American Towing and Recovery Institute onThe Go
American Towing and Recovery Institute onThe Go
Mastering Modern Towing: Safety, Training, and Specialty Techniques
Michael Lard brings a refreshing perspective to the towing industry as he shares his journey from growing up in a towing family to owning Tom's 24-Hour Towing in Elkhart, Indiana. This third-generation tower has transformed his operation into a 16-truck fleet equipped with specialized machinery for handling complex recoveries.
What truly stands out in our conversation is Michael's innovative approach to rigging techniques. Working collaboratively with industry experts, he's developed custom configurations using Omega links and container links that significantly improve safety margins while increasing efficiency. These creative solutions demonstrate how thoughtful engineering can transform standard recovery practices into something extraordinary.
Michael challenges one of the industry's most entrenched mindsets: "dad and grandpa did it this way." While respecting tradition, he makes a compelling case that continuous learning is essential as vehicle technology rapidly evolves. With modern vehicles featuring composite materials, aluminum components, and sophisticated electronics, yesterday's methods alone aren't enough for today's challenges. As Michael wisely puts it, "Old skills are good skills. They just should not be your only skills."
Perhaps most remarkable is Michael's commitment to community collaboration. Rather than viewing nearby companies solely as competitors, he regularly works with towers up to 50 miles away, sharing specialized equipment and expertise. This collaborative spirit extends to training events, where local companies contribute resources to support educational opportunities throughout the region. It's a powerful reminder that when towing professionals work together, everyone benefits.
Looking for training opportunities? Join us for the Light and Medium Duty class hosted by Michael in Elkhart on September 6-7, or check out our full schedule of specialized classes happening nationwide. Whether you're focused on electric vehicles, heavy recovery, or rotator operations, we have the training you need to excel in today's demanding environment. Call 910-747-9000 or visit amtowri.org to secure your spot and take your skills to the next level.
you're on the train to success with April and Wes Wilburn. I'm DJ Harrington, the co-host, better known as the Toe Doctor. We're all on our way to the town of proper towing and recovery, along with our producer, chuck Camp, in the studio. Don't go to the town of woulda, coulda, shoulda. You coulda had done this. You should have done that. Listen every week to thought-provoking wisdom from great guests iTunes, pandora, stitcher, iheartmedia or the number one podcast, or maybe Amazon or wherever you get your podcasts. Turn in on Wednesday and be turned on all week long. If you are a state association and want your announcements or upcoming state association news announcements or upcoming state association news, or maybe a co-show that's coming up, let us know. Our podcast studio phone number is 706-409-5603. I'm proud to be part of a great team at the American Dorm Recovery Institute. Let's make 2025 our best year ever. I will turn it to April Loomis.
Speaker 2:DJ, thank you so much for the intro. I would say you're too nice, but I think it's appropriate. We're pretty nice people. Welcome one and all to Tony News Now and the Tony News Channel. We have some great stuff to talk about and we have a great interview coming up.
Speaker 1:We're getting ready for a busy season so I'm gearing up for that. Ed Wesley's last day here as an employee. He's going on to bigger and better things. Still going to help his dad a little bit, as needed. But that was a tough day emotionally yesterday. Still a tough day emotionally today, but glad he's moving forward. He's been a huge help here and I'm excited for what his future holds. Help here and and um, I'm excited for what his future holds. So besides that, I'm just focusing on uh. We're getting some activity for some of these classes going on. Got a little activity going on in consolidation corner. We got a great interview going on today. We're also we're talking to a uh trucking magazine about maybe trying to interact with the towing industry, with them. It's funny, our podcast a week ago was on the same subject and I really didn't see this thing coming.
Speaker 1:But out of left field what my son wesley one of the last things he did was found found a way to help us interact with this trucking magazine in a way to benefit us for selling some truck books that we have, in a way that's going to benefit them for gaining a little bit more information about the towing industry and again it kind of came out of that field that last week we interviewed cliff and joyce, partially out of kentucky, that are on a personal mission themselves.
Speaker 2:If you didn't hear that podcast, you really should listen to it we'll put a link down for it, um, when we push this out and just just. Let's go back to Wesley just one more time. Wesley and Kim are moving to Tennessee and we're excited to see them go, but it's something that they've wanted to do and they're looking forward to it and they're excited.
