American Towing and Recovery Institute onThe Go
American Towing and Recovery Institute onThe Go
Championing Safety and Service
Discover the unsung heroes of the towing and recovery industry with us, as we shine a light on their relentless dedication to safety, education, and community service. Join DJ Harrington and towing veteran Wes Wilburn, boasting over four decades of experience, as we recount heartwarming Thanksgiving tales and salute those who keep our roads safe, even in the harshest conditions like the recent snowfall in New York and Pennsylvania. From navigating the treacherous winter weather to ensuring rest and safety for workers, our conversation underscores the crucial yet often overlooked contributions these professionals make, especially during emergencies.
Our journey continues with a focus on the inspiring initiatives within the industry aimed at supporting veterans and bolstering community development. We delve into the collaborative efforts such as those by Ina Towing and the American Towing and Recovery Institute, which are transforming old hotels into homes for veterans and providing essential transportation solutions. The episode also grapples with pressing regulatory challenges and safety issues, examining the complex landscape of private property towing and emphasizing the need for self-defense training in encounters like the one in Phoenix. Tune in for a comprehensive look at the industry's unwavering commitment to service, advocacy, and safety.
Welcome one and all to the American Towing Recovery Institute podcast.
Speaker 1:Remember this is your podcast to promote safety, education, positive public relations and networking within the professional and business-minded towing and recovery industry. I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the Tow Doctor, and my other host is Wes Wilburn, over 40-year towing industry veteran, the founder of American Towing Recovery Institute of Fayetteville, north Carolina. He has produced and conducted training and certification programs for leading towing companies, equipment distributors, towing associations, dot, fire departments, rescue, as well as military installations across the United States. Wes has been published over 100 times in major towing publications published over 100 times in major towing publications. Wes has developed many courses, including the most recent awareness-level course for all responders that specialize in electric vehicles as well as hybrid, natural gas and hydrogen vehicles. Wes has provided insight as the main speaker for over 30 years at more than 900 training classes and has been recognized as one of America's greatest towing trainers. He is well known for his straightforward but down-to-earth teaching style. No-transcript. Without further ado, here's my dear friend and a great guy for our industry, wes Wilber.
Speaker 2:Well, DJ, as always, you're too kind with your introduction. I certainly appreciate it. Excited to be back here Just got done with Thanksgiving and everything. How was your Thanksgiving in your household? It was fantastic the be back here Just got done with Thanksgiving and everything. How was your Thanksgiving in your household?
Speaker 1:It was fantastic. The grandchildren were here, we had a great, gigantic turkey. It was a good, good time. Good time by all.
Speaker 3:Thanksgiving and we're still having turkey. I think today's our last day of turkey. I think we're pretty well tired of it. It was a really good Thanksgiving. We just went out to actually eat Thanksgiving Day and then I made a big dinner for two people. That's why we're still eating turkey. It was very good. I haven't had it cooked for a few days.
Speaker 1:That's another good thing now, wes can I ask you guys, does she cook sweet potato casserole?
Speaker 2:no, no, we didn't have it. She didn't cook any. With our meal, which, again, we'll cover just two, and you do the potatoes and the stuffing and some vegetables of some sort, yeah, but no, to answer your question directly. When you come for just two and you do the potatoes and stuff and then some, you know, vegetables of some sort, yeah, gets to be a lot, but no, to answer your question directly.
Speaker 3:But I did make banana cream pies, not the same thing. No, you know, not bad.
Speaker 1:Not bad, not bad. Well, I am now a believer on sweet potato casserole, which I was not before, but I am now. Pretty good, isn't it? Oh, which I was not before, but I am now Pretty good, isn't it? Oh, it was delicious and I hope all our listeners had a great Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hopefully they did. Hopefully they got to enjoy the meal with their family, not get called out. But a lot of people don't realize that outside of the industry is a tremendous service the average telling company gives to their community by keeping the doors open 24-7, respond to emergency calls and whatnot. A lot of people don't think about that. I don't believe you, jay. Along with all the other people and services the fire, the police, of course, but hospitals, electric companies A lot of people keep things running, don't they? They sure do. A lot of people keep things running, don't they?
