Episode 349-Why Human Skills Matter More Than Content In An AI Age with Lisa Reigel

If school still looks like memorizing, pacing, and compliance, we’re preparing kids for a world that no longer exists. Today we sit down with educator, leadership researcher, and neuroscience-informed consultant Lisa Reigel to talk about what’s really driving student behavior, teacher burnout, and the rising feeling that the system can’t hold the humans inside it.

We get specific about how high-stakes testing changed the mission from “teach kids” to “teach content,” and why that shift hits neurodivergent learners and trauma-impacted students the hardest. Then we zoom out to the post-AI world. If generative AI can answer the prompt instantly, we’re often asking the wrong question. Lisa makes the case for focusing on durable human skills: executive function, emotional regulation, social skills, critical thinking, and the habits that help students succeed in relationships, work, and life.

Lisa also shares an accessible brain science framework you can use immediately, from classrooms to homes: how the vagus nerve and sensory input set the stage, how the thalamus filters and associates, and how the amygdala can hijack the system under stress. When we understand that behavior is biology plus context, discipline changes, support improves, and kids learn to become the “boss of their brain” through routines and practice, not one-off lessons.

If you care about neuroscience in education, AI in schools, trauma-informed teaching, or building a truly human-centered learning culture, this conversation is for you. Subscribe for more, share this with a teacher or parent who needs it, and leave a review with the biggest shift you want to see in schools.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Lisa

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hi, thanks for joining the SJ Child show today. This week has been really phenomenal. This podcast will come out in today or tomorrow. So heads up, Lisa. Um, yeah, um, it's gonna be it's it's a beautiful day here in Salt Lake City. Where are you coming from, Lisa? Where where are we talking about? I'm in Columbus, Ohio. And how is your weather? Is it still winter besides you, Gray?

SPEAKER_00 0:26

We had like 80 degrees a couple days ago, and then we had frost this morning. So we're in that kind of crazy. You can get all four seasons in one day in Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Yeah, right? Yep, exactly. Oh gosh, I know how that goes. Yeah, it it's the same here. It was like winter for maybe you know, two days here in Utah, which is usually, you know, all five months. So we're not really used to this. I'm getting I'm having an exciting springtime. Well, it's so great to have you here. This is my guest, Lisa, and I don't want to mispronounce your last name, so I'm gonna go ahead and let you do the introduction. Please do introduce yourself and tell us

From Classroom To Neuroscience

SPEAKER_01 1:06

a little bit about you and what brought you here today.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Sure. So my name's Lisa Regal. I was a teacher for nine years. I've been an administrator in schools. And then when I did my doctoral work, I was really focused. I always was kind of interested in the at-risk kid, and then thinking of how do you move the humans in a system as a leader. So I was always focused on the human side of education. So I did my doctorate in leadership, but I was focused on kind of engagement and motivation theory. And then about five, six years ago, I really got into the neuroscience and thinking, you know, real change happens in the brain. And we've got a lot of questions and problems that teachers are dealing with in regards to emotional resilience and executive function and you know, just behavior issues and things that really can be explained through the brain. So, what I've been doing now, I work in, I do keynotes, I do workshops. I I work, I take about five or six districts per year that I really go deep dive with districts that really want to make transformative shifts to align their system more with the humans and the brain science. And that's been really fun and rewarding. Oh, and then I try to talk to as many people as possible, get them get the word out there.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

That's the most important part. I I agree, couldn't agree more. Like, especially on a show like this, where it's access for everyone, everyone has free access. It's I'm all about access, you know. Like everyone deserves and should be able to access information wherever they're at. So I agree with that 100%, especially teachers. Oh, bless their hearts. I mean, what a hard career that do you think maybe used to be a little bit more delightful sounding, or even you know, go thinking about when you know you were a kid and you were like, Oh, I can't wait to be a teacher today. Today it just seems very so much pressure, and you would have to know just how to handle and you know appropriately dignify all of these different types of human learners, and that is a difficult, difficult ask for one individual, but thousands. I mean, I don't even know how many teachers are in the United States, probably millions, probably more like millions of teachers. I don't even know. But what a big ask. And how do you systemically converge all of the information that all of those, every single one of those teachers need? Right. Impossible feeling, right? Like, yeah, definitely.

