A Conversation with Dr Penny Trayner and DJ Mark One about the creative application of DJ Tuition to neurorehabilitation.
A Conversation with Dr Penny Trayner and DJ Mark One about the creative application of DJ Tuition to neurorehabilitation.
Ingram Wright: Welcome, both of you i'm really pleased that you've given up some time this Friday afternoon to talk to me, so this is the second in our series of podcasts from the neuro clinic and it's a real pleasure to have penny trainer and mark Lee do you prefer markley or mark one.
DJ Mark One: DJ mark one really.
Ingram Wright: DJ mark one.
Ingram Wright: yeah do I have to refer to you throughout the podcast is DJ mark one, or is there a shortened.
Absolutely.
DJ Mark One: just call me mark that's fine mark.
Ingram Wright: That that makes perfect sense mark.
Ingram Wright: you're very welcome, but I thought we'd start by letting you guys introduce yourselves penny, do you want to go first.
Dr Penny Trayner: Yes, thanks and good so.
Dr Penny Trayner: I am a pediatric clinical neuropsychologist, as you know, so i'm based up in Manchester, I am in private practice, I have a Community based new a rehab service.
Dr Penny Trayner: That i've been running for I think it's just over 12 years now, so do a lot of work out in the Community i'm always looking for kind of innovative approaches to rehabilitation.
Dr Penny Trayner: And so, when i'm not being a neuropsychologist i'm also now a DJ so have been for the last couple of years, which is where mark and I have met where our partnerships come together and the work that we're doing together, which hopefully will speak to a little bit about today.
Ingram Wright: that's fantastic penny mark, do you want to introduce yourself.
DJ Mark One: Yes, okay so i'm mark, also known as a DJ mark one that's officially my stage name i've been a professional DJ now for 37 years and I have no idea where that time has gone either.
DJ Mark One: i've DJ it all over the world, I was a member of a rather large band called Texas, many years ago in the late 90s.
DJ Mark One: toured all over Europe doing TV, radio festivals arena tours and then I became a DJ tutor 19 years ago kind of got tired of the touring life, it was amazing, but it was very tiring.
DJ Mark One: And I felt that I had reached the pinnacle indeed dream that I could ever wanted to, I wanted to give something back so I started becoming a DJ two to 19 years ago and developing the skills of teaching, for me, was very instinctive.
DJ Mark One: And I now train DJ tutors to teach in schools as instrumental teachers at develop the curriculum for GCSE exam boards aqa ocr at excel.
DJ Mark One: Because you can now take DJ and as parts of your music GCSE as part of your musical performance it comes to 30% of the qualification.
DJ Mark One: I have just completed the syllabus for university west London and llc me exams, because you can now officially take Beijing as a musical and in a globally recognized accredited musical Grade one, three and five.
Ingram Wright: As fantastic mark mitosis just chosen their options and music is one of them, and now i'm after this podcast i'm going to be steering a in your direction, I hope I hope you have some some expert guidance.
DJ Mark One: Really, more than welcome.
DJ Mark One: This whole journey of 37 years it's been a bit of a mission for me in making DJ accessible and inclusive.
DJ Mark One: Because when I started bj if anyone wants to take DJ now they can go to a big school, they can still be online and now it's being taken as part of GCSE in music in schools.
DJ Mark One: Back in 1988 27 when I was starting out when I said then way back then, I wanted to be a professional DJ.
DJ Mark One: Everybody said I couldn't do it, they said, my teachers my family and my friends said no, no, I have to get a proper job and I thought i'll show you and that's been continuing for the last seven years so.
Ingram Wright: Fantastic The other thing that i'm so pleased about with a 37 year timeline mark is the.
Ingram Wright: Music that musical influences are stretching just that further back into a realm that I can actually remember and in engaging being 50 I was a bit worried that some of the stuff that you will have you'll be bringing forward for us will be sort of outside of my sphere of interest.
Ingram Wright: Oh Absolutely not.
Ingram Wright: What kind of music, so this is, this is an obvious point to ask you what kind of music you're into.
DJ Mark One: Oh gosh well, I actually started off as a hip hop DJ and doing all the mixing and scratching and entering the DJ competitions and I wonder regional mixing championships three times in a row.
DJ Mark One: So I started off as a hip hop DJ, but I think if you're passionate about something you should always be looking to learn and evolve.
DJ Mark One: As a performer so and even as a teacher as well being a reflective practitioner is a massive part of teaching.
DJ Mark One: And so I started off as a hip hop DJ and then got into Funk soul this go on to realize that hip hop was made from old samples from the 60s and 70s and then evolved into playing commercial rmb into pop music.
DJ Mark One: And because yeah because music taste, is very subjective and the whole nightclub industry is very dynamic in terms of trends come in and go in.
DJ Mark One: You have to adapt or you fade away in this industry, so I can play absolutely anything, rather than john will drum and bass house music r&b and hip hop.
DJ Mark One: yeah tell you pick.
Ingram Wright: Fantastic What about you penny what kind of music, do you listen to.
Dr Penny Trayner: So I listen to all sorts of.
Ingram Wright: Music that's that's too broad a question.
