Dive into Technology: AI and Chat GPT - Ep 48

Do you know what AI is? Have you tried Chat GPT?   News around Chat gpt is everywhere these days –and everyone is talking about AI.  Technology is moving at a rapid pace, and it's important to understand and keep up with technology trends in midlife!

This week Ellen & Tish talk with strategic writer and technology expert Pookie Foster about AI and Chat gpt technologies.   She shares how we are already using AI in our daily lives, what's controversial about it, and where and how we will use it in the future.   Let’s face it, AI is here and we need to lean into understanding it in midlife, how it’s being used, and what the future holds.

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What we talk about in this episode: chatbots, Hardfork podcast, Kevin Roose and Casey Newton, Deep fake Drake, Kara Swisher, Amazon, Wayz, Netflix, New York Times, special toilets, ChatGPT, Open AI, AI, Elon Musk, menu planning for one, college admissions and AI. 

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Transcript

Ellen Gustafson: 0:21

So let's dig in to AI and chat GPT specifically, and how we can better understand it, why there's controversy and mania around to this right, and how we can leverage it. So we're going to welcome our guest Pookie Foster to the podcast. Pookie is a strategic writer for tech executives, entrepreneurs and product teams.

Tish Woods: 0:47

Welcome to the podcast. Pookie. It's so great to have you with us today. And you know, can you share with our listeners a little bit about yourself and the kind of work

Pookie Foster: 0:56

Sure, as a strategic writer, I bill myself that you do? as a former executive writing for other executives, now I help them establish their brand and promote their thought leadership. So I've worked with over 500 companies in Silicon Valley and New York and around the world, and have had an opportunity to learn from so many people.

Ellen Gustafson: 1:19

Wow, 500 companies. So I understand you work in specifically with an executive who is an AI expert. And so I know you're familiar with this topic from many, many different standpoints. So let's start it out for our listeners, and talk about, you know, just a definition of artificial intelligence. What makes it something more than just a computer?

Pookie Foster: 1:47

Well, even experts don't agree exactly on what AI is and what it isn't. But in general terms, it's a software based analytic system that's capable of performing tasks that would normally require human intelligence, such as making recommendations, formulating answers in both simple or complex ways. And processing languages and recognizing images. So that's a pretty pretty broad, but basic definition.

Tish Woods: 2:16

You know Pookie, we mentioned already that, you know, AI is in so many parts of our lives already. Can you give our listeners some examples of how they're already using AI and some of them might not even realize it?

Pookie Foster: 2:30

Sure, I was thinking about some of what I think of as the the OG applications of AI, and certainly, personal assistants. So I remember when Siri and Alexa and Google Assistant burst on the scene. They were revolutionary. And they use natural language processing and machine learning to understand and respond to commands or requests. Certainly social media is use of AI has gotten a lot of attention. Social media platforms like Facebook, the algorithm algorithms that they use to present information to you. And certainly Instagram ads always seem to know exactly what I want to buy. Andto my chagrin, so Instagrams use of algorithms to process what you what you look at, and try to figure out what you might want had been very effective.

Tish Woods: 3:24

No, it's funny with those particular things, you know, with the shopping stuff, it freaks some people out, you know, like how it's listening to me, I go, it saves me from looking for it.

Pookie Foster: 3:38

Online shopping, Amazon was a was in definitely an early adopter with a recommendation engine. So using AI to recommend products based on your browsing and purchasing, as well as to optimize pricing and delivery. Then a couple of other things navigation, such as Google Maps, and Waze and certainly facial recognition also burst on the scene a few years ago, and that was a big source of bias in AI, it became very apparent, because the thing about AI is that it's its bias or lack thereof, is predicated by the data it's trained on. So if you use a training set to recognize faces that's overwhelmingly of one race or one gender than others can be vastly miscategorized. So that that was one of the first first very visible cases that AI got a bad rap.

Tish Woods: 4:36

Interesting, I didn't even realize that that that happened.

Ellen Gustafson: 4:40

Yeah, well, I was gonna say I thought Terminator was the first bad rap around AI.

