Apple Vision Pro versus Samsung Galaxy XR (with Prakash Sangam)

What is immersive reality? It is the current generation of XR experiences characterized by ultra-high-definition spatial video and audio that deliver near-life-like experiences.

More than two years after Apple announced the Vision Pro, Samsung made its entry into the immersive reality (IR) game along with partners, Qualcomm and Google.

The Samsung Galaxy XR emulates much of the Vision Pro blueprint for immersive reality, but is leading about the device? Is there much more to consider? Listen and find out. 

Prakash Sangam of Tantra Analyst joins Leonard Lee in a debate on who is leading the immersive reality game from real experience with these devices and their respective ecosystems, Prakash with his test Galaxy XR, which he has been using for a few weeks, and Leonard with his personally purchased Apple Vision Pro, which he has been using for almost 2 years.   

Hit Leonard and Prakash up on LinkedIn and take part in their industry and tech insights.

Check out Prakash and his research at Tantra Analyst at www.tantraanalyst.com.

Please subscribe to our podcast which will be featured on the neXt Curve YouTube Channel. Check out the audio version on BuzzSprout or find us on your favorite Podcast platform.

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NOTE: The transcript is AI-generated and will contain errors.

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Transcript

Prakash Sangam: 0:06

Next curve.

Leonard Lee: 0:10

Welcome everyone to this next Curve Rethink podcast episode in our Comtech series where we break down the latest tech and industry events and happenings in the world of consumer and commercial tech into the insights that matter. And I'm Leonard Lee, executive analyst at ncur. And in this. Episode I am joined by my good Metaverse virtual friend and fellow analyst, Prakash Sangam, who is the Principal analyst, attra Analyst to talk about Apple Vision Pro and the Samsung Galaxy XR headset, which came out a few months ago. Prakash. Hey. How's it going?

Prakash Sangam: 0:57

Great to meet your, avatar Leonard. Yeah. Me offer the metaverse of vision. Many people thought they would be in by this time, right?

Leonard Lee: 1:10

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Prakash Sangam: 1:11

Not to be. Yeah. And you are on your Vision Pro. And I'm on my Galaxy VR headset. XR headset. So

Leonard Lee: 1:19

yeah. We're cross platform here on Zoom. And so, yes. And might I say you look quite dashing in your metaverse self.

Prakash Sangam: 1:29

At least my avatar is dashing.

Leonard Lee: 1:32

Yeah, same here.

1:33

not

Prakash Sangam: 1:33

in person.

Leonard Lee: 1:34

My, my real life, persona at the moment, needs to brush its teeth.

1:38

of

Prakash Sangam: 1:38

course. Same here so you can, man.

Leonard Lee: 1:40

Yeah. But before we get started, please remember to like, share, react, and comment on this episode. Also, subscribe here on YouTube and on buzzsprout to listen to us on your favorite podcast platform. Opinions and statement by my guests are their own and don't reflect mine or those of ncur. We're doing this to provide. An open forum for discussion and debate on all things consumer and commercial tech. And this is probably one of the most exciting areas, probably underrated areas of, consumer and dare I say, commercial tech. over the years because we saw limited success on the consumer side, there was a pivot toward, positioning XR as a enterprise thing. But I, I think, Apple started something really interesting and, and started to pursue a di direction I call immersive reality versus, you know, XR and Mr. It's a different breed of experience that's more rooted in reality versus the virtual stuff. now we have, Samsung within a consortium or a collaboration with Google. And, Qualcomm.

Prakash Sangam: 2:46

Qualcomm

Leonard Lee: 2:46

coming out with this, really cool device, which is the Samsung Galaxy xr. And, I. Received a trial unit. I haven't, I have no idea why, and I'm gonna give Samsung a hard time for that. Are you guys afraid of what I'm gonna say about your product? I would've figured I would be the one of the first people that they would send a unit to, but I'm gonna have to rely on your expert assessment and evaluation of the product. Hey, let's start this off let me know what what you think. Sure.

Prakash Sangam: 3:21

And yeah, indeed. And, and I rely on your expertise for the Vision Pro. I, I, and I used it and tested a couple of times, but I don't own one, so. Yeah. Good. Yeah. And, and, I think, uh, the whole, XR thing, I think it, it that there's a lot of value there for sure. Yeah. I think the overhyping kind of, I did a disservice to it in my view.

Leonard Lee: 3:43

Oh yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 3:44

Yeah. There's a lot of value there. A lot of use cases, a lot of benefits of it. But oring, the saying that everything will be metaverse, like we will, people talk like we are doing now. I mean, it's cool, but I, I really don't see a huge. and a value in instead of we talking with our real self talk with our avatars, right? I mean, it cool. Yeah, it looks cool and feels cool and it's, it's funny and such, but I don't know if there is, you know, people who pay thousands of dollars just to do this, right? So, yeah, and I agree with you that there is, there is tons of stuff happening Tons of stern, stuff yet to happen on xr, and it's an exciting, market and, technology and has a lot of promise and benefits and value for sure.

