Permission for Pleasure
A podcast to educate and equip women with the information and confidence they need to express, experience and enjoy their sexuality. Cindy Scharkey RN, BSN, brings her 35+ years of experience as a healthcare professional to open the doors to healthy conversations about sex. This is a community where you can listen and learn to give yourself permission for pleasure. Visit www.cindyscharkey.com for educational blogs and newsletter.
Permission for Pleasure
Your Body After Baby
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Wendy Powell, founder of MUTU, joins me for an honest and hopeful conversation about women’s bodies after babies. We talk about sex, exercise, and all the challenges women may face after carrying and birthing a whole human. The truth is that while many physical issues are common, this does not make them normal! We discuss the difference and how you can move toward a healthier body. Whether your baby is 6 weeks old or 16 years old, this episode is for you! You’ll hear real talk, practical advice and encouragement for you and your body.
www.cindyscharkey.com
Wendy Powell is a globally recognized leader and pioneer in the women’s pelvic health industry. She is the Founder and CEO of MUTU, a medically recommended digital health tech platform for mothers worldwide.
www.mutusystem.com
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This is Permission for Pleasure, and I'm your host, Cindy Sharkey. As a registered nurse and educator for over 30 years, I've seen the real need to break the silence surrounding sex, especially for women. This podcast is about opening the doors to healthy conversations about sex. What I found is that when women have comprehensive education about sex, their self-confidence soars. And when that happens, women can truly express, experience, and enjoy their sexuality. They give themselves permission for pleasure. Welcome to Permission for Pleasure. I'm Cindy Sharkey, your host. I'm delighted that you're joining me today. And my guest is Wendy Powell, a recognized leader and pioneer in the women's pelvic health industry and around the world. Wendy, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for having me, Cindy.
SPEAKER_00Wendy is the founder and CEO of Mutu, a global medically recommended digital health tech platform for mothers everywhere. Right, Wendy?
SPEAKER_01Yes, everywhere and at all stages of motherhood, yes.
SPEAKER_00Love that. And I've heard you say uh I made Mutu because I needed MooToo.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Would you just share a little bit about your journey in starting Moo and why? Why Mutu?
SPEAKER_01I'd love to. I'd love to. So my babies are 14 and 16 now, so not so much babies. But when I was pregnant with my first, with my daughter, um, I was at that time a highly certified personal trainer and in fact a specialist in pre- and postnatal fitness. So I kind of thought I knew it all. And then I had my babies, and essentially I had two great pregnancies and two terrible births. Um, so yeah, so what happened for me was that I had massive postpartum hemorrhage in both cases, um, and that they're only like 20 months apart, my kids. And really, it was about so I went into those pregnancies, into those labours and births, fit, healthy, um, understanding I thought my body and how to keep it strong and prepare it and recover afterwards. But what I've discovered was that I knew nothing about recovery afterwards, which sadly is where many women feel that they are. And I found myself in a position, not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically as well. Coming out of that experience, feeling like I'd failed, feeling like um my body was kind of a bit broken, like I hadn't achieved at all this intuitive, instinctive process that's that's that we're supposed to be able to do. And I really felt like a bit of a failure. I was like, I went into this like super fit, I knew what I'm doing, I'm strong, I'm I'm I'm healthy. And and I felt anything but I I often think that when we when after women have had babies and whatever that looks like, we should feel the sort of the most strong, feminine, powerful, and incredible of our lives, and we kind of don't. We often feel the opposite of that. And so I felt that I, even though I was this certified postnatal specialist trainer, I had my pieces of paper, um, my certificates, but I didn't feel prepared. I didn't feel prepared for the physical issues, and I definitely didn't feel prepared for that emotional psychological recovery. Then sort of pretty much the same thing happened 20 months later when I had my son. And and so it was really through that time when when my kids were really small, but I was like, somebody must know the answers to this because my industry at the time, fitness, so we're we're talking about sort of 2005, 2007, my the industry did not serve me, it didn't have the answers, and I what I had been trained to teach, what I was certified in, wasn't providing the answers. I kind of already knew it didn't have all the answers for my clients, my personal training clients, and now I knew it for myself. And so I was like, well, somebody must know, right? Somebody must know. So I started studying biomechanics, I started working with physical therapists, pelvic health specialists, with sex therapists, with midwives. I was like, somebody knows about these parts of a woman, a woman's body that fitness seems to know nothing about. Um, and it was from there that Mooti was born. So that's what I made.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. And I I just think about these women that have navigated, especially these last two years, uh, so much alone. And I know that Moutu has followed a group of women specifically in the UK, at least a hundred women, right? And so just listening to your story and then thinking about so many of the women in the last two years, and they didn't have their traditional access, right, to their healthcare providers, to their support system, even all of it. And so I'm wondering, I I just I was so excited to hear that you were following this these women specifically, and I'm wondering like what came out of that for you? Like, what were the uh not takeaways, but what struck you about really following a hundred specific women through this unique time?
