation has offered such a doorway to reduce people having to take medication for anxiety. No, not in all cases, but I think it's really important that when we teach people to watch the mind, to train the mind, we can really rewire our minds for positive neuroplasticity and live in a place of love versus fear. And that's kind of my big mission is for people to really know that they're exactly okay where they are and there isn't anything that they need to change or do differently. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true. This might be so silly, but hopefully families that are listening can appreciate and understand. There was like a young Sheldon episode.
Speaker 1:Have you seen that?
Speaker 2:where the boy is gifted, you know. And so he goes to his pastor. He's extremely logical and so he completely doesn't believe in religion, but he goes with his family, you know. And he asked the pastor, like I don't understand why I can't be more like Einstein. I'm trying these things, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, but I just can't do it. And the pastor says to him well, do you think when you get to you know the judgment or whatever you're going, he's going to wonder why weren't you more like Einstein, sheldon? He's going to say why weren't you more yourself? You were supposed to be you, you're yourself. I just I'm not even a religious or anything. I just thought that was the most beautiful thing. What a great lesson to just say that there's no expectations for you to be another person. The more yourself and authentic you can be, the more amazing opportunities that will come in, because you're living your true, authentic self and there's nothing. There's not a better place to be. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And when people are themselves, you know they really are in that space of self actualization and they're living in a space of growth needs, and so they're constantly sinking the next new idea, the next new adventure and they're really opening up their awareness. And when somebody is open and who they are and they're operating out of fear, their heart is open, they're not closed off, and when your heart is open, you become a magnet. That's when people are in their stage of charisma and you know. That's why, when somebody could be who they are, people just are drawn to them. Rather than you know, I think, a lot what happens to many of these kids is they get kind of stuffed in this isolation and fear mode. And so the sooner you know, through education and the books that you're creating and through the type of education I'm doing, teaching parents and educators and children, you are your best advocate. You know you and you're exactly exactly who you're meant to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so, so much. This has been such a beautiful conversation and I really hope this isn't the last one either, ms Nicole. I'm hoping we can have more to come in the future and I would love to invite you back on to to share and anything upcoming, or for the summer, or anything like that.
Speaker 3:Well, there's going to be a few. I'm doing the executive functioning summit so people can check that out Excellent. I'll be teaching meditation through Bridges Graduate School, so that should be a lot of fun. And then Seth and I are going to be doing a retreat and a workshop for parents, doing kind of meditation and self-regulation, so that might be something they'd like to enjoy. And the study guide will be coming out in 2024. So keep a lookout for it for insight into a Bright Mind Study.
Speaker 2:Guide and let us know where we can go to support you and to follow everything and get information.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so NicoleTatracom is where all my writings are, and then you can check out my socials. That tells you all the things that are going on at Awesome Neuro. So both on Instagram, twitter and on Linktree.
Speaker 2:So in Linktree you could find podcasts like this there I love that Fantastic, and I'll have all of that in the show notes so we can find you and support you. Thank you so much for your time today and this is a wonderful connection, ms Harry, the connector of, like the butterfly that, just you know, connects everyone together. What a wonderful, wonderful person. So thank you so so much for your time today and I look forward to staying in touch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you, and thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure, thank you.