Pookie Foster: 4:47

Because that's one of the most popular movies of all time. So that can't be a bad rap. That's a good

Tish Woods: 4:53

I think I think that's where some of the fear comes from, like, I think in a takeover, they're going to take over, but I don't know how I would get through the city. I don't know how we go into Charlotte and look for places I've never been without my ways. So um, you know, I love I embrace all these different ways of using it. So, we've, you've shared some, you know, Many examples of how we're currently using it. But what are the industries that are really relying on the use of AI right now?

Pookie Foster: 5:26

Well, that is pretty much every industry. And I have just a few examples that illustrate the the myriad applications and how broad AI is reaches. So for example, there is an AI program that is used in harvesting vegetables that will sort through them and determine which are ripe and which are not. So it can automatically sort them when they are sucked up into whatever machinery is doing the picking. Certainly, medical has gotten a lot of attention for its use of AI. So for example, at Tulane University's University, researchers discovered that AI can accurately detect and diagnose colorectal cancer by analyzing tissue scans as well or better than pathologists. And certainly Tesla and Elon Musk have really put AI on the map, no pun intended with their autonomous driving. So I was looking on Tesla's website, and it says a full build of autopilot neural networks involves 48 networks that take 70,000 GPU hours to train. Together, they output 1000 distinct tensors predictions at each time step. So every time your car is is making a move, there's 1000 predictions that are going into that. So that's a very, that's a pretty application.

Tish Woods: 6:55

Do you have any idea what kind of data there is around accident prevention with the use of the automated driving?

Pookie Foster: 7:04

I anecdotally I do. I have a Tesla. And there was an occasion where I didn't look at the big screen to see what was around me. And I thought it was clear to move into a lane. And I got a beep, beep, beep and literally my steering wheel turned and I was moved back to my lane. So that was accident prevention. Yeah, wow. I don't use I don't use autopilot. I like to drive, I don't feel comfortable with it. It's also a $10,000 software option. So it's, it's just not for me, I'd like to drive too much. But I have a friend in LA who uses it all the time. And he said he could not survive driving in LA without autopilot.

Ellen Gustafson: 7:50

Isn't it? Right? Can you share with us a little bit about the legal industry too? I know that you do quite a bit of work there. How are they using AI?

Pookie Foster: 8:02

Well, there is a lot of activity around ediscovery. So when when lawsuits happen and and discovery documents are produced increasingly the the practices to do a massive data dump at the very last minute to try to throw off your competitor. So and there's lots more data that has been collected in this, it used to be just emails or paper documents, and now it's slack messages, text messages, emojis. So AI driven ediscovery software is really integral in analyzing all this data quickly producing heat maps of what what the most valuable evidence could be and guiding users to find really, the the needles in enormous haystacks that can make a difference.

Tish Woods: 9:01

Incredible. And it's so new. You know, you were you were talking about the medical uses. And you know, I had been back in October to a TEDx talk. And three of the talks that were that day, had to do with uses of AI. And the one girl was talking about the smart toilets, like you can get a smart toilet at your house that can analyze your urine and stool from your toilet to tell you if you're sick to tell you if certain levels are off. And they said it's a huge predictor right now. So it's even those medical advances are even coming into the home.

Ellen Gustafson: 9:43

I'd take one of those. Did you know that I would? I'm not sure where you would get one of them. Yeah, I'm not sure they're in normal, you know, available for people yet, right?

Tish Woods: 9:57

No, they actually are there. They are available. They're quite expensive. I think they were in the six $7,000 range. But you can actually already get some of those now.

Ellen Gustafson: 10:08

It's amazing. Well,Tish, I know you told us the story, too, about the photographer that you heard about using AI at the same TED Talk, which was an interesting story as well.

Tish Woods: 10:18

Oh, yeah, what really struck me about the photographer is there's this fear of in a lot of different industries that they're going to be, you know, made obsolete, their jobs are going to be obsolete, because AI is going to take it over. And his premise was, I can either be afraid of it, and and let it consume me, or I can learn how to use it. So he said, On a typical, you know, major photo shoot, he may take 3000 photos, and he's going to use like aI loop to look at all of those photos. Well, now he's actually using AI software, that he'll tell the AI software, pick the best 20. And then he examines them. And then for whatever artistic, you know, value that he adds in at that point. But he said it's cut his work down incredibly. So you can either be afraid of it and run away, or you learn how to embrace it, because isn't, it's not going anywhere. It's not going away.