SPEAKER_01Well, this was an incredible trial that we did, Cindy, and what it was was a clinical trial we did with a hospital, a university hospital in the UK. And I work quite closely with um pelvic health physical therapists around the world, and and and essentially right at the start when this whole thing, so kind of like March 2020, um when when lockdown sort of first started to happen and all that stuff started to happen, I got this call from the hospital and they were like, Can you help? Because we cannot see our outpatients. So they had um uh relatively new mums who had given birth in that hospital, who were booked in to see the women's health physios for, so this would have been for incontinence issues, for prolapse symptoms, for diastasis recti, core issues, for painful sex, all of these kinds of issues. They were seeing physios and they couldn't be seen because of lockdown. So the team said to me, Can you get them Mutu instead? Because we can't see them. So that was what we did. So we kind of we scrambled and we we made it happen, and we got a hundred women. The women that participated in the trial, they were kind of handpicked by the physio team. They were ones that were dealing with these pelvic issues. Um, and so we we got the Mutu system, which is essentially an at-home um self-help um exercise and coaching program to get them to get them through uh core and pelvic floor recovery strengthening. Um, and we followed them through, and the results that we had were incredible. Um, we kind of knew that we have tens of thousands of customers, so we kind of hoped that you know that we knew that it would work. But what was what was most telling and what was really interesting from the physio team as well was they were like we sent you the women that we were treating for, let's say, diastasis recti or incontinence. We didn't even know they were experiencing painful sex, we didn't even know they had prolapse symptoms because we hadn't asked them those questions yet, right? But because what we were doing was we were surveying them across all of these different symptoms and saying, What are you dealing with and and is it getting better? Um, so that was really um enlightening for us, but also it was really interesting for the hospital because, and especially with things like painful sex or prolapse symptoms, because what was happening there is brand new moms don't really report that stuff. It they're like, we wouldn't see these women till months later, possibly years, if at all, with these issues. But you're asking them right up front and helping them deal with it. So that was really, really interesting.
SPEAKER_00I think it's so good for mamas listening, friends of mamas, everyone to hear that these are while sadly common, not normal symptoms to be experiencing. And so I think of all these mamas who don't talk about it or it's not brought up by their provider, of course, and not realizing that while your friend may have experienced some of this also, that doesn't make it okay. It doesn't make it normal, right?
SPEAKER_01So true. And like you say, there's this distinction between common and normal. And when I say prolapse symptoms, like many women listening, you may not, you may not have been diagnosed with a prolapse. You may, you may or may not know that you have that. But what I mean by those sort of symptoms are feelings of heaviness or bearing down or dragging or kind of like a tampon's falling out, kind of those sort of feelings, and that might change throughout your monthly cycle as well. So those sort of symptoms and and think wetting ourselves a little bit when we sneeze or go, it's it's so common that mamas everywhere are. They might mention it, but they'll kind of laugh about it or just go, oh yeah, well that that's just what happens because we think it's normal, we think it's inevitable, we think that's just what happens when we have babies, and it doesn't have to be.
