Romanistan

Secrets of Romani Tarot Q&A

• Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens • Season 6 • Episode 8

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You have tarot questions and we have answers! We did this Q&A as a little extra research for our second book, Secrets of Romani Tarot, out next year, and our tarot deck, Romanistan Tarot, out the year after. Tell us what you would like us to cover next! We'd love to keep these Q&As going. Or if you want to ask us questions anytime, join the Romanistan Patreon or Jezmina's Patreon. 

Thank you for listening to Romanistan podcast. Please subscribe, rate, + review, + share with your friends! 

Follow us on Instagram and Facebook @romanistanpodcast. Subscribe to our Patreon to join the conversation and our private community for just $5 a month. Or donate any amount to Ko-fi.com/romanistan. We depend on your support to keep going. 

You can book readings and events and take workshops with Jez at jezminavonthiele.com, and book readings and holistic healing sessions with Paulina at romaniholistic.com. Follow Jez on Instagram @jezmina.vonthiele & Paulina @romaniholistic. 

Get our book Secrets of Romani Fortune Telling wherever books are sold. If you love it, write us a review. 

Visit us at romanistanpodcast.com and email us at romanistanpodcast@gmail.com for inquiries. 

Romanistan is hosted by Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens

Conceived of by Paulina Stevens

Edited by Viktor Pachas

Music by Viktor Pachas

Artwork by Elijah Vardo

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SPEAKER_05

Welcome

Welcome And Why We Asked

SPEAKER_05

to Romanist. We're your friendly neighborhood gypsies.

SPEAKER_06

I'm Paulina. And I'm Jez. And we are here with our special live QA tarot episode where folks are coming in asking any questions they have about tarot. We're really happy to write our first book, Secrets of Romani Fortune Telling, where we talked about tarot, palmistry, tea leaf reading, dream divination, all kinds of things. Now we're working on Secrets of Romani Tarot for Wiser Books, and we're just focusing on tarot, and we wanted to ask what people even want to know. And we've been doing this anyway because we've been teaching and talking about the book forever, but we wanted to host a special QA. So thank you so much to everyone who came. Anyone want to start us off with a question? Yeah. Oh,

Favorite Decks And Why They Work

SPEAKER_06

I think you're on mute.

SPEAKER_01

My question for both of you is what is your favorite tarot deck to read with and and why? I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_06

Ooh, that's a really good question. I really love the centennial edition of the Smith Rider Wait deck. They released it with Pamela Coleman Smith's name on it.

SPEAKER_03

They released it with some thing, Jez. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

We love this deck so much. And it's like her original intended color palette, which is really cool. And it comes with some of her extra artworks. What do you like about it, Paulina?

SPEAKER_03

I think it's just nice to have something that's not extremely basically westernized and stolen. It's nice to have some of her original like credit in there and to support that. But also, I just grew up reading the Rider Wait deck in general. It feels really comfortable to me. It's really easy. It's like a great base. Like once you know how to read that, then like you're good and you can basically like figure everything out and read everything else. But outside of that, it's so weird. I actually just came back from a visit to my mom, and she just like growing up had a bunch of old decks. I had no idea where they came from. Like some of them all really, really old and stained and dirty and crazy. And like some of them were brand new. And so I just feel like a used deck I really like as well. Like there's energy in there.

SPEAKER_06

I know I love an old deck. And there are so many amazing decks out there. I have a lot of different decks, and I get them as gifts a lot. And I love having I have a roll-up rolling suitcase that I have where I use decks for teaching. I also really love the Heat Hodo Tarot, which was created by oh wow, I'm blanking. Um, Tyana Lee McQuer and uh our friend Caitlin Foise did the illustrations. And it's just such a beautiful example of how you can show the cultural lens of how different practices or different cultures approach tarot. And it's such a great example of how you can just sort of express that through the artwork. And Tayana also has different names for the different suits that feel more hoodoo appropriate, and it's also a stunningly beautiful deck, in addition to being a really great thorough resource. I gift it to a lot of people, especially if they are connecting with African diaspora heritage and religion or spirituality. And people love the guidebook and the workbook. It's full of information. Do you guys have favorite decks that you want to shout out? Yeah, Samar the guidebook is so so good. Okay, we have another person joining us. I love how Tayana is such a historian. Yeah. Yeah, we're also getting shout-outs for the Ryderweight. Yeah, so it's really I'm a big fan of using the deck that you love the artwork for. Yeah, it depends on my mood too. So that's a really fun thing. Paulina, do you vary with your mood based on what you want to use?

SPEAKER_03

I think that I definitely do. I really feel like when I in the motion, it's like ride or wait deck of like, okay, like here we go, here we go. But like if I'm reading for someone that I know and I maybe am not that I I won't even say comfortable. I'm literally, you could just throw me a deck that I have no idea what it is, and I feel like I could read it at this point. But I also feel like I'll read a random deck or or something. I don't know, I can't even think of one right now. I'll just read any kind of deck if I really want to learn and like try something new with someone like a friend or family member or my partner or something like that, like just to kind of mess around, basically.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I um I do a lot of weddings and I often use the Ethereal Visions deck because it has gold guilt and it's all pastel and it feels very appropriate. And then there's another deck. Actually, I use this one too for reading for kids, but I tend to choose very light, kind of airy, non-intimidating decks for events where I'm reading for the the public a lot and maybe new people are coming to me. But when I get hired for Halloween events, I usually go with the Darkwood Tarot. Um, I love that Smara saying if I want my feelings shirt, I go to the deck. That's great. Oh, yeah, and we're seeing a shout out for the Motherpiece Tarot, too, which was one of my early decks as a kid. Yeah. Any other questions for us or anything y'all want to share about deck preferences?

SPEAKER_04

How do you guys uh use I for I don't know the terminology, but it's more like um I guess come back to me. I gotta think of the terminology.

SPEAKER_06

No worries. Yeah, if you also want to talk around it, you're welcome to. I feel like half my life I'm looking for the end of my sentence. And sometimes I just start describing the vibe. We all get there.