Speaker 2:Wesley is still working for us. It's gonna be on a part-time basis. He has been very instrumental at how, in the last few years, and probably especially since covid I would think he's worked for us before that too but getting helping us with the um, the marketing and the facebook, and he's learned how to do. Um, he's been very instrumental in these podcasts as far as, like, doing the back part of this and sending this to chuck, uh and and then chuck, you know, finishes it up and makes it, um, the magic happen. But if you've watched our commercials that we've done, if you've seen any of the powerpoints that we've done, what wesley has been, if not all of it- yes, he certainly has yes, and kim as well.
Speaker 2:Kim is going to be working for us part-time. Kim does more for us than I think. I even know that she does. There's just so many little things that she does and so many little pieces that she puts together and then I have the finished product when it's done. I don't always see all the intricate things that she does, but she's definitely going to be missed, as well as wesley, physically not having them here and also with them just going part-time as far as like what, what we're doing. So we love you, wesley and cam. We wish the best of luck to you in your, in your, new life, but we still got you part-time. So, west, I'm gonna, I'm gonna switch it back over to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, by you. We've got one consolidation corner to talk about. This one hits close to where I grew up as well. Owls Towing has been consolidated into the Valor Fleet Service Partners. Henry's Record Roadrunner in Northern Virginia had already consolidated together and now they've got OwLS that's joined together. Based in Falls Church, owls Towing has been a provider in North Virginia for over 30 years, Headquartered in Leesburg.
Speaker 1:Fleet Services is a leading towing hauling provider. Mid-atlantic Valor Services offers 24-7 heavy duty to light duty towing, parking enforcement, truck repair, etc. It's a significant bonus that these organizations are working together. I'm fired up to be teaming up with Valerie. These guys know business and care about doing things right, just like we always have. I've known Fred and Dave for a long time. There's a lot of mutual respect there, so we wish them the best going forward that was a direct quote from now yes, yes, it was.
Speaker 1:We wish them the best as they move forward and um any consolidators out there. You got information. Make sure you get us that press release so we can read it on air.
Speaker 2:So and I have a full disclosure on the henry trucker. That's my origin story, so to speak. That's where I came from.
Speaker 1:Well, this is all great news. I hope all our listeners are listening, so please hang tight and we'll be right back.
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Speaker 1:Welcome back listeners. Of course you know you're listening to the number one podcast in the towing recovery industry, the American Towing Recovery Institute podcast on the brand new Towing News Channel. Now I want to thank all of you. We have 20,000 listeners and growing mightily. This is fantastic. Wes and April Wilburn have done a phenomenal job and the team there have done fantastic. I want to tell all of you please continue listening. We're available on Spotify, itunesunes, pandora, stitcher, iheart media, amazon or wherever you get your podcast. So, without further ado, we got a great one today. I'll pass it on over to april and wes wilbur michael ward, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'd like to introduce yourself to us or to everybody else. You're a good friend to us, but I want everybody else to get to know you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thanks for having me on Mike Ward from Tom's 24-Hour Towing Inc. In Elkhart, indiana. For those that don't know, I've been around the industry my whole life. For those that don't know, I've been around the industry my whole life and I bought out my boss that I worked for for about six years, four years ago, april.
Speaker 2:Michael, how did you get started in the industry? What brought you into it? What brought you into it?
Speaker 4:I grew up into it. My grandfather was in southern Michigan in an outcard himself, and my dad worked for Mike, who I bought out here at Tom's from the late 80s to about 98. And my uncle, steve, owned his own company for 37 years Steve's Auto in LaGrange, indiana about 31 of these.
Speaker 1:So you're third generation then.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:All right. And you said for four years you've owed Thomas 24.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And you bought that. You worked for Tom Stoncilovic for six years before that, Mike.
Speaker 4:Stoncilovic, yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, mike, yes, and I know he's a great fella too. Uh, he really is yes how many trucks do you have in your fleet now?
Speaker 4:uh, we're up to 16 trucks um, plus other pieces of equipment, from skid loaders to telehandlers to excavator now um, we pretty much got about everything yeah, I know, whatever I talk to you, you're either you're either on a job or you just got back from one.