SPEAKER_00No, it doesn't have to be. Yes, let's say it again, out loud.
SPEAKER_01You can change these things, you can change these things.
SPEAKER_00You know, I'm an old uh labor and delivery nurse and women's health nurse for many, many years. And I guy, we've been fighting this battle for so long, sadly. I think that's a lot of why I started doing what I'm doing, because we need to talk out loud about these things and educate more and more so women don't continue to just just survive, suffer, and and just ah, just all of it. Oh, I don't even it just drives me absolutely baddie. I know it does you too. That's why you started Mewtwo, right?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I do think I want to circle back and say, I guess as an old L and D nurse, I'm so sorry your births word's so difficult. And I I know that for so many women, like you're saying, it's physical symptoms, but it's also emotional symptoms. And there's just a whole transition that is so enormous for women in this stage, right? I just want to say right off the bat, women, you carried and birthed a whole human. You carried and birthed the whole human. So let's just put that right out there and give you a high five and all the praise hands, because that's what we should say to start, frankly.
SPEAKER_01We should, we should. It's hard work giving birth, however you do it, however it turns out, you did great and it's hard work. And and I think you know, the key for me, what I found after that, as you say, it's it there are physical, there are multiple physical issues that that that might occur afterwards, but it it's also that emotional and psychological part. And for me, that was kind of when I was started to to pivot my study, pivot who I was working with and talking to sort of beyond the realm of fitness and and sort of going much further than that. And really what I found was that the big missing piece for me was this connection, and what I mean by connection is we cut off from parts of our body we don't feel good about. So let's say you know you're going for your papsmia, you know, and it's not that much fun, but it's got to be done, it's fine. So, you know, you you you go to the you go to the you go to your your nurse or your doctor and and and you might cut off for a minute, like, yeah, yeah, just do what you've got to do, you know, I'll be out of here in 10 minutes, right? That is a human, normal, perfectly sensible place for your head to go for a few minutes when you're not having that much fun. The problem is that women are doing this cutting off for weeks and months and years after they have their baby. So they are getting undressed in the dark, they are not looking at their naked body in the mirror, they are not touching their body, they're not feeling good about it, sex doesn't feel good, it might be uncomfortable, worse still, it might hurt. All of those things are taken as that's just the way it is now. So there's this sort of disconnection that happens. And I strongly believe with all of the research and trials that we've done in teaching women these techniques to reconnect with their core and their pelvic floor and those deep muscles, is that I honestly believe we can't strengthen muscles we're not talking to. If we're not talking down there, if everything down there doesn't look like it used to, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't respond like it used to, it just doesn't feel like me, I don't feel good about it, I don't feel proud of it. It's very hard then to restore or strengthen or work with it. And so that's kind of where I started with me to what with the biggest thing I learned really was to back up and back up again and back up again, because this isn't about doing ab exercises, this is about backing up from there and building foundations and reconnecting with the parts of your body that you have sadly, whether consciously or unconsciously, chosen to disconnect from. And we start there.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's I think there's such a mantra with with our culture of pushing through. And you're you're talking about backing up. Yes. And that's so appropriate. And I do think that in so many ways, women do disconnect from their bodies. And in the transition post-baby, you're taking care of another human full time. So so much of your time and attention and focus is not on yourself, right? It's on the human that you're fully in charge of now and trying to figure out how to do it, right? And where's the manual for that too?
SPEAKER_01We might consider it vain or selfish, or you know, the whole mom guilt, you know, we know that as soon as you're pregnant, like you just feel guilty from then on, right? That's just it. Like you say, everything's about the baby. And so time spent on me, time spent on mindfully reconnecting with my body, that feels um frivolous, that feels vain or selfish, and it's so, so essential. And instead, we have, as you say, this sort of paradigm, this understanding in our culture and in our society that one, we're supposed to get back to something, and also that that the way you get there is by doing stuff harder and faster and more intensively, and it just isn't.
