Romanistan

Morena Pedriali Errani: author, activist, and circus performer

• Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens • Season 5 • Episode 33

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Morena Pedriali Errani was born and raised in Ferrara, by a Sinti family of circus artists and owners. She is also a circus artist, an activist for Romani rights and part of the communications team for Movimento Kethane. She has been a finalist for the Premio Campiello Giovani and Premio Chiara Giovani. She presented some of her writing at the European Parliament in Brussels, through the Roma association Phiren Amenca. She is the author of Before You Close Your Eyes and The Sky Above of Gaza Doesn’t Ever Color.

About Morena’s work

Roma crushes: Morena’s family and Laura Grecale

You can book 1:1 readings with Jez at jezminavonthiele.com, and book readings and holistic healing sessions with Paulina at romaniholistic.com.

Thank you for listening to Romanistan podcast.

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Romanistan is hosted by Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens

Conceived of by Paulina Stevens

Edited by Viktor Pachas

With Music by Viktor Pachas

And Artwork by Elijah Vardo

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to Roman stuff, where your friendly neighborhood. I'm Alina and I'm Ted. And today we're here with Marina Petriali Arani, and we are so excited.

SPEAKER_03:

Morena Pedriali Arani was born and raised in Federal by a second family of circuit artists and authors. She's also a circuit artist and activist for Romani Rights and part of the communications team for governmental ethics. She has been a finalist for the premium capital Giovanni and Premier Tiara Giovanni. She presented some of her writing at the European Parliament in Brussels through the Roma Association Ferren Amanda. She is the author of Before You Close Your Eyes and The Sky Above Gaza Doesn't Color. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, we're so happy to have you here. So let's start with some basics. Tell us about yourself. Where are you from? Where's your family from? What's your visa?

SPEAKER_01:

Hi everyone. So you also hear my daughter, Ciamma. She's a five month also. She uh she's uh she is wanting to participate. I am Morena. I am Morena, I am 29 years old. I am a writer and uh street artist from Italy. I come uh from uh this uh both uh Sinti and the Roma family. Uh my Sinti side, let's say, is the closest one uh is uh where I was born uh and raised in. And um my my Roma side is a little bit uh uh more far away. Uh my Sinti side uh of the family um has been in Italy since at least uh uh 200 uh years, but uh there's this like story between the family, we are not originally from here. Of course, we don't know uh where we come from exactly because uh to this day we are still nomadic. I think like uh we are part of that uh 3% of uh still Romani nomadic groups, and uh let's say for non-Romani speakers we are not nomadic by culture, but because we um we can say we adjusted to it uh through forced nomadism. And uh yeah, uh our vizza is um called uh it actually doesn't have a uh Roman name uh because others in Italy called us uh through uh an Italian word that's uh circolanti. Uh circolanti means like the one who travels because uh even inside the C community we are the only one uh still traveling, so we are distinguished by it. I come from a Circus family, so so yeah, this is my Cinti side of the family, and uh my Roma side is a little bit uh more complex uh situation uh because uh it's uh the as I said, a little bit uh more far away. I I don't know, I are just uh uh family histories, and uh I know for sure I have his ancestor who claimed to be Roma and I was not from uh from Italy, uh but um uh she changed her name as soon as uh she came to Italy and Italy, particularly because um uh she's like uh in the Italian uh documents, it's like she didn't exist uh until 20 years old, that the age that she came from she came here and changed her name. There's an interference, and um the the path of uh rediscovering my uh my Roma side of the uh of the family has been really hard and also a little bit painful because it was uh almost completely erased from the Italian uh history. Uh Italian Romani communities uh are uh still living uh a really uh I would say federal oppression. So uh stories like mine are uh unfortunately really common. And uh yeah, I am also very grateful, as I was saying to Yasmina uh before the interview, uh to be able to address this uh this question because uh in the past uh I I want to let's say make uh some uh clarification uh on some points, uh some clarity. Sorry, uh on some point that uh I was uh a little accused uh in the in the past. Uh I was specifically accused of like faking this history because it was so complex and uh and really uh you know I was sharing step by step, but sometimes uh it was also a little bit contradictory. And uh while I know that uh for uh people say Italy, this uh could seem uh could seem like a little strange, as I said, it's really common here. Um because uh sorry, because uh actually I um just uh there were people saying that I was claiming different places and witnesses. This was uh not uh I want to clarify this, this was not uh uh done like uh uh because I was uh inventing it. Uh if you know a little about uh European Roman history, you know that uh we can just simply fake or not fake. Uh, no one in Europe would fake being uh Romani, I can assure you. And um, but because uh it's uh still ongoing journey that I share step by step. So I apologize if I was not uh clear enough about it. But uh I'm really grateful that uh I have more clarity this day. Sorry, my daughter is like uh loves to speak, and uh um and yeah, I'm really grateful for this opportunity to finally address it because uh it has been uh I I know that at some point we all uh were called like uh race faker or similar is like a friend on TikTok. I saw, but uh to me it was uh particularly uh hurtful because uh uh it's uh a really really painful uh journey. The one that we are doing uh uh rediscovering our identities uh from like uh the total erosion that uh oppressor did. So is uh uh are you listening to me because she is doing some panic right now?

