Rev. Malik Hokyu Walker: Shikantaza and Hishiryo

Rev. Malik Hokyu Walker presents a talk entitled, "Shikantaza and Hishiryo: The working tools of Zen".

Transcript

Well, good morning.

I'm happy that we have a guest speaker today who I met a couple months ago at

the Soto Zen Buddhist Association Conference in Pennsylvania.

One reason I really enjoy those conferences is

to meet new practitioners and

then share with the Sangha kind of the breadth and depth of Soto Zen is from

practitioners who have had different experiences in different parts of the country.

Um.

And Reverend Malik Walker is a long, probably kind of long-time Zen priest and a scholar.

He has a degree in systematic theology, which maybe he can tell us what that is.

But, uh, One reason I connected with Malik is his Zen tradition comes through Deshimaru Roshi,

who kind of brought Soto Zen to Europe in the 1970s, particularly to France, in sort of a big way.

Very many Soto Zen centers in Europe, in Dishma Roshi's lineage.

But in the U.S. there was one teacher in his lineage, Robert Livingston,

who taught in New Orleans, And that's where Malik joined that tradition.

One thing that interests me about—well, Tezen Deshmeru is a very prominent,

powerful teacher—but his teacher was Kodo Swakiroshi.

And another student to Koda Suwaki Roshi was Uchiyama Roshi,

who was very influential in Soto Zen.

So they were Dharma brothers. But going back further.

Koda Suwaki's teacher was Okasan Roshi, who had another student, Hashimoto Roshi.

So Katagiri Roshi, his main training teacher was Hashimoto Roshi,

Dharma brother of Koda Suwaki Roshi.

Then going back a little further, one of Okusan Roshi's students was Iyan Roshi,

who was Suzuki Roshi's training teacher.

So I feel like we're gathering up a big family reunion of distant cousins by

having Reverend Walker with us today.

But I'll stop blabbing and turn it over to you, Matt.

Good morning again. I'm really grateful to be here with you all.

And I'm really excited to talk with you and to kind of think through some things

regarding sin and practice and praxis,

really,

is the way that I like to talk about it.

And, you know, just to kind of follow up with what Reverend Jodo Cliff was talking

about with the Deshumaru lineage,

Taizen Deshumaru came from Japan and went to France.

And so it flowered for maybe 40, 50 years, actually 55 years at this point throughout Europe.

And Robert Livingston came to New Orleans. That's where I started some time ago.

One of the interesting or most one of the unique things about history.

Deshumaru's approach is like, it's not different from any other Zen or any other,

uh, you know, it's like, it's like any other lineage, right?

You know, that's kind of a, you know, especially in the States,

it's kind of an illusion that, you know, these lineages are so different, right?

So we're all, we're all family, right? We're all cousins and stuff.

But, uh, do you, what's unique about Dashumaru is his emphasis on the bodily nature of Zaza.

While that is, Zen is a approach of the body, it's samadhi, right, it's concentration.

I think because of his martial arts background, the physicality of Zen was really, really emphasized.

And it's something that I have really

kind of took to as I began to practice that

physicality especially is being something that takes the emphasis off of the

mental and opens up a way of listening to the other intelligences operating in the body,

right what else is talking right you know and and uh where where can the intuition

be cultivated through listening to these different intelligences uh and you know the depths of that.

Engagement it's something that was really that really impressed upon me a long

time ago and And it's something that, not perfectly, for sure,

but something that I think is really significant,

a significant contribution in at least the way of thinking about Zen and practice.

It helped me because, as was pointed out, I have my PhD in systematic theology.

You know, it's a lot of brain stuff, a lot of philosophy.

Uh and uh really

especially when it comes to western philosophy theology

there is this kind of alienation uh between

mind and body or at least there is this

kind of uh demarcation whether that's

real or or uh you

know you know or or viable or you know what have you right that demarcation

is very very characteristic of western philosophy western western epistemology

right you know the ways that we think and the kind of generating of our thought uh.

So having a

practice that displaces or at least kind of reconfigures the attention toward

these other intelligences and the practice of cultivating listening to these intelligences, right?

That the intuition, I think, is something that is really significant that also

kind of dissolves that demarcation of body-mind,

dissolves that dissonance and distance of what we think and what we intend and

how we act and where we kind of put our bodies, right?

So that the inside is the outside, right? What is above is so below.

So, and that's why I chose the title of the talk to be, you know,

like Hishuryo and Shikantaza as working tools.

You know, like from another practice of mine, you know, there's,

you know, at least in the operative world of building, there is this idea that,

you know, you need, you can't, I mean, even now today,

like as an academic or anybody who's working, there are certain things you need to do your job.