Ellen Gustafson: 11:20

Great. So now that we've kind of covered what AI is, how we're using it in our everyday life, and really how some industries are using it, I think we should move on to chat GPT, which is really what we're hearing about everywhere in the news. Cookie, can you give us you know, the information kind of? What is it? Why is it in every headline. And I know Tisha, and I have been using it. So we have a little bit of background here, but maybe share with our listeners. Sure,

Pookie Foster: 11:53

open AI is the organization that created chat GPT, and which is a chatbot. And they it's they say introducing chat GPT. We've trained a model called Chat GPT, which interacts in a conversational way. The dialogue format makes it possible for chat GPT to answer follow up questions, admitted some mistakes, challenge incorrect premises, and reject inappropriate requests. So that is a very interesting definition. Because one of the reasons AI or Chechi beauty is in the headlines is for a certain conversation it had with a journalist at the New York Times, Kevin Rose, who is a fantastic tech journalist, sat on a pre release version of Bing and which is the Microsoft search engine that incorporates chat GPT, and had a very long conversation with chat GPT, within within Bing, and apparently, their name is Sydney. And chat GPT apparently went into Homewrecker mode, because in this conversation, Sydney told Kevin, that he's really not happy. He's really his wife doesn't love him, and that he needs to leave his wife and be with Sydney. so unbelievably, this actually occurred. And it was on the front page of the times. And it's a fantastic podcast, about Kevin's podcast episode that that talked about this. They talked about this interlude. And so that was a very high profile. Example, but literally, it's it's been in, in the news because, for example, students are using it to write essays. And people are using it in all kinds of useful ways. I, I heard of an instance where someone a non native English speaker wanted to push back at his landlord for a rent increase that he felt was too high. So we asked Chad GPT to write a negotiation letter and a specific style based on a certain book that he named. And Chad GPT wrote the letter, and in fact, it worked because it reduced the rent increase by half. So there are really infinite ways to use check GPT and people are just getting started with it. But I think Ellen, you mentioned that some numbers about how quickly check GPT has become mainstream.

Ellen Gustafson: 14:30

That's right. Pookie, I mean, the adoption of chat GPT is is really incredible. It took Netflix 3.53 and a half years to get to a million users Spotify five months, Facebook 10 months, it took cat GPT five. So when you think about that level of adoption, curiosity, people wanting to know and experience this is pretty amazing. The chat GPT website currently has a billion visitors per month billion with a B, right and as you said, we are just dipping our toe in this water. And so I think as we've said the use use case says the uses for this are endless, absolutely endless. Now, when I've used it, I've enjoyed it more as a research tool. Because unlike some of the other search engines that serve you up ads, when they serve you up, you know, sponsored content first. One of the things I do like about at GPT is that it doesn't do that. And as you said, cookie, you can ask follow up questions can continue to read query around the same topic. And I just love that.

Tish Woods: 15:52

Yeah, so you know, it's good, we can kind of round back to that one. New York Times article that had come out, the big controversy was that was typically when you push back on the AI, if you say, No, I'm not looking for that I want this. They're supposed to kind of go in the direction you want them to go in. And that was what a lot of the hoopla was on that one that the AI kept going forward. No, no, no, you want to leave your wife, you want to be with me? So they haven't been working on that to kind of correct those issues, correct?

