Positively Midlife Podcast

Re-Creating a Career in Midlife that combines mental and physical health

January 15, 2023 Season 2 Episode 3
Positively Midlife Podcast
Re-Creating a Career in Midlife that combines mental and physical health
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Is it possible to reinvent your career after divorce in a career that you LOVE?  It is.  Ellen and Tish talk to Lois Spence about how she expanded her career to encompass both her love of training and her desire to help people through counseling.   Lois shares her greatest fears, her support system, and her biggest triumphs in this week's podcast.

Things we talked about in this episode: Trinity College, all women's college, olive oil, marula oil, bodybuilding,  fitness training, divorce, Walk and Talk therapy.

Obsessions:
Tish:  Olive oil measurer
Ellen: The Ordinary Marula oil

Spread the word about the podcast and give us a review... Click here.

Want to start podcasting?  Click here to let Buzzsprout know we sent you, this gets you a $20 Amazon gift card if you sign up for a paid plan, and help support our show

Smells Like Humans
Like listening to funny friends discuss curious human behavior.

Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify

Tish Woods:

Ellen Today we've invited one of our Trinity tribe, to share her amazing story of reimagining her life after divorce. So our special guest today is Lois Spence and Lois had spent 15 years and a very successful career that she absolutely adored as a personal trainer. But when she was faced with the changes that would be coming after a pending divorce. Well, Lois wanted to find a career where she could better support herself as a single woman. And I can't wait for Lois to share her journey, because she was able to create this future that combined her love of fitness with her love of helping people.

Ellen Gustafson:

Wow, already, I know this is going to be a great story. And, you know, I love women reinventing themselves, especially post divorce. Right? And these are real women that are facing huge challenges and, and really hitting midlife head on. So creating a post divorce life is something you and I have both experienced Tish. And we know it has not always been easy to navigate. As we went through our divorces, and even on on the other side of it. So I know our listeners are going to be really inspired about how Lois took charge of her life, her career, her financial well being and really moved forward in a career she loves. So, before we get to that, though, you know, I love this part of our podcast every week, it is our obsessions. What do you got for me Tish.

Tish Woods:

Okay, so, you know, I've spent a long time downsizing a lot of the stuff in my house and my kitchen and whatnot. And so, what I have found is sometimes I downsize too much. And, and I was because I used to cook a lot, I used to have tons of measuring cups and measuring devices all over. And then I realized I'm down to one because, you know, I'm, you know, I have to scale down, you know, but so then when I go to do any type of cooking that involves oil, it's a mess, like then I'm gonna try to clean out the cups and stuff before I move on to putting the dry ingredients, it's just a mess. So I found this cool little kitchen gadget if you want to call it that is actually a dispenser to hold your oil. But on top of that, on the very top part of it, it has a measuring cup, so you squeeze out exactly what you need. So you can just pour it in. So you never have to use your regular and mix and match when you're you know measuring for your recipes and stuff like that. And it looks nice and put together so you can see your oil and you can even use it for other things like soy sauces and all that type of stuff. Anything that you frequently use. It's a liquid but I love how the measuring cups right there for you.

Ellen Gustafson:

Wow, that's really amazing.

Tish Woods:

I have to say make me happy.

Ellen Gustafson:

I know it's little things and I do have a fear of downsizing too much right like I should have never given that mixing bowl away somehow with the kitchen it seems stronger for me there than any other place in the house. But I think we can put a link to that it looks sounds very cool.

Tish Woods:

Right? And it's really inexpensive and I think it just makes everything just kind of look nice in your kitchen and you can have your oil out without it being in a big huge, you know container. But what about you Ellen, what is your obsession this week?

Ellen Gustafson:

Well, my obsession is something called Marula oil. So it's kind of the same but mine is not for cooking is by a company called the ordinary and it's 100% Organic Marula oil. And I think everyone knows I'm a cancer survivor and of course in midlife, I am so dry. My skin is dry. My hair is dry, my nails are dry. You can put this everywhere. This roller oil anywhere and again inexpensive, and it comes in a nice glass bottle but I never would have thought this in my 20s and 30s. But I put it on my face every night.