SPEAKER_04

We guess I can try to explain it.

Mixing Oracle Cards With Tarot

SPEAKER_04

So you have your deck, and then you have more of like other decks that's not the traditional like 78 with the major arcanas and the minor arcanas, but you have like the sort of like what you I guess angel cards of like bigger, um, and I and I have one, I just don't remember the name, it doesn't come to me, but it'll just be like kind of like an overview umbrella, I guess, of those bigger bigger cards. I don't know, a theme. Like an Oracle deck? Yes, that's what I was trying to think. Oracle deck, yes. So if you how I mean, I'm sure it's used in so many ways, but how do you guys typically practice with Oracle decks with your you know, with your readings when you're also using it with your your tarot cards?

SPEAKER_06

Oh, Oracle cards I feel like are so fun to incorporate. I tend to not use them in readings for the public so much. I don't know why. That might change, but I um use them a lot on my Patreon where I'm or when I'm teaching creative workshops or spiritual workshops where I'm helping prompt people in different ways either to reflect on their spirituality or their associations or what they want to create with. But I feel like oracle cards are such a wonderful way to incorporate something that, of course, depending on the deck, but the ones that I've seen tend to be pretty straightforward. Like there's usually a really clear word like gratitude or like strength. And um, even though we have the strength card in the tarot, not all the cards in the tarot feel particularly straightforward or to the point. And I really enjoy how Oracle cards can either feel like a closing message or they can add more clarity. Um, if you want to ask a different kind of question, sometimes people will pull them for intentions for the day, the same way that you can with a tarot card. But I think they play really well together. And you could do a whole reading using both. I have a friend, the lipstick mystic, Aura, who does that, and she just she pulls from several decks, and her readings are awesome and just you know, so uniquely hers. What do you think, Paulina?

SPEAKER_03

So I really depends on the person. Sometimes I'll ask people, and I really do say that in a way that's like this is not the kind of business that like everybody gets the same deck, everybody gets the same reading, like, yeah, like everybody's gonna be a little bit different depending on how I feel, because that's why you're here. So it's basically like if someone I'll ask them, like, do you want me to be completely honest? Like, you know, all do you want me to talk about all things like good, difficult, challenges, blah blah blah. And some people say no, some people say yes. When people say no, I usually do pull the Oracle deck out just because like it's a little less intimidating. There's not a lot of also graphics of like someone getting stabbed in the back 10 times and a burning tower and just like all this stuff. So, also for my own um personal readings, I feel like when I'm using Oracle, it's because I need the universe to go easy on me, like tell me lightly, good news first, kind of thing, and that's why I feel like yeah, like I will use Oracle decks when I feel like I need to. Um, and sometimes I would use both at the same time, especially if it's like a longer reading, like with a lot of questions. I'm kind of like, well, let me pull out some keywords like in the Oracle deck and kind of like see if they match, you know, what else, what the theme is, kind of what's going on.

SPEAKER_04

Do you

Knowing When To Stop Clarifying

SPEAKER_04

guys ever get to a point in your reading where you're clarifying so much that it's just now becomes is this like a circle either a just a circle of the same answer, or it just opens up more confusion and you just don't know where to stop. And do you ever feel that way when you're clarifying or sort of expanding on the reading?

SPEAKER_03

I can see how that happens. Oh, go ahead. I was gonna say that for me, I feel like people's lives are so so different, and yes, also the same in so many ways, like two things can be true at the same time, and they all have so many different combinations, and it basically feels like I think we don't get I mean, I I as a reader, I feel like it's hard for us to get stuck because we are looking at any situation from an outsider's point of view, and so we're like, oh, like, and if we do sense a cycle, I'm like, oh yeah, like there's obviously a cycle going on, and like it is one of those kind of you know, dog chasing the tail kind of scenarios, but I also feel like it's obviously um our job to kind of like point that out and and um I guess talk about it, and if the cards are saying that and like showing that, especially like in someone's life, then then we just kind of have to say that. If if somebody's coming back to us the same person over and over and asking the same questions, which also does happen, I feel like it's because they obviously want a different answer, and so we do see similar situations and scenarios, but they're never the same. We'll have for an example, two different people could be coming to us, and unfortunately, like this has been the thing for me recently, is basically people getting cheated on, and so there's that scenario that happens pretty often right now for some reason, but also I'm like Aries is in war, I don't know, something's going on, and then we'll go through it's it happens in very different ways. It's like sometimes we don't understand exactly why that's happening, but like, yeah, we'll see like repeat things and in the shop, like because some um sometimes I'm in like a spiritual shop or spiritual store, like I'm working doing stuff, and I'll even see customers buying the same exact crystal. Like, why is everybody buying jade? And that was the recent thing that happened. Like, everybody was buying jade in the same month, and there wasn't anything in particular that they knew about that, but it was happening, so I think, yeah, everybody's connected, and also everybody's different in their own ways. You really just have to like identify that in practice.

SPEAKER_04

I guess I guess the more you read, the more you can sense when the message is just sort of repeating itself in its own in many different ways based on the cards, and you just know, like, okay, that's enough clarifiers, and I should just stop.