Pookie Foster: 16:32

Yes. And Microsoft quickly, quickly issued a statement that it had, it had fixed that. So. So perhaps, Sydney is no longer looking for a boyfriend. Friend, one of the one of the great things about chat GPT is, as you said, Elena is a research tool, because you get more qualitative answers. So here's an example that, that I also heard about. And someone asked, what, what shoes should a well dressed man have in his wardrobe? So if you ask that of Google, you would probably get a lot of ads, and you would get probably a whole bunch of shoe hits. But chatty, btw gave an answer that said, Well, The Well Dressed Man should have eight pairs of shoes in his wardrobe, and proceeded to list list them. So like a black cap toe Oxford sneakers, if you're adventurous espadrilles, flip flops. So it had eight and carefully, carefully curated list of eight. And so that qualitative aspects, I think is really interesting. And also this notion about aggregating information across sources, which is one of TPT strengths, so so it really easily understandable. Example is recipe aggregation. So I heard an example of how a user said, Hey, I need vegetarian meals for a week. Find me some good recipes, with some with some qualifiers like no cilantro, or, or what have you. So Chat GPT proceeded to build a week's worth of menus and, and then the user approved the menus and said, Okay, now go make me a store list. So Chad GBT was able to look across all of the recipes and produce a composite grocery list. So you need eight onions, you need three cans of Roma tomatoes, etc. So what used to take this woman about an hour took about five minutes now. So that's another example of how it can really help.

Tish Woods: 18:57

I had just done that too, with, you know, give me five healthy meals for a single person. And not only did he give me the grocery list, it also went another step on my journey one, and said, also make sure you're picking up some salt, and it was talking about staples for the cupboard. And I thought, isn't that interesting, it thought to add those for me. So it wasn't just the actual list, but it talked about, like things that you should normally make sure you have salt and pepper in this. And there's like five different things on the list. So it was quite interesting that it took that extra step as well.

Ellen Gustafson: 19:37

Yeah, I was just reading just one more example. Because I think these are so endless about the college admissions process. Not with gaming, the your essay, which I think is where everyone's mind would go there. You know, kids applying to college have to write this big common app essay, but it was talking about putting together helping you to put together a timeline, a visiting schedule for schools, to really understand financial aid, the net price of colleges and to really put together even your personalized list, which is something that takes a lot of work for kids and parents to do with them. So I thought this were all Really interesting ways to help with something that can be a very big process that could take hours and hours. And really just condense it down as, as we're all saying to two minutes, you know, versus days. So I really liked that application of it.

Tish Woods: 20:40

And I think what's important, too, for anyone who's never tried chat GPT, when you put the question in, it is almost instantaneous that you're getting all this information. And I did this kind of comparison, I did a Google search. And I did a chat GPT. And the chat GPT seemed to hone more into specifics for me, where I always sometimes when I'm Google searching, I'm keep digging and digging and digging. The chat GPT seem to be a more comprehensive list that was giving me

Ellen Gustafson: 21:17

thinking more, right, Pookie? Yes, yes. I mean, the one thing to know about Chat GPT is that the dataset does end in 2021. Correct. So, yeah, I think it's not including things right up until today. 2023. But I think, do we know if that's going to change as these things kind of come out of beta and go a little more mainstream?

Pookie Foster: 21:47

Yes. I mean, they're open AI is, I'm sure, very busy at work on chat, GPT, five, chat GPT. Three was out in November. And then very quickly, after that, the version four came out, which is what's currently in use. So I'm sure they have a very aggressive, aggressive release schedule with ever more training data.

Tish Woods: 22:12

So Ellen, I found it interesting that you brought up about the schools and stuff. And I remember back when AutoCorrect and being warned from like, teachers and stuff don't depend on that you'll forget how to spell anything. And now I don't know anyone who really doesn't, you know, heavily depend on AutoCorrect in a lot of ways, but I'm really wondering, like in schools, I know that there's ways for because my son was telling me, the teachers had told him, there's ways for the professors to see if you're using chat GPT to write stuff. But I still think there's a lot of ways that students can use chat GPT in generating ideas, as opposed to doing their work. You know, where do you see where students could maybe leverage chat GPT best?

Pookie Foster: 23:04

Well, I, I am not a huge fan of, of using it for schoolwork. I think that that when you when you look at it from from the strictest point of view that if you're using it to write essays, or generate ideas, even you Well, certainly to write essays and present them as your own work, that's cheating. And any cheating robs you of the opportunity to learn something because that's the stuff you're cheating about. So I, I think that every every school has an honor code that you're not supposed to cheat. And I think Chad GPT falls under that. There is a lot of controversy about using it in the classroom to generate ideas. And I've heard educators, both pro and against, I think that even though in generating ideas, that it's kind of like just another iteration of today's digital kids who constantly have, they have everything coming at them to stimulate their mind, and they don't really need to stimulate their mind themselves. And this is just another just another layer of that, that ultimately, I think makes people think less.

