Faith and Real Estate: A Coaching Perspective with James Houghtaling

Explore the intersection of faith, diligence, and business success. How do faith and action work together in real estate? In this episode of The Christian Agent Podcast, Garrett Maroon sits down with James Houghtaling, a real estate coach with 28 years of experience.

They discuss how humor builds rapport in coaching, why prayer is a crucial first step, and how agents can overcome financial challenges by tracking conversations and taking consistent action. James and Garrett share personal stories of God’s faithfulness, the importance of setting ambitious goals, and why real estate requires both trusting God and actively pursuing success.

Whether you’re a new agent looking for guidance or a seasoned professional navigating uncertain times, this episode offers biblically grounded wisdom on thriving in real estate while keeping faith at the center.

Key Takeaways:

✅ Real estate is a conversation business—agents must track their outreach.
✅ Prayer is the foundation for navigating challenges in business.
✅ Trusting God doesn’t mean being passive—faith requires action.
✅ The Israelites still had to collect the manna—God provides, but we must do the work.
✅ Many Christian agents struggle with being proactive—diligence is a biblical principle.
✅ Difficult seasons test our faith but also prepare us for greater responsibilities.
✅ God’s faithfulness is evident in both success and hardship.
✅ Setting ambitious goals is important but must be paired with trust in God's plan.
✅ Community and connection are vital for long-term success.
✅ Humor can be a powerful tool in building relationships and trust in coaching.

Episode Chapters:

⏳ 00:00 – Introduction & The Role of Humor in Real Estate Coaching
🎙 04:58 – James Houghtaling’s Coaching Journey & 28 Years of Experience
💰 09:59 – Navigating Financial Challenges in Real Estate
⚖️ 15:00 – Balancing Faith & Action in Business
🏡 18:59 – Why Diligence is Key to Real Estate Success
🙏 21:47 – Faith & Work: A Biblical Perspective on Business Growth
🔥 24:41 – The Testing of Faith in Business Challenges
🙌 27:50 – Trusting God's Faithfulness in Uncertain Times
🎯 30:49 – Setting Goals While Trusting in God’s Plans
📞 34:36 – Connecting with James Houghtaling

Resources & Opportunities:

📩 Are you tired of the hustle? Download my free guide: 3 Lies Christian Agents Believe—and the Truth That Will Set You Free
🔗 https://www.210collective.com/podcast

📞 Want to be in Business with Garrett and Christian agents around the globe? Schedule a call with Garrett to learn about the 2:10 Collective on the eXp Realty platform
🔗 https://calendar.app.google/YmCPQRhWJaV7owmw6

🙌 Join Garrett’s FREE online community for Christian agents who want to sell 3-4 homes/month:
🔗 https://www.skool.com/servingnotselling/about

📩 Send Garrett your Hampton Roads & Richmond, VA buyer/seller referrals:
🔗 faithfulagent.com/referral

📲 Follow Garrett on Instagram for more insights and encouragement!

