Levi King

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Flyway Connections is brought to you by our partners who keep us chasing birds all season long. We're talking about DOW outfitters in Arkansas delivering unforgettable guided hunts in the heart of the flyway. DH decoys, American-made, time-tested decoys built to last season after season. A bear custom decoy rigs, keeping your spread dialed in with reliable, handbuilt rigs that stand up to any condition. RMC calls from the duck line to any world championship stage. They just work, designed to allow you to grow to your full capacity. No fancy marketing, no gimmick, just quality sound and craftsmanship. And they say you can't follow it to turn. Small stop, big sound. And also, hot repellent is a deep-free, stem-free, insect repellent made for hunters, fishermen, or anybody who wants to enjoy the outdoors. Remember, DEET is dead.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

We do not have Chris with us today. He's out there doing some baseball stuff, coaching high school baseball. So he'll be on us with the next one. But I have special guest today, buddy of mine, fellow guide, DLW outfitters uh guide. Um, we like to call him the radio of Spec Bogies, honey. We have Levi King. Hey Levi, how you doing today, buddy?

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Not too bad, man. How's it going?

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Not too bad. Ladies and gentlemen, me and um me and Levi did a lot of bunny guiding this year for early spec, and uh it was um it was quite comical at times. Yeah, I'd say so. But definitely on the low days kept us um kept using entertaining. Yeah, kept us laughing, kept us laughing. I'll tell you what, I've never laughed so hard. Um not not just guiding for specs, but scouting for the specs on an off day with me driving around for hours looking for birds. Your cheeks were hurting. Yeah, he means the cheeks on his face too, ladies and gentlemen. Oh man. But um, dude, tell how you know, before we started this podcast off, how did you get into outdoors? Did you grow up uh waterfowl hunting? And because you are, I mean, you are all around outdoorsman. How'd you get into it to it?

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Uh man, I got into it really young with my dad. Um, a bunch of my dad and his friends, um, Klamath Basin, uh, pretty well known. It's actually as not well known as a lot of people talk about. A lot of people haven't heard it. Um, just over on the uh west coast. And you know, dogs were kind of my thing. Uh if if it wasn't for a duck dog, I I wouldn't be involved in it. But uh yeah, just dad and family and getting out there on the Klamath River and in the Klamath Marsh and killing what we could kill.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

So the uh a lot of times I talk to guys and I even dudes later in their hunting lives, um, you know, guys are getting later in life, you know, they say dogs is a thing that gets them into, you know, even if it's deer hunting, coon hunting, uh rabbit hunting, but up and game hunting, the the bond between man and dog really gets them into you know these outdoor activities.

SPEAKER_05 3:38

100%. Yeah, there's not a species of game that I enjoy hunting that does not involve a dog, um, outside of big game, but anything else that I enjoy hunting, dog has to be involved. Um, I'm kind of one of those guys that if my dog doesn't come, I don't go.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

So yeah, he man, his dog Goose was uh again, Goose is a champ.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Yeah, he's a pretty dang good dog. He uh I forgot what the actual number was uh at the end, but he put in some marks this year. Um Drew got to run him, uh fellow, another fellow guy that we had and just loved the heck out of him. But uh yeah, went to uh southern Oregon and he he made some of the longest retrieves I think he had all season.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

So yeah. So, you know, you grew up hunting, and you grew up hunting, you know, big game, waterfow fowl, and you know, because you kind of grew up on the on that west coast, right? Up in Oregon. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

Quail, um I mean, a lot of uh valley quail hunted, I mean, got really into that. Um duck skis, specs in the spring. Um did some bobcat hunting, uh, fell in love with bobcat hunting. Um deer hunting, you know, just never was really good out there.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Um yeah, you go up there because you know, you say a lot of people don't know where the clam is. Uh for me, I knew what clam is I I grew up in the Sacramento Valley, Sack Valley. Yep. I know you probably grew up hating, you know, the guys down in Sack Valley.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Oh yeah, no, I had somebody's down there, and it was always uh it was always back and forth, you know.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

But you know, the Klamath was kind of you know, the clam is a huge basis, it's kind of part of the Sack Valley as well.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Yep, it all runs right down into cat Northern California um and starts, yeah, probably up northern Klamath, uh agency lake runs all the way down, and they all kind of tie in, I said, I feel into that Sack Valley. You're running the same birds, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:41

I mean so you you know, for us and deer, like we I grew up deer hunting as well. I just didn't really get into it kind of like you did. Because we kind of had we had the we have what we call the black tail deer, and maybe a little bit on the east coast or the east side of the state. Yeah, we had some a few mulies, but yeah, majority of ours was blacktail.

SPEAKER_05 5:59

Uh yep, same, same there in Klamath. Uh, a lot of blacktail, a lot of there is spots with mulies, but then you'll get we call them bench laggers, they kind of mixed at some point. Um but yeah, just population isn't there. And I could go into an hour-long opinion on why that is, but uh not gonna um you guys have Tule Elk as well. Uh Rose No, there's Roosevelt elk. Uh I think it's Roosevelt elk.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

Yeah, we have we we I mean they could be real, we always call them Tule Elk, but we get them kind of they're kind of more in the foothills. Um the foothills are running along the the coast of the California on the west, and like the western part of the state.

SPEAKER_05 6:43

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

We'll get them like in the Mount Diablo area and everything and stuff like that. Um you know, they just look like a smaller elk.

SPEAKER_05 6:52

Right. Yep. Um yeah. You know everything? I don't know. That uh West Coast, um yeah, it's like your blacktail. Your blacktail's a much smaller deer. I mean, everything just different, man. It's a different country, and I've hunted them all over the place, and it's just crazy to me how different everything really is. State by state, same species of animal, but they're different. They've learned to adapt to that country in a way that other animals, if you put into that country, would never be able to do.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:24

Did you guys have a pheasant up there in Oregon? Uh no, you know, they there is the um Miller Island, they put them out, but I don't I don't feel that there's ever been a substantial wild population. Um, I know in parts of Oregon there is, uh, back down where I was. I mean, they'd go open in day and go throw out pen raised birds, and that's kind of how you did it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

Yeah, California, we had uh a pretty uh back in the 90s, we had a really good population of uh wild birds. Um then farming practices kind of kind of killed some out with the pesticides they're using.

SPEAKER_05 8:02

Yep. And that's well, that's where the pesticides and weed killers and everything. It's a broad spectrum, it kills it all, right? Yeah, so it kills edges where those birds like to hang out. Well, if there's not an edge on a field, there's not gonna be a pheasant in that field.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Well, yeah, because a bobcat coyote got it.

SPEAKER_05 8:18

Yep, and that's kind of where their cover is, and like old farming styles when we didn't use a lot of that stuff. Yeah, you just you use your roads, had edges on them, and that's where your pheasants were. But now when you use broad spectrum weed spray or whatever it is, it's just kind of, I don't know, feel like it kills kills your habitat.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Yeah, yeah, it seems like the only bird that wasn't affected with everything on the west coast. And the last time I went home, there's tons of them all over the place. Those the valley quail.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yes, California quail.

SPEAKER_05 8:48

Yeah, the them them California Valley, they're survivors, but man, they I I so I'll tell you guys a story about a guy, a dog trainer in Montana, and we have really harsh winters in Montana. Um, he brought a bunch to dog train, and he started on a he started a population of valley quail. I mean, that's how tough they are. They can get through that negative 30 degree weather. But it was I was out uh foxtrapping, and I'm that's a valley quail. Oh, there's another one. He said, Yeah, they've been there for about three years now. They got out of my quail pen and they just made their own little covey and it was wild.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

So you grew up hunting and all that, and yeah, I really want to get into in into your guiding stuff. Um I'm definitely I want to go back to a certain type of use I want to talk about here a little shortly. Yeah, minus favorite uh the tooling use, but guiding-wise, you guided everything, yeah, and you know, from Montana over west. Um yeah, can't tell if yours give us a rundown of everything you guided you you you guide for.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Man, uh waterfowl in countless different states. Um Mountain Lions in Montana, um Big Game in Montana, um Elk, Colorado. Um, I've been down to Texas, guided on some um exotic ranches. Uh yeah, turkeys all over Wisconsin, Michigan, guided them in Florida, guided them in uh New Mexico. Um yeah, just pretty much decided one day there's two things I'm good at guiding and training bird dogs. And just one day said, Yeah, I'm gonna do it. There's no I'm young, I'm able, I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

I mean, you're also good at being the butt of the joke, too.

SPEAKER_05 10:44

Yeah, you know, I I'll take it once in a while. I'm just not I'm just not that quick. You guys are making jokes, I'm looking at the birds. Oh I'm doing my I'm doing my duty.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

Do your duties, yeah. Hey, so out of all the stuff you you guide, what is your favorite?

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Oh, it's a toss-up between mountain lions and speckabellies. Um there are I when I think of what my favorite is, it is what I would quit another top for another one. Um and I think that if the conditions are right and the snow's right, that I will quit a speck of belly hunt for a mountain lion hunt any day of the week. So, and I just think I don't know, it's you and the mountain. It's you in the mountain and the mountain lion and a pack of dogs that and that's it. You know, there is no, I mean, you like in the waterfowl world when you're your dog retrieves a bird when it's done, you gotta knock the bird down first. So you're you're relying a lot on yourself. Now on the mountain lion hunting, I have to rely on my dogs, and if they are not at their top, then we're not gonna get that cat caught.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Yeah, and so and that's kind of you. I mean, you got you're also a professional dog trainer. You that's stuff that you put in all year round training those.

SPEAKER_05 12:03

Oh, yeah, it's constant, constant every day of the week. There is no days off. I mean, if you want your dog to perform to the ability of that dog, there is no, there's no quitting. There's it's an everyday Monday through Friday, Christmas. I mean, all of it.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

It doesn't dogs are you used to uh for the mountain lion?