Leonard Lee: 4:30

Yeah, I think you're making a really good point about the hype. It was so exaggerated, and I think a lot of folks don't. Recall because now we're, deep in the AI hype cycle, generative AI hype cycle. Yes. but we have to remember how hyped metaverse was. It was incredibly hyped. I actually, almost to this level. Yeah, of what we're experienced with generative ai and I know that one of the tropes in the XR world these days is, you know, metaverse is about ai. I don't entirely agree with it. I think. It has a role, but I think mm-hmm. It has an ancillary augmenting role. The core of what I see still, and I've had a vision pro for now going on three years, so I'm probably one of the more experienced analysts out there who actually knows what it is to live with these things on a daily basis, has explored, different use cases with it. I've even tried gaming with it. I, I'm never been a proponent or that much of an advocate of the go gaming aspect for xr. just because you're trying to solve one of the more difficult problems, which is human, the human physiology and dissonance issues that are, are caused by XR gaming experiences. What are you. Playing games with the, the,

Prakash Sangam: 5:53

lets me starts with saying that I'm not a gamer, big time gamer, but I did couple of them. My son plays and my daughter plays. And just for the experience I tried. I mean, I think, you know, when you talk about immersive, right? So yeah. Yeah, I mean the experiences, I definitely think it's, a level above if you are playing with, without the glasses, with the regular screen.

Leonard Lee: 6:18

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 6:19

I think there is definitely use case and I mean, there is enough demand as well, for VR XR games for sure. but I'm not a gamer, so my, my views are based on what, whatever limited, experience I had. But I see, of course, tons of, I think in my view it has, I know I'm, I'm writing a review promote in a, in a few days. I think this is an excellent media. Consumption device, which is highly personalized. Mm-hmm. In all aspects, highly immersive. I don't think there's anything like this in the world, and I know like any XR headset that way that will give you, such a great immersive content consumption, you know, experience for period. And then there are some initial, use cases on the enterprise business side. but I think the challenge in my view is not technology. for XR as a whole, it's two things. One is. Content for sure. I mean, it is a great content consumption device, but there is that, no breadth of, content. You know, even if you go on the catalogs of videos or movies, it is so hard to find 3D content. Even discovering it is very hard.

Leonard Lee: 7:40

Good stuff. Most of it is. Really bad.

Prakash Sangam: 7:44

Yeah. I mean, I mean, whatever people, I know some tacky stuff. I mean, YouTube has a few staff people's experience and such, but, there is dear of, content where there there'll definitely be, a need and the demand for it. For example, movies and videos and such movies. I mean, I tried really hard to find 3D. Movies on many platforms earlier for some time. I know some time ago they used to list, you, you used your ability to easily find 3D movies. Right now, it's almost impossible. You have to basically know whether there, there is a, 3D version of that movie or not, and then, you know. Yeah, so definitely there is, you know, third of content is one and second when it comes to, enterprise use cases. I mean, uhhuh, they've been talked about quite a lot. I've seen, you know, demos and such at the events for few of them, which makes sense. But again, the software development, ecosystem. The enterprise ecosystem is seriously, seriously lacking to take advantage of this. So, yeah, so it's, it's a great product. Mm-hmm. Of course, you know, when Vision Proc was ahead of time, way ahead of time, XR came a little bit later. I think it's still a little bit ahead of time, but it is set, you know, setting a platform for, you know, more stuff to come. I guess it's not there yet, for sure.

Leonard Lee: 9:12

Yeah. And that, that's one of the things that I've highlighted as being one of the advantages that Apple has in this game. This is not xr, this is not your prototypical XR strategy because one of the things that Apple did very early on is make the creative tools conducive to content creation for Vision Pro. A lot of people don't understand or know this. Mm-hmm. Because there's a fixation on gaming content and applications as being where all the killer stuff is. Actually, to your point, I. And this is something I've been saying forever. This is a content consumption tool, but it creates Correct,

Prakash Sangam: 9:50

yeah.

Leonard Lee: 9:50

New experiences that you've never seen before. Like, you know, I know that you watched, cricket in 3D, VR 180 3D right? So

Prakash Sangam: 10:00

after it was not three one, I mean, it was, I basically, uh, the live was not via, uh, 180, right? Yeah. Uh, the live event, it was not. I mean, I basically watched it like a IMAX with large screen with you know, on 2D still, and then I took some of the clips and then, you know, converted him into three and watched them and it's like, ah, really awesome. Ah, okay. Right. So,

Leonard Lee: 10:26

Yeah. Well see. I mean, but even that's kind of cool. Yeah. and, and demonstrates the possibilities of what those, these, these progressive or more advanced immersive reality experiences like. So Apple recently, now I think it's the MBA actually that is now providing. immersive media Footage. Footage, yeah. Broadcast footage. I actually just watched a game last night between the Lakers and the Clippers where Yeah. I mean, you're literally there. Court side.