Speaker 2:You guys, it's pretty busy, and I think you do some specialty work too, don't you?
Speaker 4:yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:I think you called me your custom craft clean the other day. When you call me to order something, I'm gonna I'm not going to use that title too much but, um, because you like that specialty stuff, I know that you do specialty jobs. Give us an example of something that you had to do where you had to apply some kind of special technique to it.
Speaker 4:I mean we do a lot of stuff, just like everybody else does. I think the specialty side of it comes from putting my head together with Wes on some chain assemblies and stuff that we've come up with. In my opinion, that makes things safer and more economical for ourselves and the customer because, as we all know, time is money.
Speaker 2:And if you can get safety, economical and convenience at the same time, that's the golden ticket, isn't it? Yes, Michael, I know that you do a lot of specialty work. Give me a good example of how you've used some of this rigging and done a reconfiguration and applied it to one of your jobs.
Speaker 4:About a year or two ago me and Wes put our heads together for a better rigging piece, in my opinion, of taking that Omega link on chain with a self-locking hook, and we use those for, of course, recoveries and stuff. But it also works well on precast structures. You can use a container link and to put that through the omega link and then you can make a bridle to use that and in my opinion it's safer because it does not wedge itself in there to reduce any working load limit, but it also is. You can use half inch chains or three-quarters seven inch rim swings, so your capacity is way higher. So therefore takes a safety factor way higher than what the rigging is rated for that you buy to actually lift pretty cast yeah, the idea of putting the major.
Speaker 1:We kind of brainstorm together a while back. Great idea. I really loved how you took it to the next level with a precast stuff that you were picking and using that container link in a very creative manner, writing that Omega link and another part of that whole thing was the container link and the Omega link were in a slightly funny position but you had all your grade 100 happens so perfectly straight, exactly how it's supposed to use.
Speaker 1:So you other stuff that was in a slightly funny position has a much greater working load limit. So you know, putting a little sallow on it was it wasn't a big deal. I thought it was very ingenious way you put that together and I was very thankful you sent me the pictures on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I totally agree. And what we're doing with it, in my opinion, the way they're designed to be in a container and you're lifting basically 90 degrees to start with, I think it's even less stress than even doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that. We've got to take a quick break. But after the break let's come back. I want you to talk a little bit about trading at your company, Okay, Thanks to talk a little bit about trading at your company.
Speaker 3:Okay, traa, the Injured Drivers Fund and legislation that makes all of us safer are what makes this industry special. Ina Towing supports all of this and more. When there is a need, gay Rochester is always one of the first to come forward and ask how can I help? The American Towing and Recovery Institute is honored to have the support of the INA Towing Network. Together we all make a difference. Ina Towing Network simplified solutions, superior service.
Speaker 2:For electric and other alternative fuel vehicles. We have developed an app that gives you all the manufacturers 411 for when that 911 happens. Whether you are a fire tow or police, we got you covered. To find the EV Clever app, go to your Apple or Google Play store for a 30-day free trial. We also offer the National Tow Operator Certification, an independently sourced virtual testing program covering light duty, heavy duty, electric and alternative fuel vehicle.
Speaker 1:Welcome back listeners. This is the brand new Towing News Channel with the American Towing Recovery Institute, wes and April Wilburn, dj Harrington as the co-host. Really, I just introduced the people, but we're listening from Michael Lark, who is from Elkhart, indiana, up and comes 24-hour towing and I want to remind all our listeners, elkhart, indiana, is really the RV capital of the world. Indiana is really the RV capital of the world and they are certified operators to ungeck a lot of this equipment. So you know, michael's in a great place.
Speaker 2:Welcome back, Michael. I know we're going to go into training and we're doing an upcoming event at your place September 6th and 7th for a light and medium beauty class and we're really looking forward to being there. And you've hosted training with us before.
Speaker 4:Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:And I know that Wes is going to ask you some questions about training. But, number one, thank you for having us back, and also want to thank your family for putting up with us too, because we're a handful and I know that turns our lives upside down, too, when we take your weekend away from that. It turns our lives upside down too, when we take your weekend away from that. So thank your family.
