Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Let’s Go Girls: Heather from the South Bay
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Join me and my friend Heather for an episode in our “Let’s Go Girls” series where members of our community share their stories and we explore what women have learned about sex, their bodies, and pleasure. We discuss the facts, challenges and freedom of midlife and menopause. Listen to learn, laugh, get prepared and feel less alone in whatever stage of womanhood you find yourself.
Visit our episode sponsor COCONU and receive 15% off your order with code: Pleasure
Learn more about these topics:
Sex and Pain
Lube
Erectile Dissatisfaction vs Erectile Dysfunction
ORDER my Book: Permission for Pleasure: Tending Your Sexual Garden
JOIN my Newsletter: Good Education for Good Sex
FOLLOW on Instagram @cindyscharkey
VISIT my website and blog
Welcome to Permission for Pleasure. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host. Delighted you're here for this episode that is part of our special series where members of our community share their stories and we explore what women have learned or not learned about their bodies, sex, and pleasure. In this episode, you'll hear my guests call me the lube fairy. And that's perfect because today's episode is sponsored by one of my favorite lubes, Coconou. They offer an organic coconut oil-based lubricant, a natural and edible water-based lube, and a silky smooth hemp-infused body oil. Look for my affiliate discount link in the show notes. And while you're there, don't forget to rate and review the podcast so others can find us. On today's show, I'm talking with my dear friend Heather all about perimenopause, menopause, midlife, and beyond. We cover a lot of ground in this discussion. Oh, and you want to stay till the end to hear Heather's heartwarming story to wrap up the episode. She's been a champion of my work and this podcast from the beginning, and it is a delight to have her with me today. Heather, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Cindy. I have to tell you how much of a privilege and pleasure this is to be here with you because I think you're such a rock star in the torch bearing you're doing for women. And so I appreciate you and what you do in this great endeavor.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Heather. And thanks for being with me today. Heather's a friend of mine, and we thought we'd get together and talk a little bit about menopause, perimenopause, and the phases of life that, well, I think a lot of women go into without a lot of education and knowledge and a feeling unprepared. What do you think about that, Heather?
SPEAKER_03100% sitting before you today, Cindy, because I am your poster child for unprepared and um surprise, just about on every single level of the stage of womanhood. When you're prepared or someone just goes before you and tells you a little bit, then it's not so scary.
SPEAKER_02But tell me more about that. I mean, tell me, did you receive any kind of you know, sexual health education growing up?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you know, I saw the beautiful uh film that was probably originally black and white, where the girl gets a draisy dress from her mother now that she's a woman and that, but she couldn't swim in the pool. You know, isn't that just like I'm like, oh shoot, do I have to think about swimming in a pool? You know, and just all these terrible ways that it was introduced to us when we were young. Um, but the the shocker to me was I think for you know, for both my mom, you know, my mom was like, Are you sure you're confident with how to put a tampon in? And I'm like, oh yes, you know, that makes sense, you know, and I and neither one of us was comfortable with probably the demonstration. So I went a whole year putting it in wrong. And so every time the period came, it was just terrible washout and just represented just trying to dodge a bullet all the time because I'm I literally thought that it went in like that you just kind of folded your little vagina around it. I did not know that it there was like a little shoot there for it.
SPEAKER_01So okay, she's making hand motions, you can't see listeners, and it would make a lot more sense if you saw her hand motions.
SPEAKER_03I was so uncomfortable, and I don't recommend that way. And then finally, my mom thought, after about a year, something's wrong here, you know, because I would, I mean, it affected tennis, because if I was playing and I had my little white tennis shorts on or anything, I mean, just it was so it always represented shutdown for me. And I that's sad, you know, that just you know, so many of that those things as womanhood was introduced to me, never represented the oh, just exciting and new and fresh and fun, and I'm a woman. It represented, oh, this is this is kind of a threat to my freedom, or you know, something kind of almost like a shame attached to it. And and it's so sad because you know, it that affects your your reflection on yourself as and your body.