Ellen Gustafson: 24:23

I agree with that. I can see it. I don't know how schools will kind of fold this into their honor code. But you know, where obviously, every kid has been warned college, you know, high school. I can't imagine kids using it younger than that, that this is not the way to go. But I know that you chatted with us. Pooky a little bit too about this Drake song and what was going on maybe you can share with our listeners a little bit about that.

Pookie Foster: 24:55

Yes, this happened recently the the Deep Fake Drake song with the weekend. So one of the things about generative AI, which is this class of AI like check GPT there's there's a visual image system called dally that that also works with images and and And also this generative AI technology also works with sound. So you can you can capture someone's voice, a pretty short snippet of it and ask Chet GPT to create something using that voice. So so with this with the, with the Drake and weekend song, a fan, used, captured, pretty easy to capture Drake's voice in the weekends voice and, and asked Chet GPT to create a song using both both of their, their voices and their style, their their cadence. So this song, the name which escapes me right now, I think it's called my sleep, they just go out of my sleep. And, as it turns out, it was really good. So it was on, I believe, was on Spotify. And people were loving it, they're especially loving it, because apparently, Drake hasn't collabed with the weekend for quite some time. So that was kind of surprising. So, so what ultimately happened with the song is that it was pulled, the labels don't like this, obviously, the music labels and it was pulled from the music services. But as it happens, it was not because of the voice that was replicated without authorization is because at that specific song, the deep fake Drake song had a sample of another of another song that was not that use was not authorized. So that was a copyright violation. So the the copyright implementation implications of this are kind of wild. Because as it stands there, there apparently I'm not a lawyer, but apparently there is not a legal precedent to to prohibit people from from using synthetically generated voice. Some artists have jumped right into this. And they're all for it. For example, Grimes. Elon Musk's partner or one of she, she's she has said, She's totally down to have people use her voice. She just wants to have the royalties. But I also think that depends on what kind of music people are making, let's say, yeah, there's all kinds of ways for that to get for that to get mangled. So that was a big thing.

Tish Woods: 27:50

I'm wondering how fast our legal system is going to be able to catch up to this new technology, because it's it's so fast and so rapid and the changes, are they going to be able to legislate protections for people under it?

Pookie Foster: 28:08

Well, that's a very good question, because technology in general has remained wildly unregulated. And ai, ai is pretty unregulated as well. So the fact that technology moves very fast, and the wheels of justice moves slowly and legislation even more slowly, I think, is really setting just setting things up for you know, we're sort of in for a wild ride, I think.

Ellen Gustafson: 28:39

Yeah, and I think that as these applications go wider and wider and wider, this is going to not just have a legal but I think International and some geopolitical implications as well, as things develop here. You know, Pookie, I think it's really important for people to keep up with this keep up with technology in general. But especially around AI and chat GPT and read credible source. That's right, because there's a lot of crap out there. And we're hoping you can share with us some sources that you use to kind of keep up with technology, but specific content. Sure,

Pookie Foster: 29:25

I, I walk my dog a lot. And I like to listen to podcasts, including the Positively Midlife Podcast on my daily walk. And I also enjoy a podcast called Hardfork and that is produced by the New York Times and that is that is with the New York Times journalist I previously mentioned, his name is Kevin Roose, and his very funny companion Casey, Casey Newton who has a newsletter called platformer and they what I really like about this podcast is that they they are very thoughtful and they dive deep on these issues. They use the technology, they take the time to explore all aspects of an issue. So I I enjoy that. On the flip side. For kind of a mile wide and an inch deep coverage. I enjoy another podcast called pivot which has OG tech journalist Kara Swisher and the entertaining Scott Galloway, he's an NYU professor and one of the most insecure men, I think I've heard on a podcast, very entertaining, but they have great analysis and coverage, and guests on on their podcast that I always find, like up to the minute super illuminating, and really insightful. I read The New York Times every day, and the technology coverage is in there, and just all sorts of other other miscellaneous stuff that comes across my feet every day. So those are those are some of my top resources. And and as well as talking with technologists, talking with my clients, who are who are making this technology.

