Ep. 012: Protecting Gun Rights is a Matter of Life and Death

Andrew Bernstein and Bosch Fawstin explain that, how, and why protecting the right of honest persons to own guns saves innocent lives--many of them. We will explain why Americans must neither yield their rights nor surrender their guns.

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all right we are live out there in freedom of speechland how is everybody doing tonight at our at our new new day in new time andrew bernstein bosch fosten how you doing today bosch excellent andrew hope everyone's well yeah thank you i'm glad glad to hear it uh so truth in politics now uh wednesday evening eight o'clock eastern time here we are discussing what can be a life and death issue right the the right to the right of honest people to own guns so this is a controversial issue uh and now it has been for a long time probably will be for a long time so i know you have i know you have a few things a bunch of things you're going to have to say on this bosh well definitely i mean i don't bounce back and back and forth with you because you you wrote that great article on it um i think 2018 about it yeah that i've uh i've listened to john watts i've read some of his books i um i mean he's you know he's like is there anyone else that's that's that's like john lott out there or is just or there's only one john lott out there right i mean i mean truly he's he's written a book after book after book and and i don't think there's anyone else out there on this level in terms of understanding the issue and defending it right and then you just let everybody know out there in the you know freedom of speech land that uh john lots of economist wrote the definitive book was it was in the uh more guns less crying yes there's the the definitive book on on the effects of gun control and he's uh he is the go-to guy he's the expert he's a big advocate you know of of gun rights i know richard poe has written on gun rights also he's he's um you know a good author to read on this issue but john lott is the he's the guy yeah and that's why he's not invited on these uh debates he's right because he's him up yeah he knows he he's he's a trained economist and he he knows the he knows the data no well we will give some of that data tonight but let's let's start out i mean the thesis i think should be um the more we protect the you know i mean we should start off at the point iran taught us brilliantly that the moral is the practical right that if you do the right thing morally it has but beneficent practical result results and consequently the immoral is the impractical you know if you if you're unjust or you uh you're immoral or you violate people's rights it's going to be harmful results and so you know i think the moral in this case is uh to protect the rights of honest person don't own guns there's there's no if you're an honest person you could have a bazooka you know in your house you're not going to use it you're not going to use it to perpetrate crime uh and there's all kinds of reasons why people honest people might want a gun self-defense obviously but also some people are collectors some people are hunters there's all kinds of reasons so the the thesis then is if we pretend you know is it if we protect the rights of honest persons tone guns then the the practical results will be beneficial and i think the thesis here is uh the more we protect the rights of honest per honest and especially honest and trained persons to own guns uh the more that innocent lives are protected and conversely the the more gun control laws the more the more we the more we restrict gun ownership the the more that there's going to be violent crime and homicide there's no doubt about it no doubt yeah that's always the case right the data shows that and we we could and we could explain why um but yeah that's that's right the it is uh to the ext when we ban guns this is counterintuitive to a lot of people yeah so we want to you know we want to reach them you know with reason well but it's true it is it is kind of constitutive yeah but yeah when when we when we ban guns to the extent that we ban guns the homicide rate goes up and the rate of violent crime more broadly goes up uh and yeah that is i mean you know there are people who are they're honest people and they see all these crimes committed with guns and they may be afraid of guns themselves right right that's an issue that is definitely an issue they're afraid of guns and they've been taught to be afraid of guns uh by the culture by the media by movies by a lot of things and just moving also andrew i just want to jump jump right in in terms of the culture we are you know yeah we're a pro-gun culture but we also that's changed a lot of ways you know and could it be attributable to the left could it be the left's desire to control us therefore control our lives our freedoms our second amendment everything is it part and parcel of the left meaning this this this culture that has really embraced guns for you know for hundreds of years right uh that's changed in a lot of ways it's now it's you know people who want to defend themselves and wood guns and have guns are called gun gun nuts very very commonly today gun nuts it's just it's a smear and do you think that has to do with the left and their desire to control us and that that our culture has turned in in some ways but but i will acknowledge this also we are not in a lot of ways i mean our culture has not been you know people acute like say american first american that's not where we are really it's americans versus anti-americans people who don't want to uphold our founding principles people who don't want to uphold what what makes america america and that's the ones who i think want to deny us and take away this fundamental right of ours to defend ourselves ultimately you know we have we all have the right to self-defense we do and our founders enshrined that rights in the ultimate way which is with guns you want me in equal footing with with your would-be enemies you wanna be equal footing even if it comes down to with the government because i i think that's the ultimate thing uh what government in history has uh enshrined that right the way the founders did you know the second amendment just in case they understood that if government goes overboard if it's overreaches at a point of being dangerous to us they want they wanted us to have that the power at least to get back to some extent right yeah right now just want to i'll answer your question but i also want to say you know there i i can understand why some people are afraid of guns because guns in the hands of bad guys are you know are dangerous or over the hands of people who don't understand them who don't whoever have been trained you know that's also dangerous right right but yeah philosophically you're right i mean the essence of of the left uh goes all the way back to plato and you know you know the philosopher king and it's the uh you know and it's it became modernized by karl marx in the 19th century who you know qualities theory scientific socialism but the the idea is that there should be a trained intellectual elite the philosopher king in plato's terms or the the economy professional economists who plan the economy and you know and they plan the professional social scientists who plan out society that that that this the state then takes care of us this you know the state uh you know scientifically plans out society what jobs we have what education we we have and related to guns of course the idea then is the state takes care of us the state of the state will protect us you and i you and i don't need guns and we should be we should be stripped of guns and only the state should own guns now that's you know that's a platonic marxist idea it's the essence of of socialism that the state takes care of us including you know police protection now it's a very scary idea yes because now sorry now to defund the police and take our guns yeah so it's like wait a minute where are we going now we're going to full this is i mean this is again we talked about this in earlier shows i mean this is if they could get away with it they would go as far as the other ones would go in the past you know in terms of the left this is what they that's the trajectory this is towards complete control it's not towards half-assed control it's not towards the source completely controlled the only thing that has kept them at bay to some extent is our final principles our founding documents the freedom that we saw and also in their own mind they've been made better just by living here even though they've adopted these evil ideas even they're still not as bad as the old leftists because they're somewhat still civilized americans to some extent you know but the more they become the more left they go the more dangerous they are to our freedoms and so when they want the cops and and and again that rasheed rasheed to leap she is for full-blown destruction of the police force now that's it just wipe it all out what's her answer to that nothing and she's a member of congress there are others who agree with her so they want the the basically they want the police to be taken out and our right to supplements be taken out so they want to be completely disarmed i have a counter proposal i think we should completely defund and dismantle the democratic party i think that i think they are they are a threat to the country yeah they are so anti-american but let's let's go to the the factual data um yeah yo john lott in again i recommend his book to everybody who's interested in this issue more guns less crime uh this is a definitive study of gun control and john lott is the expert on this and this book you know he starts out with the data as a good economist should and there's the states that you know the whole range of states you know across the country that legalize concealed carry i mean in the in the oval in the overwhelming majority of those cases the homicide rate went down the and the rate of violent crime went down the overwhelming number of uh of cases where you know where states legalized concealed carry it makes it better you guys think twice yeah yeah for sure and he could he concluded a lot joanna concluded that the the most effective way that we know of to to keep the crime rate down is to you know is to protect the the right of honest persons to to carry it to carry a concealed weapon that that is the most effective way to bring down the rate of violent crime and and and the homicide rate so that you know there's there's there's the data from a number of states i mean i remember off the top of my head mean was one of those states oregon you know was one of those states west virginia was was one of those states there was a whole range of them where where that happened and i think we i think we need to explain why um you know you know lots of economists but i think we could give the the uh do a better job explaining the reasons and i tried to do that in my essay um well i really remember the title of it so something that the the defense of innocent lives requires gunners honest persons yeah yeah which is which is on my website andrewbernstein.net and it's uh capitalismmagazine.com and i know you know and i started with with a a bunch of of examples here you know as to why so you know what so what happened for instance you know you know like i've had students you know intelligent kids basha said to me you know we need to you know we need to