SPEAKER_00Very much so, very much so.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I you know, it's interesting because I think also for girls, it once your body's changing, sometimes it represents for the men in your life to feel like, oh, I gotta be respectful and now I have to have a distance, you know. I was watching um a holiday yesterday and I loved it with Jack Black. He said, Oops, I did a boob graze, you know, he just did a boob graze, and then everything feels so much more conscious. And so then how you um interpret that as a young girl is you start thinking, oh, my body is changing my relationship. So there's a lot to me that my body just didn't represent um at an early age, the changes being positive, you know, immediately went into thinking, oh, this is this is hard.
SPEAKER_02So more negative and shame and a lot of silence, yes, right, definitely.
SPEAKER_03And we were not chatting about it around the table, no, and I was the oldest, so nobody had gone there before me, so I thought it was all very quiet. Yeah. So you were leading the way, yes, right, and then again, you know, just so funny, just as you go along and then you get into, you know, on my wedding night shock, I had no idea that it meant it was painful. I did not know that. So, anyway, I think just everything has been a surprise. And then, of course, childbearing, you hear about it being painful, but you don't really know what that is until someone until you actually experience it. Somebody tells you, and then boom, you go into menopause and same kind of surprise. I didn't even know I was in it.
SPEAKER_02So yes, and I want to circle back, um, just for anyone listening, and you're hearing Heather say, talk about her wedding night and how she didn't know it was going to be painful. But if you've been around this podcast at all, you know that painful sex is is not normal, it's not the way it uh you know should be. And there's there's ways to make it more make it comfortable, even the first time. And so I just want to clarify that because many, many people continue to tell their family or friends that it's just gonna hurt and you're gonna have pain, and that's just the way it is. And that is not just the way it is. We've talked before in other episodes about lubrication and arousal and relaxation and all the things that make it comfortable, even when it may be new to you. What's interesting, Heather, is I've had several people message saying, Can you do an episode about first intercourse? Can you do an episode about the first time you go to a GYN, you know, gynecological appointment? You know, all of these first-time things and new things, like you're saying, when you're not prepared and you don't have information, you know, it feels so scary and daunting. And sometimes then it can be very uncomfortable or painful because you don't know the steps to take. And I think when this happens just ongoing in women's lives, then they come up against even this mid-life stage and they they don't feel prepared because they don't have the education. They don't know what to expect. They don't know how to manage this phase. And a lot of the language, I think, around a lot of female issues, but especially perimenopause and menopause, is that it's some kind of condition or disease when in reality it's just the f a phase of our life, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think the hardest part of it that's different than any of the other stages is that hormones affect your um demeanor, you just your mind and the way you're thinking about things and your emotions and everything. So it multiplies the impact, I think, so much. Where maybe, you know, just kind of like what we do when pre um premenstrual, and we have all those hormones, same thing is going on, but in this wild roller coaster, that was the big surprise for me. I had heard um friends before me say, Oh, you know, your vagina's like shards of glass. I that's my favorite quote. Shards of glass. Like, ooh, that sounds very uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_02Everybody's journey is so individual. I think the one thing that that is pervasive, though, is a lifetime of toxic messaging. You know, the a lot of what we hear is negative messaging around our bodies, aging, our hormones changing. It's just always a negative, negative, negative. There's never really talk about the freedom that you start to experience in midlife or the getting to this stage and caring less about the things that don't matter, the kind of coming into your own as a woman in this stage. There's a lot of there's a lot of positives to midlife and beyond, you know. But I think that culturally we just take in a lot of toxicity around it. And especially what what I see happen then is you actually took action and and and had somebody help you and work through what you were feeling. But what a lot of people do is they just sit in it with no help or guidance and no information. And that's a lonely, hard place to go through these phases of our life.