SPEAKER_05 12:24

Uh, so I've used everything. I used to, I had a pack when I was in Montana, I had a pack of hammerbred blue ticks that you know, what I just awesome dogs. Um, had some life things happen, had to sell out for a bit, um, and then got back into it. And then I got some black and tans um out of Tennessee that I mean, I treat more mountain lions with them than any other dog I've ever had. So I mean, it was a grind. And we we started treating mountain lions in parts of Montana that nobody had ever treated Mount treated Mount Lion in. Um, we kind of went everywhere. Uh, right on the North Dakota border, uh, Culberts in Montana. I mean, I had game warden saying there is there's no mountain lions here, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And we went out and we found two and caught one of them. And yeah, there we just kind of, I mean, those dogs are so good that yeah, it I kind of fell out of it, but they made me fall right back into it again.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Yeah. What what is it that gets you with? I mean, besides your dogs and stuff, like is it an adrenaline rush? I know you told us some stories out of it. Oh, that's kind of that sounds pretty sketch. Yeah, no, it's I think it's is it's an adrenaline rush, of course.

SPEAKER_05 13:42

Um, but I think it's just a proud moment of the dogs, you know, like, okay, we're in a six mile, we're we're on mile six here. Are we gonna catch this line or are we not? This is where the dogs need to start. I mean, just like you're running a track race. Okay, now it's time to push. Let's get pushing. And then, you know, in some of the country that I've been into, I mean, I'm talking hundred-foot rock walls, like, how am I gonna get up there or how am I gonna get down? You know, it's just all of it to the hike in, to the hike out, to the mountain line. What's the lion gonna do when I get there? Is he gonna jump? Is he gonna turn around? Is he gonna fight the dogs? Is he gonna climb down the tree? Is he gonna run? Like, we don't know. It just there's so many unknowns. And, you know, I mean, climbing over two ridges six miles in, finally hearing your dogs, like, man, they still got them caught. Yeah, I think it's just all. Um, until I mean, I grew up lion hunting, and I personally have never killed a mountain lion myself. Um, I used to, I treed uh in western Montana, I treed, I'd say, close to 50 lions in a winter, and I never killed one of them. I walked in there with the camera, six miles in, got a picture, walked back out. You know, that just shows you it's not about what's mountain lion's not about the kill for me. I can go in there, I can tree a lion, I can go and let that lion go and get out. And don't my definition of success is not a picture with a dead lion. My definition of success is a picture of the lion in the tree. So, and that's where it varies so much different from waterfowl hunting, right? If we don't kill that goose, my dog can't retrieve that goose. Yeah, I mean, I can go retrieve 30 lions and let 30 lions go, and you know.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

I wish I got paid to speckle to um decoy speckle belly and not have to happen in the trap. Yeah, no kidding. Just watch them, yeah. Not even just watching like, all right, clients, don't worry about killing them. Just pretend me the same at the end. Yeah, no kidding. Admire my handiwork. Yeah. Um but for the clients, um, you know, man, you know, when we're you know driving around Jonesboro area, you know, cash uh chase speckle belt. I know I bit your brain a lot. But do these dogs wear like protective stuff if that line does, you know, turn on those dogs?

SPEAKER_05 16:13

No, I think uh protective equipment is more of a hinder hindrance for them. Um my dog, they're pretty agile on the ground, and if you get some older dogs, they know how to handle a lion on the ground. Yeah, I mean, I will tell you what, a lion's claw will stick a hell of a lot better in a vest. You know what I mean? Like a corduroy type vest. There's a lot to stick into there versus the skin, you know. It's just I mean, things to get hung up on trees, branches, all that other stuff. Um, yeah, I it's it's a toss-up, I think.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

Um, I mean, like wearing a cup collar for like a pit dog. I think that's just that's a lot when you're running as much as these dogs are. That's a lot of just extra stuff to carry around.

SPEAKER_04 16:58

Yeah. But um, for you, you say you know, for a lot of times you just take a camera. Do you take a sidearm or uh a little head gun?

SPEAKER_05 17:07

Never had to.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

Really?

SPEAKER_05 17:09

Never worried about it a day in my life. As long as I got dogs. Yeah, it's just me and the dogs. I mean, I mean, in the end, those lions are more scared of you than anything else. Um, I mean, I've pulled them out of the tail, I've I've had young dogs pulled them out of the trees by their tails, and they don't want to turn around and fight me. They want to go away as quick as they can.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

So for the clients, usually what kind of I mean, how do they usually uh dispatch the the lions when when you're gonna go?

SPEAKER_05 17:36

Uh small caliber. I like to tell guys small calibers. Um, there's no reason. It's lions are really soft-skinned. Uh, so there's no reason to use a I mean a 30 caliber weapon is in my opinion too much. Yeah. Uh so that 223 range, I've had guys kill them with 22 mags. Um, bows, had a guy kill him, kill a couple with a bow one time. Um uh yeah. Lighter gun. Um, I always tell them don't aim for the head. I mean, a lot of people like to display their skull if they're lying. A lot of guys were like, oh, they want them dead. Well, your skull's gonna be blown into pieces if you shoot him in the head. So just shoot him in the body. I mean, we'll find them. We got them in the tree, we'll find them.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

So it was always always really interesting. And you do more you do say 90% of that in the in uh Montana, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_05 18:31

There, Oregon. Um, Oregon is a lot of bobcat hunting in Oregon. Uh they closed down that mountain lion season, and yeah. Next time let's have an hour-long conversation about Oregon's ODFW's politics.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Oh, well, a lot of you don't know. I mean, you hunting on wildcats on Mountain Lions, that that's you know, there is a big benefit for conservation for that. I know in California, we it almost seems like in California we were like overpopulated with mountain lions.

SPEAKER_05 19:02

Oh, they are. Oregon, Oregon, California have kind of the same view on it. And it, I mean, it's it's horrible. They're they're blaming deer numbers on. I mean, my dad lives in Klamath Falls, Oregon, downtown, kind of downtown on the lake, and they have mountain lions walking through town. When I was down there, Speck Hutting, there were mountain lions walking through town.

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 19:26

And um, you know, and that's because that's where their food source is, right? They've those there's so many lions that they have pressured everything in the out through, like in the woods and everything else outside of town, pressured them so heavy into town that now to go kill and make to eat something, they have to go and hunt them where they have pushed them into.

SPEAKER_04 19:49

Yeah. I mean, and that is how many, how many videos on on the internet do you see of ring cameras or whatever? Oh, it's wild.

SPEAKER_05 19:57

Chasing a cat or a dog, a small dog. It's wild, or I mean, there's one in Klamath where while I was there, I mean, it's a little shihtzu terrier, lion's got it in its mouth and he's walking down the road with it. I mean, they're predators, they're opportunistic predators. Um, yeah, there's a deer that's gonna run really fast, or there's grandma's dog that's gonna sit there and bark at me. I'll take grandma's dog.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Yeah, you know what it's funny for the anti-people against that. It's all fun and games. Yeah, I guess they don't see it like how gods like me. You say it's mother nature. It's there's the other side besides that purty looking majestic cat.

SPEAKER_05 20:32

Absolutely. There's checks and balances in any predator prey species, and you have to manage them and you have to do it appropriately. And if you don't, one's gonna overpower the other and one's gonna take it out to the point where there's just not gonna be anything left.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:48

I mean, and a lot of people are like, oh, well, let's lower our hunting tags so that not as many deer get killed. Well, a mountain lion kills a deer a week. Now, and if you do the math on a deer a week, on a number of lions, etc., that is a lot of deer. Yeah, way more than the hunter. And what they'll do is they'll eat till there's no more deer left, then they'll move to a different species. And everybody, there's like a lot of people in Montana that are like, oh, not we we don't need to kill these lions. We uh and a lot of houndsmen are very against killing lions. But what you don't understand is once it's not good for the lions either. I mean, the lions will eat themselves out of house and home, and then there's nothing to eat. Yeah, you know, so then we're gonna move on to livestock and other different prey items. Well, then now you're just gonna get shot. If you start eating on cows, you're gonna get shot. Well, it hits your it hits their pocketbook, it hits someone's 100%. 100%. I mean, you're from California. There's the big wolf debate, the big wolf going on right now, and it's wild. I just watched a documentary on it, and it's absolutely crazy to me what is happening on a predator prey level that. We're not, I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

It's just super, yeah, it's super weird that you said that because growing up, we didn't really have wolves in the 90s.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

No, they were they're an introduced species. Species. I mean, and well, they they're not introduced. We did always have wolves, they died off, they got killed off, and then now they've introduced, and I think everybody's pissed off about it. They introduced the wrong species of wolves. They introduced some big giant 150-pounder from northern Canada, and that was not the wolves that we had in Oregon, California, Montana, even. They're not the same wolves. Wolves, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

And I think that we do wrong when we introduce something that's been taken out for hundreds of years. Hundreds of years, and you reintroduced a different species that's alright, it's you know, just like you said, a German shepherd and a shih too, they're both dogs, right? But there's a big difference of what kind of dog they are, hundred percent, and then you flood it into an ecosystem that hasn't seen that in hundreds of years.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 22:59

There's nothing alive in that ecosystem animal-wise that even knows what that thing is. And then you're like, I have I think sometimes we intervene too much when we shouldn't. When we shouldn't, yes, and then we intervene too much to try to fix it, and we we make things worse because when we intervene, we don't it seems like we we wait too, we don't wait, we react with a knee-jerk reaction too soon before to look at a you know, can this ecosystem you know sustain these animals and whatnot?