I need a computer. I need a pen. I need paper.

Like those are my working tools as an academic. I need those things.

Right. And if they, if my pen doesn't work or I'm out of paper or my computer is messed up,

Who's going to answer those emails? No, not really. But, you know,

these working tools for any vocation or any way that one proceeds,

right, we need these things. They're necessary.

Um and you know there's there's the operative side

is also you know kind of the uh you

know kind of metaphysical or not metaphysical but like you

know the analogous kind of speculative side of it like you know we also need

there are certain things we need uh to operate and move in the world different

for different people uh but these necessities right you know as necessary as us brushing our teeth,

right, or making sure that we eat or drinking water.

These aren't tools, but they are.

Those things we can't do without. Or we know we're in trouble if we're without them.

You know, and the thing is, Shikantaza is something, or Shikantaza in Shuryo,

I mean, they're a technical term, right? You know, Dogen really emphasized them.

Kodosawaki emphasized them in two very different ways.

I mean, their sensibility is like 800 years apart, but...

The emphasis on just sitting, right, Shikantaza, and thinking,

not thinking, Shuryo, it's like, was elevated to a certain extent,

right, especially in Soto Zen, right?

In Soto Zen, there's this elevation of Zazen as almost to a deified proportion,

right, without the deity stuff, right?

It's elevated to this place where, like, this is, if you're not doing this,

you're not doing Zen, right?

It's like, as much as you're not, you know, breathing, right? Right.

So these two things, these two,

quote, working tools, the things that make Zazen work, in other words,

they're not opposed or individuated from each other.

They're indicative of a whole in a way that is hard to communicate, right?

And I think that's the difference between something that's philosophical or

like a philosophy or an ideology or even a theology.

And something and the reason why I call them working tools is because it's,

they become something they are the elements of,

experience that we put to use right, you know Zazen the experience of Zen Buddhism,

is to, involves putting your body into it right The body that is conditional, the body that suffers,

the body as the world in the world where suffering is happening,

where vulnerability is ubiquitous.

And, and, and there's no, uh, where we can see what's true and real about existence

of ours and existence period, right?

That it is vulnerable, that there is suffering and that there are sources of

these suffering, right? You know, noble truths, all that good stuff.

So these tools are the

facilitators of that experience and it's

like as much as you can say what these things are you can describe the

or give throw terminology at it these tools

are what facilitate that a

deep or real experience right that

experience that nobody can really talk about that tangible intangible thing

uh that's zazen right that's part of you know it's like we can talk about like

the effects of it they can talk about the benefits we can talk about whatever

which as kodos huwaki would say it's like it's worth nothing it's nothing nothing,

right that nothingness uh means that it doesn't uh,

you know, it doesn't play into a benefit economy or a consumption economy.

You can't control it, hold on to it. You can't regulate it.

It's a praxis. It happens in life as part of living versus something that operates

within an economy or that has a politics or an ideology.

Um, there's something, this is, I mean, Kurosawaki was called Homeless Kodo.

There was, there was something about the way that he elevated Zazen and,

and kind of emphasized it's the, the, the physicality and the worth nothingness, right?

Post-war Japan, that I think is very significant because there's something on

one side of it that is really committed to what I'll call aliveness.

Right?

Like living your life, right?

That inside and the outside, the inner and the outer experience are fully invested

here and now in the, in reality.

Um, you know, that's, you know, that I think that's a really significant part of it.

I think Deshimaru kind of drew from that in a very specific way.

And I think that that is kind of the heart, the deep heart and soul of Soto

Zen, of Zen period, Buddhism, Right.

That the inside and the outside is fully living, fully alive,

fully present and concentrated here and now.

The other side of it that I think Bokotaswaki especially that I think Deshumaru

was very keen on kind of taking was kind of something about this practice is

really anti-authoritarian not so much about a teacher and a student but about this idea of,

the experience being dictated to an individual or that the.

That there are rules or criteria of interpretation with which to articulate

one's being here and now. That's not there.

There's an ambivalence or at least a nervousness about talking about nirvana,

something being success, satori.

Or about the effects of Zen. And like, oh, it makes me happier,

it makes me lighter, it makes me whatever, right?

It's not about what it makes me or what it makes you, right?

It doesn't make. It works.

Those working tools are the means in which we engage in practicing aliveness.

Zazen being this stillness, this part of the day,

part of life that is this stillness that allows us to cultivate the different

spheres and layers of the experience of aliveness.

That connects to suffering and the suffering around us, the suffering that's inside, right?

So that the inside isn't the outside, or that the outside and the inside are fully engaged, right?

That we are always pushing against,

or at least trying to dispel, cast away our delusions about our inner experience

and the outer experience of our lives, of life, of livingness. Right?