SPEAKER_03I think that's what's sad is that so many women do sit in that place and they think it's them or they're alone in it, or that they just think, oh, yeah, I just bear it. And I I feel like that's why why I always love to talk about it with other women because I want to help them not do that. Because I was so freed up once I learned that it's just something I had to figure out a little bit and manage. And you're so right, there's so much positive to this age. Like, I love the freedom you get. And I one of the things I'd have to say, there's so many F's because this all kind of hits you you in the 50s. This is when my menopause kind of hit me. And in the 50s, there's so many other F's. It's like you're free in a lot of ways. Filter is off, I have to say. More of us tell us exactly tell each other what exactly what we think. A lot more room to frolic, and you know, as your children are leaving home, you probably didn't frolic a lot while they were home.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh. Yeah, with your partner romantically.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So that part's sweet. And so there is a lot of things that are really fun about this stage, and I love that. My mom did tell me that. She goes, I just want you to know every next chapter is wonderful, it just gets better. And I that really helped me when my mom told me that because you mourn kind of the loss of the what you know, your little people and being home, and then but then you go to the next chapter, and that's really exciting. And then you go to the next chapter, and it has been every chapter, next chapter has been a fun, fun chapter.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that's good advice, a good way to to look at moving through the phases and stages of our life. So, Heather, let's kind of define some terms so we're all on the same page if you're listening. Pre-menopause is actually the transition time that leads up to your final menstrual period. That's called pre-menopause. Perimenopause is that transition time as well as the first year after your last menstrual period. So, and as Heather and I have been talking about, these your estrogen levels are fluctuating and declining, your periods are getting unpredictable. I this can last for years, okay? But menopause is actually what marks that 12 months after your final period. So a lot of people call it all menopause, but it's really a phase of transition that can last years that includes pre-menopause, perimenopause, and then menopause. And I like the way Dr. Jen Gunter, she wrote the menopause manifesto, and she says the only predictable thing about the menopause transition is its unpredictability.
SPEAKER_03You don't really know when the ebbs and flows are coming.
SPEAKER_02And I think one of the big symptoms that a lot of people don't talk about, Heather, I mean, you and I started talking about hormones and our brains and all that, but I always want to remind people that abnormal menstrual bleeding is uh by far one of the major side effects and symptoms of this transition time. That means heavy periods, irregular periods, bleeding in between periods, hot flashes and hormones get a lot of press, right? Everybody talks about those, but but the silent part is around this the these periods, and it's like it's like a roulette wheel. You you really never know what what you're gonna get on any said month, right?
SPEAKER_03So interesting too, Cindy. I'd be interested to know what you think about this because I remember when my mom was going through this, she had a real flow, like a really heavy flow, and she was thinking, Oh my gosh, I probably have to have the hysterectomy. But he she had such a wise OBGYN because he said to her, Have you gone through something emotional recently? And she said, Yes, I lost my father. And he said that that can affect it. So let's just see. Because the emotion that she was going through in the loss of her dad actually affected the blood flow. And I so I'm wondering if that's true too, that even not only does it affect your emotions, but can your emotions affect your blood flow?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think there's a lot of research behind the connection of our body with our mind and emotions and what we're feeling. And so I never I never discount that because there's such a connection. There, it is not just, you know, your emotion and feelings have nothing to do with your body. We are all, it is all connected, you know. It's so it's a wise uh, you know, practitioner that asks questions outside of the box, i i.e., do you have a major event happening in your life, or do you have something else medically going on, or you know, all of these kinds of questions? We always want to look at the bigger picture.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. And it's so true. I think we're learning more and more. You know, we just can't separate our emotions and our bodies. Are they we're they're totally interconnected?
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. And you you know the about hot flashes. Let's revisit that for women in in those listening, and night sweats, another major symptom of this phase. I've had women I've met with say, I'm creating my own weather now. You know, it you feel like your body temperature is is whacked, right? Did you experience any of that?
SPEAKER_03That's so funny because I actually was looking forward to that part, Cindy. And people told me it's like an oven is on inside you. And I remember that when I was pregnant, the heat factor. I I uh and the reason why that sounds weird that I was like, because I get cold easily. So I do love being warm. I'm just uh gravitate towards being warm. So I thought that actually doesn't sound that bad. But I never got it, I never got the hot flashes. I did get that when I had my 1C section. Isn't that weird? I don't know why I didn't, but I that is something that a lot of other people have experienced, and I see it all the time with the some of the people we know together. Um won't have a jacket on, just too much.
