We Need to Talk about the Traitors US Fandom ft Ashley Ray

Emily Rose invites accomplished writer, comedian, podcaster, speaker of TRUTHS and Threads connoisseur Ashley Ray to colletively talk their shit about the insanity that is the Traitors US fandom this season! Candiace stans... you've been warned! 

CHECK OUT ASHLEY'S CRAFTING HERE https://theashleyray.com/chirlamerch

LEARN MORE ABOUT CHIRLA HERE 

https://www.chirla.org/

Transcript

 Hello, hello, hello. This is Who The Fuck Knows with Emily Rose. I'm Emily Rose back today with another edition of We Need to Talk about the Fandom Today, discussing the Traitors US fandom, season four primarily, but I'm sure we'll get into all of it. And with me today, my guest, she is a writer, a standup comic, a threads literal savior, a.

An advocate, a podcast or a performer, and so much more. I'm so excited to introduce Ashley Ray. Ashley, how are you? 

Ah, I am great. I am excited to be here to talk about my favorite thing television and the intense people who watch it. 

So yes. Oh my God, I'm so excited to have you. So, uh, for those who don't know, I, well, no one would know because this is my experience.

Uh, I, I found out, I found Ashley actually through a mutual friend of ours, Rob Schulte. You guys know Vander Pomp? Robs? Yes. Um, he was on an episode of your. Podcast. And he was talking, I think, about the men of Bravo, is that 

correct? Yes. And just evil men of television and how Bravo really led the way in establishing that.

And 

yes, 

I love he. Rob started me on an entire journey. He pulled me into Vanderpump rules. Yes. Which got me into Southern Charmed. Oh yeah. Which coming into Shaws of sunset. And he changed my life essentially, is what I'm saying. 

Oh, and you're starting out with the uh, the violist, like the Oh yeah. That's like the hardcore 

hx CI jumped in with Jackson was like, let, oh yeah, let's just go like in comparison now I'm like, Shep and Greg, your substance abuse is kind of charming compared to what I just experienced.

That's why they call it Southern charm, you know what I'm saying? 

Yeah. Oh, and Mike. Mike on Shaw's so Scary, one of the scariest men to ever be on tv. 

And that will prove to be. The truth in real life as well. The 

truth. Yes. Oh yeah. 

Oh yeah. Um, also something that we have in common. You are the pod. The name of your podcast is tv.

I say with Ashley Ray. With 

Ashley Ray, yeah. 

And mine is Who the Fuck Knows with Emily, Emily Rose. 

Yeah. 

And I love that. I love that for you. And I love that for me. 

I love that for us, I am one of those people and someone's like, name this. I'm just like, what's a rhyme? 

Yes. Every time. 

Every, I don't know why.

I'm always just like, uh uh, what if we, uh, like my co-host for a lot of my shows in LA is Babs Gray, and I'm like, Babs Gray, Ashley Ray Comedy show. 

Perfect. And people love it. They remember it. 

It, yeah. They love a rhyme. They remember it. It's like, oh, what was that? Yeah. 

Well, Ashley, so uh, one thing that I'm super excited to have you on specifically today to talk about the traders fandom is that.

I'm a little bit of an imposter, right? So I'm on threads talking a whole lot of shit. Right. But I, I don't watch like any competition reality. I don't watch, I'm talking about none of the, none of the, uh, athletic types, none of the survivor types. I don't watch, I don't even watch, uh, like Top Model Drag Race.

I, well, I've watched wow, like maybe a season and a half of drag race. Never seen Top Model, never seen Project Runway, never seen none of it. I was strictly like a lifestyle. I grew up on E and then Bravo, I, bra, bra. I really didn't get into Bravo until like maybe 2017, um, like that, except for House Atlanta.

But yeah. 

Yeah. I'm very much the opposite. I didn't come to Bravo until now. Uh, it's not like I was one of those people who was like, oh, that's trashy reality. 

Yeah, 

I just. It just always seemed like too much to get into. It was a lot, was always like, it's a, it's a lot. It was always just like, best city for housewives and this and every show, and people would tell me it was good.

By the time I like heard Vanderpump was a good show. I'm like, there's like five seasons of this. Like I 

Exactly, yeah. 

It's just overwhelming. Yes. I always stuck with kind of the lifestyle stuff too, but more, um, I what I call the tragic end of the pool. Okay. Where it's more your TLC hoarders. 

Okay. 

Yeah.

Yeah. Intervention. Yeah. That in day fiance where you're like, I maybe morally shouldn't be watching this. 

Yes, yes. 

Uh, so I focus more on that and then loved the competition reality shows, which I felt were like, uh, not as manipulative and, you know, taking advantage of people. So, I mean, America's Next Top Model grew up on that.

Right. I cannot wait for the Netflix doc to come out. I know that's 

Monday, right? 

Yeah, Monday. That is gonna be, oh, that is, 

I'm excited as someone who didn't watch it, like I'm, 

yeah. 

Excited. 

Yeah. There is a show on Vice that you can watch on Hulu. It's called the, uh, dark Side of Reality tv. Yeah. Oh yeah.

It's, and they do an episode on America's Next Top Model. It's not as in depth, but you know, it's a solid series and America's Next Top Model sets the tone. Like so much of the famous stuff you hear people make fun of for reality TV comes from that. Like, I'm not here to make friends. Yeah. That was America's Next Top model.

Like, 

yes. 

It's what set the tone for kind of, you know, in a competition show it's cutthroat. You know, you don't try to really find teams door alliances unless it's tearing them down and apart and you come out on top at the end. Yeah. And, you know, yeah. Yeah. 

I, I think I was listening to an episode of your show in the past few months, and I, I'm so sorry, I forget the guest's name.

She's a blonde woman. Very funny. Um, but you guys were talking about how. There was a lot of backlash for America's Next Top Model and how mean they were, and so yeah. Shows recently have tried to kind of course correct that, but it's not as fun. Yes. 

It's not as fun. Yeah. Like, so sorry. Like, oh, you mentioned Project Runway.

I have watched since the original, I love Project Runway and Wow. People forget, they used to be very mean on that show. 

Yes. 

Like, it was just like Michael Kors being like, why don't you go back to your farm and make aprons? Like, 

oh 

shit. 

They, they were so mean. Like contestants would leave sobbing and being like, maybe this wasn't what I was supposed to do.

Uh, they would try to destroy each other. Like they would take people's fabric or like ruin someone's stuff. And it never got like the reputation of America's Next Top Model. It was never like that evil. 

Right, right, 

right. Uh, but it was still just like, they're very mean. And then they do this reboot now and they brought it back also a few years ago and it just wasn't as good because it was too supportive.

Yeah. It was like, I want Tim Gunn being like, make it work. You dumb idiot. Yeah. Not Christian Siriano being like, Hey, breathe. Like don't cry. Oh 

God. 

Yeah. No, make them cry. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Yeah. The best part of the new version is La Roach is a judge. Right? And he's mean. Oh yeah. Law Roach does not know how to be nice.

Uh, when he was a judge on Legendary, he was mean, which also made that a great competitive show. So like that's what you need. Yeah. Sadly, it's what you need is a, it's real meanness. 'cause otherwise you're just watching like nice people work together. 

I don't wanna watch that. 

I don't know. That's my office.

That's like a day job. 

That's literally who, who's interested in that. Yeah. Um, 

no, I wanna see someone like lose their mind because they know they need to like win the trash dress challenge. 

Right. 

And that's what makes it fun. So 

yes, 

I do love though that there is some reckoning where. You know, the, like on traitors for example, they aren't being fed like alcohol all day long.

Yes. 

Uh, they're, you know, we've at least established boundaries that are like, maybe we should make sure people are at least safe. 

Right. Right. 

Uh, you know, even appropriate, you're not happy. 

Right. 

Yeah. Right. 

Right. And, 

you know, we might still make you look like an evil heinous bitch, but at least we're not gonna let you like, completely embarrass yourself on TV like they used to do.

Right. So, you know, we've, we've, things have come a long way. 

We've progressed. 

Yeah. 

Um, you were telling me, and we're gonna get into the fan backlash. Uh. From this season of the traders US particularly, I do wanna know first a little bit about your history with the traders. Like have you watched the other countries and 

Yes.

Kind of the dynamic of how it's like now on US, where it's all celebrities, where it started out as a mix here in the us but the other ones are mostly just civilians, right? 

Just civilians. Yeah. Uh, they did do a celebrity UK, I think, but the other ones, and like sometimes in the civilian ones, someone will be like, oh my gosh, that's the most famous, like ice skater in Finland or something.

And you're like, I don't know that person. Yeah. 

Yeah. I, I don't, 

but mostly, yeah. Yeah. And I started, I'm a traders day one. I started with the international versions. Uh, I did UK first. Okay. I don't even, I think Peacock before they debuted their version in the us they had the other seasons up and I just kind of started watching, fell in love with it.

And was just like, oh yeah, this it's mafia. And who didn't love mafia? It's just that on tv for sure. 

Yes. 

And watching strangers try to figure each other out was great. Yeah. Uh, and when I heard the American version was gonna be a weird mix of celebs and normal people, that got me pulled in immediately.

Like, 

yeah, 

I, because that to me added an element of. Are these normies gonna be able to look past celebrity and that like sort of, oh, I know you from Survivor, you're a genius. Like, let's just listen to this person. Right? Or will they like kind of try to stand up for themselves and be like, Hey, these people are really good at gaming us.

And I think very quickly we found out, um, yeah, no, the normies just get tricked so easily. 

Yeah. Unfortunately 

it turns out you put normal people in a room with even a C list celebrity and they're just like, oh my gosh. 

Oh yeah. 

So 

yeah. 

Yeah, 

that would 

be me. And so from there I've watched, uh, even versions that like aren't on Peacock.

So, uh, traders Poland, which has had two seasons. Uh, yeah, you can watch that on a few illegal streaming sites and some people used to put it on YouTube. Oh, uh, uh, I love I know my 

way around. 

Yeah, yeah. Traders Australia. Uh, and no, 

I did see an EPIs or a Season of Traders Australia. That's the one that I saw.

I don't remember how, 

I do think Traders Australia is the best. 

Okay. Okay. Okay. 

If you wanna Yeah, I agree. See, just like vicious gameplay and dumb faithfuls. 

Yeah. 

That is the way to go. Yeah. And I do think like the celeb versus regular people version, they're different versions of the show, right? Like when you're watching just Normies who don't know each other and they all have a lot, like a lot on the line and it's, they don't have anything to kind of come in with, right?

