The neXt Curve reThink Podcast
The official podcast channel of neXt Curve, a research and advisory firm based in San Diego founded by Leonard Lee focused on the frontier markets and business opportunities forming at the intersect of transformative technologies and industry trends. This podcast channel features audio programming from our reThink podcast bringing our listeners the tech and industry insights that matter across the greater technology, media, and telecommunications (TMT) sector.
Topics we cover include:
-> Artificial Intelligence
-> Cloud & Edge Computing
-> Semiconductor Tech & Industry Trends
-> Digital Transformation
-> Consumer Electronics
-> New Media & Communications
-> Consumer & Industrial IoT
-> Telecommunications (5G, Open RAN, 6G)
-> Security, Privacy & Trust
-> Immersive Reality & XR
-> Emerging & Advanced ICT Technologies
Check out our research at www.next-curve.com.
The neXt Curve reThink Podcast
Leading Analyst's Recap Intel Vision 2025
Karl Freund of Cambrian-AI Research, Jim McGregor of Tirias Research, and Dave Altavilla of HotTech Vision and Analysis joined Leonard Lee of neXt Curve at the Virgin Hotel in Las Vegas to recap @Intel's Vision 2025 event.
This episode covers:
➡️ Key impressions of the Intel Vision 2025 event.
➡️ The "New Intel" strategy of Lip-Bu Tan, Intel's new CEO.
➡️ Intel's AI strategy from a data center perspective.
➡️ 18A upon which Intel's hopes and future leadership hang.
➡️ Intel's less than compelling AI strategy and vision.
➡️ The diversity of AI and the heterogeneous present and future of AI compute.
➡️ The incremental Intel vibe of Vision 2025.
➡️ The fate of Intel Foundry - Killing the rumor.
➡️ The state of Intel's DCAI (Data Center & AI) business.
➡️ Intel Vision 2025 in a word.
Hit Leonard, Jim, Dave, and Karl up on LinkedIn and take part in their industry and tech insights.
Check out Karl and his research at Cambrian AI Research LLC at www.cambrian-ai.com.
Check out Jim and his research at Tirias Research at www.tiriasresearch.com.
Check out Dave Altavilla and his research at www.hottech.com.
Please subscribe to our podcast which will be featured on the neXt Curve YouTube Channel. Check out the audio version on BuzzSprout or find us on your favorite Podcast platform.
Also, subscribe to the neXt Curve research portal at www.next-curve.com for the tech and industry insights that matter.
Hey everybody, this is Minor Lee, executive Analyst at Ncur, and welcome to this episode of the Ncur Rethink Podcast. It is our Silicon Future series that we do in collaboration with Cambrian AI research with Carl Floyd and uh, Dave Ulta via of hot tech, hot tech,
David Altavilla:vision and
Leonard Lee:analysis. Yeah. Nice. A new edition for this episode. And of course the missing. Missing Jim. The missing Jim
David Altavilla:McGregor.
Leonard Lee:McGregor
David Altavilla:Research, which means we can talk about him. I know
Karl Freund:we're in a bar, maybe he's drinking.
Leonard Lee:Yeah, we can say
David Altavilla:bad things about him. He's not here.
Leonard Lee:But, before we get started, remember to like, share and subscribe to Next Curve Briefing, podcast. And also later on we'll provide you with some information to, connect with my colleagues here. But. Please remember that, the, comments as well as opinions of my colleagues here are entirely their own and of their own respective firms and not reflective with next curve. And,
David Altavilla:uh, I don't usually agree with. Agree with him anyway. Yeah, I
Leonard Lee:never agree with him. We do that because I don't agree with these dudes at all. You know, it's ridiculous. But, um, we are here at Intel Vision in Vision 2025 in Las Vegas, taking place here at the Virgin Hotel. And we are in a bar and we are about to share our hot takes. Not hot takes actually semi cold. It's like warm maybe. Yeah.
David Altavilla:Yeah.
Leonard Lee:From the event. And this is the first one
Karl Freund:with Lapu featuring
Leonard Lee:Yeah. Amp, newly CEO. Yeah.
David Altavilla:Labutta. Yep. A new CEO of Intel taking over for Bat Gelsinger.