SPEAKER_02Our estrogen plays a role in our temperature regulation. So as a result, when estrogen's taken away, there's a hypersensitivity to minor temperature changes. And so what our body does is it it reacts accordingly, right? And for you, you didn't experience that, and you maybe because of what you described about having a lot of estrogen and not having a big drop in estrogen, possibly. Either way, this symptom alone is is some of what makes I think a lot of women feel crazy, feel uh frustrated, mad, like how am I supposed to function? And you know, and uh and and then I think when we fight that heat, it it makes it worse. It really does. There's a sense in which you know we could we can breathe through those flushes of heat, remind our mind that it is temporary, it's gonna ease up. And that makes a big difference in letting our temperature in our body re-regulate. But boy, when you're in the middle of it and dripping sweat, it's a little, it's a little bit hard to uh remember to do the things that can help ease the symptoms.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's so interesting because I that would be the question I would have for you, because I have some friends who have done the over the herbal, whatever those all different herbal over-the-counter stuff is. Do you see that those make a difference on that?
SPEAKER_02It's such a common question, and really it is so individual. So the supplements and botanical options, you know, most of those haven't been studied enough for us to really have statistics that are proven that they that they help. But that being said, different things work for different people. It's hard with with this phase of life because you know, there's so much debate about all of the options for treatment, you know, for for help. And I always encourage women to assess your own symptoms, take an assessment of yourself. What are you feeling? What are you experiencing? Also, along with your own personal health history and any underlying health issues that are coming into play. And then as you think about these options, whether it's, you know, menopausal hormone therapy or non-hormonal prescription therapies or supplements or botanical options, natural remedies, then you weigh the risk and the benefit for your individual self, hopefully with the help of a care provider that knows your health history, and then you make make choices. You make choices for yourself.
SPEAKER_03I'm so glad you emphasize that, Cindy, because I don't know if everybody always knows, because we're so used to it's definitely the the um the airplane um philosophy that we're so used to, especially as as women, to nurture the people around us and forget to put the oxygen mask on ourselves. And you know, we just don't even really think to like obsess ourselves, and always realizing that everybody, you know, you're always on everybody else's schedule and thoughts, and what what does everybody need and meeting everybody's needs, you forget to take in, oh my goodness, what do I need? What do what's going on with me? So that was definitely an adjustment for me to start looking at, oh my gosh, I am not doing sleep. I'm I'm a little wacky on the way I'm seeing things, and that you just don't even realize it what what's going on with you sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and the the temporary, you know, cognitive changes or people call it brain fog, memory problems, forgetfulness, that is a you know, a hormone-related issue that definitely is temporary, you know, it doesn't stay, but when you're in the middle of that, like you're you described, you really it could be it can be really disconcerting.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Another person I know, I remember just because she was a little ahead of me too. She's probably about eight years older than I am. She had said that her husband looked over at her one day and just said, Oh, you're back. Like all of a sudden, she was on the other side of this wild roller coaster. Cause I was just kind of entering in, and I think it was kind of an eight year process for her. She was just on the other side of it. And um I was like, Oh boy, your husband said you're back. How long have you been gone? How can you? So it's definitely was helpful for me to realize oh, oh, I'm not my full self, and there will be another side to this.