SPEAKER_06

Sometimes like it can be nice to set a little bit of a rule for yourself, especially if you're reading for yourself. Some people, um, if you're drawing outcome cards, um, let's say you're doing a full spread and you have an outcome card or two, they might limit themselves to three cards and just be like, okay, this tells a story. When I'm reading for a client, if that last card is something that could be anxiety-inducing, I keep pulling cards until I feel like the sentence is resolved. Like I'm happy to end on the Ten of Swords for myself. But if a client sees that as your outcome card, even if they don't know anything about tarot, I might pull cards until I can kind of explain the context of that. Um, because as a seasoned reader, you might know exactly what the 10 of swords means for you. But, you know, things can be a little different with client work. But then also when you are reading for yourself, you might be working with your own anxiety. And that's also when you need to kind of have the um the firm, loving voice of like, I'm digging at this because I'm anxious. And that's when I take a beat and do a little um nervous system regulation. Sometimes I, if I find that the same things are either coming up in what I'm asking, or it feels like the tarot is just saying the same thing over and over again, I might do a little journaling if I'm just reading for myself and see are there any ways that I haven't considered this? Sometimes I'll try it from different perspectives. Like if I feel like the tarot is just naming something, I might ask myself, how does this card resonate as advice? You know, like the using the ten of swords as an example, naming the situation that you're depleted and ready to end this cycle is one thing and that can be helpful. But thinking of the Ten of Swords as advice, as like, what are you ready to shed? Where would you start? What's the first sword you pull out that can feel a little more generative? And yeah, sometimes it can be nice to read in the voice of someone like imagine a best, my best friend is reading this for me right now. Um, how would it go if you feel like you're stuck in your own head?

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that's really helpful to know. Yeah, because it is good to sort of feel uh whether you're stuck in your own head, or can you read this for yourself from an objective perspective? And

Intuition Versus Anxiety Signals

SPEAKER_04

and even then, if you are reading it from an objective perspective, how do you how do you know if you're reading intuitively or you if you're just reading calculating the cards and the story together? How do you how do you guys practice that or what do you do? Any drills?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, Paulina, do you want to go?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I would say that that's kind of the whole point in a way is to basically trust the process. There is no specific um like guideline, like this is one thing we we talk about, I think a lot. Like we can have this perfect guide book, like this is exactly how you do it, but really taking the time to be present and to be aware of how you're feeling about the situation, like that is the answer. I do believe that our intuition is kind of the key, and it also depends on our mood too. Every day is different. Sometimes I'm like going by the book, going by the book, because that's what I feel like that day, literally. Like, I'm like, this is what the guidebook says, this is how it is, blah blah blah. Sometimes death does mean death, like sometimes this does mean that. Like, I get really into it, and sometimes um I'll take a step back and I'll be like, Well, this is how I feel, this is what the cards are saying. Sometimes my intuition is guiding me in a total different direction, and I'm like, I'm gonna tell you both. Um, or sometimes again, two things can be true at the same time. I feel like the only really real way to I guess know is to basically keep practicing and trusting your trusting your own intuition realistically. I mean, that's how I feel. What do you think, Jez?

SPEAKER_06

I often I find intuition and anxiety or thinking feel different in the body. Um, and so I like to do something to help myself drop in first to an open space. We have a little cloud meditation that we have in the first book, but like whatever helps you get in your body, get out of your head, even if it's just for a moment, I think is good for scene setting. Checking the temperature of how you're reading, I'm definitely guilty of um being mid-panic attack and reaching for my tarot deck and then pulling a card and be like, what? Like, because I'm not regulated enough to read or listen to my intuition. So that's kind of my first thing. It's like, how's my nervous system? How am I feeling about this? Why am I asking? Um, and sitting with is there a way for me to ask the question in a way that feels a little more guidance-based and open-ended, um, just so it doesn't stir anxiety if I am feeling particularly emotional about it. If I'm not, I don't worry about it so much. Also, noticing how intuition tends to work for you. Is it like a gut feeling? Do you see a thing? Do you hear a thing? Is it like a thought that just feels like it's there all of a sudden implanted in your mind? And that also helps me, whether I'm reading for a client or myself, especially if I for me, if I put a card down and I hear something or feel a vibe, feel something in my body, usually something is happening with my senses, and that feels like intuitive information. But sometimes that might not be coming through. I've definitely um joked before that if um I'm reading for a client who's kind of rude, I notice my um intuition shuts down immediately because I don't want to connect with them. And so then I just read purely based on logic. Like this card means this. How do you feel about that? It would be also fine.

SPEAKER_03

You get there either way, um, we did have a question in the comment section.

When Someone Dislikes The Message

SPEAKER_06

Yes, from Samar. What do you do when the querent doesn't like the answers that come up? That's such a good question. Paulina, what do you do?

SPEAKER_02

No, no, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03

No. Um I it really does happen. I think it's about the delivery as well. I like to kind of prepare people, um, just because I also don't like the answers that I receive in the decks like so many times. That's why I like to kind of make it a regular process a lot of the time, where it's like, okay, let me get into a space where I could do this regularly so like I won't get surprised, and I'll I'll tell people that um ahead of time. So like I pre-plan, like, hey, you want me to tell you everything good or bad? And then that'll be my first little thing, and then moving on from there, I'll be like, Okay, I do see some challenges over here, and basically, I have seen this before, or it's could basically delivering bad news in a way, and when they don't like the answers after that, at that point, I just have to be um sincere also and like understanding and empathetic, and let them know, yeah, it sucks and it's difficult. But here are the ways, like outside of that. What's also interesting is that I do believe that everything that we're seeing, even in the tarot and other forms of divination, is that the whole point that they were created is to kind of be this like guide and like warning system and like all this stuff. So I feel like we can to a degree change that path and create our future and manifest what we want. And and some things we we can't, and we don't have power to do that. But I feel like if it's something where the person has some level of control, talking about options and ways to kind of um yeah, like just prevent some things, like if you can, or watch out or be careful, or really just emotionally prepare yourself. I also warn people about the absolute worst case scenario. Like, what if you're completely lonely, you have nothing to your name, nobody likes you anymore, you're canceled, you're on the street, you're hungry, you're tired, you're in pain. Like at that point, even if you have absolutely nothing, all you can do is give yourself some space and try to build back up slowly, take care of yourself. And you know, rebuild and recognize things and work on things. And so it's like I walk people through the worst case scenarios kind of a lot. And for some reason, that really does, I think, help.