SPEAKER_05 23:35

I mean, and it's heck man, I mean there's two species that I and that's the grizzly bear in Montana and the wolf. I mean, they did the same thing with the grizzly bear in Montana, they introduced the grizzly bear, and now the grizzly bear is skyrocketed, but problem is when they introduce these animals, they're introducing animals that have so they they have such protections on them, um, as in uh endangered species acts, right? Yes, so the wolves that so that literally ties the state's hands, everybody's hands, to we're gonna introduce a species, but we aren't going to introduce a plan that if this gets carried away. Yeah, we're gonna introduce and say, hey, we're gonna throw this in, but we're gonna make them an endangered species so nobody can touch them. And then, like they did it with the grizzly bear in Montana. It's an but there is no plan in the end that okay, what happens if these grizzly bears start coming into town and start killing people and this and that and that, and like how do we regulate them?

SPEAKER_04 24:36

I mean, the that's like I mean, like I have right here in my office, um, you know, California flag. Right. There is a grizzly bear on it back in the 18th, you know, early 1800s. California was riddled. I mean, it was the natural area for grizzly bear. And you know, through expansion, over harvesting. Oh, and you learn about it in school in California. It wasn't, it wasn't what we did to the grizzly band in California, it was an eradication. Let's not call it over harvesting or whatever, it was an eradication, right? Yep. California is real big on farming, real big on livestock, sheep, goats, cattle. Um, and when you hit someone's pocketbooks, people get upset, right? Yes, they do. No, I can't, I couldn't even imagine, fathom them bringing back grizzly bears to California.

SPEAKER_05 25:33

Yeah, no, and it's like Montana, I've seen them in person, and they are probably one of I mean, just an airy feeling. That I mean, I can't tell you how many guys I know personally that have been mauled by them. I mean, they're they shot down a whole campground because a grizzly bear pulled a dead elk off the side of the road and buried it in the middle of the campground, and that campground was shopped for the summer. Yeah, because you couldn't go anywhere near it, you know. I mean, and they're giants, they are the biggest. I'm man, if you saw one in person, I mean they are giants, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:11

I mean, I don't I've seen them in zoos, I can only write how big they are in the wild.

SPEAKER_05 26:16

Man, they're I mean, it's just wild to me. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

So, yeah, so you mean this is a waterfowl show, so let's get on to the water.

SPEAKER_05 26:26

Yeah, let's get back to some some some uh I know what you want to talk about, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

So, speck of belly geese and geese in general, right? I know I know you're you know you duck on a lot of you guide the ducks, but you're kind of like me where um geese is kind of our passion, right? Yeah, especially specs and snows. Um I'll dabble in the honkers a little bit, but man, you get to hunt and guide professionally for these specs um from the from the west coast down here to the Mississippi, yes, sir. Would you think? I mean, this year was your first year hunting so far south. How about hunting in Arkansas early spec compared good and bad to we'll say the central flyway in Montana and the Dakotas all the way to the West Coast? So what what how would how would us down here compare to what you used to up there?

SPEAKER_05 27:24

Man, it was a learning curve for sure. Um, birds acted different. Um I will say one thing. I am used to hunting birds that have a flight pattern of morning feed, head to root, head to loaf, feed in the evening. It seemed like in Arkansas, you never looked up in the sky and didn't see a flock of birds flying. I don't care what time of day. Speck the bellies. I mean, they just there's so many different areas and flooded fields and possibilities for them, right? To go versus like, let's talk Montana. There is one on the on the Saskatchewan border, there is where I hunt them, there's one pond, one big body of water, and that's it. So that's where you know they're gonna roost, you know they're gonna loaf, you leave that alone, and then hunt all the outlying fields. Arkansas was and same kind of way in Oregon as well. Um, same kind exactly the same way in Idaho. Um, but Arkansas, there's just so many options. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's it's just it's it's wild to me. They there's they always have their flight lines, but they just fly, in my opinion, with no purpose.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Like, uh, we're gonna fly around and then ooh, this looks good.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Yeah, for me, California is kind of the same way as Arkansas, and you're down in the Louisiana word.

SPEAKER_05 28:48

So California down in the Sack Valley is very cons is very the same, is comparable to Arkansas. Southern Oregon is not, yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

Yeah, it's very different. I think it has to do with California with all the different refuges they can they go to, and we have rice and flooded rice, and you know, some dry rice. So they you know they have different options, uh options, but um what do you think was your I mean besides that? Um you talked about learning curves. What was your biggest learning curve that you felt uh in Arkansas?

SPEAKER_05 29:25

Trafficant specs. Yep. Um, I'm used to setting on feeds, um different style of calling. Um, I don't think I've ever been just great on a spec call. I think hunting with you guys made me better on a spec call and how to read a speckle belly better. I've always been able to read them, but you guys read them on a different level. Um and you have to. I mean, when birds are doing this and you know, and you're trafficking, or one flies by, doesn't really want to be there, but you want to put them there, it's different than hey, there's 5,000 in this weight field, they're gonna be there tomorrow. And you basically just keep them centered up, right? Yeah, give them a cluck here, a yodel there, and just center them up in the hole. They already want to be there. So traffic inspects probably was, and that's kind of what I feel like we did in Arkansas. There was times that we set up where okay, there were birds, but where you and I hunted, I don't think either one of that's where they roosted or that's where they loafed or that's where they fed. Real traffic.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

Yeah, that's why I really like the specs down here. It kind of reminds me of like what people look you know, the malard duck, you know, the real call up, right? You can call on. And my favorite thing, you know, and I know you say, you know, uh you pick on me because I you know I am about the calling aspect of it, is I like breaking those high groups of specs. And specs is so, you know, when you don't when you start getting there's days that mean you had would work the a big spin of specs, right? Yeah, when you start working those big you know spin specs, especially with clients, it's to that to me is a show. That's our money maker, right? 100%, yeah. The clients, you know, and you're kind of hoping like please, please kill these birds, please don't hit. But it's it is that moneymaker where you know with the speckle belly, they get to see that show. It's almost like a um it's the dance you do. You know, you're calling the bird, you know, we set up the decoys in a certain way, and um, it's almost like a um this dance you do.

SPEAKER_05 31:39

I also think it's I mean, the noises that a speckle belly makes, right? They make such, and a lot of people don't I they don't take that like with the spec, right? Yes, like for me, it's the noise, and also they have a f every single one of them has a fingerprint across their chest, their own fingerprint, everyone's different, yeah, you know, and that's I'm yeah, I think I have a lot of clients, we'd have some big spins, and you could just watch the tension in the blind go from okay, we're gonna kill so oh my gosh, what is happening when it gets so loud that you can't even hear yourself, Colin, and they just start doing it themselves.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Yeah, I mean, yeah, you know, you said it perfect with a fingerprint across your chest. Uh, I tell everyone, you know, if you're gonna go to DLWs, you're gonna come, you know, down here to Louisiana or wherever, if you want to target spec, go for three days. Yeah, uh, because you want to get you know, down here in Louisiana, you get a two-bird or three bird limit. Or so it's a two-bird limit. Now, on the on on the west coast, we get those big numbers, right? Yeah, but 10, 10 bird limit. 10 and 15.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

But they're I mean, Montana's so Montana doesn't actually have a speckle belly quota. It's a dark goose, right? It's a considered a dark goose. Yeah, I so last night, I think it's five dark geese in Montana. So, yeah, you can kill, you just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:01

Yeah, you know, I tell the clients, I mean, if you want to spec for table fair, uh chickens and eat just as good as you know whatever. 100%. But for the the wall hanger, you know, a lot of guys to me. Well, I like it about spec, it's to me, it's a big game of the bird world because it's so individual. A honker looks like they all look the same, a cackler, all look the same, unless you like, yeah, yes, even a mallard, yeah. Mallard, oh all these ducks and everything, but the spec is the one that there's they're an end of each bird's an individual, every single bird is different, none are alike. Yes, and I say for three days, go for three days if you want if you're going for the a wall hanger, right? Because it you know, you might kill two chickens the first day, yep, a chicken and and and a barred up one, but the bars aren't that great, or you broke a wing the wrong way. Go for three days and hunt and really you know pick the target, yeah, target birds, and also that if you're paying for it, when we get these big spins, you know, pick a bird that you like, yep, and and shoot. I know say all that's that's easier said than done, right? Because even me, guys like me and you, we still get kind of excited and just drill into y'all first two birds we see pop. But right, I tell guys, when I get them down at a treetop level and they're flipping, some have landed. Start picking out that bird you want. One is to help you shoot better and bring the bird out. I think a lot of guys, and we've seen it this year, we throw the doors open, kill them, and they just they're trying to find a bird. Yeah. As and as you know, I'm that telling when before you mount that gun, when I flip out the doors open, lock eyes on a bird, bring gun to bird, you know, then shoot. Right, you're gonna have a you know a greater success rate. Yep, but it kind of helps you pick out that nice bird that you want for the wall. Right.

SPEAKER_05 35:06

See, and I I remember calling you when I was Oregon, and that's another topic I want to get into is genetics on spackle bellies and what your opinion is on it.

SPEAKER_04 35:14

Oh man, this is y'all, y'all dude. There's gonna be a part two on this. Uh we're about to be a long episode. Man, I will say this. I I hunted two states this year, uh, Arkansas and Louisiana, and it's all the same fly flyway. Yep. Um, but I seen y'all all you guys seen buddies back in Sac Valley, I've seen you. I had buddies hunting um Nodak this year. Um and I seen a lot, a lot of really barred up birds this year. I think this is the most barred up, really barred up birds that you know that we this, you know, that that we've harvested a lot. Yeah. Um you know, when I first started speculating hunting, I thought bars meant maturity.