SPEAKER_02Well, and in some ways, you are your full self, you just have you know changes and challenges going on. Yeah, that's probably a better way to put it. But I I you know not like I try to spin it all to be positive, but sometimes I think when the way we think of it does affect how we feel in it.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_02That's why I bring that up. That's I always really caution people. There's no there's no like magic medication that's gonna fix all of the the issues. That's the truth. Um I do caution people that that always say, well, should I just you know take testosterone? I'm like, no, you shouldn't just take you have to again weigh the benefits and the risks and decide, you know, with your physician what's what's best. And I think because a lot of people feel like they have a decreased libido in this phase, I really believe that often the issues with the libido in this phase have to do with other symptoms that you're experiencing, like we talked about lack of sleep, sleep disturbances, abnormal bleeding, um, we haven't even got into vaginal dryness and pain with sex, and all of these things then affect your libido because you're not enjoying the sex you're having. I think the other big item here with libido is that people don't understand how desire works. Understanding that as we age and change, that we move into more responsive desire, men, women, all of us, that's just a normal way to be. In other words, desire isn't always, you know, saying, come hither. It's not always beckoning you, you know. You have to sometimes go after it, so to speak. Meaning let yourself have some arousal and experience some things to your for your brain to say, oh, oh, I might, I am interested in this connection. It's not always going to be like, boom, I want to have sex. I think there's a lot of misconception about you know your libido decreasing in this phase and stage without taking into consideration a lot of other factors that are playing in. I mentioned vaginal dryness, right? So for so many, yeah. What did you say? Wait, what did you call it? Oh, broken glass?
SPEAKER_03Shards of glass. I thought that was just something obviously I've never forgotten. She probably told me that about 12 years ago, and I've never forgotten that shards of glass.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I had I had a gal I met with who said, I feel like I'm having sex with Edward Scissor hands. Ay, I mean, that's how it feels. So you know, when we have vaginal dryness, that can result in itching and burning and uh just a whole decreased elasticity to the vagina and the tissues thinning. So think of that. That's not comfortable, right? And that can result in painful sex, on top of the uh the lack of lubrication, which dry intercourse is not comfortable and can be painful. So these kind of factors that that aren't talked about very often, I so often talk to women who they've heard nothing about using lube ever in their life, and then especially at this phase of life where it's so needed to override that vaginal dryness. And it's a new thing to bring into their sexual intimacy. And so it's it takes some communication and you know, some changes.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I have to testify. I love that it makes me think of I think all your listeners need to know that you come bearing gifts always. You always have all your little lube uh samplers with you and spreading sunshine and dropping it off and giving it to ladies wherever you go. You're just like the little fairy, the little lube fairy that sprinkles the good news to all the women around her. And I have seen these women um in the different groups that we've been in go, wow, I had no idea. I mean, just the the lights go off just from using it. I was one of those women. And actually, you know, I did not realize that that even my husband would think it's great.
SPEAKER_01I'm laughing because now I'm Heather's calling me the lube fairy now.
SPEAKER_02But literally, I feel so strongly about lube that I do when I go to events where there's uh, you know, several women, I like to bring the lube samples and pass them out or hand them out, have a little basket out and tell people, you know, this is something to try. Like if this, this is not a taboo subject. This is if we're all in this phase and you know, it doesn't really matter actually what age the women are, I'd bring it everywhere. I don't care if they're 25 or 55. But if you've never used lube before, or perhaps if you're one of those people who produce enough lubrication to be comfortable with intercourse, especially, then maybe you've never thought about using lube. And then women get into this stage, as sometimes with a partner that's been a long-term partner, right? And they think, well, well, why, why, why do you want to try lube now? I mean, sometimes people go to, is it something about me, or do you not have desire me, or are you not getting turned on? Because maybe before your arousal really led to lubrication on your own. And so this conversation of saying, this is about the phase and stage I'm in. And my estrogen is so low now that it I don't produce the same amount of lubrication that I used to. And I let's have a conversation about that because I want to continue to have intercourse and I want it to be comfortable. And so I figured out that this is an option to try and make sure that you know I'm taking care of my vagina and that it's lubricated to not experience pain and tissue and tissue tears. That's the other thing. You can have micro tears to the tissue because it's thinning, and that's really uncomfortable. But we have to understand that if we if we don't start these conversations, especially with male partners, they don't have a uterus, they don't have a vagina, and they they don't, it doesn't all, it's not gonna all compute and make sense because they're not experiencing what we're experiencing as women.