SPEAKER_06

I think that's the CBT method to cognitive behavioral therapy, where it's sort of like, okay, you're afraid this will happen. Let's imagine the worst case scenario and sort of work them through problem solving. That's totally I've totally had a therapist do that with me before. Yeah. Um yeah, when someone does not like the answer, I feel like there are a lot of different flavors of that. I had one today. Um well, the what happened today I thought was really interesting because it reminded me of how a lot of this job is also learning how to work with people. It's not just being intuitive. The person had a really specific thing that was bothering her, but she didn't want to tell me what it was, which is totally fine. And I asked if she wanted me to read directly about the thing that was bothering her. And she insisted a couple of times that she didn't. She just wanted me to read like what the vibe was. And the vibe was very much like, baby girl, you seem like you're really struggling with anxiety because she was very stressed out about this thing. And she was like, I can't tell if it's a big deal or a little deal. And so the whole reading was just sort of like, here are things you could do to help with your anxiety. And she kind of didn't want to hear it because she was still focused on the thing that was really bothering her. So I interrupted the reading and I was like, it really seems like you want me to just address the specific thing that was bothering you. And she's like, Yeah, I guess I do. You know, because I could tell she was getting annoyed with everything I was saying, and I was like, This is not what you wanted. And so sometimes it's sometimes people don't know what they want, and it's sort of your job to help them figure it out. It can be difficult sometimes when they tell you they want one thing and they want a different thing. But we you got there in the end and it was totally fine. I think I in a perfect world, she wished she didn't want me to focus on the thing, but it was okay. We did, and it was great. Um, I've also had other experiences where some of the places I read, people might be very kind of like upper class and maybe never had a reading before. Sometimes I read at fancy events and they don't really, especially in New England, they don't expect me to cut to any kind of emotional chase. And a lot of times the cards love to do that. And so I sometimes you have those kinds of readings where you know the person, you ask if there's anything they want to talk about or don't want to talk about, and they say, Nope, I'm an open book. And then as soon as you start talking about their marriage, they're like, Nope, I can't relate to that, even though it's like they very clearly do. And you don't want to ever fight with them and be like, nope, you're lying. Like that, that would that would be really um unkind and ballsy and like not trauma informed. But they might be sometimes, and that's okay for them to have the experience they're having. Usually how I try to mitigate that is just try to be compassionate and ask them questions about what would be helpful for them around this particular situation. Um sometimes people get really defensive because they didn't expect it to resonate with them. Sometimes people get defensive because they don't know themselves what's happening. Um, sometimes people lack self-awareness. And when you're trying to introduce um probing questions about their feelings, that can feel really overwhelming. Um, sometimes it can be helpful to ask people what they're looking for, but a lot of times they can't tell you. But if they can, that's amazing. Like as much as I can, I try to have informed consent-based trauma-informed conversations with people. But sometimes they're like, oh, I thought this was just a parlor trick. Now we're talking about my divorce, what's going on? But it's which is, you know, it's fine. It's not for everybody. I'm not for everybody. Um, but usually when I use those techniques of like, well, let's pause and ask some questions, like with the example I gave talking about a marriage. For this person, it was really emotionally difficult. And I think she just needed someone to hold that space for her, but she didn't want to talk about the difficult thing that happened. And so then we started shifting into emotions. And I um and that ended up being helpful. So sometimes it's about being able to pivot and just sort of see like, is the person uncomfortable right now? Is there something I can do to make them more comfortable? But yeah, sometimes you just have answers they don't like. Like I was reading for a teenage girl who wanted to fly across the country to see what boy she had a crush on. She was 14 years old. She wanted to know if he was in love with her. And I was like, honey, most kids your age are not mature enough to have the kind of romantic relationship you want. And also don't go anywhere without your mother. And she could not have been madder. Called to complain at the store, try to get me fired. It's like, you know what? Sometimes that happens. It's like, what are you gonna do? Oh, we have another question. What

What Makes A Good Reader

SPEAKER_06

do you think makes a good reader? That's such a good question. Paulina, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03