Leonard Lee:Yes. And so it's actually a pretty big deal. It's a big deal. That one factor just makes this a very interesting vision for the company. Does. Yeah. Uh, it's
Karl Freund:probably not fair to hold him up to too high standard. He's only been on the job for 14 days. Yeah.
David Altavilla:He's still drinking from the fire hose. He's still
Karl Freund:drinking from the fire hose. He, but he laid out a very simple strategy. He's gonna focus on culture, he's gonna focus on customers, he's gonna focus on engineering. All his keynote was about those three things. Yeah. but there were hints. There were hints in there about what he's might be thinking about. I don't think he's made up any key decisions yet, but he's getting, he's got his work cut out for him and it's,
David Altavilla:yeah, he's passionate about client computing, of course, which obviously right now is paying the bills for Intel. He's passionate about. Well, a theme, he talked about was robotics, surprisingly. So maybe that's a field they're getting into something new. But he's also a little bit more pragmatic and measured in his approach, I think. And his predecessor, he seems, just a little bit more. I don't know wanna say reserved, but pragmatic. Humble, I think is the word. Humble. Humble. He used certainly humble.
Karl Freund:He used humble several times. Yes, he did. Humility several times.
David Altavilla:Humility and humble. Yeah.
Karl Freund:And I think that's an important change in the culture. He's gonna try to, he's going to establish an intel. I don't think you can. I was having a conversation with somebody at today says, you can't. Teach people new culture. He thought, well, that means you gotta replace it. But he also said he is gonna keep the key talent. He's not gonna let the key, it's key talent go. And that's very important. Yeah. but I suspect there's, he also mentioned the balance sheet several times.
Leonard Lee:Yeah. Many, many times.
Karl Freund:Well. The reason you focus on getting your balance sheet held healthy is because you might want to do acquisitions. Yeah. Right. And that's another way to fix the culture. You buy the culture you want lip boo. And his, his investment firm. Yeah. He's invested. In hundreds. Literally hundreds. I Googled it before this to make sure I was right. Uh hundred. Actually, I didn't Google that. Perplexity that.
Yeah, if
Karl Freund:that's a verb. I had hundreds of companies that he's invested in. So he has a network is truly impressive. Yeah. So he will have. Access to both talent and new technologies that he could acquire or mimic, to try to turn the company around. The other thing that really struck me, I had a conversation with one of his key executives this afternoon and I asked him how he could contrast his strategy with a MD and he said, we are not. Going to be a close follower. Okay? That means you're either going to be a loser, which I don't think he's planning or it means you're gonna be a leader. And so I started asking questions about what that means from an AI architecture. And, uh, he has some very interesting ideas I haven't heard from anybody else.
Yeah.
Karl Freund:Um, I'll write about them on my Forbes article or, okay. I can share'em here if you want. Uh, you can go
Leonard Lee:ahead and share if you want. Obviously we want, I don't want you to have an open forum Okay. To share your perspective.
Karl Freund:Well, if you think about it, what AMD's doing and what. Intel had been doing, yeah. Is trying to outdo Vidia at being Nvidia. I don't think they do that. No, you can't.
David Altavilla:Not at this point. not at this point, right. Yeah. So too much critical mass there.
Karl Freund:We'll see where he takes it. But instead of just doing big GPUs with lots of. Of HBM and really fast networking think the question he was asking is, does the shift to smaller models change the infrastructure that's really required to do world class inferencing? And you can imagine all kinds of things that they could change. If he can get the latencies throughput, he needs to build,, world class ai.
David Altavilla:Yeah, yeah. For me,, it's interesting you mentioned the engineering talent. He focused on retaining the engineering talent. That they have now that's working, that's getting the job done. Enhancing it for sure. I got that. And I think as you noted, through his network of acquisitions and certainly in the chip industry his tenure at Cadence brings a lot of connections with it too. Yeah. Then the other thing for me was a focus on client. There was a lot of focus on client. There was focus on data center Two, they talked about Zion six. They talked about driving that roadmap. But Panther Lake on 18 A is alive and well and strong. They're very confident. I was talking with Jim Johnson, of client computing as well on the side earlier today. 18 A is looking very good. The defect density at this point in time, they've shown it, in little. Spots, but doing very, very well. In fact,
Karl Freund:They announced today that it has entered, risk production.
