Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Let’s Go Girls: Hailey from Pasadena
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This is a Special Episode, where members of our community share their stories and we explore what women hear about sex, their bodies, and pleasure. Hailey from Pasadena is my first guest and we talk about curiosity, consent, and both the silence and common narratives that many women take in who grow up in a conservative community.
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As a registered nurse and educator for over 30 years, I've been really needed to break the silence surrounding sex, especially for women. This podcast is about opening doors to healthy conversations about sex. What I found is that when women have comprehensive education about sex, their self-confidence is stored. And when that happens, women can truly express experience and enjoy their sexuality. They give themselves permission for pleasure. Welcome to Permission for Pleasure. I'm Cindy, your host. Thanks for listening and being part of our podcast community. As always, I'm so delighted that you're here and joining me. Did you know that I offer a newsletter? It's an educational newsletter once a month. And I just want to invite you to sign up for that over on my website or at the link in the show notes if you want more education. I also have added a question box to the podcast page on my website, and you can send your questions in anonymously, and I'll answer them on the podcast. So either we'll all answer one per episode or possibly do a QA episode to cover a few at a time. So remember, if you ask a question, most likely there's quite a few others with the same question. And today I want to answer one just that I've received a few times actually, just to kick off this show before I introduce our guest. The question is: are nipple orgasms real? Okay. Stimulation of the nipples is it actually activates the same region in your brain as stimulation to your genitals. So nipples have lots of knots of nerve endings. We've talked about nerve endings with the clitoris before in the first few episodes. And so that kind of stimulation can be really sexually pleasurable for people. And that's why some people actually do orgasm from nipple stimulation alone. Now, whether you enjoy nipple stimulation or you don't enjoy it, that's personally up to you. And you know what? Remember, we've talked about this before. Things you may have liked at one time, you may not like later, or things you didn't enjoy at one time, you might enjoy later in your life. So don't be afraid to, you know, re-look at things anew and try something new. But yes, in fact, you can orgasm from nipple stimulation alone. Thanks for sending that question in. It's a great question. And keep them coming. Now on to today's show. We have something a little different today for our 10th episode. We're celebrating the community by having a guest with me that's been part of my community for a couple of years already. We want to talk together just about some of the crazy things young women hear about sex. Myths, stories, perhaps things that come across as education, but really are not educational or helpful, right? And I have a lovely young woman from my community, Haley Rutledge, with me today. We've been messaging back and forth for a couple of years, actually. And she's always encouraging me on in this work. And so I invited her to share a little bit about her story and also just ask the questions around some of the crazy things she's heard. So, Haley, welcome to the show. Hi, Cindy.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for doing God's work out there. So glad to have you. So tell tell the listeners just a little bit about you.
SPEAKER_02I um grew up in a pretty sheltered community. And um I grew up with a bunch of young women who were getting married around the same time. So I was in a lot of rooms at bachelorette parties, getting lots of bad advice uh getting shared around the circle. And as I started getting more empowered and learning more about what you teach and reading the books that were on your website and such, I started realizing a lot of the advice I'd been hearing my entire life had been really off.
SPEAKER_01So let's talk, Kaylee, about just some of the things you've heard, because quite often things you've heard are going to be what my listeners have heard as well, right? Uh you hearing the advice of, you know, don't don't worry about having a good time with sex, or don't worry about what you're feeling or not feeling. Just focus on your partner and and that'll make you happy. Am I am I phrasing that the right way?
SPEAKER_02Yes. And that was said stone cold, serious, like honestly, someone was trying to give helpful advice to someone who had not had sex before and was getting married. And um hearing that, it just goes against everything that I you talk about and what you can read about what it looks like for women to have pleasure. So I was kind of shell-shocked by that. And that made me realize that so many women are getting told that advice, especially in um more conservative communities where it women are put in a position where the best thing a woman can be is someone who serves constantly. So that gets extended to the bedroom. I've seen a lot too. Yeah, it makes me sad to think that there's a lot of women who think that's that's what's gonna help them out.