ban guns and and i and i said i remember saying to her how do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and she said ban them and i and i said to her the laws banning guns will work as effectively as the laws banning drugs you know for for for exam examine is pretty common i gotta say unfortunately yeah it is very common and you know and the prima facie if you don't really think about it at a superficial glance you think well if we ban guns you know there'll be no guns yeah if we ban guns then criminals have a tougher job getting guns maybe they won't be able to get guns and the crime rate goes down you know at the superficial level that you know that makes a certain amount of sense but let's dig into this so you know the the war on drugs so you know yes it's been going on for decades and by the way bash as an aside we need to have a future show on on the war on drugs definitely and absolutely yeah legalizing drugs is is certainly one step we could take that i think will bring the homicide rate way down yes it will in this in this almost definite law yeah that but that's it but that's a topic for another another night but the war on drugs i mean my god federal and state governments have put billions and billions and billions of dollars into this they put god knows how many people in prison for drug ownership you know or in in intent to sell i busted up you know a whole bunch of drug cartels but it's like as soon as you bust up one drug cartel you know it's like the hydra you know like that's ten more ten more spring up in this place so there's one example you know that banning x does not does not prevent people from procuring eggs no uh what about the war on alcohol you know during prohibition 1920s it went underground yeah criminals got their hands on it and made the most of it right not right a number of people have pointed out that what the what prohibition did in the 1920s one thing it quote accomplished is it it made organized crime absolutely right people like al capone you know and made them exactly right it made these made men you know yeah these guys were small time you know relatively small time thugs prior to prohibition but prohibition can be made gave them the opportunity to make millions and millions you know and in 1920 which was enormously more purchasing power than today and they thug gave alco thugs like al capone you know the the wealth to buy you off local police exactly right politicians politicians even judges you know i mean uh so so there's another example i think your third example what about the so-called oldest profession that's right politics right yeah it's been banned in politics that's the oldest profession joking you're right you're right you know paid sexual services prostitution this has been banned for centuries you know and i don't know how many countries across different continents as has it curtailed the so-called oldest profession at all i mean i i don't know personally i know i i maybe it's gone down to some extent i mean yeah i know i don't know i i you know i i like a little relationship with my sex you know i'm funny though so i can't you're old-fashioned yeah it's joey that's true i'm not i'm not with the times and we're not supposed to use the term prostitute anymore right that's right next workers right be that as it may you know rose by any other name uh no it has not been able to you know the banning x does not prevent the pro procurement of x as a third example and let me give a hypothetical one fourth example that i raised in my essay what's going to happen let's say if the government declares war on tobacco yes you know you know cigarette smoking is harmful to your health so we got we you know which which it is so the government's got to ban it so if they if they ban tobacco you really think does anybody think that people won't be able to get cigarettes no i mean that's the thing and i mean bloomberg tried you know i mean blue blueberry's been trying to ban everything i mean he banned big gulp yes i mean he's trying to i mean his whole thing is banned everything i have a cartoon of him bandman you know it was fun it was a fun job yeah as i remember they banned in new york city you know those big 32 hours your cups of soda but you could buy 269 you know when you start violating people's rights it becomes absurd sometimes so so anyway there's there's a principle here and you know that we could see from the war on alcohol the war on drugs the war on prostitution this you know three examples right there uh that it's it is impossible uh to prevent the procurement of x by by criminalizing the purchase or the ownership of acts yeah and let me repeat that because i think it's an important point it is impossible to prevent the procurement effects by criminalizing the purchase or the ownership of absolutely you know this idea that the government bans x therefore people won't be able to get x is false i mean it's just false they still exist there's still a need for them a lot for them a desire for them and it will continue just in in uh underground yeah that's all yeah what you do is you empower the black market absolutely empower criminals yeah right exactly make them wealthy and more powerful uh you know i'll tell you how powerful this is i was in china you know with with my ex-wife to adopt you know our daughter you know this was 2003 and i was reading the the english speaking language the english-speaking english language newspaper in china and they were executing a bunch of drug dealers and it really at this point really struck me dealing drugs in communist china is a capital offense and they still have drug dealers there's still people dealing drugs exactly right you know it's a capital defense exactly right it will always be there it will always be there the desire and the and the criminals who want to you know make the most of it exactly and let me ask you guys because i know you're you're an expert on islam and some of the islamic countries like saudi arabia for example isn't prostitution at times a capital offense i believe so i don't know 100 about that but it must be it must be because i mean well women are you know you know being a woman is capital effects thank you right so but but one thing about that uh i've learned through some you know outside of my studies of islam that sometimes the saudi prince is one of they go to new york they hire floors of these grand hotels and they indulge in things like that that they can't in saudi arabia and then they go back and they give money to these your house to try to cleanse their you know what they did to try to make them you know maybe to try to ethyl and just yeah what an inverted morality yeah i mean so so they they've sinned by drinking alcohol and having sex with people and they damn us for making it available for making it impossible for them to to do that of course they partake in it but they they damn us for that they want right make us pay for that right for allowing you know it for allowing them to actually you know go through with them anyway in reality it's the jihadist that's the the terrible immorality now you're perpetrating murder you know as opposed to drinking alcohol or having having paid sex with adult women you know voluntary consensual sex sex with women who are adults now to cleanse our souls but that's but that's heroic in islam you know so right right right that's an old story right so we need to well how why why is that uh we ban we ban all these different things we like the war on drugs is perfect right and and prohibition was also perfect exactly what was how much money you know went into you know eliot ness and the untouchables and taking down al capone god knows how much money went into the war on alcohol now you know the war on drugs and how many you know uh lauren foster resources go go into this and still you know when yeah i i asked my students you know i won't mention the name of the school we're talking about the war on drugs i said you know without mentioning names i said how hard is it you know to to get drugs you know and the student says i think they can find you right on campus exactly you know exactly right it's very accessible so i was teaching i was teaching an ethics class bosh you know and everybody a couple of years ago old mentioned school was in poughkeepsie new york so it's a night class in the summer and we discussed this issue as you know ethics class we discussed some topical issues including the war on drugs so after class i went to the local diner and it walks two uniform poughkeepsie police officers so i went up to i didn't even realize what they must have thought i was i went up to them and i said officers how hard is it to find the drugs here yeah they must have thought i was a drug addict or something and they just laughed the two cops left they said go down on main street you find anything wow i said i said different types of coke crack crack heroics anything you want i said oh my god then i thought afterwards i i forgot these guys probably thought i was looking for drugs well they said let's just let's just follow him yes let's go yeah put that on main you know so this is true like anywhere in the country practically and so we need to figure out well how come you you know we ban x legally put gazillions of dollars and god knows how much law enforcement time into enforcing you know these these draconian laws it's so easy to to get it and i think you know the principle here is comes out of the field the basic principle of economics and that is if we need to know you know x is in demand right drugs are in demand and we need to know what that means because i think a lot of people who don't know economics think uh when you say drugs are in demand that means a lot of people want them right which is part of it but it's more when by what economists mean when they say x is in demand it means one a lot of people want it and two they can afford to buy it yes you know the as a technical economic term means desired backed by purchasing power and so when we say drugs are in demand of the united states what we mean is there's gazillions of people who one want different drugs and two can afford to buy them and so then then we then we they were starting to see land here we're starting to get inside because we could point out then accurately if x is in demand then money can be made supplying it right and if x is legal it will be supplied by legitimate businessman if x is illegal it will be supplied by gangsters now either way x is supplied and and that's an important point and we need to you know we need to understand that and so you turn to guns you know in the in the united states uh guns in demand are there a lot of people who one want guns and two could afford to buy them yes yeah i mean does anybody know the the population in the united states is something like you know 320 or 330 million how many guns are owned by by americans is anybody we're told a few hundred million but i don't know i don't know i just don't know nobody know i don't exactly and as you wrote in your piece also people like to keep it undercover as well they don't talk about it because then they're afraid that the government might try to come in and take their chances right and first of all how many criminals own guns and they're not about to you know acknowledge it and then you're right with honest people they're not always going to acknowledge it because the gun they have like handgun in in in any number of cities where handguns are banned you and i grew