Speaker 1:They sure do, and I did not understand this until a few years ago. I spent Thanksgiving with Kevin Fox down at Alligator Towing in Fort Myers, florida, and he says come on down, they're doing one of these turkey roasts. So I go down there, he has men out on trucks. So I go down there, he has men out on trucks and all of a sudden A three car accident. Everybody gets asked to get up and we're all in cars, trucks heading out to the accident. And we came back later that night and finished the meal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's happened more than once. And a lot of folks don't realize it. Again, I believe the towing industry does not get the recognition it deserves from its community and whatnot. The deeper we're getting into doing the news.
Speaker 2:There's an example of an article today that we're going to talk about in the second portion, I guess maybe the third, whatever we get to it. But the general public just really doesn't understand the industry at all and makes assumptions et cetera, where the general public just really doesn't understand the industry at all and makes assumptions et cetera. So it's a shame but hopefully everybody had a safe and good Thanksgiving, got to have a meal at some point. Hopefully it wasn't interrupted.
Speaker 2:But we know that the scenario has played out time and time again. Talking about being interrupted, you might be interrupted. Boy, they got a lot of snow there in western New York and Pennsylvania again.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:You got the board on? Yeah, it's been the second time that I've seen reports on social media where the Pennsylvania State Police were requesting additional towing services in parts of the state. A week ago, during the? Uh beginning of the busy travel week, I guess the weekend of the baltimore show the? Um had a lot of snow in that region and, um and uh, the state police called out for help that time and then a week later they called out for help in another region that's with so much snow um, I don't know that.
Speaker 4:I've heard of that happening before I know.
Speaker 2:a lot of tellers are working around the clock up there and I hope they're taking a little bit of time for some rest and nourishment, because it gets dangerous real quick, especially they're working whiteout conditions with five and six foot of snow.
Speaker 2:In some areas I take it back 50 or 60 inches of snow. Excuse me, that's what I saw on the news last night. They reported several of these towns got lake effect snows in excess of 50 inches, up to 60 inches, and that's serious, serious stuff. Oh my, you had an experience, didn't you? Dj was getting stuck on the interstate at one point with a snowstorm.
Speaker 1:I sure did. Twice. It happened in Kentucky and the state trooper was so kind. He said you got to leave your car here. You got to take your one suitcase with you. And so I got in his patrol car and all of a sudden he makes phone calls and he said I have one male you know in his late 30s and he takes me to a college campus. And I was there for four days and I stayed in the culinary school. So I snowed in all right with a bunch of cooks.
Speaker 3:So it was delicious meals every day. Well, dj, that must have been like 10 or 12 years ago if you were in your 30s.
Speaker 2:Yes, why did they have to say how old you were? That's ageism. Dj, I'd have to talk to the state patrol about that. That's ageism isn't it?
Speaker 1:But he was trying to tell him because they had just finished parents weekend, so a parent had gone home and took their student with them, and I ended up taking the student's room. So it worked out for me, hey guys.
Speaker 3:Tell our listeners what's coming up. Well, 2025 is starting off really well. Dj we actually got a class in. January January, of course we got a free two-hour EV course in Lake Charles Louisiana, and that is followed by a one-day heavy duty on the 25th and a one-day light duty on the 26th.
Speaker 2:It's a great setup down there. We work with Elite Services there in Lake Charles. They work with the association. The association helps sponsor the event Tele-Recovery Professionals of Louisiana. We've had Jared and several of the members on several times, so that's really a fun weekend down there with good networking and whatnot, and hopefully Lake Charles will be a little bit warmer than it is around here today.
Speaker 3:And then in February we don't have far to go at all whatsoever we have an extra class in Fayetteville with Phillips towing on February 8th for a one-day advanced level Lake Judy class.
Speaker 2:Yeah, phillips is hosting. It's an open class, open to whoever is listening. A lot of folks have been asking for something here in somewhat local North Carolina, at least local to where I live so one day light duty on that Saturday Looking forward to it.
Speaker 3:We're going to be in Opelika, alabama, doing a class in conjunction with CP Wrecker and Griffin Griffin, and again on Friday we have the two-hour free EV class. On Saturday, the 8th, we have the heavy duty with rotator one day oh no, that's actually a two-day heavy duty rotator class Wes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it sure is, and that's apparently the state police are going to require some training and, what we understand, we've been approved to meet those requirements. There's a big thing going on in Alabama with the state police.
Speaker 3:Hopefully you're involved in the association down there-hour ev3 class. And then we have a two-day heavy duty with rotator in asheville, north carolina, in conjunction with the north carolina tow association, and midnight towing yeah, they're.
