Stop Fearing Your Finances with Krista McLellan, Bookkeeper and Business Coach

If you've ever sat at the kitchen table staring at a pile of bills, wondering how hard you're working and still feeling behind, Krista McLellan knows exactly how that feels. Widowed and raising children on her own, she rebuilt her life by learning how money really works—and now she helps others do the same. Krista is the founder of E&M Bookkeeping Solutions, an author, speaker, and Elite QuickBooks ProAdvisor who helps entrepreneurs stop fearing their finances and start understanding them. Known for her motto, "Ignorance isn't bliss, it's expensive," Krista teaches people how to take control of their money, build confidence, and create financial freedom. Visit embookkeeping.com/ where you can also get her free money guide. 

Follow @embookkeepingsolutions & E&M Bookkeeping Solutions 

Romani crushes this episode are Krista's friend Anne's mother Ulla Gronfors and Anne's sister Paivi Majaniemi, of Helsinksi, Findland. Visit the Finnish Romani Association

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Romanistan is hosted by Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens

Conceived of by Paulina Stevens

Edited by Dia Luna

Music by Viktor Pachas

Artwork by Elijah Vardo

Transcript

Meet Krista And Her Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Romanescent. We're your friendly neighborhood gypsies. I'm Paulina. And I'm Jez, and today we are here with Krista McClellan.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

So if you've ever sat at the kitchen table staring at a pile of bills, wondering how hard you're working and still feeling behind, Krista knows exactly how that feels. Widowed and raising children on her own, she rebuilt her life by learning how money really works. And now she helps others do the same. Krista is the founder of EM Bookkeeping Solutions, an author, speaker, and elite QuickBooks pro advisor who helps entrepreneurs stop fearing their finances and start understanding them. Known for her motto, ignorance isn't bliss. It's expensive. Krista teaches people how to take control of their money, build confidence, and create financial freedom. Visit embookkeeping.com where you can also get her free money guide.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

We are so excited to have Krista here because, listeners, I have a really cute story about how we met. I a few years ago, I was feeling so overwhelmed about figuring out my finances for my business. And I was telling all of my friends that I needed a referral to a bookkeeper who understands small, scrappy, esoteric businesses because I had had some bad experiences. And my friend Emily said, Krista is your girl. And when I reached out, I was instantly comforted because the vibes were right. And then Krista told me that her best friend Anna is a Romani woman from Finland. And I knew for sure I found the right person. And I kept wanting to bring her on the podcast because every session we had, I felt like I was learning more, not just about how to run my finances, but about money and breaking through my fears around money. And I was thinking, I guess we got to have her on as an international guest because we got to talk about money. She understands intergenerational trauma around money, the ways that racism, sexism, and classism can keep you feel like you really uh can learn how to take care of your finances. And this just felt like a message that we wanted to share with the Romani community and with our Ramanistan listeners, whoever is tuning in.

A DNA Test Changes Identity

SPEAKER_01 2:17

And then a few months ago, I signed on to Zoom for my monthly bookkeeping coaching session. And Krista says, I just took a DNA test. And guess what? Take it from there, Krista.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

My entire life, I've been told I'm Greek. I've been brought up in the Greek culture, the Greek food, Greek, right? Greek, Greek, Greek. Um, my my um grandmother's made name being Stethopolis, like Greek. Well, then we did this DNA test because my mom's adopted, so we only knew half of me anyway. Um, it turns out there is not a drop of Greek blood. Oh my god. Um Romani. I laughed because when I went to Finland and I got to meet um a Romani culture, and and they kept they dressed me and fed me, and they were like, You're you're Romani. I'm like, I'm not, I'm Greek. And they're like, No, you're you're Roma. I'm like in the picture, you can see we actually look related in the picture. Uh and it was funny because I got to reach back out and say, you were right. And it was it's been such an eye-opening revelation because I've only been introduced to this culture within the past few years. Um and it's been really interesting and eye-opening. I knew very little about any of the persecution that has gone on. I didn't know it existed, it's just not talked about. But as a little girl, I had always um romanticized it and dressed up. And I'd always wanted to be a gypsy, and so it is it's full circle, funny, funny and full circle and heartwarming and eye-opening. So here we are.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, and I love that like, you know, sometimes people find out through DNA, they're like, surprise, you're Romani. And they might not have much of a context for what that means, but because you've been really close friends with a Romani person who and you know met her family and hung out there, it's like you had much more of a context than a lot of people do. And I'm glad for that because sometimes people are like, What does this mean? And how do I handle it?