Dr Penny Trayner: Yes, quite broad question, because if you asked me what sort of music I play would be very different to what sort of music I listen to, so I largely play house music because.
Dr Penny Trayner: I wanted to play music that you can play in clubs that I can play out because actually part of the thrill of DJ for me especially learning to DJ quite late on in my life, compared to other people who did it in their teens.
Dr Penny Trayner: As you know, in training to be a neuropsychologist takes up quite a bit of your time so I didn't have a huge amount of time to be doing it when I was younger so it's a real privilege to be able to do it now.
Dr Penny Trayner: But I wanted to play the sort of music that I can play out so some of the music I listen to it home might not be stuff that as mark said it's necessarily popular or relevant in the clubs, at the moment.
Dr Penny Trayner: But actually part of the fun of DJ is be able to go out and make people dance and entertain and be part of that and change that energy.
Dr Penny Trayner: Change the vibe of the crowd and so to do that, you need to be able to, I guess, I felt that I needed to be able to identify genre that I could realistically go out and play it.
Dr Penny Trayner: And I could have you know all those influences and links in my life so.
Dr Penny Trayner: But i'm very lucky I come from, you know, a family that listen to everything, when I was growing up all the way from you know Bob marley to like you say rock and roll and all that stuff so i've got it all covered.
Dr Penny Trayner: Lots of vinyl mark is gradually showing me what to do with it and how to use it and you know make sense of it, which is part of the fun really that it's a constantly ever evolving hobby I guess the Russia passion of mine now so yeah yeah so.
Ingram Wright: So before we get all our people who are interested in psychology and you rehabilitation switching off and thinking, this is about, DJ could you tell tell us penny what's what's the link yeah.
Dr Penny Trayner: So my journey with all of this, like I say began, two years ago I had the opportunity to join.
Dr Penny Trayner: A concentrated course of three months from zero to hero crash course in DJ producing mixing.
Dr Penny Trayner: everything together, it was put together by someone called Lisa lashes which you might just about remember ingram from your covering days back in the day when you're using i'm sure she's around.
Dr Penny Trayner: She is a very influential female she's Actually, I think, to this date still the only female DJ that's been in the top 100 DJ so.
Dr Penny Trayner: she'd set up a school with the idea of taking people that perhaps traditionally would not have been able to reach DJ and gave us that kind of opportunity to go from zero to hero in in three months so that was where I was mark.
Dr Penny Trayner: I finished that training and and you know have continued doing my own things with DJ but actually from the very first day when I stood in front of those decks I realized what a fantastic rehab opportunity, this would be.
Dr Penny Trayner: And there are so many different elements of it which mark will explain much better than I can but so many different elements of it, lend themselves.
Dr Penny Trayner: To being applicable to rehabilitation environment so not only you know the obvious stuff the manual dexterity the using the decks the sort of.
Dr Penny Trayner: using the equipment physically, but actually the the use of timing attention the use of memory, the use of procedural learning the use of all of that kind of stuff really, really lends itself to.
Dr Penny Trayner: us being able to apply this as a rehabilitation activity and my mission is always to find ways that people want to engage in their rehabilitation because.
Dr Penny Trayner: Actually, even in the time that i've been a neuropsychologist things have evolved, you know, we now have computers and digital stuff.
Dr Penny Trayner: And people perhaps don't want to sit there with you know diaries just learning about stuff you know, out of context, whereas if you give them a reason.
Dr Penny Trayner: If you give them a DJ training, where they have to take notes, where they have to study notes, where they have to practice in between sessions, where they get to understand that value of repetition.
Dr Penny Trayner: Where they get to apply some of the memory strategies attention strategies to support their learning suddenly they're doing rehabilitation in context suddenly it's fun sudden it's motivating.
Dr Penny Trayner: And suddenly it's really happening for me as an outcome to adopt those skills and and then what were the kind of mark and I kind of set up our program I.
Dr Penny Trayner: i'm not sure, like all neuropsychologists when I go on holiday I like to visit neuropsychological rehabilitation centers if I can go to have a little look about what they do in other countries it's always good to learn.
Dr Penny Trayner: So I found myself in Arizona on a couple of occasions and had the opportunity to go and visit Barrow and have a look at their model and how they run.
Dr Penny Trayner: and create that therapeutic melia that's so important that environment that whole rehab environment, and I really had to think about how I might be able to recreate that with my patients with the people I work with.
Dr Penny Trayner: And, as we know, working with kids in the UK will certainly anywhere, and you know it's really difficult to remove people from their home environments and take them off for long periods of time for rehab.
Dr Penny Trayner: and actually really we shouldn't be we want to be doing rehab at home.
Dr Penny Trayner: So we kind of came up with an idea of creating a camp where children could come young people could come for a concentrated period of time.
Dr Penny Trayner: sit and learn all these kind of skill do all the kind of neuropsychology with me and then put it into practice, put it in context with training with mark.
Dr Penny Trayner: And so, so I met mark having you know seen his work haven't been at glastonbury actually mark, I think, when you were playing with Texas that one time and seeing having that.
Dr Penny Trayner: I recognize that photo you said, having that you know that expertise really and that understanding on how to actually teach these skills in a systematic way a program where.