Prakash Sangam: 11:00

Under the

Leonard Lee: 11:00

basket.

Prakash Sangam: 11:00

You look at CD and

Leonard Lee: 11:02

incredible,

Prakash Sangam: 11:03

I mean, if you look at, I mean, it's, this is what I would do. Yeah. Right. If you watch content on 3D television, it was more like you are watching, stuff.

Leonard Lee: 11:13

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 11:13

Because yeah. It was not immersive because it's not large enough. Yeah. But this is, this is like, you know, your 3D in imax, right? It's, it's basically you are in it and then, you know, if. The original content itself is in 3D. Then you check around, you go on the stage and you look at different views and such. And another thing I would like to point out at the front end is the biggest, usage or the, the, the largest amount of time I spent

Leonard Lee: 11:44

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 11:44

On using the Via this Galaxy Excel headset is basically reliving my past. What I mean by that,

Leonard Lee: 11:51

yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 11:52

I look at all of my photos and videos, most of them are on, Google Photos, right? and there, there are tools that you could basically make immersive and make them 3D on Google Photos with Google, right? Yeah. So when you go there, I mean, it was like almost reliving, you know, the birthdays half my kids and know some events like that. I spent. Most amount of time basically going through my photo and video. Yeah. Watching them in immersive and you know, watching them in 3D. So if, and I know I was not sure, and it's like$2,000 device. But you are of my age, right? Probably you are. Same as my Yeah. You know, and there, there are tons of memories. We never had time to go back. Right. So I would, I would, I would pay$2,000

Leonard Lee: 12:44

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 12:45

To basically, you know, really all of my, old memories, right? Yeah.

Leonard Lee: 12:50

yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 12:51

Yeah. That's my. If you take one, takeaway from my experience, that's one takeaway. It's, it's worth paying for, reliving your memories.

Leonard Lee: 13:00

Right. And that was actually a while back when Meta was collaborating, or Lenovo was collaborating with Meta on this date, had they were doing a lot of stuff on that end. You know, they had, you know. 3D capture, you know, VR 180, cameras and, all kinds of devices to capture memories. What they hadn't at that time was exactly what we were talking about, where you can convert, 2D images to 3D, but the experiences are, amazing, right? Especially if you take video 3D immersive video mm-hmm. Live, like for instance, I have young children. So this is really special for me because I can wear my Vision Pro and I can record, video and footage of my, my daughter or my son playing on my lap talking to me. And then it's literally when you replay that. Media, it's mm-hmm. Like that you can touch them. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I think this is like a sensation that people don't realize having passively used the device in a 30 minute demo, right. Looking at a dinosaur. And, you know,

Prakash Sangam: 14:12

yeah. And also you could use phones to ca, you know, capture, 3D and spatial video and audio. Right? I mean, that, that's where then the, especially when, if you look at spatial audio, yeah. So, so yeah, capture it with the phone and then transfer it into 3D and watch it on

Leonard Lee: 14:32

Yeah, yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 14:33

You know, mixer.

Leonard Lee: 14:33

Which is pretty phenomenal. It transposes really well, but also, I mean, and that's one of the advantage, I mean, I think, you know, I have to tell you that Apple is way ahead of, Samsung. The ecosystem is much more. It's deeper and, it's richer than, because they've invested in it, right?

Prakash Sangam: 14:53

I don't believe that the, price point doesn't matter. I mean, yeah. If it is a 3000,$4,000 device, right, which pro is, yeah, probably more than 90% of the people don't even get to check it out before they decide whether it's worth it or not. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so I think, you know, price, price, price matters, but also. Price for the experience you are getting matters. So if you use a cheap, cheaper, XR headset no. And you don't like the experience, then you basically, you don't, you, you make, make, make your mind right. It's not worth even spending that much amount. I think the balance between performance, price and experience matters Samsung has done a great job balancing them, you know, keeping it under 2000 while still providing extremely good experience on the headset. I think that's a good plus for, Samsung, in my view.

Leonard Lee: 15:49

Yeah. And, but you know, I think the thing that is really differentiating in the experience is the live performance live. Sports experiences, because I'll tell you right now, the NBA now mm-hmm. They're, they're introducing F1. no. And so it's not just the headset, it's the whole infrastructure of content creation, course creation and experimental. Of course, yeah. Experiential capture. And this is where Apple's really leading. They have that deep, collaboration and partnership with Blackmagic design. This is something I cover in, my, the media side of my research. And so the fact that they've already achieved a degree of, broadcast capability with the, new generation of immersive media, cameras, is actually pretty remarkable. And then when you think about the networking aspect, the compute aspect and what it takes to actually generate, and then broadcast and distribute. This kind of content. these are areas that Apple has clearly invested in already through their infrastructure as well. And, these are areas where, Samsung and the rest of Google, and, Qualcomm are gonna have to invest tremendously in, and this is something that has been completely discounted in any of the stuff that I've seen out there around the talk about Vision Pro. Most of it has been predominantly focused just on the device and there's so much more happening here. But. It's good to see that there is competition that, Qualcomm in particular is taking their, SOCs and their technologies in, investments in XR and enabling a lot of what, Google and Samsung are able to do, on the software and the, and. Market device perspective, you know? Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 17:40

And I mean, like, it's, it's like, classic Apple versus Google or Android ecosystem. Yeah. It's basically a collaborative approach. Apple basically being end to end.