SPEAKER_01That's you know, it's so helpful to say these things out loud because so often people are thinking them or they've heard it or just sort of taken it in, you know, as they've grown up or, you know, entered into relationships, and they don't have any framework to reframe it, so to speak. And so it's so important to point out a couple of things you brought up. One is that I think for many women, there's a lot of gendered mantras that they they grow up with. I mean, I just hear this over and over and over again that we're to be the giver, that we're to be the caretaker. So that so we should focus on everyone else. And so what happens with that, right, in the in the sexuality setting is that it's really diff difficult to to make that switch from giver to receiver. And that's a lot of why I named this podcast permission for pleasure, because I've just come up against so many women over this you know 35 years of working with women, of women not having just no framework for allowing themselves to experience pleasure or expecting that they'll have pleasure or looking to have pleasure. And so I do think that it's uh it's one of those, you know, narratives that we maybe have been conditioned with or brought up with or heard over and over that we have to almost reframe for ourselves and decide how can I look at this differently and see myself as a co-co-sexual. I want to say also a sexual being, and I also want to receive pleasure, give and receive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's a common like break for women talking about breaks and accelerators is the idea that you're not allowed to have pleasure or like you don't deserve it or pursue it or ask for it. And like actually finding the words to, and I think just a lot of women don't even know what to ask for because they've been told their entire lives, don't even think about it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait until you're married. And then you get married and you have to be somehow an expert all of a sudden and know exactly what to ask for. So, of course, it probably makes some women less stressed out to just focus on the other person and not worry about what happens to them. But then this other person won't know what is going to make them feel good at all.
SPEAKER_01And you brought up several really important points there. One is that we don't often know what brings us pleasure or what we like if we've done no self-exploration or not felt any freedom to have a sexual relationship with ourselves. That's we've heard this on the podcast over and over because it is something I feel strongly about. And then in a partnered relationship, being able to communicate that with no knowledge is is nearly impossible, right? So that's one point. And you brought up accelerators and breaks because you've you've been listening to my stuff, right? And you've read Emily Negospie's book, Come As You Are, which we're gonna have to do another episode just on accelerator and breaks and ons and offs, and and what you're referring to is the things that kind of turn us off sexually. And so what you're saying, which is so true for so many women, is that a big break or an off is just not having that understanding that you can experience desire, pleasure, and be sexual, you're you're unable to embrace that part of yourself, and then it's that's a big, big off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. The fact that they don't even know what works for them stresses them out, and then is another off. And so, because now sex represents something where they feel frustrated. The more I talk to women who got married around the same time as I did, who grew up in a similar situation, toys and lubricants and everything is seen as like kinky and weird and crazy. And so they're so limited now in what they can enjoy. And also they don't know what's they've never had the time to explore what's going to make them feel good.
SPEAKER_01Let's let's talk about that flipping the switch piece because I deal with this in a lot of consultations with women where they have a similar upbringing as you're talking about, or a very conservative, strict upbringing with a lot of um no, no, no around anything sexual, even normal sexual arousal or normal desire or any of that is very much off limits. And then they get into a married relationship or committed partnership and find it very difficult to turn that switch to on because it's been off for so long. And this is a very common scenario. So if you're listening and you're thinking, wow, that's exactly how I feel, or that's exactly that's it, that's it. That's it. You are not alone. I mean, this is a very common theme that I hear with women, and it can take a lot of time and energy and just self-awareness to look at the things that affected you and made those off so strong, how to unravel and untangle that to then get to being able to say, I can turn on, and it's good for me to turn on, and it's okay for me to turn on, and this is the way I was made to do so. But it's a lot of learning and then unlearning, and then learning again. It's not an overnight process.