Speaker 2:Uh, we're going to try to work that to asheville. They're still working on the details, but right now that's what's on the plans. And midnight towing yeah, we're going to try to work that to Asheville. They're still working on the details, but right now that's what's on the plans. Try to get some tourists into the area to help them out. You know Asheville was heavily damaged by the floods and whatnot. The local code there is the one that's requested to bring it there, and so we're trying to occur his request to bring it there.
Speaker 3:If not, we'll do a little bit east of there if we can't make that Asheville State work out and in April another two-hour EV class on April the 4th in Long Island, new York, with all-county towing and Estra.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Empire State Towing and Recovery association is doing a sponsorship on that. If you have a, if you're a member company, all the employees you send there's a discount that they'll they'll pay part of the tuition.
Speaker 3:Um on that two-day class the two-day class is a one-day dance of a light duty on the fifth and then there's a one day heavy duty on the sixth, and if they go to um, wwwamtowricom, ororg, they can get a lot of that information yeah, again, if you're an extra member, there's an extra discount.
Speaker 2:You have to look it up on the thing to see exactly what it is.
Speaker 3:Depends on when you register, etc and in may, then in may is the big one. In may is that six day class west yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:We're looking forward to that. We're going to be out just west of st louis actually working on it now. They're acquiring some different things for casualties. They're also making arrangements we're gonna have a very heavy track vehicle that we can get stuck on a piece of farmland, but we can get the thing really stuck. Purpose Purpose Records. Helping sponsor it, along with JNI slash. Cardinal, we're looking forward to that it's going to be when you tell them what the details are.
Speaker 3:On Friday is the light duty version. On Saturday and Sunday is a two-day heavy duty with the rotator, and then the 5th, 6th and seventh, which is the big one, is the invincible heavy duty, and I think that you have a special person coming in on that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Tommy Luciano will come in and teach those three days. The first three, I'll teach with the help of my team. Tommy will teach the last three with the help We'll be there assisting him, of course. So we're looking forward to it. It's a special class. We're not going to one of the things about the classes that he teaches generally, depending on who's hosting the class, the class sizes will be very large. I don't anticipate this thing being over 40 people. As a matter of fact, we think it will end up being around 30. There won't be 70 or 80 people there. So you'll get a chance to get one-on-one time with the instructors, know who the other students are, etc. But again, I'm not knocking big classes, but you look at it from a truly educational standpoint. Once you get past 40, that's a lot, you know, for a hands-on class situation, to get students time doing things, working with the equipment, et cetera.
Speaker 3:We have a total package price. This package price is $3,263. There's an early bird registration fee of $2,870.47. That includes hotels. That includes meals, that includes class. That date is January the 5th. If you register by that date, you will get that price. Yeah it is a heck of a deal.
Speaker 4:All you have to do is get there, we'll take care of everything else.
Speaker 2:If you fly in, we'll even get you picked up at the airport with proper notice. So got to make it easy on you, and it's going to be a first-class event. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3:Last but not least, we have Medford Oregon in June. So June the 20th we have a one-day light duty, and then June the 21st and 27th we have a two-day heavy duty with rotator 21st and 22nd.
Speaker 2:Is that what you said? Yes, okay, yeah, we had a real good class out there in Medford. We got to meet some people. First time in that part of the world. We did that a couple months ago. We're coming back out there, so we're looking forward to all our West Coast people.
Speaker 2:Several people told me that they know we were coming. They would have had people there. So I would have had people there if I didn't do a good job of getting the word out about Medford. Yeah, we're going to be out there once a year at least from now on, and we're coming out in the spring this time to see if that works a little bit better with the weather. So we got to take a quick break and then we got some exciting stuff to talk about, don't we DJ you?
Speaker 1:sure do, buddy. Let's take a break and we'll be right back. Accuracy.
Speaker 5:T-R-A-A, the Injured Drivers Fund, and legislation that makes all of us safer are what makes this industry special. Ina Towing supports all of this and more. When there is a need, gay Rochester is always one of the first to come forward and ask how can I help? The American Towing and Recovery Institute is honored to have the support of the INA Towing Network. Together, we all make a difference. Ina Towing Network simplified solutions, superior service.
Speaker 4:The EV Clever app is an app created for all responders and emergency service personnel. The EV Clever app is the only app containing easy-to-navigate quick links to access manufacturer-suggested instructions for emergency situations dealing with electric and alternative fuel vehicles while on the side of the road.