Right?
Karl Freund:Which, which is a big deal for a semiconductor company. That means, the chip works, it can work the power and, you know, it can deliver performance. You've still got some corner cases you need to test for and so forth, but it means the chip was ready for early customer access. Yep. And shifts from maybe a couple of thousand dyes to maybe tens of thousands of dyes. Yeah. Yeah. That would allow people to test more at scale. So that's a huge move for 18 a. Yeah. Which the company's pretty much bet its future on.
David Altavilla:Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. If Panther Lake executes well, performs well, and 18 a, performs well. They're back. that's gonna be a stake in the sand, at least in client computing. They've got, they've got work to do in the data center, which they know well.
Karl Freund:And the work in the data centers been compounded by their own mistakes, right? They started out with Multicore. Yeah. And then they acquired Nirvana and then they threw that out with the bath water and then they acquired. Habana Labs, which one could argue is it's over. gouty three actually is being deployed now at, at I-B-M-I-B-M Cloud.
Yeah.
Karl Freund:Uh, so IBM chose GOUTY three as their primary accelerator now in the IBM Cloud. So there's definitely something there that, oh, there's Jim McGregor. Yeah,
David Altavilla:there's Jim. He's a little tardy. Speed. A little tar. Jim, are you gonna
Leonard Lee:get in here or what? Tardy man.
Karl Freund:We're already
David Altavilla:recording. Dude. We're already recording. He's late. He's late. Give him a mic. Give him a mic. And let him rip. Let him get in.
Karl Freund:Yeah. So are we doing it without me already? You don't need, well
David Altavilla:go ahead. You go. Time's a wasted dude. We're not gonna get, yeah, we're. We're lighting our feet here. Don't fall though. Don't knock over the cameras. Are you guys doing vision on Yeah,
yeah, yeah,
David Altavilla:yeah. We're talking vision. Don't
try to be so sexy. I'm sure. Leonard. Leonard, you cut all this stuff. Oh, it's the purple shirt. Jim will just magically appear. A little bit of both. Yeah. Yeah. So.
David Altavilla:Okay. Of course. Where was I? Where was I? Now we just, you're talking about splice it back in. Oh
Karl Freund:yeah. So now they've canceled the replacement for HaBO Labs, gouty three, which was Falcon Chores. So they've got a lot of work to do, both in terms of hardware and software, but also in custom retention. Maybe some of, lip boo's, prior basketball. Skills will, come in, come to play as he tries to herd the customers that are adopting Gouty three. Yeah. Yeah. And getting them to wait and hang on for,
Leonard Lee:yeah.
Karl Freund:And Jaguar short.
Leonard Lee:But I am really glad that you brought, you had that conversation regarding the ai, um, strategy because, I mean, I'll be. Quite honest, what I heard up on stage, it sounded more like bottom feeding approach. It wasn't very an aggressive strategy that they were laying out. It's more enterprise.
David Altavilla:Yeah. It's, it's inference going after the The versus training application. Yeah. Right.
Leonard Lee:Right. But agreed. You look at it from a big picture, it, it wasn't a compelling, mission that was putting out Yeah. It wasn't. It's like, we'll try to figure out where we fit, but then I was quite honestly expecting something a little bit more bold from him, given his perspective or what we might assume would be a hate or Yeah. Have informed and holistic, I think. Yeah.
David Altavilla:Situation. But, I think two weeks in, he's just being a little bit, he on the
Karl Freund:board. Yeah. Yeah. Was That's true.
David Altavilla:That's true. A lot. Yep.
Karl Freund:He was on the board let's until last
David Altavilla:fall. You're true, not ignorant. Very true situation. I, from
Karl Freund:one of his executive, his engineering executives about what? Maybe they're thinking about it from an engineering standpoint, and by, by not following closely, uh, you're gonna see some different approaches. So maybe you don't need bigger GPUs. Maybe you don't need high bandwidth memory. Maybe you don't need NVLink performance and see that Do enter.
Leonard Lee:That's what I thought was cool to hear that was, that you had that kind of conversation and that was what was Yeah. Bring up and change questions because I think those are important questions because one of the things I heard during this conference is that AI is, diverse and that connotes hetero genius. Yep. Connotes different types that need different types of compute and so Right. This whole GPU centric mindset that we've been, basically settled into, because a big green guy Yep. Think, in is dominated the way that we think about
Karl Freund:AI
Leonard Lee:computing. Yep.