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, it's definitely been it's been a fun, fun journey. And now my friend who's all we've always called each other sisters of the heart, she was like, No, you really are my sister. That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

Yeah, it has such a weird way of working itself out. Like the universe does things that are like, What the hell?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Right? It really does. And all my my little girl dreams came true.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

So, yeah, tell us a little bit about you know where you're from. And we know a little bit about where your family's from, but anything else that you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 5:05

So

Two Opposite Money Upbringings

SPEAKER_00 5:06

I grew up in the Boston area, and back in the late 60s, early 70s, you know, it wasn't a big it wasn't common to be from divorced parents. And I was. My parents were separated and divorced before I was even born. So I had um two very divergent, I don't even know they had how they had any relationship to have a child because they were very divergent people. Um, my mom had a very controlling money view. She craved the security of having a husband and being provided for. She, um, being a single mom on welfare, she stretched a dollar really far. Um, and there was a lot of stress and anxiety and fear around not having enough money. And then there's my dad, who was the free spirit, and and my dad is where um the Roma blood comes from. This free spirit who didn't trust the system, he doesn't like the government, he doesn't like traditional banking, to the point that he was frequently homeless. And we, when we were with him, we were living in a tent or in a van. Um, and it was a very insecure way to live. And he couldn't keep a dime if he had it. Never mind a dollar. It was through his fingers as fast as he got it. To this day, it has not changed. He is still her way. So I learned two very different ways of life, and um, I think I took the best of both and blended it into my own way of living.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

That's really nice. Um, I feel like, yeah, I can relate to both of your parents.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, I think a lot of us have both both of that as examples in our lives, and we don't know what to do with it. It's it's hard to it's hard to navigate the fear versus the the craving for that security. Um without being controlled. It's it's hard to navigate.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

For sure.

Widowhood And Building A Business

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Um, do you consider yourself a rebel?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

I never did consider myself a rebel, um, but I've been told I am um by my children, by my friends. Uh, and when I think about it and look back, it's like, okay, well, I am in the way that if you tell me no or I can't, well, that just let my fire to prove you wrong. Um, I also was not really good at conforming to other people's expectations of of what my life should be like. You know, I was raised where you get married and you have, you know, you get married and your husband supports you. And and I did try to follow that uh when I started out, you know, I married young and my husband, I gave everything over to him for control because he was the man and he should be in charge, right? Um, and it didn't work really well. But I didn't find that out really until he unfortunately got sick and we lost him to cancer. And all of a sudden I found out he really was terrible with money and left us in a bad situation. So then I was really encouraged to either give up my house and move back with my parents, uh, my mom and her husband, or to find another husband. And I was neither one was appealing to me. Um, I decided that no, I was I was gonna figure this out on my own. And this was a time when you know women really didn't start businesses, and if they did, they used their initials so that you know having a woman's name would not get you in a door, especially in the accounting world. And never mind being working from home, which I needed to. I had a a daughter with a heart condition, so I really couldn't leave her. Um, I needed to be available. So working from home, like you would hide it with saying, you know, suite B for basement. And I didn't do that, I used my name. Um, I didn't hide that I was female, I didn't hide that I was working from home, I didn't hide that I was a mom first, and so um I undercharged to get in the door, and I had to prove myself, and I refused to fake who I was, and I also did something a lot of bookkeepers and accountants don't do is I pulled back the curtain and would often train myself out of a job and show people that they can do this too. They don't necessarily need me. I can show you how. Like when money's tight, let me show you how to do this so you don't need to pay me. And I got a lot of flack for that, but I said, this isn't this should be knowledge for everybody. It shouldn't just be for the select few. We don't we're not born with this. We have to be taught it or figure it out. And why aren't we taught, why aren't we shown how this works? More people need to know, and so I got a lot of flack, but it's been um double-edged sword, where yes, I do oftentimes train myself out of a paycheck, but it has given me a bigger business of um helping people understand and and take that fear, that miscommunication, that that lack of knowledge, like we're not supposed to know this, to make it into a weapon you can use for yourself to defend and protect yourself against people that will either scam you or take advantage, or you know, use it. The the tax code was written for business owners. Let's use it. So that's that's my rebel.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, that's God's work. Yes, it is God's work, and I'm gonna be able to do that.

Why Money Avoidance Feels Safer

SPEAKER_01 11:08

You know, let's not assume any uh knowledge from our audience because we're just talking about how a lot of these things are just not spoken about and we're not encouraged to ask. But can you explain a little bit of like what your business is, what you do, and how overcoming, you know, the fears and issues around money that you started off with helped to get there?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

So I think growing up poor, like poor, poor, um not having enough and having money be such a it was always an argument. Even when my mom did meet her now husband, I was I was fairly young when they met, but it was this always stress around money, and you know, with my father being so carefree and my stepfather having such an issue with my dad not paying being able to pay child support because to me, he was homeless. There was no money for child support, and it was just this constant argument and in place of resentment. So it wasn't talked about and it wasn't shared information. Um, all I knew about money was that it created conflict, so I avoided talking about it. Um, I didn't learn how to manage it, I didn't learn about taxes, I didn't learn about debt, I didn't learn about any of that. Um, and I just figured, okay, you know, if you but you know, ignorance is bliss, right? Um, like I don't want to know because I don't want to have the discussion because I don't want to have the fight. So I never had the discussion with with my first husband. I never questioned his paycheck or how he was handling money. And I just put the blinders on and my head in the sand, and that's how I was, and I'll put this in quotes, happy. You know, and once he passed away was when I actually took over. I mean, not even while he was sick, not even when he was in the hospital and we knew he was coming out. I didn't even address it then. It was when the repo man's coming for my car, and it's I have to hide it, and my house is in full closure, and I wasn't opening the notices, and I didn't have enough money for oil, and here we are, winter, right? And my pipes are gonna freeze, and everything was crashing down. That's when I finally said, Okay, what what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? And what's funny is is I had started bookkeeping for people, which was not intentional. I just happened to be good at it. Um, and my husband being a firefighter, the firefighters always had other jobs, right? So I'd help them with their books. It was this was it wasn't an intentional business. But here I am doing books and yet not doing my own. Not looking at my own, not putting the dots together, not opening the bank statements, not looking at his pay stub to show that who knew firefighters don't pay into social security, which meant there was none when he got sick. Just being blissfully unaware until it didn't work anymore. And I I had to face my own issues, which helped me uh then make that a business. It wasn't just doing bookkeeping anymore, it was making a business out of helping people uh face their issues, and that's why I called it solutions because it's not just bookkeeping, it's solutions. Let's find a solution for this problem. What is the problem you're facing? Let's figure it out together, holding hands. You don't have to do it alone. Let's do this together. What is the problem that you is blocking you from being the successful business owner you want to be? And let's figure it out together because it's hard to do it alone. It was hard for me to do it alone. And so that that's that's where it evolved into becoming a real passion project that has created this crazy adventure that is my business.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