Speaker 3:That includes hybrid, fully electric fuel cell, compressed natural gas and hydrogen buses and heavy trucks.
Speaker 4:These quick links are a convenient way to access information quickly.
Speaker 3:To date, we have a total of 789 passenger vehicles, over 181 heavy-duty trucks, and adding more every day, thanks to our research team. You can go to evclevercom and use the code podcast2024, get a free 30-day trial and then, after that you get 20% off.
Speaker 1:Welcome back listeners. You know you're listening to the number one podcast in the tone recovery industry With Wes Wilburn and DJ Harrington, and you're listening to the American Tone Recovery Institute podcast. Every episode, we do our best. Every Institute podcast, every episode, we do our best. So, please, we're on Spotify, itunes, andorra Stitcher, iheartmedia, amazon or wherever you get your podcasts and Wes talk about podcasts. We have been so blessed.
Speaker 1:A few months back we started talking about Tunnel to Towers. A few months back we started talking about Tunnel to Towers and you never know how many people listen to the podcast that says you know what? I might have a van to help homeless veterans get reestablished. And that's what's happening. We're involved with Tunnel to Towers and even Bill Johnson up in Massachusetts has a van and what's real nice is off the air.
Speaker 1:I told Wes in April about we have JR Towing out of Colorado and during just before Thanksgiving break, he calls and he said Mr Harrington, I listened to the podcast. I said, well, do you have a van? He said the van is totaled. I said, well, why are you calling Doug? Doug is the owner of JR out in Colorado and he says the disabled person's ramp is in perfect condition. So we are now negotiating getting a recycler to dismantle the ramp in Colorado and have it shipped to Florida to put on a van and donated by Steps Towing.
Speaker 1:So it's one of these amazing things, how people get involved in this. And if you're a listener and you listen to Wes and myself, by all means if you have a van, an eight-passenger van we are helping the tunnel-to-tower villages all across the country help eradicate homelessness for veterans. They're taking old hotels and they're making livable units. So they have a galley kitchen, they have a bathroom, they have a living room and everything is wheelchair accessible, including the vans we're donating. And the donation is on April 11th in Orlando, florida, three blocks from the Florida Toe Show. So, wes, I can't thank our listeners enough.
Speaker 3:I think that is wonderful. And this is Totrick Canyon here with you, dj. That is wonderful. We're going to try to be at both of those things this year. Definitely the Tunnel to the Towers thing that we've watched these testimonials on TV all the time, and it's heartbreaking to watch the vets come back like that, and it's heartwarming to watch what people are doing in these occasions too. So it's bit bittersweet.
Speaker 1:That's the definition of bittersweet yes, and we've been working on it for months and I cannot thank our listeners enough for participating. So you know, by all means, keep us in your prayers, keep, uh, if you have anyone who has a van looking for you know, like an passenger van or it could be a 10 passenger van by the time you put the handicap ramp in the back. We're learning. We can't put it on the side of the van because it's the accessibility of getting in and out of the van is not good on the side, but people that are knowledgeable have informed me that having the ramp come out the back of the van is the best way, no matter where you park. Yeah, so it worked out great.
Speaker 2:That's good. We live in a high veteran population town.
Speaker 2:We're here at Fort Bragg, north Carolina, fayetteville of Fayetteville, and you see a lot of homeless vets and it's absolutely disgusting that the country can't do a better job, especially when you see how much money is being spent on housing illegal immigrants and whatnot. There's the Roosevelt Hotel, which used to be a fine hotel. From what I understand, it's been taken over by them, and I'm not trying to get political, I'm just saying we should be able to take care of our own before we take care of people outside the country, providing a free room and board where our own veterans can certainly use it, and we're proud to be affiliated with it and we thank you, dj, for the work you've done. You're the driving force behind this organization being involved and we can't thank you enough for what you do.
Speaker 1:Well, let me tell you they sent me over the six flags in georgia that they had one, the first one was in houston, and then they're building one in nashville, tennessee, and now the one in atlanta.
Speaker 1:So I go down and he says it's right near six flags. So I get off the exit, off the 20 in at Atlanta, I head towards the Six Flags and I'm sitting there in the Six Flags parking lot. Now, listeners, listen up I turn to the right. Here's a Western Hotel that has been out of business for maybe a year, two years vacant. Tunnel to Towers has bought the hotel and they're now gutting it and making it accessible. They're going to have 92 units and the whole intention is to eradicate homelessness between veterans and they're going to have 92 residences on the second, third and fourth floor, and on the first floor is going to be services for the veterans. So it's going to be fantastic and I can't thank enough for the prayers of all our listeners, but also for the people participating. I really appreciate you, wes.