🔗 https://www.instagram.com/garrettmaroon/

Transcript

0:00

I know record is okay, but if you if you see me lag or something just keep going you're good because what Riverside's doing is it's just always uploading Yep, so just do it. So alright cool. Here we go What's up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Christian Agent. We are glad that you have joined us once again. I've got an incredible guest again for you today, but before I introduce James to you just want to give you a quick quick. Let me restart that. Woo James is gonna be a good one today buddy. Yes. Exactly talking is hard James. That's why you have a speaker development job right is to help people to pronounce those words. That's right. All right, here we go. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of The Christian Agent. I am so glad that you've joined us today. We've got an incredible guest, Coach James. I'm going to introduce him to you here in just a moment. But before I do, as always, housekeeping, if you haven't gone in the show notes and clicked on that free school, SKOOL, that's there. I teach every week on Wednesdays, totally free to help Christian Agents sell three to four homes a month. I would love for you to join us there. And if you're part of it, because I know many of you are, invite your friends. My heart, my goal is to help all Christian agents to become more excellent in the work that they do. That's why we're here. That's why this podcast exists. That's why Coach James is here as well. So I hope you will go click that link and join me. Before I introduce James, now you're going to hear a joke from him before I even tell you about it. But James, why don't you go first? because if yours is really good, I might just not do mine. Cause I don't know how good mine is, but why don't you give us yours first, James? Let's see what you got, brother. Yeah, fair enough. Well, you know, it's interesting because you'd mentioned, and I thought about this, like, sort of a biblical joke, which is always cool. So this is an easy one. And maybe you already know this, Garrett, but do know who the shortest man in the Bible was? No, I don't. Okay, the answer is it was the Centurion because he was found asleep on his watch. There you go, right there, man. No, seriously. That's amazing. Cause I've heard it as like Nehemiah and they're like Nehi, Maya. And you're like, that's a stretch, but I've never heard that. And that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Sleep on his watch. I like that. I like that's good. I'm going to use that now, James. And I'll try to remember to give you credit. Yes. Yes. Thank you. That is quite gracious of you. That's really why we're here. And so I appreciate you sharing that with me. All right, let's see. Let's see. mean, that was better than what I have. Cause like I said, I've been looking for jokes and i don't know james i don't know if this is funny but that's kind of my thing whether it's funny and i have no idea so james why did the man give heaves his wife's wedding ring to the church because the pastor said it was time to take up the offering Ah, the off-her-ring, got it. Yeah, we were talking about stretches. That might qualify as a little bit of a stretch. But hey, we'll roll with it. This is why I miss Tyler, because he would just be like, that was terrible. And he would just say it in front of everybody and it's fine. And it was terrible, but you audience asked for the joke. So, James, yes, do it, please. That's fantastic. Okay. why did the chicken cross the road, roll in the dirt, and then cross back over again? He's just a dirty double crosser. you See what I really want my episodes to be is just us going back and forth on jokes, right? That's really what I want, but you know, I don't know. tells me we'd get a lot of messages about, you guys should keep your day job, but yeah. Or maybe we'd get recognized and we'd make it, man. blow up the show. I mean, I think it's right, know, so my I love watching comedians and you know, like I'm trying to think of what it's called, but there's a clean show on YouTube and whatever now I can't remember what they're called But anyways, and I love watching comedians and I'll watch and I asked my wife one day I was like, I feel like I could have done this right like I feel I love being up in front of people. I love talking whatever Yeah. feel like I do. She said, no, you're not funny. Like, all right, well, okay. Thanks for believing in me. Yes, yes, that's right. them. They're not afraid to tell us the hard truth. To keep us from further embarrassment. That's right. And I know right for you being married, a proud husband of 25 years, you told me a disciple of Christ is the main thing. Someone who makes an impact. That's your hope is how you will be remembered, which I love that brother. I'm so such in line with that. And you're a coach and speaker and the head of speaker development for GloverU, which I know many of our audiences is familiar with, aware of and coaching one of my personal friends, Kit. Metler out in South Carolina. So shout out to you buddy for connecting me and coach James Hotelling. I pronounced that right. think right. I nailed it. Amazing. I am so proud of myself, James, that I did that. But brother, I am so excited that you're here. We've had a chance to connect a few times and it's always been a blessing to me. So brother, please do a quick introduction of yourself and then we will dive right into the show. Yeah, that sounds good. Well, so thank you. First of all, it means a lot that you asked me to even be a part of this. And I love the fact. I love the fact that there is this audience within the real estate space that are devoted to our Lord and Savior. I mean, this is awesome. The fact that there is a Christian element within the real estate. So to speak and so so I'm just happy to be here today. And yeah, I've been a coach and I've been a speaker for almost 28 years. Believe it or not. Started when I was five, but no, that's not exactly true, but I did start fairly. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of coaching the other kids, you know, making sure everybody was staying in line. We had goals then. I mean, that was the important thing when you're five you have goals, man. Tell me. More snacks, that's the goal. So yeah, I've been doing this for a while. I've gotten to coach quite a few people over the years. Single agents, team leaders, broker owners. I've done a little bit of coaching outside of the real estate world, but I would say 98 % of the conversations that I've had over the years have been just one-on-one. I've done a lot of group trainings as well, both for myself when I had my own training company. And back from, let's see, was 2006, from 2006 to 2010. I was actually a coach and speaker for Mike Ferry at that time and he was my mentor when I first got into the business. He was the guy that I really credit my ability to hit the ground running in real estate and to be able to have some success in those early years was that system. And so I spent some time with him but you know, had my own coaching business for quite a few years. And then just a variety of circumstances came into play. had actually coached Jeff Glover. back a number of years ago for about three years and we remained friends. We stayed in touch with each other over an extended period of time. And like I said, it finally kind of made sense for us to come back together, which we did in the summer of 2024. So it hasn't even been quite a year yet, but just so blessed to be a part of that. Like that organization is the real deal. I mean, the quality of the people there, it's second to none. Hmm. Hmm. so just to be able to be a coach on that bunch with all the talent that's there and then also have the opportunity to work with those within the organization who want to become even stronger at presenting and speaking, that's been a real thrill for me as well. So yeah, so that kind of brings you up to speed. No, yeah, it's such a long, know, what's, what's fascinating coaching for 28 years. I mean, you've seen a lot of stuff, right? You, know, the average agent you probably know, but I've been around 11 years and that doesn't feel like that long, quite honestly, knowing, you know, like my business partner has been around for 21 years, but most agents haven't been around very long. And so your, your depth of experience through different markets, through different shifts, through whatever it is that's going on. is fascinating, right? Like I'd love to tap into a little bit of that because, know, one of, so I'll back up and say this for our audience. One of my passions is the, for us to somehow create this Christian real estate economy, right? Meaning when I set out the faithful agent originally, my heart was there are so many amazing people out there, like coach James, like all the other, like coach Monica, who you've heard from. all the different trainers, speakers, brokerages, lenders, title people, it doesn't matter, who love Jesus, but none of us know where they are. We don't know who they are. And so there's all this talent, there's all these amazing people, but we're all spread out. What if we had a way to say, here's where they are, legitimate believers who we know and we've vetted for lack of a better word, know and love Jesus, that we can point you to, right? My heart, cause I know that if I'm an IR coach and it's you, that the money that you're going to make is also get tied back to the Lord. And instead of you giving to Planned Parenthood, you're giving money to your local crisis pregnancy center or whatever the scenario is, right? In your local church body. I absolutely believe we've got to figure that out. so audience hear me when I say, one of the reasons James is here is cause I trust and know him and believe that he really truly loves Jesus and he's excellent at what he does. And so if you're looking for a coach, just look here, right? Look at the people that we bring on the show that we've actually had relationships with. There's more of them. Don't hear me say that I know all of them, but we want to know these people. We want to point to these people. just as a plug here real quick and kind of the vision here, but so I have a question for you, James, because a lot of the conversations I've been having with different members who are part of our 210 collective or just agents I know locally, whatever. is actually had a gentleman reach out to me today. So I'll use this as an example. won't share his name, but reach out to me today. And he said, Garrett, it's just tough right now, man. Honestly, we don't have money. We're really tight. We're barely making it, right? I've got a, you know, I had a closing and I've got another one coming, but that's just paying the bills, man. We're barely making it. I'm thinking about going and taking a nine to five job because I just got to pay the bills. And I feel like that's pretty common and consistent right now in the conversation. My own team, we're slow right now too. I mean, it's pretty normal. to be slow, but a lot of people are hurting. A lot of people are struggling. So we'll just start there, James. If you're coaching someone and they come to you with that, where do you start? How do you help them through that challenge? And this is a believer, right? So speaking to a Christian agent. Yeah, yeah, and that's an important qualification because some of the language and some of the tactics, if you will, I might suggest wouldn't necessarily land or resonate or have the same value, right, with