SPEAKER_00:

No worries, yeah. It's um it's all just audio for the podcast, so don't worry, you can do whatever you want, whatever she needs.

SPEAKER_01:

When she hears me speaking, uh she starts speaking too.

SPEAKER_02:

So all my interviews uh like yeah, and uh that's all.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm I'm really grateful to be able to talk about it uh finally in these terms.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we're so grateful. I mean, I uh you're definitely not the only one who has had a confusing story. I remember I I thought I knew my grandmother's uh family name, and then I turned out that it was not, it was like a conjured name for false paperwork. And I was just like, oh, it was just such a weird feeling because I was like, oh, this is the name. And I was like, oh no, it isn't. It's like sometimes these things out later. And yeah, it's it's strange how these things unravel. So thank you for sharing, and it absolutely is a rite of passage for especially any um woman or female presenting activist to be accused of race taking. It's it's a rite of passage.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, do you consider yourself a rebel and why or why not?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I actually love the word in Italian that's rebelde. It's uh quite similar. And uh actually, yes, because um uh I live uh in a really problematic country where Romali lives are like considered like nothing. We are like less than animals for the Italian government, and just uh being able having the privilege to uh because uh it's still a privilege, uh unfortunately in Italy, uh, to stand up and say, hey, I am really Cinti, I am really Romani. Uh it's something that uh brings a lot of uh consequences, but uh it is also something that uh really uh does uh yeah uh your family. So yeah, I like to consider myself one.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that. We love talking about family trades, and we know that you have some wonderful trades in your family. Can you tell us more about your connection to the circus and anything else you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01:

So, yeah, I was uh uh I grew up and uh was raised uh in a Chirkus community. Uh my family has used the Chirkus since like uh, as I said before, uh at least uh 200 years. Uh we know that before the Chirkus we were um sellers. Uh we were oar sellers, and uh then uh some of my ancestors uh bought uh the chircus uh structure from another Sinti family. I don't know if you ever um heard, I think yes, about uh Moira Faye. She was my aunt, and uh so it's uh that family. We are quite uh uh famous in the circus world, so uh so yeah, it's something that uh uh is really part of me, and uh I am not uh working in the circus right now. I was uh until uh the pandemic, but I hope to return uh to come back as soon as possible. And with my daughters, uh of course she she has to to grow grow up uh grow up there. What did you do in the circus? I was doing uh aerobics, and uh my family was uh we call Atoni, it means a clown. Um my my grandpa was um a lion tamer, so we all have something uh different. Um my aunties and uh mostly uh women of the family um do acrobatics, so it's like uh a more feminine uh thing, feminine activity. Um but yeah, we actually every one of us uh uh does everything because we are family um led uh chicklus, so you have to know like everything for every uh for ever uh every emergency. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03:

We're impressed that you've written and published two books with wonderful reviews. We haven't been able to read them yet since they're not translated. So can you tell us and the listeners about the premises of your two novels?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, uh so the first one uh was uh uh like uh a resume uh of uh uh this uh journey of the research about uh my family, especially. I have been working uh since uh eight years by now um in um Romani memory uh in memory of the Holocaust. Uh I've been doing some uh uh projects with Italian and uh European um organizations. So the first book was uh based uh on uh these researches and uh is uh the story is inspired by my family and others in family testimonies, and especially um is inspired by my grandma, Fiametta, and um because she was uh uh fighting in the Italian resistance uh movement and um yeah it's basically about uh her decision to also she was uh uh risking uh being deported and everything we know. And the second one is also the ongoing genocide of uh Palestinian people, uh especially it um it is narrated uh by uh two little girls, two twins. One uh of the two is blind and the other um like uh lead the leader, the other one. And uh she like described to her sister to her brain sisters, sister uh this um this word that actually doesn't uh exist, like uh she tries uh to protect her. She says, for example, that the sound of the bombing are fireworks or the white sheets where the bodies of the martyrs uh are um placed into uh are uh bright gowns. You know, she creates this uh this kind of world that doesn't exist. Also, um it was uh uh taught to show the absurdity of uh of the situation of the occupation uh uh by the highs of uh of the children mostly. And uh um I like to say when I speak about it that uh uh I am trying uh to set a goal goal to donate some of the earnings to uh Gazawi that uh fundraising. Uh so if uh someone is interested, uh just uh follow me and I give you some details uh when it's time.

SPEAKER_00:

That's amazing. Um yeah, I mean uh we can't wait to read them and on that topic. Uh do you uh have any suggestions or like are there any is there anything listeners can do who would love to read it in English to help with the translation process? We know that it's not uh so straightforward to get translation. Sometimes you have to get other publishers involved. Is there any way that we can support that?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, uh so the first thing uh would be uh finding a publishing house in uh uh English-speaking uh country was uh interested in publishing it. It's the first uh step um ever. And uh then this publishing house would have to uh contact my publishing house and just set it. Um I don't know if outside Italy uh I think that most of the publishing houses already uh do have uh translators. Uh in Italy we don't have them all the time. So um uh if there's one uh already set uh by the publishing house, uh it would be uh perfect. But uh yeah um if not we have to find one. But yeah, the first uh thing ever is find these uh abroad, let's say, uh publishing houses.

SPEAKER_00:

So, listeners, if you are connected with any uh publishing houses in English speaking places, or if you're a translator of Italian to English and you have connections to your publishing house already, pitch these books because we need more Romani literature translated into lots of languages so lots of people have access.

SPEAKER_03:

Can you tell us about what led you to writing?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I actually always uh uh have written. Uh there's not like uh an ex moment where I started to write, I just uh simply always did it. And uh uh of course when I was uh like little uh I was writing mostly to uh find a place where I had a voice because um as some people who follow me knows uh uh um I was living in this uh really uh difficult situation uh due to the prejudice, to the anti-ziganism. And uh uh with the time uh it became something that uh uh really um is part of my activism. So uh right now is uh like the way I am uh trying to fight because it's the thing I know more, and I hope uh I am uh doing it right.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome. I was like that it's a little chickadee as well. I don't remember a time when I decided to write. I just immediately wanted to start, like was writing. Um and I love that, I can still relate. Um so I have run a lot of your work through Google Translate because like I just have always been so interested in your work and I love what you have to say. So I've been a longtime fan. Um and I noticed that a lot of your work feels so steeped in the money and sentient spirituality and symbolism. It's a very magical world as well as a very real world. It's like there's not a lot of distinction between the two, which is also how I like to think the world. Um, would you like to share a little bit about your inspiration for your work and what maybe your spirituality means to you with um your day-to-day life or your art?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so uh in my family, spirituality has always been uh I use the topic. Uh my aunties uh uh taught me and do uh palm reading and copy leave the reading since like always. Um and uh there's uh even this particular story because uh they used to do it uh uh back in the time of the war. Uh so they used to do it like to make a living to escape uh oppression, but uh they were doing it uh to the wives of uh um fascist uh fighters, so there was this um this particular um story, this particular story, and uh and yeah, they they were the bosses, they are still now, and uh they taught me like uh everything I know now. For some times I also did taros, but uh I have to say that uh in my family no one was doing them, so uh it's just uh universe uh taught me I I was not uh meant to do them. So yeah, it's something that uh I really explore, do love to explore, and uh also sorry, also something that uh uh I was uh really grew up with. Like uh uh in my first book uh I put uh all the um magic thing uh of course the one you can uh share with uh uh on uh on family, um that uh that I knew because it is something that really um shaped my identity and it's something very important to me. I'm it's something that uh I don't really speak uh a lot about uh um in the internet because we have these uh uh I don't know about your family, I know that every Roma family has like set like um some uh laws within the sense, but uh in my family um we can't speak about it outside, we can't uh share uh the specific um it was or what we do. And uh yeah, but it's something that uh I really love and uh uh about it I want to say that uh I also want to buy your book because I'm really really interested in it. So I I hope that I will be able to translate it uh back in in Italian while you translate uh mine in English. We will be wonderful.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my gosh, we'll send you a copy. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you for sharing that. Art and other kinds of cultural expression can inherently be activist work, especially when preserving and sharing a marginalized perspective. And you're also involved with Roma and Senti political activism in Italy. Can you share about the political situation in Italy right now and which Romani and Senti rights organizations people should know about and support?