Speaker 2:Thank you Well. Thank you, dj. It's hard to talk over you. That's area by Six Flags. Last time I was around you, dj, I'm sorry to talk over you that area by Six Flags. Last time I was around there, I was actually headed out to see you and Chuck to do a podcast and we were doing a live with three people and I was running late due to Atlanta traffic and pulled over there in the Six Flags area Boy. That area is ripe for redevelopment.
Speaker 4:It's not only helping the veterans.
Speaker 2:It's helping the area. That's good to hear.
Speaker 1:That's a polite way of saying it. It's a redevelopment area. That's the polite way to say it.
Speaker 2:It needs to be redeveloped. It happens in every American city, big city or small city, so it's good to see that all that's meeting together so real quick. I want to talk about something else with charity. We just did the fire tower cross training class and it reminded me of the importance and the need of telling companies to donate to their local fire department, to their local and state fire academies. Donate cars, complete cars. Don't strip them down. Don't take the wheels and the catalytic converters off. Give them complete cars. More working portions of it the better. It's got electric sheets and and stuff, leaving a battery in it so they can. When they extract the victims in the seat belts, they move the seats forward and things like that make a big difference. Check with your accountant. It's a write-off, more than likely. Um, donating cars, something like that? Again, you need to talk to your accountant, but that's more than likely a write-off for you.
Speaker 2:It's the end of the year, so I know folks are looking for write-offs, so keep that in the back of your mind as well it's a good thing to do and it's much needed, yeah all departments needed.
Speaker 1:Pardon me, all fire departments needed. Yeah, the little town of fort myers. They actually gave a letter that you bring to your cpa and it says thank you for the donation of six vehicles or eight vehicles, and that you put the inventory down of what the vehicle's value is and you get a portion of that value off your taxes because it's going to a nonprofit, which is the fire department. So it's really a good write-off.
Speaker 2:We tell people when they donate for classes to do the same thing. Donating units for classes to do the same thing, donating units for classes. It surprised me how few people do that. It's like membership to our organization things that cost to do a class, all that again.
Speaker 2:You need to check with your account. I'm not an accountant, but short business people I know tell me they can write most, if not all of that. All, yeah, so always a good idea at the end of the year to be thinking about those things, isn't it? Business people I know tell me they can write most, if not all of that all yeah.
Speaker 1:So always a good idea at the end of the year to be thinking about those things, isn't it? After all, it is a business, it sure is. I know my family has just donated all the tires for a veteran museum up in New Jersey and I said to my nephew I said, well, how did you land up doing that? He said, uncle DJ, it's getting near the end of the year. We either pay Uncle Sam or we give the money to a veteran organization. So we're just helping out and it's good tax write-off.
Speaker 3:That's a good way of thinking about it too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have several people that do the same with us and we're really appreciative of that. It makes a big difference. Keep the movement going. Well, dj, we need to take a quick break and after the break, I got some news I want to talk about, and then we're going to get this thing, over and done with you got it.
Speaker 1:Let's take a break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 5:Information in this podcast is made possible by generous sponsorship from Henry's Wrecker. Serving the community with quality towing and recovery for over 40 years. Henryswreckercom the best towing companies offer a combination of great training, efficient operations along with quality supplies, operations along with quality supplies. Towing Equipment Direct is committed to help your towing company stay ahead of the competition by providing the best quality of towing equipment and supplies. Here's why you should choose Towing Equipment Direct for all of your towing supply needs.
Speaker 5:We provide affordable towing supplies and equipment. All towing supplies and equipment are made from the latest technology and we supply products from the most respected brands in the towing industry, offering the widest variety of towing supplies and equipment in New England. If you're not using the latest towing equipment, there's a good chance your company has fallen behind. Savvy consumers can quickly tell which towing companies provide the best service. In many cases, the quality of your equipment and supplies can make a huge difference. Our representatives are knowledgeable in the towing industry, so for the best towing equipment and supplies, count on the team at Towing Equipment Direct. Browse our catalog online at towingequipmentdirectcom or give us a call at 910-747-9000. That's 910-747-9000. That's 910-747-9000. We look forward to serving you.