up in in new york city we know handguns were banned by the sullivan law i think it went back to the 1930s i think you know it's like 90 years now and so a lot of honest people own guns which they have you know completely for self-defense purposes or completely for honest and legitimate purposes but but it may be against the law uh and or they're afraid to have a shotgun or something they may be afraid that guns are going to be banned and you know the state is going to you know take their gun away from them so we don't know no we don't we don't know for sure we know that there's a lot i mean i i would say there's there's a lot let's just say a million dollars i don't know yeah it's a lot more than that i think there was a uh a few years ago there was a survey by the the pew research center that concluded something like one out of three i think americans uh uh live in a family uh where there's where guns guns are owned yeah there's there's hundreds and millions hundreds yes exactly yeah but we don't know for sure but i'm not let's find out yeah again but that's fine good right right and so there's the there's there's no question i think that we you know we could say in the united states guns are in demand that many people want them and many people can afford to buy them many of these gun stores stay in business you know they if if they're not shut down by the state the store stay in business because people can buy guns one observation also in terms of how many guns there are in this country and relative to how many you know mass shootings and whatnot it just tells you that the honest person they wouldn't do that that's that's not i mean we have the guns to cause the kind of mass murders that would be you know impossible to believe they just don't happen because as we know multiple who have guns there they have for self-defense purposes they want to protect themselves and their family and their honest people and that's the one thing the when you even in your peace the honest individual the honest person the honest gun owner that's one thing also that these people who want to ban them they're not honest and they also resent the idea of these honest people like well nobody's honest because they project their own dishonesty on television and they're like well i wouldn't i wouldn't own a gun i mean you know i wouldn't trust myself with a gun sometimes sometimes have you ever heard that one i wouldn't trust myself with a gun that's their problem that's your problem that's not ours you know don't make it out but they're trying to make their problem their dishonesty their fear of themselves onto us so i just say the amount of guns and the amount of uh you know the shoes we have it's just it's extraordinary the difference no i i that's true and that goes to an interesting point um and that is you know i belong to the nra to the you know to the national rifle association and uh and they're one organization that covers this and i think there might be others but you know we we see the the spectacular you know these psychopaths walk it into a restaurant or a store or you know whatever it is with an automatic weapon and cutting loose and murdering a bunch of innocent people and that's big news as it should be and we see these spectacular you know these evil mass murders and we know about that so you say well maybe if we ban guns we could we could end that but the the the little incidents every day where some gun owner prevents a crime absolutely of course because of gun ownership we don't see that maybe some local story may be somewhere at times but right national news absolutely not right and the nra covers that and you're right so some guy you know in paducah kentucky you know chased off some some home invaders or busted into his house to do god knows what you know because he had you're filling the blanket a handgun a shotgun an ar-15 you know whatever it is you know some elderly you know grandmother you know again in in lafayette you know in cave city arkansas you know again she she chased off some some bad guys who would have attended you know who were gonna bust into a house and again to god knows what if this is not only literally an everyday occurrence this there's dozens i don't know there's an endless number of these examples every day every single day every single day there are there are honest people who are able to defend themselves or their family or innocent others because they they own a gun this is an everyday offense it's not a big city it may make it into the local newspaper like you said it's not me you know yeah it may but it's not national news no and so and deliberately so i mean you know deliberately so they don't want that getting out there because that's that doesn't help their their agenda at all the lion left like wait no the lion leftist media is not going to not get report on that you know the line looks like it's a little bit simple and true yeah it's so true sadly sadly true but yeah but it's an everyday event got countless numbers uh uh every day and you know you could you can look at the nra you know records here and they they they give a lot of these a lot of these examples a lot of them come out of you know local newspapers and so you know this this is part of what we were talking about our thesis is that guns in the hands of honest people especially if they're trained and know how to use guns save innocent innocent lives and they do it every day young countless you know countless innocent people say this is wide by the way i should point out over 90 of the police departments and sheriff's offices around the country favor guns in the hands of honest trained citizens because you know they they you know the good cops no and there are a lot of good cops no matter what no matter what we're here that's an absolute fact i mean i just wrote something today just quick i said uh you know cops uh are sometimes wrong you know criminals are always wrong always they're the bad guys and the cops are relatively the good guys they are i mean they are mostly decent men women going out there trying to do their job to protect the uh the you know the cities that they live in and some yes there's some bad guys yes but it's not that it's not that common it's just not right just like there are there are doctors who are bad guys and who you know malpractice and kill their patients but but the overwhelming majority of doctors in the us i think are trustworthy it's the same thing with police officers and especially in the high crime areas i mean these these men and women go out there and risk their lives every day to protect the other sin that's and why would these why would these bad guys do that i mean you've got to have some kind of moral core inside you to do that you have to i mean you have to to take on these bad guys yeah and save lives yeah and so it's not an accident i think that the overwhelming majority of police departments and sheriff's offices favor guns in the hands of honors trained people because they know we were talking before the show bosh and you pointed out you know very often your cops are the good cops they're reactive to a crime yeah you know they they they don't prevent it they investigate it and try again you know and try and uh hunt down the the perp it's like you know if somebody breaks into your house in the middle of the night god forbid uh you call 9-1-1 and let's say we haven't defunded the police and let's say the police let's say the police get there quickly let's let's say within three minutes they're they're there that's a good reaction time on the part of the police but a violent crime couldn't be committed in three seconds you know yeah and then the honest cops do say you know arm yourself and they do applaud these individuals who do take them you know kirk of the law into their hands if they if they see a crime happening if they if they're carrying they they sometimes shoot the bad guy and save the day and the cops don't don't don't go out there disparage them they don't they say you know what that's a hero that's all right right right so to get back to the main thread you know of uh of uh you know this is the comment from our good friend stephanie bond she asked how many horrific gun crimes occurred in areas where guns were banned good point stephanie i'm thinking of schools for the uh no gun zones oh i mean that's just begging about it guys it's a magnet yeah exactly for mass murders exactly exactly that makes schools a free fire zone for for would-be mass murders because they know there's nobody there to fire back there's you got a whole population there that's been legally disarmed or something also just in terms of life you know we are concerned with life anyone who would do that i have to question their entire mindset their entire view of life i mean why would you endanger children you're endangering them yeah there's something evil about that there i mean it doesn't matter like well you know they might they might be decent with their own no you're you're putting them in danger no why would you do that anyway no you're right boston stephanie's question is stephanie bond's question he was well taken i saw i think was on facebook you know one of those redneck states that i that i respect on these issues i think was it in oklahoma i think it was where there was a local school might have been a high school i remember but they had signs all over campus you know that that said our faculty and administrators are allowed to be armed and to use whatever force is necessary to protect our students and if a school does that and advertises it then i think stephanie's right they're not you know you know these mass murders are not gonna occur they're gonna go there no no they won't and that's what you got to do you got to you got to telegraph that to the bad guys and you know to protect the kids that's the most important thing is it not i mean yes you want to educate them but you want to protect them and why would you endanger them again i question i question the morality i question everything about them anyone anyone who advocates for that yeah i know i know i agree 100 so anyway continuing with our thread so that means you know if guns are in demand in the united states and they have been banned to whatever extent we'll talk about uh you know assault weapons or handguns or whatever it is that means you know money can be made by supplying these guns that means gangsters are gonna you know gun runners are gonna uh sell guns the way drug dealers sell you know smuggling guns and sell them illegally illegally the way drug dealers smuggling drugs and sell them illegally and how likely are honest people to go to those gangsters and try to get guns how how likely is that exactly and the way bootleggers in 1920 smuggled in booze and uh you know sold it illegal by the way i wanted to say something uh you know i had good friends really good friends family in detroit uh detroit area robert and amy nacer and you know a really good objectivist and i've you know gone i've stayed with them a number of times and you lectured for them a number of times so we took this tour you know one time where you know detroit's right on right across the the river from canada and during prohibition in 1920s the purple gang in detroit was notorious and i i bring it up here because the the the the people who headed the the purple gang of murderers and just violent thugs and bootleggers their name was bernstein a bernstein you know so hopefully they're not they're not relatives of money