SPEAKER_01:

That's a most topic because uh Italy is actually one of the most problematic countries in Europe for Romani communities. Uh we have this uh um reality uh that uh is called uh so-called nomad camps that were um first built by governments uh uh to Roma, uh especially Roma and uh uh initially other marginalized groups uh like migrants, but right now only Roma. They are called nomad camps because they say as we are nomads, we don't need a uh real house. We have been here like uh over uh 600 years, but uh uh to them we are still nomadic and don't need house. Um these uh realities are really complex because uh there are different types uh of uh nomad camps. Some are like more um I like uh better, uh some other are like worse um living situations, but uh in general uh how they are shaped right now, uh they are mostly uh really uh difficult uh places to live in. Um in some of them, Romani are forced to live in like containers, and uh let's say like in the summer is uh living in a container in Italy is uh really awful. Um or like we have uh we had this problem uh with uh my community in my region because uh for two years we were um impacted by uh violet fruits and we were living in uh we call in Italian Casemobili, like mobile uh uh homes uh that were made wood. So you know, with the water uh wood um was uh uh covered in uh wait, I don't remember to say in English, but uh was uh covered in I I don't know the words in English, but uh you know um they were really uh saying uh places to live in and address uh this situation also because in Italy we are not uh officially recognized. So Italy uh uh says that we simply don't exist and so we are not uh uh to be protected or um our history is not to be told uh these kind of things. And uh and also our language uh is uh the only one in Italy not uh recognized, and uh they say because we are not really from uh from Italy. Sorry she's doing her own uh podcast, and so the situation is really bad. Right now there's this uh um national plan that's called uh Roma Plan that wants to cancel all these nomad camps but uh without any housing solutions. So we have uh almost 20,000 uh Romani in uh housing emergency, and uh most of them are uh are children, so it's uh it's really bad. Uh right now there's uh um only one movement in Italy that is uh uh working uh to find a solution and for the uh official uh recognization um and this movimento Catane, the one I was uh uh part of uh until my my maternity, motherhood. And uh yeah, this is the situation. I hope uh I was clear enough, but uh it's pretty bad, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, thank you so much. I think it's um sometimes really hard for uh uh non-Romani Americ Americans like Gage to imagine what it's like, and so uh we appreciate you sharing that because um there's uh just a lot of people have nothing to compare it to. They they can't even really imagine. Um and so we we want people to understand and we'll have links to um that organization, Movemente Katane, uh, in the show notes as well as uh Firen Amensa. And so can you tell us about your work with Sinti women jewelry makers and artisans?