I love the way that it started. Um, it always happens like that, like just like it's it's a need, and then it turns into something real. Um, and I think that leads us perfectly into our next question. Can

Ignorance Isn’t Bliss It’s Expensive

SPEAKER_02 15:24

we talk a little bit about your motto? Or can you give us some examples that might inform our audience of how ignorance isn't bliss, it's expensive?

SPEAKER_00 15:34

It's very expensive. So by not opening my mail, I cost myself so much money. I even, I was so I had no idea anything about taxes. And so I was so afraid of filing my taxes that I didn't. I here I am a bookkeeper not filing taxes because I was afraid of owing and I didn't have the money. So I figured if I don't file, right, right, I won't owe. It turns out if I had filed my taxes, if I had done it, I would have gotten as a single mom with the situation I was in, I would have gotten about five to six thousand dollars back a year that I missed out on that would have gone so far in my world with my children. I lost it. It was it was gone. I cost myself so much money in late fees by not balancing my checkbook and looking at where my money's coming, how much is coming in, how much do I need to go out? It would cost me bounce check fees, it would cost me overdraft fees, it would cost me late fees. When I look at the thousands of dollars that went down the train simply because I chose to shut my eyes to it as opposed to face it. And what I've learned is you know, shining a light on that monster onto the bed, it turns out the monster isn't so big or so scary. You know, it's built up so much more in our imagination than the reality. And so when we do end up taking the blindfold off and facing what we see as those demons, they're really handleable. And I've ended up helping people get money back on their taxes by doing their books properly. You know, when they're not done right, you overpay in taxes. When they are done, sometimes we can claw some of that back. If they're done in a timely way, we can, you know, amend and get it back. And let's see when you look at where your money's going, you get to choose if that's really where you want it to go. Is it serving you? Is it doing what you want it to? I found out I was double paying. I had two subscriptions to some things, I didn't know because I wasn't looking. You know, he he scott had signed us up for stuff and we were paying double for some things. I didn't know because I was I didn't look. So when you look and you track and be like, is that really where I want to spend my money? And wait, what is this? And hey, we maybe that was an error. I've gotten the bank to refund me for errors, you know, or or a deposit that was I have the proof that that's not what it should be, and you underfunded my account. Let's get that money back, and that it becomes a game to me. So yeah, that I think that's the more you know, like the tax code, knowing that it was written for business owners means we can take advantage of it. So I chose to learn everything I could about taxes. I love taxes because I'm a business owner, because it means I can write off some of my everyday expenses because they're actually business expenses. So, how do we make it work to our benefit legally? And that's the fun part. I it's I gamify it.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

That is so smart. And I think that's definitely such a big part of why I love working with you. Um, I mean, you're so compassionate and so relatable. Like, I remember I was making mistakes on everything um that I had done wrong with taxes before. I didn't know what I could write off, and I like overpaid and I was miserable about it. And you're just like, yeah, I mean, nobody taught you. Like, how would you know? You were just so nice about it. And I immediately stopped flagellating myself. And I am so into the way that you gamify it because it's not like you're trying to like cheat the system, you're just learning to play by the rules so you can win, so you can succeed. And I just love that, especially in a world where it feels like the rules are very rarely written to benefit us, and so we should know the rules.

Baby Steps To Face Money Fear

SPEAKER_01 19:42

And um, so with that in mind, what would you recommend to people who are right where you were when you're describing too scared to open the mail, too scared to file your taxes? How do you recommend they get over um that big bump of fear so they can start learning about their finances to empower themselves? Whether that's like reframe or just really practical steps.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