SPEAKER_05 36:09

Correct. A lot of people still think that.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

Yeah, still think that. And that's not, you know, in the last probably about 10 years, I got really educated, you know, hunting around people, hunting with biologists, talking to a lot of biologists. And that's kind of a if you said a genetic trait, you know, for a lot of people don't know, the way I kind of um uh age my bird is the white front around the around the around the beak and sound, a little bit of sound, right? When they're when they're when they're cackling, you can tell the difference between a juvie bird trying to yodel compared to a mature bird.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

100%. Yes, I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 36:55

What do you think what what flyway for specs do you think has the best that you think that you think has the best uh genetics when it comes to pretty specific flyway?

SPEAKER_05 37:06

Uh 100. Yeah. I this year in Oregon, I saw some of the darkest birds. And I I remember calling you and trying to talk to me about it a little bit. Um, like I mean, let's just talk about the tar belly, right? Big black chested bird. It was nothing in Oregon to kill three, four of those a day. And I'm talking just straight black. And it was like Arkansas, very rare. Like if you got a tar belly, I was sending a picture in the group chat about tar belly. It wasn't, I mean, and then I like in Oregon, the chicken ratio, right? We killed one. Everything else was heavy bars and dark, thick splotches. No, just completely black.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

Do you think that on the chicken ratios because in Oregon you're hiding them later in the season?

SPEAKER_05 38:06

I don't right. So here's the thing birds to get those bars on their chest have to go through a molt.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Right. So now I'm not sure when the speckle belly molt is, but I don't think that it is before I don't think it's before March. Yeah. I think it's after March. Once they get up to their breeding grounds or wherever they're going, right? Yeah. Or their nesting grounds is when they molt. So, and I could be totally wrong on them. Yeah. But I know when birds molt, they can't fly.

SPEAKER_04 38:47

You have to call the flight feathers back.

SPEAKER_05 38:49

Right. So I think no, I that's kind of where that genetic thing comes into play in my mind.

SPEAKER_04 38:54

Yeah. And also with the tar bellies, because I we shot one this year when we in February, when you um guided those uh the veteran hunts. Yes. My group shot tarbelly. Um, I didn't shoot.

SPEAKER_05 39:10

That's that's when you guys were over there yelling and screaming and hollering and missing all the birds that you should have been hitting.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Ladies and gentlemen, all right. He puts a jab in. Who was big daddy both days? Who was who was daddy both days? I can't believe I showed, you know, who's big daddy?

SPEAKER_05 39:42

Oh, dude, I thought it was a good time. That was that was good to see you again, too. Yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

But do you think on the on the tar belly ratio it's because we get to shoot more on the west coast than in the oh east of us?

SPEAKER_05 39:54

No, I don't think that at all because just I mean, you've seen some of the pictures of the birds that we killed while we were down there, uh lined up in piles. Um I mean, there was no chickens. You know what I mean? They were all heavy barred up birds, and this we we don't pick. I mean, we point and shoot.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

So I don't know. I yeah, it's a tough one. It's something that I'd love to talk to about or a biologist and dive into a little more.

SPEAKER_04 40:28

Yeah, I wonder, I almost wonder if there's different family groups that go to different areas, or is there it?

SPEAKER_05 40:34

I mean, it could be something like that.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Or even subspecies that we don't even really talk about.

SPEAKER_05 40:40

Which one? Huh? The the ever so tuligoose?

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Tulligo, yeah. Yeah, we'll we'll get to that conversation in a bit. Um, because you know, I'm still kicking myself in the ass from the for that one. Oh man, yeah. You know, that's the only we'll get in that conversation. Oh, gonna be honest. But I y'all before we get into that, right before we get in that conversation, the thumbprint, you know, there, you know, yeah, the identical markers. Yep. I think everyone has their own um, you know, what they you know, what they think of a good looking speckle belly is. Absolutely. And I tell clients all the time, you know, we talk about they talk about mounting a bird. What I the you know, the way I like a bird, it could be different than what someone else does. Also, there's you know, I have, you know, like this the sweater you're wearing right now. Um we'll get to that here shortly. Uh I'll put a plug in for that. But I like a really barred up bird, you know, and you know, and everyone likes a um a what do you call it? Um a tar belly, right? I mean, I have a tar belly in my house, that's the only spec I have mounted. Um and then some there's there's sometimes I like when they just get those little, you know, the specks, or they're just little dotted specks. Yep. Um, so I tell them, you know, individuals.

SPEAKER_05 42:16

Like I noticed in Arkansas, the brightness, and I wondered if it's because of Arkansas mud, like the rice fields that they're in, that it dolts down those feathers a little bit. But I'll tell you in Oregon and P or in uh for that spring spec season, they were some of the darkest, blackest bellies that I've seen. I mean, and we get them every year there, but Montana stink kind of dull, you know. Arkansas, definitely dull. Yeah. On color wise, I went back and looked through pictures of specs in Arkansas and in Oregon, and you could side-by-side comparison, same type of bars, but dull in Arkansas, bright black, deep, vibrant black. Yeah. But and I I my only thought to that would be the rice fields, right? Yeah, the red rice fields, yeah. The muddy rice.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

And you know, even in in California, the rice field mud is a little bit different, it's not as gumboy and sticky. Correct.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

Yeah, and in Southern Oregon, we don't hunt rice there. It is pasture hunting, yeah. Um, those birds are targeting. We'll get into that, but they they they make a switch, and I kind of I'll get into that on a switch that I noticed.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Yeah. Well, hey, let's you know let's start diving in that west coast bird a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Yeah, no, um the full goose. The the what?

SPEAKER_05 43:41

The tooly goose, the tuli goose, okay. I don't know. There's I've heard so many different things about it. I've heard that at one point they were illegal to shoot. I've heard that you know what I mean? Yeah, and there's different years. Three two years ago, there and for For people that don't know what a Thuli goose is, it's a subspecies of a two of a speckle belly on the west coast. It's known on the west coast, and it is a bigger bird, much bigger, like visibly bigger, less bars, like speckled, like you were talking, Joe. Or even no bars, some people, or no bars at all, but a big giant goose with you can tell by looking at his head that wow, holy cow, just the head size difference.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Yeah. Um, but yeah, there's so many.

SPEAKER_05 44:34

I don't know. I feel like there's so many rumors about him, and whether they're true or not, and some people don't believe it. Yeah, and I've tried talking to biologists, I've tried to do it. There's not a lot of research done on it. There's enough to get that okay, there was a biologist at some point that said there is a subspecies of a spalk belly goose. Yeah. But there is no real hard data. I mean, there is hard data. I mean, I've seen pictures, and but this, I don't think it's been continued.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

Yeah, I I think people just say they they talk about their existence, they know that they're in a small population. Uh, they know that they're basically in the Klamath Basin basin, they're in the Klamath Lake area, and then they come down here in the Sack Valley. They'll go to the Sack, I'm here in Louisiana now, but they go to the Sack Valley. Um, and that's kind of where the research stops at. It's on that 100%.

SPEAKER_05 45:24

It goes no farther than that. And you know, and I think there's only one or two um really talks about it. Yeah. Like, and it's not heavily researched, but it's definitely something that I've seen. Like, I there was a couple years ago that we I mean, and you can tell when you line those birds up. Like that thing is the size of a small Canada. Yeah. With no bars. Well, it was four years ago.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

I showed you the picture at DLW. And it was at it was at the 160. Um sixty, it was the last day of the seas of early spec. Me and um Sharp are we used to be the head guide over in DLW before Cisco, and he and Cisco knows him, they've got it together. Um we were like, we cleaned up, we're like, dude, it was our last day. We cleaned everything up the night before. We had one field to clean up. And we're like, hey, dude, let's go. We'll shoot, we'll shoot our two geese, and we'll clean this, we'll clean it up and we'll we'll head out. We'll head out early, go back to the get back to the families. He's like, all right. And that morning we shot, we shot our four specs and some uh some bonus snows, but I actually I shot this bird, and I'm like, this is the biggest chicken I have ever seen. And we had we shot some real mature bar-birds that day. And we went back and we were looking, I'm like, but this looks like a tool of use. I'm like, oh, there's no way, you know, we're here in Jonesboro, Arkansas, you know, Walnut Ridge area. No way, no way. I started sending pictures out to people, and then that's where the that's where the whole argument and everything gets you. Some people were saying, guys on the West Coast, like, hey, I think that is one, but we never heard one getting that far east. Locals are saying, no, that's not, you know, that's no, that's just a big chicken. I've had guys say, hey, we've seen big chickens like this before. And you know, it's just you know, it's it's it's just a different genetic bird, which kind of is what a tool it uses, right? Right. And um, I took side by side pictures of it and I sent them to you, and you know, and I keep it, and I was like, if I knew it was a uh a tool at use, I was in a mountain announcement. Right. And then I got I got so many of like yay or nays, and I was like, you know what, dude?

SPEAKER_05 47:51

I'm just gonna breast it out and eat it. Um I've been in the battle with forums, with Facebook pages, and a lot of it is you know how the internet works, you get a bunch of people that have never even seen one, know nothing about it, but are gonna tell you that no, it's not. It must have been a good idea. You know what? But in my mind, there's there's no way. I mean, there's it's just not. I definitely agree that there's a subspecies, I definitely agree that there is a Thule Goose out there, and I have, I mean, I've put them side by side together, just like you have, and looked at the head size, the foot size, the foot, and the no bars.

SPEAKER_04 48:30

Yeah, and that's that day the foot size and the beak size, and the overall body size.

SPEAKER_05 48:36

Yeah, that's the way they say that's what they've said in these um uh deals that they've done on Thule geese, is a way to tell is the bill size.

SPEAKER_04 48:46

Yeah. That foot was almost as big as my hand.