It's a big... It's a...

It's a big hoarder to take in.

I remember talking to a friend of mine who studied Tibetan Buddhism and was

very, very deeply involved in it.

We would do reading groups and stuff, and we're reading Dogen.

He's into the very intellectualized Tibetan Dzogchen scholars and all those

great having talks with him.

But when we would talk about Dogen and talk about kind of the,

the real intensity and what he would say, extreme approach, right.

He, he kind of freaked out. I was like, man, that's dark.

You know, like the expectation is that you're supposed to drink the ocean and

do it as, as, as militantly and as, as, as possible.

And, you know, as like, well, yeah, isn't that the point?

Uh you know it's it's uh you know

it's when you really sit down and think about it

it's it you know it freaks i

don't know i mean it's easy to get freaked out um but

what what's actually happening when we're in

like practicing zazen you know

whether we're whether it's recreational for

entertainment or whether it's the kind of like whatever like

for whatever intention right because once again it's not about you we

are conditioned the body is conditional we have the

conditions right we change whatever just

sitting and uh thinking not thinking as tools are not conditional and so the

engagement with it is you know you know in zazen is this deconditioning of our

conditionality, to open up,

one, not just us saying, I feel this way, but also to see, be present to a world

where everything is happening.

Because everything's happening inside of us.

Now, what that gets you to do, what that mobilizes you to be,

that's, once again, you have to kind of search those intelligences that facilitate that.

But when it comes to when you know when we talk about zen versus meditation,

or even mindfulness right which not poo-pooing them like they are these terms

are very important in their own ways and express uh aspects of the dharma when

we're talking about zen and Zen as Zazen.

We're talking not just about my Zen practice or the practice.

We're talking about a real kind of.

In investment or divestment into here and now into real reality livingness as it is and,

it's not meant to be something that you uh you know there are always there will

be effects Great effects,

but it's not, you know, that's not the intention or the energetic kind of orientation to it.

It's not about what you get out of it. It's about the divestment of self that

can draw in the ocean of suffering that exists in the world,

making you this large reservoir. This is what we're talking about, refuges, right?

We become this large reservoir, a reservoir that is already there,

already ready to be fully open, but it needs these tools, this practice, this practice, right?

But it's work, not labor, work.

That's why we practice.

I mean, I'm the worst about this because I struggle a lot with Zazen.

I've been practicing for years.

And I know that my Dharma sister is like, this should be part of the routine,

like brushing your teeth or taking a bath or your morning coffee,

right? I'm very religious about my morning coffee.

But for some reason, Zazen is like, okay, all right.

Because it is work. It is work.

You know, it is as natural as everything else is, but it's not.

It challenges you in a way that brushing your teeth just doesn't.

Now, you know, if you don't brush your teeth, you know, yeah,

there are consequences for you and everybody else.

But the work of Zazen is the really staking of one's body into the moment,

into the entirety of here and now.

It's more than just part of, at least for me, I would say, it's more than just

part of the daily routine.

Though it has to be, but it's also this really,

these working tools are what make this practice more than just something fanciful or escapist,

or even quietist.

To work right not labor because if it's labor then you should be getting paid for it,

there's nothing here right at least you know the getting nothing you know the

musho toku as we call it right no profit no gain uh and that's kind of there's there's different,

The different layers where that work is happening.

But I go back to this, the fact that in Zazen, in Zen Buddhism,

whatever the umbrella, whatever the intention of all this is,

it is about staking our whole bodies, our whole selves, here and now.

And the work of being fully present and open intensively and without abandon,

or with abandon, to here and now.

And these, you know, just sitting, thinking, not thinking, these are the tools,

as tangible and intangible as they are, that help to facilitate that.

I think that's the the kind of nature of what we call you know what we say like

zen is zazen you know this elevation of zazen as the as this uh.

I don't know, like, revolutionary, but not like revolutionary,

but this kind of total intensive practice that really opens us up to living

this in all of its struggles, in all of its vulnerabilities,

facing our own struggles and vulnerabilities, because it's a part of that,

right? The inside is the outside.

You know so yeah i'll

leave it at that i mean it's like it's kind of still like kind of

the meta level but i think you know i didn't i don't want to like i mean this

is a talk now i don't want to like instruct you on stuff i do go into professor

mode sometimes and you know i really want to kind of like pull back because

it it's it's a strong temptation for me but i think you You know,

like I said, these working tools, if you will,

are, I mean, or thinking about them as working tools, I think is a really,

for me, has been a very productive way to kind of engage that kind of intensive openness.

And to go deeper into the the mysteries of them whatever that might be so yeah so thank you very much.