So, first of all, know that whatever you did in the past does not define your future or who you are or your value as a person, right? We are where we are, and it's okay. It's okay. We're gonna start fresh today, whatever day that is. It doesn't have to be Monday, it doesn't have to be January 1st, it can be at 12 o'clock tomorrow. It's okay. The first thing I did is I gathered up, I had piles of mail. I sorted it into what I thought should be open, important things like bank statements, credit card statements, IRS statements, like any of those things that okay, that's giving you anxiety, right? And I first thing is I just I didn't even open it, I sorted. Take those baby steps of set a timer for 15 minutes. What is the thing that's scaring you? Just do it for 15 minutes. And for me, it was my mountain of mail. So I sorted my mail, I got rid of a ton. My next day, I did another 15 minutes of opening it, not even looking yet. I just opened and I got rid of the envelopes and the stupid stuff that was part of it. And I again I put it into piles of like things, like all my bank statements together, my credit card statements together, like the like things, so that it was less overwhelming that way. And this piles got so much smaller, which felt more doable, right? So I'm not telling you to go build a spreadsheet and code everything. That's not where we're starting. We're starting with seriously baby steps. Open your mail, look at your statements, log into your bank account. Find out if you're not used to logging in. I have a daily thing every morning. I log in. Is it where I think it should be? Is it where? Thought it was if not let's find out why. Tracking how much money comes in. Okay, is it what you thought you had coming in? Do you need to make some changes? And then we're gonna track what's going out. That's where we have the most power. We don't have a lot of power of what comes in, we have a lot of say and power over what goes out. And this is where my girls and I sat down together and they were young, they were little, they were six and eight. And we made choices together because it affected them. I looped them in on the conversation. I said, okay, we have choices. We can fight to keep this house, and this is what it costs to keep this house, and this is our home. Or we can give it up and go live with Nana. If we're gonna fight, this is what we're gonna have to do. What are we giving up to be able to pay to stay here? Is it worth it to you? And they became part of the conversation and therefore part of the solution because we gave up internet, we gave up cable, we gave up pizza, we gave up a lot of things. We gave up Christmas presents and birthday presents. That was their choice because they wanted to stay in their house, their home, stay with their friends. I felt like a failure. It still makes me cry. I felt like such a failure as a mom that I made them make those choices that I put us in that position from my ignorance. And they looked at me with their sweet eyes and they just hugged me, and they're saying, Mom, it's the three of us against the world. And that's what we did. Every week we made choices together. And if I can do it with my little girls, I know you can too. And if you're scared, we can do it together. It's okay. Find some, find a partner that can do it with you, a girlfriend. I had I had a wonderful resource as a girlfriend who when I felt terrible. And she was like, but you're doing it, you're doing it every day. And so we did. We opened the envelopes together. We we made money when I didn't put my money in the bank. Because it was fake to me, that's fake money. When you're using that card, it's fake money. I decided to cash it and put it into envelopes of this is how much we need to have a home. This is how much we're allowing ourselves for electricity. Let's be cautious of the electricity now. This is how much we need for food. And when the money was gone, it was gone. And we paid cash. We went to Unitil and paid our bill in cash. And it was very intentional. And it's okay, it's harder to do that nowadays. I find do you know places don't take cash sometimes now? It's a new thing, but back then they did. Um, but you can still do that thing of putting it into envelopes and then putting it in the bank and paying it electronically. It's okay to do that. Just know that wherever you're at is okay. You're not a failure. You have choices in front of you to make a new future, and that's what I did with my kids. And I keep saying, if I can do it, my children had to teach me how to use a cell phone. I had never had a cell phone. They set it up. I had never touched a computer until I was in my 30s. I never touched it, I didn't have that growing up. I was I'm old enough that we did not have computers growing up. So if I can do it at my age, I know you can too. And if you again, if you need help, there are resources and I can point you to them. I have some free ones on my website. I don't even ask your email. You know, like I love to empower people. So just know you're not alone. You are not alone. We were not born with this knowledge or this ability. We have to learn it and you have to choose to learn it. And I always say, if I could do it, I have I failed math in college. I I did not graduate college because I failed math three times. I am not good at math. Money management isn't math. And when we've learned that, that's huge. So don't try and be perfect. It's not about perfection, it's about progress. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Progress over perfection. And that's a really um just meaningful and also intense time that you had to experience and go through. Um, so yeah, thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that personal story.

Getting A Business On The Books

SPEAKER_02 27:08

Why is it worth it to get your business on the books? And how do you even start? And I'm also asking this personally.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