Dr Penny Trayner: The two things I felt came together really nicely so mark and I thought let's let's go for it let's run a camp.
Dr Penny Trayner: And we ran our first ever brain camp in in the summer of 2019 where we had young people in for a week for a non residential camp.
Dr Penny Trayner: And in the morning, we learned cognitive skills and we learned, we learned how to use external strategies to support memory attention etc executive functioning and then in the afternoon, they got to cool the cool stuff which was trading to do with mark.
Ingram Wright: What can you, thank you for that it's really helpful inspiring and it's hard to kind of you know.
Ingram Wright: You find anything that you know would would would say to anyone other than this is a fantastic idea or a great way to engage in people in rehabilitation.
Ingram Wright: And that learning how to butter slice of toast and make a party or whatever else we might do in a rehabilitation context, or perhaps less motivating and less engaging for young people.
Ingram Wright: i'm wondering what kind of reaction.
Ingram Wright: So yeah yeah yeah What was really what kind of reaction.
Ingram Wright: you've had to the kind of ideas and whether there's been any I suppose I was thinking mark also about you know your sort of days it's kind of going into this area, as a young person yourself and.
Ingram Wright: You know how people might have views about what place teaching has in meaningful aspects of our everyday life is it is it something that you've come across penny, have you come across any sort of resistance to the idea, this might be an effective tool of vehicle for delivering rehabilitation.
Dr Penny Trayner: Actually, a completely the opposite, I think it really switches people on I think they and their parents are interested.
Dr Penny Trayner: I think, as soon as particularly young people recently market i've designed a program, which is also accessible for adults.
Dr Penny Trayner: I think, as soon as you talk about music and DJ it brings everything to life people start talking about yeah they're all times the things I used to enjoy the songs I used to enjoy the aspirations, they once had to do something in music, so I think it actually.
Dr Penny Trayner: Is a conversation that we can all have and we can all relate to so it becomes much more equalizing.
Dr Penny Trayner: So yeah you're absolutely right that you know, it is important to learn how to butter toast, it is important to they are to make yourself a cup of tea.
Dr Penny Trayner: But it's also called kind of nice to have a hobby that's that's cool something you enjoy and some of you can connect with other people were in a meaningful way that isn't just always about rehabilitation and neurology and neuropsychology.
Ingram Wright: could ask about when you were talking about teaching I didn't I hadn't thought about this when we when we talked previously, but what about gaming you know, because the other thing that kids are really into his gaming and by all the cognitive processes that are involved there.
Ingram Wright: And i'm not suggesting you drop the DJ i'm just thinking.
Ingram Wright: That actually is there some value in in following people's interest things that people genuinely enjoy and seeing the value in some of that because I think one of the things that's happened, I think, within a sort of gaming.
Ingram Wright: fraternities be a lot of criticism of gaming that it's kind of.
Ingram Wright: occupied vast array of people's time and takes them out of the social media, but actually there's a lot of social activity goes on in the gaming community and i'm wondering whether you guys.
Ingram Wright: have similar views about gaming or whether you feel that something entirely separate or further away from what it is that you're you're fundamentally interested in.
Ingram Wright: I think.
Dr Penny Trayner: it's all related in terms of the field of rehab and fighting rehab that's meaningful for individuals, but I do think gaming gives you a slightly different experience, I think you can still work on lots of very useful skills.
Dr Penny Trayner: But what DJ is giving you is you know it's things like you need to plan sets you need to look up tracks, you need to practice and rehearse in between.
Dr Penny Trayner: You need to engage with the social world around you in order to hear music listen to music seek out music.
Dr Penny Trayner: You get to speak to other individuals about their influences you find some excitement of hunting down a song that you've heard on the radio wants and, finally, the day it's released and you get a hold of it i'm not sure.
Dr Penny Trayner: The game necessarily gives you all those same experiences, but I totally agree that absolutely there's a subsection of people that would not communicate with other people if they weren't talking to people online gaming I think it's to be celebrated.
Dr Penny Trayner: And I think actually we've seen a lot of that during the lockdown period of the last 12 months in particular has actually shown us value and its purpose of bringing people together.
Dr Penny Trayner: And also like DJ and whereas mark will explain how but you know we can automate quite a lot of the processes to make it as accessible as it needs to be meaning, it becomes a very equalizing for people and similar to gaming I think.
Dr Penny Trayner: You know now when you look at the number of accessibility options and things you can change it's unbelievable compared to you know when we were kids and we were learning.
Dr Penny Trayner: How to play tetris and stuff it can be totally customized and I think a lot of people really enjoy that that they can just be themselves, they become beyond their disabilities, you know they're just gaming and, similarly to DJ we can do that yeah yeah.
Ingram Wright: Mark do you do you have any sort of, I suppose, in terms of your experience of coming coming into this was it would have you ever experienced any sort of pushback that this has no place here or have you felt that the rehabilitation context has been quite welcoming for you.
DJ Mark One: Not I mean like the backlog what Kenny says, you know it is kind of be welcomed with open arms, and if there has been any skepticism regarding.