SPEAKER_05 48:50

Yeah, I mean, they're giants. And this, so for example, two years ago, we killed a pile of them. It seemed every other goose was a huge goose, and it's very hard. And they say you can't shoot them. When they're coming in with a flock of specs and decoying, it's very hard to be able to say it's almost impossible. This is a Tully goose, this is a spec. Yeah, it's almost impossible. So I just started and I'm holy cow, this year in Oregon, 140 birds on the ground, not one of them. Really, not a single one. You said you had to get you had a guy shooting in Montana, though. Yes, we did. We there was a day or year that we shot Apollo, really, and same thing, put them together, foot size, um just look like a different goose, the head's built different. Um, yeah, they're just a different goose. Yeah, and they sound in my opinion, they sound different. Really? In my opinion, I've heard them and I've like a single, like, holy cow, there's they don't they don't have a crisp yodel, they have more of a gargled, like, I just don't feel that they sound different or they sound the same either.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

So growing up in California, um in the 90s, I hunting in the 90s, like the late 2000s, I told guys, you know, everyone's like, oh man, it must have been nice having these 10 bird limits. I'm like, but when I was hunting in California before I moved out, we were at three snow limit. Right. One uh in some air parks of the cali of the state was one spec. And I think the highest uh when I was living there was two. Yeah. Um, I think towards the end, about the 2005 time frame, I think we went to five spec or three spec and five snows, and then I was out of nowhere just blowed up. Conturbation seasons happened, so which California doesn't really have a controversial, right?

SPEAKER_05 50:56

So Oregon has so Oregon's different. So during the regular duck and goose season, you don't see speckle bellies. So they you don't even see them on their flight down to the Sack Valley. The only time that I feel that the Klamath Basin gets speckled bellies is in the spring on their way back up. I mean, dad, I talk to dad every year. He's hunting the fall down there, talked to him last year. He said, No, I haven't seen his spec, haven't seen his speck, haven't seen his spec. One time he said, Yeah, I saw one group of specs 10,000 feet up, flying, hurt them. Yeah. But they go down to that sap valley and that's where they hang out. And you guys can you guys kill on them and work on them during the regular duck and goose season. We don't get them until that march, end of February, March. Yeah, and so you can't actually kill a speckle belly during the regular duck and goose season in the climate basin. Yeah, you're not allowed to kill them. But I think that's because they make put such a liberal spring limit on them, and you kill them in the spring. So they don't allow you to kill a speck. I don't care if there was thousands there, you're not allowed to kill them.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

Now, I've never heard in Oregon. Uh I've never hunted in Washington either, but I don't I know Washington has some weird goose rules that around around the call around the um the Canada goose, right? Because I think what there's 11 different species, subspecies.

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Yes, there's a child, yes, there's the Aleutian, the Duskies, I mean, there's all kinds of you have to go through a very liberal test to even kill honkers in what that Washington North area.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

Yeah, is the same way in our our um not our in um Oregon or is it yes, it's pretty much the same.

SPEAKER_05 52:52

So Oregon actually has a spring honker season. Yeah, I don't think many people know about that. It's on the coast, and it's a spring honker season that lines up with the specklebelly season, so it ends March 10th.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

So now is that a lot of uh giant hawkers, or is that uh Yeah?

SPEAKER_05 53:11

So I think there's yeah, cacklers. Uh, I know Northwest, they have a big like around that Portland area, big cackler season. Um, and I man, I've never done the spring season, and that's something that I want to do here in the near future is go down and just tag team it, do the spring hawker season as well as the spec season when I'm down there in Oregon. But yeah, there there's and I can't remember. Pardon I if it's the dusky or the illusion, one of them you can't you can't shoot. You can't shoot the illusion, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:46

Which but I was gonna tell you, don't put me over there because they're telling a dusky.

SPEAKER_05 53:51

They are man. Yeah, that is I mean, you have to base it. I I just don't, and it's one of those things, right? That I'm kind of the guy that, and I did the same thing up in uh with DLW. They wanted me to go hunt the diver pods. And I said, I don't want to hunt the diver pods because I can't tell the difference between a scop and a ringneck.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

I don't want to go up there. Don't don't set me up there.

SPEAKER_05 54:19

I remember uh Matt Masters, oh yeah, I said, Yeah, I'm not going.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

I'm standing up here where I know what I'm doing, I'm not going up there. I've been I played this game with my father one time, and it was not a good game. Redhead camps back. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Kill him!

SPEAKER_05 54:44

But um but no, and then you know, I mean, there was a lot of cool perks like that day that I hunted with you, and we killed those two redheads in the rice.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

Yeah, I mean, and I thought they were cans.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

Yeah, those were pretty but those on there's blue beaks on them, buddy. Kill them, kill them. Oh man. But you know, getting to it, you're starting to wind down a little bit, and um, I definitely you know, there's a subject I want to talk. Uh I know we talked about we're gonna talk about this the end about kind of want to end up with the spectacular nation stuff. But you um I don't you're kind of like me. You're you're a realist with hunting, and you know, you're passionate about waterfowl. And me and you, you know, we've grown up in different areas, you know, we grew up in different places. Definitely we we both we neither of us live where we originally grew up at.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

Right. And we've hunted with everyone, we've hunted with people in the industry. Uh, I mean, we you know, you're a renowned dog trainer. Um, I mean, have your dogs are in magazines that you train, gun dog magazine. Um so and then that's a whole nother podcast. We can we could get but you're starting to see, and it's starting to calm down, and but it's a real sensit subject, and it you know, it has this flare-up selecting traffic. Um, you see everyone arguing about the you know, guys here in Louisiana against the guys in Arkansas, against the guys in Missouri, against guys in Illinois and and Minnesota, you know, flooded corn, uh baiting and all that. And you know, we're seeing different the migration is different, right? It's not it's not it's not the same from when I grew up, right? No, and we just talked about it in Speck about where I grew when I grew up, it was one spec. Right now, you know, now it's 10. Right. Um, you know, you could shoot seven mallards in California in Arkansas, you can shoot four, right? Um, you know, in the 80s in on the West Coast, you could shoot 11 birds, all 11 could be pintail. Now you know we can shoot three. What do you think the state of duck hunting, or just not even just duck hunting, waterfowling is with some of this division? And you know, dude is hunting everywhere. Like, what is your two cents in all of it?

SPEAKER_03 57:32

Oh, give me so.

SPEAKER_05 57:35

I mean, which way you want to go with that? Do you you want to go with like the difference of like our birds, like get into the corn talk? So I've I've never been personally around a lot of flooded corn. Um, I've hunted a little corn in Montana, so I'm really the wrong guy to talk about that, but I can talk about the difference in the migration that I've seen. And I feel that the flyways are changing, and whether it's a weather related, I don't know. So a lot of people say it's corn related. So I will tell you six years ago in Montana, there was never no speckle bellies there. There was no speckle bellies in Montana. I would say four years ago, we started getting specs, and then now people are killing specs all over in Montana. I mean, they don't target, they never targeted them like I think in Montana, I was the one guy, and to the point where people just called me a liar. They said, You went to North Dakota and killed those. And I said, No, I didn't. I killed them in Montana. Yeah, um, I just feel that's that flyways, the um Flathead Valley, uh western Montana, snow geese, never seen them. Now there's snow geese over there, you know. Um, I I feel like that flyways pushing from the from the east to the west is the way I feel.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:07

Um, just from what I've seen. Different, I mean, different species. I'm such a bad guy to talk to about South because Arkansas was the farthest south that I've like always wanted to do it, and I decided to do it last year, and it was better. But so it's tough for me to answer on that. But up in the northern, go ahead. Yeah, what's that food source up in the north?

SPEAKER_04 59:29

Oh, you guys is it corn?

SPEAKER_05 59:31

I know Montana's. No, it's uh wheat, it's uh pulse pulse crops, um wheat, beans, uh, not a lot of corn. Um, farther you get towards like Washington, um, Idaho, I feel like there's some more corn, uh, but barley is a big one in Idaho.

SPEAKER_03 59:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:49

Uh wheat, uh, Durham is big in um Montana. And that's usually where, and same up in Canada, Saskatchewan. It's wheat, Durham. Um, there's some corn up there, but I feel like it's mostly wheat and durham, and that's their food source. Yeah. But like you'll watch birds make a switch too, like, especially in Oregon. They'll make that switch from grain fields, rice, to green grass. Right? They all make that switch. Why they make that switch, I have no idea. You have I mean, you have a nice wheat field there that there's grain all over and they won't touch it. They'll go over the field that there's little sprouts of grass coming up.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:33

You know, you do see that um in down here in Louisiana, south, too. Um, yeah. Me and you over here, you know, I tell them our biggest headbutt with me and um Levi during the season was Levi seeing these green grass fields out in um yeah, Arkansas. Now, for me, in that area of Arkansas that we were hunting at, I will always like to hunt the flooded rice. Not a lot, it doesn't need to be a lot of water, but I always think that there's just a more success rate in that area. You can go down to Studdart and Brinkley and it's a little bit different. They want the dry fields down there, but right. I feel where we were at, the success rate was higher with cheap water and cut rice. Beautiful, beautiful green grass fields. Yeah, and in that time of the year, you just don't see them and hit that now.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:31

And in my head, I screamed speckle bellies for me because that's what I do in Oregon, is when you see that, that's your food source. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:40

Now flip the script post after Hollow, no, after Christmas, you guys started killing, and even when up in February when I came up to guide the last hunt with y'all, we they were killing geese in that dry, um, that dry field with the with the green grass. Uh, and that's when you guys put a permanent spread for the geese late January, early February. Um, yeah, so even down here, we still we see that switch. I don't know if it's like now we need that green protein to get up north again, right? Uh, you know, and feed the mussels, but you do, yeah, you definitely do see the switch. Um, do you think the corn, you know, and like I said, you don't hunt it. I've never I've hunted the only corn I've hunted was in Nebraska, and it was cut, it was cut corn. I've hunted in cut corn before. I've never hunted flooded, unharvested corn.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:36