Speaker 4:And if you want to give a shout out to your wife and your kids, now's the time to do it. Yeah, they are my biggest fans. It's not always easy and it's not always the most popular thing, but they are always there for me and anybody in this industry understands what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's a very critical part of success too, is that good family structure and that good connectivity too, and I think that can't be said enough. So thanks, thanks, thanks for putting up with us. We appreciate it. Now, michael, you're supposed to give a shout out and at least say love you guys, or something, okay, All right.
Speaker 4:Thank you, amber and my beautiful three children. I wouldn't be able to do this, or have the willpower, without them cheering me on every day.
Speaker 1:So talk a little bit about training as a record operator how has it affected you and also as a business owner. Then we'll get into talking a little bit about the class going on. But talk a little bit about how your belief on training and how it's affected your career.
Speaker 4:My opinion on it is as you go to anything outside the towing industry whether it's a lawyer, a doctor, somebody that works on your furnace or your car nobody just gets up every day or one day and says, I'm going to do this. They have to get that training, they have to perfect those skills, whether it's from somebody else teaching them, a family member or going to an actual institution, whatever it may be. I don't like the attitude or the mindset of well, dad and grandpa did it this way and it's always worked. That's what we need to do. I totally disagree. I mean, I respect my forefathers, I respect the people that came up before us, but there is always a better way and there's a safer way and a more economical way, and we're never gonna get there unless you do push the training and everyone works together to instill that inside of everybody's their mindset while we're talking about classes, mean Jeff, our part of the Cardinal towing legacy group.
Speaker 1:We're going to do a seminar on Thursday afternoon on the subject of consolidation. We're going to talk a little bit about past, present, present and future of consolidation and what's going on with it and how it's affecting the towing industry. So we're looking forward to that. Jeff's a very powerful individual that speaks very wisely. He's a very just short time I've been around him, I've got a lot of respect for him, how he handles things, how he looks at things. I'm excited about the seminar we'll be doing there in Chattanooga on Thursday. It's part of their seminar package program and of course we've got the two-day class Thursday and Friday. We're going to be in Wichita, kansas, on September the 4th. That's a Thursday evening. That's a sponsored dinner and an evening electric and alternative fuel vehicle class. That Saturday and Sunday that's September the 6th and 7th we're doing one of the only let me back up the only light medium class in the middle of the country will be at Elkhart, indiana, for a two-day class. Tom's telling us there's hosting, though is do a great job.
Speaker 1:Following weekend, october 3rd through the 5th, niagara falls slash buffalo, new york, a three-day extreme heavy duty class. Myself and jt will be teaching a class and we're supposed to have a surprise instructor going to stop by and help teach the class. The following week will be the chattanooga will be it october 19th and 10th will be the chat in chattanooga today, heavy duty that is a class you have to register for and pay for Weekend. After that, october 16th, on the Friday, we'll be in Kansas City for a one-day light duty. On the Saturday, sunday, that's the 17th and 18th of October we'll be in Kansas City with a heavy-duty tow and recovery class, lake Station. The following weekend, october 25th to 26th, two-day heavy duty rotator class. Then we'll be down in Enterprise, alabama. November 7th and Fridays, a one-day light duty on a.
Speaker 1:Saturday, sunday that's the 8th and the 9th. It's a two-day heavy duty tow and recovery class. We'll be in Lake Charles Lake Charles, louisiana, connie's favorite city, will be down there in the 15th, or one day late duty. It's November the 15th this is working in conjunction with the tone of every professional Louisiana. And on the the 16th will be in Lake Charles, again with a one-day heavy duty session. Two-day class on Saturday a light duty. On Sunday, a heavy duty, one-day class. For two days total. You can attend one or the other, you don't have to attend both. Naval, florida, december the 6th and the 7th. Two-day light and medium duty, the only other light and medium duty we're doing anywhere in the country at this point. First weekend of December, december 6th and the 7th, in Naples, florida, and rest in hope, post in class. Give me a call. We've got some more dates we can put on. We've got crew of instructors that are anxious to get out there and share knowledge with y'all.
Speaker 2:Also another thing, and then Wes is going to talk more about training. The other thing with that is doing what somebody else done in the past. They were in the past, they were the cutting edge, they were the risk takers, they're the ones who honed their skills, while we would not want to do the same thing, to carry that legacy on. I think I don't know if that does it justice to that history and that legacy. So that's, I think I don't know if that does it justice to that history and that legacy, but that's, I think, another reason why training is essential. Number one, it's for safety, but number two, it's carrying on the value and skills that you bring to the table whenever you're out there on the side of the road.