he's really these were really bad guys the purple gang but you know they smuggled in booze from canada into the united states and you know and killed anybody who who tried to stop him made a lot of money doing this and i'm guessing probably bought off local politicians and police chiefs that's just a guess but anyway you're right so so who's gonna who's gonna buy guns from these criminal gangs criminals criminals yeah your honest people are going to be deterred by by the laws banning guns we don't want to break the law we don't want to go to prison uh maybe honest people will still you know buy guns from criminal gangs who sell them because they may fear home invasion yeah home invasion's horrible right i mean i don't even want to you know discuss the kind of things that happen when people break into the house and they kill the whole family you know and everything so there's some obscene things i mean yeah yeah it's just unbelievable unspeakable right and so you know so it's possible honest people might still buy guns because they fear home invasion more than they fear going to prison for owning a gun right but nevertheless fewer honest people are going to buy guns from from gun runners you're from these criminal gangs and at the heart the hot a higher percentage of people who buy guns are going to be criminals right and so several uh you know several points i think we we could we could make here the upshot of this is a larger percentage of gun owners will now be bad guys than than honest guys because you know you can't prevent the criminals from getting guns but you very well might deter or prevent honest people from from getting the guns and a second a second point uh a second point here bosch is there'll be you know you see these these drug dealers the violence that swirls around the drug trafficking oh yeah yeah warm weather is coming you know i guess see the news we can predict it memorial day weekend when memorial day weekend is over we'll see national news 77 people shot in chicago this weekend 32 dead right you know that that kind of that kind of stuff and we're going to discuss the war on drugs because you know i i was another economist what was his name jeffrey miron uh argued that if we you know if if we do away with with with the prosecution here if we if we do away with the attempt to you know to prevent you know end the war on drugs put it simply or decriminalize drugs the homicide rate in the united states he predicted would drop by by anything from 25 to 75 wow that's staggering and nobody knows what it would be but we know that that's a good number because the number will be high exactly because so much of the homicide the violence swirls around the the drug trafficking and so excuse me the gun trafficking we're guessing will probably be less than the drug trafficking but still is going to be gangs you know who sell guns you know to to make money that way what's the relationship going to be between the rival gun right exactly right it's going to be the same as the relationship between the rival drug gangs you know we're going to see the homicide hotels yeah right right this in fact the same cartels who now make money smuggling in drugs may be the same people who make money by smuggling in guns and may the most vicious gang win i mean that's what that's what they do they're you know they're more they're more they would they're more willing to do these crazy evil things than than than the other gang to take over um sorry in terms of these laws and the democrats you know they're fundamentally geared towards trying to rid this the second amendment and we know this they don't have to say it openly like we saw the cnn guy the old damage we saw project veritas which uh exposed the cnn guy and saying everything that we know everything that we know about what they're up to he said it out in the open of course he was being recorded he didn't know that but still he was he was saying what they're actually doing it's propaganda here's the word propaganda can they make an honest argument uh people who want to ban guns can they people who want to do away with saying can they they can't no they can't they cannot that's why they have to lie in their in their steps that's why you know when john lot exposes these people there with uh michael bloomberg they they pay these firms to make these fake stats and that's what they are they're lies they leave out certain things so what i'm saying is they can't make an honest argument against it that right there tells you they're up to no good no i know absolutely right and i think you know the evidence we've cited from john lott and the reasoning we've done you know shows us that if we ban guns to the extent that we ban guns a higher percentage of gun owners will be criminals you know higher than honest people and that is not a recipe for peace that is not a recipe to bring down the homicide rate or the rate of violent crime and these politicians can't not know that they have to know that yeah they do i mean i'm not i'm not proud of this bosh but i went but it's true nevertheless you know i went to high school with chuck schumer and well well i gotta go i gotta go that guy is a yeah you don't have to convince me you don't have to convince me i've known that since i was a kid in fact i was dressed i was in wichita kansas a few years ago were given a series of lectures and one of the groups i was lectured to was called himself the pachyderm club because it was the local republicans and uh some of these guys were fundamentalists but still a lot there were a lot of good honors you know absolutely who loved america who loved america had i mentioned that and you should heard the groan that went off oh my god oh chuck schumer they call him up chuck yeah he was two years ahead of me so i didn't know him very well but i know this i give him i give the the bastard this much credit one he's very intelligent yeah two he was a hard worker you know he did very well he got 1600 on his sats back in the day when that meant something and he worked hard as a student and he earned his way into harvard so you know he's a smart guy yeah he he doesn't know chuck schumer didn't he take econ 101 in harvard and no you know that the law of supply and demand means that with guns in demand yeah that's thing he's too smart not no and also he was uh critical of care believe it or not which is pretty shocking for a democrat but he was critical he he's been on record as being critical against against care which is good yeah yeah well done that's you know that that is that is good yeah any anyhow so you know what you know what we what we see here is you know put it simply you know what an nra is just right about this but you know with their their slogan that when we outlaw guns only only outlaws will have guns all right all right that's true that is that is true we've just we've just seen uh the the the reason why and by the way by everybody before we move on i wanna i wanna go back to the point we were saying before um you know about we see the spectacular i don't know spectacular is the wrong word the horrific crimes perpetrated by people with automatic weapons who shoot up a school or you know a restaurant or something killed you know 10 people you know or whatever you know what that that white supremacist a few years ago who who shot up that black church in charleston south carolina killed like eight eight or ten innocent people we see these horrific crimes their national news as they should be but we don't see you know as we discussed the everyday incidents where some gun owned some honest gun owner prevented a crime by chasing bat by chasing bad guys off or even shooting bad guys um and and that goes back to the great french economist frederick bastiat you know who wrote about the scene and the unseen and i think that's a that's a that's a good point here that when we when we look at the effects of gun ownership we need to cover the waterfront we need to cover all of the the examples of the bad guys killing a lot of people with guns and the good guys using guns to protect their lives and the lives of their family and lives of other innocent people we need to run the whole gamut you know of this and see the the full effect of gun ownership and see how many more lives are saved by by guns in the hands of honest people than than lives are taken by guns in the hands of bad guys absolutely right the scene in the unseen boss i recommend anybody to read bastiat on on on this issue uh so so anyway there's another reason why your related reason why violent crime rates go up homicide rates go up when guns are banned uh and that is so let's say let's let's do a thor experiment let's say by divine intervention which is what it would take we're able to keep guns out of the hands of civilians so only government agents have guns no civilians have guns bad guys don't have guns good guys don't have guns only only the cops have guns what happens they do that evidently the anti-gun crowd thinks the crime rate's going to go down yeah it won't it doesn't the crime rate goes up it necessarily goes up because remember well let me you you know this very well you grew up in the bronx gosh i grew up in brooklyn we know this uh the favor the favorite targets of criminals so is it you know what uh healthy adult males is this is that who criminals tend to know to pick on older women usually women in general smaller women in particular yeah women and the elderly they're the favorite targets of christmas absolutely because they're such heroes right that's right they they pick on women and the elderly are the other their favorite assault targets i mean that's what they do they're they're raps they're criminals they have immorality no nothing they go for the cheapest thing that they could that they can do the quickest take that that they can and in terms of even if they ban guns then what happens weapons knives bats this that every kind of thing pots even you know yeah any anything in the bronx in the past yeah it was screwdrivers but but yeah so if by divine intervention we could ban um uh gun ownership on the part of civilians the the key point here is the criminals know that their prospective targets their prospective victims have been legally disarmed and i'm going to go as far as say this the the demographic in this country who will most benefit from banning guns or criminals absolutely criminals are the ones who will benefit from banning guns because that's why that's why you got to question those who want the ban i i see them as criminal you know not you're right you're right because what we've then told criminals is you know you you know go ahead and and hit your targets because yeah because your targets have been legally disarmed that's that you know that's what what happens then is that the criminal justice system in effect has removed uh one of the great deterrents of of criminal aggression and it's it's it's it's removed you know it's removed the danger it's removed the dangers of of perpetrating crimes and it's interesting and not surprising that when the criminologists interview i've seen this a number of times you know reading about it criminologists interview like in the state penitentiary uh these these uh convicted felons what's what's your worst fears it was never being apprehended by the police their worst fear was always being shot by an armed victim right yeah and that should be just advertised on the rooftops i mean by any kind of you know non non-left-leaning people to to