How A Myrtle Beach Towing Owner Pushes For A Police Tow Rate Increase

A tow contract that hasn’t changed since 2012 sounds harmless until you price a new truck, renew insurance, fuel up, and try to hire a solid driver who will do the job safely at 2 a.m. That’s the pressure behind our conversation with returning guest Rick Rayner from Quality Towing and Service Center in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

We walk through how police authorized tow rates can get stuck for a decade while the cost of doing business keeps climbing. Rick explains what “max fees” do to real-world scenes, why “just absorb it” is not a plan, and how rate neglect eventually shows up as slower response, older equipment, and a harder time keeping skilled operators. He also shares what it takes to get traction locally: showing up, building relationships, and being willing to be the squeaky wheel when everyone else stays quiet.

You’ll hear a clip of Rick speaking directly to city council, laying out the basics any municipality should understand about towing and recovery services: capital investment, liability exposure, wages, and the need for sustainable pricing to keep roads safe and traffic moving. We also touch on practical tools, including how he used AI to help draft a more polished statement before delivering it in his own voice.

We close on the human side of the towing industry by honoring three lives lost this week and reading “The Dash,” a reminder that our work is about more than invoices and contracts. Subscribe for more towing industry news and interviews, share this episode with your crew, and leave a review so more towers can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And DJ Health Update

SPEAKER_05 0:06

Welcome when we're all to the Towing News Now Podcast. A podcast dedicated to insightful interviews, news stories that affect the towing industry, and a weekly spotlight on towing supplies and equipment. We have two hosts. One of them has been in the business 40 years. The other is his charming wife of many years, who also is a general manager of product supply. No other than Wes and April Wilburn. Wes and April, I turn it over to you.

SPEAKER_07 0:42

Thank you, DJ, as always, for two times. I appreciate your time, work, and your thoughts. How is DJ doing today?

SPEAKER_05 0:51

Well, I want to tell all of our 20 plus thousand listeners prayers work. I went in for a minor surgery on my prostate, and I landed up spending 21 days in the same hospital. I transferred to a rehab center, and then on my 24th day, returned home where I am right now enjoying a wonderful sunny day in Georgia. And I want to thank everyone for their prayers. I had two surgeries. I'm doing fine. And they say it's going to take four to six weeks for a slow, slow total recovery. But the four to six weeks is minor. So everything is fine. And I cannot thank all of our 20,000 plus listeners, uh, and all of the fine people that are out there in the touring and recovery industry, their friends, their families, their church members. Uh I sure do appreciate the prayers and the well-wishes. And West and April, and of course, our dear guest today, Rick. Everyone is just a wonderful group, and I sure do appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

We do love you, DJ, and we we have had prayers for you, and you sound phenomenally great today.

SPEAKER_05 2:19

Yeah, I I feel good, April, and it's it's nice because Monday, I want everyone to know. Monday, I did my five and a half hour infusion. I get infusions once a month. They're five and a half hours. Um I'll let Rick know in case he wants to send me a check. They're on my cost, cost the hey Rick, it cost the insurance company eleven thousand dollars, and it cost the old man here, the toe doctor, one thousand dollars every infusion. Every month, every month, one thousand. But look at the difference, it just keeps me going. Yeah. So it's it's worth the one thousand.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

You look amazing, DJ.

Spring Equipment Specials And Shop Work

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Now you're talking, buddy. But I want I want to thank Wes and April and Rick and everyone, all of our listeners, because uh I I I believe God answers prayers. And so um, and of course, later in our podcast, we're gonna make comments of some of our loved ones that have not made it. So I'll pass it back on over to Wes and April. So, how's April today?

SPEAKER_03 3:42

April is really good. We have definitely ramped up our equipment sales, and we're just coming along for throwing stuff up on Facebook every day for specials. We've got the website up and running. So we're just doing, you know, better than ever. It's the springtime of the year. We know you need stuff for your trucks, you know. So give us a call, 9107479000, or visit our website, telling equipmentdirect.org.