When Testing Drives The System

SPEAKER_00 3:48

I think it's I think it's really hard right now because the system has shifted. You know, when we started having high-stakes testing where it was connected to teacher quality, because like I had tests when I was a kid, you'd show up and they'd be like, We're taking the California achievement test today, and you're like, okay, whatever. And you just took the test and moved on, because it was really about those tests were about understanding us and like kind of where we were and what we needed to do. Well, then they connected it to teacher quality, and the whole system shifted from I teach kids to I teach content. And so now if you're a neurodivergent learner, or if you're a kid who comes from trauma, or you're a kid who's not just going along with everybody else at the right pace, getting what you suppose it used to be you were a puzzle to be solved. Now you're a problem to be handled because you're impacting my data. So I think moving the system requires a mind shift away from the teacher quality data issue and back into the humans. And I think we're really at a good time to do that conversation because you know, the the tests that we currently give really measure content transmission. And there's no purpose for that in today's world. Kids don't need to demonstrate content transmission. And if they do that, we don't walk away and say you're ready for your life, right? Yeah. So we have, you know, so we have kind of an outdated purpose. And then we kind of went to career development, but with AI coming in, nobody can tell you. I read somewhere that 60% of the jobs in 10 years don't exist right now, not new jobs, just jobs, right? So there is no real career development pathway that we could really do. So that purpose is a little outdated. So I'm kind of excited because I feel like that at this point, the the obvious purpose for school is to prepare kids for a post-AI world. And I believe that a post-AI world where humans fit is in that gap between what the machines can do and where our brains come into play. And that's all the executive functioning, emotional regulation, social skills. It's all the human skills that we need. So I'm hoping the system will start to turn back that direction and really focus on what kids need to be successful in relationships, jobs, life, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

You know, we have to have to refocus. There's we we've got to evolve systems with evolving times, with evolving eras, with evolving digital access, like I said again. And it has to be done. The otherwise, we'd are putting disservice

Preparing Kids For A Post-AI World

SPEAKER_01 6:25

on all of these children to learn. Basically, I my husband always says it, you know, I'm an analog thinker, I'm an analog, and I'm like, sorry, you're gonna have we're gonna have to give you an upgrade, honey. Like, we're gonna have to talk about some of the technologies and things because I am a very big proponent of AI, and I kind of make the joke that you shouldn't be afraid of AI, you should be afraid of the people who know how to use it best, and so I think that that's where our strong points will be, and where we can teach how to use it for our world's best, you know, equality, uh, equity, all of those things. And then how do we then get the maybe older generation that haven't even been on board with this new you know technology that's haven't even seen the ice ice tip of the iceberg with AI or have no idea on how to use it? Like, how do we introduce these things to them?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Well, and I think that it it truly is that we also, I mean, kids are using it right now to cheat, right? It's like they're using it to just complete the assignments that teachers give. And so the real system shift has to start with like what we do in school needs to change, right? Those those skills, if if AI can answer the question for you, then we're asking the wrong question. So we need to start to think about how we start to shift what teaching and learning looks like so that students learn how to use AI for good. I was just talking to somebody who said, you know, I use AI as a critical friend, and it really helps me to shape my perspectives or look for holes in my thinking. So in that case, he's using AI to sharpen his thinking. The problem that we see in schools and with a lot of AI use is it's replacing our thinking. We're just saying, do this for us. And what happens then is that when our brain is not using those skills, those executive functions, they don't develop. So, like we even see today, you know, we don't memorize phone numbers anymore, which is great. My phone has all my phone numbers, it's wonderful. But I grew up having to memorize phone numbers. So that executive function in my brain, those neural connections developed and that portion of my brain works. Kids didn't develop that. And so we're seeing a lot of problems with math because math requires a lot of working memory. So I think schools have to start thinking of how are we building the raw materials that are not being built in the current context because of the way we live, whether it's technology or family structures or just the way, you know, when I was a kid, I had a lot of unstructured time. It was go out and find something to do, right? So that develops a lot of conflict resolution skills as I'm on my own and creativity and things that our kids just don't have that opportunity to do in the way that they live their life today. And schools have not filled the gap, they've just basically complained these kids are coming in without the same raw material. And it's like, well, yeah, but what are you doing about it?