SPEAKER_02No, I'm still unraveling so much. And another thing that I see a lot in these rooms that I'm in is this it's been forbidden for so long that anything that they did to explore sexually before they got married was this crazy forbidden thing that made it fun and exciting. So then now that it's allowed and not only allowed, but encouraged by the community, now it's not fun. And now it's like, what is the I don't enjoy this? So that's another like on the other side of the coin, I'm encountering that a lot. And um what do you do for those women too?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good question. And I think that comes into you know, eroticism. And for a lot of people, when I say the word eroticism or erotic, they immediately are like, ooh, ah, you know, that's not me. I've not that it's almost like a dirty word, and eroticism is not a dirty word, and it also it's it's just your sensuality and how you experience the mystery around, you know, your sexuality. And there's a lot to it, but but to your point about the forbidden or it's enticing because it's you know, uh has a mystery to it, and you know, it's the same as like why people get excited about having sex in different places or trying new things, you know, there's a mystery and a newness, and that that awakens your eroticism. And so what happens is we have this no-no, bad, bad, and it's kind of enticing to our mystery, to the eroticism, to our curiosity, right? Our normal curiosity. And then we get into a committed partnership or a marriage, and we sort of set that aside like eroticism's no longer important, or it's not part of the uh the big picture. And yet, what we know, especially from Esther Perel's work, is that long-term relationships need to fuel that eroticism and mystery to maintain that excitement in sexuality with one other person in the long term. And if people could allow themselves and give themselves permission to explore that piece of themselves, that would be a game changer. So let me get specific, maybe about just in two ways, talking about sensuality. I think that we often don't even engage with our sensuality. We're so hurried and busy and focused and stressed and overtired that we don't allow ourselves to even engage our senses, what we see and taste and imagine and touch and hear that thrills us or gives us delight. We talk about this on the show about giving ourselves, you know, permission to really be intentional about what delights us or what sparks us. That kind of practice carries over into the bedroom. Recognizing what sensually awakens you and then bringing that into the bedroom can be really helpful in this piece of eroticism. Just say, let's just do touch. So whether you use a massage candle, people keep asking me, What are you talking about? I've never heard of that. I just did a workshop and I brought one. They go, Are you kidding? I've never seen that. But it's very sensual because you heat it up and then you can pour it right in your hand and massage it on your partner. And that some people really enjoy that, or just stroking a feather along your partner or touching through clothing. It's it's almost like just getting out of the box a little bit, playing with temperatures. It's these are just simple ways of bringing the sensuality piece in with intention, right? On purpose, kind of like what I'm talking about with the pleasure practice of just really intentionally notice what delights you. Then you can bring that to the bedroom too.
SPEAKER_02That yeah, the idea that like if you can think of something and it sounds fun and creative instead of this, like, is that weird? Is that crazy? Like, no, everyone, it I think a hard thing for a lot of women to understand is that everyone's doing crazy stuff at home. Like that you're not this only person alone. I remember hearing stories from people about like crazy environments in which they had sex, or um, or stories is so freeing because you realize you're not alone and wanting certain things or thinking of certain things. And um, that's why I think it's so much better when we can talk about sex openly, especially with other people, because you don't feel so isolated and um and and weird and taboo on your own.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. And and the rule of thumb, the rule of thumb is if you consent and your partner consents and it's pleasurable for both of you, anything goes. Anything goes. There's really no bounds to what happens between you and the privacy of your space. If both of you consent and both of you are have pleasure with it. We don't need to compare to everything else we see or hear, but it is helpful, I know, to have context for ideas or things to try, or maybe positions, or those kind of things. Find a books that you know that I recommend or someone else, so you can get a little information to kind of play off of. The same with fantasy, you know, people get so freaked out about fantasy, and and yet some of our fantasies are just not always what we want to do exactly. We're just using our imagination. And sometimes they are things we really want to try, and it's it could be really exciting to share that with your partner and experiment. They may say, uh, that's not for me. Okay, then they don't give consent, right? But they may say, Oh, wow, were you thinking of that? Let's try that. That sounds so fun.
SPEAKER_02It's supposed to be fun, or and the LCU didn't realize that there's more to you too, that you have a separate brain that's thinking of separate things all the time. That's really exciting to a lot of partners. The fact that you are thinking about things in your in your own brain. Because I think a lot of if talking about gendered relationships, I think men grow up fantasizing well, especially in like conservative communities. Uh, from what I've encountered in my personal experience, is that it's more common for men to be fantasizing and watching things that give them ideas. And so they have all the they come to the table with so many ideas and thoughts in their head. And women who've been told no their entire lives, they haven't they have so much catch-up work on fantasizing that it's like working a new organ. It is literally working a new organ, but it it's you're having to learn a new muscle.