SPEAKER_01:

So um I am doing uh art projects uh with uh other Romani women from my community, especially Sinti women. Um we sell uh our art products uh uh to financiate our projects. And uh uh especially right now we are trying to financiate uh a theater street theater project. So so yeah, we have um been working at it uh since the pandemic because in the pandemic uh situation in Italy was pretty bad for everyone, but especially of course for Romani. We were not able to uh find a job, find a job and make a living uh for so many months. So we had like to uh invent something new, and uh yeah, we are still doing it uh occasionally today in the local markets, and uh it's uh really uh cute because we were able to um make uh uh other people, other local people uh um know better about our history, and they were just like uh oh, I didn't know you were here, but yeah, we are here always, so it was also uh an important uh step uh uh in the local for us to you know make uh better um living for us.

SPEAKER_00:

That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03:

So we like to ask who are your Romani crushes? So any Roma that you admire.

SPEAKER_01:

Or Santi. There are a lot actually. Um I think that uh the um the one I admire the most are the one by my family because they really did uh uh create uh uh new mood from the scratch. They had uh uh nothing they were coming also from uh the Holocaust, uh, you know, and uh they were able to still dream about something new, so it was really powerful uh for them, and um also I I do love a lot the work of one of my Cynthia sisters. I don't know if you ever heard about it, but uh she's uh Laura Grecade on IG. And she's also a poet, a photographer. Uh she's uh a work artist and she shares a story, uh story similar to mine. So I I really love her and her work, and we are right now working uh uh on um children's book about uh Romani resistance. So so yeah, check her also because she really deserves the deserves the attention and um all the good vibes.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh that's awesome. I don't know if I know her work. Can you say her name again?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh Laura Grecana is the name uh you find uh uh on uh IJ.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, awesome. Yeah and then our last question we've had so much fun talking to you and your little chickadee. Um what's on the horizon for you and how can people find and support your work?

SPEAKER_01:

So I start from the uh last question uh you can find me mostly on IG because uh I'm not a really social person. The most uh uh work I do, I do it uh in uh real life. Um I'm like uh a dinosauro in technology, so you can find me on IG. I my name is Nena Errani, but I think you will uh you'll tag it, uh you'll put it uh also. And uh what's in the horizon uh there are a lot of things, uh um, especially after this first month of uh my motherhood. Um right now uh I am working, as I said, uh uh on this uh children's book and on this street uh theater show about uh Romani women in the resistance. So these are the most uh um busy projects for me right now, but I have I do have a lot right now. I I am not sharing because I'm a little I don't know what to say in English. Uh I'm we don't share things because they are happening because uh it brings bad luck to us. This is my CNT speaking through me. Yeah, and uh yeah, but uh you'll see uh everything as soon as it's set uh um it is set uh on uh on my AG, so stay tuned. Like the influencer.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, we're so excited to see what you do next. And everyone remember um if you read Italian, you can read Before You Close Your Eyes, um, which is the novel about the Holocaust and the Roma and Sinti genocide. It's historical fiction, but also inspired by your life or your your family's life. And um, the sky above Gaza doesn't ever color about the ongoing genocide in Palestine. So both super important topics. And if you want them translated and you've got literary connections, use them for good. Let's get it out there. Um, thank you so much for being here. It was such a pleasure talking with you.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you for listening to Romanasan Podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook at Romanasan Podcast and on Twitter at Romanasan Pod. To support us, join our Patreon for extra content or just donate to our coffee fundraiser, ko-fi.com backslash romanasan. And please rate, review, and subscribe. It helps people find our show. It helps us so much.

SPEAKER_03:

You can follow Jez on Instagram at jezmina.vontila and Paulina at RomaniHolistic. You can get our book, Secrets of Romani Fortune Telling, online or wherever books are sold. Visit Romanistanpodcast.com for events, educational resources, and more. Email us at romanistanpodcast at gmail.com for inquiries.

SPEAKER_00:

Romanistan is hosted by Jasmina Vontila and Paulina Stevens, conceived of by Paulina Stevens, edited by Victor Pachas, with music by Victor Pachas, and artwork by Elijah Bardeau.