Leonard Lee: 17:50

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 17:51

But for Android, it is always a collaborative effort. Effort, you know? But I, I know whether that gives, edge to Apple, maybe like, any end-to-end system.

Leonard Lee: 18:04

No, it gives them an edge. I mean, we, there's always this debate of whether or not it gives Apple an edge. They're making a, a profound investment beyond a device. This is what we always see them do. When, build a new ecosystem. But it is also the thing that almost no one tunes into when they're doing it. And I think that's, you know, the reality is, we're looking at, apple under second generation. I'm on my, the first generation, which is three years old. Yeah. Which I think the Galaxy XR is kind of on par with that, the

Prakash Sangam: 18:37

Correct, not necessarily. I. I mean, I think it's still, if you look at spec wise, I don't know the experience, right? But spec wise, it is more compatible to, the second generation rather than the first. If you look at number of sensors, weight is, I think, similar. And, galaxy XR is a little bit lighter, in terms of processing capabilities, performance and such. I think for the use cases and the content mm-hmm. There are, there is out there on which uses devices. They're pretty similar. and then of course, as you mentioned, apple has a lot of the other in, on the infrastructure side to create content and such. And I, definitely believe. If, the Android ecosystem has to compete with Apple, they have to invest in creating, content for, for this device for sure. Right? No question about it. and then the question will be whether the content like the NBA that you mentioned, that Apple create, will that only be for Apple devices? Me, you know, and if I'm NBA, maybe I would look at, okay. Maybe if I come up with a, a content strategy that that addresses much wider population across platform, maybe that's, that's what they'll do in the future. maybe initially in the timeout. Yeah. It might just be specific to Apple.

Leonard Lee: 20:00

I think there's a. massive under appreciation of what Apple and its partnerships have done in this space where everyone else has been absent. I've witnessed it, I've seen it. It's been part of my research that I've been monitoring. And so, based on my understanding, and we've already published this is not a trivial effort, licensing. I don't know, maybe they'll be able to do it. the bottom line is that Apple is definitely. In the forefront on the content side shaping what immersive media is going to look like. And, you know, the thing is it's good that, Samsung is getting in this game. the thing is, is it raises the bar on content because this stuff is not the same. As what we've seen before, in terms of technically what's required from infrastructure and tooling perspective, what's needed. You know, for instance, apple has, immersive media production capabilities and Final Cut Pro also motions. Now, all these other tools, professional grade tools. That they now, I mean, provide almost for free now. Uh, and then, well,

Prakash Sangam: 21:08

you still have to buy the, you know, apple device. You pay, I mean, nothing is free, right?

Leonard Lee: 21:13

You pay well, I mean, you still have to pay for a pc, so, and then you know, the phones themselves, they support native. you know, immersive, media capture, right? iPhone has spatial video as well as photography.

Prakash Sangam: 21:26

Yeah, I mean, same, same with Google. A lot of, more modern, Android devices. Right? Of course. All of do they Samsung and yeah, of course, anything I think later than, galaxy 23 has, you basically, you, you can record 3D audio and video and a spatial audio and video on a phone and watch that on xr. A hundred percent. Yeah. Try that. It looks great. So,

Leonard Lee: 21:50

okay. I haven't tried it yet. What's the app called? Is it native to the, because they never

Prakash Sangam: 21:55

talk about it. They never talk about it. So on Galaxy, that's another pet pee of mine with X is, you know, on phones and other things, there are tons of, tons of content. If you want to check out something, find out something. With the xr, a lot of things you have to basically try it yourself to find out. Right. And you do a lot of search searching. I mean, that's where the value we're adding, I guess, to this thing. So you basically, you have to download a, A camera assistant, from Galaxy Store, that really, that basically with that basically, and you know, with that, when even in your regular camera mode on your phone, there is a button that appears, which basically makes it a 3D you know, spatial audio and video recorder. So if you use, know, special audio on a phone is limited, right? It is limited by how many speakers you have, and it is of, of course, a 2D device. You can actually, use if you have, buds Pro two or higher, I think, galaxy Buds. Hmm. You can connect them and then collect spa, even better spatial audio with them when you are, when you're using the, when you're doing and you're shooting 3D video or stuff like that.