someone that wasn't in that same space. So, see, I think the first thing is, hey, let's go to prayer. Like, there are so many times with my Christian clients where we would just pray and we just ask the Lord to superintend over whatever the situation might be. So in this case, it would really be just starting with bringing this to the Lord, right? Just like Hezekiah, man, he took that scroll, Seneca delivered and he didn't know what to do. He was freaking out so he went into the temple and he unrolled it and he presented to the Lord. Basically he was like, hey, this is your problem, Lord, like you need to figure this out. And so we're bringing it to the Lord because he is our provider, right? So, but then I think just going to the practical level day to day, like let's start with some basic questions. Like honestly, how many people a day are you speaking to about real estate? Because, I mean, again, 28 years doing this, there's been a lot of things that have changed, and there's been a lot of things that haven't changed. And one of the things that has not changed, even with all the technology and all this cool stuff that we have, is it is still a conversation business. Right? Or as Jeff, you know, one of the quote unquote Gloverisms that we use at GloverU is that real estate is a contact sport, because it's all about the conversation. So if an agent comes to me, and they're Struggling right there struggling there. They don't have that flow of business coming in One of the very first questions is gonna be hey be honest with me How many people a day are you actually speaking to about real estate and you know what the most common answer is by the way to that Garrett? No, it's not zero. It's I don't know Because they're not tracking right so you know you can only like you can you can you can influence what you track. We can adjust what we track. And if you're not tracking your numbers, we don't have a baseline. So we need to begin there and say, listen. So then if they don't really know, I'll say, well, give me the best guess. In an average week, how many people, new people, do you think you've talked about real estate? And we try to start with that. And then my first prescription usually is, hey, first of all, how badly do you want? to increase your business. Be honest with me. Is this still something you're passionate about? Is it something you're committed to and dedicated to? And if they are, then I'll say, listen, you need to double or maybe in some cases you need to triple the number of people that you're speaking to. You just have to understand that it's not a glamorous answer. It's not the fun answer that you were hoping to get maybe, but it's the honest answer. there are, and you know what? One of the other assignments I would often give somebody who's concerned about the slowness of the market or struggling is I would say, listen, I want you to go into your MLS and I want you to go back 30 days, maybe even 60 days, and I want you to tell me how many new sales did actually occur in the last 30 to 60 days? How many buyers and sellers did actually get together and put a transaction together? Because I want you to understand it is still happening. Because when we get into our mind that it's slow, we sometimes think in very blanket terms or like there's nothing happening, there's no business out there, and that is not true. And it's important that you start by raising your believability index that there is actually business out there to be had. Right? So if in a given marketplace if there were a hundred deals that went together in the last 30 days, well guess what? Like there was a hundred chances for you to put a deal together and you just simply didn't know who was involved in that. Right? So those would be the first few things. It's like, let's pray, you know, let's be honest about how many people you're actually talking to, and then let's make sure you understand that you're playing in a game that you do actually have a shot at winning, because there is business happening out there. You're just not involved in I think it's fascinating. I love that perspective, right? Of look at the deals. They're actually going on. It's definitely true. If we believe the market is slow and it's slower than it normally is, whatever your perspective is, especially if you came in during COVID, my lead agent did, and he's like, this is wildly slower. Yeah, guess what? Now houses sit on the market and that's a new skill you got to learn, right? And helping them through that. But when we convince ourselves it's just slow, It often means now I get to take my foot off the pedal, right? I tend to find in myself too, my nature is when it's slower, it's like, okay, now this is a rest season and there's nothing wrong with resting per se, but I'm now diligent 11 years in to say, but I'm still doing all of the lead gen I know I need to do, right? I might not be, and I've been out of production for two years, but I might not be out showing houses, right? I might not be doing appointments, whatever. And so I will take that time to enjoy with my family and rest, but. I'm doing the activity to push my business forward and I'm gonna make sure I do that. Now, my question to you is James, because I think as believers we've got this interesting dynamic where we both, well, we don't fully trust by any means, we never will, but we are trying to trust that the Lord says he's going to provide and balance that with how much activity I need to get out there and do, right? So, you know, I don't know, there's no magic formula that we often have a conversation, my business partner and I have. How much do we need to do and how much do we just need to pray and where's that balance, right? And I think we need to do both. But a lot of agents will say, well, I