Rick Rayner And The Contract Problem

SPEAKER_07 4:10

All right. We're definitely working with a lot of equipment. I've been uh out in the workshop, working up from different chain assemblies. Also focusing on uh messing uh straps to rigging. We've got a bunch of neat ideas that we're putting out there for that kind of stuff. That's definitely keeping me busy this early spring. So we have a returning guest. Some of y'all may have heard him heard him on a previous podcast, Rick Rayner, quality teller at Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, uh here with us today. He's gonna tell us what's going on with uh what he's doing about a rate increase with police and whatnot. Rick, for the folks who didn't hear you before, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself and talk tell us a little bit about your background?

SPEAKER_04 4:59

Right. Uh um I'm Rick Rayner. Um we own Quality Towing and Sarah Center in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. Been in been around almost 40 years now. November will be 40. Um originally from New Jersey up north, where DJ's from. Friends with his family for a long time. Yes. Um he's an amazing guy. Um we um we do a lot of different things here in Myrtle Beach. Um, very involved in the TRAA and several different organizations and so on, like that.

SPEAKER_07 5:33

Um, recovery professionals of South Carolina, correct, Rick?

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Correct. I'm a state representative for the South Carolina Towing Uh Association.

SPEAKER_07 5:47

Yeah, I've I've got a soft flat in my heart for for you folks. You all uh gave me a lifetime membership uh to the association for the work we did, the cross-training work we did down there over the years.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

You did an amazing job, Wes, and we thank you for that. I've always had great respect for you since I met you back in a long, long time ago, 1995.

unknown 6:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:10

But but um I I keep politically involved here in the city of Myrtle Beach. Um, attend events, I donate a lot of money and a lot of my time and equipment for different events. So uh been kind of sitting a lot of ground for uh, you know, we we're under a contract here in the city of Myrtle Beach, and unfortunately they went from one contractor to four contractors back in uh 2012. It might be a little bit even earlier than that.

SPEAKER_07 6:42

But um the police authorized tow.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Correct. City of Myrtle Beach, police authorized tow, not not the non-consensual stuff.

SPEAKER_07 6:52

And that's all that involves. Doesn't it involve city vehicles or anything?

SPEAKER_04 6:56

It does. It involves with the city fire department and the um police vehicles and anything the city owns. They own a we're a pretty big city and they own uh several pieces of equipment. Seem like they always have issues and problems. But um back in 2012, we all signed into a contract of a rate of 160 per light duty toe. And not by my choice, I was pulled by uh the other three. Um, I was told if I don't bid in the same price, that I wouldn't be on the list. So I was forced to uh bid$250 per tow on a heavy truck, and that's these are max fees, too. So it didn't allow us anything else or any kind of situation. Now it is built in or known as it's that's one hour's worth of work, whatever you gotta bring out there and do. So it's it's kind of really makes things hard and get it has our hands tied. You know, for years now I've been trying to work on this and try to put things together, and no one will listen. And we had a mayor that was in for about eight years, very democratic uh mayor, and they wouldn't listen in the towing industry, what was going on, and and how costs have rise since then. And this year we uh new mayor took over, police chief retired. Uh she's been around about 12 years.

SPEAKER_07 8:32

Did you support the new mayor politically?

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Yes, oh, for sure. He worked for the city for many, many um years as a spokesman for Myrtle Beach. He and there was uh four candidates, and he was the best choice of the candidate. Um, you know, we had kind of a personal relationship together, and um, you know, anytime he needs something, he he knew who to call. It was great to see him get in there. Um, you know, we supported him, you know, donations to his campaign and things of that sort. So he was willing to listen, and uh he said, you know, once he gets in, or if he gets in, he'd be looking out for you know tow the tow companies, make sure we take care of the situation. Now, as far as I know, uh I'm the one only one out of the four that have done anything like this. Um, the others kind of stay stay quiet, and they don't want to uh stir the pot, they feel, you know, in retaliation, possibly losing the contract or something like that. But this is not all about stirring the pot. This is about what's what's due to us or what what we do or what we do every day on the road, keeping the roadway safe, open, and keeping the traffic flowing. And it's it it it just it makes it very difficult.