Um, I feel like there's so many things, probably someone being genuine. So that doesn't mean like someone always being right, but I know that when I read, it's like I want someone to basically tell me the truth. Like if you really feel this, like if you can't see something, like if you're unsure of something. I also when I read, I like to use percentages, like I'm like 40% sure that's what is gonna happen. Like, you know what I mean? Um kind of like in a position where I feel that as a reader, I think that's what people appreciate, and so that's what I like to see when I'm getting a reading as well, is like just like someone being genuine, and that doesn't even mean like they have to know everything about the cards, or they have to have like the most confidence in their intuition or anything like that. I feel like it's it's yeah, just kind of like telling the truth no matter what, and I also feel like I can get messages from anyone, and like I know that around the area that I live in is downtown, there's kind of a lot of lot of people, a lot of unhoused people as well, a lot of people yelling on the street, and like I always get these messages, and I know that it's like the universe like talking to me or speaking to me. So when I'm getting a reading seat, like my cat, she knows that it's true, and so that's where I feel um even if someone is unsure about their practice, but like where they're doing that spiritual practice that I'm gonna get a message, so it's like if they're like, Well, I'm insure, I don't really know. I'm like, okay, like just tell me what you feel, like, and I feel like the message is gonna come to me, and that's a good reader, I guess. In in my book, what do you think?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I think it's a tall order, you know, to be a good reader, you have to have a lot of different skills, and again, you're still not gonna be for everybody, and that's okay. It doesn't mean you're not a good reader, but I think the recipe looks something like you know, being intuitive and having a regular practice where you can trust your intuition. Like I said, sometimes people don't know themselves, and I've had to be a little bit insistent sometimes. Someone came back to me after a year, and a year ago I gave her a reading, and um, she wanted to know what message her grandmother had for her. I was like, Oh, your grandmother really wants you to believe in your dreams. And she was like, I don't have any dreams. And I was like, I think you do. And her grandmother's like, I you have dreams. And she's like, No, I'm very happy with my life. I don't dream. And I was like, Oh, you can be happy with your life and dream. And she was like, Really? And then it kind of clicked, and she was like, I don't know, whatever who told her what when she was a kid, but that seemed her really like only unhappy people dreams seem to be a belief. I don't know if that's true, but that, you know, perhaps. But as soon as I said that you could be happy and have a dream, she was like, Oh, here's my dream. And she shared this really awesome dream for a community center, and she just checked in last week and was like, I'm doing it, and it made me really happy. And so I had to be kind of pushy and be like, I think you do have a dream to get there. She's telling me no. So it's that, but it's also that fine line of trusting your intuition and actually really listening to what the person is saying. It can be very hurtful to push past what people are saying to be true. Like you kind of gently have to nudge at things or poke at things to help them get there. So you're not just saying things in a blunt way where they can't hear them. The process is a process of discovery, and it wouldn't have been helpful to me for me to be like, you do have a dream, go figure it out. Like I had to sort of tease out, why do you feel like you don't have a dream? You know, and it was then we got there. So I think knowing how to talk to people. I also think ideally, you know, being trauma-informed, like even just reading about how to have nonviolent language or ask questions, be a deep listener, I think is really important. I also think it's really critical to be able to talk to anyone from any walk of life and be sort of bomb proof. Like you can't act shocked in response to somebody's life that feels bad. And so if some someone comes to you from totally different circumstances, having gone through something really challenging or something you never even imagined, or they're, you know, coming to you for counsel with something that's very sensitive and personal to them, you can't really freak out. And so it's really important for you to be able to hold space for difficult conversations and also be very compassionate and empathetic. People might come to you who have been cheating on their partner for 20 years and they need a safe space to talk about how that relationship is making them sad. And like you need to be able to meet them where they are. Um, and also for the most part, people are out here trying to do their best, like even in situations where we can be kind of judgmental. In situations like that, I have a lot of clients who might be experiencing something like that. Usually they're not trying to hurt anyone, they're not trying to be malicious. Every once in a while, you come across a real psychopath, but you don't have to keep reading for them. You can you can say that you're not a good fit. And I that might be another part of it is really knowing your boundaries. And so um, something that I have really had to learn how to do, especially since both Paulina and I, you know, are really clear about the cultural context in which we're reading and why we do what we do. If someone's racist to me right away, I refund them immediately. I don't want to read for them. And when I've made myself like sit through it and sit through them being a certain kind of way, I've always regretted it. And it's not helping me as a reader, it's not helping them. And so I think also knowing your worth, whatever that means, it's like what you want to charge, who you want to see, who you don't want to see, when you've met with enough people that day. Like you have to be able to say no if you're exhausted and you're like, I won't give you a good reading. I've had adorable friends hit me up at midnight being like, Can you do a reading for me, babe? And I'm like, no, I love you. I'll see you tomorrow. Like, if I'm too tired, I shouldn't, you know? So it's a very tall order of being intuitive, knowing your tools really well, knowing people really well, being trauma-informed and open-minded and compassionate, being a sort of emotionally bomb proof where you can hold space for people and knowing your own boundaries. It's a lot, it's a lot of things.

Reversals And How To Use Them

SPEAKER_06

Christine's asking, do you give any weight to reversals and readings? I think Paulina and I are really similar here, where it's like mostly we don't use them, but a lot of people do, and they're super helpful for this, for the people who do. Who in this little Zoom call uses reversals? I'm curious. What do you find helpful about them?

SPEAKER_00

I did not think I was gonna be speaking. Um I so I I usually sometimes I go through phases where I'm just not doing reversals, but when I am, I really I like the sort of um like oppositional, uh not that I like it, but it's helpful to the message sometimes. Like this, this is something that's not happening, was supposed to happen, but isn't or is stuck in a place like like the the process that's supposed to be happening isn't in some way. Um and then if it's a if it's a card that like freaks people out, it's kind of nice to see it reversed because I that helps me soften possibly what it means, like the three of swords reverse or something.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah. I I think that's so helpful. Thank you for sharing that. I tend not to use them, but I totally agree. My friends who use them tend to find them really helpful for those same reasons. So for anyone who's listening who might not be familiar, reversals just when a card is upside down. I sort of meticulously place everything right side up automatically, and my brain just won't let me make the cards messy. So um, but I also just like the nuance of it. Like I like figuring out the nuance myself personally, or based on the spread that I'm using. If something is an obstacle, I know that it's not working the way it should, which might be equivalent to a reversal for some people, depending on how they read.

SPEAKER_03

What were you saying, Paulina? I was saying sometimes I do read them. I actually haven't read them for a long time, and now recently, like I have been reading reversals a little more, even in decks that don't have reversals, like oracle decks. Now I just feel like really, I guess when I really feel like it, like I'll read it. And a lot of the time, like my default is not to, but yeah, I'm easily persuaded.

SPEAKER_06

I love hearing this too because I have definitely I mean both of us have been reading since we were little tiny chickadees. It would be weird if our process didn't change over time, and so I think even if you started off reading reversals or not reading them, if you feel like you want to switch at some point for some reason, like just see how it feels. I always like to stress that it's the things to worry about are not like how many times you shuffle or how many cards you pull. It's always, am I doing harm to myself or others? You know, that's that's the thing to worry about. But all these other little things are just, you know, they're just details. So we have another question.