Any sort of like preconceived notions, you know? Sometimes they'll have like siblings or something and that can be a little fun. Yeah. But usually it's just like they don't know anything about each other. The celeb version, they have so much more to play with, you know? Yeah. They know. They come in and people are like, oh, you're from Levi Island, you're just hot and dumb, right?

Oh, you're from Survivor. You must be a genius. Yeah. So they use that to their advantage and they know how to like build alliances already. They know like. A real housewife probably isn't gonna understand how this game works. How do I manipulate them? Right. So it's very different. I don't think you can compare them.

Right. 

I also think that's why the conversation of like, who's the best US trader? There's two different versions of the show in the us Okay. Yeah. So we best trader comma civilians and newbies. 

Yes. 

I have another name for Best Trader All Celeb version. 

Oh, 

it's Rob. 

Oh, I mean so far, I mean, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say yes unless, yeah, unless Eric like, 

unless there's a huge misstep.

Yeah. 

But like at this point, and he lucked out by having such bad trader partners and. I know I'm going to upset what we came here to talk a lot of the fandom by saying that. 

Yes. 

But we had horrible housewife traders this season. Yes. I am gonna be bored the rest of the season because I feel like Rob is just about to waltz to a win.

Yeah. And he's just about to be like, there's what, two round tables left, half the table, like loves him and has an alliance with him. Mean, I just think he makes it does like a top four thing and is like, guys, like I trust everybody here. Like, I don't know, I don't wanna like try to get anyone out. This game is so confusing and they're like, yeah, let's just do it with four people like last season.

And then he's like, anyway, thank you for my money. 

I really hope so. Like, I wanna, my thing is I wanna see it because Yes, I'm, I'm fascinated. Yeah. I'm also like, I think you, I think you made a post that was like, um, it's crazy to watch these people just fawn over the guy that looks like four guys from my high school.

Because 

every, 

honestly, 

everyone's like, it's hot guy privilege. They just are stigmatized by Rob's beautiful eyes. And I'm like, first of all. Johnny and Tara are around Olympic athletes all the time. Yeah. I think they can handle being around an attractive person. 

Yes. 

Like, yes. He's like, oh, Rob's so hot. I can't, but that's like being fun and cute and flirty.

Like when Monet was like, pick me up. Yes. Like they understand this is a game about deception. Yes. Okay. Like I promise Kristen is a hot, hot, hot woman. She has been around hotties. Okay, please. 

Okay. 

She's not like caught off guard because she's around a like truly you can find him in any swamp in Alabama.

Truly like sure he's a hottie. But like also I would say Love Island is kind of known for finding like regular looking hotties. Yes. Like there are people who are supposed to be like, oh, you could work at a Dairy Queen in my city. Like 

yes. 

You know, they do get more now like influencer people, but part of it is supposed to be like, we got these normal people.

Yep. So to me, Rob does have just like a. Like, I could not see him modeling like, 

well, I have a theory because, so I don't watch Love Island either. I actually actively protest watching Love 

Island. I mean, if you wanna talk crazy fandoms, they're the worst. Uh, I have only wa I've done like some UK Love Island and then I got into US Love Island around season six.

Yeah. 

And just was like, oh, this is fun. Everyone's very normal about it. And then as we know, season seven caused mass psychosis and people lost their minds. Um, is that because Oland, Andrea is a goddess who hypnotized the world? I do believe she is. Might be. Uh, but I like that the fact that people to this day argue about like, we are like almost a year removed from that season.

Right. And people still like fight and argue and stand these people. And I'm just like, they. It's over. It don't 

matter. Yeah. 

But it's one of those shows where where you watch it all the time. It airs five days a week. It's so insane. And they show you insane everything in these people's lives. So you really do feel like, I know everything you did last week.

Like, why wouldn't I just stop watching you on everything? Right. And I think the development of that has now merged with traders, which. Before now, like being a Traders fan, it has always really been a strategy show for people, right? It has always been a show you watch 'cause you wanna see how people navigate this social situation, how they, you know, create alliances.

Yeah. 

You know, you don't watch really enough of the show to get. Interpersonal drama, 

right? 

Like, we're not seeing them sleep in the same house. Right? Right. In every version, they all just leave the castle and go sleep in hotels. Right. I'm so sorry if they tricked you and made you think they sleep in the castle.

They don't. 

They don't. 

They they don't. 

They don't. 

They literally take, they go up those stairs and then there's back stairs. They walk down and they get right into a van and they go to their hotel. 

They, and they don't have their phones, right? 

No phones. 

They don't have 

phones. Uh, they don't, they're in complete seclusion in room.

Right. So when they get to the hotel, it's not like they can go hang in the pool together. They are allowed to leave their rooms. They're not allowed to talk to each other. 

They're 

not 

conspiring with Colton to tell 

everyone, the other trainer, they're 

Notre 

not. And even when they are all brought back to the castle in the morning, those groups, you see them come in in.

Yeah. 

They don't know that they're gonna, that's not like who they rode over with. Right? They get to the castle and then production tells them, okay, let me see, like the outfit options. We want you to wear this. And then production sends them to places to like get ready and then they bring them in and say, we want this person, this person, this person.

We're gonna send them in. Send them in. Or they might be like, oh, you got your outfit on, you're gonna go in there. And they get sent to the room where it's like a letter that's like, yeah, you're killed. Right. So, you know, so people seem to think that it's more of a social show, but we only, they only socialize at breakfast during challenges and at the round table.

Yes. And then if there's like a banquet type challenge or something. Right. So it isn't really a game where you're gonna have time to like fall in love with someone or Right. You know, you like, of course. I think they get real friendships because you're in such a stressful situation of just, I don't have my phone.

I, you go crazy when you're in like that kinda seclusion in a hotel room for like a reality show. Sure. So yeah, sure. They, they become friends. But I think just how people have gotten used to 24 hour surveillance of their fa like faves. Yeah. That now has reached the traitor's fandom and now we have these people who are like, I watch 'cause I wanna see who's gonna cause drama.

And I watch 'cause I wanna see who's gonna make good tv. Yeah. And it's like, oh no, for traitors good TV is is like when someone pulls something off, it's the 

game. Yeah. It's the game that they're playing. You know? I think it's so interesting that you say that because I have a different perspective on, well, I would say so coming from my own Immer immersive.

Immersement, I'm immersed in the Jesus in the Bravo fandom. Right? 

Yeah. 

I saw a lot of backlash from, uh, loyal Love Island fans. 

Oh 

yeah. For season six, when Ariana became the host and, and scanned of all hysteria, uh, bled into the Love island fandom. Yeah. And so then that, that, that started in season six, escalated by season seven.

And so to me, for this season of the traitors, that is kind of because 

Wow. 

Granted that, I think it is coming to a head. I see, 

I see what you're mapping here. Yeah. 

You see what I'm saying? I see what, saying what's, that's what I've experienced, or that's what I've kind of clocked. Even though I didn't watch Love Island.

The reason I refuse to is because I cannot enjoy this show with a bunch, and I like Ariana. Okay. I 

love her, 

her, but I can't, I can't with the like. The his stay. 

Okay. It's a show where like any, if I have a friend over who is not into it, uh, my partner, 

yeah. 

Hates Love Island. Yeah. But I don't care because I'm like, it is 4 45 and I'm putting it on, so Yeah.

I don't care. You're gonna deal. 

It's your job. So. Yeah. 

And like they just sit there like, I hate, like how can you watch it? It's so repetitive. You know, they re-say the same thing like 80 times where they're like, Hey, can I pull you for a chat? So I just wanted to pull you for a chat. So I just felt like we didn't get to have the chat and I wanted to pull you for the chat, but like I, you were already in a chat.

Yes. 

And it's just that for an hour and then they go to a bonfire. 

Yeah. 

And 

I will watch it every time. But I do understand how Ariana bringing her like Bravo VP artist to it brought that intensity. 

Yes. 

Like now that I am in the Bravo world, and again, like 90 day fiance has some pretty intense fans. Yes.

But like. The fans who take it outside of the show, like where they are on Reddit threads, like trying to see what the people are doing outside of seasons. Yeah. Those people are kind of looked at as like too weird. Yeah. And that's because like 90 Day Fiance, those people aren't famous enough where you like came where you 

should be.

Yeah, 

yeah. You know, it's, or like Love after Lockup. Love during lockup. Right. I get into all of those. Right. But I rarely am like watching the YouTube channels where they're like, so and so got arrested again. Right. I just watch it within the show. Right. But Bravo, it's like you're expected to also know what is happening on these people's Twitters, Instagrams, whatever.

You're supposed to know what is like the latest on TMZ with them. Right. And like the Reddits are part of the show, you're encouraged to like fully dive in. It like VPR, like I watched the old Vanderpump just over this last Christmas break. Yeah. The show has been off the air for a while now. Yeah. I was still on Reddit, like, but when do we think Rachel actually started seeing Yeah, I am a Game Night Truther.

Yes. I just get so pulled into it. 

Yeah. 

And I like, it's like I spent hours like just reading these Reddit thread about Vanderpump and I look up and I'm like, what happened? Like, why was I, did I just read so much about like Shaws of sunset and like the timeline of like risen mjs friendship? Yeah. And it just, it lends itself to that kind of drama and that's what Bravo does so well.

Yes. And now they are branching out into other genres of show and it's creating the most intense, insane fans in the world. 

Yes. Well, the thing about Bravo. That makes it unique from other shows because Drag Race also has a historically insane fandom. Oh. Um, and, and I'm sure in Love Island and these other competition shows.

I think Big Brother also has like a really intense fandom. 

Big Brother. They're really intense survivor. I feel like. Survivor fans are intense, but they're also at this point pretty old. 'cause it's been so long. Yeah. So they like, 

they don't, they they don't have 

time 

for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 

yeah. You know, once those people leave Survivor, they're kind of like, okay, let's focus on the next cast.

Right. 

So 

I think that, well what ma what sets Bravo apart is the, the Bravo brand loyalty that they, that fans have and, and their stars have. Yeah. Is unmatched you. When Bravo's measuring, when the, when NBC is measuring metrics for streaming, for example, they're not looking at the individual like characters so much as like the IP for the show.

And, and people are so attached to the IP and then they get invested in the characters. And then when you kind of have that. That collision of 

Yeah, 

you're, you're already attached to the system and now you're like para socially invested in the person. Yeah. You, you can't separate, like there are people that cannot, cannot, they can't, they can't separate it.