SPEAKER_00Well, and as we've seen over many, many years, it doesn't work. I mean, as a as a nurse, I find that so often people they don't listen to the cues they're receiving and they have to wait till their body is screaming at them to pay attention. And then in postpartum, this these uh after baby, it this is such an issue because so many things are vying for your constant attention. It's really difficult to even allow yourself, like you're saying, to sit and listen to your body's cues. What is your body telling you? What is she trying to say?
SPEAKER_01I think we we have forgotten how to listen, Cindy. And I think, you know, what if somebody isn't blessed with an L and D nurse like yourself that that is going to sort of be there for them in that so for so many women, um labour for well, pregnancy, and then certainly labour and birth, whatever that might look like, um, there's a there's a heck of a lot of that that is taken out of our hands. And that might be for good reasons, you know, doctors saved my life, you know. I'm not I'm not sort of saying that that you know, if if if intervention is needed, of course intervention is needed. But the the the sort of the consequence of that is that we stop trusting ourselves, don't we? We don't trust our body because like, well, I couldn't give birth by myself, you know, I couldn't do that. That that was taken out of my hands, that entire birthing process. So, so I think then that continues afterwards, and we don't trust our body. So, one of the I'm asked all the time, like, well, when am I ready to do this, Wendy? When should I do this? And everybody wants a number, like this many weeks or this much of a diastasis gap or this much, whatever, you know, and it it's and and and what I'm always saying is exactly what you just said then, Cindy, which is like your body's telling you. Your your body tells you when you're ready. So if if you're trying to work out or or or run or exercise, or do something maybe that you wanted to get back to that you used to love, if something feels like it's falling out or bulging, or or if it leaks, or if you pee, that's your body telling you those are signs, right? And it's it's kind of so so what happens so often is that we ignore the really obvious physical signs of discomfort or pain or or leaking, and then we and we still look externally for that validation. Well, am I ready to do that? You know, uh the doctor will tell me at six weeks, my personal trainer will tell me at this. It's like, no, she's telling you, she's telling you. And and and I work with a lot of GPs, family doctors as well, and who who sort of carry out those those checks often. And and I'm told so often that to be honest, that the mum's healing is hardly talked about. It's it's all about the baby. And it and a doctor was saying to me, she said, she said, however much I try to ask the question, when I say, is there anything else you want to ask me about? Is there anything else that's bothering you? Is you know, how are you feeling? Mom will, she said she'll always come up with something about the baby. So it's kind of that that six to eight-week check is is so pointless as to be sort of irrelevant in so many cases because very often women are going in and out of that check, and quite frankly, they're they're hardly even discussing their own pelvic health or recovery.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. I've I worked a back office for a G Y N O B for many years, and I I know very well how it goes. And I did the same thing. I'm raising my hand. I mean, we are conditioned as women to be quiet, to ever everybody's needs are more important than our own. Okay, I'm speaking for myself, but it, you know, it's like so many of us are conditioned in this way, and then it comes into this time in our lives with our birthing and pregnancy. And I just want to say, you know, we can't we can't change that trajectory, ladies. We we can we can take more ownership of our own bodies and selves. And I just want to encourage people listening. That's my heart for you, is by these conversations that you would would do that, would feel like, yes, I can do that. I'm gonna do that. So let's talk about this six-week business, eight-week business when our bodies are still healing. And I know some people are probably tuning in, you know, thinking, listen, I've tried to have sex every month since then for four months. I still can't have penetrative sex, it's still painful. What it what's wrong with me? That's usually the what I get. What's wrong with me, or what's wrong with my vagina, or what's broken? And I just want to say before as we start into this part of the conversation, you are not broken, and it's so important to pay attention to your body saying something's up, and this isn't going as planned. So pay attention. What do we need to do? What's happening? What is my body saying?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and it's uh it's like I was saying about that clinical trial, too. It's a question that is so often not even asked of women, and and similarly, they often won't bring it up. So sex hurting, sex being uncomfortable postpartum, sex hurting postpartum, again, common, not normal, not okay. Um, as you rightly say, you are not broken. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you. Sex is not penetrative, sex is not something you owe anybody by a certain time. Um, and and it's something that you have every right. And this is the crazy thing that so many women forget, isn't it? It's like you deserve a body that works and that feels good for you. You deserve for sex to feel good for you. That's kind of the point of it, you know. And it's kind of so so if that is not happening, please, please get help. Get, as you say, something your it's your body telling you. It's your body giving you clear signs. So a first point of course, certainly, if there is definitely is if there is pain and if there is discomfort, the first thing we give ourselves is time, obviously, time and healing. But if there is pain, see a pelvic floor or women's health specialist, physical therapist, or physio, and they will be able to help you. Okay, so that that's sort of certainly the the the always the first thing. Our body should that should not hurt. There's there's no circumstance when it's like, oh, there's pain, I must do more of that. It's like, no, that's never the case.