So just no, getting it on the books isn't about taxes. It really isn't. Everyone thinks it's about taxes. It's not, it's about options, right? People think staying off the books gives them freedom. Sometimes it does. You know, there's there's ways, you know, not not reporting to the government gives you some freedom because you don't want the government to track you. I get it. But then how do you buy a house? How do you get a car loan? How do they check your credit score for an apartment? Um, they want proof. And what happens when you want to retire if you haven't paid into the system, right? I put it in quotes, the system. Um, you know, the the bank doesn't care how much cash you made, they care what you can prove. Uh, when people realize that flying under the radar creates a ceiling that you can't break through. And um I've seen that so many times when I work with people, is that they're doing everything they can to not report things and fly into the radar. And and my dad is such a perfect example. Sorry, dad. He has put himself in such a terrible position as a retiree because he never paid into the system. And he now at this point in his life, he he's living in severe poverty. And I'm trying to convince him to live with me, but he doesn't want even me to control him. He thinks living with me will control him. But you know, and and I see him this winter with all he was in a massive storm and living in his car with no power down the cape, and they they it was freezing, and I my my heart broke. And these are the he made choices that put such a ceiling on his head that he could not create the success that he should have for the amount of money he's made in his life. So getting your business on the books isn't about helping the government, it's about helping yourself, right? And how do you start? You should open a business account, but you can't open a business account until you register your business. I didn't know that either until I went to open a business account because I only had everything in one bank account, mine personally. I did not open a business account until probably about 10 years ago. I didn't know I had to register my business. My business wasn't registered. I had a business, I created a business thing, but I had never legally registered it. So you can't open a business bank account until you're legally registered with your state. Now you go through the Secretary of State and you register. Some states it's free, some states cost $50, some states cost more. You have to choose a name that doesn't exist in that database, which you can search on your state's Secretary of State. I recommend also registering with the IRS, the federal government, getting what's called an EIN. And I say that so that now you're not sharing your personal social security number. There's too much fraud out there for having your social security number out there. Get an EIN. An EIN is a tax ID number that the federal government gives you for your business. You can use that to register with the bank. You use the Secretary of State and your EIN. Now you can get a business bank account. This way now you can start to have your business income and your business expenses separate from your personal. Now, all that money is still yours. It's still yours. People ask me all the time, well, how much can I take out? All of it, it's yours. It's your money, it's your business. You can it's all still yours. It's just a way of showing what the business made and the business spent that then you brought in to your personal account to spend for your personal life. And that is the whole point of being a business is to make money to support our personal life, right? So when you do this, you build in opportunities, you build in um ways of being able to get a loan, get a home mortgage, get a car loan, all while having tax deductions that you can file with your taxes. And in some cases, get money back. If you're a single mom with two kids and you're self-employed, I never paid in, so it never occurred to me I'd get money back. But guess what? It's called unearned income because now you have two children and you get money back. Who knew that was a thing? Who knew I could write off my cell phone? Who like my mileage driving around to my for my business? Who knew that was a thing? It's a thing. And I actually on my on my website, there's a free guide to that. All the deductions that you can, it's just it gets you to think about how to classify things that you're spending in your everyday life that are actually business expenses. Um, and you get to write it off and reduce all that money you made is now not taxable because of the deductions that you're taking. So all that money that you made and now you're spending personally, you know, you you end up creating a little a little nest for yourself of opportunities and possibilities. So I I say get it on the books, not for taxes, for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I love that. I was also operating my business for a long time without registering as a business and had no idea that that was a thing. And you taught me that.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

So I and in many states you can register it yourself. Some states do require um a person, a right what's called a registered agent. But that registered agent can be a friend, a lawyer, uh, whoever you want. Just know, and I see this a lot, there's a lot of places that are going to charge you to set your business up. Don't pay that ridiculous. I've seen people spend thousands for it. Most states, like in New Hampshire, it's a hundred bucks. You know, and you can do it yourself. Other states, you need that registered agent, which again can be a girlfriend. It doesn't have to be a paid-for agent. It can just be a somebody who's going to take responsibility to have all of the communications from the state. They're going to say, Yes, I take responsibility to get the communications from the state. Basically, the state saying there's no excuses. You can't say I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

So that's all it is.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

I really like what you're saying about, you know, asking for help and having a buddy.

Audits And The Yacht Write Off

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Because I know that, you know, sometimes when I do a session with you, it might be that I'm also using our bookkeeping time to also just make sure I'm submitting all my tax information because I'm scared of the government and I get really anxious when I have to submit that information for like my healthcare or things like that. And it's just so helpful to have someone where I can be like, what does this mean? And we can figure it out together.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

What I've learned, because I've been through audits from state tax representatives as well as federal, and I find that they are just people. And when you have your stuff in order, they're actually really nice and helpful. And when you make their job easy, it's it's they're good people. They're not looking, they're not looking to nail you to the wall. Um, and I've I've had many of the auditors show me tips and tricks to help my clients, and I put them into good practice of having my clients sell through audits. I had a client go through an audit and get money back. Wow. I had a client, and I think I've told you this, Jasmina. We had a little bet going. I did not want to put, she was putting her, she bought a yacht. She's a real estate agent, she bought a yacht. She wants to put on her business. I said, no, I'm not doing that. She goes, I am. I said, you're gonna get audited. She was okay. Like, no, no, you're gonna get audited. She's like, bring it. I said, if you get audited and you win, I'm gonna give you three months of free bookkeeping. If I win and they exclude it, I want a weekend on the yacht. The IRS agent agreed with my client that absolutely she needed the yacht to show her clients the view of the house from the river or ocean. Oh my gosh. Not only that, they said, Well, what about this, this, and this that goes with the yacht expense? She got money back. I was in, I it totally changed my view of as like what's ordinary and necessary is what they say. What's what is ordinary and necessary for me my business? That is a very broad term. And if you can justify it, the IRS will agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Gotta learn how to play the game.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

It floored me. It was such an eye-opener. I'm like, you're kidding me. We gotta try after this. I gave her the three months of free bookkeeping. And she did give me a weekend on the yacht, too.