Tish Woods:

Oh wow. So it doesn't leave you like slick and greasy. It absorbs really well.

Ellen Gustafson:

Yeah. Has lots of antioxidants. So Marula oil, everybody.

Tish Woods:

Okay, well, we have to have a link for that one. No. Okay. So I want to go back to introducing our special guest today. Lois Spence. Now, Lois is a fellow alumnus of Trinity college. And she actually graduated a year after Ellen and I did and Lewis currently has her own private practice. As a psychotherapist, and is also a certified personal trainer. She has crafted this career for herself that combines her love of fitness and physical health, with a therapy practice and mental health. And Lois resides in beautiful Issaquah. Washington. I mean, that part of the country is just breathtaking. And well welcome, Lois. We are so excited to have you with us today.

Lois Spence:

Oh, you guys, I'm so happy to be here. And as we were saying earlier, three Trinity women together. This is this is awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Tish Woods:

Yeah, there's something about the power of going to an all women's college we were just talking about this before we started recording. That is amazing, because we have this incredible supportive, encouraging environment that we grew up in and and Lois weren't you saying how you didn't realize how unique it was? Until until we hit this part of our lives?

Lois Spence:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Ellen Gustafson:

Well, Lois, as we said, so great to have you here today. And I want to jump right into your story. I'd like to bring our listeners back to that time after you graduate from graduated from Trinity. You were working in DC as a recruiter for a few years before getting married. You had three children now all adults, and you ended up moving out to the Pacific Northwest in 2005. And you were all living like a really active outdoor life and raising a family. So what type of what type of work were you doing then when you first got to the Pacific Northwest.

Lois Spence:

So we moved to the BMW 2005. My husband at the time was working for T Mobile or we moved out for his job with T Mobile. And I had been at home with the kids for 10 years at the time. So our youngest was 10 Lexie and then we had an eight year old and a five year old Spence and Luke, actually not five, four. And just before we had moved, I had gone back to school school to get my personal trainer certification. I was active very into working out when I was at Trinity I road crew. And I just thought, you know, this would be a really great career to have while I have kids at home, because I can work around their school hours and have a relatively flexible schedule. So when we moved, I had that trainer certification in hand, we, we got the move, we moved, and then I spent the next year kind of getting us settled into our new life. And then once the kids were settled, I opened up my own business, it was called to the Edge Fitness. And I started seeing personal training clients out of my home, I had a nice extra room that I used as a gym, and my work hours were the kids school hours. So that was no real, you know, intrusion to my family life. And I just loved it and I was making some money, which was nice to have some of my own money since I hadn't worked for 10 years. And then I kind of expanded on that and started teaching some group fitness classes at 24 Hour Fitness, and then eventually moved down there to see training clients there and I ran some boot camps and yeah, so that's how it all started.

Tish Woods:

So Lois as a personal trainer, especially in the bodybuilding world, you really learned how to push clients like kinda like, really hard to reach their goals. And during these intense workouts, did you ever notice that it would open doors for people to get in touch with their deep emotions and feelings like that pushing them physically opened up them emotionally?