SPEAKER_00Right. Can you repeat that? There's pain, I should do more of that. That does not compute. Do you do you guys hear that? That doesn't go together, right?
SPEAKER_01That's not a thing. No. So if there is pain, we stop doing what hurts us. We should always do that. And and we we back up, we take time and we get checked out. Um, now, I mean, for the the reasons for that, for that postpartum pain, one one might be time. You just need more time, okay? To restore, to heal, to relax, to feel like you want to. You don't owe this to anybody. Um, and definitely just because the doctor said, hey, six weeks, babe, you're you're back in, you know, you're back and ready. That that means nothing. So, one, it's up to you, and it's it's when you feel good and when you feel ready and and and and nothing else. There are obviously other reasons that sex might hurt. There might be issues of uh vaginismus, there might be issues of fulvodinia, there might be cystitis, there might be other internal problems. This is why, if there is pain, please, please see a specialist physical therapist. Um and there is also a lot that can be done around reconnecting with your pelvic floor, with your core and your deep pelvic floor muscles, and learning how to connect, release. Because very often Kegel's pelvic floor exercises, it's not about the squeeze.
SPEAKER_00Oh, listen, if you're listening and you did not hear my episode with Heather Jefferson. Coat on sexual pelvic health. Please go back. Please go back and listen to that. So, yes, reconnecting and with your whole pelvic floor. Your pelvic floor is not just about carrying a baby and birthing a baby. It is about so much more for your lifetime.
SPEAKER_01Yes, for everything. You know, this is this is what supports us. It holds us strong, it holds pee and poop in it. It gives us good orgasms. It births our babies in some cases. It's this is important stuff and it should never be ignored. It shouldn't hurt. And if it is causing you discomfort or pain, then we absolutely need to address it. The releasing element of the pelvic floor exercise or a kegel or however you want to think of it, engaging your core, all of those things, these are the things that we talk through breath by breath because it is a it's a breathing technique, essentially, at first. That's where we start, you know, to sort of teach this reconnection and do your pelvic floor exercises engage your core. How many times have women heard those phrases? And yet, how many times has anybody actually explained to you what it feels like when you do it right and what it might feel like if you're not quite doing it right? Um, you know, we we just sort of hear this mantra of do these exercises, engage your core, you know. But well, what is that? What does that feel like? What does that look like?