SPEAKER_07 9:59

Which I thought you did a good job of bringing up during you uh when you address the city council.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Yeah, I appreciate that. Um, so you'll probably hear a little clip here um of me up in front of city council. Uh so we also we had the police chief just retire, like I said, um after about 12 years. She would listen, but it would seem like it went in one ear and out the other. And um, so she retired now. We got an interim police chief, and he's a little bit on board, he's on board with what's going on. Um, you know, we got we got to make some changes here in the city. That's you know, we're starting to get a bad rap for crime and things like that here, and a lot of problems. It seems like a lot of people bring their problems to the beach, and um, and then it it shows every Friday and Saturday night here. So I got my chance to uh, you know, after several attempts, failed attempts with the city manager and his assistant managers. Now that the mayor took over, he uh getting the green light for us to get a day in front of them. I was able to get on the agenda.

Break And Where To Listen

SPEAKER_01 11:16

So speaking of agendas, I've got we've got to do a quick break, and then after the break, uh we'd like you to hang around and we listen to the present and talk about TRAA, the injured driver's fund, and legislation that makes all of us safer or what makes this industry special. INA towing supports all of this and more. When there is a need, Gay Rochester is always one of the first to come forward and ask, how can I help? The American Towing and Recovery Institute is honored to have the support of the INA Towing Network. Together, we all make a difference. INA Towing Network Simplified Solutions, Superior Service. Welcome back, listeners.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

You know you're listening to the Towing News Now Podcast, the number one podcast in the industry. We're available, now remember, we're available on Spotify, iTunes, Pandora, Stitcher, iHeartMedia, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcast. Now, without further ado, let us go right on back to Wes and April Wilburn and our great guest Rick.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Rick, we're uh glad to have you back um after the break, and this definitely emphasizes how being involved in local government um is much more important than being involved in national government. Not that that's not important because it is presidential elections are important, but your local area where you live at is what you live in day to day. So at the break, we were talking about you being a friend of the city council and doing your presentation.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Yes, yes. So it you know, local governments are very tough. Um they uh they they hope, you know, they they listen to you and then hope you go away. You know, sometimes you get places and sometimes you don't. Um you know, it's all about the political uh dollar and the and the votes, the uh local uh they're voting.

SPEAKER_03 13:31

So it's also the squeaky wheel gets it well, and sometimes you've got to be the squeaky wheel.

SPEAKER_04 13:37

You're right, you're right. I I'm never to I'm never to type the back down from anything, and uh um, you know, I I always look to the future or look, you know, beyond that. You know, we always say you don't look in the mirror in the rearview mirror, it never gets it up to you. So uh just I keep going forward. But uh I've been working on this, working on working on it, and uh they gave me my day um on a non-agenda open form to open the door to get on the uh main agenda, which will be in two weeks. And with the first, that'll be your first reading. We gotta go to two readings before it becomes law. So um, you know, I give a long speech and uh it took took me a while to put it together, and I'm gonna say thank God to chat Pete to do whatever PT. I said, I don't even know that stuff. I'm a little uh I'm a little uh old, so but these kids are using it and AI and all this stuff. So uh I kept plugging in and plugging in things I wanted to say, and then it it it helped me write a pretty good speech to uh go up in front of them with uh more professional, and um I think it hit it hit hard, it hit you know strong to the city council.