SPEAKER_03I actually would say all underline everything you just said, Cindy, and to add that I feel like it made it even richer because I had a greater intimacy just involving him in it with me. And that made me more probably feel more just like that question you asked a while ago on your Instagram.
SPEAKER_02Do you want emotional connection or do you want, you know, do you want sexual connection?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, I'm that's entirely dependent. I'm gonna have the far more likely to have the sexual connection with my husband once I've had the emotional connection. And so involving my husband in this actually made it really sweet because he's he was tender and caring with me about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I love you sharing that, Heather, because I think sometimes we, you know, we hold back from talking about, you know, our sexual intimacy and also talking about what we need or the changes we're experiencing. And yet the result of doing that can often be what you're describing, which is greater connection and greater care, you know, and then moving into our later years and having magnificent sex, frankly. So, I mean, most people that describe having magnificent sex from the research are over 50.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that's see, that's a great piece of information for these women to look forward to that and to say, wow, I'm not shutting down, I'm actually gearing up.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, yes, yeah. So, one other thing about the vaginal dryness that I do want to mention is that some women really benefit from vaginal moisturizers, and this would be different than lube. Okay, lube is for sex, moisturizers are for maintaining vaginal health, and it's different. They don't work the same as lube, and they're non-hormonal, they're over-the-counter, and they they can treat that dryness and irritation, just like you would put on face cream. It's a similar kind of idea. I always want to mention that as something that people can think about.
SPEAKER_03Yes, that's so that's so funny because it reminds me of this birthday card that we all loved. Um, because all it said on the on the front was moist. And it's because we gave it to her for her 60th birthday. Because we're like, that is the word, because you open it up and it says, I just thought you'd like to have this word, or whatever it was, just making a joke of how basically that's what we're doing. We're putting cream on our faces, cream in the vaginal canal, you know, everywhere we have to moisturize. So it it's there's a dry factor that seems to be cut that we're we're up against a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And we want to learn to work with it rather than fight it, right?
SPEAKER_03And not a lot of people love the word moist, we don't say it a lot. No, if you say it, it usually gets a reaction. That's funny.
SPEAKER_02I haven't seen that card, but that's funny. You you should have that card. I should have that card. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking too of just the lack of information because we're talking about partners, and people say, Well, a lot of times women come to me over the issues their their male partners having rather than themselves. Because I think that just like we don't have education as women and preparation for what's happening midlife and beyond, either do men. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And midlife and beyond, yeah, is when we see more erectile issues. And all men here and all they're inundated with is every commercial, every, you know, take this pill and it'll solve all your problems with your erections. And I there's such a disservice to men. I just it makes me want to scream. And I think what I want to insert here is just that difference between erectile dissatisfaction for men and erectile dysfunction. So you can be a little dissatisfied with the way your erections are happening, whether you're having a harder time getting hard, whether you're having a more difficult time staying erect, whether you're having issues with premature ejaculation or less ejaculate. These things are can happen as we go into mid-age, you know, midlife and beyond for men. And they don't know about it, and neither do women. So a lot of times I'll counsel women and they'll say, Well, do you think something's wrong, wrong with him? I mean, I I sometimes no ejaculate comes out, but he orgasms. And I say, Oh, that's that's a dry orgasm. That's just as we get to midlife and beyond, sometimes there'll be an orgasm, but there won't be any ejaculate. And their mouths drop open and never, it's completely foreign, never heard anything about it. Or just this idea of having some dissatisfaction, you know, feelings about your erection changing because your erection in your 20s isn't going to look like your erection in your 60s, very possibly. Right. Yeah. And if men don't know that, then there's, you know, there's just a lot of, well, performance anxiety, right? And when men experience that or have doubt, don't think there's going to be any adjustment, then a lot of them check out of sex.
SPEAKER_03Oh, totally. You could see how that would be. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. Or the desire issue. A lot of men who experienced, say, a lot of spontaneous desire in their early years. And then as they normally naturally move into more responsive desire, where they don't just want sex out of the blue, they have to have some like kissing and affection. And their brain goes, Oh, this is nice. Yeah, let's let's get more intimate, right? That responsive desire becomes more the norm in midlife and beyond. And when men don't know that, they think their libidos messed up.