And then. Another thing that they don't like. 

See the narrative And it 

exactly, 

it feels so real to them. And it also feels so like accessible. Yes. Like there is a part of it that did feel like watching early Vanderpump. Like, wow, I could just walk into Sir and like Yeah, befriend these people and like, join the hat.

Some people did. Yeah. And some people did. Yeah. And now I, that couldn't happen. Like now everyone is so aware of like fame whores and people who seek that. 

Yeah. 

And everyone is just, you know, we, well, and 

they run a tight 

ship with reality TV and they run a tight ship now. 

They run a tight ship. 

You're not, you're not walking up to the new VPR crew and hang in with them.

No, I know because I do go to surf for their happy hour quite a bit actually. 

Yeah. 

And most of them are not ever actually there. 

Of course. 'cause they don't work there. So, but that's, that's 

Demi does. 

Demi? 

No, but 

Demi's a real 

one. I'll say 

I love her. I do. 

I feel like I just got a news alert. That is so sad, and I don't want to think It says what it, I think it says, 

is it about Nancy?

No, it's about James Vander Beek. 

Oh. 

Uh, shouldn't. I'm gonna look. I'm gonna look. No, 

look, look, look. Oh, 

no. 

Are you serious? 

Yeah. 

Oh, no. What the fuck? Oh,

he 

knew he was sick. 

Yeah. 40 fuck, eight dude. 

Cancer. Fuck. Cancer. 

Oh, poor thing, dude. Fuck cancer. Fucking TMZ dude. Oh God, dude. 

But 

well, 

a TV legend. 

A TV legend. Okay. 

An original fandom leader, I would say. 

Okay. I would also say 

I, yeah, I mean, I was obsessed with Dawson. 

Yes. I mean, I, I, I got into it later, but when I got into it, I was, I was very into it, so Oh yeah.

Moment of silence, appreciation. That's very sad. Another, oh God, they're taking the greats day by day greats. 

I just, ugh. 

Well, let's, let's talk about something that can make us Yeah. Uh, angry in a different way. Um, 

please. 

You, you said to me earlier that Candace, uh, now you don't watch Real Housewives of Potomac.

Right. 

So I have started Housewives of Potomac, 

thank God, 

as of this last season, but I have not seen any of Candace's seasons. Oh, no. I came in with Stacy. I love Stacy. Oh, I like have been annoying. Oh, oh yeah. No, she's 

great. But 

like, I've only, I've only seen the last two seasons, but people are like, you need to go back because I, and I do.

My friend, uh, ally, she reviews, uh, all of real Housewives for vultures. Yeah. So if you enjoy those recaps, they are my wonderful friend Ally who's hilarious. Yes. And she gave me a little breakdown of how viewers feel about Candace. And she was like, it's crazy because. On Potomac. Most people hated her. Yes.

She was annoying. Yes. She was irritating. Like she was all kind of biting, no bark and just Yes. Or barking. No bite. Yes. And 

famously 

they, everyone was like, she was like married to a white guy and was always saying like weird stuff about him. She is. So people didn't like her. And then she got herself written off the show basically because Yes.

Like I guess her husband wouldn't stop tweeting stuff about it or something. Yes. Basically broke kind of the bravo loyalty of like, you don't, you know, come for people. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, so what happened Now? Is it just that because she was a housewife, fans are like, we support the housewives. I think so.

I'm just, just like, I don't, I didn't, she didn't do anything on the show to me that made me go, oh, iconic. What a queen. Wow. She just said things that made me go, do you understand how this game is played? Have you watched it? Did you watch, did you watch the show before you came? 

No, she 

didn't. No, I don't think she did.

She didn't. And I don't think that Lisa Rena did either. And I think that that's part of the issue with the, with the whole Yes. And then this like, mythos that, like, there's like a, I felt very gaslit going into this season because I was like, I've watched all the other se well, I didn't finish last season.

Um, just 'cause I, I lost interest, but like, 

yeah. 

Um, and I, I thought that Tom Sandoval was the most entertaining part and that, but he was, but I can't, couldn't take place in the discourse because it was like. Still scan of all brain and I just 

scan all. Yeah. I came and everyone was always, it was I, I had not seen VPR when I watched him at the time at Right at the time.

So I just thought he was hilarious. I knew of Scan Deval and people were like, oh, this is just an attempt to clean up his reputation, blah, blah, blah. And I was just kind of like, it's not doing that, that he gives 

a fuck. Yeah, 

no. Like you just think he's an entertaining idiot now. Like 

yeah, 

it's fine.

Literally. 

So, you know, I, I think for last season I didn't notice as much of the Bravo ness and then because all of the traitors were gamers. Yeah. I think that kind of helped. 

Yes. 

And then this year, having the traders mostly be Housewives, I think that misled a lot of the Bravo fans who were like, oh, I thought I came here to like, see Housewives cause drama and like be.

Over the top or around a ta, like a round table or something? Yes. And it's like, no, like most of the game is being like, Ooh, I hope Rob doesn't say too much. Yes. So that he can just still seem like a dumb, cute idiot for another round. 

Yes. Well, let's, let's get into it. So what was Canice? What? Oh, 

but sorry, what she talking about?

What Canice was saying? Yes. No, 

no, 

no. It's okay. Please. 

It's what you're here 

for. Yeah. I, I got so distracted with this J uh, but this morning Candace went on, I believe it was Good Morning America. And they were asking her, you know, how do you feel about Lisa and Rob? And she goes, I clocked Lisa and Rob from the beginning.

I knew Rob was a snake. And it's like, well, first of all, I would hope you clocked them both from the beginning because they're traders. You were traders with them, so you knew They're all traders knew. Um, and Oh, that's funny. And it's also, also before her biggest complaint was she believed that her lease and Rob had a solid three person oath to protect each other.

It's like, well, if you clocked both of them, why would you think you had that? Literally, if you knew, oh, I clocked them immediately as traitors. Why weren't you immediately like, 

she's 

so shit, I should not do that. So exhausting. I should keep my allies. Yeah. So that, you know, I can, but no, instead she let her closest ally be killed pretty much immediately.

Yeah. She did not create any alliances with anyone. No. Uh, she was a consistent voter who it seemed like she was just gonna do the, go with the group, play it low key, get consistent, just, you know, be there until people are like, oh, you've been here. Like, we've never really looked at you. Right. But instead she was like, oh, let me throw that out the window.

Yeah. And do a throwaway vote that makes everybody pay attention to me. Yeah. And they've asked her like, do you regret the throwaway vote? And she's still like, no. It was a genius. A warning shot. A warning shot. Even though it's, it was like a shot into her own foot that then sent her home. 

Yeah. 

So. Then she still is just like, oh, you know, they just think Rob is so pretty and he has pretty privilege.

Candace, she says the, the reason she was like, she was banished and the reason Monet was sent home, she says is because of the bias towards black players that they faced forgetting that she is the reason Monet went home, that she was the one who went to Lisa and said, Monet said your name. 

Yeah. 

So yeah, you should do something about that.

And Lisa was like, kill him. And Monet and Rob were like, oh, but we really like him. And then Monet was like, but yeah, kill him. 

Yeah. 

And so, and then with Portia it was like, yes. Ron was like, Hey, Portia. Misspoke. But let's not forget, Candace threw Portia under the table. Yes. Portia was like, Candace told me that Michael said he wanted to go after housewives, and then they were all sitting there and Candace was like, I didn't say that.

Portia Portia's lying. And Candace literally wasn't bizarre. Set her up. 

Yeah. 

That was bizarre. She literally set her up to look like a liar and to be like, yeah, wasn't that weird how she like lied to Candace And then, you know, she also, Ron heard her misspeak, so it was a little like Candace, I don't like.

Yes, I do think there's bias in the castle. I think Ron faced that and he spoke about like how Dorinda and Dorinda treated differently. 

Yes. But 

Candace instead says, it was me, it was Monet. And then she goes, and Michael Rappaport faced bias because he was loud. And you know, they look at someone like that and they are suspect of him and that's why he faced bias.

And it's like, no. Candace Michael was obnoxious, horrible. And she's only saying that because he was one of the few people who was saying, I think Rob's like a hot, quiet cutie who could be a traitor. 

Yes. 

So I think now she's like, see, Michael was smart, but it's like, 

no, you just weren't Candace. That's 

okay.

Yeah. It's like you just weren't, and it's also like had you still been in the castle, you would have wanted to send Michael home because he was figuring things out and you just liked him because he knew to shut up and like kiss the Housewife's butts and to be like, 

yes. 

Oh, I love you guys. Yes. 

But 

you would've wanted him gone because he was suspicious of you.

Yes, he was. 

So she's basically doing this very like bitter like media tour where she's like, I'm gonna go after Rob at the reunion. I think that Rob and Colton were colluding and cheating, which as we've established is impossible, is also against the law. Yes. When you make these competitive shows, you agree to so many FCC rules.

Yes. 

Like they have to follow. So, because otherwise, you know. Think someone could like have their aunt go on the show and win the money and give it to a producer. Like they have so many rules they have to follow. 

Yes. 

And her just trying to play into that just is so irritating and takes away from the gameplay.

And then you have housewife fans who are like, oh, like they Peacock needs to write her a check because she's making this interesting. And this is media and marketing to get people to watch. And it's like, no, that it doesn't get anyone to watch. Like we're already watching and we know No, I'm 

watching.

Says 

Yeah. 

Isn't making sense. And no one is like watching her say that and they're gonna go, oh wow. Let me go watch then. Yeah, because you're not on it. No. And I like, I just know now that. Because she's so bitter. I feel like Rob definitely probably wins, which also her me, or gets far to me. Yes. Gets very far.

Her actions to me have spoiled the season just, which to me is the, one of the worst things you can do as a faithful or traitor is to be so bitter that you spoil the game. Yes. And that's what Dan did in his past season. Yes. He got so upset that he was so found out that he decided to throw heat on a traitor who had no sus suspicion on them and ruin their game.

Yep. And that sucked. It does. And this season, that's what Candice threatened to do. 

Yes. 

And tried to do. She just wasn't successful because she was very bad at the game. Yes. But she said, if I go home, I will ruin this for you too. And it's like that was the bad sportsmanship that Rob was talking about. Yes.

Because Rob wasn't doing that. Rob was going with the group. Someone else said, Lisa, he'd be like, nothing else I can do here to save her. Lisa. 