Lois Spence:

Oh, gosh, yeah, absolutely. And I it's funny, because I'll tell you a quick story. I had this one client. And he was a guy. And I remember starting to work with him. And he said to me, I bet your clients tell you a lot of stuff, don't they? And I said, they do. They share. They share a lot of personal things. And he was like, yeah, that's and that's not going to be me. I'm not going to them enough to come out of me. And then one day I'd had him in a wall set. And he said, Oh, here it comes. And he just started talking and talking and talking. And that was just emblematic, emblematic of what would happen to clients, you put them in kind of a under a little bit of physical duress. And not that I was even harsh at all. I was very encouraged. Supporting, but when they're under that kind of duress, I do think there is. It's like, the lid pops off, like there's no filter, and all of these emotions start to arise. And I think in that moment, being in that kind of intimate space, one on one with somebody, they feel safe, they feel like they can share. And so it just kind of naturally happens as you're working with clients. And it was across all demographics, male, female, old, young. All of them just would share things. And sometimes people would say, I've never told anybody that. And honestly, it was truly an honor to to be witness to, you know, hold space for these people and be witness to some of these things that were shared with me. While also kind of walking with them on their fitness journey.

Ellen Gustafson:

I mean, I think that's amazing that people were just opening up to you so much at that time. But did you really realize that kind of the connection between the physical activity and mental health at that time or did that come later, Lois.

Lois Spence:

So I think I mean, I definitely had an inkling of that, as I started this career. And as I was kind of evolving, in my own fitness journey, I had started doing some bodybuilding competitions. And the connection to my own mental health was so very, very, very clear to me. And I really, at the time, felt like when I would go for a run, or when I would go and lift weights, I always felt just tremendously, so much better after. And this is, you know, through raising kids and dealing with all the issues that comes with that. It really, for me, provided massive support. And so I knew just from my own personal experience, that there was definitely a direct connection to the impact that physical fitness and just movement in general, has on one's mental health.

Tish Woods:

So Lois, you know, we were talking earlier about the process of getting divorced. And, you know, while that can be such a scary time for women, especially women that have children, it can be could present itself with a lot bigger challenges. Well, while going through your divorce, you know, we need to reevaluate like, our lives in so many different aspects, right, especially when it comes to our careers. So we need to know that we can support ourselves and our children on single income that is like, that is such a scary trigger for so many women. And we also need to make sure that this career changes are anything that we want to do fits into our family structure. You know, so in you were saying earlier, that you had the advantage of working your schedule, when you just did the physical fitness training around your kids schedule, but now things were going to change. So how did you? How did you come to realize what the next steps were going to be for you? So you knew that you needed to increase your income? And how did you pick that next career for yourself?

Lois Spence:

Yeah, that's, that's a good question. And, you know, like any decision like that is such an evolution, right. And I definitely through working as a personal trainer, and really noticing the aspect of training that was that put me in a role to be emotionally supportive. And I really enjoyed that part of the work. And I had thought times before I had thought therapy, it would have been could have been a career that I would have been interested in. And at the point of, you know, knowing that we were going to get divorced and wanting to make one income, looking towards my future to eventually retiring, I thought, well, you know, I could explore being a therapist as an option. And what does that take? And it just so happened that one of my very good friends her name's Cortney. Single mom of three very young kids at the time was also in school to be a therapist, so I was able to gather a lot of information from her. I did my own research, I looked at some different programs in Seattle, some in person programs, and then I also checked out some online programs. And I landed on an online program with Capella University, and I took out student loans and I was like, here we go, I just jumped in and thought, Well, I'm gonna give this a whirl. Let's, let's see what happens here. And that was it, I just went for it.

Ellen Gustafson:

I love that we're all about jumping in Tish and I totally about jumping in. And I like how you did a lot of research to see what really fit with you. Did you have any fears, though at at all about it.

Lois Spence:

Um, I was terrified. I mean, here I was 51 going back to school. So 30 years, I hadn't been in school for 30 years, I knew I was going to need to continue to work full time. And at the time, I was working very early hours. So I was up at 430 in the morning, getting to the gym by 530 to start with clients. Um, so I was concerned about mean, there were different levels of concern, I was concerned about going back to school, I was concerned I wasn't smart enough. I was concerned I wouldn't have enough time. I was concerned it was just going to be really hard. And quite honestly, when I talked about going back to school, so many people said, Oh, my God, I could never do that. Right. And, and I had a lot of my own self limiting thoughts that I really had to look at. And, you know, second guess, and yes, I felt massive fear. And that was when I thought okay, I feel a lot of fear. And so what is my fear telling me my fear is telling me that me, you know, maybe this is a really expansive moment. And maybe this is where I jump in with two feet. I'm fearful. If it doesn't go as planned, I can turn back, this isn't necessarily a permanent commitment. So yeah, I was, I was very afraid. But I also had a ton of support. Amazing friends that just lifted me up. That encouraged me, and I dipped my toe in. And I'll never forget that first week of being a new student at 51. And not knowing how to format a document not knowing how to, you know, navigate the whole internal system at the university and having a friend's high school student come over to help me because that stuff though I was stumped on. Then once I got over that I there was this weird thing that happened to my brain where I had like, my brain seemed to grow. And I was able to access information on words that were very deep in the recesses of my brain. And that was fascinating seeing seeing how my brain really adapted to working and doing the schoolwork. And I actually, I don't know whether I'm a glutton for punishment, but I actually really enjoyed the academic portion of it. It was hard, but I really enjoyed it.

Tish Woods:

Do you remember that first moment of I think I can do this?

Lois Spence:

Yeah, I do. It was Yeah, I do. That's such a good question. I do remember that. Because it was after my friend's daughter came to help me literally formatted paper. I mean, I think I was trying to go from like spacing, one and a half to two or some something like that. And she taught me how to do it. And then I think I had to talk for a few more times just to go through it again. And but I got it. And I was like, okay, I can I can do this. And if that was just one little thing. But that was new, right? New for me. And I thought if I can get that I can get the next new thing and the next new thing and the next new thing. And that's all it is, right. It's just one new thing after another.

Tish Woods:

I love how you built on those small successes and that kind of motivated you and kept you going. Now, yeah, you graduated from a four year school until you had a four year degree. What type of additional I mean, how much more schooling did you need to to do this psychotherapy degree.

Lois Spence:

So in order to be a psychotherapist, you need to get a master's so I got a master's in mental health counseling. And the program that I did was three and a half years. I did it in four because I took two summers off. So three and a half years full time and working full time also the last year For my program was an internship. Yes, I was an intern at 54 55. So the last year was an internship in community mental health, where I had a caseload of about 20. Clients pretty high need clients who had suffered a lot of trauma. And then at the end of that internship, once you complete all of those hours, then you are awarded your degree. So I have a master's in clinical mental health counseling.

Ellen Gustafson:

Wow, that you,

Tish Woods:

you do full time. And it's always four years,

Lois Spence:

yes, four years, but the two quarters off one. One summer, I bought a house and I had to move. And then another summer, I had a back issue that kept me from sitting and doing papers, actually. So I took that quarter off to

Ellen Gustafson:

Lois, you know, you have three kids, I know they were older during this period of time. But how did you really make the whole family dynamic function during that lengthy, lengthy school and internship process?

Lois Spence:

I mean, I feel like honestly, it was a good stage for me to do this, you know how they say, as women, you can't have it all. I mean, none of us can have it, all right, but you can have it all, but you just can't have it all at the same time, it's really hard to raise the school work. And so I feel like I did it in stages. So when I went back to school, we just had Luke, who's almost 22, we just had him left at home, he was in high school. And my ex husband and I shared custody. And so he went back and forth. So there were times where I didn't have any kids at home, he had his license, so he was driving. So I didn't have those heavy, heavy family responsibilities that I had had earlier. So I did have more time to focus on school, but I did have to say no to so many things. You know, my weekends were spent studying and doing papers, and my evenings were spent studying and doing papers. So while the family, the family piece was not as intrusive as it would have, if I had done it, say five or 10 years earlier. Makes sense.

Tish Woods:

So I really want to talk a little bit about, you know, we all know that physical activity makes us feel so much better. Okay? And, but there really is a much stronger connection between physical activity and mental health than just some pheromones going on. So when did you really start putting together your earlier experiences during those training sessions? And what you were doing with your psychotherapy, and and how some of those techniques could maybe enhance your own practice?