DJ Mark One: The effectiveness or or the outcomes of be doing that the within a very short amount of time, it can it can be spelled because they see the result music study subjective.
DJ Mark One: adults and children alike are passionate about music and there's an intrinsic part of music called the pulse.
DJ Mark One: which everyone, you know if you wonder why people want to see people nodding their head when they listen to music or.
DJ Mark One: tapping the floor just because they're feeling the pulse of might not be hearing it, but if we let everyone who's got a false So for me musically is something that is.
DJ Mark One: Part of our DNA down to our military structure so for anyone to say that they don't really feel or hear music I don't really believe that everyone's passionate about music and you know some of the stories that i've got from teaching people.
DJ Mark One: Over the years are astounding results i've had happened beyond belief what one story, I do have and i'll come back back to your question is that my father.
DJ Mark One: Six years ago suffered a near fatal stroke and he got cute aphasia so I took six months, out of work, working on his rehabilitation now, even though not speech and language therapist I just again instinctively knew what techniques to use.
DJ Mark One: And one morning and I was working on his rehabilitation was leaving to go home and on the radio now he's got severe aphasia he can't speak he can almost speak when prompted john Lennon imagine comes on the radio he sings it word for word like a bird.
DJ Mark One: And I could not believe the result and that's when I understood the power of music and the potential of music in a rehabilitation setting.
DJ Mark One: So sharing that kind of story in those experiences with anyone who's fairly skeptical about the outcomes of the results of this program and generally bring people in line with what it is that we're trying to achieve and what we are achieving here.
Ingram Wright: that's fantastic marketing and utterly convinced that bowled over by your enthusiasm for this, and I think it's clearly well placed, and I think you're absolutely right about.
Ingram Wright: The power of music to draw people in and to intrinsically motivate people I think it's hard to stumble across anyone who isn't interested in some form of music and if.
Ingram Wright: As you say, penny you capture that and you use it as a vehicle to drive forward rehabilitation and you can achieve results, presumably that.
Ingram Wright: You otherwise wouldn't and I just wondered how penny a specific question for you really have how how have you found it.
Ingram Wright: Working with young people how have you found that they've engaged in it so you've run these camps, I guess you're also continuing to do some of this in various in various ways, how do, how do young people who've had brain injuries take to take to these kinds of sessions.
Dr Penny Trayner: So I mean mark can tell you a little bit about kind of the individual sessions that we've continued to do with some of the young people not can but.
Dr Penny Trayner: You know, like I said you can't put a price really on finding something that people want to do, and so.
Dr Penny Trayner: Whereas coming along two sessions with penny i'm sure is great and thrilling for everyone coming along, knowing that you're going to get your next DJ lesson that you're going to get a skill that's going to help improve that.
Dr Penny Trayner: It just increases everyone's in that mark says their motivation, but they are intrinsically motivated to engage with this kids show up on time, they want to learn more and they want to express themselves, you know.
Dr Penny Trayner: What the program that we've designed covers everything from mark teaching, obviously the mechanics of understanding how you understanding how to DJ but mark also teaches young people about.
Dr Penny Trayner: Adults about music and understanding how music is structured and broken down.
Dr Penny Trayner: and giving them kind of study skills really or things to go off and apply their their learning to and find out more information about.
Dr Penny Trayner: which then becomes a vehicle for us training study skills and training, all those kinds of other things that just makes it really easy to to put everything on top of that.
Dr Penny Trayner: we've done with with smoke with the numbers that we've got at the moment means we know we're not doing randomized control trials at this we wouldn't I don't think we will be, but we are.
Ingram Wright: Always gonna say, have you thought of it, have you thought of any ways that you could take the fun out of.
Ingram Wright: It and then.
Ingram Wright: randomized controlled trial sounds like one way.
Dr Penny Trayner: let's let's do a project for sure that's.
Dr Penny Trayner: A way to do it let's.
Ingram Wright: let's vacuum, the fun out of this.
Dr Penny Trayner: What we are looking at is effectiveness and we are with all the young people we're working with we're tracking their mood we're tracking resilience we're tracking self esteem.
Dr Penny Trayner: And just we are noticing those differences improvements and actually what we're noticing, more than anything is that kind of willingness and wanting us to return to rehabilitation to come back and learn more.
Dr Penny Trayner: Mark hadn't seen one of the young people that was at the camp, I think, for about 18 months, just because of the lockdown and various different things and.
Dr Penny Trayner: turned on the camera for remote session, the first thing they did was stood there with that with that book.
Dr Penny Trayner: That they'd have that they'd have from brain camp, with all their notes that they've reviewed prior to the session so that they would prefer ready to go.
Dr Penny Trayner: ready armed with their pen ready to write everything down said hang on a minute i'll put a note on my calendar for our next session all the skills that we didn't put it to the meeting months ago was still there.
Dr Penny Trayner: Because it was meaningful, because it was valuable meaningful for them so yeah.
DJ Mark One: yeah i'd like to add to that you know the child in case I haven't seen him for 18 months and the amount of information that you remembered from the first session to our next session 18 months later, was astounding you really was.
Ingram Wright: Fantastic Thank you.
Ingram Wright: So question, I had a minute what's amazing to hear you talk about actually penny, in response to my.