Karl Freund:So in the last couple years,
David Altavilla:the green guy. The green guy. Incredible
Karl Freund:Hulk.
David Altavilla:Yeah,
Karl Freund:incredible.
David Altavilla:Hu
Leonard Lee:was talking. I
Karl Freund:haven't heard Jensen call the credible Hulk. I've heard other things, but I haven't heard him talking. You know, I'm really afraid
Leonard Lee:I'm sitting right next to it.
David Altavilla:No, I know. Something silly. He'll really get whack. Yeah. Yeah. He might, might stab you or something. Yeah.
Leonard Lee:You know, he's like really loose with his, uh, yeah. And yeah, his fist. So he's, yeah. Pointy stuff. But, uh, yeah. So what did, what did you think? I feel like shaking his head while I'm talking. It's like,
Jim McGregor:I don't know what you guys have talked about so far, but I think that, that he's reiterated the same thing he did in his, letter to investors, right. Obviously I think he's got a strategy or what he thinks is strategy, but he's still talking and talking to customers, talking to people within Intel. A lot of the Intel executives haven't even met with him yet. Yeah. So he's still making sure that, what's his idea, the right strategy? Yeah. They expect to see that, obviously, focusing on customers, focusing on, core products. We'll have to see how that extends to other markets like automotive. Yep. Some other segments. He's mentioned robotics. Yeah. He's definitely doubling down on Foundry. Yeah, I think that's really good. And even mentioned, possibly bringing on more talent. Yeah. To really, push foundry. So I don't see a big shift in strategy. He wants to be more entrepreneurial, so he's talked about maybe cutting out later. So I would expect that, just trying to reorganize Intel to be a little bit more reactive to larger conditions. Yeah. I don't know that, and this is gonna take time. We're at Intel vision, but I don't think we really saw the vision yet But I think that will come and I think that's really what everyone's really hoping Yeah. In the next six months at least. I,
Karl Freund:I agree. I, but I think that the things you just mentioned and the things that we've heard here. All feel very incremental to me.
Jim McGregor:Yeah.
Karl Freund:And, they're the things you would expect a new CEO to say, after 14 days on the job. I get that. Yeah. Yeah. But as you point out, he was, he's on the board. Well, so it's not like he doesn't know Intel. So I think. I think they've got some stuff up their sleeves they're not talking about yet. They've got some they're gonna do, they're gonna surprise people or frankly they're gonna become irrelevant.
Jim McGregor:And, and knowing his background, I would expect that you're going to see some acquisition strategists Yes. In there. Yes. As well as divestitures. Yes. So I would expect that you're going to see drastically different intel within the next two degrees. Yeah. And
David Altavilla:I think you have to be careful when you say he was on the board because. Just as you noted Jim, he has to meet with all the product line executive VPs. He has to see exactly how the sausage is currently being made. And boards don't always know that what's,
Karl Freund:well,
David Altavilla:boards don't always know that, right? No. No, they don't. And yeah. He's gotta meet, he's gotta rationalize, he's gotta, really just get into the weeds Yeah. With all the different product line directors and, and bu and figure out, what the path forward is. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, talking to, talking to, to JJ and client. Um, they are very excited moving forward. 18 a, an lake, as I mentioned, they're excited about simple stuff like vPro, single sign on for vPro, which hasn't really been a big thing. You know, it's been one of those things where Intel's always led in the enterprise, but. Enabling it at the fleet level was very complicated and hard to roll out. And now it's like they're making it more push button.
Leonard Lee:But you know, it's the simple stuff for these guys that really count. Yeah. I mean, like, we covered this, coming out of, cyber Yeah. Tech, tour, right? Yeah.
David Altavilla:ITT.
Leonard Lee:Yeah. And when, they went into detail about Lunar Lake, we said, Hey, if they execute on this needs, it's gonna be a really good thing for that're shipping a ton of it. Right. And then o obviously Panther Lake mean it's a pivotal, it's a pivotal Yeah. Generation.
David Altavilla:Yeah.
Leonard Lee:You know,
David Altavilla:on their
Leonard Lee:roadmap.