So I guess here's my take on it, right? Um I think you have everything right with flooded corn. You have the feed, you have the water. You are making a perfect duck heaven right there. That's where they're most of the times. What this flooded, they're keeping it open during the winter as well. So I think naturally, yes, if you build it right, it is going to attract ducks and hold ducks. And ducks have a great memory. You know, they will go down, leave that, go come back, and they're gonna be there next year. So, yeah, I would say that it probably does affect like birds coming down to Louisiana. That if they don't have to leave where it's built for them, why would they build it? Why would they leave?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:25

Now, the flip side of that is when we were hunting in um Joe, uh, you know, Jonesboro Cache, Walnut Ridge area. Early early spec, you know, there's not corn there. No flooded corn. We're right in line with I mean, we're just we're right in line of that of Missouri. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

How many ducks did you see in the early spec season there in in Arkansas? Not a pile. Oh, like during early spec? I thought we see I have videos of I thought we'd seen tons of them. Compared to okay, okay, early spec yes, species.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

There are a lot of teal, a lot of yes, yeah, we did see quite a few ducks.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:18

Um yeah, there was they were there.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:23

I mean, open and day Arkansas ducks season, there was more ducks than I'd than I'd seen all year. Yeah, you know, throughout the whole, I mean, there was never a point in my mind that it really got better than uh open and day. Open and day, yeah. And I mean, you guys, uh all the things, oh, that we're gonna hit the freeze, we're gonna hit this, and then all these ducks are gonna come back. I think that we just had such weird weird weather that I never got to see that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:47

Yeah, well, I mean, we seen ducks again after the fall in uh February.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:52

Yes, we did. That is when we started seeing them come back and head.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:58

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so weird when people, you know. Uh me, I got crapped on. Everyone's seen it in uh on the Facebook where everyone, I don't know if people know on Facebook, that's where the guys who work at the factories become like geopolitical um experts, and they become biological, they come by biologists, yeah, and they're they're experts at it. Um but yeah, uh men, I think it's weird, you know. I tell everyone, me and Matt talked about it, you know, my first year Matt guided with us that how many ducks we've seen in that early spec. And dude, I started the more I hunted in Arkansas, and I watched us have these sanctuaries. Yes, absolutely, and these no hunt areas that we allow our birds to stick around there because I really started watching how much pressure does affect.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:00

Pressure is huge. And I think if you sit down in Arkansas, you will learn that very quickly. There's a thing also about like northern, like Montana, um, hunting up in there. There's your number of waterfowl hunters too, like, like, and I'll say it over Arkansas is the biggest waterfowl culture. Like, there is no waterfowl culture in Montana. I don't really feel like there is some culture in uh on the west side, waterfowl culture. Arkansas, Louisiana. I mean, it is a 100% culture of like this is what we do. Yeah. This is, and there's so the vast amount of people that do it, right? I mean, so yes, pressure is huge down there.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:50

And having spots like the sanctuary, and there's some other people that make sanctuaries, I think is what will make or break your waterfowl season in Arkansas.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:01

Yeah. Yeah, man. I've you know, I used to be when when Sharp was still on the podcast for um, he got real heavy with life, and uh me and him would have debates. I used about if you asked me about pressure five years ago, I would think it was I'm like, dude, there's no way that that much pressure. You know, I had my my other things that I thought were the big problems, right? Right, yep. But the more I started hunting and guiding in Arkansas, guiding here in Louisiana, and then having my own leases and hunting private, I realized like, hey man, how much pressure does get put on these birds? Yes, and that one I tell everyone water, you won't talk about listening to short shot birds and water. Yep, water where they can find water is gonna be you know, is where those birds are and bird, you know, we don't take account that birds flock to other birds, right? Correct. We're just saying birds get the birds of the same feather flock together, yeah. Um and yeah, dude, I I think down here and then you know, even in areas in Arkansas, the pressure, and what I've been going back to I noticed during the early spec seasons, dude. How many times we the last day where we were like, hey, bud, we're not gonna shoot these specs. We gotta wait for the ducks to get out. Uh and dude, those ducks didn't give, you know, they didn't care. No, they killed their land and they they knew they were gonna get shot. Uh, they knew they you know, they did not care. Yeah, now let me tell you, I I thought about you, you know, these these pintails are real lucky that I'm a changed man. I'm a better person. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:54

I'm struggling.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:59

I'm a change, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:00

Yeah, you're lucky I'm a change, man. So let me tell you six years ago, this would be a different story. Dustin, I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Oh man, but yeah, you realize that's what really got me realizing how much, you know, what how much pressure does affect birds, and when you don't put that pr constant pressure on those birds, they're gonna stick around a while.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:25

I just, you know, I feel like down there it's everybody's got to get theirs, right? And nobody cares about their neighbor, nobody cares about I mean, everybody's gotta get theirs. Yeah, it's very hard in a society where I feel like, and I'm not saying everybody does it, but I'm saying I've been I've done it too. Like, I don't care about I don't care. My goal today is to kill these birds. Like, I I don't, and it's just something that I think everybody needs to work on and start thinking more about the ducks and less about the act of killing the duck.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:58

Yeah, it is hard, right? We put we put when you're doing it for as a as a as a living like yourself, yeah. I guide, but my guide money is it just goes to my what do you call it? Um, my hobby, right? My duck duck hunting pays for duck hunting for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:15

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:15

For you, it pays your bills, it pays your mortgage. So I can see that, and I can see the guys on the flip side that are are are you know that are just doing it as the I think they call weekend warriors, but they're not weekend warriors. Yeah, I mean they're they're they're good hunters, they invest a lot of money and time, right, decoys, a boat, leases. So I can see where they're like, hey, I gotta get mine because I have to justify why I'm spending ten thousand dollars on a lease. 100%. But do you think if you got rid of you know, everyone's in once you get rid of the flooded corn, right? Make it illegal to hunt over it. I'm like, man, that might, you know, for me, I'm like, duh, that might not be the answer.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:59

I think you're still gonna have the same problem, right? Um, then you go to uh okay, it's gonna be a sanctuary, those birds are gonna stay there, we're gonna hunt them on the outline. I get rid of it, keep it. I don't think it's gonna matter. I mean, I I mean, and I think that there's so many politics involved in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:16

Um yeah, yeah, I I tell everyone I don't think this subject uh uh a coin, I don't think it has two sides. I think it's more of a dice that has multiple sides, multiple problems, that has multiple fixes. Uh there's I think political things, I I hate to say, man, I hunt to get away from politics. I honestly I hate politics. Absolutely. I have my views, I've spent my whole life in it in a job that revolves around politics. Right. You know, not that you know, I I wasn't in politics, but the politics affect where I worked at now.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:55

Um I think that there's things that need to happen. Like, I mean, we just seen yesterday posted all over Facebook out our former wildlife fishing game. Um in Louisiana just got busted for corruption. I think, yeah, and then but then now here, you know, we're getting busted for corruption, but I'm pointing the finger at Missouri's the problem. You know, I'm sorry, ugh, but you know how well let's invest in ourselves and you know, we hold ourselves accountable before we start blaming everyone else. Right. And yeah, I just think that you know, if everyone came together, uh hundred percent. And you don't, and it's really it's it's the Mississippi Flyway thing. You don't see it, and maybe you know, I only get to hunt the Pacific Flyway every now and then.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:41

Um you don't see you don't see that over that over on that side, you don't see it in like the Montana side either. Yeah, you you just you have a vast more people in the Mississippi Flyway that hunt waterfowl, and that goes back to that culture thing, yeah. Um, it's a culture down there on the west side. It's really not like, yeah, oh, so and so is going down, but it's like, hey, we're gonna do this as a family, and this is what we do every year. It's just there's so many pound for pound people that hunt Mississippi Flyway than any of these other flyways.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

Yeah, and I I think the culture area that in the Pacific Flyway is really in California, yes, Sacramento Valley Valley, and it more revolves around duck clubs, correct? Yeah, a big club, you know, uh the club culture, right? Yep, 100%. I don't care what that club's really doing. This is my club, my you know, this is my tried over 100 years. I mean, you know, you had duck clubs that have been around since the 1800s, 100%. And I and I I think that's different. I think there's good parts of the duck clubs because everyone's trying to plant and farm and do things that are intuitive for the birds, right? Um, but yeah, man. But uh dude, let's talk about speckle belly nations. You have some pretty good swag coming on.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:55

Yeah, no, got some shirts, got some hats coming out. Um, just something I started, you know, speckle bellies kind of they've got a light, but they don't really have a light, you know. Um, there is some merch, some gear out there uh towards speckle bellies, but you know, it's one of my passions, and it's just something that I've thought about doing, and I just decided to pull the trigger and do it. So yeah, you know, gonna get into uh hopefully uh get into a gear line, jackets, bibs, um, just some more affordable style, same quality, same. I feel like there's a lot of um, you know, quality is going down, you know, those commitments to lifetime warranties going down. And you know, for a guy that does it every day, I if you can't get what you need, make what you need. Yeah. And that's kind of I mean, where I'm at now. Can't get it, tried them all. Now I'm just gonna make what I need.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:48

Yeah, I did I feel that with you, man. Like I thought you know the what piece of gear I hate the most is waiters.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:56

Yes. There, and there's such a I mean, these waiters these days are I mean, you gotta mortgage your car or your house to go buy a pair. I mean, they're ridiculous. And it's just, I mean, there's such a used, there's so many things that can go wrong with waiters, barbed wire fences, uh, sharp edge.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:15