Yeah. 

Four other people say Candace's name. He's like. Well, yep. I did hear Colton say Candace. Yes. And it's like he was smart enough to always let other people have that idea first.

'cause that's part of the game. 

That's what you're supposed to do. That's 

part of the game, what you're supposed to do. Let other people think it's their idea. Like if you, and when he asked people, everyone's like, oh, Lisa was Colton's idea. 

Right. 

Candace was, you know, Mara and Eric and Mark, and everyone because she was so bad at the game.

Even like Dorinda voted for fucking Candace, 

like girl. When, 

okay, how is my realty? 

When are you going to like realize, and this is kind of how Candace is like, yes. She never realizes she's the problem. Even 

that's what people say. She doesn't realize she's the problem. It's like, 

you gotta watch season four of Potomac 

people.

I cannot wait. I'm just like, I'm like, girl, you ruined your own game because you got mad at Rob when you should have been like, Hey Rob, thanks for letting Colton handle Lisa. Let's keep playing the game. Like Right. They could have, she take it so could no blow back on either of them. But instead she was like, but we had an oath.

And it is like, but you said you clocked them and you, and why, if you're gonna have an oath on traitors, why would you have an oath with the two people who can get you outta the game Because they know you're a traitor. 

Right. 

Like that's been The other thing is that a lot of the Bravo viewers who I guess have not watched a show more complicated than Housewives, they don't understand that.

It's not a team sport, 

it's not a 

team sport. So it's not traitors versus faithfuls? 

No. 

It's individuals playing a social game that like on one side does help a team of faithfuls. But even that team of Faithfuls knows they can't trust everyone on their team. Right. That's why they send good, like they'll send bad faithfuls home.

Right. People they know you're not a traitor, but you are a bad faithful who won. Like Michael just get to the end like Michael. 

Right, right. 

Yeah. Like Michael is just irritating. They don't wanna split the money with him. 

Right? 

Yeah. Just like the faithfuls have to kind of figure out who are the good faithfuls and who are the traders.

The traders have to figure out who are the bad traders. If you're a bad trader, you risk my game. Yes. So they have to get bad traders out and good faithfuls out. 

Yes. 

That's more the game. 

Yes. 

And instead people are like, but the traitors should be working together. It's like, well, they really can't. Right?

If they want to work together, everyone would notice. 

Right? 

And it's like they are forced to make decisions together, but that isn't like a teamwork thing. That is more a strategy thing where they have to kind of compete with each other in the tour. It, and that's why so often it turns into traitor on traitor violence because they have to go against each other.

They have 

to play as 

faithfuls, 

as faithful. The traders 

do. 

And there are people this the, like the, the Housewives viewers are complaining and saying, Rob is more faithful to the faithfuls than the traitors. 

Right? 

Yes. That's the 

game. 

That is the game that is supposed becausecause. 

You don't wanna be found out 

because you don't wanna be found out.

You wanna make alliances with the faithfuls. Yeah. 'cause that's, those 

are 

the people I, 

I said this on, on threads as well. Like, you cannot play this game. Like Candace goes about her life, which is like. The pop most popular girl head cheerleader, pageant queen. Most liked in the house. Fan favorite. This isn't about fan favorite.

This isn't about who comes out looking the best or like morally or socially superior. Yeah. Who had 

funny soundbites. Like 

that's not the game. The game is who can think most like a, which I think you have to do like a cult leader. Yes. Who can manipulate the most people as a trader? The game for the trader, I wanna, I do wanna clarify is to, for the 

traders?

Yes. 

For the traders is to, who can make the most people believe that I am a faithful, so that I can, uh, absorb their energy, use it against them, and profit from them 

against everyone else. And not just a faithful, but like. A good faithful, a leader among Faithfuls. 

Yes. 

And this is what Shere did in season one.

Yes, 

it is. 

It was. And got them to be like, she is basically our mother. We trust her so much 

that they were so hurt. 

They were so hurt. They still cried 

about her. And guess who was, guess who? Guess who's okay? Every single day. Me, every day. I sleep just fine. Ri did that to those people. I don't give a fuck.

I'm watching the show. Don't 

care. I didn't go, oh, Sarie is a snake. And she stole money from like a single parent who was like going through an IVF journey. Like, 

yeah. 

You know? Okay. Like I'm supposed to be mad that Rob was a snake to some housewives who don't even need this money. Like if anyone on that show is money, it's probably Rob.

Like he lives in a trailer. Literally. Yes. His family is Alabama rich. But like, I don't think that's like reality TV Rich. Okay. It's 

not quite the same. It's not like 

not quite the same thing. Okay. 

Yeah. No, not Lisa Rich. 

Yeah. Like Rob's like, I'm gonna give that money to my mama. Like, 

yeah. So, 

you know, to me.

When she's like, Rob, you're not a traitor, you're a snake. It's like, well, even good one doing the show. Yeah. A traitor or a snake can win the show. Yeah. And like you said, it's about being a cult leader. I said something on threads that was like, winning traitors is not about like, you know, are you a smart person?

People kept being like, Candace worked in the White House. That does not matter. 

That's good. 

What matter? Yeah. What matters is like if you were a new girl in a Girl Scout troop, right? And you showed up by the end of the month, how many best friends would you have and how many enemies and how many girls would you have turned against people?

Yes. How good are you at that? 

Yes. 

Like it is all just the social manipulation. 

Yes. 

That's the game. Yes. And that's what's like great about it. 

Yep. 

Is. You might think like, oh, this person's gonna win and be great. Like, oh, they're a gamer and they're so good at Survivor. But then they come into this and you have a housewife who's like, that gamer is nerdy and weird to me.

I'm not into it. Let's send them home. Yeah. And it's like they have this whole like plan that they're gonna do, and it just gets thwarted because their vibe was a little off 

vibes. 

It's vibes. It's vibes. It's all like, are you a chill hang? Like 

yeah. 

And like that's how someone like Tom Sandoval makes it so far, because they're like, he's kind of funny, entertaining, and he is a chill hang.

Yeah. And then the second he started like being too aggressive and annoying, it was like, Tom, you are just constantly wrong. Shut the fuck up and go, 

yeah, go get out of here. 

And 

yeah. 

Yeah, it's, it's all just like. It's a vibes game. And I think MJ from Shaws. Mm-hmm. She's a Oh my God, yes. Semi. Yes. Which, which breaks my heart.

She did. She she deserved that win. She 

does. 

I wish MJ had won. Oh yeah. Yeah. She's a fan favorite. 

Yeah. 

And it's like, she made it as far as she did because she was so good. And if you watch Shaws of Sunset, she's incredible. Yes. At manipulating social situations. She, she's, and always ending up on the right side.

Yep. Yep. Absolute, 

absolute. Where, where it would be like, she would show up and everyone's mad at Rizza and by the end of the night, she's sitting there like, everyone likes Rza now. And we've all agreed. Gigi is the problem. 

Yes. 

It all because of mj And you're just like, every 

time. 

Yes. Every time. Yeah.

You're like, whoa. I was mad at Risley because he was the one who told that. But now I am mad at. How did she do it? And so I do believe she deserves so much more credit. And it's like, has MJ worked in the White House? No, no, no. Do I, I would not trust her on Survivor at all. I don't know that she would understand the rules for Big Brother.

That game is so complicated. I never understand what they explain in Big Brother. 

Right. 

But Traitors, she was perfect. Perfect. She's met for it. Yes. And I think that level of Bravo celebrity is perfect. Yeah. But The Housewives is their own universe. It's, 

yes. 

They're just, they don't seem to click with the game.

They don't seem to get it. 

No, 

and I, 

they're delusional, which is delusional. Good. For their show. And as a viewer, I love, and when they're not delusional, it makes it when they're too, when they're too calculated about it. 

Yeah. 

Then I don't wanna watch them. They're not delusional enough for me. It's not fun.

They're 

not delusional. Yeah. 

But when 

it's like, you remember, oh, this person is like a smart, like regular person who 

Yeah. 

Is like, is Yeah. Reading a Bravo script on her other show. 

Yeah. 

Like I don't wanna, or say, yeah, they're gonna be a housewife. And then it's kind of like, if all the housewives are just gonna do the always trust housewives and we're just gonna ignore the very concept of the game that anyone could be a traitor.

Why are you here? 

Right. Well, and, and something that Rena and Candace also both have in common, that both were there to own downfalls for the fandom and for the shows that they were on was their off show behavior online. Their online off season behavior was uh, uh, frantic. Ridiculous. Um, wow. Uh, vile and Lisa Rena.

Well, actually no. They both, they're both known for saying some incredible, terribly terrible things. 

Yeah. 

On the internet. She 

some Candace things and we're like, how is she, how is she not realized that like, acting this way online is what got her off of her show. And now she's still doing this and like trying to leave snarky comments about Rob and it's like, chill out.

I think it's, I, I don't know what it is. I don't know why, when, when, when housewives take a little break and they come back, it Bravo fans as loyal as they are, forget full as hell. And they, and they don't remember who the hell they like. I'm like, do you not remember like, what the fuck we put up with, with especially Rena who is very entertaining, not, not good at the game.

And, and this idea, the, the, the very thought. That people that I love and respect would say something like, Rena would've rode with Candace to the end. 

No, 

no, no, 

no. She literally, no, 

she wouldn't 

had fun. Insane Killing off housewives. She's insane. 

She 

was like, even though I was like, yo, Lisa, didn't you guys say that?

Like Housewives support each other, so why are you killing your allies? 

Well, because she's a liar, which makes it 

great because she's a liar and didn't get to the game. Right. I was like, Carolyn actually does seem like she would've stood by housewives and not voted for you guys, so Right. Maybe keep her around.

No, but she was like, but she's a Luna. Housewives will make people not believe a housewife is a traitor. 

Yeah. But 

that just kind of made people go. Maybe it could be a housewife. Kill up the housewives. Like Lisa maybe. Yeah, probably like Lisa. And then you had Dorinda being like, oh, for sure Lisa would do that.

She's being so weird. 

Yes. Oh my god. Well, okay, so I wanna pivot really quickly 'cause um, we'll co we'll come back to Candace in her antics. But like another, another piece of discourse that happened around episode seven that drove me nuts, and I think you said something about it too. The, the, what was it?

The, the black banquet or the death banquet or, yeah, and the 

Black Banquet and 

Lisa Yam Yam. And the, and the him yelling. Yes. This drove me crazy. And now we're in the, I was like, I cannot be in a place of semantics about a murder. On a fictional reality show. 