unknown 9:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And let's talk about the you had brought this up about the neuroscience a lot, because when we can understand one of my very favorite things to say, when we can understand that behavior is communication, but it is

AI As Tool Not Replacement

SPEAKER_01 9:50

the way that we are understanding how they are processing and how we are perceiving it. I it it is it's like a really big problem to ask and require, you know, students to be in an environment where they're not being accommodated and they're being taught to learn in ways that the world doesn't work in anymore, like you had said. It's so confusing. How do we help our teachers with this social emotional learning curve that everybody, you know, I think has slided into? There's definitely like more classes that are coming up available for those things that I see, but there's definitely still this lack of the human part of that, and that is such a big part of like almost like a big you know umbrella over this conversation, AI and humanity. Like, how do we as humans regard our humanity and teach our children and teachers that there's got to be a way to bring it all together?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Right. Well, and I think part of part of the issue is that there are standalone classes or the guidance counselor will come push in and do a lesson on something, but that's not how our brain learns. And so what we don't want is to teach about a skill or teach about an attribute. We want kids to have routines and practices that they develop those skills, not just know they exist. Yeah. And so one of the things that I talk about in my book, NeuroWell, is creating a culture with like shared routines. And, you know, it and the first step is to really uh help people understand you said behavior is communication. I talk about behavior is the intersection between our biology and our context. So if we understand the biology of behavior and we also understand that context influences, we can change the biology of our brain by thoughtful, intentional context, which is pretty exciting. And so we have an opportunity to create this like neurowell bubble over our school so that when kids come into our school, our context is positively impacting their biology. Absolutely. And and it starts by understanding that biology. And like one of the things I always promote teachers is tell the kids about their biology. So I always use the example that your brain is like a giant company, and so you have like a CEO's office where the leader lives, and then you have like different departments that serve. And 80% of the traffic in our brain is unconscious. So we are doing a whole lot of thinking that we don't have access to that impacts then by the time it gets to the thinking part of our brain at our CEO's office, it's been very colored by the non-cognitive traffic. So I talk about these departments. First, we have a Vegas, which is our vagus

Behavior As Communication And Biology

SPEAKER_00 12:55

nerve, and its job is to monitor, it's like a systems manager. So it's monitoring is my heart pounding, is my stomach emptying, you know, is all systems go. And it's also monitoring where is my body in space. And you know, kids today, so it's called vestibular and proprietary proprioceptive input. Kids today have very weak input because the way we develop that is not how we live. We roll down hills, merry-go-rounds, sit and spins, all of those things where your body is tumbling all over the place and your brain has to figure out where it is in space, that builds that proprioceptive input. But when we're sitting there scrolling on a phone, we're not doing that. And so our kids have low input. So our vegas nerve is like a little bit agitated all the time because it's not sure where our body is in space. So it sends messages to our data center. I name mine Harold. So Harold is my thalamus, my data center. His job is to take the information from Vegas and also look around and pick up all the sensory information in the environment. And what I think educators don't understand is that all of this is happening in a part of the brain that can't tell time and doesn't know a story. So it is simply making sensory associations. And so if Harold thinks that this situation is similar to something from my past, he pulls up that association and says, Well, how did our body react the last time to keep us safe? So then he sends a report to Bob. Bob is our security monitor, he's our amygdala, and Bob decides whether to wail on the button for panic or just tap it. If he wails on it, the message comes up to us. We're the the you know, leader of our brain, comes up and says, Hey, we've got serious danger. You need to go get a cup of coffee and we'll call you when things are okay. If it's just a little agitated and he taps it, message goes up and says, Hey, boss, we're not sure how to interpret this situation. We got some negative associations, some positive. Can you weigh in? And that's what we want is to be able to go into that alert phase when we have some stressors where we're still making controlled decisions versus go get a cup of coffee and Bob and I'll handle this. And then we come back and we have to clean up the mess that Harold and Bob made. And so if people truly understand that simple, that simple part of biology, then when I'm in a classroom, it changes how I talk to kids because I'm not going to come up and say, Sarah, what are you thinking? Because I would know that from a biology standpoint, you're not. Harold and Bob are thinking, right? So instead, I might say, Sarah, what is Harold telling you right now? You seem like you're getting really, really stressed. What is Harold saying? And so you're separating that out, or you're having