Ingram Wright: rather silly question about gaming is is is that, actually, you can embed this within context, so it doesn't have limitations it's about how you organize yourself it's about where it fits in with life, how you plan how you.
Ingram Wright: communicate, how you with a wider social network and embed that within within the social challenges that you that you face yeah I suppose mark, I wondered you talk sorry go on.
Dr Penny Trayner: I was just gonna say what are the things I you know mark or smile at this that I hadn't realized when I became a DJ was you know.
Dr Penny Trayner: You see this DJ doing this lovely our set and you think oh that's great so sounds great flows, you know that our set could take you anywhere between you know four hours to a day to plan, maybe more to really think about it, because.
Dr Penny Trayner: When I say mark teaches about music he not only you know i've continued my training with marketers not only taught me about the individual tracks, but the journey of music and how you take people on a journey within a set.
Dr Penny Trayner: These are all really useful things for the people to think about, because actually it's quite good for metacognition it's quite good for.
Dr Penny Trayner: theory of mind development taking the perspective of others understanding how what your how your behavior influences other people, so all of that can be applied and so it's not that we're using DJ to kind of somehow.
Dr Penny Trayner: replace what we already know it's about enhancing the evidence base in a way that's meaningful to these young people that you know i'm absolutely loving but yeah so next time you hear that hour long sets respect for that DJ they might take them two days to put that together.
DJ Mark One: yeah Hello say it's very interesting that you mentioned gaming alongside DJ because i'm actually traveling a program.
DJ Mark One: To run a virtual reality, DJ school with an online platform so i'm traveling the system at the moment and it's something that I would like to incorporate into our program, as I said before, DJ is accessible.
DJ Mark One: moto because now you don't have to pay 10,000 pounds for a DJ sets or you can spend 100 pounds on a DJ controller.
DJ Mark One: The DJ software is free, you can stream the music from streaming services, and you can even stream on your mobile device or your tablet so.
DJ Mark One: You don't have to invest 10,000 pounds on a setup but anyone who doesn't have the ability to.
DJ Mark One: acquire the DJ equipment, but can access those materials online in a virtual reality setting again, I think that that's an amazing crossover and we can we can we can certainly make that work moving forward.
Ingram Wright: Can I reveal the secret that i've been hiding for both of you, which is that I am also a DJ.
Ingram Wright: Because.
Ingram Wright: Obviously.
Ingram Wright: people listening to the podcast will have no idea what's going on.
Dr Penny Trayner: And i'm showing.
Ingram Wright: Properly recognized as a very cheap.
Ingram Wright: Set what is this marks i'm.
DJ Mark One: I didn't even know what it is.
DJ Mark One: I need a controller so.
DJ Mark One: The iPod in the middle.
DJ Mark One: control the DJ software, with the controller yeah.
yeah.
Ingram Wright: yeah and it's great fun and i've had great fun with this.
Ingram Wright: I have actually run is to get some people dancing.
DJ Mark One: I was just hiding under the.
desk.
Ingram Wright: But it just it just seemed like a good time to come out as a sort of secret.
Ingram Wright: DJ but I guess what i've done is i've just played and try to learn and do some things that I thought might make sense, what i've never had is any sort of formal teaching or tuition.
Ingram Wright: But what you're saying is actually this is this is growing in enormously quickly and it's very much an industry that you're part of a kind of broader interest in music and in DJ and rehabilitation is just one part of that right yeah.
DJ Mark One: yeah it is and the classes and the program that pending of our structure together we're always very mindful of targeting the seven learning styles of.
DJ Mark One: Oral verbal physical logical social solitary and visual including all that within the program so as we know, students, may resonate with one learning style, more so than the other.
DJ Mark One: And that's fine if a student or a learner comes from a logical.
DJ Mark One: perspective i've actually broken down the arrangement of music into in terms of numbers and very, very basic algorithms I always say if you can counter for you can DJ for is the magic number, because there are four beats in a bar.
DJ Mark One: And all music is just a repetition of a certain amount of bars once you understand that concept, and we do have counting exercises and critical listening exercises.
DJ Mark One: Again, which helps learners multitask, even though they don't actually know their multitasking at the time.
DJ Mark One: I almost come from the angle of I teach people without them, realizing that they're being taught and so many skills on on in one session until we go to the enemy do a recap.
DJ Mark One: and say okay critical listening and exercise, you are identifying rhythms instruments you're analyzing the sequence of the song and before they know it they've understood the principles of the arrangement of music within the space with five minutes, just because they will counter for.
Ingram Wright: And do you start with that mark i'm just want this process to work so let's say you're working with a child.
Ingram Wright: who's had a brain injury they're clearly interested in music they clearly motivated to engage with you and understand what it is that they have to do where do you start and teach this kind of stuff you know.
DJ Mark One: I guess, I mean.
Ingram Wright: I can remember vaguely what it was like to be a child that'd be desperate to get my hands on these decks and just have a go right yeah are you saying you're going to hold me back until I can count to four.
DJ Mark One: Not at all, not at all, even though i'm guiding them through the lessons is ultimately driven by the children and the adults are taking this or another program I will always give them choices, I will always give them outcomes so.