Charging For Care Work And Energy

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Oh, I was so we hear this a lot from people in the spiritual industry that there's something inherently wrong or sketchy about charging for divination or other spiritual services. And so, of course, from our perspective as Romani readers, this is a survival trade that has existed for over a thousand years because of marginalization, which has created obstacles to mainstream education and employment. And so, you know, fortune telling and all of these things, tarot, palmistry, tea leaf reading, have been putting food on our tables for centuries. Of course, we're going to charge for it. It's literally our survival. But then also, like, it's it's work and it's a skill. Even if it isn't for your survival, if you are offering a service, it makes sense to us that you would charge for it. But we also hear that a lot of people have guilt or shame around charging for their work. Even if they're like, okay, I agree, like this, you can charge for spiritual services, but I still feel weird about it because it involves some sort of emotional labor. It feels like some kind of caretaking, and they feel weird about charging for that. And so we're wondering what you would say to someone who is feeling guilt or shame about charging for their professional services, whatever they are. What's your pep talk?

SPEAKER_00 38:13

So you find this more often with women than men. Yeah. First of all. Women have a hard time charging for their services. I'm in that group. I every month, and I'm trying to get better at it, have a hard time sending out my invoicing and I struggle around it. Um, I have a hard time raising my rates. I feel guilty, right? And women, all the time, you'll see women go in when they they are invoicing and they see that somebody's struggling and they're going to reduce their rates to help it. We see it all the time, right? So there is this guilt shame about um charging for what we're doing. There's two answers. First of all, money is energy, right? We're doing an energetic exchange. It used to be traded for certain services would trade before money was a thing. We would trade, you know, the the doctor would get paid in chickens. You know, we would trade what we had. And um then money came in. And if you think about money as an energy, you're exchanging energies, and your energy is worth something, and that person receiving your energy should then give back. It otherwise there's this weird lopsided void, and I don't think the universe likes that personally. I don't think it should be one way, I think it needs to be back and forth. And then if you go to, and I'm gonna put this in quotes, my Greek grandmother, because it turns out she wasn't Greek, she always told me um that the Greek word for money way back in the day was talent, or the translation was talents, and that in the Bible it was talking about giving your talent. And so for the people who did not have money to give to tithe to the church, that um they had to tithe their abilities, they you know, exchange their work. And so, whether it's money, your time, whatever it is that you have to offer, it should be an exchange. And I I have I always keep that in my head because there are times that I have this is how I got central air in my house. We did an exchange of services. I had a client who didn't really have money to pay me. However, he did have a central air unit. Sure. Yes, please, because I can't afford a central air unit. I now have central air. How happy am I? I had another client who would plow my driveway because he didn't have the money, but I don't want to shovel. I mean, I will if I have to, but hey, if I can get that plowed, sure. I have done so many exchanges that way where sometimes people don't have money, but they do want to give something. So know that your time, your trade, your expertise of that gift that you have worked on getting better at, that you have poured so much of your time and energy into learning and um elevating is worth something in exchange. It is.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

We agree. And we also we love a good bartering system. Like that's that's so great. I uh I love that you talked about that.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

I still barter, yeah. Don't tell the IRS.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Well, but no, I still barter. No, for sure. But what you said about money is energy, it's so crazy because my mom has said that like since I was a kid, and because her great-grandfather, so my great-great-grandfather has said that, and he's like, never throw their, never throw a penny away. Like, money is energy, you must respect it all, and it's beautiful, and it's this and it's that. And I just feel like that's such a gypsy thing to say.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Yeah. And don't put your purse, your, your as in New England we say pock a book, don't put your purse on the ground. My grandmother would just and she had my oh my lord, you would think that I had committed blasphemy. Um, you she just railed up one side and down the other of me. If you don't do that, that's disrespectful to your money.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah, my mom says we can't put our purse on the bed because it's putting your money to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Oh, yeah, yes, yeah, that's another one. Yeah. All the little things, and it is that's that's the energy around it. And I agree. I mean, when we think about it energetically, um, and even how I type, I create passwords that are my energy. And my girl, my Finnish girlfriend, the the Roma girlfriend, she I gave her my password once. She goes, Why would you type that? Why would you have that as your password? You're typing that every day. What energy are you putting out into the universe? And I now apply that to everything from how I talk about money. So I don't say I can't afford that. I don't, I say my money is better spent this way. That's not how I choose to spend my money. I don't say I'm broke. I'm not broke. I'm working on getting better with money. I'm working on saving for X, Y, or Z. Um, you know, and and now I have my password say what I want to manifest. You know, how do we talk to ourselves and how do we talk to ourselves about money and our abilities? And how does that affect our outcomes? I think it's it affects it more than we think. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

You're

Books Plus A Coloring Book Rant

SPEAKER_02 43:59

also a publisher. Author, can you tell us about your book and your coloring book?