On a fictional game show where people were like, yam Yam broke the rules.

Because after someone is murdered, they're not allowed to speak. Which we know is not true when it's murder in plain sight. Because many times they do the murder in plain sight and the person continues to have a night where they talk to people and people know there's a murder in plain sight. And they continue to say their guesses.

Yes. 'cause that's all it is. Yes. Is a guess. And it's a guess. Yym was guessing and he just continued to guess what he had been guessing. Yes. And I guess, um, what people missed was that the second Yam Yam sat down in his chair. Yes. And Alan said, there's been a murder in plain sight. The first thing he said was, Lisa kissed me.

Lisa kissed me. 

That is the first thing he said. Lisa kissed me. 

And people on the internet were like, they were like, damn, never. Why didn't he bring it up? 

He broke rules. 

I was like, he brought it up. The first thing he said, 

it was the first thing he said, but nobody listened to him because at that point people thought Yam might be a traitor.

So people were kind of ignoring him. 

Right. 

And also. I think it was Laura or Tara with the Dorinda Turkey, Tara. Yes. That, that the Turkey was a little convincing to people. 

Yes. 

And so then of course when Yam Mem is the one killed, he's like, Lisa, the kiss. That's what I was saying. That's what I was saying.

Yes. Anyone would've done that if Tara had been killed. Of course she would've been like Dorinda in the Turkey. Durda In the Turkey. Yes. 

Yes. 

And they both would've been wrong because it was Lisa in the brooch. So yes, people being like, he broke the rules. He shouldn't have been allowed to talk. I was like, you aren't paying attention.

Like he did not say anything. That would've helped. He just happened to get the name right because Lisa was so bad at the game and obvious. And people were already suspecting her. Yeah. And Lisa was like the only one who did anything with Yam Yam. And she also did a horrible job defending herself against the kiss.

Like she should have been like, 

yes, 

no. Like, but she did such a bad job. She just really sat at the round table going, oh, uh, I don't know. I dunno. I dunno. 

Yeah. I mean, it threw her because she would, yeah, she, I think, I think she would've, I think she was expecting to maybe get some heat on her, but I think she thought she was being obvious about the broach.

I don't think that she thought Jam Jam would get her for, 

for like a 

a is. Um, and someone said something about, oh God, I can't remember who said this. Somebody I was listening to was talking about how. Someone, Kristen maybe said that they had to go through like a really intense, uh, sexual harassment. Oh, 

sexual, yes.

Sex. Kristen, 

yes. So 

like, he was like, I knew it wasn't the kiss because we did all of this sexual harassment training. 

Like, you don't touch each other, 

you don't touch each other. And I was like, hilarious. She is truly so fucking smart. 

Yeah. That's so funny. 

And I do think if anyone is onto Rob, because I think we do see him playing a great game, but we also have to remember like any show it is produced, we're only seeing certain edits and we've seen people like Kristen and Mark be like, you aren't even seeing us strategize.

Like you're not seeing our alliance. You're not seeing so much of the stuff we were doing. Yeah. So I do think if anyone is onto Rob, it is probably Kristen. 

Yeah. And 

I do think she will probably be marked for death soon. 

Yeah. Well, I mean, she said that thing throwaway in, or not throwaway. I mean, I don't know, but she said it in the last episode where she was like, um, oh, it can't be Rob.

He's so, so sweet. But I'm like, she can't really think that. 

Yeah. It's like the second you say it couldn't be this person, they're so sweet. That's the first person you start to suspect. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

It's like, 

mm. Yeah, I agree. And 

like she is not in on the Dagger Alliance and I do feel like, 

Ooh. 

Yeah.

Where that like people have been like, why would Rob do that? And it's like. A leader among Faithfuls. A smart move. Yeah. A leader among Faithfuls. It was a smart move because it got some really strong faithfuls. Natalie is a strong faithful who he has now defended twice who like will probably like give complete, loyal loyalty to Rob, right?

Because he saved her at the round table. Uh, Steven, another like strong faithful to have on your side. Colton gone, but like he had to manipulate. He don't know what he did. Right. Uh, so the dagger thing made sense. It's just if that does get out, it does make Rob look suspicious among the faithfuls who weren't included.

Yeah. 

But I think he also set it up enough where he is like. Oh, having the dagger would put a target on my back with the kid, with the traitors. So I did not want people to know because they would try to kill me. Yeah. And at first I was like, well, that could be a little obvious. But then after Candace killed Colton, I was like, oh no.

Yeah. Now you gave him that excuse. Yeah. He can literally be like, my best friend and closest ally was killed. I knew this would put a target on me. So I really had to be selective about who I told 'cause Yeah. 

Yep. 

I realized I was a target in the game, so. 

Right. Yep. Oh, absolutely. Um, 

Canice really set the game up nice for Rob, honestly.

Yes. And like, okay, so I wanna talk about this and I, I wanna know, I don't even, I'm not sure that I'm, I know even how to say what I'm, what I'm thinking. So, uh, tell me to shut the fuck up, or, or correct me or chime in what you think, like the way that Housewives Bravo reality shows the way that. Uh, bigotry and biases are shown in those shows are a reflection of how those women and men are living their lives daily.

Right? Yes. So it is showing up as a reflection of their lives in the reality competition shows. However, I, I think that the biases and all that is going to be more reflected in the casting of the shows and the system of casting the shows than it is, than the gameplay and how they're interacting with each other.

Yes. 

Because of how structured it is and how many moving parts there are that Yes, that wouldn't allow necessarily for those things to be as influential. Does that make sense? 

That makes complete sense. Okay. You know, casting can go. If we were to put three people from RuPaul's Drag Race in the show Yeah.

We're going to have more people who are accustomed to like that sort of over the top uh Yes. Behavior that like sent Peppermint Home. Yes. Which I do think is one of the most BS Spanish Yes. That has ever happened in the show. A 

hundred percent. 

And it's like through casting, they know what dynamic they are putting together.

Like 

Right. 

My college, my freshman year, they did this thing where we had these things called entries where like they would literally look at a floor of dorms and go, we want it to be like 20% black, 20% white. Mm-hmm. 5% first generation college students. And they would try to manipulate it to make it super diverse.

And if they're doing that at a college, I promise, like the casting directors at Peacock are like, we need, you know, this type of person who can bring this energy. That's how they do it. 

Yeah. 

And like once they're in there and playing the game. People understand it is a game. Yes. So you can't say they had, say, a bias against Michael Rappaport because he's obnoxious.

Right? When half the time they were going, is he really obnoxious or is he acting right? Is he unfaithful or a bad traitor? Right? Like, people are constantly questioning what everyone is doing. 

Right? 

So even if they're like, oh, you know, Ron is kind of standoffish, it's like, is he standoffish because he was really close with Donna who's a traitor and he like, was tricking all of us to get Porsche out, right?

Or is he just like a standoff guy who's just kind of here to play the game and isn't here to make friends, 

right. 

Like, and every point everyone is questioning that and their own biases. So it it like that's part of the game. 

Yes. And I, I think, I mean we, we, we've talked about a little, about a bit about how race plays in the game, but I'm also seeing a lot about like misogyny.

Yeah. Which, ugh. Yeah, they are, they love to call, uh, Rob a misogynist because, 

because they watched him on Love Island. Like, 

because they watched him on Love Island. 

Let's be for real. Like that's the only thing that I can, can imagine, 

which 

I didn't watch it. 

Look, I do tell, tell me and I did, and I think only now are people looking back at Love Island in that season and they're like, Hey.

So actually, like Rob was not even the worst guy in his season. Okay. He actually was just like very honest about not liking a girl who just was a fan favorite. Very, very popular. He was like, if you said he 

was the controversy 

with, 

with Leah, right? 

Yeah. If you said anything against Leah, people hated you and like anything, like at one point, Leah.

Like she connects, basically matches up with Janae, one of her friend's exes who Janae doesn't like. Right. And it's a little like, whoa, like that's not a cool move. Right. And some people were like, oh, that isn't kind of cool how she did that, but it was just No. Leah's perfectly as fine. Leah was gonna find love and it was like, I did like Leah, she was funny.

But yeah, the way she treated Rob was very similar to Hooda and Jeremiah. Se season seven people know what I'm talking about. Okay. Where it was like she was kind of manipulative and misrepresenting things where Rob would be like, uh, yeah, you know, I like you, but I kind of wanna take things slow and still like, you know, people are coming and chat and then she'd go back to the other girls and be like, so Rob basically wants to lock it down and make us, you know, just mutually exclusive.

And it's like, that's not what he said, girl. Like, 

yeah. 

What ma'am? Yeah. And so then the girls would be like, Rob is like playing around with her and dah, dah, dah. And it was like, not really. They just weren't a match. Like 

yeah. 

You know, they were an early connection. It didn't work out. And then it did work out for her.

Leah, Miguel, one of my favorite couples, he came in and I was like, please let him get with Leah. They're fucking gorgeous together. So to me it's 

like, and she's like the most famous person ever coming outta the show. Right. Or up there? Uh, 

she's up there. I would say she's up there. 

Okay. 

PPG as a whole is like everyone's favorite.

Okay. I still think like Serena and Cordell as a couple, like ev like I would watch a reality show of just Serena and Cordell, like they are in my heart. 

Okay. 

I've heard about them, 

but 

then I would say Liam, Miguel, right under that. Like I Okay. Love Liam Miguel. They are what saved, uh, beyond the Villa, which is a very, very boring show.

Okay. 

But they made it interesting. 

Okay. 

But like Rob, because he was like hurting the girl. Everyone loved, he got this like, bad edit, even though everyone in the house was like, no, he's cool. We all were friends with him. Like they're still friends with him. Yeah. Like even Leah is like, we, you know, put all that aside.

We're friends with him. I wish him nothing but the best. We all hang out. Like it's chill. 

Yeah. 

It worked out how it was supposed to work out. So it's not like anyone was like, yeah, he was an asshole who was super manipulative. And afterwards we saw that same behavior in him, which is true of say someone like Kenny who was dating Janae and was a horrible person in the castle.

Right. Or in the, on the villa. 

Yeah. 

And when he left and that came to light, right. So it was always kind of like. You guys really hate Rob, but he's actually not this evil guy. You're painting him out to be. 

Right. 

And then they brought that energy to traitors and they're like, oh look, he's a misogynist.