Reading For The Public Without Panic

SPEAKER_06

I really want to start reading for the public. Yay! Congratulations. But I'm struggling to get over my nerves about it. Totally reasonable. I've been studying tarot for years and reading for myself, sometimes family and friends, but I'm such a perfectionist and I don't want to be quote unquote wrong in public. Totally get it. Um, what would be a good spread, casual, maybe only two cards to use for a five to ten minute for five to ten minute readings at a party, just so you can get started, not put too much pressure on? That's a really good question. I personally like more cards than fewer cards, um, because I feel like I'm getting more information. And so even if I'm giving a five-minute reading, I might do a three-card spread, especially if you want to do something really straightforward where you're doing like the situation is the first card, the obstacle is the second card, and the guidance or advice or the lesson or the outcome perhaps is the third card. And when you can set it up the framework like that for people, sometimes that can be really helpful. But I find that at party settings, um, a lot of the times people will be like, just tell me what the vibe is, because they're in a more casual place. But sometimes they'll come to you and they'll be like, Should I get married to this guy over here? Who are they with there? Don't look. But so, like, in that case, you might pull cards with a very specific, like, okay, maybe the first card represents the person, the second card represents the uh person in question, and then the third represents their relationship or their vibe. But a lot of times um for parties, I might do a full spread, but still only give a five-minute reading just because I want as much information as possible, and there's a lot for me to pitch to them that they can hang on to, especially since party atmospheres are both more casual and more busy, and their attention is a little scattered. So I try to see like where where are we vibing together? And I often ask some questions about how they relate to it because usually at a party you don't want to get super, super deep about something intense, and so you kind of let them guide what they feel comfortable doing in public, is is my approach. What do you think, Paulina?

SPEAKER_03

I have kind of two thoughts about this. Um, one of the decks that I like to use, it's called the cat the cat tarot, and my little daughter Alina actually thought this. So it's this cute little deck that's basically just a bunch of cats, and they're all kind of doing their own little thing, and you can like tell what's going on, but it really like it really like eases the the pressure, and so that's one thing I like. Also, just keep reading for free, like for if if you have energy, like if you're in that practicing mode, like just like read, read, read. Um, to help my daughters kind of learn to read, we would just put like a little sign like out on the grass area at the beach, literally a chalkboard sign that we made, or like a little canvas that we painted, and just like donation only, and like just practicing, getting to know as many people as we can, all ages, genders, races, everything, just practice, practice, practice, and that helps to ease the pressure. And then another thought that I have is it's really difficult. Um, I literally do this, like we both do this for a living, and if your social battery is not super high, like one day, like just don't even do it, like just just forget about it. Like you kind of have to, and sometimes you can't, like, sometimes you can't do that because like your life depends on it, but at the very same time, I think it does have a lot to do with that because it's a personal conversation, and so there's only so much so much conversation that we can have. It is truly an energy exchange, and if you get the sense that you're not really having that energy, then um pull back a little bit. But if you want to have that energy, like just be social in general, like wake up and be like, I'm gonna just really be social tomorrow and talk to people and ask the person at the store how their day was, just start kind of talking and having those human interactions, and then the reading should be a lot easier. Like, once you get in that kind of mode of like, okay, yeah, yeah, talk, talk, talk. This is what I feel. How are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I think that's really good advice to just keep reading. It can take the pressure off having donation only. So if they're not psyched with the reading, it's like, eh, and it might even be helpful for you to be like, I just started, I've been doing tarot for a really long time. I just started offering them publicly. And that can sometimes set the tone for both of you, where it's not like they expect less, but it's just like uh this is a new thing that I'm doing. And the usually people are a lot more chill if they're like, cool, okay, especially if it's by donation. And I think that um often they're more amenable to working with you a little bit more, especially some of the places that I read, which maybe have a kind of theatrical edge or something, people might are kind of expecting us to like entertain them or you know, something like that. And so I think it can also be, yeah, it can also be nice to be like, I don't care what number you're thinking of, um, but not be nasty about it. But um even just kind of share how you read and what they can expect can also be really helpful if you some people I find, um, I have a friend who's like, I'm not a mind reader, I'm intuitive, but I'm more interested in having a conversation with you about what the cards present as a possible path for your growth or reflection or healing. And that immediately kind of dissipates anything about being quote unquote wrong because you're having a you're having a conversation using the cards. And this is an intuitive experience and you're bringing your intuition, but it's all about how it resonates for them. And I do that too, mostly around helping people feel like they have control over their lives, because you never know how people are coming to a reading, they might believe every single thing you say, they might to to the T and not think that they can stray outside of it. And so I don't want people to think that I'm doing a magic trick where I'm telling their future set in stone. So immediately I talk a lot about like free will and responsibility and consent. And but I think another thing that might be helpful, and maybe you're already doing this, is even when you're not setting up a more official like little readings table with maybe donations or um something at a party, just taking out a deck in social situations and asking if someone wants a reading can be a way that kind of neutralizes that feeling of I'm reading in public, where it's just it's a little more casual, and it's like the step between setting up a table and having a little corner. I know someone who, and I've done this too, does tarot nights at a bar or a late-night cafe where people are just it's a little more casual. Depends on your boundaries, though. I don't really love reading for super drunk people, and so I do less of that these days. But in my 20s, I was reading in nightclubs in New York, and it's ridiculous. But that's also fun for some people. Oh, yeah, you can totally do this. Yeah, it'll be it'll be really cool. Any other questions this evening? Yeah, I mean, uh Paulina and I really do love questions. And so if there's something that comes to you later, feel free to shoot us an email. Because, like I said, we're actively writing C. Secrets of Romani Tarot right now, and we so appreciate you showing up for this QA. It's really helpful for us to think about what people might want to know. And it's also really fun to be able to share this with our listeners. So we so appreciate you and your time, and we hope that this was helpful.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, thank you so much. And even if you think of something later, yeah, like just let us know. I actually kind of if you guys have a minute, I kind of had um a question. It

Conversation Style And Party Energy

SPEAKER_03

was one of the questions that somebody asked about what they what makes them a good reader. What is that answer for y'all? Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

What do you really love about a reader?

SPEAKER_01

I think for me, it's someone who has a style that you both described of feeling more conversational and wanting to talk about insights that came through from the cards rather than somebody who's presenting it as this is fated to be, or has, you know, kind of cultivates that more almost like an authoritarian vibe. I kind of prefer to think of it as like somebody helping me to interpret my experience in a different way.