David Altavilla:So
Leonard Lee:not product, but also the,
David Altavilla:for the fab, we were talking about that earlier. Yeah.
Leonard Lee:So let's talk about the fab real
David Altavilla:quick.
Leonard Lee:What did you guys think? Because right now I, we still have a lot of, rumors out there that it, it's gonna get spun out or
Jim McGregor:they can't. No
Leonard Lee:way.
Jim McGregor:No way. Yeah. I just wanna kill
David Altavilla:this. Yeah, kill it. Kill it with fire. Just so ridiculous. You
Jim McGregor:can't sell it to a foreign because you have the US and all European government SMCs out kind of Yeah. Kills that right off the bats out.
Karl Freund:I mean, uh, Samsung's out can't sell already
Jim McGregor:and I think everyone knows, all of us in the industry know it's really important and you can't spend out until it's making money anyway.
Right.
Jim McGregor:So it's not worth it. It easy indicated that they're gonna double down on it. That's really important to Intel. It's really important to the industry. I, yeah, let's kill that rumor. They're not spinning it off. Intel is definitely keeping, the Foundry service and they're definitely doubling down on.
David Altavilla:I agree with Jim for once. I don't know why. I hate to admit, I
Jim McGregor:agree with you. It doesn't happen often.
David Altavilla:It's scary when it does. It's core to their success. It's,
Jim McGregor:well,
David Altavilla:they gotta be chip zilla again. They gotta, they're trying to get back to that.
Jim McGregor:And I think we should even kind of preface that by saying, listen, they're pat's. Vision was that Foundry's going to become a differentiator for Intel and it still may be as we go forward. If they execute on the foundry, strategy as they're going to doing, chips, in their products and bought in for other people, this may be critical point. And when we look two to three years out, name they'll up and say there is no reason. Instead our challenge. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jim McGregor:I was wondering what you guys thought. Samsung isn't, yeah, Samsung still has products and balance. Oh yeah.
David Altavilla:And packaging is huge. And they have serious packaging chops. Great technology in that area.
Leonard Lee:So I was not in the data center. Ai, ECI, ai. Yep.
David Altavilla:These guys were, yeah. What did you guys fill me in, guys? I was in client. So you guys can talk to data center. Let's listen to these guys. Yeah.
Karl Freund:I was really looking to hear how they're gonna salvage the transition to become an AI provider in the data. Center given the cancellation of Falcon Choice. And I, I like what I heard, but it's, at this point you gotta show me silicon, right? Not power. What did you like about
what you heard? What did
Karl Freund:They're not trying to be a close follower. They are really, double down on the transitions in AI towards ai. Towards Edge AI and towards, the reason AI and I think they see an opportunity there. None of those things existed when GPUs were first embedded, first applied ai. Maybe there's a, there's just something there. They can do a better job accelerating than their competitors.
David Altavilla:We'll see. I'll add in that. Intel also has a very strong software ecosystem for enabling, the data center, market. Where Nvidia has obviously crushed it with software platform silicon, the whole shoot and match. At least Intel has the software chops. A M D's still playing catch up there, right? They have. They have the software resources in place to, to help enable their silicon a little bit. In all the acceleration they're currently doing on Zion is proof of that. Early proof of that I would say still needs to play out in a bigger game plan. But Jim, what do you,
Jim McGregor:well, I, from what? Public. Yes. Obviously. They've got a great, they're executing on the Zion program. I'm impressed with Zion Six. I'm excited about, Clearwater. Yeah. coming out knowing that, they're gonna be using the same technology that went into Lunar Lake, advanced Steve go going into Z. Product line and
David Altavilla:many cores.
Jim McGregor:And they're going, they're continuing on with that efficiency core and that performance core. And they've got a very good efficiency core strategy. obviously, there's a lot of pressure on jack wire shores Yeah. execute, for that strategy. But I think we're also, starting to see a bigger strategy from them. Obviously, some of that's public. Some's not, but we'll have to wait and see how they execute on it. But they're definitely, they're out there with the market understanding that this is a data center play. It's not a process play. It's not a GPU play, it's not anything. You have to look at it as a single system.
Yeah.