Speaker 4:I 100% agree.
Speaker 1:Old skills are good skills. They just should not be your only skills, yep, one of the reasons training is so important, whether it's technician or tow and recovery. Modern vehicles are changing, have changed and are continued to change all the time, and understanding the construction, how the vehicles change as far as construction goes, and things like that are becoming more and more important. We all know that even a little mark or a little blemish on a vehicle can cause a bunch of money and a lot of heartache at the same time.
Speaker 4:Very true, and the equipment that we're running every day. I mean it was easier to scratch an old home's record that was made out of steel, that you probably wouldn't be able to find, but nowadays we've got composite bodies, we've got aluminum bodies, plastic bodies you know what I mean and trucks that cost more than homes that we'll ever live in. You know there's more at stake than what there used to be. That's right, and it's also different stake than what there used to be.
Speaker 1:That's right, and it's also different attitudes about stuff like that as well.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, a big part of it is the vehicles that we're dealing with. Towing are so much different. I saw something on social media the other night where they towed a truck. The towing company towed a truck just a few miles but they left the drive cap in it and the truck they were towing caught fire, was fully ablaze. That's one of the main differences of modern trucks and things you need to learn about to prevent situations like that. So you guys are hosting our Light and Medium duty class. Talk a little bit about that, michael, if you would. Why do you go through the hassle of hosting a class? Let's start with that, michael Nutterfield.
Speaker 4:Well, it's like anything if somebody doesn't stand up and make an effort to do it, who's going to do it and how is it ever going to happen? Well, no matter what it is I mean, you could ask my local competitors. I'm not shy from being at the front of the line and speaking my mind and pushing for things to be better. I've never been much of a follower.
Speaker 2:Even if you're not a follower, you definitely lead by example because you do step up for these trainings and you do host them, and you do put up with us when you're not a follower. You definitely lead by example because you do step up for these trainings and you do host them and you do put up with us when you're doing it. So follow a leader, whichever one you may want to do. And sometimes it's good to follow, as long as you can find a good leader, and you are a good leader.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's what. I don't mean any disrespect by it or anything, mean any disrespect by it or anything. But somebody's got to push for this and even the old school guys to perfect their skills and these young guys that are wanting to get involved with this, to get them to where they are, from where they are to where they need to be. I mean you have to put forth the effort, you have to give up those weekends, you have to give up that time and make sure that you're making it happen for them.
Speaker 1:And this is a team effort. You work with other companies as well, don't you?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:Do you want to elaborate on that, Michael?
Speaker 4:We actually have several companies around the area. We go as far as 40, 50 miles away to help other towing companies, whether it be for transport stuff or heavy recovery, airbags or dollies. I mean, we help anybody we can or anybody that calls upon us, as long as they're going to be honest and do things the right way. That's just what I believe is helping people. But if it goes the other way, then you know. You know how that goes. But yeah, we have a strong relationship with a lot of people and it shows you know when things are needed they call upon us to go help because they know the kind of people we are and I am and what my company stands for.
Speaker 1:In reference to the training, you did work with other towing companies in that aspect as well.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah, anytime we put a training class on, there's always local companies that you know for. As soon as they hear it, I always get a phone call do you want to sponsor? You know food or drinks? Do you need a wrecker there? Do you need his help? I mean, there's always phone calls, especially from Truestone and Mark at Newcomer Service in Napanee, indiana. He's always willing to help, even if his guys are not even attending the class, they're always willing to help and lend a hand anytime they can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one of the great things about that area is everybody works there real well and helps share the duties and truly they've been wonderful over the years sponsoring meals, equipment, sending students. You know you can't do it without the students, so we definitely appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I want to say one thing about Trish's coming. Travis, seeing it on the schedule, called me to confirm that we were doing the class and this next phone call is going to be to you to see if you needed anything from him that I was there directly at all. Whatever, and their office bunch helping you sponsor some of the meals and some of the food that's there too. So big shout out to truth tell me.