feel like I've done what I need to do and it's just not happening, man. So maybe I, you know, we fall into despair or I just need to go get a job again. That's what this brother was saying. I just need to go get a job. And like, I both get that from a perspective of take care of your family. And, but I also, my encouragement to him was, brother, this is a time for you. If you need to go, drive door dash, then do it. Don't go tie up your time with nine to five. I still think real estate is your future. And if you think that too, then don't tie yourself up. But, but also brother, this is a time for you to lean into trusting the Lord when he said he was going to provide for you. How do we do that though, James? What does that look like from a Christian? If you are coaching and saying, you just need to have more conversations and they're like, yeah, but the Lord's just going to provide. How do you get them unstuck, right? Because we can rely on that maybe too much. Again, I don't know where the line is there, but does that question make sense? Yeah, no, it does, for sure. And there is an unknown there, because his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are far above our thoughts, right? But again, one thing that I remember hearing years ago that I loved from one of my favorite Bible teachers, Greg Laurie, and he said that we should never be afraid to trust an unknown future to a known God. And I always loved that because That speaks to our uncertainty. And psychologically speaking, the greatest human need that we have, the way that we're wired, the way that the Lord wired us, is we have a need for certainty. Right? We want to know. And that's where our faith sometimes hits a wall, because you can only have so much certainty. And when we get into a space where we're uncertain, that starts to create anxiety and... all of these things and that's where the Lord says, hey, you need to trust me, right? Like, you, you know, you don't need to know all the stuff that's coming down the pike, but I know it and you just need to trust. And so there is that element where we do need to rest. However, I mean, if you look at the Israelites, like, he provided the manna, but they had to go collect it. Like, it didn't just show up in a neat little package, door-dashed right to their tent. You know what I'm saying? Like, they still had to go out and do the work and collect it. Okay? So, There is that where we have our part to do. Like we have to still go work. Even Paul said that. Like if you man won't work, you shouldn't eat. And so, I mean, if real estate is still your thing, or it's at least part of your thing, then you still have to, excuse me, you have to go and make those calls and get into those conversations and, you know, trust that the Lord is going to open some doors as you go do your part that, okay, there'll be some opportunities that... he uncovers for you that are gonna lead to maybe a new listing or a new sale or whatever the case might be. we can't just, you know, the joke is always the name it and claim it, blab it and grab it, where it's just like, I'm just putting this out there and I'm just gonna sit back and I'm gonna wait for my inbox to fill up with DMs from buyers and sellers and that's not how it works, right? So. a post. So where are the clients? Yeah, I made a reel. Where is everybody? Right, right. I had a friend. Well, I didn't like him that much. So let's be honest. In college, this guy who was a believer in his whole approach, James, he wanted to find a wife, right? And his whole approach was I'm going to sit here and I'm going to pray for the Lord to bring her. And we're like, his name is jeff like jeff you gotta go meet people you should probably be out and about is like no no no i'm gonna pray the lord is gonna bring her to me and i remember even as a college kid i didn't know anything i've been as a college get even thinking okay i guess it's possible to work to do whatever you want but that's not how this works and it is so much right right exactly where he will make her for you right right that's right seriously right and so That is often the real estate. I find that we have one of two things, right? And I don't know, right? But my perception, and you've been around longer than me, James, but my perception is if I'm going to just be very broad and generalized, right? It does not apply to everybody, is that Christian agents I know tend to be less active than the non-Christian who tends to be overly active, right? Because the non-Christian thinks it's all up to me because there's no... hope or reliance on anything else. The believer is, I'm a believer, therefore the Lord's going to provide so he should take care of me. I can be less than excellent and it's okay. And neither one of those are appropriate or correct. But I think Christians tend to just be lazy. I mean, we just do, we're lazy about it. And so how do we get out from being unstuck? And I think part of that is the despair or the lie or the belief, whatever, that we say, well, this is just not for me, it's not working. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, if you take the whole Council of God, right, which is not just New Testament, but it's Old Testament, and you see in the Proverbs, there's multiple places where it's very clear that the Lord calls us to be diligent. and he points to the example of the ants who collect and work in the summertime to store up for the winter. And there's this principle that just goes through really all of scripture that we're called to be diligent. We're called to be the best representatives of the Lord. again, anything that you find to do, do it heartily as unto the Lord. And I mean, Paul was... he was a tent maker. Like, he would work with his hands and actually mend and create, you know, tents and do whatever he had to do during the day so that he didn't have to depend on the local church to provide for his food and his needs. Like, he earned a living for himself. And, you know, it's funny, I was just asking, I was just talking about this with, I don't even know who I was talking one of my Christian brothers or clients or whatever. We were kind of joking about this whole balance you're talking about with work versus maybe your ministry or whatever the case might be. It's like, know, when did Paul know that it was time to put down the tent and head down to the synagogue to start preaching? How did he know how many more tents he needed to work on for the day or whatever? Either way, the example, I think, is pretty clear. That, yes, the Lord is faithful to bless those things that we put our hands to, but we're still called to put our hands to something. You know, put your hands on the plow and don't take your hands off the plow. So you've to work. Like, you do have to go out, unfortunately, or fortunately, whatever, and earn that living. But trusting that because you serve a generous God that he will open doors. He will bring things to happen. And sometimes, listen, there are times where he's going to test us. You know, part of my story was back in 2006, in the early part of 2006, end of 2005 into 2006, I had had my own, there was a good friend of mine and I, he's another brother in Christ. We had a coaching and speaking company, starting in the late 90s. And we went through working together till about 2003. And then we had an amicable parting. still best friends to this day, but we just went different directions. And I went on my own. So I had my own solo coaching business starting in 2003. And you know, did okay, did well. And at the end of 2005, in fact, I think I still have it somewhere in my archives, I made this spreadsheet and I set my goals up for the first 45 days of 2006 that I wanted 15 new coaching clients, right? And I had this whole plan. And basically what happened in the first 45 days? is I didn't get any clients, like none. I mean, it was very evident that things were drying up and I soon realized that the Lord was doing this. There was a reason, and it was a very tough season, you know, going into the second half of 2006 with very, very little business. But what I, in hindsight, realized, it was that test of faith. And it was in August of 2006 when the Lord opened the door and my first wife, Sabrina, reached out to me directly and said, hey, We know who you are. We need a coach. We need a speaker. Are you interested?" And I mean, that opened a totally new chapter of my life, obviously, in a whole new realm of experience. But again, it was that trusting. And I'm not saying I was fully trusting. Like, there were a lot of times where I was like, what is going on, Lord? Like, I can't believe it's been this long and I still, you know, going through savings and like, this doesn't make any sense. And all those same questions that... that you were talking about that everybody asked, like, why, Lord, what's the purpose? What is going on? You sometimes even find yourself getting a little angry, right, and upset, if we're being honest. But again, in hindsight, it was the stretching and the testing of faith. And I think for some agents, that's maybe where they find themselves today. Yeah, and I love that story because it's also if your business was going well, probably not probably you might have turned it down, right? Who knows? And it is just a reminder, obviously easier for all of us when we look back versus looking ahead and being in it, right? Is the reality of the Lord's always working and in Romans eight, he's always working for our good, right? Doesn't mean it feels good. We misunderstand that as if that means everything is going to go well and I'm to be super successful. That's not what it means. It means he's going to make us like Christ, right? But everything's working for our good. And we have to remember that in the hard seasons. You know, I find myself when, when seasons are hard, can become, instead of being prayerful, I can become ambivalent, right? And just, well, whatever, we'll get through it. It's happened before. We'll be fine. As opposed to letting it lead me to the Lord, right? And say, Lord, we're trusting you in this and, and being more prayerful about it. Right. That's a challenge that I have and you know, whatever everybody has doesn't matter. This show is about me confessing James and that's pretty much what every episode is. So, but the reality of just showing up and being prayerful, but for you to be able to look back and say, well, this is what the Lord was doing. We don't always get that right. Of course, sometimes just hard, but in the Old Testament, again, I love personally, I love the Old Testament because I love the stories. I love like, that's what I'm teaching my kids through. Mostly it's just the stories. I don't know. I love it. I love so much about it, but the Israelite such a great example. So many times the Lord or someone the Lord is using has to remind the Israelites, remember who the Lord is and his faithfulness there and his faithfulness here and his faithfulness there. He's not, they're not often saying, or ever if I recall, but there's not often saying this is exactly what's about to happen. We don't know that, right? But we do know who the Lord is and his character. And we can look back at the times in our lives when we trusted him and when he's proven that he's trustworthy. And that's an amazing thing. You know, I often describe real estate and to a believer, James, and I say, look, here's why I think, because you alluded to this earlier. Here's why I love Christians being in real estate or in business in general, but for us in real