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yes, so I'm a Gemini, so I have two sides to me. Um, I have my very business serious, not that I'm overly serious, serious side. So I did co-author a couple of serious books. Um, one is called Obstacles Equal Opportunity and Business, and it's where it's a collaboration of entrepreneurs, and we shared our hard lessons, our failures, our breakthroughs that help shape our success. And the other one, so that one came out in 2022, and then last year I did um Women of Purpose, and this particular volume was called Compassionate Hearts, and it focuses on the power of compassion in leading with empathy. Um, and I was approached, I was asked to be part of that because of how I approach my business, and it's unusual in the um accounting world and how I approach it. So she had asked me to be part of that. And you know, one of the biggest lessons I've learned is that you know, being that hard ass isn't what made me successful, you know, leading with understanding, with knowing that you know, I've made mistakes too, and letting not pretending to be perfect and not hiding my mistakes, letting people see that I'm human, that I learned, you know, I didn't come out with money, like I wasn't born with a silver spoon, and that I had to bootstrap it and dig myself out, has actually opened me up to a lot more success than being that straight-laced accountant. Now, on the other side of me, I grew up, my great-grandmother owned a trucking company, and I grew up around truck drivers, and the F bomb was one of my first words. So I have a little bit of a trucker mouth. I curse when I say I curse like a truck driver, I really do. Um, and I had a client who I just needed to let go. We weren't working, we weren't driving. It's funny, I've let go of male clients so often now. I just I drive more with women than men. And so he wasn't getting the hint that this was over. And I said, you know, I don't think we're a good fit. 47 emails later in a week, and then he would text and call me, and I was like, No, I and now he's becoming rude. He well, he was always rude, but he was becoming offensive. And I and finally I I said, I don't think you understand, you need to go the fuck away. And hung up. And I was really and I was so angry, I was stressed out, and so I wrote, I write, I have my creative side, I like to write, and so I wrote out a 22 stanza poem about go the fuck away. And then we illustrated, my children helped me, we illustrated it and made it into a coloring book, and so um I had to block him because he kept calling and texting. So we wrote a sequel called Shut the Fuck Up. This is amazing I love this. So, you know, there's the there's the the conservative, you know, bookkeeping side of me, and then there's the little sweary gremlin side that says what I really think, and usually a funny, I don't mean to be offensive. I don't ever mean to be offensive, but I do say things, and I say them usually with love. Um, but yeah, so we we just we had a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun. It was very cathartic for me, it was very humorous. Um, and who knew people would love it, and they do. So yeah, I have I they're both on on Amazon, and I can share the link with you or the QR code, and it's um it's on my Facebook page. I share it openly, which some people are horrified by that I have this, but it's part of me, it's who I am. Yes, I curse, yes, I can be offensive, I don't mean to hurt your feelings. I I try to say things is with as much love as I can, but sometimes people just don't get the hint. And so some people have bought it as a hint to people. Some people have bought it just because they find it funny, and it's okay, it's it all works.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

So oh god, I love that so much. We will definitely include a link. Maybe you need to bleep out my cursing, but I you know, I'm trying to behave, but it is what it is. Oh

Romani Heroes In Finland

SPEAKER_01 48:47

no, this is one of our favorite questions to ask. Who is your Romani crush? Um, which we don't necessarily mean romantically, but a romani person you want to shout out because you admire them.

SPEAKER_00 48:59

So I really being so new to the Romani world, um, I have two people that stand out to me simply because of who they are to my girlfriend. So, first the first one is my girlfriend's mom, who was Romani in Finland, who is very that's a very traditional culture there. Um, and uh in the 1950s, she left she left the culture and raised her three daughters as a single mom. Um she did something that back then that was unheard of. And she left that male-dominated society, she went out and lived on her own, and she used her singing, her dancing, her charm. Good lord, is this woman gorgeous and charming? Um, we recently lost her. We I was in Finland actually, so that my girlfriend could say goodbye to her mom because we knew the time was near. And she was 96 at the time. And I mean, I've she's been visiting and I've been seeing stories and photos and hearing about her life and her her uh amazing. Just she she broke the mold. She she broke a mold and ran a restaurant and did all these amazing things and created a life simply from her charm and her abilities to refuse to be boxed in. And I so resonated with her. Um, but then there's my girlfriend's sister, Pivy, who's actually she is head of the Romani Federation in Finland, and I didn't know she was such a big wig in the Romani world, but she um is saving the Romani culture, which is becoming extinct in Finland, and actually in many parts of the world, she is saving it, the culture, the heritage, the stories, the traditions, the language, which has never been who knew that it's never been written. And she has fought the fight to get it written down simply to save it. And um, that's where I got to visit that that cultural center in Helsinki and visit with these women and the food, the the songs, it's all passed down orally. And um what uh a battle she's fighting to get the persecution stopped in Finland because it is it is hard if you're a Romani and you are dressing traditionally to get a job, they are very prejudiced against. Um, they are not treated well. And she's really fighting for their equal uh treatment and to get the the respect that they deserve. And so um these women uh and what they're doing, what what my girlfriend Anna's mom did was so courageous. And then there's you know Pivie fighting another courageous bat battle that I'm in such awe of. And it just goes to show you that that uh you can put your you can do what you put your mind to. You don't have to live in the limits that you were told you have to live live in. You can do whatever you set your mind to and break those barriers.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Wow, they sound incredible. Oh my gosh. We'll definitely share information, their their names and um and the cultural center and the notes too for listeners.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Yes, it's such an amazing center. What they they have clothing going back, the traditional I it was and how heavy those skirts are, and how these women, and even when I went in and we were all eating, and then a man came in, and the single women had to get up and leave, and I didn't understand that they're not allowed to be in the same room as a as they're single, they can't be in the same room with the men, and just they saw I have a recording of a song they were singing, and the translation just made me cry because it was it was about you know their persecution. I had no idea that it was a Romani Holocaust. They're teaching so much of the history and bringing it to life to be respected, and it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

That is really beautiful, but so important.

Free Resources Debt And Forgiveness

SPEAKER_02 53:41

What do you have coming up on the horizon, and how can our listeners best find you and support your work?