Leonard Lee: 23:10

yeah,

Prakash Sangam: 23:11

And.

Leonard Lee: 23:12

Yeah. And in terms of

Prakash Sangam: 23:13

like differentiation, yeah. That's another, yeah. So that's another, I mean, from a consumer point of view, this was, you know, I, I'm, I'm sure I've told you many times, I'm not sure. I mean, I was on the edge of buying, vision Pro. I know I could have bought it for review and other purposes, but my always thinking was if I'm an average consumer, I mean, know who has money too. Mm-hmm. Spend on these things, of course, right?

Leonard Lee: 23:36

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 23:37

Whether would I invest, Close to 4,000 on Vision Pro,

Leonard Lee: 23:42

it's pretty much 4,000.

Prakash Sangam: 23:44

Yeah. Don't kid yourself, it's

Leonard Lee: 23:45

not cheap.

Prakash Sangam: 23:46

Yeah. So, will I get enough value, for spending that much? And I could never. Decide on buying because I did not see it. Right. So, so that's, I know of course half the price makes it much easier for you to buy. And then another value add is basically you can, you not only can reli your, you know, previous memories. Yeah. Going forward, you can make today's memories for your future when you get older, when you get a lot of gray hair like me. Much more immersive, much better, than, than they are right now. Right. So, yeah, Totally. And that's where the ecosystem comes into play, where you can use the phones and the other devices, you know, to, to record it and in a nicer way. My point is, if you look at all, most of the things that we are talking about

Leonard Lee: 24:36

mm-hmm.

Prakash Sangam: 24:37

It's about, content consumption on the device.

Leonard Lee: 24:39

pretty much it's

Prakash Sangam: 24:40

pretty, yeah. That, that's basically 90% of the usage right now, I guess right now.

Leonard Lee: 24:47

It's not just any kind of content. That's the thing that I think, people need to understand. It's a very different. Kind of content that delivers a different kind of experience. And so again, I think this is where the industry has been misguided for years, thinking that the holy grail for XR was gaming. it's, you know, the thing is, it is proven not to be the market to drive, xr. this reminds me of when, they came out with DV camcorders and they cost back in those days,$3,000 and today's dollar is probably$6,000. I actually bought one very early on. Mm-hmm. And. It changed everything. And the, camcorders went from this big to this big,

Prakash Sangam: 25:40

to this big handheld, right? They were shoulder, they were shoulder mounted to hand hair I bought as well. This is, I mean, the, the first camcorder I bought was Sony, of course was in when, 98, 99. I think so. And those are the videos and the pictures I'm reliving right now with Excel. Right,

Leonard Lee: 26:00

right. Exactly.

Prakash Sangam: 26:02

Excel headset. Yeah.

Leonard Lee: 26:03

Right. We're at that phase for that type of consumer device and I think, you know,, it's great that. Samsung is coming up with an, what you might call a more reasonably priced offering, and I think there's a long way to go with this, maybe we'll start to get appreciated again when people actually experience what. The new experience or immersive experiences, especially with the sports stuff. I mean the, the nba? Yeah. Yeah. It, oh wow. I, I mean, there's nothing like being at every game court side, you know, it's like you don't, you, and it's free, or all you have to do is pay for, at least it is not. Totally free. You have to pay for, somebody has to pay for it

Prakash Sangam: 26:48

somewhere.

Leonard Lee: 26:49

I'm just waiting for a major league baseball. I'm sure I have heard N-H-L-N-H-L is gonna come out with it, but they're just trying to figure out where to put the cameras.

Prakash Sangam: 27:00

Yeah,

Leonard Lee: 27:00

Yeah. But then the cameras are getting smaller, so the possibilities. Yeah. So,

Prakash Sangam: 27:05

so I mean, talking about cricket, right? So they actually, now, they actually, they, in, in a typical cricket ground, these are huge, you know, stadiums, right?

Leonard Lee: 27:14

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 27:14

Which house up to thousand, a hundred thousand folks. Even there, they basically have, you know, police and then the. the cab link across the stadium where the, just like, you know, indoor stadiums with the cameras hanging.

Leonard Lee: 27:30

Mm-hmm.

Prakash Sangam: 27:30

And then they, remotely manage them to get, they can actually even read, What people are, you know, when two players are talking, they can basically zoom into the lips and read, so they Yeah, people are really, really close, right? So, yeah. And oh yeah, there are stumps and, and then, you know, the, the umpires or the referees are standing still. So there, I think, I think cricket has lot more, opportunity, you know, to, to, to make it immersive with xr. So,

Leonard Lee: 28:01

yeah,

Prakash Sangam: 28:02

I hope somebody's. Thinking about it's, it's a good business opportunity if somebody's looking for one.