estate. Here's why I love it because it takes faith in the Lord that you're what you're about to do. You're going to walk into a room. It's going to be pitch black. There's a light switch somewhere, you have no idea where it is, there's stuff in your way, and no one's going to tell you where to go. You have to walk through that room in faith and trust that the Lord's going to show you eventually where the light switch is and you can turn it on. But you don't know how long that's going to take, you don't know what's going on in the room, you don't know what's happening in the room, but you have to walk into chaos and you have to figure out how to create order. And that's a good thing because it forces you to rely and trust in the Lord. And so, brother, sister, whatever. I think you're uniquely suited for this kind of responsibility to be in this kind of role because you know the one who knows where the light switches and can turn it on at any point, right? But we find ourselves often in despair. And so when things aren't going our way, right? We set a goal, 45 days, more coaching clients, it doesn't come. And then we think, okay, I either did something wrong or maybe I'm not made for this or whatever it is. When we get in those moments, when you've looked back at moments, let me ask a better question. When you looked back at moments, like that James, is it because you think that you set a goal that maybe you shouldn't have? Is it because you felt like you didn't do the work? it because whatever we do, the Lord's gonna determine the outcome anyways, which that is true. But can you look back and say, maybe I put myself, my feet were before the Lord where he wanted me to be. Can you pinpoint what's going on there? Or is it just like, that's just the thing the Lord did. I mean, I don't think it's wrong as a business owner to set ambitious goals. you obviously want to prayerfully set those goals. I mean, the Lord definitely, you know, he is Like there's plenty of examples, right, of people that he has used to expand, like, what am I trying to say, like their holdings, so to speak. I you think of Abraham, you think of Job, you think of some of these people that were very well blessed financially, and they were allowed to sort of expand and some of these things, but they did it in a spirit of humility, and they did it knowing that it was the Lord that was doing it. And so, I don't know that it's, I don't believe that it's wrong to set goals like that, to say, you know what, I really want to go take this island and I'm going to, this is what it's going to look like and obviously I'm going to give the glory to the Lord. But I think there's a lot of times where the Lord lets us do that. It's like, okay, yeah, go ahead. And he already knows, like, that's not what's going to work out. But he's like, okay, you go ahead and that's your plan and that's your goal. And then he's like, I'm going to show you something and I'm going to come in and I'm going to interrupt that. and I've got a different plan for you. But I feel like it was important in that moment to, I guess, set that, make that goal and then watch things not work out. mean, again, it was all sort of the testing of the faith. And basically, at the end of the day, he could say to me, okay, like, I could have allowed that to happen, but look at, and you sort of alluded to this as, like, this was a better outcome. Rather than just you staying kind of your own little one-man show and having some moderate success because in life I think a lot of times the most glaring inhibitor to big success is moderate success. Right? And so he had a bigger stage for me. But as you said, even if I'd gotten 10 or 12 of those clients and then I continued to grow, I probably wouldn't have. Because listen, there have been times in... you know, let's say back from maybe somewhere in the 2014 to 2018 timeframe where I was approached by some other big organizations to go and work for them and be a coach. And frankly, one of them was Jeff. And I turned it down because it didn't make sense because my business was doing so well. And I was kind of like, well, why would I turn off, like turn this off and then go hop into this when I don't really know where that's going to lead. So, And quite frankly, that was part of what made things work out this time with Jeff, was that my business was starting to shrink again a little bit. And Lord was kind of using that to get my attention because he had another place to move me to that I probably wouldn't have moved to on my own if the current environment didn't become a little bit uncomfortable. Hmm. So good. mean, it's just a, like I'm encouraged hearing that James and thinking of for myself, for the people that I talk to on a regular basis as well. mean, the Lord is always preparing us for something and it's always for eternity. Number one, we know that's true, but it's also always for something else that he has, you know, the, the, I'm wearing the shirt. We're launching a team. Me and my, brother, the two 10 realty group, right? Ephesians two 10, the good works. The Lord has prepared beforehand for us to walk in. He's always preparing us for those things. He's molding us. He's shaping us. He's getting us ready. Exactly what you said. If you're an agent and you're struggling or you know somebody that is, the Lord's getting your attention for something and it's first so that you learn to trust and rely on Him. And I'm constantly amazed, James, when I think things are hard. My assistant, my executive assistant lives in the Philippines, Kay, and she's amazing. I love her. She loves Jesus. Yeah. what I think is hard is not what she thinks is hard. What I think is hard, she would say is amazing, right? And easy and the challenges we have and X, Y, and Z. And here she is