SPEAKER_01I love the language of that. And I I agree a hundred percent about allowing ourselves to use that muscle of sensuality with our imagination, and then you know, and bringing it into our relationship with our partner. And the other piece of that is is that everybody wants to be desired. Everybody wants to feel like they're desired. And so often, you know, women feel like they cannot be the initiator or they can't ask for sex or initiate sex or um want sex more than their partner. And all of that is is normal sexuality, normal sexual behavior. And yet a lot of people, yeah, have been sort of raised up to think that's not okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I didn't grow up with even married women talking about anything like that. So and but now, but then all of a sudden when you're married and they'll they'll start making little innuendos and and stuff, and and but still it it's not comfortable to talk about for a lot of women I've encountered.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Haley, what have you heard about pain and sex?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, this is another one that comes up a lot is at bachelorette parties, especially when people are sharing advice. It it's painful at first, maybe for the first month, but then it's great. And and so so many women go into it just thinking, okay, I just gotta get through the marriage night. I gotta go, and I've just gotta get through the honeymoon, and then things will be okay. And they keep thinking if I keep having sex with pain, it'll eventually mean that there won't be pain. But instead, I feel like if that just enforces a certain routine in your sex life where that isn't fixed. And I think that just comes from not being able to communicate what you like and you're so stressed out, you just go, Well, whatever. I'll do what that other girl said, and I'll just focus on giving him pleasure and grin through the pain. Oh dear. Isn't that sad?
SPEAKER_01Well, this is heart, this is heartbreaking, and this is such a common, common mistruth that women tell each other. Let's talk about what the truth is. Sex should not be painful. Even the first time, it might be uncomfortable because it's new, and also the the reasons that it would be uncomfortable is okay, my three mantras, not enough arousal time, not enough lubrication, positions that are not the most comfortable for a woman. Even the first time, if you are allowing for enough arousal time for your body to prepare for intercourse, and if you have enough lubrication, I'm a big fan of lube, we all know that. I highly recommend people use lubrication the first time they're gonna have penetrative sex. But okay, not everybody does, but that's a key because if there's not enough lubrication, there's too much friction, and friction can cause pain. If it's a little uncomfortable the first couple of times as you get comfortable and decide what works for you, you know, that can be fairly common. But pain is not, and we don't want to let that go on and on. I meet with women who Who've been married 30 years, have had pain the whole time. And they just tell me, I thought it was, I thought that's just the way it was my whole, my whole life. And I just want to, I want to weep. It is not normal. It's not okay. And we need to stop trying to communicate mistruths to women. Yeah. And it's so important.
SPEAKER_02Like the I I grew up thinking that's just how it is because that's how it's seen in the media. And that's how it women talked about it. It's so sad because it should not be like that at all. Now, when I hear things like that, I'm like, actually, wait a moment. No. Or I won't embarrass anyone. I'll like pull her aside. But that's that's really dangerous speech to be getting in so many women's ears. And and going off of that is also consent itself. Like the idea that consent still exists in marriage. It's not just whenever he feels like it, and you're like, well, that great. He won't like that. We have to do that. And I've encountered more than an okay amount of women who have to endure that. So um yeah, I and that's something that could be communicated to our the men in our lives too. Like if you're raising sons, you know, that it because and so many men in these conservative environments get taught their whole lives, like, wait, wait, they get so excited. Um, if they have been waiting for marriage, they're just like, oh my gosh, when I get married, I'm gonna just do it all day, all the time, without any thought of what if if she would want to at all. So I and I've heard women say, like, oh, well, he's home and I'm tired, but like I have to go because he wants to do this. I'm like, no, say no, you can say no.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Consent never goes away, no matter where you are in the relationship. So let's revisit that again because I hear this same scenario. Uh, I just came up against this with some women in part one, is what you're describing, feeling like you're obligated to have sex when you don't want to. Obligation is a major desire killer. And so you want to learn how to respond in those situations in a way that communicates what you would like, what you would not like, and what you would like for the future. So, what do I mean by that? You can always say, Hey, I really want to connect with you, but I'm just I'm exhausted right now. Could we let's try to connect tomorrow at this time or what have you? Or, gosh, thanks for asking. I would love to put it on the calendar, you know, for Saturday night when I know I can kind of prepare and we can really enjoy one another. Or another option would be to say, you know, I don't have the strength or energy right now for sex, but I would love to scratch your back and sit together or play a game or something else that's still connecting. Oftentimes when we want to say no, we just like retreat to separate, you know, ends of the house or room and and create a wall. It doesn't have to always be the response. The flip side of that is what I hear from women is do I, they'll say, Cindy, do I have like, am I allowed to say no to things sexually that I'm not, I don't want to do, I'm I'm not comfortable doing. Absolutely, yes. So again, you both have to consent with an enthusiastic yes, or it's a hard no. It doesn't matter if you're in a committed relationship, if you're in a married relationship, any kind of partner, it doesn't matter what kind of relationship. If it's a no for you, it's a no. You're never obligated to do anything you are not comfortable doing.