Lois Spence:

Yeah, so it kind of became became a bit of a running joke with my training clients, I had so many training clients that would say, you know, I've come from my therapy session when they were coming to training, and they would tell me, you're my therapist. And I really saw very early on in my career as a trainer that those emotional breakdowns were relatively, relatively common. And they really were in direct correlation to the level of commitment that the client had, I mean, you if you have a client that comes in, that's just kind of phoning it in, they're not going to reach their goals, but they're also not going going to get there emotionally and mentally. They're not going to have that mental test. If they, you know, if they're not 100% in so I really found that as clients were increasing their level of movement, not just with me, but outside of me and in their, in their daily lives, and becoming way better attuned to their bodies. And this is a this is kind of a big piece that I discovered is you know, as adults, we've kind of lost connection to how our bodies feel. And like when you feel anxious, you know, your chest is tight, your stomach might hurt. But some people might look at that and say, Well, my stomach hurts whatever, but people who are going to be more physical and exercising, they may have a much clearer understanding of what is going on emotionally and how their body is responding physically. So that was another thing that really stood out to me and just, you know, the the improvement in, in the quality of their lives was just just massive. So I just knew that these things that were happening within the confines of these training sessions were so applicable to my therapy sessions, and how was I actually going to incorporate that?

Ellen Gustafson:

So as you started your therapy practice Lois, did you already know that was going to be your particular focus? Or was that something you you kind of honed as you got into your therapy practice? And is it still are you dealing with any different kinds of clients at this point?

Lois Spence:

Yeah, so I knew from the outset, I knew from when I started my masters that you know, my end goal, and not knowing when that end would be, but my kind of end goal focus was developing some kind of a therapy fitness hybrid model. And I have incorporated it into my practice. Now my therapy practice, about half of my caseload is adolescent girls. And the rest of my caseload is kind of a cross section mainly women. But I'm really drawn to working with adolescent girls and women. I'm passionate about helping young girls find their independence and power. And a lot of that power comes from the exercise portion of that. So the flip side of that, though, with these girls is also working with moms. So supporting moms as they raised their daughters, because it's a rough road, right for daughters, and their moms. And so supporting them both, having kind of both sides of the coin is really important. But with these girls, a lot of them are really interested in weightlifting. And that's my go to for excerise. weightlifting, so I might have a girl could like I had a girl last week who really wanted to increase her, her benchpress. So we're working on her, you know, a new PR for her benchpress. So the first 20 minutes will go down into my gym will work on her benchpress. But during that piece of the workout, there's a little bit of therapy that happens. But I'm trying not to be too heavy handed just because I want them to really focus on the physical aspect of it. But I will kind of check in with them when we start lifting and say, hey, you know what's going on? What's your brain telling you? How are you feeling, some of them will say they're not strong enough. I feel like, we feel like it's not gonna happen today. So we kind of talked through talk through the process. So we'll do a brief lift, and then come upstairs into my kitchen, because I'm working out of home, get them a snack, a drink, come up to my study, and finish the session up in my study.

Ellen Gustafson:

What an amazing, amazing set of different ways you are engaging in helping with these young girls, in

Tish Woods:

working with young girls, especially in our very visual world, packed with tons of social media. You know, there's a lot of life changes that that happen when you're on a physical journey. And you know, I've been on my own personal journey, and a lot of people will say to me, oh, my gosh, you look so good. You look so good. And my response is usually, but my goal is to feel healthier, you know, I kind of redirect kind of the conversation away from the physical look to the the health aspects, because that's really where you know, my focus and drive has been, how do you use your therapy sessions to balance that fitness, mental health and body image that's becoming really prevalent with a lot of people?