Rick’s City Council Rate Speech

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Well, I go to AI a lot also, but what AI can't do for you is what you did in front of that city council. And that's give your own personal attach and your own personal attitude to it. So I think we're gonna play that clip right now of you being in front of um the city council yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Appreciate being here. Take a little time. Uh some of you may know me, some don't. My name is Rick Rayner. Um I'm representing here at Quality Towing and Service Center in Myrtle Beach. Uh I'm also state representative for the SDDRA, which is South Carolina Towing and Recovery Association. I also sit on the board for the TRAA, which is our federal association in Washington, D.C. Uhly we have proudly served the city of Myrtle Beach for almost 40 years. In addition to our towing operation, we also own and maintain two storage facilities within the city limits. We are deeply invested in this company, not just as a business, but as a long-term partner in keeping our roadway safe and our city running smoothly. The rates we are operating under today have changed, has not changed since 2012. That's over a decade without adjustments, while the cost of doing business has steadily and significantly increased. Since that time, the price of tow trucks have risen dramatically. Equipment that once was affordable now requires major capital investment just to stay in service. Insurance costs in our industry continue to climb year after year, driven by liability and risk exposure. And just as important, employee wages have increased as they should. We are committed to hiring and retaining professional quality drivers, but to do that, we must offer comprehensive pay in today's market. At this time, we look around us, we see that rates have already been adjusted elsewhere to reflect these realities. As of 2026, Florian County, South Carolina High Patrol, and the Flory County Sheriff's Department Office towing rates are set at 272. This is a clear benchmark that reflects the current cost providing towing services in our area. Meanwhile, the City of Myrtle Beach is still operating under rates established back in 2012. That gap is not just uh noticeable, it is unsustainable. We are not asking for anything unreasonable, but we are asking for a fair adjustment to reflect today's economy and reality. The current pricing structure no longer supports the actual cost of providing safe, reliable, and professional telling services. Without an update to these rates, it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain the level of service the city expects and deserves. Ultimately, that affects the quality and reliability of service provider to the residents, the visitors, and property owners in the city. We've been here for four decades grown with the city. We've invested in the city and support the city. We want to continue doing that. But we need a price structure that allows us to operate sustainable and responsible. I respect ask the city to review and update the towing rates to reflect today's costs and ensure that the business like ours can continue serving Myrtle Beach at the level it should it deserves. Thank you for your time and consideration.

SPEAKER_06 18:51

Thank you, Rick. We did talk about this at the workshop at last week. So we it is coming to council with an update on the rates. Um and some improved signage for the public's benefit as well. So we this is on our radar and should have addressed it sooner than on the first generation.

SPEAKER_04 19:14

Um started turning over to the second generation.

SPEAKER_06 19:18

So uh they look forward to continuing serving the city. But this may be on the next agenda, Fox? I don't know about the next agenda, but it'll be simple. Yeah, it it is coming back. We're we're aware of the need to do that. So thank you. Okay, that's okay. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 19:39

Let me let me ask you one question. Um in your mind, what would be a reasonable increase? Well, the South Carolina Higher Patrol has done um a lot of research, and with our organization at South Carolina Association, uh, we've been along and followed with them and been at several meetings of how they come to that conclusion. Um they've done and pulled figures from around the state and they go on an average. And and what they've been doing is giving us a three percent raise every year um to sustain the uh rising cost of uh uh trucks and insurance and things of that sort. We just made a big investment last year. I know you all did with your two million dollar fire trucks. We also invested nine hundred thousand dollars in a heavy record, so the heavy record, two Totos, two million dollars. We we we hold four million dollar insurance covered.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Thanks, Rick.

SPEAKER_06 20:36

Would it be possible? I know we had some rates when we talked about it during the workshop for Cory County, Conway, North Creek, Highway Patrol. I'd be curious to see if what other cities across South Carolina are charging. If we can get a charge where we are. I do have a copy.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

I can give you all of the rates around here. Um so if you want to make copy and pass it to the case.

What A Fair Increase Looks Like

SPEAKER_06 21:01

I I think we got those from last week. Yes, we'll we'll get an update, but it is coming back to council sooner rather than later. Great. We'd love to have the input and be uh a seat on a table to talk about. Thank you very much. Thank you guys. All right.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

So, Rick, you said your last significant correct me if I'm wrong about this, was in 2012, and every year since then you've gotten about a three percent. No. No.

SPEAKER_04 21:30

No, no, no. So the the highway patrol has done that, and the county has followed along with that. But um, you know, and it's not um those dates are different in the city, but the those rates have always been higher than the city rates. Um it's the city that's been holding out since 2012 on this stuff price, and just gotten nowhere um to absorb any of that. Now, there there was a little bit more. To that conversation before they finished up. One of the city councilwomen made a comment. I can totally understand. I believe her statement was she can totally understand what the price of fuel these days must be killing you.