He's getting rid of two women. It's like, and it's like he did not want to, like, you could tell you was like fucking excited to be working with Candace and Lisa when he showed up in that turn and saw it was them. 

Yeah. 

He was like, oh, here we go girls. And then when he saw that they clearly did not do any research, like watching past seasons or understanding how the game works, he was like, I am so sorry that I have got to move with the group and sending you home.

But also one of my, one of my favorite things that has happened in the discourse surrounding misogyny is the theory pre episode. Uh, seven or whatever that was like. Okay. Or maybe it was after episode seven. I, I, I can't remember, but the, the fandom was screaming, Rob's a misogynist and he's going to recruit Colton.

Yes. And then he's gonna take Colton all the way to the bottom all the way, and they're gonna win it together. And it's like, okay. And then it's like, 

well first of all, it doesn't really work that way. If a trader recruits a late show trader, that is someone that they plan to throw under the bus. 

Yes. 

And like that is someone that when they get to the final bonfire, they go.

Guys, I don't know. I still just think maybe there's a traitor. Like Colton, you were suspicious in the beginning and then you throw them in and then you know, Colton's a traitor and then you get to be the traitor that wins. We've seen it happen. Yes. That's what re did with Ari. Yes. 

Literally 

exactly what sir did it.

A plus trader move. And that is what he would have done with Colton. 

Yes. 

Which is another reason why people were like, they have an alliance. And I was like, he is using that man. Yes. He will either make him a traitor to sacrifice him, or he will continue to use him as a faithful until he gets banished or killed.

Yes. 

So which is what happened. 

Which is what happened. So then when that happened, then it turned into, um, you know, now, now the continuing discourse apparently is that now 

Rob is a misogynist because he has recruited a male traitor. 

Yes. Yes. 

And not a woman. 

And not a woman, even though it is, in my opinion, uh, exponentially more useful to have say like, like Kristen should, I think for now at least, she should be a faithful because.

Well, for as a viewer, I just kind of, I like, I like seeing her play and 

I like her. 

Um, 

and 

Mara and Tara, like I said this on threads, like if I'm a traitor, Tara is gonna be the first person that I have like wrapped around my fucking finger. Like, 

bless 

her. Like 

Johnny and Tara, they're just like, they, they try to create alliances and then they'll be like, so our alliance said we're gonna do this, eh, I don't feel like it anymore.

Yeah, just do whatever they want. So, which is fine. So there are people you keep in the house because they like don't cause issues. Right. So yeah, it's, yeah, it's 

not about that. 

It's not about, and then it's also like you have to look at it numbers wise. So the faithful, no. They have gotten three traders out.

Yes. 

They were all women. What are the odds that it was an all ladies tour? Very low. So yes, they're looking around like it has to be a guy. There has to be one guy who is a traitor. 

Yes. 

So, sure. If Rob were to recruit a woman, he would basically be handing that woman the win. Yes. Because no one is gonna be looking at any of the women who are left as traitors anymore.

Like, like any of the women on the show are just gonna be able to skate through unless they get another trader out and then there's still time to recruit, then maybe people would be like, they recruited a woman. 

Yes. 

But at this point, like all the women are safe basically. Yep. And everyone is looking at the guys.

That's why at the end of episode eight, it was Steven, maybe Johnny. So Rob is gonna use that to his benefit. Mm-hmm. And recruit a man. 

Yep. 

So that way they get a man and they don't look at any other men. 

Yep. Yep. God. 

And can you imagine? A man as cover for himself. 

Yes. 

That's why he has to recruit a man.

'cause he knows they're looking for a man and he has to give them a man. And if he, he got, that's what he's gonna do to win. 

If he got a woman and then like, you know, he ended up voting, banishing a woman and he's, now, he's gotten out like that would also bring suspicion on him if he Yes. You know what I'm saying?

They would be like, oh, Mara got recruited and was a traitor. Like if another woman was recruited and was the traitor, they'd be like, that had to be a late recruit. Yes. Like that was not an original traitor. Like there's no, there has to still be a man. 

Yes. 

Like, 

yes, he's playing a good game 

for fuck sake.

He's playing a good game. I know people hate it, but he's playing a good game. And as again, a love island girl who. Again, Rob was not even one of my faves during his season. I was a Serena Cordell girl. Rob was just someone who was there, right? I did not really care about what he was doing, except like when Leah would make fun of him.

It was great. But you could tell he was not meant for like that type of show, 

right? 

Like. There would be parts where he would get emotional and like you could tell was overwhelmed. 

Yeah. 

And he would just get in the pool so that no one could tell he was crying and sad and like stand under a little waterfall.

And they don't use the pool in love island. Like you could not, like he's the only person in the show's history to ever get in the pool. Bless him. And you could just tell like, he was not meant for, you know, this 24 7 reality, like romance. Is it real love? Is it fake? Like Yeah. But he did excel at the challenges.

He loved that shit. Like, he loved when it was like time to play a game. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. That's when he, he would just like be outside of the villa being like, can I go hunt snakes? 

Yeah. 

But guys, I found a bug and it was like, get him on traitors. Get him on Survivor. Right. Don't make this man have to be pretty and make breakfast for women.

Like, just have him. On Big Brother trying to figure out like a riddle so he can get out of a box. Yes. Like that is where he's at his best. 

Right, right. 

So, you know, when I saw he was gonna be on Traders, I was like, absolutely. That is what he is going to be good at. And he has not let me down. Like, 

I, I am like, well, first of all, I just wanna say something because I've watched like compilations, I've watched like YouTubers like sum up the Love Island season, so, so that I'm vaguely familiar.

Yeah. And I, I wanted one more thing about Robin, how he really was brilliant on Love Island. 

Yeah. 

If you don't watch, you may Know Love Island is a show where you stick around based on how long you are in a couple today. Right. Like perfect match to be in a couple. Yeah. Rob made it to the like final four without being in a couple.

Yeah. 

That's nuts. It was just like he had good vibes and just kept getting to stick around. Yeah. He like did not have a legit relationship, was basically just like, yeah, I'm chilling. And they were like, yeah. You know what, Rob, you just, you be single and cool, man. Like that is how good he was at it. That he would just like win challenges and stuff.

And then somehow was like, yeah, I think it's time for me to go home because it's like three couples and me. So, yeah. Yeah. 

That's amazing. 

That's just how good he is at like strategy games and stuff that he stayed in a couple without any real couple. Yeah. No one was voting for him and his girl. He just made it that far.

Oh yeah. So the man is good at this stuff and Traitors has shown that, and people don't wanna give him credit for the amazing game he's playing, but he is. He's 

playing it. 

Yeah. And I do believe he did his homework. 

Yeah. 

There's an episode like, well 

he was on, wasn't he friends with one of the guys that was on Traitors?

Yes. So first of all, his bestie on Love Island and Aaron won Traitor's uk. 

Okay. 

Tight. As a faithful he won, but as a faithful still having a bestie who won as a faithful is like. The best game book you could have really. Right. Like this is how the Faithfuls think. And then on top of that, Rob is someone who like, there's an episode where Eric is like, I think that I heard Tiffany's laugh and we know that he's wrong.

Yeah. 

Bless him. Rob also knows he's wrong, but then goes, you know, I listen to some, some of Eric's music before I came. The man knows pitch, which brilliant God brilliant To like get Eric to like be on your side and also to be like, oh, you know, I did do my like research on people. But the thing is he's the kind of guy who would, yeah.

Like he would say things on Love Island sometimes where you'd be like, how does he know about that? Like unknown female musician from Canada. Like Right. I do believe probably went and watched Candace's seasons of Housewives. Like he would have done that before going in. Yeah. I am sure he like watched Ron Standup and was like, oh, Ron's kind of a quiet guy who struggles in a crowd.

He jokes about this on stage. I just like he is that kind of dude. Yeah. Like he's gonna do his research and know how to catch those snakes. 

Yeah. 

And he is, 

and, and he, and he's brilliant. And, and I, I fall victim to the, I wanna hate him because he's the guy that like bullied me in middle school. Like, but it's, it's like, what?

I can't, I can't take this so fucking personal, like the, the fans can't take it so personal. Yeah. Listen, I'm not, I'm also, 

he reminds me of the like cool guy who hangs out with the cool guys. 

Yeah. 

But is like, kinda like, 

Hey man, that's not cool. 

Hey guys, leave her alone. 

Leave her alone. She 

just likes to read books.

Like, he's just like, yo, that's not cool, guys. Like, come on, just 

if she hang 

out in the library doesn't mean we should throw rocks at her. 

Yeah. I mean, if I allow myself to believe that, because I am like, that's. I, I've never, I, I don't wanna say never, but I, he's up there with men that I am, like I, and if, if I was in the same room with him, he, he, he'd be talking to a goddamn wall, he wouldn't know I was fucking there.

But I am, and I have to keep that in mind because I don't want fall victim to it 

feels like. But like, then you talk, talk to the people who leave traitors. And this is the other thing, like the fandom or housewife fans are like, everyone just thinks he's cute and they're all like hypnotized. And then they interview people who leave the castle.

And every person is like. Oh, Rob Rouch was the sweetest guy that I've ever met in my life. Every morning he would sit with me for an hour and listen to me talk about my daughter. Like Ron. He offered to pick up my mom from the airport. Ron is like Rob. Rob was the only person who would sit with me every day and play chess and talk to me.

Yeah. 

Like every gam Yam came out and was like, you know, I felt isolated. 'cause a lot of the time people thought I was a traitor, but Rob was one of the sweetest guys who like, no matter what, would always just kind of like talk to me and be like, Hey, you know, I'm gonna hear you out. Yeah. Like he just really was a sweetheart and every challenge, he would like lift people up.

If something was heavy, he would take it, you know? Yeah. He saw him like, be nice to Donna and be like, oh, you take this Lisa. Like he knows how to be nice to people. Like Yeah. It isn't just that he's batting his eyelashes. It is that he knows how to make friends and be nice and Yeah. 

Charismatic.

Charismatic. And that's okay. She's been in so many situations where he's had to like make a nerd like him to get them to do their homework and he knows how to do that. 

And this is the perfect game for that skillset. Yes. And I can't be mad at him for that. I 

can't mad. That is the exact skill you need to have is you're the charming guy who's gonna make me go, Rob, I'll do your Latin homework.

It's totally, 

totally. 

And he would get me to do that and I would be doing his homework and I would just be like, and I'd be like, don't worry, I got, if you wrong, 'cause I know the teacher wouldn't think you'd get an A. 