Tish Woods: 31:01

Now, can you share some of your thoughts on you know, what is the future going forward going to look like for chap? GPT? What is your opinion on that?

Pookie Foster: 31:11

Well, I think there is a lot of FUD around fear, uncertainty and doubt about Chat GPT, obviously, and like any technology innovation, people are afraid of their jobs being replaced by machine. And this is been around for decades, as different waves of technology have have emerged. There is there is a lot of concern about paralegals, personal assistants, translators and others who perform rote tasks to be potentially replaced by Chat GPT. But I also think that it as with any technology innovation, that that as more mundane tasks become automated, it frees people up to do more valuable work. So I think that that is the way that I'm looking at chat GPT because I'm a writer, and the elephant in the room is, do you think you're going to be replaced by chat GBT? And I thought about it. And I realized that I work with executives who have original thoughts, and they want me to help them communicate them. So I would never, I would never ask, I would never outsource that to a bot. It's too important to them. And it's too important to me. So. So for now, I feel like my livelihood is pretty safe. But in larger picture, I think, unfortunately or not, commerce will always triumph over discretion to the better part of valor. So I think that just as just as kind of the Move fast and break things, attitude of Facebook has really become the norm in tech, I think that will also apply to check GPT. And what why why that's really unfortunate is that I feel that these technologies are developed with the best of intentions and release with the best of intentions. But the reality is, is that any technology is also a bonanza for criminals, and especially this with the voice impersonation. And there, I am just afraid to see what comes out.

Ellen Gustafson: 33:26

Right, it does seem like the Wild Wild West, as we like to say here, right? Yes. With with really no regulation.

Tish Woods: 33:36

Yeah, there, there was that recent case where somebody had copied child's voice, and then leveraged it, like they had taken the child and tried to get money out of the family. And so yeah, I think we have to go back to those days where you have to have a family code word. Well,

Pookie Foster: 34:02

I think the the larger the larger issue also is to really stay abreast of this topic. fraud and scams have exploded over the last several years. And this is just another area where the technology will be used to trick people. And part part them from their money. So I think reading, reading about the topic, and just keeping keeping up to date on what's happening is is part now of protecting your financial wealth.

Tish Woods: 34:37

Now, pool gate, you're somebody who is very comfortable and very knowledgeable about tech. But what would be some advice you would give to like new users into this whole AI and Chat GPT? What would be some pieces of advice you would give to them to kind of reach out and start embracing this technology?

Pookie Foster: 34:59

Well, I think that there are there are many, many applications that are being used, or they're being based on this generative AI and and tissue. You mentioned that you have an app on your phone called Genie, which I had not heard of, but apparently you found it pretty He's late, you must have Googled check GBT from my phone or something like that. So. So it's pretty easy. I think most people are comfortable with using a smartphone and downloading apps. And I think a simple Google search or even going to open AI and asking Chet GPT what's the best way? What's the best way I can learn to use chat? GPT? That would be that's sort of,

Tish Woods: 35:45

we're gonna ask Chat GPT what's the best way we can use this? Yes, I love that.

Pookie Foster: 35:52

So I guess to embrace it at whatever level you're comfortable with, and be aware of it. And and don't be afraid.

Tish Woods: 36:05

I love that. That's great advice.

Ellen Gustafson: 36:07

I I agree with that advice, wholeheartedly cookie, and I think you're at midlife, embracing things, and not being afraid of them is something we all really have to lean into, across the board. And so thank you for joining us today and sharing with our listeners all about AI, and chat GPT. I think we know they have, they already are having significant impacts on our lives and the lives of women worldwide. So as Pookie said, embrace it, don't be afraid of it, and get to know and be comfortable with technology.

Tish Woods: 36:46

Yeah, I'm gonna just say to our listeners, you know what, download one of these apps play around on I think you'll really enjoy some of the things that can do. But, you know, for all of our listeners, we're going to have a lot of information in our show notes. You know, especially from Pookie, that some of the things that she has mentioned and the different podcasts that she likes to listen to, if you really want to learn some more about what AI is all about and what's coming up next. But until next week, we hope you have a fantastic week.

Ellen Gustafson: 37:23

Take care. See you next week.