SPEAKER_02And and on the enthusiastic yes element, like there's so many. Um, I was I was I was seeing this the other day, and it kind of blew my mind too of um it it has to be an enthusiastic yes. Like it's still seen as like you're still forcing your own will on someone else when they say no, let's connect tomorrow. And you're still going to keep pawing at them and controlling and see if you can get a different reaction if you just keep doing poking them for the next 15 minutes, because that is still that's gonna give you an obligation response out of the other person.
SPEAKER_01This is a really good scenario to bring up, Haley, because this is what people see in mainstream porn. Yes. This is very common scenario. So let's address that. The common scenario you see in mainstream porn is that if you can, you know, cajole, like you said, or uh push or continue to badger or continue to go after a woman, she will change her mind, she will have sex, and not only that, but she will orgasm and and it will be like the best thing of her life. Well, porn is not reality. The problem with people seeing this kind of scenario over and over and over and over is that then their mind believes that this is normal life, and it isn't. This is make-believe life. Seeing this kind of force working, so to speak, or making sex happen really can give people a skewed idea of the reality of what life looks like in normal people's lives.
SPEAKER_02I mean, a lot of women have seen or read 50 shades of gray. Anyway, to take like a card out of BDSM and all that, it's it's the person is never like even the person that's being um like the submissive or whatever is is still in power because they signed up and asked for that. And so it's not something that's happening happening to them unwillingly. And so if that is exciting for a woman to be cajoled and poked, like to be pursued in that way, but it has to be her power, it has to be her being like this would be exciting to me, is if this is how it played out. And that makes it a willing participant, an enthusiastic one versus someone who does who said no, communicated this isn't me saying no, but really wanting yes. Like I would rather do this tomorrow. You're just going to have that obligation response instead.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And I hold the whole, let's just revisit the 50 Shades of Gray in BDSM is that people who enjoy BDSM and those kinds of uh sexual activities uh heartily encourage consent and very much have it very clear and a safe word. And there's a lot to it and it is structured like you're talking about. So it's very different than the scenario we're talking about. And so I just wanted to make that kind of a little clearer. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because I I just I know so many women who talk like it's a common complaint, I feel like around drinks where it's like, I'm so tired, but he like kept going. So I was like, okay, and now they have to deal. And I'm like, that's that's not okay. And not only is that gonna hurt your sex life, but that's gonna build really unhealthy relationships in your marriage and in your home. And I if you have kids, I think your kids see that. And um, yeah, so, anyways, feel I I'm on team, like, feel free to communicate and don't feel obligated.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think you're right on saying what that often does is builds resentment. Yeah. And number two, the thing I hear, oh, like just over and over and over again, is women saying, I don't want to respond to physical touch, or I don't want to engage or encourage physical touch because I don't want it to lead to sex. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's so common. So common. And the issue with this is this is a big issue. Couples learning how to have non-sexual affection. And every time, you know, there's affection, it doesn't necessarily mean we're going to have sex. A lot of people enjoy affection or want more affection, but sometimes they put their, you know, their boundary up over it because there is an inability in the relationship to have non-sexual affection.
SPEAKER_02You also have a saying that's like maybe you should approach it like seeing the dessert menu at a restaurant. Like, I'm pretty full, but you know, we'll see if like it sparks my hunger to see the dessert in front of me. And like, how does that differ from the obligation of like, let's see if I can just get turned on if we just keep going farther down this? Or like maybe I'll maybe it'll work. Like, I'm tired, but he wants to let me make sure I understand what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01There, these are two different scenarios. One is you've said no, and then you have sex out of obligation, versus the dessert scenario, which is responsive desire. Okay. And if this is new for a listener, please go back and listen to the desire episodes. But responsive desire is you sort of get into it, you kiss, you hug, or touch, or whatever you want to do. And then your mind and body respond, and you're like, Oh, yeah, I want dessert. That's a normal way to experience desire. So it's not always tapping you on the shoulder. You might have to give it a little run on the menu, right? Peruse the menu a little bit, experience some arousal, and then you desire to have sex and not out of obligation.