SPEAKER_03And you know, they don't know about this because can you imagine the the madman generation before us, the the 60s were you know, the cocktail generation or whatever, saying, Son, let me tell you about my dry ejaculation. No one is ever going to say, probably ever tell their son that they ever experienced that. You know, they especially I would have to say, we women share a lot, probably much more than men do on all these topics because we are connected through being vulnerable with each other. Men don't naturally connect by vulnerability. I mean they do, but I don't think it's a um common practice for them. So they probably are not knowing because they don't share with each other.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So sometimes I feel like if I can give the information here to women, then hopefully there'll be more conversations opened in the in the homes that are listening, and and then there'll be education kind of spread across partners, which you know really makes for really good sex. Communication is very key.
SPEAKER_03And then to, I mean, I love I love that. And then to just go back because we jumped over it, those commercials that just inundate all the football games, all the basketball, everything, all everything, whether erectile dysfunction or what all the things are, and then there's this the sexy lady. It's always about are you gonna make this woman happy? That's what they're conveying. Like, are you going to be desirable? And he's always desirable once he takes his pill. And it just you have to, I I so share your compassion for men because just you you wouldn't even want to enter into the game if you felt like you were gonna be not a winner.
SPEAKER_02You know, there are so many sexual scripts for men um that are so detrimental. Uh, and and what I would really encourage people to do in this phase of life is to take time to excavate the sexual scripts that you have or you and your partner have, and really revisit that and decide what really holds true and what doesn't, and what you found to be true and to be false, and what you no longer want to take in and believe. There's a there can be a lot of freedom in entering this midlife and beyond stage when we do that kind of work.
SPEAKER_03So true. And then I love that because I feel like you remind me to think about my part in that. And I think about the love languages because you and I were talking about this a little ahead of time. My husband's love language is definitely words of affirmation. And so I think, oh, you know, a lot of men's is touch or acts of service. I mean, you have to think if you played that up against in a sexual intimate level, what is it that I need to affirm of their love language to kind of help that? Because when they feel like they're doing well and they feel affirmed, isn't that how we all are? We just build upon it, we grow. But if we feel like we're being judged or criticized or maybe not even affirmed, and a lot of times my silence is taken as criticism. If we are not doing that part, how it what are we doing to contribute?
SPEAKER_02That is very powerful words. That's a that's a that is a word right there. And if you aren't familiar with the love languages, I have an episode about that, a little bit about that in a December episode. But you know, it's how you give and receive love. And so what Heather's saying here is that this plays into your sexual intimacy as well as just your life together with a partner, how they feel loved, and then being proactive about speaking the language that makes them feel loved. And I think so often we do have this mantra of what a good girl, I have it in quotes, is maybe. And I would hope that this phase of our life we could let go of those kind of mantras that don't serve us and and give ourselves the freedom to speak about what turns us on, to speak about our partner's body parts that we love, that we enjoy, to use our words as as foreplay and as a love language, right? To really keep affirming each other in our sexuality and in our our sexual intimacy. Guys, there is that is so sexy. I mean, it really is. And even if it's difficult at first to use your voice, it's a powerful way to spark erotic energy within the relationship and uh affirm our partner and build, like Heather's saying, and build on the intimacy.
SPEAKER_03Try it out. I've been tempting to say, you're you're I feel like this is your homework assignment. Give it a whirl, see what happens when you when you speak his love language in that way, if it, if it's not words of affirmation, or just affirm him in whatever way he receives love. You know, we talk so much about what cultivates that in ourselves in getting to a more intimate level. But boy, you know, that works for men too, to feel affirmed and adored and treasured and and just see how that might play out back for yourself when you when you do that for them.