Harold Bob And Stress Responses

SPEAKER_00 15:40

a really emotional day. And I'm like, hey, Bob is like off the chain today. What can we do to work together to calm him down? And so many times the kids will be like, I know, because we feel out of control when Bob and Harold are in charge, but we don't know how to take control. So being able to change the way we approach how we visualize behavior and also recognize that whatever the kid is doing in the moment or whatever my work colleague is doing in the moment has something to do with right now, but it may have nothing to do with right now. It may have to do with faulty sensory associations that Harold's making between the data in the environment and something from the past. And so it may have nothing to do with me. So I think if we understand those things, we can keep our sort of professional hat on and not put our personal defensive hat on to escalate the experience. Um, we can be more a practitioner, researcher, and be like, hmm, something in this environment is setting this kid off. So what can we do to help them gain self-control? And you know, the all the way from the way administrators process discipline with kids to the way teachers act on discipline to behavior plans, none of it that I see in schools, I would I would say 80% of the schools that I'm in, and that's being generous, don't align brain science.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Yeah. No, and then you see this, let's just call it as it is, this huge influx of homeschool now that people have had to draw their especially neurodivergent children right here out of schools because there is absolutely no way that this child can thrive in an environment that is not looking out for their individual specific biological needs on any moment of any day. It's all like you said, it's all about what is quality control or whatever. I mean, that's just a horrible way to look at teaching our future generations of individuals and humans that are going to run governments, companies, AI people, okay. Like, let's guide them and nurture them, foster these learning environments for them so that it's not this stagnant, you know, decay really of what's going to be happening if everyone is just literally staring at a screen. And you know, I love that you said that about the proprioception and things like that, because I I never really considered how much that was such an important part of the brain development. And it's funny, it was in so random, it was we had a a litter of puppies, and in reading about how to best get them, you know, the best kind of brain, if you will, you kind of hold them and roll them around, and you also do that, you do the rolling, and oh my gosh, now I'm like putting two and two together here. You know how good it is for for humans and kids as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

So I'm gonna go and you even notice dogs before they lay down to relax their bodies, they go around and around and around in a circle. Oh, true, and then they lay down. And sometimes people say that's because they're seeing if there's a snake, but that's not actually true. It's it's that they're they're naturally calming their body down, and you know, when they get excited, they pant and they breathe. And there's like there's so many things when you look at the behavior of animals that they do these things naturally, but humans don't live in nature like that anymore. And so we we do not have really the brain matching with the context of our times, it's still a brain that would be good for us many, many years ago. So it's so we have to make changes. And you know, to your point about having to pull your kid out of school because it's the wrong context, I feel like there's there's an understanding of the things that we're talking about, and there's an understanding that kids' brains are different, and but the system is not set up. And so teachers are put in this really impossible situation because they're being pressured to get through, get through, get through. Everybody has to go to the next page because it's the next day, and you've got to have tests, tests, tests. And they know that they're doing practices that are not good for some of the kids in their class and devastating for some. They know that, but they can't figure out how to get both conflicting systems to work together. And that's really what I walk in to try to do is say you can still get good test scores. You can do all these things that you need with a human-centered system as opposed to a control and compliance and completion type of system that doesn't really prepare them for the end goal, anyways. They're not ready for their future.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Right. And let's, if we really look at society as a whole, we're ready for that human-centered piece. Like we're it, we're embracing it, we're talking about it on podcasts, we're making it normal conversation so that it can be a just normal right bias to everyone. And it doesn't have to be this struggle to comply, this comply, comply. It's like all of this compliance. Interesting, just as a parent, also kind of in having a 10-year gap between my oldest stepdaughter and my younger. It's just it's astronomical how many things can change in that time, how much changed in that child's environment and learning and the school processes to what there is now, and how differently we need to set up these, you know, not only learning systems at home, but especially at school. But when we can't do these types of things, sometimes, like you had said, sometimes the administrators don't even know how to help and how to change things. What taught where can we start kind of? As far as like, I'm gonna put your website up here to show