Lois Spence:

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think it's great when people ask you Tish about your weight loss, or tell you how good you look that you kind of shift the focus to how you're actually feeling. One of the things that I work on with my adolescent girl clients is really kind of honing in on what their core values are. And I think with so much input, there's so much coming at them right from social media, it's really important to focus physically on how they feel in their body, and that's why weightlifting in particular is so positive because it is so measurable and they can really work on their strength. So we focus on that. The other thing we talk about is social media and curating their feed. So they are really careful about what they are kind of letting into their brain space, really looking at who they're following, and is this messaging in line with their core values. So yeah, it's hard because they, they get such strong, strong, strong messages from everywhere else. So I'm just one voice in their journey, but I just really hope to be a strong enough voice that I can make some difference for them when it comes to their their self image.

Ellen Gustafson:

I think that's amazing, inherent mid life, Lois, we also get a lot of messages up from social media and from other places that are also about how we look or how we should look whether our hair is gray, you know, whether we have wrinkles, what our bodies look like. And as Tish said, she and I have both been on our individual health and wellness journeys. And because I live in California, I'm able to be outside a lot more than a lot of people in other parts of the country. And I love walking or hiking. And I know that you have built some of this into your practice, maybe you can share that with us. Yeah, I

Lois Spence:

have. And you know, our climate here, this time of year is not great. It's raining and, and gray. But you know, it's all about the gear, right? If you have the right gear, you can still get outside. I one of my services is walk talk therapy. And what we do is meet at a local trail, and there happens to be one right by my house. So it's very convenient. And we walk and talk and we get into the woods and we get grounded in nature. And especially with younger clients. It's a very, I guess I would call it a very equalizing moment, we're not in an office sitting across from, from someone who's much older than you, there's, you know, there's a kind of a removal of the power dynamic. So it just creates more fluid conversation. And, you know, people are getting in their steps. So it's efficient. And it's just wonderful to be outside, especially with all the great outdoor opportunities we have here in the Pacific Northwest.

Tish Woods:

You know, I know there are some therapists out there that are doing work in this kind of focus with using the physical activity with the mental health. But I think as a whole, wouldn't you agree that the industry really hasn't embrace that concept of using the two pieces together? Why do you think that is?

Lois Spence:

Yeah, I absolutely. Tish, and I, you know, I'm equally surprised, well, maybe not surprised. But, you know, there are so many different certifications. Now you can get as a therapist, there's so many specialties you can get, you can be certified as a play therapist, a dance therapist, a yoga therapist, so it is expanding into different areas. I think one of the reasons why I do is a little bit different, is there aren't necessarily certainly a lot of certified trainers, who are also licensed therapists. So I feel like I'm kind of developing something that is different. But what I'm trying to do is to connect with other like minded therapists, in fact, I have a zoom call with two therapists this week that are both personal trainers themselves. And we just are going to toss around some ideas for how we can, you know, really make this an organized structured modality.

Ellen Gustafson:

I think I can love to know Lois in your practice and with your knowledge as certified, you know, they're therapists, but also trainer, or there's some kinds of exercise that are better for mental health. And is there a correlation between like really sweating and heavy intensity exercise? Or is everything good? Anything you do?

Lois Spence:

I mean, I'm a true believer in whatever you want to do. Whatever you love to do, if it's movement, all movement is good movement. Whatever you can do that is sustainable. You know, if you're going to go gung ho go to the gym, you know, you're one weekend and you're injured, that that doesn't really work that's not sustainable. So whatever it is that you enjoy, and I think that that is one piece that we forget sometimes that movement is supposed to bring you joy when we were 5, 6, 7. We were, you know, we didn't walk around right and ran around, we ran everywhere we played with our friends, and we're still those people, we've just forgotten how to do that. So like Tish, for you pickleball. I mean, that's an amazing exercise. So whatever, whatever it is, that gets you moving is positive. And I do try to meet my clients where they are. So if they want to do some yoga poses, or they want to stretch, or they want to walk, whatever is going to work best for them is what's going to work best for me.