make that point clear again and again and again because because the left won't do that because it it goes against their agenda right right so the rate of violent crime not only goes up as john locke pointed out empirically logically it must go up it has to go up we've disarmed the innocent victims it's now it's now open season on you know on the legally disarmed innocent victims and the the the perpetrators and their freedom strikes since they tend as a general rule to be bigger and stronger than than their than their targets that reminds me we were discussing this before bosh you know in the 19th century when when samuel cult you know invented the the the six shooter the saying back then was god didn't make men equal samuel colt did love it yeah because you know some thug who's a lot bigger and strong physically stronger than than you know his target now the the victim has may have anne gone and can defend himself effectively against the bigger stronger guy if we can effectively keep guns out of people's hands we remove that deterrent and the criminals are free to strike with their bare hands if you know if they want never mind with knives or clubs or hatchets or you know machetes or axes or god knows steel pipe or yo god knows what yeah so the the crime rate will go up the homicide rate will go up it necessarily goes up because there's two there's two conclusions here about banning guns one the criminals will still have guns and two even if they didn't it doesn't matter because they're going to have knives and clubs and so on and so on and they're criminals yeah they'll they'll use their fists they'll do whatever they got to do they're cremates right right and i think we should also point out bosh about mass murders let's say again we could god intervenes i mean you know we're both devout atheists so this is just a thought experiment let's say there is a god god intervenes no civilians have guns that doesn't change the fact that they're bad guys so so they want to or they want to you know murder dozens of of total strangers they all have free guns they all have throughout history you notice the trend in the last five or six years i'm sure you'll remember this as an expert on islam and jihad remember that jihadist in nice in france yeah yeah remember that guy remember that that was one of the most horrific uh attacks i think uh and the media will show it for very very very very very little very little yeah and that dude that dude you know he was a jihadist this was on bastille day you know in july of 2016 there were gazillions of people out and about you know we're we're in nice on the river 88 people 86 86 86 people yeah yeah and and and bosh the dude had guns but you know he he rented a truck and he drove the truck through the crowd you know ran down hundreds knowing he could just take out as much as he could yeah imagine the injured imagine the the limbs i mean i don't want to even yeah i thought right i wouldn't want to dwell on it but that was horrific i remember that he ran down hundreds of people uh 86 were killed god knows how many were crippled or made yeah exactly for the rest of their lives and again i want to repeat the dude had guns but he chose a truck as he turned the truck into wmd exactly weapon of mass destruction and felt that that was more effective to take out as many more than he could with just a gun exactly and i think you know i don't want to give people ideas yeah but you know but the psychopaths these sick murderers they'll figure it out on on their on their own so again go you go back to the school invasions and stuff if we could keep you know guns out of the hands of people like eric harris and dylan klebold or the columbine perps what do they do well they plan out these invasions it takes time to plan it out get the ammunition you know and everything so they'll plan it out well commencement maybe the outside on the lawn sunny day in june there'll be you know hundreds and hundreds of people out there and we get our car or our truck or suv and we run it up on a lawn and we run down hundreds of people killed you know god knows how many that's that's what they'll do yes it is and by the way guns in the hands of honest people will help there because if you can fire at the perp through the windshield or through the side window you're likely to truncate the the atrocity and save you know and save lives so um yeah so without guns we're more susceptible to that form of mass murder as well and by the way over the last five years there have been more and more mass murders using vehicles yes exactly right those are i think they call them carjack or something vehicular jihad i think that that's a term that some governments use it's a common thing now in france in england yeah in new york in new york a few years ago i think there were some people who were murdered yeah there was there was an incident in new york city a few years ago there was one in toronto there was there were the the tucci hardest in london i think it was into uh in 2017 there were two with a knife yeah well they no they first they ran the cars right and they got out of the car and they jumped out with with knives and killed a bunch more and i think and i think one of the people that killed was an unarmed london police officer you know until until in both cases cops who were armed shot shot the bad guys dead but there was there was one in stockholm a few years ago there was one in toronto there was one in in berlin i think there was one in monster germany where you know where several people were killed you know using using vehicles as interesting it was one of the ones in germany i don't remember if there was one in berlin or in in munster where the guy the perp took his own life afterwards with a hand guard he killed his cat so he had a gun and the cops you know went into his apartment later they found an ak-47 um and so this is your thing it's an easier way to do it and notice also sometimes they're they're building these things in front of like restaurants which have outside city they're building these things where cars can't go on the sidewalk that's popping up now and more of these cities yeah because of because of that because of that vehicular vehicular mass murder you know that that's right so so mass murders will continue even if god did intervene and kept guns out of the hands of of civilians mass murders will continue uh the people exist you can't ban evil that's that's quotable boxer i mean but it's true[Music] and i just want to reiterate a point we've already made that uh again guns in the hands of honest people will will protect us from vehicular mass murders um uh we're a lot more a lot more able to defend ourselves by shooting you know through the windshield and the side windows than if if if we don't have guns people don't have guns so i think we've seen a lot of evidence as to how and how and why the the rate of violent crime is going to go up to the extent that we ban guns and you know bosh we should discuss the uk because a lot of gun control people say well look what happened in the uk you know they ban guns 1997 and they don't have you know they don't have a high crime rating and in fact the year i spent in bulgaria um 2016 17 when i was teaching at the american university in bulgaria one of the professors was british and you know and he yeah crime rate in in england is so much lower you know we ban guns and the crime rate is low and everything well you know what you know what you know he said well he was saying i was talking about how in texas you know i was making the point that stephanie bond made before that in in areas where people own guns legally there's fewer of these you know these mass murders um uh because the bad guys know you know that how dangerous it is and the english guy said well still it's much lower than in in england well the truth is it's senseless to compare across countries because there are different cultures different philosophies different religions different moral codes the question we need to rate the questions we need to raise are when you ban guns in this country does the crime rate go up does it go down or does it remain the same exactly right and the data and the fight oh my god yes oh my god yeah the crime rate when they there's some sick person in in 1996 in scotland i think right shot off the school yeah a bunch of little young children too you know it was similar to what happened in sandy hook in the united states in 2011 he shot out of that that guy adam lanza shot up the elementary school and killed a bunch of little kids i i i i might have been kindergarten kids this guy in scotland killed can you can you imagine i mean i can't even imagine it you know let's think i mean however horrific it is and it is horrific and we agree on that to therefore decide okay guns are the problem not evil people but guns are the problem we have to ban them and that's why i wrote this whole thing every so often i just i i reposted i said if your answer to armed madman is to disarm everyone you're a madman i mean i mean that's what you are because you are in empowering the magnet of the world you are empowering them to continue doing what they're doing and get even worse yeah anyway sorry you were saying so that it was a horrific attack don't see any innocent children yeah little kids too a whole bunch of them this guy murdered i think was in scotland 1996. so the british responded by banning guns in 1997 most hand gun i think all handguns and and many rifles and and would you say that they there wasn't they weren't that armed to begin with could we say that that they were exactly so they're they're not a gun culture they were accused of being gun culture but they weren't to begin with no so it's relatively easy to do that right right that's one of the fascinating things about britain is that the culture tends to be anti-gun right they don't even want the cops generally right there's like virtually no political support for honor civilians 2021 do you think that might change in terms of uh their problem with jihadists in the country i mean they still have it it's still growing it's still you know do you think that might change in terms of this idea where wait a minute we're not violent as a culture but we have a culture coming in that is i mean violent as can be they're coming from violent cultures of violent country oh yeah like the rape gangs oh i mean for decades decades yeah thousands of girls thousands of young young girls too right like 13 years old it's a pedophilia rip gang just horrendous i don't know i don't have a lot of hope for the british in this case but people have free will you you never know but the but the question is well what happened to the crime rate uh and of course it it it shot way up and by the way criminals in the uk very often have guns uh all drug dealers you know have guns and you know and have automatic weapons gun crimes gun crime spiked in the uk you know after after the gun ban but above all the the crimes with knives you know do some reading on on this even acid acid attacks have been heard about those muslims acid attacks throwing acid in people's faces oh yeah yeah scarring them for life i mean but meaning meaning it's just bad guys will commit evil through enemies that's right and and knife crimes went way up in the uk limerick you know city in ireland became known as stab city because you know so many stabbings in my eyes especially you know get rivalled drug gangs you know and and uh in the last few years we see