Oh my God. That's per like literally. That's exactly literally me. Yeah. 

That's, yeah. 

And And 

that's 

him.

That 

was me and I'm, 

yeah. 

And that's why I can see the quality in him and I know that's what he's doing and yeah. Sadly. Yeah. That castle full of Faithfuls is gonna be embarrassed at the end when their teacher is going, Ashley, we know you did Jason's homework because he has never gotten a good grade in Latin before.

And you're just like, you take the L and and you know what? Yeah. You become better people for it, and 

that's, we become better people. You learn, you grow, but that 

you do. 

I do think he, I mean, I said from the beginning, he's gonna have the girls and the gaze wrapped around his little finger. 

And does, and does and 

does God.

And he was also, and also just part of like, his amazing strategy 

Yeah. 

Was to get the gamers out early. Yes. There are absolutely people in this game who would've seen right through Rob and Rob knew to get them out early, that've 

had to get 

rid of the gamers. 

That's actually a good point, because I feel like we've, we've spent a lot of time, we're gonna wrap up here soon, but we have spent a lot of time kind of, um, talking shit about the Housewives, the bra of Love Island fandom.

But the gamer fandom also is a little, first of all, uh, I think it's just kind of like I'm used to that type of person thinking that the halves wives are VAD and, and 

Yes. 

Uh, have no place. Oh yeah. In reality television they, 

yes. They 

always, I'm already there. Be very 

dismissive. 

Yeah, very dismissive. So like, I expect that I do, I see a lot of discourse also of like, well, now that the gamers are out pretty much, or like almost out.

Yeah. Like, what's the point of the show? And it's like. Hey, can we just have some fucking fun here? 

Yeah. I 

don't know 

this, that's the part where it's like, I'm liking it. Let's have fun. It's like the gamers come in all intense, like, oh, I got this strategy and da da dah, and then I'll work with so and so from Big Brother who's a genius, and it's like genius.

Doesn't matter. You're gonna give a housewife the wrong vibe and they're gonna send you home because you said something weird at breakfast. Yes. Like that's what it's, 

it's like and and, sorry, go ahead. 

So like Rob, like slowly getting the gamers out, which was a clear strategy. Like that's why when people are like, he was targeting Lisa.

It's like, no, he wasn't. He came in and he very clearly was like. When he had to choose in the first, uh, murder in plain sight, he knew to take out Rob the strongest gamer. Yeah. And that's what he did. Like his first murder, Ian, a gamer, like he knew the people who are smart enough to see through Mya, just like charisma and charm.

Let's get them outta here. 

Let's get him out. And, and, 

and that would've made it easy for Lisa or Candace to win. Yes. Like that helped the whole team. 

Yes. But they were too, they were taking it too personally. Another word that's been thrown around in a misogyny is the, yeah. Core of the game is that emotional.

Everyone's saying Candace is emotional, but why wasn't it a emotional when Rob said he couldn't vote for Ron? And it's like, well that wasn't emotional because it was him acting. 

Yeah. He wasn't being for real 

and lying. 

He wasn't. Taking a personal, he wasn't saying ridiculous shit. Yeah. That 

those were real feelings.

Yeah. 

Like, like, 

I'm gonna give you a, a warning shot was saying was to go, Rob must be a faithful because he isn't just gonna vote for Ron when most of the faithfuls No. Ron is the faithful. 

Yes. 

So that was acting, it wasn't strategy. Emotion was, 

no, it's 

fake. But when Candace suddenly voted for Rob out of thin air, that was emotional.

That was emotional 

because it made no sense. 

Didn't, and then she didn't think she 

it through, 

she could have saved it. Okay. If she hadn't immediately left the, the table and gone, I don't know. I just, I couldn't think of anyone else. And he just, like, if she had like, in that moment, if she had used that opportunity to go like, yeah, I mean it was a, it was a throwaway, but I didn't, you guys think it was kind of weird how.

How passionate he got about Lisa. Yeah. It's not that sh she had the opportunity 

and like 

she tried to weaponize his emotion. Yeah. The same way. Yeah. She kind 

of tried to do that, but it was like too late after the Candace or after the Colton kill. Yep. She couldn't have played that card anymore. Yep. Like after the Colton kill, if he's emotional, it's like, oh, was he weird at breakfast?

You killed his closest friend. 

Yeah. 

So he probably feels like he's has a target on he's next. He's next. Of course he's feeling a little off. He's like, oh wow. The game finally feels real. My friend just got killed. 

Okay. 

Fork. Yeah. Everyone was shocked that Colton was killed. Like we're all shocked this morning.

Yes. 

So like she could've set it up to be like, but wasn't it kind of weird? Like don't you think something was kind of up with that? And if he had kept Colton and then I think she could have been like, Rob and Colton are working together. Let's go for Rob first and then take Colton out. Yeah. I think she could have played it that way.

Yeah. 

But she just was like, Colton and Rob, they're helping each other. Take Colton out. Get rid of Rob. And it was like. No, like a, a faithful and a trait. They can't really help each other. Like, 

no. And her, her ego try to break them 

up. 

Her ego just completely clouded her, her gameplay and her 

gameplay. 

And that is not, and, and what's killing me online is that that's not unknown about Candace.

That's not like something that is just now coming out because of the misogyny of the game or because of any of the other structures or, or incidents in the game. It's like, no, she's just like delusional about herself sometimes. And that bit her in the ass and she's still out there 

being 

very obnoxious about it.

And now we're gonna have to watch her reunion where she's like, Colton and Rob cheated. And everyone's like, oh my god, Colton and Rob 

didn't, and Colton was Rob's beard, which is like, 

oh, which also, like, we're not like people, like Michael was saying some homophobic stuff. And when she said that, I was like.

Girl, first of all, this doesn't even make sense because if Colton was Rob's beard, why would he kill Colton? 

Right. And she knows and don't let people that have have watched the show gaslight you into thinking that she doesn't talk like that, and that she's never made homophobic comments because she 

has, she showed some, like old tweeds and stuff where they were like, oh no.

She knew exactly what she was doing and saying when like she was trying to throw some like homophobic shade. There she was. And I was like, okay. Because I, at first I was like, oh, maybe she misspoke because she was clearly so frazzled. Like she did a bad job defending herself. Maybe she just was like, ah.

And then people were like, oh no, that is literally how she is. She, because 

she, she can. Absolutely be strategic and she absolutely can be manipulative and cunning. 

Yeah. She just, and she had to look like she had like receipts in front of her, like, and what about when Rob did, but then she was just like, and when Rob dropped a fork and everyone was like, 

it's like, okay.

Yeah, girl. He was probably like a little frazzled when he realized his friend died this morning. Yeah, 

yeah. Yeah. Girl. 

And she's like, and he was his beard. And everyone's like, well, how does that, and then Mara's just like, but what's about to throw him at, 

throw my vote? 

And she's just like, I don't know.

Mara shut up about the fucking throwaway vote. And she said, but to throw him, and I was like, Mara's not letting this go. Mara sent Candace home, not Rob. 

Mm-hmm. Yep. And, and, and that's, people are just. They, they're, they don't wanna see it. And we gotta, we gotta remember when, when I'm saying we're not wa watching Housewives, I'm not saying that to be dismissive like the hardcore survivor fans.

Like I'm saying it because 

I love 

watching Housewives. I love that. That's not what we're watching. 

That's not 

what 

we're watching. 

You know, like, and, and I don't know why, I don't know if it's because I, I, I'm, I'm trying to figure out exactly what it is that is like getting people Yeah. To blend it when they don't seem to do this so much on like, if a Bravo star goes on Dancing with the Stars, it's not quite this intense.

If they, um, go on any other to host some, I mean, except for Ariana's exception, but 

Ariana did dancing with the Stars and people weren't like losing it. 

No. Not the way that they did on Love Island or anything else. Yeah. 

Yeah. I guess because it doesn't. Feel like it has that you're seeing them all the time feeling maybe for people, like it's just about the dancing maybe, 

or maybe because it's so well established and, and yeah.

People already have a relationship with that show outside of Housewives. Like, I don't know. 

Yeah. But I mean, there are people who genuinely think they all sleep in the castle and they're like, they need to film this, like, you know, love island like Big Brother, where they, well, we see it every day, 24 7. And I'm like, oh, you would just see them get in a van for th 30 minutes.

You'd see a bunch of drive to a hotel by the airport, and then you'd see them sleep alone in their rooms, and then you'd see them pack a suitcase and go in a car to the like, 

yeah. 

Which is people 

also like 

getting that. 

That's also, can you, it sounds to me like a very stressful filming schedule and like a lot, like a lot day to day.

And, and that also contributes, I think to everyone's like emotional state. There's, there's factors going into this and, and why it's easy to manipulate someone and why while maybe the strategy of Candace firing a warning shot would eventually work for Rob, there would be so many things that would have had to fall in place a specific way for that Yes.

To have happened. 

Yes. 

In a timely manner and. They're not, that's not how these are thinking. They don't think that. 

They're just like, 

they're not doing that. 

They're like, Candace voted Rob. Everyone should see that as a signal that Rob is a traitor. And it's like, well no, because to do that you have to lay the groundwork that someone could be a traitor.

Yes. And Candace didn't do that? 

No, 

she didn't plant seeds that were like, Hey, is it Rob? Kind of suspicious she didn't talk to people before that vote. She wasn't 

building rapport. 

Yeah, she didn't build rapport. She didn't build Ally alliances. She wasn't before that vote going. Is anyone else? Like, is Rob even a name I can whisper?

Yeah. She didn't have any idea who Rob's actual allies were except for Colton, who truly, honestly is like. Was was isn't even one of his best allies? Like 

No. 

Like Natalie is the person, Natalie, that he has thoroughly like 

Natalie and Mara. Yeah, 

yeah. Natalie and Mara. Like they are going to rob with ride with him to the end.

Yes. 

And so she didn't do any of that. She didn't do anything in her evidence to make him look suspicious. So all it looks like was a traitor trying to find anyone else to point at because they were mad that they sent one of their trader friends home. Yeah. And that's all it came. That's why she got as many votes as Donna did.

Yeah. Not, Donna got 99% of the vote. Candace got 99% of the vote. 

Yep. 

You're not a good traitor. If you get 99% of the vote. 

You're not. Sorry. 

You're not. 

Now there were rumors though. I'm wondering what you think about this and then, and then we, we will wrap it up. There were rumors that like. There. There was like Donna had actually like kind of fucked up and leaked.