SPEAKER_00Exactly, exactly. And I do want to say back in that episode, Heather Jeffko did walk you through a proper pelvic floor cagle, because people think cagles is all the, you know, kegels is not always the answer. And as Wendy's bringing up, it's also the relaxation. It's not just being able to tense, it's being able to relax. I'm actually doing one while we talk because it's like, no, I can't stand it. So let me Wendy's laughing at me. Let me backtrack Wendy just a moment because I I want to just backtrack to sex post baby and enter three things here. Uh please use lube. I just can't like go do this episode without her. Please use lube. Remember that even if you've had if you've had a C-section, it doesn't matter because your your whole pelvic floor has been holding a baby and growing a baby for nine months. And it's it's in some ways traumatized. It's it's meant to do that and can do that well, but it's also goes through trauma doing that, and so to speak. So use lube. And also I just want to bring up the arousal piece, Wendy, because I think women, because there's so much in our mind and the baby and distraction and and also fear, let's just call it out. Fear, especially for penetrative sex again, like, oh, I'm you know, either you're dreading it or you're afraid, maybe you're excited, all of it. But when we're fearing and have anxiety, it's very difficult for our body to go into arousal. Meaning all the things it needs to do to prepare to put anything in the vagina. So take your time. I almost want to encourage people to not even have penetrative sex initially, just have some warming up, arousal, yummy other connecting sex that's wonderful, and leave that for a little bit later when you're more healed and ready and and and more engaged with your body, like Wendy's talking about. How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. It's it's it's it's like we said, it the first thing is time. If there's pain, go get checked out, right? If it's just not working for you, if it doesn't feel good, if it doesn't feel comfortable, sex is supposed to feel good and comfortable. And so if it isn't, we adjust until it does or we back off, right? So as just like you're saying, arousal, lube, different positions, take your time, take your time, connect with your pelvic floor, learn how to release and relax those muscles. Because when we're at all those things you just said, fearful, a little bit worried, anxious, you know, is this gonna work? Is this gonna hurt? Is this gonna feel different? All of those things, well, all of those things are gonna have the effect of contraction on every level, emotionally and physically, contraction. Um, and that's not what we need to have comfortable, pleasurable sex. We need the opposite of that. So it's that that that element around learning to um reconnect and and release and relax through the full core at the pelvic floor is so, so important. It's something that that we teach at Mooti where we, you know, it's like literally breath by breath. It's like if we're gonna do it for a 12-minute session, we'll talk you through every inhale and exhale. Because until you until somebody explains to you what that feels like when it's right, how are we supposed to know? And so often we think of learning how to to use or or connect with our pelvic floor is just about squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. And so what we end up with is a hypertonic, a two-tight pelvic floor. I often use the analogy of of you know our bicep muscle. If if we've got our bicep muscle all turned on and strong, that's great until we need our bicep muscle, and then we've got nowhere to go, right? It's like it's already turned on. And so many women are dealing with a hypotonic pelvic floor. So that that sort of too tight, contracted all the time, it's it's probably not conscious. You don't know you're doing it, but because you are worried that sex might hurt, or even just outside of that time, you're worried you're gonna pee yourself. You're that there's all these sort of literally contractual reasons why you're hanging on and we need to let it go if we're gonna be comfortable and functional again.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm just thinking of what I hear so often, and I'll get messages from women who've had C-sections, so a surgical birth, and think because they've had a surgical birth, they think, well, that's I'm different than someone who birthed vaginally, right? What do you hear around this topic from your community? I would I would love to hear it because it is such an issue for women feeling like, well, I shouldn't have any issue with with sex, penetrative sex, because my baby didn't come out of the vagina.
SPEAKER_01I think where this needs to start is to start to understand that our core muscular system is an integrated whole and it includes our pelvic floor. It's all part of the same system. So let's say, for example, when if you've had a cesarean, if you've had a C-section, there will be, we talked earlier about sort of disconnecting, not feeling things quite sort of brain to muscle connection kind of thing, then if you try to engage your core like your Pilates teacher tells you to, you're not going to feel much because a lot of because sensation has been lost, there's numbness, there's tingling, there might be discomfort, there's a lack of sensation around that C-section scarf. So it's, and so you might not feel that, but you might be able to feel something going on in your pelvic floor. And then if you had a vaginal birth, then maybe you switch that around. But the point is that it's part of the same system. Your pelvic floor has been impacted, it has taken a large load for a long time, it is impacted and it will be affected. The hormonal shifts are still going to affect it. So all of those issues around tensing, contracting, anxiety, discomfort, um, sort of potentially painful sex and all the worries that might go around that, they're all still there. C-sectional vaginal birth. So yeah, it's very much it's understanding that that system is an integrated whole. And also what we teach is to kind of give you that reassurance in that, for example, if you are when you're doing these sort of breathing exercises and connecting deep core muscles, transverse, and pelvic floor, if you can't feel one of those bits too well right now because you've recently had C-section or you've recently had vaginal birth, so you may have have uh sort of less sensitivity or feeling, but you're feeling it in the other place. You can kind of your brain can go, it's okay, it's working. I just can't feel that bit right now. So it's kind of it gives us that reassurance that again, what is it supposed to feel like when I get it right? And if you're comfortable with that and you can connect with that, then you can kind of then all of that sensation will absolutely return because you're literally you're just firing up those connections again.