this crusade in in england to try they're banning knives now they're bending knives yeah they're burning knives in in britain and the bad guys the bad guys can't get their hands and knives after that afternoon this is sick yeah they're right that's going to be very effective but i saw you know a photograph of prime minister boris johnson could always recognize him his head is very recognizable standing by you know this this large bin you know and and the the the model is what what is it being your knife save a life or save a life bring you a knife something something like that so how's that gonna work maybe you know honest people will you know give up their knives sure but does anybody yeah does anybody think the criminals who use knives are going to are going to voluntarily give up their knives criminals are cheering this on yeah yeah absolutely absolutely take away the guns government please take away the guns take away the knives from honest people so our victims are you know uh are legally disarmed so yeah the rate of violent crime shot up in uh great britain the homicide rate had has shot up and you know it's a it's a it's all very you know it's all very predictable yes it is and that's the point it is predictable so those who are behind this and pushing for it they're the bad guys yeah stephanie stephanie finally asked how do you bare knives well that's a good question you know because i can do what no you can't it's impossible it's just it's just i think it's a virtue thing i think it's it is a signal i i believe it is and all those people show look look look i'm good look i'm putting my knife you know huh i'm on camera right with boris over here come on everything's caught on camera in london i know because the crime rate shot up so high they got closed circuit tv cameras everywhere that's right that's right yeah and they they have closed circuit tv everywhere they got they hired many many more cops you know there's a police presence doesn't matter i mean it may help but the crime rate still went off the homicide rate went up after after the gun ban it has to it's all very predictable you know it's so irrational though it is and here's a good here's a here's some good comments from our friend paul tierney let me uh let me let me go back to this is this is well said paul if anybody doesn't know paul tierney's tech guy he's uh you know he's the tech guy who's responsible for for this for this show he's the producer um paul said firearms are the means of removing the advantage of brute force from physical confrontation it is a mechanism by which the rational are unable to protect themselves from physical harm well said paul is very very philosophical and uh what is this what is this message here if if legalized firearms paul goes on if legalized firearms leads to increased crime does that give people the right to strip me of my right to defend myself that's well said i mean those behind are bad guys i see them as criminals because they if you empower criminals by your policies i see you as as a criminal yeah no no i agree you're aiding and abetting no gossip let me ask you this bosh i haven't you know thought this through myself to see what i what i think is is is the right thing to do because there's still moral problems here let's say i was going to say to the the the gun band crowd look i'll tell you what here's a deal here's the deal remove every restriction to handgun ownership every state every city every town every village in the in the country now legalizes handgun ownership both concealed and open carry let's say you know for a handgun and now we could talk about assault weapons absolutely this so you already think about that uh now now if if we did that and and banned assault weapons it would still be wrong because there are any number of honest people who have an ar-15 and they have right and that name assault weapons come on yeah assault weapon yeah it's a convenient that's an automatic weapon right exactly i mean it's just they they want to they want to make it sound more sinister that's it yeah a good point is an assault weapon you know be careful thank you yeah thank you for the correction yeah automatic weapons uh you know it there's still the the moral problem here you know of you restricting the right of honest people to own you know an ar-15 or you know an automatic automatic weapon he's uh these are honest people they they own it for for whatever reason they want but i think as far as the crime rate goes if we legalized we if we removed every restriction on handguns across the country everywhere you know and legalized both open and concealed carry you know i think that is going to bring the the crime rate down also it absolutely will and the criminals will be we'll be scared like damn it we have this image that we don't have anymore right you know right and and the one place i'm scared is when i go in to teach you know because because there's so many sick people that come into the you know the the no no uh gun zones in the in the schools so if if they did that i would you know i don't i don't own a handgun right now i own a shotgun but i you know i would buy a handgun and carry it you know carry it open on right on right on my hip 100 yeah 100 so i think we've uh you know i think we've let me give one more example sure because one of my favorite countries which i would if the united states you know i think the left i thought i feared this for years but i said the left is pushing us towards race war um and and we've discussed it on the show powerful yeah we'll do it again because it's so it's so timely but um one of the countries that i would be interested to emigrate to in such a case is switzerland except the switzer the swiss is so xenophobic it's very hard evergreen but they're one of the most armed countries in the world you know they have a militia where these guys have they have to keep you know the automatic weapons in in their in their homes so you know so many adult males have an automatic weapon in their homes you you know home invasions are not a major you know exactly switzerland uh so they've their gun culture you know they they you know they love they love their guns the crime rate it makes a interesting comparison and contrast with the brits bosch because they both have very historically you know let's say you know up until the late 1990s both have very low crime rates they're peaceful cultures um swiss slightly lower than the brits but both very low and then in the late 90s around the same time the brits banned guns altogether to satisfy eu requirements the swiss banned carry of handguns which people had been carrying handguns in switzerland for you know forever and well well guess what happened to the crime rate in switzerland after they banned handguns again you know the crime rate went up the bad guys know honest people aren't carrying they're not packing and so it's you know they're less the bad guys are less wary less did they reverse that or no i don't think so i don't think so australia i think that's when also i think they had some kind of uh uh gun ban as well i think a few years ago yeah yeah same thing as in the uk there was some yeah there were there was some atrocity i don't remember the details there's some atrocities some sick person you know shot up but this thing you know the best thing these politicians they got in critical do something right there's an atrocity it's horrific everyone understands that but they're going to now disarm the innocent the honest from from stopping that kind of atrocity right it's just it's criminal it really really is right right and so you know so the the aziz did something very similar to the brits they banned guns i think they banned gun ownership altogether uh and so you know my ethics class last year were discussing you know gun control issues as one of the examples and so i was reading this essay from some gun control advocate who said you know when the when the ozzie's banned guns and she gave a bunch of statistics the crime rate went down blah blah blah blah blah and i said that does it sound right you know where does where did these numbers come from and so i traced the source it came from an essay in the christian science monitor and i'm thinking well that's just a magazine or a newspaper you know what are the we want what are the actual police statistics from australia so guess who actually had the statistics a friend of mine lot yeah john lott the go-to guy on gun ownership and tracked it down sure enough using your police statistics from australia actually you know actual crime records shows unsurprisingly that the crime rate the rate of violent crime and homicide rate shot up on australia after the after the gun dam and john lots on public record is saying this happens everywhere everywhere everywhere you ban guns the the rate of violent crime goes up and i think we've given the reasons why i think i think so too yeah we've explained why i mean it's a it's an important topic i always enjoy it you know talk about these things yeah this is something that has to talk about especially right now i mean we're you know by missed by man this whole gang is trying to really push push a gun ban here even yeah i mean i i think he's trying to one-up obama to try to at least have some edge over him like i'm gonna go more radical than obama i don't know how it how i can but it looks like that's what he might be trying to do right you know if he's constantly at all you know right right and i i saw a quote from some democrat politician recently i came i can't remember who was but saying you know when bill clinton you know uh banned you know automatic weapons was in the 1990s you know these mass these mass murders came down and then when the republican congress repealed that ban it was 2004 the mass murders went up now i you know i don't know if our statistics were right that i i tend to doubt it i want to say let's see what john lott you know is the reason i know the world's a lie i know they're willing to lie oh yeah yeah they like certain steps and sure as hell don't like other ones and john locke comes in and tells her both you know he he tells it all and again that's why he's not he's not on these shows anymore he's not on his debates anymore they they treat him like the truth they avoid the truth at all costs and now they try to avoid john locke at all costs yeah yeah yeah so again you're right they often don't ask often don't ask the right questions you know like like you say before well the homicide rate in in the uk is lower than in the then in the us so i'm not sure that's even true anymore but but that's not the question the question is what's the homicide rate in the uk now relative to what it was before the gun ban exactly right and it's much higher so we got to ask the right question and so the question i would you know propose to this democrat politician is not uh has the has the rate of mass murders gone up with the restoration or you know of the right to own automatic weapons the question is what's happened to the homicide rate generally more broadly what's happening a violent crime more broadly because again even if there are more mass shootings and i don't know that that's true and i tend to doubt it but but even if it's even if it is true again there's the scene in the unseen that's what we see on national tv and properly so but all the times people who own you know an ar-15 or whatever chase you'll chase bad guys out of their house we never hear about it no you don't hear