Do you think that's real? 

I actually 100% do believe 

hell yeah, 

that Donna had a secret traitor deal where it was like, you're not gonna be in the game long. Like, 

oh shit. 

I just like when you look at the challenges, there is no way because she wasn't even like producers were not about to have that lady like getting bugs thrown on her.

They were not about to have her like running up a mountain with a backpack full of gold 

rocks 

blocks. Like yeah, that was not gonna happen. So I do think that there was like a, she'll be in for three episodes and it also, I think the biggest thing that makes me believe that conspiracy is that it was the only way to safely get her out of the show without having the Taylor Swift fandom ruin everything, 

which is arguably.

Yeah, it's like if she had been killed, the traitors would not know peace. If she had been, if she had been a faithful who was banished, the faithfuls would not know peace. No. If she had been a traitor who was doing well and then some faithfuls figured her out. The Taylor Swift Phantom would hate those people too.

True. So when people were like, I am actually afraid of upsetting Taylor Swift fans like that to me was a legit concern. So I do believe that like someone in production was like, did a little like, don't you think it's weird that Donna never says she's not a traitor? She only ever says like she'll, she always would like talk around it because, and she said in her thing, she was like, I didn't wanna lie and say, I'm not a traitor.

So she would always say like. I wanna be the best faithful I can do something. 

Yes. Yeah, 

yeah, yeah. She would like talk around it and I 

think I aspire. 

Yeah. And I do think like a producer maybe like dropped that in somebody's ear and was like, maybe she leaking Donna's name. Yeah. And it's like if everybody votes for her, the Taylor Swift fans can't get mad at anybody.

She goes and she got to play a good game for three episodes. 

Totally. I, I completely agree. 

I do believe that. I do not believe Rob and Colton had a master grand plan to win together, and then Rob dropped the plan. The second Candace said, I wanna kill him. When he could have just gone, no, don't kill Colton.

He said your name. It'll make you look suspicious. Yeah. If he wanted to save Colton, he could have. Yeah. And he did not. 

No, no. Also, just two, two more things really quick that bothered me. We don't even have to get into it. Candace, why did you throw all of your fucking rocks at the VAEs? Like even if you wanted to say like, you couldn't carry them up the hill.

Like if you were, if you were strategizing really well, you would've saved some rocks to put in someone else's box. That really bothered me. Put someone else's box. Because people keep saying like, 

no, that's why I was like, she doesn't think strategy. 

She doesn't, she's not strategizing. She's not strategizing.

She was never considered the dagger vote. She was never thinking who has it. She never was like, in the tour like Rob did you hear who had the dagger vote? Like what happened up there? She never was trying to get info. 

No. She was. She was. She was there for vibes. 

She was 

there for vibes, which is fine. Yeah.

And then, and then the last thing that I have to talk about, is it a production conspiracy or is it just really stupid? The conga line? Like I know that she says and everyone says, oh, that was a thing that we talked about. Yes. Well, it's a really corny thing. It was a really corny thing. 

Yeah. Rob, Rob C said that he wasn't suspicious of it because they had been talking about a Conga line.

Why, 

uh, Ron said he thought it was suspicious and dumb. Yeah. And I think like if you watch, you see there are like three people who very much are like, I'm not getting in a fucking Congoli. And they're just like, I think it was like Kristen, Ron, obviously Rob, because he was actually doing what he had to do.

Right, right, 

right. But there were people who you can see are kind of like, I'm not getting in a congoli. No. 

Yeah. 

And. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think that was as smooth as everyone thinks it was. No, I think that like that along with the throwaway vote was just like people being like, wait, actually Candace has done a lot of weird things.

Yeah. And, and that's okay. That's the game, Candace. Yeah. That's the game. That's the 

game. 

That's okay. Well, let me get uh, two things from you. So what is your prediction? How do you think, are you excited to see how Eric reacts? Do you I, I'm, I think we should assume he's going to take, he's gonna be a trader, right?

I don't know that it's that clear. I mean, I think if I'm Eric, I am shocked that it's Rob in that moment. I immediately know Rob is playing a very good game. No one is saying his name. Everyone is talking about Johnny and Steven and they're looking at men. And at this point, I think Eric knows, he probably looks more suspicious than Rob, that people can look at Eric and be like.

You're a reason that Portia went home. You're a reason Tiffany went home. That is a little more odd because Rob has done a good job of like being in the background of people going home. Yeah. Whereas like Tiffany people were like, Eric convinced me. Yeah. Like him saying he knew that laugh is what convinced me.

Yeah. So I think Eric might know, I even look a little more suspicious than Rob. He is playing a very good fucking game. And if I say yes, I am the traitor who gets sacrificed. Yeah. Like people will suspect me before him and I'm just giving him cover. So why stay in the game just to give Rob cover? I would rather just die a faithful.

Wow. And that's what uh, pilot Pete did, captain Pete or whatever. Oh yeah. He was like, I'd rather go out of faithful 'cause why give cover to the other traders? Yeah. 'cause that's all that's gonna happen is Yeah. If you're a faithful who has taken stands that early and you get recruited, you're on people's radars.

Yeah. So. I could see him being like, I'm not gonna help you out, man. 'cause damn I would be good cover for you. 

God. I mean, 

so then what? But I could, I mean, that's the thing. We haven't like seen Eric Alliances really. And I do feel like he's very close with Kristen and Mark and like Johnny and stuff, and Steven.

So, and they're very comfortable, clearly like coming up with plans around him. So I do think if he feels like I have a very strong alliance in those people, then I do think he'd feel safe being a trader. Right. 'cause I do think you're like, if another trader is gonna feel like they can take Rob out, they have to be someone who knows they have a strong alliance.

Right. 

That could take him out. But I also feel like Rob would only pick someone who he knows, doesn't have strong alliances. 

Yeah. 

And like. 

It's tough. I kind of just wanna see it. 

Yeah. 

I wanna see him do traitor for like a day. 

I do. 

But you make a great point. You make a really good point. And it would be also good television to see him reject it.

Like 

Yeah. I way it would be good television to have him reject it. He's killed and then like Rob has to go back to the drawing board. 

Yeah. 

And and it's just, and 

really test him. 

Yeah. 'cause even Steven I would think would be like my name got brought up at the last round table. If you try to recruit me, like I will go out as a trader and provide you cover.

Yeah. 

Like I do think Johnny would say yes, Johnny would absolutely say yes and sorry, but I would love to see Rob and Johnny in that fucking turret. Totally. Johnny and Rob would be kind of very fun. That 

would 

be iconic. That would be iconic. 

So, and Johnny, Johnny would gladly be sacrificed for Rob. He would be like, yeah, I gave you cover.

I don't even care. You're welcome. 

Yes. I love Johnny. Um, I love Johnny. My God. Okay, well then last, very last question. If you were going to go on the traders, would you wanna be a trader or faithful? 

I have applied for the civilian version, 

so I, 

that there's, 

okay. 

I absolutely did apply. 

Okay, 

good. I don't know.

It is tough because I, obviously I'd wanna be a trader 'cause I think I'd be good at it. I think I wouldn't have a problem like that is the fun way to play the game. And I think I have one of those, I have one of those vibes I feel like where if I was a faithful, people would suspect I was a traitor. So I think I, I feel same.

Have a harder time being a faithful, like I just think I have one of those vibes where people would be like. She's too smart about something. Yes, yes. Like I'd be like one of the gamers they send home early. 

Yes, yes, yes. But 

if I was a traitor, I think I would try to play it up as just like, man, I'm a dumb stoner.

Yeah. 

How does this game even work? So kind of like 

from the Rob playbook a 

little bit. Yeah. I, from the Rob playbook of just like, it was always so funny when Rob would be like, this game moves so fast. 

I know. I love it. Oh my 

God. And then Rob would be like, Rob, you'd be so good as a traitor. You're like always thinking of the next steps and thinking one move ahead.

And it was like, and then he'd just, and the next thing would be like, it moves so fast, man. I just, I just don't get it. 

I'm just doing my thing. Oh my God. Okay. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for coming on and talking about the traitors and the fandom. Um, I want you to tell everyone where they can find you.

I also wanted to ask you, um, if you, if you find Ashley Rae, which you absolutely should go to her website, you're going to find out that she makes crafts. Yes. And she also donates the, the proceeds or a portion of the proceeds to a coalition for Humane immigrant rights, which I know is really important to you.

Yes. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that too. 

So the Coalition of Human Immigrant Rights? Yes. Uh, or Shela. I am specifically working with the LA chapter. Uh, they work with, uh, immigrants who aren't able to work right now because of the ICE raid. They help them find alternative sources of income, uh, including donations.

So any money given to them really does go right into the hands of families who need it. They also provide legal help to anyone who is currently in ICE detention. Uh, and they have, if you are in LA and want to join a Rapid Response network, uh, Shela runs the largest one in Southern California. If you. See ice somewhere.

They have a number that you can contact or text, call, whatever to let people know, and they will get people there to film things, to help people get legal advice, uh, and even to stop ice from taking people. So they're an amazing, amazing resource. Uh, and right now all of the proceeds from my wonderful crafts, which includes phone cases, buttons, love, 3D stickers, because I got a cricket machine and lost my mind, um, credible.

So the money I'm giving to that, you can get a lot of like abolish ice gear. Uh, and every two weeks I'm giving to a different org. So next week, uh, it will be, uh, oh ice outta minnesota.org. 

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, 

yeah. Gotcha. Um, but I think they have a, it's like min. I cannot, it's like Minneapolis, I'll find it, but the ice out, I'll put it in the thing.

The ice out of Minnesota org is who I will be supporting next week. Perfect. Uh, but right now, if you go get something, it'll be shela and uh, you can follow me at the Ashley Ray if you wanna see some of the stuff I made or you want my TV takes, or if you wanna know how I feel about Rob on Traders, the Ashley Ray on Threads.

Yeah. 

You will not regret following her on threads. It's like, like I said at the beginning of the show, one of my biggest joys every single day. 

I am a one woman, Candace, I will hold you accountable. Like 

you, we gotta hold her accountable. Yes. 

Like Canice, use that Porsche home 

and Porsche's my favorite housewife of all time, so 

I love Chris.

I feel some type of way about that. So yeah. Okay, well, well thank you so much and you guys know where to find me at who TF knows Emily Rose on Instagram, on Threads, WTF k Emily Rose on Twitter, and uh, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And I think that's about it. I will talk to you guys later. Bye bye.