Leonard Lee: 28:06

I, I think, it's probably gonna have to go with markets where you're gonna get enough people who can afford a Vision Pro or a Samsung xr Headset. And then for premium sports, experiences. And I think F one's gonna definitely be one. NBA is fantastic. MLB could be really cool, but I think soccer, I've seen some, demos,

Prakash Sangam: 28:29

so yeah, soccer is also right.

Leonard Lee: 28:31

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 28:32

Football in the high intensity games. So you, you know, you, you, yeah. Especially if you are taking, a penalty kick or, you know, penalty corner or something like that. I mean, watching from different angles, I think there'll be lots of interest. Yeah. We should. Also talk about when you are ready about the enterprise, uh, you know, uh, side of this story as well, right?

Leonard Lee: 28:53

Yeah, I, I'm still seeing. You know, limited applications. I know that it, it, there was a pivot toward that, but I was never really bought too much into the enterprise because, you know, like you mentioned, you rightly mentioned content is mm-hmm. Difficult to produce. And yeah, this is mostly suitable for, what you would call, you know, more of like consumer, content consumption. the enterprise side can be a little bit trickier, if you're, outside of some very niche, use cases in terms of, you know, three CAD design. Maybe there's some. But there's nothing that has proven to be super scaled out, you know?

Prakash Sangam: 29:35

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's like a catch 22. I think it's,

Leonard Lee: 29:39

yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 29:40

of course there is a cost involved in it, and it's not enough content. If you want to bring it to enterprise, somebody has to do the full end-to-end work and then take it to enterprises and try to sell it, which is

Leonard Lee: 29:52

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 29:52

You know, high risk, probably if Metaverse had, you know, continued for a hype, continued for a little long people. Hmm. People might have in, invested in it and then would've tried to look at utilizing that investment, through enterprise. But that didn't happen. So I, I, I think enterprise, I, I see, I see a lot of, opportunity, a few things, like even with the existing setup that we have, you know, for, folks who are looking at, dashboards all the time.

Leonard Lee: 30:22

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 30:23

XR headset is like, in finite, screen. Right. You can have so many windows. Yeah. Similar to looking at it and so on. Yeah. So that is very low hanging fruit. And then training, I heard people talk about, I try to, you know, talk to few enterprises somehow. Tried a, tried it. Yeah. Again, all comes back to, yeah, we tried it. We like. Some of the things, I mean, everybody mentions about Walmart using it for training. Its, retail, you know, customer representatives and so on. Employees and so on. Yeah, there is some usage, but I think again, it goes back to is there enough content? Obviously not right? For, for somebody to start using it, you have to, you basically have to, if you want to use it, you have to do the full end-to-end work yourself. You basically have to define it, develop the content. Yeah. And give it to enterprises, which only large enterprise can do. Right. That is a, a stumbling block. And also, That's another major difference between, you know, vision Pro and, galaxy XR is, you know, the, the controllers, right? So with controllers, I mean, I saw a couple of, use cases where you teach folks on how to operate machinery or stuff like that. Yeah. With, precision controllers before they actually go on to do, the real thing. Right? And if your doctors Yeah, your initial training on some surgery and stuff like that, obviously this is not the, you know, end of it. It's, but it gives, the initial, You know, breaking phase of, in many of these things, like working on a very expensive machine.

Leonard Lee: 32:05

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 32:05

You don't want to learn through your mistakes on expensive machine. Yeah. You would rather do them here. So I, I see potential for it. But all of them requires, right now, tons of content development from concept to actual Exactly. Commercialization. And, there isn't enough, You know, investment going on. So, so if, apple and, Google, Samsung and Qualcomm wants to make it a major business, I think the technology of the headset, we are at a stage where it is, good to take it to enterprises, right? Mm-hmm. I think the effort and the investment should be more on creating that content to make use of this device. Yeah. Rather than just keep, improving the device itself, in my view.

Leonard Lee: 32:47

I mean the device is very, very good, mm-hmm. In terms of quality, you know, I know that the A VP is, but I'm sure that the Galaxy, XR headset is as well. If I ever get a chance, I can prove it, but, I think for remote operations, that's mm-hmm. There's potential there. So if you wanted to look out, scale out, opportunities, maybe, you know, AVPs will find, and, you know, the Google headsets will find, use in military applications. Who knows? I mean, it's, it seems like that. And defense tends to be an area where these actually, it's where these technologies are originated from and applications is from defense. Right. Let let, but, and that could be a, a large scale application even for industrial applications, right? Because increasingly, you know, we hear about these. Autonomous vehicles and robots and stuff, most of them are actually remotely controlled.

Prakash Sangam: 33:45

Yeah.