SPEAKER_00 53:50

So I am always learning more, right? I'm always trying to be better at my trade so that I can provide better, I can teach better, I can share better. So um I just posted um a free money uh worksheet. It's it's uh like a money makeover, and it's the money reset, the three habits every woman needs to go from panic to peace. I just created that. Um, and that is is even if you don't have a business, this is just regular everyday people's money. And then I did that is a free resource. Then I did create, and every month I try and put up a new free resource, just so you know. Um, because there's always questions that people have, and I'm like, oh, people need this, so I put that up. And so there's only six up to download, but they're always changing. And then I did a um an actual paid-for resource, and it's the DIY bookkeeping survival kit. And this is so you don't have to hire a bookkeeper, you don't have to get QuickBooks, you can do this with worksheets that you can download and print out. If you want to do an Excel spreadsheet, I have a sample that you can clone to get you started so you don't have to create it from scratch, and that's in the the the um survival kit. Um, there's things with money planning, understanding what income is versus isn't, what expenses are that you can deduct and aren't, how to actually handle your cash flow, how to handle debt. How do we get out of debt? What's good debt and bad debt? Because there is good debt, believe it or not, there is good debt. Um, but there's also bad debt that strips us and and really fleeces us. And so understanding, and that's all part of that that bookkeeper's survival kit. I sell them individually, and I try to have a really low cost, a really low ticket item because people, there's not a lot the money's tight right now, so you can buy them individually, but all together as one big toolkit, I give a discount on everything. Um, so I just put that up in that. It's been a passion project I've wanted to do for like three years, and I finally buckled down and did it and put it up. And I I appreciate feedback from anybody. If you're like, can you add this or this doesn't make sense? I'll answer your questions. And you can find me on Instagram at EM Bookkeeping, um, Facebook, same thing, and also just my name on Facebook. Um, you know, it doesn't have to be the business page, you can go to my personal page. And if you like the if you like my my coloring books in a little dark sarcastic humor, I also have getting comfy with the F word on Instagram and Facebook, where it is my off-color sense of humor and just you know, having fun making fun of the world. Because if you you gotta laugh sometimes, you can't take life too seriously.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Oh, yeah. No, dark humor is a sign of intelligence and resilience. I was just reading, according to Well, then I'm wicked smart as my my boss to note, right? Wicked smart. Also, you know, you just reminded me. Um, speaking of all these amazing financial tips, I think everyone should go download all those things if this is helpful to you or if this feels like it's speaking to you. I just wanted to take a moment to shout out something that I had no idea was a thing. One of my friends told me about this. If you live in America and you have student debt and you are also uh disabled in a way that's considered permanent, either because of chronic illness or injury or something else, you can have your debt erased or forgiven. You don't have to be on disability. I think currently the law is that you have to have been disabled for the last five years, it has to be impacting your ability to earn income. You have to have a doctor write a note if you're not on disability specifically. And if that all of that, you know, if you're considered disabled forevermore, you will have your student loans erased. So if you didn't know that, go do that now. It's actually really easy to apply.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

There's another way too, and that is through service. So um, my niece, she graduated with a ton of med of debt from college, getting her nursing degree, and she then worked at a prison for two years, and in exchange for having that student loan debt forgiven. Yeah, there are ways. I mean, it's not like she she didn't work for free, she still got a paycheck, but she took a job that really not a lot of people want. And there are ways of getting a job in an area that is not glamorous or or desired that well, then the government will forgive your debt.

SPEAKER_01 58:57

Yeah. And the thing is, we don't always know about this. So sometimes it's even just knowing where to start looking, like, how do I get my loans forgiven, or what do I do if this or that happens? Like just asking humans or the internet, and then humans can be so helpful. Yes. Um sometimes the internet lies. It does.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

So you want to verify what you what you find out because the artificial intelligence, I think we should call it unintelligence because it lies. It leads us in more than one way.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Thank you so much for talking with us. This was

Where To Find Krista And Support

SPEAKER_01 59:31

such a delight. I always love spending time with you, and I really feel like I'm sure what you shared resonated with a lot of folks, and um, it's an important message.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Well, thank you for having me. And as you know, it is my passion. If we can help one woman, you know, get in a better place, then my my heart is happy because it's just not information that that we are taught in high school, and it should be. Yeah, it should be common knowledge for us, and it's uncommon knowledge, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Yeah, totally. We appreciate you so much. Yes so much. Thanks everyone for listening. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook at Romanasan Podcast, and on Twitter at Romanasan Pod. To support us, join our Patreon for extra content or just donate to our coffee fundraiser, ko-fi.com backslash romanasan. And please rate, review, and subscribe. It helps people find our show. It helps us so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

You can follow Jez on Instagram at jezmina.vantila and Paulina at RomaniHolistic. You can get our book, Secrets of Romani Fortune Telling, online or wherever books are sold. Visit romanistempodcast.com for events, educational resources, and more. Email us at romanistanpodcast at gmail.com for inquiries.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Romanistan is hosted by Jasmina Vantila and Paulina Stevens, conceived of by Paulina Stevens, edited by Victor Pachas, with music by Victor Pachas, and artwork by Elijah Bardo.