I mean, and it's yeah, a lot of guys um don't think about guys like me, you the hunted pits. Right. Getting in and out, getting in and out of the pit stretches those seams, climbing into the dog box, getting out, yeah, rubbing, rubbing on the on the on the metal pit. You know, a lot of times when you're guiding, I told guys, I sit in the dog box. Right. So I can watch both sides of the blind, I can watch down the blind for safety. It's rib really helps opening doors. I mean, when me and you guided together, um, one of the one of the the you know, while I like to ending our season where we ended that, I liked having the double dog boxes 100.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:57

So, I mean you could both especially when you have two guides on each end. Yeah, because I mean, if you haven't hunted out of a pit before, they can be a pain to hunt out of. Yeah, trying to keep your head out to look to see where the birds are coming, but keep you know, and call. And I'm 6'4, and those pits are not built for six four. I mean, I struggled.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

Yes, I mean, I'm contorted in the bottom trying to look and it was lane in the bottom. Lane farm. Lane farm watching the first time. I can't tell you how many times I said I am never hunting this pit again.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:31

Yeah, we won't be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:32

We'll be here in the morning, but don't worry about it. Um, that's why, like, uh man, uh, what is that one?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:42

Um, the the one that I killed all those ducks at years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:49

Me talking about. Oh, um uh Lick Pond Slew. Lick Pond Slough, yeah. Now that pit, now we that pit was like Nella's Ark.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:01

It was like Nella's Ark. Yeah, and it's just an odd pit. You know, you're elevated above the water level. I mean, it's but for you, it was good. It was great for me, yeah. And it was great the way that it was brushed that you can see and not have to crank your head out. I liked how there was different flaps so I could run my side of the floor down because I had that graph.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:22

That's the only thing I didn't like about it is guiding. You know, if we're buddy hunting out of that one, right? Great. I control my flap, whatever. Right. But when you're guiding with clients, yes. It's like, all right, you know, yeah, bud, you you didn't shoot, you didn't open your flap. I don't tell you, don't know what to tell you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:44

It's it's just a learning process, you know. I had to catch myself many times with clients and be like, Well, you didn't tell us where the birds were. Well, shoot, they were right there, you know, and you just and there's just so many things that go into guiding that you have to watch. Yeah, make sure the doors are open, make sure the dog's steady, make sure I mean, call the shot at the same time, you know. Make sure everybody's being safe at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:08

Um, so and hey, not to use names or anything on this on this podcast, but you know, we have 10 more minutes, but and I do wanna I do want to end on some funny notes. We had a ball blast. Oh, it was a great time. Dude, there are some days where we go back, you know, and Dustin hooked up this year at the guide, the guide lodge. That was uh yeah, that was the nicest guide lodge I've ever been at. Yeah, no big out, and I you know, and I tell everyone why I like guiding something with all y'all, it's like being in sports again in high school. You're around, you know, the guide lodge is like the locker room. We get to hang out, decompress. Um and that's where we can kind of let loose. It's not around clients, you know, you can you can let loose a little bit. What was some of the funny things we've seen with clients this year? Or kind of things like, oh my god, that's some of the sayings people don't say I this year when when I heard the saying, and you know, for the viewers, we have he has an inside joke called Dick and the Dog. Dick and the dog.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:22

What's the meaning of dick and the dog?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:24

I still don't know, but that's the northern thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:27

Dick and the dog, selling the pops.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

Yeah, and I was like, I don't know what you guys are doing in Ohio, but you need to quit if you're bored, find another hobby. Read a book, do something, but that's not a term we I we use in Louisiana, in North Carolina, in California, and I'm gonna say I'm gonna venture.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:50

You don't use that in Montana. No, it's just uh like screwing around, like, what are you doing? Nothing much, dick and the dog, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:00

I think me and Joe finally got to a point we're gonna start a new guide outfit called Dick and the Dog Outfitters.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:07

Oh man, and then um what was it? Another one uh guiding something.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:13

You bet you can't show like pictures of your memes of radio kicking on each other home.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:21

Oh man, it got rough there for a while.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:24

Just like any new job on the charge side or anyone. Yeah, the new guy's gonna get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:31

It was rough.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:32

No, it was all good. It was all good and fun, and you know, everybody there. Uh Dustin's got a pretty good crew that works for him. Um, Cisco, Matt Masters, uh Drew came to help. Yeah, Drew. Just awesome. Forrest Carpenter. Um, not Carpenter, Carvajal. Hockey. Or not Carpenter, shit, Carvajal. I don't know. Um hockey. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:57

Yeah, hockey's a good dude.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:58

Solid hockey's a solid dude. Solid dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:01

Oh man. Yeah, and then you know, as a you know, you know, you're you're a um you're a dog guy. You train living. That's your you know, that's what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:14

That is my fashion.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:15

Yeah, and that is like I would say your number one priority is your dogs and and your dogs. Yeah, guiding, you know, guiding you know how you make the money until dog training comes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:29

Um for my life revolves 24-7, 365 around dogs. Um there's not a point in time that I don't have a dog with me in my truck, in my house. Um, yeah, just kind of my it's my passion, and I never see myself with not doing it. Um, I love it. Um and yeah, any aspect of it. I mean, there should be one hunt. I'm going to Spain here in September to uh photograph a um red stag hunt. Yeah, and that'll be the one hunt I do this year that does not involve a dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:05

So a tip for guys that are going on guided hunts with their dogs. Man, that is from a dog trainer and a guy's point. Give someone a tip. When you me and you this year, we did see some not frustrating things.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:22

Some of it was comical. I just think it gets everybody wants to hunt with their dog, but make sure you do the work before you bring the dog. And I tell this to every one of my clients duck, when it's time to duck hunt is not the time to train your dog. Get that dog in a pit. If you get there a day early and your dog hasn't been in a pit, talk to one of us. Say, hey, I don't know what you're doing this evening, but I'd like to just go get my dog out in a pit and like do the work beforehand. Don't expect dogs to just know what they're gonna do. I had I saw a lot of that. That, oh yeah, we duck hunt all all the time. Um, pits are different. Yeah, dogs are not a one, you do one thing with them. They're gonna, they need to, they gotta, they're just like they need to experience it. And it doesn't have to be you need to have them in a pit for three weeks. Have them in a pit for 10 minutes, in, out, in, out, praise the dog. Um, just make sure you do your work before and don't ever take the criticism when it's offered. Um, it's not meant to be bad, it's just it's meant to help. I there's a lot of guys that I say try this or try that. And they're like, Oh, yeah, it works. I mean, I'm all about giving free dog training advice. Yeah, I think I think that comes a lot with with with owner's ego. Yeah, 100% owner's ego. And yeah, there's times like there's times that like you for a guide's per in as a guide's position, I have the dog. I left the dog in the truck that can do all this work. Yeah, I don't have to worry about, but now my day is longer, harder, more difficult because you didn't want another dog. Or I mean, you know what I mean? It's just I know everybody wants to hunt with their dogs. I mean, I'm the same way. Um just try to take some time and be honest with your guides about your dog's ability. It is nothing, nobody's gonna laugh at you or make fun of you because you say, Yeah, you know, he's only had about four retrieves, or okay, I'm all about well, bring him out, keep him tied, and I'll help you work him. Like I have no problem doing that. What I have a problem with is people like, oh yeah, he's a professional, this, that, and the other thing. And the dog won't be like he's riding the lightning.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:36

Yeah, it's don't ride the lightning. We don't. That is there's another saying. Oh, that was a day.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:50

You won't ride the lightning.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:54

Yeah, I mean, I don't take your frustration out on your dog because your ego gets hard either.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:00

Dogs do not need to ride lightning to understand what's going on. Yeah, but no, biggest thing, just be honest. I mean, about the dog. It's gonna help the dog, it's gonna help you um in the process. And if you hunt with me, I have no problem helping you with the dog. Bring the dog, um, and we'll go through it together. I mean, that's kind of what I do, and I have no problem say giving you some tips, giving you some um, but there's gonna be some times that I say, nope, leave him tied. Let's get this bird, let's wait for an easier bird. Or yeah, hey, we got an extra minute, grab me one of those ducks and let's go do a couple retrieves with your dog. Yeah, or after the hunt, hey, Levi, you know, what do you think I could? You know, I have no problem giving that kind of advice. Yeah, so well, brother, and it's been an awesome episode. What do you got going the rest of the year? Pretty much just work, huh?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:50

Work, a little bit of fishing, and then um come August time frame start time to start getting leases ready.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:58

So nope, we'll have to get together this summer. I pretty much training dogs all summer, got turkey season, got a quite a few guided turkey hunts I gotta do, and then uh HRC, field trials, hunt tests, and then back on the old waterfowl grind.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:14

Man, you need to go out the you need to.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:15

Yeah, just stay tuned. Um, be looking. I'm gonna put, I'll send it over to Joe. Um, these hats we got coming are gonna be pretty sweet. Um, they have not been done before, so it's gonna be pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:27

Well, ladies and gentlemen, hey, thank you for tuning in. Hey, Levi, thanks for being coming on. Thanks for being a guest, man. Yeah, no problem, anytime. And like our friend Chris says, let Valor not fail. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to our next cooking net segment of the Flyway Connections. And we have, as always, Jason Thornton. Hey, Jason, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:03

Good Joe, man. I appreciate you having me back on.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:05

Not a problem. Hey, it's great, it's great to be on Conn. It's great to have you. And but it is great to see some of the stuff you're cooking up. Uh literally on a weekly basis. I'm looking at social media and seeing on your Instagram uh just you know, some of the stuff you have up there from uh some of the some of the breakfast. I'm a big fan of some of your breakfast stuff that you do.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:27