Speaker 1:Yes, so we're going to be at the Oslo fire department. Is that correct? Yes, we'll be using the Oslo fire department.
Speaker 4:Is that correct? Yes, we'll be using the Oslo fires training room at the fire station for the book part of things and then we'll be at our location for the hands-on part of it and sponsor lunch both days correct yes, sir yeah, the hospitality that part of the world is always extraordinary well, it can't go wrong in the midwest, and midwest knows how to treat you now, where can they call to get you know?
Speaker 1:can you take some more people in or no? Are you sold out?
Speaker 2:we're not sold out yet. We still do have some seats. You can call here, 910-747-9000, or you can go on the website. Amtowriorg, You're the one to sign up. I'll handle you directly. If you call me, or if you just want to go on the website, you can do it that way too.
Speaker 1:Wes, I'll tell you one thing I like about Michael Lord is that he lives in Indiana, he belongs to his association, he belongs to TRAA and he supports the touring museum. So there's three reasons why I like the guy.
Speaker 2:Definitely shows the level of investment, doesn't it DJ?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah yeah. And he believes in you guys and you're, I believe, one of the best training companies out there.
Speaker 2:So you know that plays on both supporters little supporter and we believe that about him as well.
Speaker 1:Dj yeah he's a great guy and that's coming from the old toe back there, michael. One guy yesterday, when we were doing a podcast for Wes, all the guys kept saying are you the guy with the white jacket who walks around as a doctor?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am, that's our DJ, DJ is the. What is it called again?
Speaker 1:Well, they call me the co-doctor Okay, but in recycling business. They call me the cardie Doctor. Okay, but in recycling business they call me the Cardiologist.
Speaker 2:Hold on a second Hold on. You have another name In the.
Speaker 3:Toe Podcast world oh no, don't even say that now.
Speaker 2:You're the Toe and Godfather, because they all go to you, yep, you are the Godfather of the Tome Podcast.
Speaker 1:Although there's only one or two left anymore. I did hear we should give respect to the Tome Business Podcast. I feel like they've covered all the subjects that they can cover.
Speaker 2:They quit broadcasting, so give them much respect it's a hard gig to pull off as well as, so I'm going to shoot our own horn here just for one second we're closing in our 200 podcast.
Speaker 2:we're going to it for maybe two. That's, I think, substantial. What's in DJ, then, these last few months have let me come along with them and also be a part of it, so I also appreciate that, and we have 20,000 loyal listeners out there who are listening to us, so to me that's substantial. You guys did most of it. I can't really tell, and so I can just take some credit too. I'm going to take the credit for it, but you guys mostly did it. You DJ Harrington and Russell Wilborn are the 20,000 people that are listening to this thing. That's substantial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but April, I have to tell you in the podcast world, if you did not have Kim Wesley and all those teen people at the American Zoning Recovery Institute that does the social media blast.
Speaker 1:People always want to know how did you guys do it? It's because you do so much social media and I've never in my life here I'm at a toe show in Chattanooga and, michael, I have to tell you this Some person I'm talking to a vendor and a person comes over and says I know that voice and I said what she says. I know that voice and I said what she said. I know that voice. You're the co-host with Wes Wilburn and I'm like what are you talking about, lady? I got my white jacket on, I got my doctor outfit on and they knew me by my voice Michael Arnn and I sat there going okay, I've heard everything now Because it's really something and I really appreciate what you do, michael, because by you supporting the training, you make sure that our loved ones that go out in the morning kiss their loved ones goodbye, he or she get in a vehicle, work the white line and will safely come home.
Speaker 1:It's because it's people like Michael Lark and Tom's 24-hour towing and L-Cart that provides the training for the people around you to do that. So I tip my hat to you, michael. You've got the right attitude. You got the right philosophy and I really appreciate what you do for the industry. Thank you, sir, and likewise all right.
Speaker 2:So September 6th and 7th for a late medium duty in Elkhart, indiana. If you need the phone number, someone else seven, four, seven nine, or you can go into amtoriorg and Michael. We'll see you in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4:Sounds good.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being on, michael. You got any closing?
Speaker 4:comments. Stay safe and shoot for the best.
Speaker 1:Well said. Thank you, michael, we'll see you soon. Thank you.