SPEAKER_04

For me, I think it's important for the reader to, and for me as a reader as well, to just take a good five minutes or ten minutes to just have a conversation and see what's going on, how are they doing today, start small with the questions and eventually tease out what they want to know or what is has been bugging them lately. And it's then it would be easier. I think that when um, you know, I think that for me it would be easier to read because I'll know what the context is more. But for me, if I were to go to a reader, I know that because it's so timed, there isn't that warm-up at the very beginning. It's sort of just sit down, what's your question? Here's the cards. And to me, that's just entertainment. I don't think that it really feels anything. But um if the I'd say that I I would have my walls up a little bit if I were to go in and share a little bit about what's happening, what's going on for the five to ten minutes. I would I'd like to just give enough context so to so the reader can give me messages that I can uh that I feel I could resonate with, rather than the reader giving me messages that they feel should be what I could resonate with because they heard my story. So I think there's that nuance difference that I feel um a reader should understand that the person receiving it is the one taking responsibility on how much am I going to take with me what you're saying versus not. And if the reader understands that, then we're in a good place and you could do my reading.

SPEAKER_06

I love that. It's interesting because I'd say, like, uh, probably 80% of the people I read for don't want to talk to me. They don't want that five-minute warm-up. If I'm asking them how they're doing, they're like, what are the cards say? Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

I really love knowing that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So I think that's interesting. I've never, I don't really go too many readings, so I don't really know at all.

SPEAKER_06

But um that's but I think that's great because I prefer having a more human chat and also just as a reader, but I think it can just in case anyone's listening and they're taking that very human and grounded approach, which I love and would prefer myself as a reader. Don't be alarmed if people are like, um, none of your business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Or sometimes I like to start off readings with, you know, 10 minutes or however long we're doing the reading, I'll do it like halfway or like a third of the reading. Like the first, you know, 10-15 minutes, I'm going to read what I see generally, and then we'll get into a little bit more of a conversational part of the reading, and we can go back and forth with questions and details. And they're like, Okay, yeah, that sounds good. So, like, I pre-plan it. I think I do that every time now, if it's like a new person, just because, yeah, just like what you said, 90% of the time, like they are not wanting to talk in the beginning, but sometimes they do. Yeah, and both are great.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think I see what you mean, like having that conversation built in, even if it's not in the beginning, even if it's just sort of like a reflect, uh, a quick reflect and a quick conversation after pulling a card, and then now again after pulling another card. So sort of like having um more context and conversation as you're pulling out cards and reading. So it doesn't have to be all like lump in the beginning, but kind of like throughout. I think that would make a good reader uh and a good experience as someone receiving it, just having that carving that time for conversation in between pulling cards.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, yeah. Cause I think that it is really important to understand the context that people are coming from. Even if you're super intuitive, you don't know the other person's life, you're not them. So yeah, you might have to be depending on how chatty the person is and how much context they want to share, readers might have to get adept at asking thoughtful questions after each card and seeing how much they want to talk to you. Anyone who hasn't shared yet? Um, there was one in the comments section. Yeah, conversational and collaborative. I love that. I think that's such a healthy way to have a reading where it's like you your free will and your opinions and your thoughts and your life matters.

SPEAKER_04

It feels really easy. Because then you have a sort of a context already, you can jump in sooner. But I I guess I don't have that experience doing it for strangers or at parties.

SPEAKER_06

So I see how that be a challenge. It's interesting too, because what you said about entertainment is um some people do see it as entertainment. Paulina and I don't approach it that way, even if they see it that way, we're still giving them a an experience rooted in our whole freaking, not just our childhoods, but the generations of the women before us who were raised to do this work. So whether or not they want a spiritual experience, like they're getting one, whether even if we're talking about something really practical. But and the other thing that can be a little challenging, depending on how you feel about things, is that you might be showing up with a lot of intentionality and um, but you're still at someone's birthday party who is not maybe not going to take it seriously anyway. I've had um people lie to me on purpose, and I'm just like, yeah, of course I'm gonna believe you at your word. I'm not gonna argue with you. Um, so you know, get if antics, antics and sue. You can try to be your best reader and still antics and sue. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I can see how like the atmosphere for you know, can have the person going in to receive a reading can be like the person receiving the reading projecting that it's entertainment when it's like the atmosphere, but really it could absolutely be something very spiritual. I think for me as somebody receiving it, I think I would need to be in more of a like a calmer setting than a party. And yeah, you're right about that former shit.

SPEAKER_06

And I've done some parties that were just so intentional and sweet. Like a lot of um most I'd say of the parties that I do are like a group of friends who would love to get some readings and they we talk about our feelings and we have a really good time, and everyone is supportive and like reflecting back to each other. And it's my favorite thing. Every once in a while I'm at a costume party and everyone is drunk and loud, and I'm just like, okay, let's try to let's try to have a moment of connection, but have a good night ultimately.

SPEAKER_04

That's awesome. I've never experienced those kind of parties that's more intentional, like, hey, let's come over, have tea, and we'll do some spiritual readings together. I think I'd love that if I could love it, love it so much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

One time I was a teenager, maybe like 14 or 15, or probably like 15 or 16 actually. And I was reading for like this Hells Angels event in LA, and I was like, Yeah, and like we I was with my cousins, my like younger cousin, like, what are our parents even letting us do? Like, they really did not care.

SPEAKER_02

They were like, Oh, yeah, the Hells Angels, like, okay, that sounds cool.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like, okay, so we go there, and it ends up being just a really cool event, and like there's just like a bunch of these bikers, and four of them like started crying, and it was really emotional, and they all kind of ended up having just a really amazing experience, and I still think about it to this today, and I'm definitely gonna write about it. But it's like you really never know like what you're gonna get thrown into. I think all people, spirituality is something that lives within everyone, whether they know it, they're close to it, they're connected or not. And so it's one of those things that, like, yeah, like really never know like what's gonna happen, but like we're probably there for a reason, and you probably have a message, even if you don't even know.

SPEAKER_06

Oh, yeah, yeah. I love that story, Paulina. Yeah, that's great. That feels like such a good place to end, unless anyone has anything else that they want to ask or add.