Jim McGregor:And they're headed that same direction, so Yeah. And I would never count Intel out of anything. We've seen them come back from depth, when they were behind on these P four bit processors. Intel has a lot of the key pieces of the puzzle. And one thing that people forget, Intel still Yeah. Is one of the biggest investors in r and d in our industry. Yeah. From semiconductor process technology, interconnect technology to, materials, technology, you name it. And I think they're gonna bring that all to bear. And I would say that, they're part of the way from that. Strategy that, pat Geling laid out a couple years ago. They've had some stumbles on the AI side, but I think that we're still a couple years out before we see that bull transition, that full evolution.
Leonard Lee:Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Leonard Lee:So let me ask you this,'cause at least up on stage during the keynote, they seemed really apologetic about the six and where did that vibe come from?
Jim McGregor:No. Notice that, I think it was more apologetic about the previous generation. Yeah,
Karl Freund:I
David Altavilla:think they're, I think they're catching up now with Zion six. I think they're pretty
Karl Freund:happy with Xon six. Marcus happy, very happy with Zion. Six. There's, you know, like we were
Leonard Lee:Dion six
Karl Freund:closed that closed gap.
Leonard Lee:It's considerably, it, it
David Altavilla:stems from really odd upon. Yeah. It's just, you're sensing the core density per socket. Right? Deficit. They had a bold. They're, and they've closed that gap and memory bandwidth, right? Because the folks in the experience,
Leonard Lee:they seem pretty happy with this. So, I don't know, it just threw me off a
David Altavilla:little
Leonard Lee:bit. And it's just,
David Altavilla:and let's not forget, when you talk about data center CPUs, right? Not GPUs, CPUs, A MD is still, minority market share by a fair margin. I think AMD's like what? 30? Which is amazing that they're at 35%. 35% kudos. For that. Who? A
md for a md from
David Altavilla:pulling that, for chipping all that off. But still, Intel's got a lot of inertia, in that space.
Karl Freund:But I think, yeah, this, the last five years people been buying it because the momentum, not because it's a better product. Agreed. And I think agreed. What I'm hearing from the Intel folks here,'cause they're very. Proud of the fact that now they have a product that really will compete head to head with AM
Jim McGregor:drive. Yeah. So I gotta ask you all, uhoh, if you had to pick one phrase from this conference that you put over and over again, or as it describes it, what would it be?'cause I've got
David Altavilla:one because phrase I was a power forward.
Jim McGregor:That's a great one that from,
David Altavilla:lip boot. Lip boot. Wouldn't imagine about
Jim McGregor:you,
David Altavilla:man. I'm gonna fall flat, go to Leonard and come back to me. I have to think about this.
Leonard Lee:We have to remember that this is a partner customer conference, right? Yeah. Yeah. Humble. Humble.
Jim McGregor:I don't know. mine would be, and they used it over and over again. As realistic to me.
Karl Freund:Yeah. Yes, they did.
David Altavilla:Over and over and over. I was gonna say customer. Customer focused. Yeah. Yeah. Is was what I took away the major tagline. But yeah,
Karl Freund:it's been a good show. It's been a good show. We've, I've learned a lot. I have.
David Altavilla:And it's interesting to hear Intel's so humble. Yes. You know, so.
Leonard Lee:Yeah. I mean, we have heard it before though. We have. Yeah. And it's just, I, I think I, I'd like to see Intel get their AI story together in a forward looking way. Yeah. And also in consideration where this may go in terms of ai, we hear Pat talk a lot about how next. Big thing in AI is influence. What does that mean?'cause I think a lot of folks just say it. Yeah. They don't really articulate well, what does that dynamic actually look like? And then when it gets out toward the car edge, quote unquote our edge, how do the economics play out there? What are the technologies that the TransTech we're seeing in AI that impact how that, how everything goes from the data center and. Right. Really talking specifically about gen ai and the derivatives above it go out toward, at the edge. The edge,
David Altavilla:well, all the different because I
Jim McGregor:think the entire industry's right.
David Altavilla:Yeah. But if you talk AI at the edge, if there's one tech player in the field right now that has an advantage in that regard, it's intel. From a software standpoint, open Vno has been around forever, ever. Yeah. And it's. Very well established. It accelerates a lot of apps currently,
Leonard Lee:and you know what,
David Altavilla:you know, they have a really good leg to stand on there.