SPEAKER_02This isn't a great segue, but I was um there's also like a lot of physical things that that isn't talked about at bachelorette parties or women who have not been exposed to sex yet before they get married. And um, I remember at my own wedding as I was leaving for the limo at the end of the night, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's over. And I'm I'm clutching at women next to me that I know have had sex. And I'm like, what do I need to know? Like, no one's telling me anything, and everything people talk about is so veiled, and the advice I'm getting is so weird, and I'm just like, I need a tactical manual here more than I need just like weird language. Yeah, so certain things surprise me. And one girl actually gave me like good advice. Well, not advice, but just a warning that I would have not have known about, and I would have been like, what is happening to my body? Is this normal? So though that's also just beyond just like if you're having you're enjoying it or anything, there's so many just like physical things that are surprising when you are first exposed to sex.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, because it involves fluids and bodies, fluids, so many different kinds of fluids. I love it. Okay, so what was the advice she gave you as you were running out the limo?
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, she just said, and she said it in like a weird veiled language. I had to be like, you have to explain. She says, What must what goes up must come down? And I was like, What are you what's going? What are you talking about as I'm getting dragged away? Wow. I'm assuming she's she's referencing semen, right? Yeah, she's talking about sperm going up, and then and you never see this in the movies. You don't know that the sperm comes back out. You just assume it's like absorbed into your body.
SPEAKER_01And this is actually a all of these are such normal, normal questions and normal things to talk about and know. But yes, with any kind of ejaculation, right? Any semen ejaculate is gonna, it's not gonna all be absorbed into your body. So it's gonna seep out, you know, it's going to possibly drip down your leg. It's going, you're gonna go to the bathroom and wipe and you're gonna see it, you're gonna have it, right? On top of your own vaginal lubrication adding in. So it's just so funny that we can't talk about these normal bodily functions and prepare people to just know what to expect. That's that's normal and right and okay.
SPEAKER_02Just shows how little I had been exposed to, but I I'm trying to normalize talking about those kinds of stuff because then it's not we then you're not seeing sex as weird and gross. Then you're just seeing it's our human bodies, and this is how they're all designed, and everyone's experiencing that same thing. So I'm trying to normalize it as well as like learning about your body's smells that can happen after sex and et cetera, and just practical things. And following the Vulva Gallery on Instagram, hearing other women's stories is really helpful.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. That's a great account to follow. I I usually I repost them quite often, and uh, it's called the Vulva Gallery, and it really is all about the diversity and normal vulvas, how they can look and what they experience and people's stories. It's a it's a great account to give you really normal framework around the diversity of vulvas, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And the fact that the first time I clicked on it, I was like, whoa, I don't am I allowed to be following like is it bad to be following it? And I'm like, wait a second, these are just vaginas, and I have one. And why do I see looking at this as like, oh no, like is this just even following them has helped me unravel things and unlearn things in the way that I see my own body in sex.
SPEAKER_01When you expose yourself to good education, it's you're you're going to see images of real bodies, right? The Volva Gallery is a lot of drawings. You have to be educated, and that involves seeing some images. Doesn't mean you have to Google everything and get freaked out. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing, so that people can have a safe space to receive the information that's curated, you know, for them. But it is it is interesting to hear you say just looking at normal vulvas was almost off-putting. And also that that click of being able to be let yourself be on to receiving the normal images and information that it's okay and it's a good thing, and this is educational. I think that's really good language around that, Haley.
SPEAKER_02I'm just learning more every day. I'm I hope if anyone is out there listening to me, like go do some research. It's great. And thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_01This is a lifelong learning because we change and our bodies change. So I'm still in the learning process, too, you know, and I'm in the over 55 crowd. It's a lifelong journey, our sexuality. And so now's the time to start. There's Haley's encouragement to you to get yourself educated so that you can embrace your sexuality with joy. And as we wrap up, then Haley, I like to ask us something that just delights you day to day. You know, we talk about the pleasure practice on this podcast. Would you be willing to share something that just brings you pleasure day to day?
SPEAKER_02Honestly, walking down the I I live in Pasadena and it's really lovely at night. There's just all the smells from the trees and the flowers nearby just become really um strong. And so there's this gorgeous tree that has star jasmine wrapped around it. And I know at night, if I walk by it, it's just the most incredible smell. And that is just it really gives me pleasure. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I can just kind of picture that and smell it, and it's just a sensual experience to yeah, yeah, that's wonderful that you stop and recognize that. I love it. Wow. Well, community, I hope that this has been a conversation that is helpful for you and gives you ideas for just continuing to give yourself permission for pleasure.