Leonard Lee: 33:45

And then your point about controllers, being able to have those for remote operations, I think opens up new possibilities, as you know. Mm-hmm. Especially as people start to settle back that you know, hey, look, you know, autonomous X, y, Z may not be what we really need. What we need is, remote operations in, let's say, yeah. dangerous environments like a mine or, you know, mining operations or what have you. and this is where connectivity becomes important, but, and then that really, forces you to rethink what, con connectivity infrastructure should be. But the other is just a really weird thing, man. It's, mm-hmm. Working from home, if I were to ask myself, what do I actually use this for? In businesses productivity, it is just, but while you're chasing your kid around or you try to handle other things, you can have windows up or you can be listening to things and then draw things up and, perform productivity tasks in some of the oddest, but very convenient situations. And I think there's value in that. You know what I'm saying? I mean, it tends to be these really weird, weird, strange use cases that are not familiar, familiar for anyone, because guess what? They've never actually lived with these devices before. Tried to figure out how they can get value out of them, for let's say productivity. Know what

Prakash Sangam: 35:09

I'm saying? So I mean, that there goes my point about it's if you make it so expensive that people not even try it, you know, how are they going to experience it, you know, look at it and look at applications, come up with applications and so, yeah. And in terms of productivity, I agree with you. I use a large screen and a small screen and my home office setup. I mean, this is, oh, I know. I tried, spending a day on it. I would say. I will not spend the whole day wearing it for sure. No. Yeah. But, I know if you are an extreme multitasking and you have to look at multiple, windows. A good example I thought myself is, if you're a stock trader, you have to look at 20 different, windows at the same time, try to correlate them and such. This would be a perfect device, right? Yeah. So, yeah, and, and when I'm doing like, you know, working on some slides or how to have multiple windows up, I tried maybe. You know, I, I used it more specific for specific use case and applications, but not as a, you know, I'll, I'll come in in the morning, wear this and wear this all day for my proactive work for sure.

Leonard Lee: 36:17

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 36:18

Yeah. But, but if I'm multitasking or with different windows sure. I used a couple of times. Yes. And, and another thing I, yeah, I, I, I wanted to highlight is, I mean, know, I tried a lot of, headsets, you know? Yeah. not, not as much as xr, but I always had this issue if something is pushing against my face Yeah. For some reason, maybe it's my personal, you know, I am, I'm ready to take it off. Yeah, as soon as I want to, that's reason I'll have reading glasses. I am trying to still manage with larger fonts with, you know, other things and so on. I don't wear reading glasses at all because I hate putting anything in front of my eyes, pushing my head. Yeah, right. So, but here with this I was expecting the same thing. Maybe I'll try it, maybe. I mean, I cannot keep it for long. but I was surprised. It, it doesn't feel heavy at. All to me compared. I mean, I experienced and heard a lot of people saying the, vision Pro feels in the front heavy this one because

Leonard Lee: 37:22

it's,

Prakash Sangam: 37:22

yeah, because because this kind of sits, most of the weight goes on the forehead. It is not pushing it far against your face. And weight is not on your head. Weight is on the forehead, which is on the, you know, on your skull. Yeah. And it's, and it's so, I don't feel that heavy at all.

Leonard Lee: 37:41

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 37:42

And a good simile is I, I hike a lot. So when you, when you carry a backpack, right? Hiking backpack. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's interesting that the weight of that pack, it could be like 30, 40 pounds goes on if you, if you fit it well, goes on your, your back bones and not back bones, but the bones of your, hips rather than your shoulder.

Leonard Lee: 38:05

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 38:06

Yeah, it's similar to that, analogy, right? So I found that told you something that is unique to this headset that I had not experienced with others before, which are like more pressing onto your head and I'm ready to take it off. As soon as I want, I can. Yeah,

Leonard Lee: 38:22

And, and it's, it's, it's pretty cool that, yeah, and you're right. vision Pro had that, has that problem. Yeah. the new, dual knit band though, Uhhuh, it's pretty cool and it improves the situation quite a bit, even though I see, you know, and so it allows you to take a lot of the pressure off of the front, put it more close to the top of your head or your forehead, the very top of your head or the dome. A lot of, advantages to this new, you know, head system. But, hey, cool. Well, we didn't talk a lot about ar, which is, I mean, ai, which is fine because I really, you know, I'm, I'm not bought into this XR a, you know, AI is the, the key to xr. I barely use. Ai, I could ra Yeah. Care less about it being

Prakash Sangam: 39:09

personalized. Yeah. Yeah. Right now, at least it is more ancillary. For example, like we are starting the recording and such, you know, you can do a lot of stuff, you know, with your voice commands, right? You, you don't want to use your hands and such. I think that's where I, I feel it is useful. If I'm searching something, the piping on this thing is. Excruciating. Right. I hate typing anything here. That's where I think, you know, most of the time I ask, Gemini to do stuff on me, stuff on the headset rather than me typing. Yeah. So that's where I definitely see, usage of ai, translation on live translation and others that. Samsung keeps talking about, I see value in those situations. Like if we are on a podcast, what we would speak English, but we bring in somebody from say, China, Korea, who doesn't speak that much of English. Maybe those kind of scenarios, it's useful.