DJ Mark One: I always ask them what do they know about DJ and have the exceeding DJ putting them before, can you name any DJ what musical you're into.
DJ Mark One: So i'm getting all this information, so I know I can repurpose the dances and this information later answer.
DJ Mark One: I will say to them Okay, for your homework and we want I want you to find 10 tracks, for me, that we can source and we can include those into your DJ lessons.
DJ Mark One: In the future, so immediately i've got their attention and their enthusiasm for the next few weeks, because that.
DJ Mark One: You know, going out on sourcing those tracks and those artists, it gives them purpose and it's something they can engage with straight away, and you know you're going to stay engaged, because those tracks they're going to be mixing in three or four weeks time.
Ingram Wright: Mark i'm itching to hear some music now because we've told us about music, for a long time and, just like the kid who wants to get their hands on the deck and thinking gonna show us what he can do.
Okay.
Ingram Wright: you've been you've been you've been forewarned mark this isn't a total surprise for you, is it.
DJ Mark One: No, not at all, and this is one of the mixing techniques which I get all the learners to perform in their very first lesson.
DJ Mark One: So we could have created a program where we concentrate on the knowledge and the preparation first but I broken each lesson down or penny and I broken each lesson down.
DJ Mark One: into four areas of preparing for the lesson the knowledge understanding the tracks, the beats the bars the phrases.
DJ Mark One: On understanding the DJ software navigating around the user interface, and then the actual practical application of the James so.
DJ Mark One: All the lessons are set out in that term that order, so this is a technique outperform from less than one, and that is just taking one track matching the tempos and pressing play and appropriate time fading and fading out.
DJ Mark One: And it can all be done because i'm using a bit of the.
DJ Mark One: Counting rounds of four weeks.
DJ Mark One: So I will just share my screen, if I may, could you.
Ingram Wright: enable these two just to let you know mark and people won't be able to see this because we.
Ingram Wright: Could will record it so we'll have the video what it can do is use this bit and put it on a Twitter sorry i'm just talking off podcast now what i'll do is i'll just to let you know we will just have an audio only podcast but i'll put the video on alongside as a kind of add on OK.
Ingram Wright: OK, no problem right.
DJ Mark One: back into role now.
DJ Mark One: So I have chosen to track two very popular tracks.
Ingram Wright: Again, sorry sorry.
Ingram Wright: Sorry mark i'm stopping you but you want me to Sony who can share the screen isn't it.
DJ Mark One: Yes, Guy.
Ingram Wright: i'll give you scraped you want me to give you screen sharing permissions that one.
yeah yeah.
Ingram Wright: Sorry, I was too too wrapped up in my own thoughts i'm going to make you a Co host okay.
DJ Mark One: Right, so the setup that we have for these sessions and the program is DJ controller wise, as you see, I was explaining before you can pay up to 10,000 for.
DJ Mark One: A DJ settle or you can have the accessible pioneer DJ 200.
DJ Mark One: Which is it's a model below the new mark a DJ that you've got actually so you can connect this with your mobile device i've connected it to the laptop I always encourage our learners to connect.
DJ Mark One: To a laptop rather than a mobile device because they're just more learning outcomes that we can target and options available.
DJ Mark One: So i'm using a piece of beat free DJ software called record box, this is the same principle as a streaming service, whether it be spotify.
DJ Mark One: or title, etc, and the only difference is I am controlling the music with this DJ controller so i've logged in to popular tracks into each deck.
DJ Mark One: Which is one of the first jobs as a DJ and, as I said in the in these programs, I get the students and the learners to.
DJ Mark One: Give me the tracks for me to source so it's led by the learner not not myself saying Okay, you must mix these two boring tracks you've never heard before.
DJ Mark One: Otherwise it's easy for them to disengage so i've loaded two tracks in I have matched the tempo so.
DJ Mark One: For anybody that doesn't know every song that has a pulse has a tempo as well, and that is measured in beats per minute, that is, how many kick drums you will hear in a 62nd period has the term beats per minute.
DJ Mark One: tracks in different genres.
Ingram Wright: Of the one to five, I can see on the screen mark.
DJ Mark One: is indeed so we're looking at yeah both of these tracks are hundred and 25 bpm and we have to match the tempo is because I want to blend these tracks over each other.
DJ Mark One: And if we had one track at 125 and the other track and say 100 it's going to sound like you're throwing set of drums down a flight of stairs if i'm honest, so we have the master tempos in order for it to be pleasing.
DJ Mark One: People will know whether they like something or not in terms of performance but they might not know why.
DJ Mark One: I can guarantee nine times out of 10 when someone doesn't like a performance is because the beats are out of sync or the temples aren't aligned.
DJ Mark One: So i'm going to play track, one which will be titanium by David wetter and appropriate time within the waveform i'm going to press play on the next track.
DJ Mark One: sync the beats fade in and then fade up David wetter very, very simple technique which all the learners on our program achieve in less than one and it may sound, a lot, but because they're so enthusiastic and immersed in the in the program and the lesson.
DJ Mark One: This very basic central technique is always.