Self-Reading Routines That Help

SPEAKER_04

I do have one last question. When you guys are reading for yourselves, do you guys have a like um a structure or frame that you guys pull cards to, or you typically just free read and just pull out a bunch of cards and string a movie together? Or how did how do you guys do it?

SPEAKER_03

That's how I do it. Sometimes I'll pull randomly from the deck, sometimes I'll just pull right from the top. My sister has this thing where she's always the bottom of the card, like the the card at the bottom of the deck is always the one with the hidden desires and blah blah blah, and like that's the truth. And I'm like, okay, yeah. And so, like, it really is about the intention that you set. Sometimes when I'm teaching someone to do it, or my friend, they're like, Well, why are you just not pulling a random spot? And I'm like, because I like to pull from the top, like that's just how I do it.

SPEAKER_02

And they're like, You look like you're like a magician, like you're just pulling straight from the top. I'm like, Yeah, like um, we're they're like, we're not playing poker, and I'm like, that's how I do it.

SPEAKER_06

I like shuffling while I think about what I need to ask, and then I stop when I feel like I need to stop, and I cut the deck into two piles, and then I look at which one feels more it like it has the kind of answer I need. And sometimes I'll even get different energy from each deck while I'll be like, Well, this is the deck that maybe is like a little saltier, whereas this one is giving me a little more advice about how to move forward or something, and so I pull based on what I need for myself, and sometimes uh I stick to just three cards if I feel like I would like a short and direct reading, but something with nuance. Sometimes I will pull one card if I want something very clear and specific. I remember, I think I've told this story before, but I asked the deck how we should approach our book tour, and I pulled the Four of Cups, which to me felt like chill, like you don't need to overdo it. And I was like, I'm sorry, have you met me? I'm going to schedule events every day. And when it all when we were looking at the finances of like how much we spent on travel, how much we made, we pretty much just broke even. And I was like, Oh, yeah, I can see why it was like you don't need to be doing all this. Like, and we really I loved our book tour and we had a lot of fun, but we burnt out, you know? And so the card just had like a very clear answer for me, and I was like, no. But looking back, I'm like, I oh, it was so direct. And other times, if I'm feeling like I need a whole orientation where it's like I'm at a crossroads, or I need a direction, I need to really understand this, or if there's some reason where I'm really wanting to reflect, like maybe I'm doing a year-ahead spread for myself, or there's something I want to go in depth with. I'll use a full spread for myself, but generally it's like one card or three cards, or if I've pulled three cards and it doesn't make sense, I might pull a couple of clarifying cards or like throw in an Oracle card. But usually I'm sort of I talk to my deck a lot during the day. So I might something pops in my head and I'll pull a card on it and do a little journaling and then move on. So it's not always a big production, but it totally can be if you want to. And I think it can be really nice to treat yourself to a deep reading too.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you. Thanks for sharing your process and how you use your cards, both of you.

SPEAKER_06

That's really helpful.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you so much for being here and asking such thoughtful questions.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we appreciate you all.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah.

Book Updates And Ways To Connect

SPEAKER_06

Um, so this will come out on the podcast sometime this month. And we will let you know about secrets of Romani Tarot, will probably be out in about a year. And we also have a tarot deck in the making, which will be out the year after that, which is so exciting. So, in the way that I was talking about how the Hodoo Tarot is like looking at the tarot through a hoodoo lens, we're trying to do that with the Romani Culture lens, which is very exciting to us, and it's been really fun designing it with our artist. And also, if you want to keep in touch with us other ways, I have a Patreon where I post magical living things and community readings, and I host like dream clubs and circles, and then Paulina and I have a Patreon together for the podcast where um people can ask any kinds of questions if you don't want to just ask them on the internet to the world, and um and we post extra little bits there and we'll um post this early. Yeah, right now I'm just running the newsletter through my website, Jasmina Vontila.com, and so you can sign up for a newsletter there. But also um our Patreon is a newsletter as well if you want to sign up for Romanasan Podcast. And you can follow us on Instagram at Romanasan Podcast. Yeah, and Paulina's at RomaniHolistic and underscore Paulina underscore V underscore, and I'm at Jasmina.vontila.com. So those are all or not.com, sorry, jasmina.vontila on Instagram. And both the Romanasan and my Patreon also have a free tier if you just want to get notified by like what we're up to, but not subscribe to the paid tiers. That's totally reasonable. And my newsletter is free, it's monthly.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you so much. That's really helpful. Will you guys be doing more QA's like this in the near future? Maybe if you like it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

I I mean I had a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04

I like it.

SPEAKER_06

Cool. And also if you go to Romanasanpodcast.com, we have a page of resources. So if you're interested in learning more about Roma-run organizations and um nonprofits and how you can either amplify efforts to fight for human rights or other you know basic necessities or mutual aid for Roma or get involved in Romani arts and culture. There's a whole list of organizations that you can support and check out. So that's also great.

unknown

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you so much. Have a great night, y'all. We appreciate it. Thank you. This was awesome. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Good night.

SPEAKER_03

Thank

Support The Show And Closing

SPEAKER_03

you for listening to Romanasan Podcast.

SPEAKER_06

You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook at Romanasan Podcast, and on Twitter at Romanasan Pod. To support us, join our Patreon for extra content or just donate to our coffee fundraiser, ko-fi.com backslash romanasan. And please rate, review, and subscribe. It helps people find our show. It helps us so much.

SPEAKER_03

You can follow Jez on Instagram at Jezmina.vontila and Paulina at RomaniHolistic. You can get our book, Secrets of Romani Fortune Telling, online or wherever books are sold. Visit Romanistanpodcast.com for events, educational resources, and more. Email us at romanistanpodcast at gmail.com for inquiries.

SPEAKER_06

Romanistan is hosted by Jasmina Vontila and Paulina Stevens, conceived of by Paulina Stevens, edited by Victor Pachitz, with music by Victor Pachitz, and artwork by Elijah Barardow.