Leonard Lee: 40:05

Yeah. That, I mean, It's so niche, it's so not

Prakash Sangam: 40:09

good,

Leonard Lee: 40:10

And that's the problem. When you make something that's not important, the most important thing, then you lose the message and then you get distractions and you position the pro. I mean, one thing I'll say that Apple has done a terrible job at is marketing and positioning. I've never seen them do such a horrible job with any product in my life that I've witnessed them just completely flop helping consumers understand the value. And you tuned into it. That's the thing. You tuned into it and these guys haven't figured it out or. They haven't bothered to tell that story. I think it's, it's almost like they don't dunno

Prakash Sangam: 40:47

what they're doing. I think it's not only Apple problem. I think it's a, a whole XR problem. I think the hype of, XR and the Metaverse, you know, created, they could do, there's so much of, enthusiasm and interest, then, but after they drop people, looks like even. You know, are worried about talking more about it nowadays, it seems right. this is my first, this kind of a headset that I owned. I mean, I used the earlier ones when, you know, galaxy VR came in earlier and the, the go, and such. Yeah. But to, to do anything on it. You have to, do research, try a few things to find out. Yeah, there is definitely dearth of, of course content, but even, and use cases, more information, how to use it more effectively and so on. Of course, there are YouTube videos and such. I'll give a simple example, connecting this to a pc. There are a couple of ways of doing it. one, if you have a Samsung laptop, you can use it, PC link, which, Samsung, specific ecosystem, feature. You can connect a phone as well, of course, I'm sure it's same with, vision Pro, but you can also connect it to any Windows pc. Google came up with a software. That basically how to download onto your laptop. It's called PC Connect. And then that basically gets all the, PCB display on your headset. It's so hard to find that, the link to download that software on the pc, right? So you, search everywhere. All that you get is basically, linked to, the, the go Google, Android, store to download it onto a headset. But you, you basically get the link when you open that application on the, on the phone, sorry. On your headset. It gives you a link. You go there and then get it, so,

Leonard Lee: 42:39

Hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Prakash Sangam: 42:42

And then, yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Lee: 42:43

it's good that, you're writing about this stuff to help people have a better experience, but more importantly understand the value of these new devices. But more importantly, the ecosystem for these new experiences, which, you know, I, I don't think people have tuned into yet. And, I'm excited about it still.

Prakash Sangam: 43:02

So, once you experience this, this thing, right, you don't want to look at 2D pictures, in my view. If you. That, that is one distinct thing. You, anytime I see a 2D picture, I say, oh, how would it look in a 3D and I, right?

Leonard Lee: 43:18

Yeah.

Prakash Sangam: 43:18

so once you start using it, you find your niche, use case. Yeah. You'll see that the money you paid, maybe it's worth.

Leonard Lee: 43:27

And then consider, yeah, our advertisers could be in 3D and that's a completely different experience. There's no reason why our advertisers right now are 2D the way that we see it. It can be, it is actually a 3D. image that, has been captured.

Prakash Sangam: 43:44

is in today, but the, I think the image information is in 3D. Yes.

Leonard Lee: 43:47

Yeah. and, and these are the things that, again, going back to this, the comment that I made earlier, when you focus on the wrong thing, you undermined the product.'cause you don't sell on the virtues of the product or the experience. And so with that, hey man, this has, this has been really cool. So unusual and it's great to bring the Apple Vision Pro world together with. The Samsung Galaxy XR world. this might be a first. I don't know if there's anything out there right now, but, oh.

Prakash Sangam: 44:21

Okay.

Leonard Lee: 44:22

But Prakash, thanks so much for your insight and your sharing. It's always a great debate. I, I love it when we get into a little fight here and there. Right. That's

Prakash Sangam: 44:31

that the value, man. I mean, if you all agree on thing, it's like

Leonard Lee: 44:35

kumbaya

Prakash Sangam: 44:36

and what's the value, right?

Leonard Lee: 44:36

and yeah, when you and I like to fight,

Prakash Sangam: 44:39

Yeah.

Leonard Lee: 44:40

And so everyone, thank you for tuning in. you, you wanna find out more about's, research check in. Out at Tanha Analyst, he has his own podcast called Tantra Mantra. he covers all the hot topics in the industry and has some special guests who provide some great insights. And of course, make sure to subscribe to our podcast here, next Curve, which is the Rethink Podcast. We're featured on the next Curve YouTube channel. Check out the audio version on Buzz brought. Or find us on your favorite podcast platform and also subscribe to the next curve research portal@www.next curve.com for the tech and industry insights that matter. Thank you so much once again, Prakash, and we'll see you next time in the Metaverse.

Prakash Sangam: 45:30

Alright. Yeah, very nice to see you, your metaverse avatar, and talk with my avatar. Right.

Leonard Lee: 45:38

All right, take care.

Prakash Sangam: 45:39

Alright, bye-bye.