Human-Centered Systems That Actually Work

SPEAKER_01 22:05

epinstitute.net. Tell us a little bit about that and and how people can start to look for help.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Sure. So EP stands for education partnerships. So my entire consulting career has been about working as a team, right? Partnering up, whether it's parents partnering with the school to bridge that context, whether it's teachers partnering together, whether it's businesses partnering with districts. And so it's really about everybody coming together under a similar purpose. So EP Institute, that website, you can find some information about the work that I do in schools. I do keynote addresses, I do workshops, I do leadership development, leadership coaching, I do direct teacher support. I'll come in and sit elbow to elbow with teacher teams and build stuff with them. So I am there not to just tell them what they should do, but to be there to help them get it accomplished. And then I have two books. I have the NeuroWell book is the one that is really focused on how to create that context in a school that will make people happier, healthier, and more successful. So it goes through like the first part of the book talks about why kids are not okay right now. And then the second really goes into a deeper dive in the brain science. The third section's about what we can do in a classroom setting. And this could be homeschool or in a traditional school. And then the fourth section is some information about how we help parents create positive context in their home. So that's the neurowell book. And then to get at all that right, I didn't ask you ahead of time. Yep. Yeah. That's good. Yep. And then the second book is called Aspirations to Operations. And that is a leadership book. And it's it's industry agnostic. Any industry leader anywhere, if you're a leader, you'd find it useful. But it basically talks about, you know, like what we were talking today about, that the system has to shift. And I think too often we put the the weight of these problems on the teacher. And that's not fair because the teacher exists within a system where she had or he has limited control. So aspirations to operations is like, how do you take your dream and operationalize it using the brain science to understand the staff that you need to lead? What do people need in order to be energized around a change and so that they'll be engaged and they'll actually sustain that change? So that's kind of my mission is to help people, you know, start to think about the human again. Cause I think it's everybody, you know, it's a simple decision to say, I want to be happier and healthier and more successful. And it's truly not that hard to get there, but you have to be intentional and strategic and knowledgeable. So you've got to have self-awareness, self-regulation, and some self-control once you make that choice, which the choice is simple, but getting there can be a little bit more complicated because you have to be intentional and repetitive. It has to be a context, not an event.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Yep, I agree. And you could start by doing that, everybody, by just taking daily steps to work on a daily practice of any kind of intent. You know, read a positive quote every morning so that you feel better. Write down or journal or speak into your phone. You know, there's there's always more options than just writing. You can always sing special message to yourself. There's so many ways to access and activate intentional thinking and intentional living. So I absolutely agree with that. I that's funny. My head like shook no, and I was saying something positive. I just noticed that. What am I doing? That's probably my ADHD, just going, Yes, this is so exciting. But it's there's really so much power in what you're saying. And when people, the right people, get this information, they can make a world of difference. So please, please, please go to the epinstitute.net and find out more information and how you can connect with Lisa. Um, check out her books, NeuroWell, as well as Aspirations to Operations. And I love the way you talked about the company or the operating system of our brains. And I think that one of the most important things we can teach our even preschool age children is every bit of that beginning of the brain process and where they are at. Remind them throughout their journey where they are at in their brain. It helps them so much to feel normal, to feel like they are not the only ones going through this to remind them that all of these human things that they're