about it you don't hear about it it's just a one-off you know some guy in lincoln nebraska you know on the outskirts of the you know of lincoln bad guys break into his house in the middle 90s he's and he's got you know an automatic weapon points it at them and suggests that they might decamp by the same way that they entered you know how how many lives save us we don't we don't we don't see that you know so so i want to know i want to know the overall crime statistics we don't see that on purpose that's also be a problem it's not just it's just some innocent oversight no these people are withholding that kind of information yes they want to withhold it right right and also i think as a general point we should point out even despite these horrific mass shootings you know and all can be anywhere in the in the country uh if we if if we go outside of the high crime urban areas you know uh in chicago and baltimore and saint louis and detroit you know and and and you know just take a look at the rest of the country the the rate of violent crime in the united states given the enorm enormous population 330 million or so the rate of violent crime in the united states is not high absolutely right and that's something that is really talked about we're talking about it as this monday this massive violent country we're not and again you're exactly the we are a big country with a lot of people all things considered you're right it's not that yeah it's the the drug gangs in the in the big cities are the ones who perpetrate the overwhelming majority of of the murders you know if you're if you know if we're living in you know in kansas or wyoming you know all throughout you know the vastness of flyover country where by the way gazillions of people own guns uh you know gazillions of rednecks own guns in rural america the crime rate is very low and part of the reason is they own guns and the bad guys know they own guns but the deeper reason is you know christianity is prevalent it's widespread it's dominant philosophy in rural america and i'm certainly not going to defend christianity because i know that when the christians have political power they'll burn us at the stake bosch they've done it many times they've done it in the past yes that many times but um one thing christianity that does not do is for men street crime yeah and and so you know again that's the main reason why rural america is is so peaceful you know you know and that includes the you know black areas black americans were still you know a lot of black americans live in rural areas they tend to be very christian the crime rate is is low it's not like in the you know the projects in chicago there's nothing nothing like the projects and you know that's a war zone yeah it's a damn war zone the cops call it shirak that's right shinrok wow yeah c-h-i-r-a-q shiraz it was all right and so again if we go outside those uh uh urban neighborhoods where the drug gangs you know are prevalent that come and perpetrate a godly amount of homicides the rate of violent crime in the united states is not especially high and and rural america we you know what it would obama call them the bitter clingers to their guns and their religion but that's what keeps the crime rate so low one is their religion and two of their guns uh yeah we gotta get we got to see the big picture iron man taught us to see the big picture integrate always always look at things as they are and go from there anyway what a surprise these major cities where the homicide rate is so high handguns are banned that's right i mean that's the thing it's like it's just it's so it's going to happen bad guys going to run wild that's it and those behind those kind of laws they're criminals to me i mean they are they're unleashing criminals on the populists that's not criminal of course it is yeah horses and to maintain it like like to maintain to make sure that they maintain it no matter what happens no matter how many people die it doesn't matter to them it doesn't matter at all they just won't change their their mindsets they're locked in that's it right no man you put it very nicely before but so you can't ban evil that's right you can't legislate evil way good point um and i think you know we should close with uh with a moral point that you know ayn rand taught us and that is the only way to you know to protect uh innocent people or the fundamental way to protect innocent lives from those from bad guys is to ban the initiation of force you know we mean it we need a moral ban on the initiation of force now the gun grabbers will say well how are you going to do that that's pollyanna that's pie in the sky so wait a minute time out keeping guns out of the hands of criminals by banning guns that's pollyanna that's why in the sky is exactly right that's exactly right as as we've seen uh but yeah yeah but it's a big job to to ban to to uh uh impose a moral ban on the initiation of force human beings have been on this planet for you know hundreds of thousands of years and you know we've made a lot of progress yeah the endless warfare and and such we've made a lot of progress in your philosophy and the arts and the sciences and technology we've made a lot of progress but morally you know a lot of the human race are still savages absolutely but there's but there's the challenge you know to to to get people understand this we need to morally ban the initiation of force and until then and even when that happens that might take centuries and that concept is fairly new which is a strange thing is it not it's a fairly new concept of whole idea but also it's objectivism it's only in the last 60 years you know out of hundreds of thousands of years iron man identified this and tied it to you know her principle that the mind is mankind's means of survival reasoning is how we survive in every way and brute force is the way to restrict the full flourishing of the mind and that's why it needs to be banned yeah um but i want to point out even when we do that certainly until we do that and even when we do it we we still need to protect the the right of honest people tone guns because that because like you said before everybody has the inalienable right to their own life and that includes the right to defend their life and of course the the the technology in our day that's most effective to defend lives is is gun ownership no and even if we've generally banned the the initiation of force people have free will this still might be some nut job some sickle you know who's uh who's drawn to violent you know violent criminal activity so but anyway that's the real challenge just that's the way to save innocent lives we need to ban the initiation of force not ban gun ownership on the part of honest people absolutely right well put yeah thank you thank you so uh well wow we've been going for 80 minutes already hello vladimir uh i just got a little uh yeah yeah what's up brother uh so yes this is one of you one of your your your fan club the bosch foster tank club is is uh president i'm glad you know i'm glad to see it uh is any any uh any last things that we should that we should say on on gun ownership or the the anti say to the anti-gun crowd i think this was good i i think it's especially relevant today i mean because again they're coming for the guns again i mean the left is in power again and they're trying to come and again they don't recognize our fundamental right to self defense that's that's the issue also that they don't really want to recognize they think that it's all government and and they'll and they'll fix things and they'll take care of things no we have the moral right to defend ourselves and again all the ultimate the ultimate defense is a gun you want to be an equal footing with the bad guys right you want to be on equal footing right you know what we we have some time we should take a few minutes and and discuss defending ourselves against the government absolutely because and that's part of why the second amendment exists oh yes our moral you know the founders were moral men who understood in the end yes to to defend yourself but also ultimately to defend yourself against us against the government if we got it if we get out of hand right that's right right reason and you know james madison was virtually the sole author of the bill of rights this is what the late 1780s 1790 uh the bill of rights uh it was only 15 years before that the shot heard around the world in lexington and concord but which by the way were right in it it was in april yes you know it's still patriots day you know up there the shot heard around the world was you know the minutemen were you know a bunch of what a bunch of farmers and merchants and store owners and everything they weren't soldiers but they had guns and then they were trained they knew how to use guns and they chased the redcoats but when they came for the for the for the ammunition when they came for the for the you know weapons they chased the red coats you although a seasoned army a british army they chased them all the way back to boston so you know madison certainly certainly remembers that that you know if if people are going to be free and be able to defend themselves against tyranny uh whether it's a foreign occupying power or the indigenous government moving towards dictatorship they need they need to have guns and you know i i've heard friends of mine including objectivists i won't mention any names you say to me well you can't fight the government same here i've heard that as well that's not the point that's not the point it's just false i said it's so common fighting the government to sometimes succeed in fighting the government it's so common there's even a word for it and they said what it's called revolution that's right that's how this country was born exactly right exactly so you're right you're right about that and they tend to overlook that but it's like guys that was the point of the revolution and again the founders what other country has done that enshrined our right to self-defense in the ultimate level where hey you can go against your government if they get out of line you know what other country has done that i mean we should be very very very proud of that of that fact that's the ultimate point of the second amendment i think it's the ultimate one again hunting and all that yes self-defense but ultimately it's it's to tell the government hey don't you know don't get out of line here because i'm and they have gone you know in decades now but the point is it's a check on government the ultimate point of it that's absolutely yeah people fight the government literally every day there's revolutions all over the world sometimes sometimes the good effect like the american revolution you know went from tyranny to a free country sometimes the horrific offense effect like the russian revolution oh no doubt about it well they overthrew the karensky you know government uh established communism but there's revolutions all the time you know in in countries all over you're right so you can fight the government yeah yeah and me and you if we have to just me and you if we have to you know yeah right we do it let's do it intellectually and morally yes first right right but um yeah yeah it's it's you can't fight the government it's true to this extent if you don't have guns you can't fight ex then exactly right and that's why the left wants to rid us of that right that's why they want to wipe out abolish the second limits because then we can't fight them and