SPEAKER_07 22:16

So another one of them said something to the effect of we need to do this sooner rather than later because of the current price of gas. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:26

That is the mayor, right? That was the comment from the mayors. Um we had about three or four council people um ask questions and agree. Um so it sounded like we, you know, it's always it sounds good, and I think we got somewhere, but you know, you never know what happens behind doors.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

You don't behind closed doors. I'm gonna put something in perspective as far as what your meeting was and what you're asking for. Our good friend AI, ChatGPT, or you're gonna call it. Um, I've just looked this up since 2012. The um cost of living increase from that date to now is up to 43%. You know, 40 prices have risen 43% from 2012 to now. You feel that with buying tires, um repairs on your trucks, even uniforms, buying the uniforms for the guys, all that stuff adds up. People don't understand that. Gas prices is definitely a factor. We're feeling that more than ever. But over the 2012 to now, you felt the effects the whole way through with everything that you bought. Um and insurance, insurance is skyrocketed for you guys.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

Oh, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yeah, these are things that people don't consider when they're looking at you you guys.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Yeah, most, you know, most guys in the in in their own companies or anybody, they they gotta know what their bottom line is and where they're profiting if they're not profiting. Um, you know, it's one thing we've always done a great, I great job in doing, you know, if I need a question immediately, you know, my in-house people can tell me immediately um where we're at. You know, and some people don't even know where they're at with their business. If they're they don't if they're gonna if they're gonna make it to tomorrow or gonna make it next week or make it next year. Um it's it's sad. Um you you know, you always gotta spend money to make money, so you you got to know your costs and and where you where you're making it or not.

Break And Listener Hotline Plug

SPEAKER_07 24:34

Yeah, that's a fact. Um, absolutely. We need to go ahead and take another quick break. You hang around for a third session, yes, sir. All right. Uh we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

For electric and vehicles, we have developed an app that gives you all the effects for the line for when that's what happens. Whether you are fire, power or flight, we've got you covered.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

We also offer the National Tell Operator Certification, an independently sourced virtual testing program covering light duty, heavy-duty, electric, and alternative fuel vehicles.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

Welcome back, listeners. You know you're listening to the Tolling News Now podcast. I want to thank each and every one of the 20,000 plus listeners. Remember to like, review, and share everywhere. And if you always want to hear a professional like Rick on this podcast, by all means, you dial the hotline number right here in the podcast studio. 706-409-5603. And Wes and April Wilburn and myself, the tow doctor, will do their very, very best to have them on this podcast. If you're a state association that has news, by all means, let us know.

Remembering Three Towers We Lost

SPEAKER_07 26:19

Thank you, DJ. Appreciate it. Umfortunately, we've had uh three different deaths in the towing industry this week that kind of have impacted me. Um the first one was an operator out of Northern Virginia, just a couple years older than me. Uh, I remember when I started towing in 1982, he was one of Henry's main drivers. Uh original Henry. His name was uh Robert Glaze. He went by Bubba, very passionate about old pictures and things like that in the uh from the towing industry. He started a Facebook group, passed and present towers, and put a lot of act a lot of interest into it. He had uh had a kidney replacement, I believe it was, a few years ago. His wife gave her kidney to him. So he had uh had really survived some tough medical times, and uh, but unfortunately he he passed away at the beginning of the week.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

And I'm gonna say this one thing about Bubba that I've never I never met him, but I worked for Henry's years after he did, and his name, his name. So I'm I'm gonna um Harry Hummelstein is used to work for Wreckmaster, and Wes worked with him years back. Um, and Wes was very fond of him, and Wes may talk about that um in a little bit. But he he um was from Maryland, he worked for Wreckmaster before that. He had worked for a company called Durban Towing in Hagerstown, and apparently was in a lot of like driving competitions before the recmaster days. He was real big in the competing and driving competitions, took that very seriously, took the whole towing industry very seriously, and that's how we entered into Recmaster, and that's where Wes had met him. Um, he's predeceased by his wife. They were married for 61 years, and I think that is uh a phenomenal, just a phenomenal thing. More I'm not a young chicken, but that's more years than I've been alive, 61 years, and that just makes me just so emotional, and and what a wonderful life you lived if you could be with the person that you love for that long. Um worked for recmaster up until he couldn't, and and the only reason he left recmaster is because he just his health wasn't permitted anymore. He he loved the he loved the industry.