Yeah, I think, dude, my breakfast is kind of my specialty thing, man. I love doing breakfast items. Uh, but you know, there's three meals every day, so I'm not limited though. Oh yeah, like cooking all, you know, and I'm a big fan of eating all three of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:40

Yeah, you know, and you know what which one gets me every time I see them a guy that it's it's a copycat you do of um the the crunch wrap, and you usually do like a breakfast. Oh yeah, yeah. That's a good one. Today is you know, today we're focusing on a dinner, and a dinner that you know both of us kind of like when we both. Talk about quite a bit. Jason, let us know what are we cooking up today?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:07

Well, this last week, I did a uh speckle belly palm uh parmesan, and it's just classic, you know, people have heard chicken palm or veal palm. Uh very, very similar, did exactly the same way. Uh, but I used speckle belly. Um, I had several of them in the freezer. And uh what I did was if you can imagine the breast, I cut the breast in half to where it was thinner, not you know, lengthwise, but if you can imagine like a biscuit where I just topped a biscuit, so I cut it open half that way, and then I used a little meat mallet and I pounded the heck out of it. And I mean, it was probably Joe, like what you would expect the size of a uh a chicken, a chicken palm to be. And I had two of those, uh, obviously, I cut in half. Uh, and I I marinated it, and then uh I put it into um a seasoned flour, an egg wash, and then Italian breadcrumbs in that order, um, coated on each side, and then in a uh cast iron skillet with olive oil. I uh I fried it lightly again because you don't want to overcook it. And it was already very thin to begin with. So it probably took Joe maybe 90 seconds on each side, probably not even that long, uh, probably 60, close to 60, 75 seconds on each side. Until it was a really good golden brown, took it out and drained it. And then uh to finish off the palm, uh, I topped it with a marinara sauce and a um um some uh cheese, some uh fresh motz, uh, and then put it in the oven, let that cheese melt, put it back over another bed of pasta, and then sprinkle it with some um uh some Parmesan and dude, money, money. Um now what you could do, uh you could probably, you know, depending on on your preference, if you don't want to put it over pasta, you don't have to put it over pasta. Uh, and you don't have to put the marinara between the speckle belly and the cheese. Uh, it might stay a little bit crispier that way. The uh some parts of it got a little um a little soggy, but you know, just without that marinara, it is, I mean, money. Uh for presentation purposes, uh, I did use a torch and kind of put a little char on the cheese to make it look better. Uh, I didn't want to overcook it in the oven. Uh again, I got the the breast the way I wanted it. And I knew it was gonna cook a little bit in the oven, but I was very mindful not to uh overcook it. Uh again, you know, we don't ever want to overcook our waterfowl. Uh and just use the torch to uh to finish it off. Money.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:50

I'm looking at it right now. Here's a big question I have when it comes to cooking frying stuff. Do you kind of eyeball the temperature of your um oil or do you put a thermometer in the oil and use an exact temperature?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:08

All right. At home, I use the exact temperature because I have a thermometer at home. Yeah. I'm at the camp right now. I just use the old classic method of you know throwing a little bit of water in the oil and and listening to it and see how it sounds. Yeah. Uh, you know, that's you know, that's probably how the old people did it. They didn't have a digital thermometer like I do at home. Yeah. Um, but in this particular case, I was at home and I wanted the the oil a little bit hotter than normal because I knew it was gonna it was gonna go fast. Uh and I wanted a good crisp on the on the coating. So I probably had the oil at 370 or 375. 370, yeah. Um and again, it was just fast fast. I mean, you know, it's not like you're gonna cook a batch of fish in this thing. I was just cooking two pieces of meat.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:52

Yeah. Yeah, that's always what I sometimes frying stuff, especially frying fish and frying everything, especially when you're fine, like, you know, I got some fish in the freezer and you're using coal, you know, it gets cold. It's almost like every time you're putting uh you know cold meat in the oil, obviously the temperature drops a little bit. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:15

Yeah, and in this case, uh the speckle bellies, I forget to mention this. I had them at room temperature. Room temperature. So they didn't come right out of the fridge. They they were on the counter for probably an hour or so waiting for me to get everything together. No, um, and I did use olive oil. Oh 100% it was olive oil.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:32

Yeah. Do you season your your uh speckle before you put you dredging and all that?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:37

I didn't because I had everything else was seasoned. Uh I had a good seasoned flour. Uh the egg wash obviously was not seasoned, and then the Italian breadcrumbs has that, you know, the Italian seasoning in it. And then uh I like to season all of my fried foods once I'm taking it out of the grease. So once I take it out of the grease, I'll hit it with some um salt, pepper, and granulated garlic.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:58

Yeah. The pasta. Do you have, you know, do you have a uh special go-to brand for the pasta or a special type of pasta you you'd recommend?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:09

Uh in this case, it was just spaghetti noodles. Uh, and I wanted to keep it kind of traditional. Uh I have all kinds of, I have all manner of pasta in my pantry, man. Um, my daughter loves pasta, so we kind of keep a variety on hand for her. Uh, but I just kind of want to keep it a little classic with the classic spaghetti noodles on this one.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:26

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:27

And then garnish it with some basil. I love basil and everything.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:31

Basil with tomato, I don't know what it is, mozzarella. Um, me and the wife, we're big fans of um, you know, they call it margarita pizza.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:40

Yeah, and it's that basil. Yeah, basil olive oil and tomato with some mozzarella. You cannot go wrong with.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:47

Um so this was a super easy dish. Uh, and listen, if you know, if you don't have any speckle bellies, I wouldn't try this with a small duck. If you had a really big duck, you could probably make this work. Um but you could also do this with snow geese or or blue geese or even uh Canada geese, man. I'm telling you, this would be a really good meal because you're you're you're not you're not you're not hiding the the the the flavor of the goose, but it is masked pretty well with the other flavors. Uh because you got some pretty you got some pretty strong flavors in there. Uh, but if you want to do this with snow geese, you probably can do it very well with with you know a trash goose, like a lot of people call it. But I would I would have no problems doing this with a a speckle belly or even a Canada goose.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:33

Yeah, I mean uh it's funny they were talking about trash brothers. I was actually watching um meat eaters and they they were doing taste testing of between uh I think it was a golden common golden eye and a McGanzer.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:47

Yeah, I saw that.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:48

Yeah, they said it wasn't the old taste, you know. I don't know. Um I'm not gonna say I'm gonna try that taste test. I think there's better things I can taste test with.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:00

But when I said trash use a while ago, I did put air quotes around it because I don't believe the trash keys in it.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:05

No, no. Uh this year I I got to uh do some conservation snow goose when we got to kill you know a good amount. And you know what? Yeah, they're not exactly as spec, but I'll tell you, I think they're a little bit, you know, they're just as good as a as a hawker, if not maybe a little bit better. I mean they're eating the same stuff as Speck does. Um, I will say this, I'll for the viewers that you know and everyone that knows, I will say a snow goose is a very athletic bird. Um, usually they don't have as big fat calves as uh the speckle bellies do, but they're you know they're not eating trash, they're not eating uh I think that's kind of a kind of a myth that some of us put on it, but oh man, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:52

I do use a lot of when I have them. I I haven't had a wine in a while, but uh you can grind them too. They they grind very well, and you can do all manner of things once you grind them. You I mean you can make you know an egg roll out of them. I think that that's come up once or twice before you and I. Um anything that you you you grind any type of meat for. Uh now, if you do grind it, uh you definitely want to add some type of fat to it because there's no inner muscular fat at all in these things. I mean, they're they're inside their muscles are super lean. Yeah. Uh so add a little bit of fat and do you know the the the world is open to you for all manner of things. And then you can you can add like breakfast sausage seasoning to it and make a you know, a breakfast patty out of it or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:36

You know, I mean, speaking of egg rolls, I mean, we you know, we tried your egg rolls in February up in Arkansas, which I'm hoping that's kind of where that spec came from on that trip that we had. Uh but yeah, those, I mean, those egg rolls weren't hit. I mean, uh yeah. So I mean, and I would have never thought to be ducked egg rolls before, before you know, before that day, or I know we've had the conversation with it. We've had I'm pretty sure we had them on the podcast, but did you know the trial was like, you know what? Those, you know, yeah, just that that not super gamey meat, but you know, it has you know that you got that good fatty medium rare flavor with a crunchy outside with a little bit of cabbage and carrot. I mean, there's so much you can do with wild game that you know that the world's the world's the cookbook, and um, you know, for everyone that goes on, go follow Jason because you know, I'm looking at right now. Uh now I'm actually looking at breakfast tacos right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:40

Okay. So that was the uh again, ground uh duck meat. That was um um uh duck chorizo. Yeah. Oh man, that's that may be my favorite way to do duck, man. I'm telling you. I oh, I love it with a passion. Yeah, I haven't done super simple.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:59

Super simple. I've done uh not snow goose chorizo, I've done the um uh Canada goose. We got we shot some Canada geese a while back ago in uh Nebraska, and um we made some uh I ground some up and made some chorizo out of it. But I mean, geez, the world's the you know, the world's the limit when it comes to this stuff. And you know, ladies and gentlemen, go give him a look uh at a little outdoors cook uh on Instagram, on Facebook, on his webpage. Um man, go check him out on Mississippi Outdoorsman and Louisiana Outdoorsman. Yeah, Louisiana Sportsman. Sportsman, sportsman, sportsman. Yeah, uh I mean, bud, when you get you your own TV show. Find somebody that knows how to work a camera. Yeah, well, it ain't this guy. I'm horrible with a camera. But like always, Jason, thank you for coming on. And for the viewers, go try this out. You know, God willing, you guys have a freezer full of speck or geese or ducks or can of geese, and you know, give us a whirl. So, like our buddy Chris always says, let Valorant failure.