SPEAKER_00I just keep coming back to the word you use integrated, integrate. I think sometimes we we chop off pieces of our body, our uh it's like we zero in on our pelvic floor or our you know, our we have a headache or what have you, but it's all like you're saying, our body, our mind, our brain, all of it is integrated into a whole. What a revolutionary concept, you know. If we could, if we could really think of ourselves in that way.
SPEAKER_01So true. I mean, I think we do, don't we? It's kind of um, oh, I need to do my pelvic floor exercises, right? That's Kegel's. Oh, I need to do core work, oh, that's Pilates class. Oh, I need to get strong, I've got to go lift that. You know, I I need to get cardio, I need to go right. We we we divide ourselves up into this sum of parts when actually we are this integrated whole and it all works together. It all works together and it has to start by backing up foundations. Build the foundations and everything else is just a layer on top. So, whatever you want to do, I mean, a lot of I know a lot of women sort of worry about will I ever get back to doing that, or will I ever will will sex ever feel good and comfortable and easy again? Will will I be able to do that kind of workout again or that kind of activity, whatever it is, that's why we come back to foundations and then everything's just a layer. There's nothing that's out of bounds, there's nothing that you will never do again. It's just we back up and we build foundations and then we we gradually move forward.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I do want to circle back to you. We we keep throwing out hormones a little bit, but I want to remind me, remind women that your hormones are in flux all through your pregnancy, after your baby, if you choose to breastfeed, whether you do or don't, all there's so much fluctuation and change and transition going on during that time. And those things have an effect on the whole integrated system. And I just want to remind people that that's a factor. And you we we can't just poo-poo that. It's it's a big, it's a big transition time. There's a lot, a lot going on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it is, it is, and as you say, it's we're always in fluctuation as women, aren't we? Through our monthly cycle, through pregnancy, through postpartum. It's you know, I mean, I'm I'm solid in parametopause these days as well, and it's just kind of, you know, it it we're always we're always in flux.
SPEAKER_00You know, you know, I know I say this over and over, community, but we change and fluctuate, and our partners are also changing and in transition. And sometimes, you know, it doesn't serve us to just think everything's gonna look the same as it did, or that it should, quotes, look the same way that it did. The change is not to be thought of as negative. It is in our culture, but truly, if we could switch that little mantra in our heads and allow for the growth and change and for things to look different and for that to be good and okay and not necessarily negative and bad.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I think the narrative that we are fed through the sort of through culturally through the media, social media, whatever, of this attitude of getting something back, get it get your body back, you know, it's kind of we're we're moving forwards. There's nothing, there's nothing that needs to be gotten back. You know, we're we're strong, we're amazing, we're at another phase of our lives. That sort of narrative around, in some way, returning to something is is not helpful for us. It's judgy, it's shaming, and it doesn't help. It's like we're we're incredible and strong and sexy and fabulous, and we're going that way, not backwards, right?