DJ Mark One: A very basic mixing technique, called the one phrase blend because the intro of the second track kind of length or one phrase in music.
DJ Mark One: And don't you know, there are more.
DJ Mark One: advanced technology already.
DJ Mark One: very wrong.
Ingram Wright: No, sorry mark, I think you get there okay that's fantastic I mean I when I when i've tried to do, obviously you're highly skilled mark, I mean, I suppose, one of the things that.
Ingram Wright: is one of the things that will.
Ingram Wright: Take you to make me feel like i'll never be a decent piano player was to him well.
Ingram Wright: i'm ever going to get to be as good as him, I mean do you do you kind of shy away from showing people.
Ingram Wright: One thing.
Dr Penny Trayner: is breaking up last month me yes sorry.
Ingram Wright: you're just breaking up with it.
Dr Penny Trayner: Was yes.
Ingram Wright: I was just, can I just repeat my question is.
not really.
Dr Penny Trayner: Give it give me a moment.
This is not.
DJ Mark One: have said it out, because that didn't.
Ingram Wright: Did you did you hear my piano story or no.
No.
Ingram Wright: You didn't hear it or read it so okay so mark, one that one that one of the.
Ingram Wright: Questions I had is it is that one of the things when I was learning to play the piano that really made me feel D motivated was watching my piano teacher occasionally play.
Ingram Wright: And thinking there's no way that i'm ever gonna be going to be as good as him, and especially watching you do that very simple.
Ingram Wright: technique, but also clearly very fluidly and with the wealth of experience that you've got.
Ingram Wright: A cautious about kind of teaching in front of some of your clients when you're teaching them is it an issue is it something that comes up for them, do you think.
DJ Mark One: No, not at all if anything it's the exact opposite.
DJ Mark One: i've been teaching children now for around 10 years and, in most cases, I will actually do a very technical set.
DJ Mark One: Where my hands are moving at lightning speed and i'm throwing tracks in and out and using effects and scratching.
DJ Mark One: that's used as a technique to inspire them, because when they're in all of the performance of just seen, I just have to say i'm going to teach you how to do that in a very, very short amount of time, so your obstacle, with the piano playing was you said.
DJ Mark One: You said that you can't do it.
yeah.
DJ Mark One: And then immediately that's your first obstacle, but if you think you can't do something well.
DJ Mark One: Whether you think you can, or you can't you correct, as the as the cliche goes so if you think you can be as good as as your piano player.
DJ Mark One: Then chances are you won't be I inspire the children to say you can be as good as me and i'm going to teach you have a very, very short amount of time.
DJ Mark One: And each lesson they achieve those outcomes and I remind them that they take one step closer to being that.
DJ Mark One: Best DJ in terms of skill set or chain selection, they can possibly be and again it just provides momentum and enthusiasm for the program and for them to be expressive and as creative as they possibly can be.
Ingram Wright: yeah I totally agree, I think, yes I think what I heard was sorry.
Dr Penny Trayner: i'm just gonna say what you saw mark, do you then every single one of our learners access is our program will be doing by the end of the session
Dr Penny Trayner: They will leave with that level of confidence and be able to do that and then it's a matter of like everything else going off and practicing and practicing it with different tracks, but the principles actually the way marks.
Dr Penny Trayner: method of teaching is that once you have acquired the principles it's almost a bit like learning a martial art.
Dr Penny Trayner: Mark not to put you anywhere up there with like Mr miyagi style, but it does feel a bit like that.
Dr Penny Trayner: That you teach us the core principles and you drill them and we go over them we go over them.
Dr Penny Trayner: Much as we would hope people to do as part of rehabilitation say actually it's about learning core principles and applying them applying them applying them again.
Dr Penny Trayner: Until they become you know second nature until they become a procedure that you could perform without even having to think about it.
Dr Penny Trayner: So you do eventually get yourself to a point where you're looking at that waveform.
Dr Penny Trayner: And I remember mark saying this to me when we first met as a container what he's talking about when he said you just look at the waveform and you can see what's coming up now, I can see that.
Dr Penny Trayner: You can look at it and you can predict and think actually that's where i'm probably going to make that track because that's what but that will come it comes, but what you just saw then.
Dr Penny Trayner: ingram when you booking for your lesson next week which i'm sure you're going to be doing on the back you've got the kit you're ready to go.
Dr Penny Trayner: You will be doing that by the end of less than one and maybe you should do a follow up podcast talking about your journey and how you changed by learning to do that skill.
Ingram Wright: Thank you penny i'm really i'm really quick after our conversation to say i'm really quite keen to mark, I will be contacting you after this after this session.
Ingram Wright: and try and move on from the place of found myself stuck in but penny, I want to ask you about.
Ingram Wright: You know how this fits in with your broader perspective on rehabilitation when you where do you.
Ingram Wright: I mean this this strikes me something really quite exciting and innovative and and imagine you know anybody listening to this will will recognize your enthusiasm yours mark clearly informed by.
Ingram Wright: You know, personal experience of engagement and what music bring an A clear enthusiasm to share that with other people, but penny, in terms of the.
Ingram Wright: The work that you do as a as a pediatric euro psychologist and how this fits in with that the sort of the wider work.