at age 38, right? My age and is a believer trying to buy her first home, which is a one room house and can't afford a car, but hopefully one day will. And you think about, again, it's not, I have to be reminded in that scenario. Number one, I want to bless her, but for me to say, okay, Lord, one of the ways I can, be reminded of just your faithfulness to me is look where I live. Look at the opportunity that I have. I got to wake up today and think about, I build something? Not, am I going to have food tonight? Or do I have a roof? Like if you think about the faithfulness of God, you don't even have to go further than that. Right? And what an incredible truth that is. And you've seen that over 28 years of coaching time and time again, the Lord's faithfulness to agents, to whoever. right into yourself over and absolutely over and over and over again so man brother i'll let you he's never not provided, you know, I mean, there's been times where it was like really lean and fearful, but never once has he just abandoned me to, you know, complete poverty or whatever the case might be, you know. awesome. he gets all the credit for that. And I'm continuously confessing that, that, Lord, it's not about my wisdom. There's so many times where I'll be prepping for my calls for the day and it's like, Lord, I don't know what to tell these people. I don't know what to add. There's times where I'm just like, I'm out of wisdom. I'm out of information. But yet I still have a heart to, I want to help. I want to show up and I want to give them the the very best, right? But I just don't know. I don't know the answers. And so it's just like, all right, Lord, this is another chance for you to kind of give me that word of knowledge or that insight or whatever that little thing is that is gonna impact them and make some, you know, give some value, right, for those people. Excuse me. No, no, you're good brother. I was gonna ask you a question when I think listen on that because I love that. Such a good reminder. The Lord's never not been faithful. That's who He is. That's the reminder we see all throughout Scripture. Praise Him that, you you talked about Abraham. I'm teaching my kids right now in our family worship time about Abraham, right? God makes this covenant promise with him and then what does he do? You know, basically the next thing in the story is he goes to the Egyptians, he lies about Sarai being his wife or being his sister instead and and the Lord remained faithful despite Abraham's lack of trust and faithfulness. And so that's who he is. He just is faithful. And it doesn't mean it's going to go the way we want it to go, but it does mean he is who he says he is. So, man, what a great reminder, James. Brother, if someone wants to connect with you or they're looking for coaching or whatever, how would they get a hold of you? What's the best way to do that? Yeah, definitely GloverU. Just connect with GloverU, reach out to them, and ask whatever you need to ask about the options that are available as far as coaching. We have a number of different things that you can be a part of to help grow your business. if you decided that, hey, you specifically would want to have me as your coach, then you make that request. And I would say the vast, vast majority of the time. they will honor the request of the person that's signing up for the coaching, to give them the coach that they've requested. So that's it. It's just connect that way. Obviously you can follow me. Admittedly, I'm definitely not an influencer. Part of me would like to say, man, I want to go that direction. But I'm not all over social media, but you can certainly connect with me on Instagram, the one coach James. It's the number one, the number one coach James. You can connect with me there on Facebook. It's just, just search me. You'll find me obviously on Facebook. But yeah, if you're interested in exploring, actually working together, reach out to GloverU and they'll take care of it from there. Love that brother. And you're on stage and you can go check out their events. You can meet James there, right? There's multiple ways to do that as well. Yeah, for anybody that might be watching this or listening to this that is a leader, right? In other words, you've got a team and you you want to advance your growth as a team or you're looking to increase per person production, profitability. We have a really cool event coming up in about 30 days, a little over 30 days called Lead Up. It's our East Coast Lead Up. So you can always look up information on that. We do have our next our next big event coming up is in June, June 17 through the 20th I believe in Traverse City, Michigan. It's our Live Unreal retreat. And then there's going to be about 30 to 40 tour stops that'll take place. They're a little three and a half hour info sessions where you learn some really cool stuff and you're invited to attend the retreat. But those are going to be happening all over the U.S. and Canada from probably late April to early June. So we got a lot of stuff going on out there you can find on the event calendar. That's awesome. And if any of the speakers aren't great, you can blame James. That's his job now. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. That's all your fault. No, James, man, I appreciate you being on brother genuinely. I just admire your heart. I admire what you've done in the industry and thank you for continuing to just show the love of Christ to the people that you coach and interact with in that community. we need more like you. And so I praise God for the work that you're doing. Christian agents, we love you. We will see you next week. Make sure to go check out the stuff. It's all in the show notes. Make sure to check it out. love you. see you next week. Absolutely.