then we have to abide by everything they say and that's that's what it's over that's what america's over and right and i've argued with friends of mine and family members on this i think i honestly sincerely believe the democratic party is moving towards communism i think bernie sanders you know he's not a communist yet he's a but i think when this they've been trending in that direction for many years another 10 or 20 years and i think there's going to be they're going to be communists uh abolish private property and end freedom of speech have re-education campaigns and their violence has exploded in the last few years it's exploded they're on the streets now you know oh yeah that's right the mob is going off i mean and they're all leftists yeah and by the way we were told the 50 states of this right-wing militia is there it's only the leftists yeah well yeah the the republicans had their moment in the sun bosch their one riot and it yes instigated by antique dressed up as trump supporters blm dresses at transporters and some uh some anti-trump red wingers who roped in the dummy the dumbest of the transporters so yeah they did instigate it that that has not that story has not been that that story has been capped more or less yeah you know you know and you're right that one that one dude's name john earl sullivan yes from utah bro yeah from you all right and earl is spelled with two e's e-a-r-l-e if anybody wants to look at this the washington times which is one of my favorite newspapers oh yeah the washington times covered it general sullivan is antifa blm guy he helped instigate the capital riots and he told people online hey meet us there do this do what you got to do that's the whole thing and then also this cop who was a capital cop that near town solas was bludgeoned and headed by fire signature completely complete lie complete lie he had a heart attack a day later two heart attacks actually or skill yeah yes yes maybe something like that that's the name but the new times lied and they they sucked i mean that's the bottom of the barrel the paper of record please yeah they they reported it and then everyone followed suit right i just like you and you're right i just want to point out you know uh google it the washington times you know the story on general sullivan the antifa blm thug who helped instigate the capital riots yeah he's under indictment for him left his media doesn't report he was invited on cnn after the fact as a guest to talk about the riot as if he wasn't involved with it directly as if he wasn't it was anderson cooper with him and that has been you know like spanish i guess but he was on the air talking about it as if he wasn't involved as if he wasn't instigating it but back to the main point yes and that is there's you're right there's james madison's intent you know is that if the government starts to move towards dictatorship the last bastion of freedom is an armed citizenry able and willing to defend able and willing to defend their rights and we thank him you know yes we thank him for that because he understood yes these were good men moral men who who knew that you know government in the end it is force and it gets out of hand it is dangerous right and every dictator and wannabe dictator one of the first things they do is they ban guns and they absolutely absolutely has all has always gone across history exactly right hitler stalin you know whoever whoever it was a couple of examples here before signing off no i don't remember the author of the book uh but i saw the movie version of it defiance with daniel craig oh yeah yeah very good leave schrieber also yeah leave stream but well done yeah i recommend the the book and the the movie it was about the bielski brothers or these jews in belarus during world war ii they they were smugglers or something they hadn't had military experience they had guns there's a true story they had guns exactly yeah they had guns and they fought the nazis uh they hit they hid in the head the heavy forests they fought the nazis they survived most of them survived by the end of the war they had killed something like you know 200 german troops and saved something like 1200 jews their lives you know then if they didn't have guns of course they they wouldn't have been able to do that and another example from the armenian genocide in 1915 you know the turks of course were muslim you know and they wiped they want wiped out the armenian christian population hitler she cited that also like yeah who who speaks about the american genocide today he said yeah something like that yeah there are scholars of the armenian genocide who do say hitler hitler said that but there was you know then the and the turks took the guns from the armenians uh but a few you know held on you know in the military they had guns and they and they they they hold up in their stronghold they were able to hold off you know the turkish military because you know they had guns they fought off the turkish military long enough for the invading russians you know to relieve them and so a bunch of the armenians who survived not coincidentally had guns they were able to fight off you know fight off the turks so there's any number of these kinds of examples including your black americans in the jim crow south i remember correctly condoleezza rice said she supported the second amendment because you know the clan and those night riders came to her father was a pastor and they came to burn down the church and her father and a number of the parishioners had shotguns and they were able to fight you know the they weren't going to get any help from the redneck government and they were righteous i mean they were righteous and they were armed and that's all you need you know and they were able to fight off the clan and the other other knight riders want to burn down the church and kill a whole bunch of black innocent black uh kids and everything so there's any number of of instances where people who aren't fought the government or in in that case uh the clan and those guys very often the local government officials were members of the clan you know they were fighting off the clan in effect they were fighting off you know the the local government so there's any number of cases the idea that you can't fight the government is true if and only if you don't have guns exactly guns you can yeah exactly right and you're right i've had the argument as well it's like come on man you i mean i told you you should know better i mean i don't get this but anyway yeah so yeah especially since as you point out the country was founded by red exactly right against the most powerful military empire have you heard this one though have you heard this one where well england just let us win have you heard that one i've heard that one i i i've heard that one and i'm like i presented i'm like wait a minute we had a righteous cause we were fighting for freedom they were fighting to maintain tyranny there's no chance i guess that if the brits let the american winds win might they fight for seven or eight years absolutely right but they they did all these bloody battles you know and including i was told that by someone who wasn't born here so you know they don't quite understand uh you know what it is to be born here and raised here i'm just i just want to say that and the american schools don't teach history anymore so i'm sure as well you know high school graduates and college graduates in this country you know very little about the the american revolution the bloody battles you know that that were fought you know and so yeah so by split is it well wow it's 9 33 on the east coast we've been at this for an hour and a half this is a this has been a good discussion oh yeah it's important it's timely it's i mean it's always time i mean where's because the left is always trying to take our second limits always and they want to basically they want to wipe out the uh the whole concept of uh of self-defense the concept of self-defense of the right to it and and they can't do that it'll always be here no matter what yeah absolutely and i think we could summarize you know in signing off the moral is the practical as iran taught us the moral here is is that every individual has a right to his or her life which means the right to defend it uh you know and against whether criminals or dictatorial government and the technology that most facilitates that of course is gun ownership and then the practical point uh you know the practical benefit of course is is what we've we've been discussing that if you if you ban guns then the criminals will have them the bad guys won't uh which is obviously bad for innocent people and even if god intervened and the bad guys didn't have guns it's still it's still horrendous because the the thugs will strike you know the women and the elderly and everything with their with their fists and so on so the crime rate always goes up when you ban guns to the extent that you ban guns and the crime rate is able to you bring it down to the extent that you protect innocent people less crime i mean that's true it's a perfect title you know a perfect title proper concept more guns less crime right right signing off so i strongly recommend people interested in this issue to read john lott's book more guns less crime is readily available from amazon and you could be my essay you know the defending in this in life requires gun ownership in in the hands of honest people it's on my website andrew bernstein net uh there's a lot of evidence supporting the the the claim box both in the empirical data and the logical reasoning based on the empirical data very strongly shows that guns in the hands of honest people protect innocent lives well my friend did any um it was a pleasure this was fun it was and by the way everybody out there in freedom of speech land we got treat next week next wednesday our good friend james valiant who wrote an extraordinary book creating christ how roman emperors invented christianity i i mean it's so original it's of howard rock originality that christianity was you know was created by roman emperors in order to pacify religiously religious fanatics amongst the jewish population and it's not just boldly original he's got a lot of data and a lot of reasoning to support it's absolutely fascinating i just reviewed his book for the objective standard so jim is going to be james valen's going to be our guest on the show next week and that's going to be a fascinating discussion box oh yeah i can't wait 10 and so again wednesdays 8 p.m on facebook live uh eastern time and then also it's uh archived at rumble so if you could please go on rumble and subscribe to our channel um we would really appreciate that and uh thanks everyone for being here thanks andrew as always yeah thank you and yeah and uh walt's pointing out james valiant is great that's true james valley is not just a brilliant guy he's a no he's effusive and he's got a lot of energy he's very nice he's very passionate very passionate yeah and so he's this is going to be a great discussion with uh with james valiant so uh thank you bosh thank you thanks everyone for listening thank you have a good night everybody out there in freedom of speech land and like bosch fosten said you know you know sign up for our rumble uh yeah and and like us we want to go we want to go wide and uh you know and and reach a lot of people with you know with our message defending individual rights so have a good night everybody we'll see you next week