Tish Woods:

So what do you think is, has been for you? The hardest part of your journey from that time when you were going through the divorce to today? And if you could look back and give divorcing Lois, a piece of advice, what would that be?

Lois Spence:

Don't be scared, don't be scared, keep stepping forward. I used to say to my I say to myself, this time next year, this time, next year, this time next year, because you know, you both know, divorce is really hard. It's all very, very hard time. And I just knew things would be better. And I was scared. I mean, there's so many emotions. But as I said before, that fear and that unknown, it does provide incredible growth opportunity. And so I would say, just jump in, don't be afraid, look for the growth opportunities, find your people, be careful, find the right people, surround yourself with people that are going to lift you up, because you're going to need it and lean in like it's okay to lean in. Because you will the tables will be turned and you will have to do the same for somebody else. That was for me a time where the power of women supporting women was just massive, and without, you know, a tribe of women behind me, it would have been much harder. The other thing I would say is, if you have a question, and you can't answer it, somebody has the answer. You know, be resourceful. There are resources out there. And you know, worse comes to worse get on YouTube there is there's videos, right? To install a thing or a faucet that YouTube has everything. So I think those would be my advice.

Ellen Gustafson:

You know, Lois, I feel like I too, can do anything after looking at a YouTube video. So I mean, who, you know, what, what couldn't we do practically brain surgery here at this point with a YouTube video. But I really loved hearing that women supported you throughout this journey. And, you know, Tish and I talk to so many women, and we talk about women all of the time here on on our podcast, but the tribe the the idea of having a tribe, I think is is so unique to us gals in a way. And I hear it time and time again, that it is the reason for a lot of our success.

Lois Spence:

Absolutely, yeah, without a doubt.

Tish Woods:

And I like what you were saying too, is, you know, that lean in that concept of leaning in, depending on other people because the table is going to turn and you're going to have to be the support. And you know, we've said so many times before we are stronger together. And I think that is so true women coming together can do absolutely anything we can move mountains, for sure.

Lois Spence:

Absolutely. I think one of the big things during that time with my tribe of women is was allowing myself to be vulnerable. It was a scary place to be. But just allowing myself to be vulnerable and the amount of sharing that kind of came back to me because I had put myself in that position. And now being able to support other women through that is just, it's just an honor.

Ellen Gustafson:

Amazing, most thank you so much for joining us today. And Tish, I so appreciate Of course having a fellow Trinity woman here with us and learning about your practice and how you really were able to combine two things that you love into a career here for your midlife. It's amazing. So thank you for joining us. Thank you. I

Tish Woods:

have one quick other thing, Lois. If somebody were to look for a therapist that kind of focuses on this physical stuff, is there other resources for that? Or not really yet?

Lois Spence:

No. No. I mean, you know, there's always Google but there, and I have done my own own searching so that I had other practitioners to talk to. Quite honestly, I found one in Michigan and one in Wisconsin. And that's it. I'm sure there are more and I'm sure there will be more coming down the road. But as of now, I there's not much out there.

Tish Woods:

Well, hopefully some therapists hear this and maybe we'll consider incorporating it. Again, thank you so much for being with us today. This has been so inspirational. We're going to share some photos of you and your top competitive form, which is amazing. You have to be to me, You are the most in fit woman that I personally know. You really are. And when I was going through my journey, it it absolutely floored me when you reached out with these words of encouragement, I can't tell you what that meant to me that day. That really was like, Okay, I'm doing this. I'm doing this. So thank you. Thank you for that moment.

Lois Spence:

You're welcome.

Ellen Gustafson:

All right, guys, the podcast drops every Wednesday. And we would love for you to give us a review. Wherever you have your get your podcast content, and follow us on social media. So see you next time mid lifers

(Cont.) Re-Creating a Career in Midlife that combines mental and physical health