Books Resources And Daily Practices

SPEAKER_01 26:55

experiencing are just that human things. They're not rare and special because of those things, they're rare and special because of the thoughts, ideas, and value that they bring as individuals to the world. So that's what we need to teach our kids.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah. Well, and even the little ones, like if you teach them that they get to be the boss of their brain, they like being a boss. Yes. So if you teach them they're the boss, and then when they're out of control, instead of what's wrong with you, you can be like, hey, we got to work together because Bob is freaking out, and we need to calm Bob down, and they'll be like, I know, right? So you start to teach them that intentional talking to Harold and Bob. And you know, when you think about a gratitude journal or affirmations or looking, you know, even I used to ask my kids, tell me two good things that happened today. Every day we did that at dinner. And and there's actually biology involved in that. When we tell Harold to look for something, then Harold is looking for patterns. So if we say the world is kind, people are kind, you're smart, if we say those things, Harold's going to look for things in our environment that confirm that bias. And you know, there's a very famous experiment that they did where they had people count how many times somebody made a basket on a basketball court, and then they stopped the video and asked participants how many baskets did you witness? And they said it. And then they said, Did you notice the giant gorilla that walked across the floor? And they were and more than they didn't even see it. And so our brain is primed to see what we tell it to see. So if we teach kids, you get to be the boss of your brain and you get to decide what you see in your environment. And it's more fun to see fun things than it is to see sad things. And because I feel like we've got all these beautiful, positive, wonderful gorillas walking around our courts and we don't even notice them. And we're just so focused on the negative things that are going on, and then that plays into a confirmation bias and makes problem worse.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Yep. Oh my gosh, couldn't be more true, too. And showing your kids by practicing yourself is the most important thing because they're watching all of that modeling behavior, you know, the good and the bad. So uh when you do have those bad days, teach them how to resolve out of that, teach them how to self-forgive, teach them to show self-care through accountability and knowing that, you know, hopefully in more than just my house, showing that unconditional love literally means that unconditional, that no matter what comes to the table, if you can give it a perception of how it looks in love, you can change things and you can offer different uh directions to pursue ideas. I'm always telling my daughters has a boyfriend, and I love to remind him that no matter his value doesn't ever come from the hard work he does or the you know grade he got. It comes that he because he is just him, because he's a good person. He is just a valuable human being. And I don't think that was anything anyone ever told him before. And to see the change that occurred over this last six months of having that, like I that is I do have that worth, that value, just because I am me changes a person's life, I'll tell you what. So yeah, I don't know where I went off on that tangent, but it was it's so good, it's such a good thing to see just that see the results of that happening for someone. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah, well, and I think again, it's that biology and context, and you know, the context we're in right now is so transactional. Kids are like, you have to perform, you have to do this assessment, you have to prove that you're good, you have to. So that message that you're sending him of what makes you amazing is just who you are, not what you did, is is really powerful because over and over and over, that exposure to just I have to earn my keep, whether it's I'm constantly trying out for the next sports team, I'm not ever just good enough to be where I am, or I always have to get the test done, or I always have to, you know, our kids are really put in a situation where they're not appreciated or recognized or recognize in themselves beautiful things about who they are that make them valuable. I don't care if you can throw the football farther than somebody else, you know, that's not what makes me excited about you. Yeah. And so I think having, you know, even one of the things parents can do at home is just toot your own horn and toot their horn. Like just, you know, at dinner, have positive things and like be, you know, we could be sitting at dinner, and I'm like, Sarah, tell me one thing about you that you are super proud of, and just let them brag on themselves. Or, you know what? I wanted to tell you there were two things that I saw that you did today that I just so appreciated. Like taking a minute to thank people, hug and kiss your kids every day, and tell them, I believe in you, you've got this, you know, just little things like that to continue to feed Harold positive, positive, positive, and try to combat all these negative filters that our current context is creating for our brain. Isn't that the truth?

Final Takeaways And Connect Online

SPEAKER_01 32:20

This has been such a wonderful conversation. I really look forward to staying in touch with you and checking out the NeuroWell book, especially. I'm very interested to learn more about that and to just um follow up with you. And please, in the future, if you have things that are coming up or happening, let me know so that I can make an announcement and share with everyone. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's been a great conversation. Everyone, please go visit epinstitute.net and check out Lisa Regal and find her on social media. Where can we find you on social medias?

SPEAKER_00 33:01

I'm on LinkedIn. So I have I I'm working on getting onto the other ones, but for right now, I'm on LinkedIn. So please feel free to connect with me and you can message me through there or my website has my my email and everything else. I'm not, I don't make it hard to reach out.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Thank you again.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

And uh look forward to staying in touch. Thank you.