Ingram Wright: That you do what sense, where do you place that the DJ is it is, it is it send things what.
Dr Penny Trayner: yeah So where are we, what do you think about that sorry my connections.
Dr Penny Trayner: No it's fine so you know the what what what we do is what we take is what's the skills that mark is training people all the principles and skills and things they are using in those sessions.
Dr Penny Trayner: And then the discussion is about how do we then reply that to real life, what does this tell you about the real world setting.
Dr Penny Trayner: What does this tell you about if you want to get good at whatever it is what you need to do what's helped you what's been beneficial what supported you so on an individual basis.
Dr Penny Trayner: that's how we take it forward and help people generalize their learning and apply it to their everyday life.
Dr Penny Trayner: But it's switched the minus given it purposes made them realize that this is something that can be useful to me and i've got evidence, and you know what.
Dr Penny Trayner: we're hearing yourself playback when you've recorded yourself and you've recorded a whole set and hearing it playback is your evidence you and yeah I can do this it works is a really nice way of feedback.
Dr Penny Trayner: But on a on a wider level, you know I can't remember last count someone in the division of neuropsychology will probably correct me on this I don't think there's many pediatric nurse psychologists I think there's probably under under 40 I think or so on the register.
Dr Penny Trayner: And so there are only so many of us to go around there is only so much rehab we can deliver through this model of delivering one to one rehabilitation.
Dr Penny Trayner: yeah and mark and I share a passion, I think, for making sure that we reach out to as many people as possible, you know, and this is a real mechanism for doing that.
Dr Penny Trayner: So our next step and we're sort of in the in the nearly just about to release this really is to to.
Dr Penny Trayner: Release an online program that people will be able to dial into as mark alluded to we've got all sorts of virtual learning environments and all sorts of things into my last day or this mark and probably get saying too much they stopped me if I am.
DJ Mark One: Not cross the lines of in India yeah.
Dr Penny Trayner: Commercial DJ neuropsychologist when I said great this.
Ingram Wright: Sudden I saw the commercial DJ come out.
Dr Penny Trayner: But that's where we want to take this we want you know anyone around the country anywhere to say Joe I think that this might help my young person or this might help them and I don't in my life, this might be something that I want to do.
Dr Penny Trayner: There are all kinds of adults that have also taken on deadlines, you know the the CEO I think of something like Goldman Sachs is also a DJ which I discovered the other day via linkedin it's fantastic.
Dr Penny Trayner: People are using this in their lives to live better lives, you know, to help give them something to rocks to and also a way to connect with young people so.
Ingram Wright: Our vision is to have a program if the if the CEO of Goldman Sachs would wish, listening to this podcast.
Ingram Wright: email that penny trainer.
Ingram Wright: yeah let her know.
Dr Penny Trayner: That would be great that would be great how amazing if that would happen, I hope so let's manifest that into me.
DJ Mark One: it's always important to mention as well from what penny saying that you know we're partnering with manufacturers of not only DJ controllers but wheelchair controls as well, so.
DJ Mark One: Yes, learners with limited mobility can still engage and can still apply all these mixing techniques and be expressive and creative through.
DJ Mark One: DJ and target learning outcomes, even with with know certain restrictions we're trying to break those boundaries weather isn't a virtual sense or.
DJ Mark One: isn't a limited mobility sense as penny says we want to make this accessible for everybody, as much as possible.
Dr Penny Trayner: No limitations, a mark that's that's the motto.
Ingram Wright: It I mean it's great to hear you say that market it's something you kind of introduce it start in terms of the way that the technology has changed and become much more accessible and so a young person with cerebral palsy who might just be able to move a joystick and move their.
Ingram Wright: Howard wheelchair around is able to access music passively can now be an active producer of music, which is, which is fantastic with some of this kind of technology, which I guess is what you're.
What you're saying, and you came to.
DJ Mark One: me.
Ingram Wright: Thank you, both of you for your time this afternoon it's been a real pleasure talking to you and it's been an education for me and I obviously need marks contact details, so I can put my first lesson.
Dr Penny Trayner: We look forward to seeing you on staging room so yeah that the next next division of neuropsychology conference I reckon will.
Dr Penny Trayner: Be they line up just entirely.
Dr Penny Trayner: Great don't need to hire anyone anymore, we can do ourselves, it will be great but but.
Dr Penny Trayner: But yeah, thank you for inviting us and, like I say, please do reach out to us, I could say week mark and I are both really, really.
Dr Penny Trayner: keen on supporting as many people as possible we've you know, been in discussions with lots of different services, about how we can do some train the trainer training as well, so.
Dr Penny Trayner: it's because actually it's just about making it really is a you know our passion really for this to be as accessible.
Dr Penny Trayner: As it can be, and I can honestly say learn to DJ was life changing for me.
Dr Penny Trayner: meet mark and having his input and his support to build my own DJ career has been life changing for me, so, if I can bring that to other people, as well as helping them along the way they rehabilitation, then you know we definitely winning all the way, so yeah.
Ingram Wright: I tested Thank you penny, and thank you mark.
DJ Mark One: thanks for your time, thank you for having me.
Ingram Wright: So.