SPEAKER_07 28:52

He definitely did. Um Terry started out with his own as an instructor, he had worked for about a year, year and a half with some as an apprentice to Donnie Cruz. When he started out, I became his apprentice, and we worked together pretty regularly for a year and a half before I went out on my own. So um I owe a lot of my success in the training part of the towing industry, the things I learned from Terry, not only techniques and what ways to do toes, but also how to disperse information and things like that. So I definitely owe a lot of credit of any if I've experienced any success, I owe him a lot of credit for helping me. And then the third one, unfortunately, is a gentleman I worked for back in Virginia, um, Howard Wright.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

All right, and Howard Wright is somebody you knew and you were you worked with at uh nearfield amico, right?

SPEAKER_07 29:52

Well, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 29:55

But uh Howard was a good guy, he was one of the most professional towers I ever worked for. He had been a Marine, he was very disciplined. Um he had a cousin that had uh was an artist, and when uh Howard bought cradle snatchers, moving away from sling trucks into cradle snatchers, when he bought he bought two different ones and had his gave them to his nephew for he kept them for months doing all this uh freehand mural artwork all over it. I had the pleasure of uh driving one of those trucks for probably about a year, and it was definitely a head turner. But uh Harold was a very, like I say, disciplined gentleman, uh ran his business very well, learned a lot from him, and he was just all around good guy. And Howard was lived to be 95 years old.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

95 years old and called you every year on your birthday.

SPEAKER_07 30:52

Yeah, he did. He would call me on my birthday, amazed me. I'd worked for him 30 or 40 years ago, and um he still called me on my birthday to wish me a happy birthday. So um uh we lost a good man when we lost Howard. Godspeed to all three of them.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

It's been a blessing to know all three of those people though, um, to have those three people in your life though. That's the that's how you have to count the blessings. The loss is significant and it's impactful, but the gain is that we've we've had them.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Yeah, I agree. Amen.

DJ Reads The Dash Poem

Final Thanks And Stay Safe

SPEAKER_05 31:26

Hey guys, can I read this to you and then Wes at the end, do you say keep it or shed it? Is that okay? Yeah, okay, guys. I want to tell all of you, all three of these people, Bubba, Howard, and Terry. Terry had a great book out. Uh, if you didn't get a copy of the book, contact Wreckmaster. There's still some available. I got the book. I had Terry sign it, and I donated it to the INA Library, and they have it in their shelves to help all towers. But this is a poem called The Dash, and I read it at every one of my family's funerals, and I would love to read it here. I read of a man who stood to speak at a funeral of a friend. He referred to the dates on his tombstone from beginning to the end. He noted that first came the date of birth and spoke the following date with tears. But he said what mattered most of all was the dash between those years. But the dash represents all the time they spent alive on earth, and now only those who love them know how much that little line is worth. For it matters not how much we own the cars, the house, the trucks, the cash. What matters is how we live in love and how we spend our dash. So think about this long and hard. Are the things that you'd like to change, for you never know how much time is left in a tower's life that can still be rearranged. If you could just slow down enough to consider what's true and real, and always try to understand the way the customer might feel, be less quick to anger and show appreciation more and love the people in our lives like we'd never loved before. If we treat each other with respect and more often wear a smile, remembering that this special dash might only last a little while. And the last paragraph. So when your eulogy is being read with your life's actions to be rehashed, would you be proud of the things they say about how you spent your dash? And that was written by Linda Ellis back in 1996. All right, guys. That's my share too.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

It definitely says a lot, DJ.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Yeah, it's beautiful, DJ.

SPEAKER_07 34:28

Well, I want to thank everybody for listening today. I want to thank Rick for taking time out of his day to uh share with us what's going on, what what he's doing. Um DJ April Chuck, appreciate everybody. Thanks for listening. Be safe out there.