Leonard Lee:Computer vision still is one of the biggest. Oh, yeah, yeah,
David Altavilla:absolutely. Yeah. Application camera feeds everywhere. Baby
AI broadly,
David Altavilla:right? Yeah. And that,
that's, that's true. That you see people
Karl Freund:have, people tend to equate AI with generative ai, generative ai. Still Nory revenue.
Leonard Lee:Say something. It's fairly fledgling. Appropriated, yeah. AI has been appropriated by Gen AI now to be, yeah. And so that's why, I always try to remind people, the thing that we're trying to track here is what kind of impact is generative AI having from a four on out? Right.'cause there's all this other AI stuff that's been there that works. I'm netting that stuff out. It's like, look. Yeah. Spending all this stuff on infrastructure. Yep. How is that translating into value out toward, agent AI too? Yeah. End customers in the end market. Right. It's one thing to sell a bunch of GPUs and GPUs systems for model training in these massive data centers. It's another to actually be able to monetize, right? Because monetization, new
David Altavilla:experiences at the edge
Jim McGregor:embedded world, everyone is looking at this now all the way down to the smallest microcontrollers. how do we scale AI down to the edge? So it is the industry challenge. Agreed. Yeah. Fun.
David Altavilla:Stuff. Fun stuff. Never dull moment for guys like us. So,
Leonard Lee:Any final words?
David Altavilla:I think Q4 into Q1, Q4 this year into Q1 next year is gonna get very interesting. I, I also think we're looking at, that's when 18 A comes online for real. So, I'm sorry, go ahead Jim.
Jim McGregor:No, I, good point. I also think that, one key point that I would take away from zipper is that he understands the value of culture and. Sick. Right. To change the culture ation. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Karl Freund:And I think that starts with being humble and he's a very humble man. Very, I, the one thing I would add, just a final thought, is that, lip Boo has one of the best rolodexes in the technology program. Yes, he does. Especially in the semiconductor industry.
David Altavilla:That's a good way of saying it. Yeah.
Karl Freund:And that. That's gonna open doors for him.
David Altavilla:Yeah.
Karl Freund:He's gonna create opportunities for him for partnering and it could potentially create opportunities for acquisition.
David Altavilla:Yeah.
Karl Freund:So I, I Lipper's Rolodex may be their, may become their competitive advantage.
David Altavilla:If there was a guy that's gonna fill Pat's shoes and more, it's Yeah. Probably him. Yep. He's get some good, lineage behind him.
Leonard Lee:IF is not going anywhere. Right.
David Altavilla:18 A. That is the goal line that you, they want keep an eye on 18 a. Yeah. That comes out strong. Yeah. Yeah. Things are gonna turn quick
Leonard Lee:and
Jim McGregor:Right.
Leonard Lee:14 A is right behind you.
David Altavilla:Yeah. Yeah.
Leonard Lee:Cool. So, hey gentlemen, thanks for jumping on. Thanks
David Altavilla:for having us. Thanks for having us buddy. Guys,
Leonard Lee:welcome. Good
David Altavilla:to see you again.
Yeah. Nice to have you join us. Yeah, you're one of the first ones,
Leonard Lee:right? Yeah. Long, long time ago. Yeah. coming out of, Taipei for Yes, that's right. 2024. Oh boy. So, hey, thanks everyone for tuning in and we hope you enjoyed the conversation to sharing here. Of course, remember to like, subscribe and also comment, let us know what you think, what you thought of our. Discussion here and, some of the insights and, takes that we shared from Intel, fish in 2025. And, remember to, contact these gentlemen here and at their respective companies. This is Jim Gregor. Actually, you didn't even introduce Jim McGregor interior
Jim McGregor:research that Jim has, terry research.com.
Karl Freund:Carl dot. Fre Cambrian ai.com
David Altavilla:and Dave Alta Villa for Hot Tech Vision and analysis. Dave a@hottech.com.
Leonard Lee:And remember to check out Next curve@www.next-per.com for the tech and industry insights that matter. And we will see you on the next episode of Silicon Fus. And if he didn't like anything, it's his fault. Yeah, it's awesome actually. It's James problem. All right. Take care. We'll see you next time. Bye. Bye.