SPEAKER_02There's your word from Heather. I think I want to also remind women that as we get into midlife and beyond, what we find in the research is that women tend to want variety, often more than a male partner, which is surprising to people. Change and curiosity and variety is what keeps your libido fueled. So perhaps this homework from Heather, especially if you have a male partner, it's so important to speak what you're thinking out loud, to affirm, to talk about the changes, to develop possibly a new sexual menu that serves you in your relationship moving forward from midlife and beyond. Sex can look a lot of different ways, especially as we move into midlife and beyond. It can open up a lot more pleasure.
SPEAKER_03You know, I um felt like I had a really I had really great role models ahead of me of keeping the love hot, like really keeping the honeymoon going. My both my parents and my grandparents. I know a lot of people don't have that. So I do have this expectation that it can get just even better. Um one of my most imprinting moments was when my grandfather was on his deathbed and he was in a coma, you know, just because his body was shutting down, and my mom felt like he was staying alive because he was so concerned about my grandmother. And so my mom had heard that a lot of times if you can release them, they'll finally let go. And um so he she told my mom she told my grandmother, I think you need to release him. And so my grandmother in the hospital went over to him and passionately kissed him all over his face. And you know, of course, I hadn't seen this kind of passion out of my grandparents because you know, that was probably for intimate moments, and I felt so privileged because she passionately kissed him, and this man that hadn't been moving. For days because he was in a coma, all of his little toes began to wiggle. And it was the first sign of life we had seen him in. And that is the power of two 80-plus people still burning the candle or fire of love that she could bring his toes to wiggle like that because she was passionately kissing him like that. And I've always remembered to think, wow, that we probably miss so much because we don't remember. You know, we we we think the burning hot love movie or love story to watch is to see J Lo and whoever the leading man is, and we think that's the romantic love story. And I thought that is the romantic love story, is to see two 80-plus year olds still on fire for each other and watch making someone's toes wiggle when you're in a coma because you're that passionate with each other.
SPEAKER_02I love hearing that. What a beautiful you know, idea and concept to look to for the future for people listening, especially those in long-term relationships. And I can just picture his toes wiggling, and that makes me smile big. Thanks for sharing that, Heather.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my joy of just came out. Always always think about that as being like, wow, there's there's my mantle.
SPEAKER_02What a lovely story to end our discussion on, Heather. I'm so grateful for you being with me today and sharing your heart and some of your own life and experience with the community. I think when we share our stories, it helps us, you know, feel less alone. And so I appreciate you. I appreciate you and you being with me today.
SPEAKER_03Oh, thank you, Cindy. I think you're definitely making more women feel less alone in and uh who knows how many you've impacted. And I'm so appreciative of you just holding this torch for so many women. And I know sometimes you feel alone in the process of it, but in your sacrifice, you make so many of us not feel so alone.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for that. I would love for you to share before we end something that delights you, Heather, something that brings you pleasure day to day.
SPEAKER_03Well, you know, that's so funny when you asked that, Cindy. I had to erase in my mind, but I'd have to say I make a point to try to run out when I know the um sunset's gonna be and see if I can catch whatever the skyline of the sunset. Because, you know, is that why do we just do that on vacation? Why don't I feel like it's a gift given to us every day? And there's something really interesting when I go down to the beach, there's something very sweet about all these people all stop and they're all watching the sunset. There's something beautiful about the closure of a day and it being so beautifully displayed. And then we just love a great sunrise. So, what is it? There's something about this. So maybe it goes back into kind of the talk that we had today. There's something beautiful about sunsets, and there's something beautiful about sunrises. I think there's something in it that's is in us, innately imprinted in us, to know that that's beautiful and to take it in.
SPEAKER_02Hmm, hmm. What a beautiful encouragement and more homework, possibly. More more homework for the listeners. To look for the sunrise, look for the sunset, stop and delight in those moments. Because, like we've talked about, when we pause and notice and take delight, we learn to give ourselves permission for pleasure. And a big thank you to our episode sponsor, Kokano. You heard us talk a lot about the benefits of lube today. So, from the Lube Ferry, use my link in the show notes to try Kokanoop. Like me, they are dedicated to helping couples increase their capacity for connection, intimacy, and pleasure.