Speaker 1:Welcome back listeners. You know this is the American Tone Recovery Institute podcast with Wes Wilburn and DJ Arrington. Remember to like, review and share everywhere. If you'd like to tell us your association and things that are happening with your towing association, by all means just dial at the right hotline in the podcast center, 706-409-5603, and we will do our best. Wes and I and the team at American Towing Recovery Institute will be happy to help get that professional pro on this podcast. So, wes, let me turn it over to you and we'll go from there.
Speaker 3:I'm going to actually kick this one off. Okay, dj, you got it. We're doing the news now. So one of the things that I found was Iowa towing industry is pushing back against criticisms as lawmakers weigh new regulations. This is probably something Wes has input on, so I'm going to defer to him. In a second, particularly involving Crow Tow in Des Moines, iowa, however, the industry leaders emphasize their essential role in maintaining access to private. Here's my summary.
Speaker 2:I would tiny comment as well yeah, the industry leaders emphasized their essential role in maintaining access to private land. Here's my summary. I would time you to comment as well. There's a lawsuit for a young lady that was injured at the tow lot. Part of what she said was because the tow lot company gives its drivers bonuses for achieving tows on private property tows, they created a predatory towing environment.
Speaker 2:Somebody that had picked up their car or was stealing their car out of the tow lot doesn't really make it clear because it kind of indicates that they were taking their car back, Ran over this young lady with poor driving and the young lady sued them but also sued the towing company for the conditions. It's one of these many types of lawsuits that happen nowadays Just being involved gets you drug into the situation and they're saying they created the environment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they said they created the environment, but the actual tow operators were not the ones at fault, the ones that did it. It's the environment that was created.
Speaker 2:Yes, they made that clear and they talked about it, but the articles written with the slant of the consumer were not very fair to the towing industry. In my opinion, private property towing, when handled properly, is a necessary evil.
Speaker 2:When handled improperly, it becomes just evil. Basically, in my opinion I talk about this every time I talk about the subject of private property towing Part of the issue is the zoning that land was zoned for, the usage. That creates that parking burden. If towing is going on all the time, the land is not zoned correctly for the amount of traffic and that's the beginning of the problem. Towing is the band-aid solution, but it's a broken leg problem that needs to be dealt with. What other things in that article came to?
Speaker 3:I kind of read it a little bit more in depth and I forget why she was there to pick up the car. But when we read these stories about these individuals who are in these situations and hers is a little bit more skewed because she got injured there's a situation that we're putting ourselves into. If we park in a spot that we're not supposed to park in, that gets the car picked up. But what is picked up by the news is that a poor, unfortunate person got their car picked up and the fee was too much or, in this situation, she was hurt. So it turns everybody into a victim, which is unfortunate. That's what I picked up on it. They just turned this young lady into a victim. She was. She got hit by somebody else driving out the car that was also doing the wrong thing right, the telling company really had no direct connection to that.
Speaker 3:They were just there doing their thing, in my opinion but that's the world we live in nowadays so, wes, I came across this other article about a tow truck driver being attacked with a hammer in a road rage incident. Looks like they were at the interstate of 17 and Greenway Road in Phoenix, arizona. The tow truck I don't know what caused the driver of the car to be so irate, but he attacked a tow truck operator with a hammer. The tow truck operator retaliated by using his truck and it went much worse after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, unfortunately it's a bad situation all the way around and things happen quickly. But you always have to remember de-escalation is the key. And also, you have a right to self-defense, but somebody has to be attacking you once that attack stops. I'm no expert on this, by any stretch of imagination, but you got to be very careful that you're not know. So, um, just de-escalation is the best, getting yourself out of the situation the best you can. Very unfortunate. Obviously, if a man's being attacked, he has a right to defend himself, but I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think this was a gray area here it was kind of bad enough that they both need to go to the hospital and from what. I read, once they're released from the hospital, they're both going to be detained by the police.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what leads me to believe that there's a question about when the attack ends and self-defense starts.
Speaker 2:And of course we have this horrible situation going on in New York City right now. That juries out on that situation. So I'm not trying to compare the two, but that's an example where somebody did something positive to prevent a situation. So hopefully this all sorts itself out. We pray for everybody involved. That's it for our news wrap for the day. Thanks to our listeners, We'll be back next week More news. I keep hearing everybody likes us reviewing the news, so we're going to focus on that more and more as we go forward. Thanks for listening. Be safe out there.