SPEAKER_00Love it. And I do want to say if you're partnered, I it's all about communication. Like to say, I'm sexy and fabulous and awesome, and I'm also changing, and things are gonna look different, and things look different on you too. And so, what are we what are we gonna do with that? Let's keep talking about that, let's revisit this conversation often. And I do think this area of uh post-baby sex, especially, it is vital that you're communicating with a partner, especially if you're in a heterosexual relationship, because they don't have a uterus and vagina. Okay, so they they truly don't get it all unless we talk about it and communicate and inform and educate and then work together towards whatever the new exciting normal, so to speak, or season's gonna look like, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, it is. It's so about that communication and it's about not just hearing, but believing. And if you don't believe it yet, keep saying it till you do. You deserve a body that feels amazing, you deserve a body that works, that functions, that does what you want it to do, that holds stuff in when you need it to hold stuff in, that has fun when you need it to, that you feel good about, that is strong, that moves you. You you deserve all those things. And and this is the thing that I feel most passionately about, I think, which is this distinction we made earlier around common and and normal, Cindy. It's just like you do not have to put up with that stuff. You deserve better and you can have better.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's a great place to just wrap up because I love that mantra. And I'm also going to keep encouraging my community that we don't need to, like Wendy said, no more pushing through. We need to back up. I love that. So tell people, Wendy, uh, how they can find you and MooToo and just uh a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, absolutely. So Mutu is M U T U. I'm often asked, so I'll tell you it comes from Mummy Tummy. That's kind of where it originally came from many years ago when I made up the name. So it's MUTU, MoTo System, and we are Mutu everywhere. So Instagram, Facebook, MooTusystem.com. Wherever you go, we are MoToo. And yeah, it essentially MoTo System is a 12 module program that is available online, so it's all through your phone, through your tablet, through your through your laptop, and we walk you through this process of backing up and building those foundations and layering on top with a really safe, expert-led community where you can ask every question you want to. The program that you go through is video-based, so there's a whole bunch of video. Um, yes, it's me talking you through every breath of every of every of every engagement. Um, and also we we we are very um very cognizant throughout the process of the importance of the emotional and psychological connections and about rebuilding that confidence and that that sense of of deserving, that sense of what our bodies um should and can and we deserve to have them feel like. So that's a big part of it. So everything through MewTo System is accessed through our private membership site. It's a secure area, and we have a group in there. So this isn't a Facebook group, this is this is very much in our own secure community. And I'm in there regularly, as is also we have a community manager, Nicole, who is a human being, not an AI robot, a human being who is a mom of two, and a certified postpartum specialist who is one of only a hundred Mooty pros around the world who are personally certified and trained by me in all Mootie System technique. We work a lot with physical therapy, so yeah, so you've got an expert in there. So every like, should it feel like this? Is it supposed to feel like that? This is happening, is that normal? All of those questions are our members can get answered. And you get access for a full year when you come in.
SPEAKER_00Wow, amazing. Love it. Well, on this podcast, we have a pleasure practice where we are trying to really stop and notice and pay attention to what delights us, what brings us pleasure. Would you share something that delights you day to day, Wendy?
SPEAKER_01I'd love to. It's actually a big part of what I always talk about in my program, and I'm always on social media doing. Um, it's so simple, but it brings me such joy. Uh, I walk, I hike, Cindy. That's what I do. I have two dogs. Um, I live in quite a rural area of the UK, and it is my therapy, it is my meditation, it is my so first thing I do every single day, like before anybody else is up, I'm up and me and the dogs are gone. And until I've had my walk, which is my sort of communion with nature and and and my own sort of version of meditation, because you can't sit and meditate, you see, when you've got two dogs that need walking. So they won't let you. So I combine the two things. That is mine.
SPEAKER_00Love that. Oh, that's so good. So thank you so much for being with us and for sharing your heart and about Moo Too, Wendy. It's just a joy to speak with you.
SPEAKER_01I loved it. Thank you, Cindy.
SPEAKER_00And mamas, friends of mamas, families, women everywhere. Will you share this episode with one woman you care about? Just let's support each other in this spirit of really not pushing through, but backing up and being our whole integrated selves. That is going to help us give ourselves permission for pleasure.
